Inside San Quentin Continues | Politickin' with Gavin Newsom, Marshawn Lynch, Doug Hendrickson

[Music] man what's handing man you got Maran Beast mod Lynch Doug Hendrickson and Gavin Newsome and you're listening to politic to be to [Music] be so Doug Doug marshan what was that I mean it's been about a week or so um what was the experience like going into San quen Doug I think it was the first time you've been inside sanquin right uh it was eye openening and it was uh it was enlightening because I I TR truthfully when I went there I expected to you know much much different perspective than I thought I mean when I got there seeing these these inmates and prisoners who literally um the the the the programs that San Quinton had and their mindset that you know incarcerated yeah incarcerated if or if they don't get out or they get out to have the programs in place to have these guys lives change in terms of uh their their mindset was was was so enlightening um I did not expect to meet the the 60 70 80 prisoners that I did that um had the mindset they'd have and uh it it it blew me away I bet I mean one of the things imagine if you've never been there and I remember the first time I went to squin what really surprised me is that you can walk into the yard and there are hundreds and hundreds of prisoners and folks can walk right up to you uh you can talk I mean we we were we were talking to lifer uh we were talking to folks that may never see the light of day and they're all out there in the yard people seem to be getting along they're willing I mean they're willing the guards are willing to allow you to walk around I mean was that was that something you had anticipated you thought it would be a little bit more organized I I thought you'd see honestly I thought you'd see the Hispanics in one side the blacks I thought you'd see the segregation in terms of the prisoners like you see in the movies but to see these guys walk up and and how appreciative they were that we were there how apprecia they were that the the the the the the prison s Quinton with the warden had the programs that they have uh and all the things that they're allowed to do to walk freely and to take part in you know math programs and the podcast room that they have and and the different things are doing was was completely eye opening to me in a great way marshan you ever met a warden like that nah that wasn't the kind of warden you expected right no but but but the thing the the the biggest thing that stuck out uh to me about him was um you know the uh the gentleman that we was talking to uh uh that was from Oakland and he like yeah man I know this like man you know we've been doing time together like you feel me I remember he used to come run up in my cell and Hell [ __ ] you know we bumping it out and it's down the third and then to see like you know them two just sitting down being able to you know I mean reminisce on what it was like you know I mean back in the days considering you know how far they have came on on on on um um you know for both of them and you know their relationship and being able to just see them have a conversation it was more so like you know I mean that was more so like you running into one of your old school partners that you used to fight all the time when y'all was younger and you know I mean like boy you remember I used to chase your ass down like hell yeah you remember how I was hiding All That Dope From you like you know I had it but you couldn't find my [ __ ] boy I had my [ __ ] in a good but it was just like uh for me to see that the warden had a a mindset like damn I really been doing time with you and as much time as you've been doing I've been doing it as well so you know when I look at that situation and you know I mean you know you look at it from an institutionalized situation it's like these wardens these cosos you I mean they going into prison and they doing this time too now under the circumstances and the the the situation like yeah you going in here to to to to to get a check to be able to you know I mean take care of your family and [ __ ] but the way that he was just making it you know I mean in a situation to we like you know we we we being integrative here like you know I mean I go and talk to my guys like hey you know what can we do you I mean in order to help you know I mean make this a uh you know I mean as as as comfortable as it is and I'm not sure if y'all was around while we were having the conversation but he was saying he gave a you know I mean a scenario like you know you get a a a 20 year old and you I mean have a run in with the law and then you know from there get arrested go to the county and then you I mean from from that officer that he come into contact with is not a good interaction then the da not a good interaction then you go the court and now you talking to the [ __ ] judge and the judge talking down at you not a good situation and then you I mean you do your county time you interacting with the guards and there not a good situation and then you I mean they come and they drop you off to the pen and the [ __ ] was like I had to you know tell my guards and [ __ ] like hey you know I mean when when these individuals step off the [ __ ] the bus like these still humans considering you know they they [ __ ] up and they did what they did but at the end time end of the day you about to be here with this individual for a long time so you go ahead and establish a relationship with this individual so while you doing it you that's that's that take less off your plate to to the point where you Ain here you ain't got to look over your back I know you hear so many times about you know in prison uh the guards getting bum rushed by inmates this that and the third but you know I mean his mindset was to you I mean well we going to be here ain't nothing we could do about it I mean regardless to whatever you done to get in here but basically [ __ ] we to be roomates we F to be living here so we might as well find a common ground to where we could get an understanding to yeah I mean for you that I can feel safe and for you for you can feel safe and I'm like you know what man when you think about that process like yeah why would I get off this bus going into the pen thinking like oh it's cool like no hell no I'm pissed off I'm mad as [ __ ] along my journey is being [ __ ] up this that the third and I mean you know not to I mean look at it from a a position to where you know whether you are incarcerated like you've done what you've done and now it come time to you know serve your time and do what you got to do like you know I mean you got to make the most of it and then when I talk to individuals my family that is in there and I ask these individuals like hey man how you doing and when I talk to them and they coming from a standpoint of like I'm in a good space and it it [ __ ] me up in my head I'm like damn bro you not coming outside you not like you're not F to come home but for you to be you I mean to have a mind set like you know one day at a time and I'm in a good space you know I mean I got a program a regiment you I mean I stick to that and you know I got to serve my time it's like [ __ ] but then I can see where that situ situation would come from after having a conversation with a warden that maybe you know I mean operate the way that he do and what's so special about this War I love what I mean I think that distinction that you just made and I loved hearing it as you did from the warden said we're both we're all we're both doing time together I mean this idea that that they they share that experience and to have the the the warden top down to have a lot of guards not all of them I mean we're doing a lot of reforms and not everybody's on board but a lot of uh of of the guards are on board because they recognize that they want to create a safer environment they want an environment where people are more respected and they don't have to your point if they turn their back they're not worried uh about what's going on behind their back every single minute of