EPISODE 20 - PFF's NFC NORTH & LEAGUE WIDE POSITION RANKINGS

what time is it what time is it time is it what time is it what's up what's up hitman's Haven supporters fans audience members everywhere seems like we've been gone for a little while and we are back to discuss some of the Hot Topics that have been floating around social media and of course we've had our opinions and we've been kind of debating back and forth with some of you all but we want to go over we just finished our defensive top fives throughout the league of course PFF has dropped a couple of different um categories in terms of what they've shared they have the building the perfect team in each of the divisions so we'll hit on that a little bit and then they have the top 10 position units throughout the league defensively at Le the only one it appears that we have showing up is I think our secondary but anyway we we're going to talk about it and kind of see if we agree or or disagree or or where some of the guys that we had aligned throughout the league in our top fives fit with some of these groups that PFF came up with so how you doing man doing good definitely it's been a been a little bit obviously since we we talked with Leroy and got to do a lot of those things but uh back back to it almost time for football again yeah it's uh well we got a few weeks and then of course training camp hits so we can certainly talk the real live action in terms of what's happening but we're going to start with this building the perfect NFC North team and you like I said see let's see if we agree with these choices that they made and if we don't just kind of where some of these areas don't really align with what you may see but what they have at quarterback they have Jordan love the running back unit they chose the Detroit Lions with the receiving core they chose the Chicago Bears and I'm going to remind everybody that in the receiving core what PFF is using is all the receiving weapons so although there's a running back group the running backs the tight ends the wide receivers all of those positions are included in what they chose as their receiving core when they stacked their receiving courts throughout the league then offensive line they have Detroit Lions the defensive line they have the Detroit Lions the linebacker unit they have the Chicago Bears and then the secondary they have the Green Bay Packers so T man what what do you think what's there that you can say you understand you can see what what they got and what's there that seems like need a little more evaluation yeah I mean I think as far as quarterback I mean we we've heard people say that there there wouldn't be many other choices besides Patrick Mahomes and then a couple other coin flips in terms of picking a quarterback League wide than Jordan where he is right now so that one that one seemed like the easiest one and and I mean for for everyone really I think o line I think I definitely understand why it was given to Detroit I think they have the most proven and consistent five at least dating back to to last season you know at the very least they have the single most premier tackle probably of the bunch in Su and then on the other side they have a great tackle or at least a what's thought of as a as a highle tackle anytime you have those two shorted up generally your old Line's going to get a lot of respect and they have they have good veterans in the middle as well so I definitely understand that one I think as far as the linebacker position when I look at the linebacker group groups in the in the north right now none of them stand out as like elite units right like the the 49ers or the Ravens last year when they had roquan and Patrick Queen together so I again get the thought process in terms of none really sticks out as like those two dudes are Elite level linebackers however the Bears do have two proven veterans who produce um obviously they're two very different players in in taine Evans and TJ Edwards but those are two dudes who have been in the league a long time started a long time and and play well so not that they're necessarily Far and Away ahead of any other group in the division but I'd say they're the two most established starters who play at at a consistent high level so I'll give them that as well other than that I definitely think there are some debates I think if you go solely off of 2023 production I would say the running back room that they picked with the Lions made sense I think projecting forward there could there could be some some things to be seen with the the room that Green Bay has assembled having Josh Jacobs only guy in in the division who's led the league in rushing um you know also adding in Marshon Lloyd who you know is a dynamic guy and potentially can add a lot of things that uh you know Aaron Jones did and even just some some own tricks that he has to himself and potentially a refined and leaned up AJ Dylan who could be extremely motivated to to get back to some of his the production he had earlier on in his career whether that in in the short yardage role or even in some new roles that have been floated around we'll see if that actually comes to fruition as far as 2023 production I understand the running back room being the Lions but moving forward I could definitely see there there being some debate there depending on what happens this season yeah you know I think out of the the groups of course that Detroit offensive line is without a doubt I think the shoe in if you want to have one that you say is a is a absolute shoe in however the Detroit defensive line like are they trying to say that one Elite guy is uplifting everybody else like like this is how regular the Detroit defensive line is and because I'm tell you T the way I when when they start