every single day but I think what was special about this Warden is he has his own lived experience uh with his own family and the fact that he had family members doing time and grew up in that environment uh and with a deeper perspective of understanding so we're hell we're we're lucky as hell to have this guy at San quen leading the way in this transformation uh of one of the most iconic prisons in the world what we call the California model and uh and so what you guys saw on the yard is what we want to see a lot more of as we increase scale 10x this the programming there we physically redesign uh that facility just as we did with death row and I'm curious for you guys I mean what what I don't know if you've been on death row row before uh we call the East block at San Quenton what was that experience like to physically walk in to death row well before I get to that Gavin I mean just looking at the the non- lifers and looking at the the the cells that those guys had that might get out in 10 15 5 10 15 20 years whatever and if to to understand that when you put your hands to the side you can touch the walls when you put your hands above you can such a ceiling uh and if you're 6'2 6' whatever it may be and you have a cellmate you can't turn around without going back to back to get around the cell to be able to live in those conditions and think you might get out in 5 10 years without the programs that San Quenton has you have no hope and I can see that if these guys get out in other prisons that don't have the programs and the and the hope that they're giving them how do you get out and expect to join the real world and function and be a member of society uh as a as a father as a husband uh as a whatever it may be go for it that's mind- blown so I mean Kudos the S Quinton because these inmates that have a chance to get out even the ones that don't they their mindset is the right way which is pretty cool to see uh to walk through death row was Eerie it was uh my my hair raising on my arms it was really really weird to see that part of it uh to walk through and I can see both sides I can see as a as a parent if your son or daughter gets killed and and they're there you could see hey you know what I want him to stay there or I want him to get killed I don't know what I would do if this was my my son or daughter I don't know I can't tell you unequivocally but to walk through there it was eerie and it was weird and it was it was you know it it was tough to see no question about it yeah marshan what was it like for you I mean you you walked in I don't know how long you stuck around I mean what was that like for me man that ain't you I mean that ain't something that you feel me I don't that a't something I I would say like I glorify so you I mean you I mean I think what I maybe steep in maybe three four five steps and then you know I got the [ __ ] up out of there but just the mentality of just you I mean understanding that you got [ __ ] locked in that box in that c that's that's some you I mean that's some some some deep [ __ ] now I understand you feel me you do the that situation you do the crime you do the time type [ __ ] so for me man just like even just thinking about it is like I don't even want to go and put myself in a position to where I even go get a a a visual or some [ __ ] like that because you I mean at the end of the day my model is you feel me though I'm trying to last not come in last and just going even just for me just even going in there and getting a a a you I mean a glimpse of it like n [ __ ] I don't want that for real for real so I'm man I imagine it was like that too when we were at the gas chamber and then we went separately to the G the the the death chamber where they do the injections yeah hell yeah like man that's some [ __ ] like you know what I mean like like I don't even want to see like even to the point where you know we was talking about it uh you know when [ __ ] came out like you know that's some brutal [ __ ] like you know you put a [ __ ] in there to to to to you I mean that that walk over there you know knowing that this going to be your last walk like you know I mean just the the the mindset of how that [ __ ] go but understanding like like damn there's some there's some real [ __ ] up [ __ ] and I know I was saying to you ear like there some barbaric [ __ ] like who the [ __ ] think of [ __ ] like this in order to just you know I mean take [ __ ] lives and just just like another Tuesday another Tuesday could be Monday through Friday I mean dozens of people uh right now are eligible uh to be executed they've exhausted all their appeals and I think for me you I I really wanted you guys to see that particularly Doug I think you came back with me and were the injection chair that place since the last time we did in execution was 2006 they literally have not changed anything in that room they just moved some of the chairs but every single thing is the same including the phone on the wall with a red light above it uh with the governor says the governor uh doesn't say which Governor says the governor waiting for that phone call to do a reprieve to stop the execution or allow the green light for the execution to go I've been in there a couple times and you talk about Doug hair on your arms I that's just that sits with you in a different way that you have the ability it's like some Gladiator you know putting up the thumb up or down life and death and so I appreciate Maran your sentiment about that this notion that we can kill broken people that we can do it in a premeditated way that somehow um we're we're saying it's wrong to kill people but in the name of that uh we execute someone that's just hard for me to square and as Governor uh that responsibility Falls you know straight on my damn lap well and the sad thing Gavin look I mean I you know you and I weren't raised the same way Maran was a lot of people were but to see some of these guys in there and to make a wrong turn in life uh you know and end up I mean it's it's not it's not fair it's it's uh it's really scary in a lot of ways and was eye opening I think I was talking to 24y Old prisoner in there who talked about when he was uh I think his his mom was was a prostitute his dad didn't wasn't there seven eight nine years old had no food didn't know what to do I think he had his first uh you know stole some bread as a kid and he kind of evolved from there but this kid then no chance in life he had no chance and he got in and and luckily he's got a chance to get out uh in 10 15 years but you know without the program s Quinton has without the hope he's going to have going forward uh I mean this kid had no chance in life and it's really sad but most people in in the world don't don't look at this and say oh well he shouldn't have been in there okay well put yourself in his shoes what do you going to do really I mean I mean that's the hard part all powerful components of what we ultimately want to bring to light in this podcast well G I applaud you for uh for doing what you've do done with s Quinton and all the prisons across California because it's making a difference and and to your point you know when they do get out they're going to be our neighbors our community members and all that and so what you've done is great so I appreciate what you've done and taking us in there how about one of those community members is is my old teammate uh in Twin Cities little league in larksburg California uh and a kid that literally my age you met him Doug we marshan you guys all met him Angelo mecky um who was our third basan shortstop second baseman uh had everything going for him in life and just started hanging out with the wrong people I mean you talk about just this C how any can for the grace of God go any of us one decision hanging out with the wrong people couple bad decisions after that and here he is third striker priser of your past third damn striker but it was a hell of a thing to walk into that yard and meet a former Little League teammate who says hey Gavin how's your sister doing you're