doing highlevel groups and they just name them I'm not going to go research I need to see if anything just pops off the Pops to your head paid for me because you know how much we watch football and I'm like I can't even I can't even name besides Hutch I can't name another differen making defensive lineman in Detroit so I have a problem with that like I said it's almost like the two ends of the spectrum for me with Detroit the offensive line is the shoe end the defensive line was a throw end I I don't even know how they came up with that and particular in particular when you look at the one area on our defense that I think you got to say I mean they threw our secondary on there and we don't even have a group group of four who played together in our secondary but they put our secondary on this uh perfect NFC North team our defensive line should be on there I mean we have we have defensive lineman who we have rashan Gary who is absolutely everybody can see that he's he's a difference making Edge and he's right on the edge of of bursting and the same projection they're making on some of these other ones I'm not sure how you come off of that one when the only thing I think that kind of slowed down rashan's progress was that ACL but he still got nine plus sacks even after that I I again I've always looked at acl's T as at least 18 months I I understand guys come back faster but they are not the same guy that that guy that's back out there in 10 months that ain't that's not the guy who was before he got hurt the guy who before he got hurt is the 18mon guy so what we are about to see I think is the real rejuvenated ready to roll I love a producing ran Gary and then you go inside with with Kenny and come on now who I mean what other defensive tackle are you taking out of the FC North and saying I'm definitely going to put that guy ahead of of K of Kenny Clark I mean I I I don't have that guy and then our young guys were balling like we got we got young dudes who are wrecking shop up there in terms of C causing havoc on the inside rotating Slayton is a big athletic guy who although he is kind of quote unquote a starter with the with the old def defense we ran we don't we're not sure what the setup is going to be under this new defense you know is it going to be Kenny with Devonte who's playing the shade and the three technique and then of course outside with rashan and Preston or the rotation with vaness who who are they going to be all I know is that our four guys and the other two guys who are second years they probably going to be able to rotate inside and and outside I mean we those those are pretty good damn you know pass rushing dudes so I just don't see how the the Detroit Lions defensive line got on there and I mean quite frankly our secondary I mean I I I certainly I can appreciate it them putting us on there because of projection because it seems they want to project a lot because they also put know the Chicago Bears receiving court on there they hadn't played a snap together and one of the guys of the rookie hadn't even played a snap in the NFL and they're playing with a rookie uh quarterback but our secondary we have a a guy you know coming off of of an injury who's had kind of two years where people are questioning and everything about what he's about so he's got to come back and impr proove himself of course our two Elite level G in terms of where they rate around the league and X who we just signed over from the Giants and then Jah and then question marks so I'm not sure how you put our secondary on there and shoot this is where the the Bears should have been on there the Bears probably should have been on there with the secondary I mean I don't know how they they seem like they just kind of threw things on there and it it it's I guess it's worthy of debate the only other quarterback that in the in the division obviously that could have been a consideration would have been Golf and he just wasn't on Jordan's level last year if you just go head to-head so I think Jordan Jordan was one of the easy ones but that was just a single position and you know the rest of these Jokers are group so we got to look at look at multiple people but remembering kind of where we were with the um because I I want to make sure we we get some concentrated on the on these defenses because we just finished our top five in all these different Cate different categories so now I'm going to these top 10 positionally and these are throughout the league so this is not just look look at the NFC North now defenses throughout the league and remembering how we did from a top five standpoint within those position groups starting with the top 10 defensive lines throughout the league number one they have the New York Jets number two they have the San Francisco 49ers number three Philadelphia Eagles number four Detroit Lions number five Cleveland Browns number six Dallas Cowboys number seven Indianapolis Colts number eight Pittsburgh Steelers number nine Las Vegas Raiders number 10 the Houston Texans so again very interesting I mean I they have Detroit number four in the whole damn league so I mean what do you see there that stands out so I actually remember the the guy who produced last year who I think is part of the reason they're bumping Detroit up is Al mcneel the defensive tackle he he played really well a lot of the year but again I had to look his name up to remember and that's not to say that you know I remember every guy ever but generally when guys perform we we just know who they are we're not you know just just random fans who know the guys who make it in the Pro Bowl that's who the fans know um but he did play well last year so I'll give him credit for that but I still don't see how Detroit would be at four now same way I was