like what the hell are you talking about and uh find a guy played for uh Roundtable Pizza that was the name of the team uh my 11th 12th uh year old uh uh Little League team so it's uh it's life and uh and I think people really enjoy this podcast [Music] Warden where are I've been in here I've had the privilege of being here at s quent news on a number of occasions and and to see the evolution over the course of the last decade here and the multimedia and all the incredible work that they continued to do uh tell us a little bit about this space maybe a little bit of history and tell us a little bit about your journey you're you're you're you're the newly appointed tagur it Warden of San Quenton the iconic San quent built in 1852 uh the oldest oldest state prison in the state of California I would say it's the luckiest I'm the luckiest person alive right now and as far as my job I'm leading the the California model here at San Quinton State Prison uh we're in our media room which produces a a podcast it has a a filming Studio it has a newspaper um the opportunity that the governor has given me is uh is pretty cool my journey is a little different uh my father was incarcerated and out of jail uh so I grew up kind of having to make some tough choices yeah so then me and you we got kind of like you know what I mean cuz that's that's how my pops were you feel me so I had to make a decision man you know uh do I follow that Trend or do I do I change well how long was your dad in for uh so I didn't see him a lot after he got incarcerated he now he now passed but he was a d number which tells you was probably about 30 years ago okay uh he did some time in Chino and then he was in out of jail so he really wasn't relevant my life so I wanted to uh to distance myself from him so I went into law enforcement because everybody assumed I was going to go that path um and I started over 22 years ago I started over 22 years ago uh when the three strikes law was in effect um no one told us how to do it we just went in there and they just told us how it was so to get the opportunity to actually give back to the community and get people ready to participate and uh in our communities and give back it's it's an amazing that's hell that's that's strange that you even you feel me don't look at it like that cuz just when you hear like the war type [ __ ] that's like hell no like oh my you're almost like the principal at school and [ __ ] like that so it's yeah and then to hear I'm saying like you know giving back to the community like for whatever that [ __ ] just not for me it's not translating in my head to even think about it in that way so when you say that cuz you just threw out some [ __ ] that's big when you say we in the the media room like y'all got a podcast y'all got uh first of all these goddamn cameras that I've been he got walk around with that's some you feel what I'm saying that's some stateoftheart like equipment type [ __ ] so it sounds like you I mean we was talking a little ear like the system and the mode that has been kind of um for the last I don't know how many goddamn years but you know when you came up and like yeah I'm the warden we like damn you like [ __ ] you don't look a day you feel me over 21 like you say you know what you trying to a thing trying to break the M now not just with your appearance but your mindset and what you bringing into the institution here like you know it's been hard just you feel me just even coming in here because it's like why the [ __ ] would you be going into a prison but then it's like you know what I mean the history of my you know coming up here to visit my pops when I was hella younger then you feel me all of my people that just been through this system and you know I mean we have a whole different outlook on what prison is and I mean when I looked up uh did a little research and it's like it's a rehabilitation spot but it's like whenever somebody come home after doing their time you feel me though they seem to be in a worse off place than they was when they went in and they went in probably on some you know I'm young I'm dumb I don't know this just how what I got to do in order to feed my family or I gotta protect myself and or whatever you I mean it come down to it but then when they get out they in a way [ __ ] up more mind set you know I mean the world has passed them and I understand is the the you know I mean the the the punishment what it that that the [ __ ] sentence no throw me the oop we just was talking to uh my boy about uh consequences yeah like yeah you got take care of your that's what we're trying to change exactly what you're saying the opposition would say this is a public safety but it's absolutely Public Safety because we we're making citizens here right people that we put back in our community are have trades degrees to give back to our community so it is Public Safety and that's what some people are struggling to realize and I think one of the things is just a good reminder to everybody 95% of folks in our system end up back home and you want them broken more pissed off uh or do you want them to be more resourceful more fully and you want them to be your neighbors you got to think in those terms uh who was I talking to recently I was talking to an old Mexican mafia guy and he says uh this guy was running the yard and he had a he had a date he goes hey man I got a date can I stop politicking and that leadership in the Mexican Mafia basically allowed that and said yeah you've always done your work for us don't mess with them now with the gangs there's power so not you're not going to always get that type of uh green light or okay um so yeah there's there's prison politics that we could write a book about so you know what that sound like to me cuz I asked this [ __ ] hey why you on run for president and then it was a order just like what you just demonstrated right now it's a order of how you feel me how they Rock and I'm like oh [ __ ] so when you politic and you really dealing with some real politics and I'm like [ __ ] go run for president like for we could stop the [Music] podcast of all the things that I've done as Governor the one thing I wasn't prepared for was this space I mean when you're campaigning out there no one asked me what my my relationship or with with prison reform was they talked about Criminal Justice Reform more broadly we didn't I didn't understand the nature of debriefing that never came up there was no white paper that I had on what what a gang debrief was I didn't fully appreciate the parole process and didn't understand uh all of these nuances but every single week I have life or death decisions literally no [ __ ] when you looking at that what what is it in your mind like okay if I see these type of it's exactly what we just heard right there is as you want you can kind of talk away I want to know the journey I want to know that it's sincere it's not [ __ ] [ __ ] I want to know that you didn't just go into some program just to quote unquote get a check so you're just stacking those checks to come to me I want to know that you feel remorse that you feel for the victims that you you have a relationship to the victims because at the end of the day we I think what what happens when we have these conversations people see it as it's it's right or wrong black or white you spend time with the folks that are incarcerated it means somehow you're taken away from the families and the victims and I and that important to me that that has to be both end you got to come out feeling deeply responsible accountable remorseful and you've got to come back a stronger person and if you if you have that if you have empathy you have care you have some goddamn compassion and you could demonstrate that then that's determinative in terms of the people that we let go otherwise if I feel just it it's instinctual sometimes and and it's just immediately re so how many times do you do that when you just look at the like Marsh lch oh nope throw that back in there you know what that's what every Governor used to [ __ ] like that I mean when I go fill out job applications they I'm not Name by the way you see that you feel me that's a real thing I know it that's what I'm saying but let me let me tell let me tell you your [ __ ] the it's only been since Governor Brown got an office the previous Governors Democrats not just Republicans they rejected every single parole board recommendation they didn't even look at it and then they would look at the name or Worse they'd look at a picture and they go they look and see if someone's got tatted up like no he's gone I'm no [ __ ] and and then race was a determin of damn factor for sure on getting in here and getting out of here so I don't see pictures I don't care about the name I quite literally look at the journey people are on and I look we have a risk assessment the psychologist I look at the programming when did they debrief from the Mexican Mafia it's it's been 10 years are they clean and sober cuz a most folks a lot of them and they [ __ ] things up because they start using again even though they're parole eligible they've done everything right and they were dumb enough to go back and I figure if they're dumb enough to do that here they're going to dumb enough to end up back on the goddamn streets and back in prison I applaud you because I know I know I know how real this is for you like that free the gang man free the no but I know we're going to by the way in a minute we're going to talk about the goddamn death penalty how about that on your conscience man look and how about this kind of sh like just let a [ __ ] sit down and do their time it's like uh what is that you was talking about in the movies and [ __ ] like but the movies I be seeing they would [ __ ] people up like with the uh the the gas Chambers and all those kind of shits like who go and think about creating some [ __ ] like that to [ __ ] people that's some sick [ __ ] well I think it's pretty sick that we tell people it's wrong to kill and so the name uh or in somehow in the spirit of saying it's wrong to kill we kill people premeditated oh man and we kill broken people man one thing everybody has in common they come in here they're broken they're broken some way shape or form and then the idea that we're killing broken people as a society systemically and that was something by way brok people killing broke people broken people killing broken people so the question is exactly right yeah who's broken if I'm sitting there I think there's dozen there's a couple dozen guys that were on S here in quen eligible for me to put them to death that they had gone through all their all their appeals every s and no I could have overseen I I could have overseen dozens of things and that have been on my watch man like you decide you'll go and when we go in the injection room you'll see the damn phone you'll see the phone right there and that's the governor's phone for the last phone call and if there's no call I mean that's on your that's on your conscience man so if you don't call then they out of there the the governor has the ability at those last minutes you repreve and come I mean it's it's that's their life or death that's why I did a moratorium when I got here I said I can't do it I just I'm not that guy can't do it you can't stomach I talked to Schwarz and was the last guy that to condemn something 2006 and he did he said this very publicly and it's not a knock on honoral at all he said it he it was last time that was used right waren was 2006 2000 yeah no no who was it it was Ray Allen and Ray was a legendary guy for a lot of different reasons and I asked I said I asked Arnold because I had just done the moratorium and I said you know I said how was how was just as a human level and and again I only share this because he's repeated it publicly and he said he said to me no you know he said well I'll give you the accent he said you know you know you know you know gav you know I slept like a baby he said he slept like a baby I'm like whoa and honestly that like that hit me in intense way he slept like a bit you know what and somewh like I respect that he did and he was serious about it I couldn't I'm not that guy I'm not wired like that I couldn't do that and so that that was a heavy weight that also led to this California model it's one thing to do a moratorium but you we got to do a moratorium on stupidity doubling down on stupid and the re of them rates that are off the damn charts people are less safe uh as a consequence of our stupidity uh and we needed to start doing program but at scale not onesie two not little small ball stuff and the great thing about s Quin and Warden was saying this is It's So proximate and proximity is a powerful word just generally and that's why I keep coming back to the prisons because I want to be proximate to what's happening inside so I make better decisions on the outside but the proximity here and what I'm relating to is so many people that want to volunteer it's one of the reasons this is a service Rich environment and why I wanted to change that environment at scale by investing in this California model at a whole another level where success leaves Clues if we can prove it here we can then lay this thing out lay the tracks for reforming the rest of the system this is the biggest system in the United States of America with the largest ESO in the Western Hemisphere we have more prisoners in our system than any other state in America if we can change it here warden's power if you can change it here the Paradigm that you shift in this country with 5% of the world's population but 25% of the people that are incarcerated how much does it cost to to house and take care uh uh what's the latest number we were at 106,000 two years ago what are we up to this year I think it's about 120 yeah 120,000 bucks damn now I know why California got the [ __ ] fifth largest economy in the world Craig youting put me in the mix you are you're going to be our budget director and you want to know why you want to know why but this you you you were talking out in the yard Maran now you want to have a real conversation you want to you want to know why you want to know what the the contracts are to make phone calls here you want to know what the racket is there you want to know what the procurement racket is in the prison Industries and how people are making a Fortune of incarcerating people you want to know what's going on with private prisons in this country that are incentivizing more folks being locked up for longer period of time and a and the lobbyists that are being hired and the lives that are being destroy so people can make money that's godamn right that is a huge part of this whole thing a huge part of it don't think for a second you're wrong about that everything you said we in the yard was spot on people are selling you fear and anxiety and that's what this is about it's fear and anxiety it's fear based and it's fueled by anger and it's understandable because people want to be safe and they want they and I get that and victims need to be respected and we need to connect them I think we need to connect to that much more but this has become Racket and breaking up this racket is hard and the opposition is real and it's not about politics soat be careful bro cuz when you get to talking like that Stern and all that type of [ __ ] like there my boy them [ __ ] they be they be creeping and [ __ ] man hey look well you just I just rolled over here with you I like I said I like I like living I like waking up brushing my teeth after long nights of getting some osis tearing [ __ ] down but the truth is I like living and you know what you a hot boy you was talking about the gangs and [ __ ] I tell him they got the red and the uh blue red and R and blue with the uh politics [ __ ] so he he he familiar with gang culture you know what I mean just how you broke it down R in the blue I hope you all heard what he just said you know if anybody know you you can probably you can probably give me some insight so when he turn his mic off and all of that we get rid of him then I need to