talking about you know having a pair of offensive tackles if you have a pair of elite to high level good Edge rushers I don't see how you're not higher in in the to the top 10 and specifically I'd be referencing the Steelers and Houston Houston just got denil Hunter to go on the opposite side of of Will Anderson now denil Hunter is like 15 sacks plus every single year right and you and you put him on the other side of Will Anderson so that means one one of them is going to be singled up every play that group is going to be higher than 10 just off of that alone and they have an aggressive you know play caller so those guys are going to make an impact I I couldn't exactly tell you right now who all their interior defensive linan are but those two dudes alone are going to make some plays so I would I would have them higher than 10 the Steelers you're probably not going to find a better pair than TJ Watt and Alex heith I mean that's guaranteed probably 33 plus sacks every year that there together um and they just make all kinds of plays and they still have Cam Hayward in the interior I don't I don't care how old he is the dude is a dog and and he gets the job done so I would I would have them both of those groups hire as well uh I think my number one would be San Francisco just because they just have a ridiculous amount of of guys at the top and even their rotational players you just don't get much better than that and I probably have the Eagles sitting right behind them the thing with me for the Jets is is they definitely have obviously they have Quinn and Williams and they got some other highle pieces but as of right now Hassan reick hasn't I don't even think he's Ste foot in the Jets building so I can't necessarily count him as a jet just yet until all of that situation with him being traded there and not communicating not showing up to OTAs I'm not going to give them credit for a guy who hasn't stepped in the building uh you know thus far into the into the off season so you know if if he comes in and they're able to get all that situated they're definitely still a highlevel unit but they also lost man what was that guy's name who rotated him for them at defensive end he finally went and got paid somewhere else undersized defensive end pass rusher that they had for a while um and he would always have some good sacks I can't remember his name but I know he he ended up leaving in free agency so they lost some production there hopefully I guess they would replace it with reddic but uh yeah San Francisco will be my one I would have Philly behind them their group is is ridiculous as well and a lot of young guys and I think just in terms of just total depth with interior pass rushing Edge rushing I think they're not giving the Packers the benefit of the doubt for the the caliber of guys they have especially if those guys continue to ascend the way they very well could yeah yeah I mean it you know it's just when you look at these the order that they have these it just seems to me like they these are these are just out of order like how the hell is Pittsburgh all the way down at 8 I mean what I mean do they they already got the two outside pass rushers that you can't block like you can't so who you know obviously they're they're going to try to slide protection over the TJ and then of course High Smith makes them pay I mean it so I just I think this is just something to where when I look at the list I mean you see the the names like you said you can see the the big names and you know why it's San Fran you know why the Jets you know why Philly I understand what you're saying about McNeil but I mean Detroit no he's not I just I don't know why they they are at four I just I don't Cleveland of course look Cleveland Cleveland all around I mean they they just got a they got some dogs they I mean they got one of the best defenses period and it starts up front so I mean they they got to be in the mix and yeah oh yep Bryce H and he went he went to Philly so yeah he went to Philly so that that definitely puts Philly above above New York because he he's a guy yep if you're looking at what they what they what you know what have you done for me lately now the interesting thing about looking at Dallas on here Dallas just got their ass ran through like a hot knife through butter in the playoffs and you telling me they got top 10 defensive line in the NFL and and all of the NFL and they just going 100% blame all of that that happened in the playoffs on the linebackers I guess okay so again I I think my my two biggest gripes at the bottom are Pittsburgh and the Texans I I think they should be higher I I don't know how they're going to be eight and 10 and and you know have some of the the groups you have ahead of them Dallas Detroit ahead of them I mean the top three ain't they're not gonna they ain't going nowhere I I mean you could probably get you know Pittsburgh up there close obviously Cleveland again like I said they G they're gonna be in the mix I mean they I think they could be top four I mean they're at five so they're not far off Indianapolis is is solid I think they're in the right place they they're they're not they're not any higher than that than seven so so the like I said the ones that I'm I maybe I just need to go back and watch some more film but I don't I don't know how Dallas is the top 10 defensive line I don't know how Detroit is a is a top four def defensive line I don't see that we know what they're doing with Las Vegas because you know with Christian coming in there as well and he you know is is you know one of those pass rushers from the inside so you're adding to something that's probably going to release Max I mean you talking about you thought he was Mad Max before it it's probably going to get real funky in uh