holl at you talk about it man yeah so you can let me know he every time we talk about gang stuff he said don't talk to me about gang stuff how about the gang you're in out there in politics yeah no are you serious he's like nothing say right it is look here Brown zero let's do it they started them gangs they separated and [ __ ] and then they started conquering we was like which one is you you the blue or the red one you was over here and was like all right we going to take all this they going to take all this and then now hold on well we want this with nah so then y'all politics spilled over into US was like well [ __ ] we GNA go get them [ __ ] and bring them over here and have them go to work and this [ __ ] then you had to like no we want to FR like hell no we don't want to FR like well we going to put up what's the prison up there in New York where they started so you was talking incs with the the how to get the guif the uh the what you call them inmates not inm incarcerated incarcerated so how you get to get the guala for them was like well [ __ ] if we go out and we catch all of them then we just going to get it up here on the front end for bringing them then we going to get it on the back end because we GNA send them back down so y'all the whole gang you feel me though the damn y That's crazy when you say it like that cuz then you start looking at individuals that look like me and then it's like we product [ __ ] where these sick [ __ ] that be thinking like this to be doing that type of [ __ ] well it's U you you should be angrier than you're angry man I know competition no man I need to get one of them bro crazy with it now you're getting in the deeper conversations about I mean it's it's there's nothing more true about the system than it is better to be rich and guilty than than poor and innocent is a damn fact rich and guilty you're better off than poor and innocent and that's a [ __ ] up system they show and that is perpetuated and it has been for decades and decades not everywhere I'm not naive I'm not casting aspersions on people trapped in this damn system but is a system that has evolved over time you had you had I mean we we have vestiges of slavery here in in the prison system we had convict leasing after 1865 convict leasing where they were literally taking the incarcerated and and folks in the private sector were basically getting them for you know 10 cents an hour and literally the prisons were making money off the backs of folks that otherwise were previously enslaved I there's serious stuff segregation and lynching everything that's gone on for decades and decades been institutionalized and I hate when these [ __ ] these politicians that aren't approximate to anything they haven't been in in systems like this never been in communities where you up start talking about all this they don't know what they're talking about I'm saying if they Des serve the community right this is the thing I learn about the politician like if they D to serve the community and [ __ ] I really just be seeing them just go Stack Up coins and then they just mobbing like you feel me I know we don't you know I mean we don't we don't talk about dog we that's what we going we just going to call him dog or folks but you I mean I heard him say like if y'all won [ __ ] change change want me to pay tax change the laws but you're not going to do that because it's going to affect you feel me though something bigger than what y'all are willing to talk about so y'all just going to let me say this and be like oh he ain't he ain't talking about [ __ ] but ain't nobody going to go and really look into these tax laws that he talking about and start changing [ __ ] because I mean at the end of the day that comment you just you know I let you say a lot of [ __ ] but the one I really [ __ ] with that one that one you tell you're rich and guilty yeah Rich and Rich and guilty than poor and innocent so I mean it's and often times it's race more than culpability and I I didn't get that was I didn't even get into race there I I was talking about wealth but then we get into race uh that becomes more of a factor than culpability in terms of sentencing and it's I don't think this we know this this is not this is it's like that that the guy we just met he said this is just math it's it's just fact it's a fact yeah and you right now this is why I'm this this [ __ ] is just came right on time man I'm glad to yeah so look because the thing is like I was telling you like that was an opportunity and it didn't come from me it came from somebody who been in here for 27 years and he gave you the same ISM that I gave you when we was hinged so you see that from 27 years ago when he was outside it's the same [ __ ] probably what he looking at it like it's turned up a little more and what he was talking about the fact of I got a little bit of that was if I was outside I could run down to the rec center where I didn't need no sign up or nothing I was a kid hey come in here you know these the play wo whoop and you do something wrong you get your ass whooped there and then I'm going to call your house or take you home to your mama and then you going to get another ass whooping there that sense of community that sense of community is lost now that is no longer there that's I hear you that's that's that's a that's a problem but it just sound like to the point when I think about it in y'all Community you feel me y'all don't worry about no type of [ __ ] like that cuz everything else no I mean to be we don't I mean to be honest with you we've been blessed and and it's it's not right I'm not saying like it's a good or a bad thing I'm just saying as far as our like problems right this is a huge issue going home not knowing if tonight I'm going to eat and that's just like that's serious though right because you think about when you come home like yeah I just had school or whatever like damn moms ain't here [ __ ] we ain't got no the lights ain't on damn I just hope and just pray that it's going to be at least a peanut butter sandwich or a syrup sandwich or you feel me though I hope it's some spaming that like and you come home to 19 your stomach start doing that putting that hole on you and choking the [ __ ] out you like what the hold on I can't I'm about to die I gotta survive what I'mma do I'm a kid ain't nobody there ain't nobody to say hey look hold on I'm fa you I mean make this wish sandwich you feel me though whatever like and it's man I got to go outside and get something to eat how I don't know but what I seen or what I heard and that one hungry Night Le leads you into a situation like this where I I I didn't know I I just wanted a piece of his chicken and he turned and I by the way it's it's such a powerful thing to say and most people in the world never think about that they think why this guy do this what happened here they have no idea what he just said and how real that is when you come across that board right and you looking at that paperwork the paperwork ain't going to say that no it doesn't say that it's not going to say that this is why this kid was here and did what he it's not going to say that and then you looking at that paper I'm not saying you personally but they get that paper and they look at that name and it's I throw that [ __ ] or El they get that paper they look at that picture and they throw that [ __ ] or they get that paperwork and they look at the black and white on it and it's it won't say that it doesn't say that but how do we get to explain that and then from the [ __ ] that do really do be going on to oh it's a [ __ ] up situation well that I mean you're right I mean I I I the file I get is everything that happens after that right and I guess it's just that's the lesson you know you can it's it's not what happens it's what you do with what happens that determine your fade and future and it's it's everything that happened it's the folks that will survive and thrive on the outside are folks that understand that I can't make up for the past I'm not the worst thing I ever did just because