Las Vegas for them so like I said for the for the defensive lines with me I think a couple of them I think need to be a little bit higher one of them I don't even think is supposed to be on the list and then well two of them I don't even think it's supposed to be on the list so that that one got interesting the next group top 10 linebacker units now this one I think is is the top two I think you you and I or pretty much agree that they're the top two I probably have them in a different order so number one is the New York Jets number two is San Francisco 49ers three Chicago Bears four New England Patriots five New York Giants six Baltimore Ravens seven Jacksonville Jaguars eight Cleveland Browns nine New Orleans Saints and 10 the Minnesota Vikings wait a minute who are the linebackers for the Minnesota Vikings that would make them a top 10 unit so so they they just cash they just brought that's right I think so yeah so Cashman went there so I think I think he would he would be part of that group I'm trying to think who they had last year that stay Stayed I mean nobody jumps off of the table coming to mind honestly trying to think who who else would they have oh so I mean the the the rookie Ivan Pace played really well but I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily say he's a you know a a top 10 a top 10 guy I would say you know I'm wondering where where are the Bills unless you're just assuming Matt Milano is going to you know playing really poorly coming off of injury he's a top linebacker and Terrell Bernard was a first year starter playing playing pretty well last year I would have expected them to be at the very least in there but but definitely above of someone like min soda I mean I'm trying to think as far as the Jaguars I think it's definitely projecting an improvement from Devin Lloyd Foye Al alakan is is obviously a really high level player that we talked about um but I don't know if we've necessarily seen that type of play from from Devin Lloyd just yet now the one that probably is the most interesting to me right now would be the would be the Giants I I do like Michael mcfaden and obviously okar K came in there and was a really really good player for them last year but I just don't know if that's a fifth best unit in the league um yeah yeah that's type of yeah type of unit so I definitely would have the the ners flipped over the Jets I mean Fred Warner is the best in the league we've talked about that and there's really no dispute about it and even with Dre Greenlaw her you know they signed DeAndre who you know we know what he's capable of at his Peak you know I know if Devon or if Dre will be back this season but simply off of of Fred alone and knowing that it's primarily a two- linebacker League I would have them at number one the Jets solid two CJ Mosley and Quincy Williams are are definitely two of the the best in the game that we we talked about extensively and I think the the Bears I think the Bears are really really high right now in one part because the the Ravens tandem got broken up so that that knocked ran because they don't they don't know who he'll be paired with next season I think it's the plan is probably the draft pick Trenton Simpson but you know that remains to be seen obviously so that that leaves up a single spot and then you had some other guys just leave at other places like most of Cleveland's linebackers outside of J left in free agency like Taki Taki joined uh New England I think and they still have Jawan Bentley galani Tavi just got paid I think a couple days ago so the the linebacker rankings yeah so the linebacker rankings are definitely a little interesting right now and some guys will definitely have to prove themselves in terms of an overall linebacker core and I think the the Chiefs and the bills not being on there at all I think what's his name uh Nick Balton for the Chiefs I think is an extremely underrated guy and even though they lost Willie gay I think tranquil played really well for them last year in rotation and that's why they were okay with letting Willie go played gay because he was in there for Bolton he out played gay yeah so yeah and and like you know T's always been impactful he's just he's just hardly healthy at least th thus far in his career that's kind of what's hurt him more than his production so if if that unit remains healthy I think they're a top 10 unit and I think the bills as long as Matt Milano returns to form are certainly a top 10 units not that the the the PFF list is terrible but it's there's definitely a lot of guessing going on with that that unit and probably a large part of their rankings is guys that aligned with their grading system which we kind of already talked about is not a uh an end all Beall when it comes to understanding what's you know what's impacting the game and what's really happening yeah and quite frankly I think as I've shared you know for for PFF I'm not going to go on a PFF rant but if you're grading a player and a play you know how we did it even as a player when they hand out our grading sheets even the people who did just plus minus or you know outstanding play however they grade it well it starts with the play I mean did you did you get a m Mi on mean Ma on the play Mi on the play so so if you don't even know what the play is how you know if the person got a ma on the play you have no idea they missed the assignment I don't know cuz I don't know what the play was so you can't even start with the the first thing that we're going to grade on the play um well I shouldn't even say that cuz then you got to go line up you don't know where he's supposed to be lined up so we we grade that too we grade how how you line up your your assignment you know so all of these things that you don't even know