you know I I I I I stole something doesn't mean I'm a thief doesn't mean I am a thief uh and those that go on a journey of Discovery and they can demonstrate that uh those are the folks that that's what I read and that's the journey that I want to support and then the work Beyond this conversation is the work work about how do I see a different future how do I address these things from the beginning and I don't want to even bore you with the [ __ ] politicking or politics of prenatal goddamn care or 0o to3 or Early Head Start or child care or high quality tutoring and and mentorship and addressing learning disabilities and all the [ __ ] that is real where we got to begin at the beginning to address these cycles of violence ignorance and disease but but both of those things have to happen but the thing we're trying to control for here is what we are responsible for while people are here and this California model man is taking the best ideas from around the rest of the world and across this country and bringing to bear and one of the coolest and most amazing things for me that's revelatory and I hope you appreciate this Doug and marshan is we're actually in quite literally one of the great Rehabilitation programs in American history what San Quenton news has represented to inmates here for years and years and years and the opportunity I remember we were here just a few months ago and there was a kid who said all is ever since he got into the system his dream was to get into this room he said and I I swear to God true story we were sitting he was right behind me and he sitting there and said you know what I finally got here I said that's amazing goes no you know what was amazing is when I had my by line in San quen news and I said that's amazing goes no no you know was really amazing he says when I called my mom and she got a copy of it and she said said the words I never heard her say in my life true story I'm proud of you I'm proud of and he said that just it brought it just knock me I'm proud of you do you know what's what's crazy is like I'm say I like I've been up here to visit my pops and [ __ ] right but as I start to like think about it memories and [ __ ] like that's [ __ ] that you know I don't want to hold in here like I thought about I said damn you know what I've never heard my my pops tell my mother I love you and then I can't even remember if he ever even told me some [ __ ] like that you feel me so it be the little wins like you feel me when you get them like you got to stack them [ __ ] up so is he here no he's not no he not okay I'm say [ __ ] I want to get that man a what's happing my boy right you feel me but you like that be a part of the like the healing process yeah that's where it start at like o [ __ ] I felt something like what the [ __ ] just happened uh that didn't feel right but it felt good uh What the [ __ ] is that like get that [ __ ] off me type hold on but I liked it though a little bit let me try to figure out what's going on so then those kind of programs right yeah I mean that that hit me in a different way because all a sudden I mean that that guy's on the path and how old was he to recovery he's a kid bro he was 1920 man he's yeah he's a kid if he was 20 two three I mean wow the kid and he's gonna be here probably couple decades or he may be here the rest of his goddamn life may die here if he doesn't get his [ __ ] together but he's on a different pathway and there's power in those words man power in the words what his mom never said to him and like and here he is sharing it openly to a bunch of folks man so it it goes to your I mean what you just said about your pops your mom those things it's it's a those are powerful powerful words yeah [ __ ] all right that's how you going we're going to death row Bry let's go I ain't going [Music] [Music] row wait a second I'll come around I'll catch you yeah get get get your ass over here Jesus Christ little Le see my [ __ ] little leag guy I told you I told you you good yeah you all right yeah absolutely I woke up that's the best thing I can do you know oh thanks what so how what how long you been here now uh two years now two yeah and you were aware before uh Susanville for 2 and a half years and jam town for like 3 weeks and then I was here before that for almost 10 years 10 years Jesus so how much more time what uh I go back in four two years in two years all right that's around the corner yeah I need to see what up Doug Doug I uh hey tell Doug how we know each other oh yeah little league what little league uh Twin Cities Little League Twin Cities Little League bro okay now let me ask a question I'm telling you right now he was a decent player but you were much better than he was I can tell right now am I right hey he did all right until until he ran into KT Yen and broke his arm well there was that see Jesus I mean a guy who remembers Kurt Ying uh I'll feel the same okay uh he was actually one year ahead of me would you could you had a chance to keep going and playing in high school and college yes but uh choices I made right but when did you start making the crazy choices when I quit playing baseball really so the basball I went from hanging out with guys about you and others to hanging out with guys like hey what do you want to do that's go be high it was just and what are you in here for bur okay yeah so you're not you're not getting that you're you're right now no he's he's going to be he's coming up for 28 in right now 28 and uh Jes I got a 5year denial just for prison Behavior let me ask question it's always it's the crew you have in the day the the family are they do they are they involving you now do you see them or is this your family here now or what's your family mainly here my my friends are here I've been in throughout life and all the struggles in here uh but no cuz when I first felt there wasn't a lot of uh communication the lines were so expensive at the time and and then everyone has their own life you know they're you know in the mid 20s they're trying to start a family their careers you know and they're still trying to you know have fun he knows Hillary you know Hillary okay okay crazy that's some little man so it's just I mean the Dr it was the drugs that sort of led the pathway it was uh you know everything the once I quit playing ball that's that's to tell these guys cuz uh now I'm coaching on the team oh you're coaching does it mentally is it sitting there you're looking you're right played right there I mean I mean is it like you're like oh my God it played literally right there and now I'm right here yes everywhere I look I have a memory yeah and that's a good thing but at the same time it's yeah soy of knowing that I'm just so you know I went to school 5 minutes from here my house 10 minutes here his house is about 7 years I appreciate you keep going man what was it round T red table or Round Table Round Table Pizza Round Table oh yeah that was our team T was at uh in the C Madera one I guess they put a bank there or something now exactly there back there we're getting old yeah man good to see you again you guys to go all right take care hey good look I mean the only thing that the only way this thing works is you guys make it work man absolutely and the whole idea is I mean honestly I'm not exaggerating if we can make what's about to be unveiled on the other side of that wall and just 10 Xing the programming yeah and if if we can see the results of that then we're going to spread it in every damn prison and it's a big goddamn deal do you think it's going to be picked up by other states that's the whole idea cuz everything California does man we our weight I'm talking than you thank you appreciate it ain't going to happen but I appreciate you man when you when you do I'm president appreciate thank you for giving us hope my name is Jessie Milo thank you for everything you do for us appreciate man thank you uh we got a lot of work to do here bro I've been here my whole adult life and I've never had this much hope in the future for us that's incarcerated people and