and I think it's it's even more important at the linebacker position but at the top of this thing like you say those Jo those Jokers ball so well it's it shoot even if they are missing assignments you'll go with what they got they just make plays all all over the field and you know I I'm going to tell you I think Sam Fran is silently at number one even if Dr doesn't come back at all next year because if you take dandre and you put him beside Fred man you take all of that other crap off of DeAndre and you just G to let him be that big old tall athlete running around out there shoot I'll take that I'll take I think I think he's going to probably have that comeback year that he's been looking for because I I think he kind of let the Green Bay thing get in his head when it came to him being frustrated with the injury thing with the defense I mean all the things that we already know about we don't have to rehash but when you go to a system that fits you one fits the type of player you are and you don't have to be the the lead dog you're not the one calling the defense you you actually get to play the robin to a Batman who's already in place I I think like I said I think that they are a solid number one and the Jets when I say a solid number one I'm talking about the jets are in number two but it they overlap you know what I'm saying it's kind of like the the San is number one and then the Jets are like one Bish they like they just right under there they overlap a little bit I don't I mean I'm not sure how the Bears get at three they're they're they're good linebackers I'm I'm not necessarily an Edmund's fan I I see the athleticism but you know when you have a a player who is literally the opposite of what the NFL claims to want in a linebacker who in my opinion outplays Trine like tremendously like it's not even close to watch TJ Edwards out there on the field and then to watch Edmonds I mean it it does it looks like one guy knows exactly what he's doing and the other guy is an athlete who makes play sometimes I'm not sure how they get to be number three in the league and like you said as as far as New England I mean New England is just kind of one of those teams and they probably are in about the right place because of some of the issues that are happening with the other ones below them but you just kind of got solid dudes I mean you got the true old school linebackers across the board in New England that's that's how they want to play I mean they got they got the the 250 pound plus dudes who you know they they bring the wood and and they've they've done well you know they've had guys like T who kind of revived his career because you know I guess he kind of blew out there in um in Detroit I mean they they drafted him and he was supposed to you know come in and and do well but somehow you know fell out of favor and he you know he's done well like you say he got paid a couple of weeks ago I think it was and then the only one like I said on the list that kind of just threw me to for a loop of the linebackers was the Vikings you know I think I like the I think I like Detroit's linebackers better than I do the Vikings linebackers I don't know it'll it'll be interesting lot of projecting like you said lot of projecting as to what it's going to look like um you have anything else with the linebackers no I think I think you hit it definitely in terms of just on paper I like Detroit's as well I mean you have you have Alex who's who's been a starter basically his his entire career and when he's not hurt he's playing well not necessarily the greatest but a guy who's going to make plays and Jack Campbell you know a guy who potentially can do everything this will probably be the year they expect more out of him and then their their rotational guys behind that Barnes and those other guys have all proven to be solid players at the very least so in terms of a total core yeah I definitely like them over right now and uh you know like I said Buffalo and Kansas City would be the group that I would move up for sure uh you know to to start the rankings and then we'll see from there exactly yep no I'm I'm with I'm with you on that I don't I don't know how you could have Matt Milano rated the third best linebacker in the league and that don't have their group on here that that don't even make sense to me because they're only two on the field 90% of the time so you got the third best linebacker and he not he doesn't lead one of the top 10 units in the league th this might be one of them cases where they they kind of trip themselves up I think but we've seen that before we can kind of so the next it is with them is the secondaries this is the last one so now top 10 secondaries in the National Football League number one the Jets number two sancisco 49ers number three the bills number four the Ravens five the Dolphins six the Browns seven the Seahawks eight the Green Bay Packers nine the Kansas City Chiefs and 10 the New Orleans Saints H interesting what what what do you think yeah these are these are this is a very interesting ranking for for a couple of reasons the the first one that makes me go is the bills and while I I like their Corner group rasul Benford and and teron Johnson that's a solid group but we're talking about a unit that lost Jordan puyer and Micah Hy now I both of them safties yeah yeah I mean I know they have Taylor rap and and he's a he's a solid player you know I think he won a Super Bowl when he was in LA having two question marks in terms of can they bring the production that Hyde and puyer brought for a very long time there's no way I have that unit at three so I I think one and two are are correct I think the the Jets have a great repertoire of Corners I think I think they brought Chuck Clark back after he didn't