a lot of that comes from you and the work you do appreciate that brother that means a lot keep it up brother keep it up what's up guys howy do see you brother how you doing man I'm good brother how you doing I'm blessed you're blessed I love that I like that that's a good attitude take care man Warden how many people were here at one time when this thing was uh 20 years ago in in death row so we had close to 700 I believe 700 people on death row when I yeah when I got here we had uh we had five a little over 500 on death row on death row wow and they've all been moved out since was that the biggest of any state any state um I would say yes I don't know those those data numbers for sure but I would because as much as we have and how many people how many people on a year on a year basis were put to death um appeals process was very wrong so it wouldn't be yearly it would actually be sometimes five years five years got it so Doug um over the course of just the last couple couple months they've I mean not even just a couple months I mean over the course of the last couple years they've been decommissioning death row and doing a risk assessment for everybody side who comes off but this thing when we started it was completely foled up wow and um you know these are you can see just single cells anytime someone came out of the cell you can see the cages that they came in just right over here we'll go to the yard and you can tell me how great that is yeah you can appreciate the yard differently wow Peterson was here we actually have another area called North segregation which was actually ironically enough in honor death R unit um they were programmers so they would actually it's another building on top and their yard was on top of that building and they were considered honor meaning like they were the they didn't have any disciplinary issues oh got I got can work your way up there yeah w I think the most no [ __ ] the first time I came here the most alarming thing was not what is it behind you it was just seeing people in these things and going what the hell is this you know it's like a I mean that's this is these by the way these are all going right they're all going yeah the outside iys are those going too we'll show these guys you have your C you guys want to go past each other you go back back you me saying you saying there be two people in these yeah so there one person up top one person on bottom so we share the cell with somebody else whenever I need to go to the back of the cell we go back to back so Gavin would put his chest up against the rack I put my chest up against the wall and we like not back to back back you go that way and I go that way just you know what I mean y back to back so is this a size that cells in the main in the other part of the prison tent this is the same size only that another other buildings doesn't have that bar right there against the wall wow yeah these single cells right I mean death row yes they were all single cells now some of have one it's funny when we and people were here until when what year until a few months ago few months ago weeks ago they were just here yeah literally and some of them went to another institution together and end up selling up together okay but I want I want to show them something here's a worth seeing Doug go to the chap there's the chapel wow Chapel right there but I thought just look this was just this was just for death rad yeah but just you know looking up the Bob wire and everything wow yeah and they and they the chop would be right there yeah behind they' be right here and this would be once twice a day uh the service yeah once a week once a week that's it once a week yeah wow and then you probably had your your most talkative inmate was literally right there in the corner right yeah again if you walk these these these cells when they're in there here wow this is crazy yeah no it's a the first time I came in here the most surreal thing honestly the most surreal thing is how many people recognize me like almost without exception and then when they heard your name and then just to hear voices up top uh you forget you know I mean just you know being a mayor being out there in public I mean that's that's that's just it was to me it was a sort of eerie experience to did the attorneys come in and meet with these guys here or is there another area where the attorneys come in and they would go to our visiting area visi area yeah but but Doug so this all at least for the interim they're going to take the these these out and then they're cleaning in your R feels a lot cleaner yeah uh clean up in the they start bringing decompressing the general population getting rid of some double bunks bringing people in here oh so you put fris back in we're going to redo it though we're going to we're going to we want to change the image we don't want to associate it with what it was um but the single cell is very important um to a lot of these individuals cuz like we were talking about you know there's some scenarios where you really can't choose who you house with but these are the same size as the main block yes right two people in these this is all there's no they're all the same units correct there two better suits no sweet I mean there there's some things we can do I think you saw the larger ones down there you know we want to make kitchenet and areas where that can go get you know microwave of food and do different things that to normalize um the time we walk through there so we can just quickly show them the yard think walk they've evolved a long time they're currently called individual exercise yards um is the proper term but as you can see it's pretty much just a so for The Condemned and M that come here for their quote unquote exercise but we're getting rid of Maran all this is gone and so we're going to have this for program for yard for whatever else they getting moved September is our dat so you're going to see like simar like the lower yard bro you act like you on what's that home home renovation thing renovation like oh yeah and this right here this used to be my single Cale incarcerated area but I'mma tear it down I'mma put a something right here with a Gaz B and [ __ ] like what you talking about man you need to kick his ass up out of here he just walking around this [ __ ] like a grown man at uh Disney World or something not Disney World brother this I just for years we've been talking about this it's finally [ __ ] happening it's a big deal so do you understand what it do to me like I'm not a like you know I watch [ __ ] I see [ __ ] and then it it [ __ ] with me in my soul I get it I hear you man you know what I mean like I don't want to keep getting reminded of that [ __ ] like I get it I get it I get it but look if we go in there me and you in the gloves then I'll go in there with the gloves what two US throw me in the throw me in there with you for like 45 seconds two of us just me and you you can lock the door lock the door here is the that CL that cl cl and then just black out then I'm on the damn ground and I wake up in Marine General Hospital I like it no we going to take you to we going to take you to Highland okay High we'll get to we'll get to hospital later Jesus Christ [ __ ] well done man well done now ice back down here right yeah you don't have to go we're going you want to see the gas chamber and stuff hell no I really don't want to see that sick ass who the [ __ ] be thinking of [ __ ] like that it's important to understand the barbaric nature of the past so we don't repeat it bro they want to light that [ __ ] up right now it be just my day that I'm here and I want to make sure the [ __ ] it's on the outside it's literally outside why would y do you oh you [ __ ] up D no [ __ ] you hisory a my history dude [ __ ] up [ __ ] who be making the [ __ ] how your mind even think I just wonder if I just put somebody in this little place and just put all this gas in it I wonder what happened to him why would you want to do that that's [ __ ] up this is the old gas back when we did this back when it's