play last season and you know we we saw Tony Adams a guy who who I played with at Illinois earned that starting role last year and really as the season went on he just played better and better so I think I think it makes a lot of sense that they're at one the ners get uh talanoa huanga back travarius Ward you know probably had his best season of his career it makes sense for them to be at two but I think you know the the Ravens they would have to be my three especially over the bills I think the bills would probably be somewhere at like 11 to 14 to be honest just because not not knowing who either of your safeties are it's very hard for me to say you're a top 10 unit and while they have solid Corners none of them are Pro Bowl you know all pro level players at least right now so I would I would have the Ravens higher and then I think the Dolphins probably would would you know move up as well because they Jaylen Ramsey hopefully he's healthy they stole puyer from the bills and then they have one of the best safeties in the league as well in Javon Holland so that's a yeah that's that's a really good unit as well I think they would probably be be taking that was that what would that be the fourth spot other than that though I mean the the other teams it makes sense the the Browns have a really solid unit the Seahawks I think just have a unit that has so much potential right like can Tariq maximize his potential I mean we told you how good Devon Witherspoon is he he could arguably be the best DB in the league if he's healthy and puts it all together so you know I'm I'm gonna I'm going to definitely say that the Seahawks could be one to watch if they can if they can just sh up those two Corner spots with Devin and and Tariq being you know the the caliber of players that they they seem to be able to get to then that's a that's a tough unit to deal with yeah you looking at again I can see where there's some um projection coming in in some of the places but no more than I don't know what they're doing with Buffalo at three I mean look when you look at how they were playing before rasul got there and then after to tell you how much they needed rasul and I would say rasul is certainly bordering on All Pro level play but he also gets beat sometimes in a different manner than what you see a player like s or ceran or you know if Ramsey if like like for instance if if jayen Ramsey gets gets beat he he's guessed cuz he'll do that sometimes you know he's guessed at some like there will there would be times where we just kind of we don't even know what Su was doing when he gets beat he he's literally running with the guy and the guy just he gets open and you're like okay could could he not you know make that cut you know what happened um but uh so yeah he he can't he can't be a factor that you telling me put y'all at three three and then that means you got them ahead of the Ravens who have what two all Pros in their secondary you you got them ahead of the Dolphins who pretty pretty much same thing got two you got them ahead of Cleveland who probably had the best three cornerbacks if you look at the trifecta you all three of them together they might have the best three in the league I don't think either of them them individually is the best their position like they don't have the best outside they don't have the best slot but if you put that the two outsides with the slot together I think that's the best uh three together and um the Seahawks again back to what you said you're talking about shoot man look if if Tariq just plays like he did his rookie year for the rest of his career I mean he have he he he might break the inter interception record um you know if he could just get that back going because right now and we hear him talk about everybody else and and we've heard some of the negative spins they put on T Tariq because people think he got sat down last year or whatever but with all the talk he's still the number one man cover Corner in the entire National Football League it I mean so it don't get any better than that so if you telling me this guy right here if you put him in man which if I was a coach I would do like they used to do with Dion I would say hey Tariq you go over there and you play man and then the rest of us we going to play defense this the defense that's literally almost how defenses were called for Deion Sanders and the reason I know that is because we had a Dion Sanders type guy in Kansas City that we did the same thing with sometime and by the name of Dale Carter we literally did the same thing Dale a come to the Huddle he just just the the you cover number one on your side manto man we going to run the rest of the defense over here and that's the type of player when you put him in man coverage that Tariq is wither spoon my goodness I mean he came in like you and I thought he would and he can only get better from there you know he that dude is he's a monster I did want to talk about Kansas City because they only lost sne and sne was a hell of a player though so you say okay they lose sne they stay in the top 10 yes they actually do because you can remember when we talked about the corners and I mentioned this guy I mentioned Josh as one of my honorable mentions because Josh ended up being another dude very similar Tariq to Tariq if you put him in man you put him in man your quarterback is having a hard is going to have a hard day thankfully Christian gave him a hard day when he was in man on him so we going to take that win for our team but in terms of his ability as a player I think he immediately just slides into you know one of the starting Corner positions on the other side is where they already had Watson and they came in on I mean you're talking about one of the young youngest secondaries you know