been de commissioner since when decades so they would they would be in there and the family would be out here and this the G would come in here they stand there that's some white people [ __ ] for sure why would y'all do that go outside you can see the exhaust at the SM [ __ ] history's history Bro [ __ ] what was the process so they're coming from a whole other section from somewhere else they're not coming through this way yeah there's a back there's a back way to come in here so it's actually by at the end of East block and North block there's access to here yeah so they would just walk them down it was like 40 years ago I think was like the last time um so before my time 1980 probably because lethal injection came after right so we have a lethal injection they tried to clean it up tried to clean it up that's been litigated cuz it's all the Cocktails so who will be here though so who would be in his room Witnesses victim's family [Music] well I got to I got to be honest Gavin I mean this this right here was the weirdest part of the day man walking out of the the gas chamber in 1980 when I was 16 17 years old this thing still existed I mean I got it's I got a weird weird feel right now walking out of there man and you should because there's dozens and dozens of people today that could be get condemned to death and and of course we're using more Humane uh means now with lethal injection but that's just literally right next door but the idea the gas chamber even lethal injection used to line people up and shoot them hang people uh so you know there's a it it don't sound a little bit strange y'all that when y'all be talking about this it's like the people y'all talk about is they look like me disproportionate number like man that [ __ ] is [ __ ] up like bro y That's why do you think I did a moratorium because it's [ __ ] up moratorium meaning I sto it I that we would have been doing I I you'd have been reading about there have been protests right outside these Gates we would quite literally put ability to put couple dozen or dozen people uh to death just people don't even know before this we saw death row which was death row and for them to be in these cells that you couldn't even move and then go into cages I mean just had to get to theend is unbelievable in terms of uh you know how they're living so I Applause you for getting rid of this because Lar one largest one in is not just in America in the entire Western Hemisphere we're one of the few countries on planet Earth one of the few that still executes people I mean the Yemen IR China countries the Western democracies have ended the death penalty years you know now you know what I just thought about right now damn standing next to you talking like this and you say certain [ __ ] it's way bigger than just having a conversation cuz [ __ ] going take it and blow that [ __ ] way out of proportion we probably should get to the point where we don't have none of that [ __ ] like I think the rehabilitation thing we we probably need to take that [ __ ] a little bit further yeah we helping they incarcerated I just learned that you don't call them inmates you call them incarcerated incarcerated incarcerated but to help you feel me cuz God damn you think about You' been saying it's a lot not caught on to it the humane we probably need to get more of that type of [ __ ] well to hear your story you you you have food in the house gav I didn't grow up that way so you did and and to think the choices you can make tend up in here life isn't fair and and the imbalances are are this is a perfect example of but the thing you get that it's not fair right but the thing is somebody implemented a system for it to be that particular way it's just that I get the short end of the stick when it come to that [ __ ] yeah there's a there's old phrase Society becomes how we behave this has happened on our watch this has happened on our watch this is not someone else's problem this is the world we have created and so we all have some responsibility and some accountability yep so when you go run for president but I was going to say you got to bring me with you for I can give you from the you feel me level you know what I'm talking about cuz we going to have your level but then you going to need to you feel level yeah me and we kind of talk on that President you got to have the you feel me you got you got you got to had people that speak to the you feel he spoke to the you feelies that's I do want to say this like you were saying you feel me what I want what I want to say God real quick is this I I want to appreciate you because you are the the new wave of this and you're not the wave that you see and you hear about and whatnot where you know you're the guy in sha Shake Redemption you're these different you're doing it the new way because that's what it's all about so I appreciate this today it was real and enlightening and and scary and all the emotions in in the world so I appreciate what you're doing because when you and [ __ ] they wasn't like oh here this [ __ ] and [ __ ] they was it it was for sure was different they know you had to be back which is really cool to see man I didn't I was not exper I was not expecting that but Doug you know who has back I mean the people that these folks have hurt as well I mean this is not about being soft on crime this is not about absolving any responsibility quite the contrary uh people make a mistake they have to not only live with that they have to pay the price for the mistake they made but again the reality is tens of thousands of people are released every single year back into your neighborhood do you want them to come back angry with a chip on their shoulder less productive and constructive more likely to commit a crime again or take the time to humanize and address the underlying reasons why they're so broken in the first place and and that's the approach the Warren's taking and that's what this California model is about the 20 30 people I met today are more compassionate have a deeper heart than a lot of people I see every day walking the streets going to stores at the de I mean it's real these guys it's it's they they got it and and what you're doing Ward Works work and what's so I think and you you you've lived it and all the work you've done but I keep experiencing every time I come back the folks have said till X number of years ago I had no hope and so I acted accordingly yeah I didn't give a damn about myself I didn't give a damn about my cellmate I didn't give a damn about the warden or the guards and all of a sudden you guys started giving us hope that if we program if we do the right thing if we're more empathetic if we address the issues uh of the the violence we did outside these Gates uh then maybe we have a chance to get the hell out of here uh and that mindset is pretty powerful uh and I I hope it's it's paying dividends for all the the the the extraordinary staff that you have and and and the hard work these guards do every single day and I made this point about the California we don't want to do this to the guards we want to do it with the guards but nor do we want to do it to the inmates we want to get they're incarcerated we want to get uh their Council on advice and you've created these advisory committees that are inclusive not only people on the inside but on the outside that have real experience a lived experience uh here at San Quinn yeah I think that hope is safety for all of us we we walk in here and you feel the vibe the vibe is kind of different right any given day you can walk in here hear a band playing see a softball game going down you know we walked and talked and shook hands with a bunch of people that that live and work here right and and it wasn't this depressing feeling right so we're trying to make the best with what we got um but we got a lot more more to do as well well I appreciate it man much appreciate you guys very much appreciate it thank you sir than thank you appreciate Sean yes sorry big dog I'm I'm still trying to figure out how y'all got skitt here [Music]