in the league I think all of those guys who will be starting in the secondary next year except for I think Reed so the strong safety because the free safety will be back the one from last year but I think they drafted that safety from was it Washington State the young gu so they might be playing on you know kind of getting him ready to take over strong safety from what is it Reed and then yeah Justin Reed McDuffy yeah Justin re but and McDuffy is the number one slot Corner in the National Football League so I don't know they might be a little low they might be a little low now that I think about it but I don't have as much of a problem with this list I did say like I said with Green Bay shoot I like seeing us on list but I'm having a hard time understanding how we got on this one when we only have two guys that we can unless they're just saying they're so high you know they're so good are two that we know can do do the thing that they move us up like that I mean I appreciate it and I and I really I really think that these young safeties are going going to ball so that can also be a projection as well you know looking at those safeties because I don't think that the way that that lineup is going to shake out T I don't think people realize what it might look like I think cuz I hear a lot of people calling the positions these guys are going to have I don't I don't think it's going to look like a lot of people think it's G to look in Green Bay secondary so it's goingon to be interesting they they drafted a whole bunch of safeties and Slot guys so we gonna see we gonna see how this thing goes so I mean if anything when you look at these lists what you say no I was just saying when you when you look at these these lists MH are there any that just way off from where you looking at with your guys I mean the defensive line one probably shocked me the most outside of this this Buffalo Bills secondary being at three that that was the single probably most shocking just single grade of them all but the the defensive line one just you know kind of kind of blew me away when you're talking about Elite pairings in in Pittsburgh not even in the top five not even really sniff in the top five at you're talking about about you know I mean call what it is an elite pairing in Houston um at 10 and then you you know you have you have a a a oneman crew at at four in Detroit um you know to to be honest it just it just didn't really make a lot of sense so there was there was definitely some some shuffling that needed to be done in in the defensive line one uh and then that that the the secondary one with Buffalo at three like if this had been going into 20 23 I I guess I would understand it even more than now now obviously going into 2023 they didn't have rasul but their Corner pairings going in the last year with puyer and with Hyde you can justify that being a top five defensive back group considering how they played looking at it right now without those two veterans they're just not that group um and I think a lot of the top secondaries in the league have been shaken up in terms of guys just going everywhere really outside of San Francisco New York and then the Ravens everyone else has has really shuffled their deck like the Bucks have have shuffled their lineup guys moved around Kansas City moved around Philly who had a what was considered a high level unit a couple years ago and got torched last year they've really revamped everything going into to this year the the top secondary groups kind of remain to be seen even Detroit had to had to retool at the corner position um for the most part starting over they they have some guys potentially could be really good obviously they have Brian Branch who was excelling and kind of what I was going to get at is if anyone kind of has an idea of what's going to happen in Green Bay at that that slot Corner position look at what the Lions did with Brian Branch who was a safy by spent almost all of his time in the slot and in his very first NFL game made a massive impact playing in the slot you know it's a unique role and it requires a unique skill set and mentality from from any DB to be able to do what is asked in that spot so you know like you said they drafted a lot of safeties uh this is a new defense can Kean know find a find an expanded role there going into this year there's a lot of options very at the very least for Green Bay with with that spot and we'll we'll see what they're able to do with it yeah that that was I think the area and you HD on it in in terms of where the interesting conversation is going to be as we kind of see these guys lying up in in training camp but I mentioned it when we were talking about the DBS he he wasn't a uh he didn't make the list but Brian Branch I believe from the standpoint of just holistic skills at the slot position I believe he's right behind McDuffy and he's just a different entity that's behind McDuffy McDuffy is just on a different level when it comes to coverage so when he you know it it's kind of unfair to compare them when you're saying okay this guy right here can can really run with anybody anywhere and this guy right here is more of a he's going to be physical he's going to be tough and close but they need to get that ball out of there or it can get ugly the further you know it works his way up the field but when you're talking about a slot playing in the box and playing physical man you I mean that dude is hey we have one of those let me just put it let me just put it that way we D we drafted one of those so it's going to be interesting to see what this thing looks like as I can say as they line up and as we said as it relates to the defense in Green Bay we don't know what halfly saw on film from our guys last year because we all complained about what was going on with the defense last year and the year before because they just did not look like they were set up to succeed in a manner that matched their skills and if halfly sees something that we don't know because again they have things that we don't have then hey could very well be a role there for Nixon in that defense that we aren't familiar with we'll see I still stand on I don't like guys being put in positions to make them look bad you know putting him in a position to cover manto man made him look bad last year and and so that to me is not where his strength lies and I would hope that's not what we're going to attempt to do again with him this year so be before we close it out man what what else what else is it that we might have missed um I mean as as far as the defensive rankings I think I think we talked about it a lot I think just to to go back to the beginning you know and the the controversy with the the Bears wide receiver group uh you know ranking them as the top unit in the division I think what people don't understand and it is part particularly with two different position groups with wide receivers and defensive line people say oh well y'all are talking about wide receiver four and five and six those guys play 20 25 30 snaps a game defensive line same thing guys are playing high volume of snaps if there's 70 snaps in a game your wide receiver four and five are probably playing wide receiver four 25 snaps wide receiver five 15 16 snaps that's normal just ask yourself could you run seven eight 40 50 yard Sprints in a row full speed every time absolutely not well just because they're the fastest dudes in the world doesn't mean that they can do it over and over and over again they they get a break so when you're ask when you're talking about receiving cores and you're talking about pass rushing groups the guys who are the four the five and the six matter that's why they dress cuz half the time not all those guys even play on special teams when you're looking at a core that's what makes a difference think about think about the Chiefs outside of Travis Kelce there wasn't a single wide receiver one out there rasid rice yeah he was at times Dynamic but the guys who made plays in the Super Bowl were Meo Hardman who mind you they traded away and the Jets cut midseason and like he did he wasn't even rostered for the Chiefs until the end of the season and into the playoffs he made the game winning play Justin Watson who if anyone looked at Justin Watson you would take him over probably a single receiver in Green Bay or or in in uh Chicago so that stuff matters it it's depth it's how do those guys impact the game how can they fill a specific role whether it's are they comfortable playing in the slot can they can at X and block in the Run game all of those things matter I mean obviously not we're talking about the P just the pass game we Wen talking about what a receiving core is and and what a conversely on defense what a pass rush unit is so you know that'll go over a lot of people's head because they think it's Madden and every play I throw I throw the ball to my best receiver but that's just not how the game actually works and that's why the the best teams are the ones who can throw the ball to whoever and move the ball down the field that's that's the name of the game that's it I mean and and death matters I mean it it literally is the difference between the top college football teams and everybody else like people wonder why teams look like they're kind of hanging in there for a little while they're like man they hanging in there with Alabama then next thing you know that old bear falls on them and they realize they got first Frontline players playing every snap Alabama has literally been rotating three deep on y'all the whole game so they still are fresh and balling and there is nobody in the NFL besides Max Crosby who appeared to play every damn snap like almost everybody has had somebody give them a blow where where they actually can come back in and be fresh at the moment where they're needed most and of course then there are also just some natural rotations in play because you have some units that are set up to to play together strategically but that's still understanding that you need to be at your best for as long as you can for the full 60 minutes which in reality ends up being about three hours and something from when you started that game until when it when it ends and in order to do that at your best having quality depth Beyond you keep on hollering about our top three guys which one of which in terms of that receiving core hasn't taken one NFL snap not a single one so to project that person into a position that moves them ahead of of multiple established groups that have already proven that they can do it in the NFL and do it in a manner that's better than the collective of people that have played in Chicago in the history of the organization they literally have never done what Green Bay's young first and second year receivers did last year Chicago Bear so yeah that that one I think is kind of one of those things where it's great conversation but they gonna have to show that on the field before they can get that title that you can't can't just pop somebody in in a position and tell us that that's that they're the best that that doesn't that doesn't jive there not for me all right so we're going to go ahead and close it out for this episode of hitman's Haven and again we thank you all for joining us remember to like subscribe share we're on YouTube as well as Apple podcast and Spotify we certainly appreciate appreciate you all we're looking forward to a great season coming up especially for our Green Bay Packers and until next time as always go pack go [Music] [Music] down