David Peterson | Life In Politics

well good evening everyone and welcome to the Brian cromby Radio Hour on Saga 96 I gotta tell you it's an unbelievable honor for me tonight to introduce you all again to uh former Premier David Peterson who is the premier of Ontario uh I was very proud to uh at one point in time be his youth chairman during his leadership campaign and I believe it was 1981 and Brian I wouldn't have had the job that it hadn't been for you you got in there with your energy Your Enthusiasm your brains and you just made it all happen and was one of the Happy Times of my life working with you um and when we won that thing and then it sort of went on to uh we had we had some good times we had some great times I I I should tell you about some of the uh I should tell everyone about some of the times I had canvasing you in I think it was the 1980 um uh provincial election where I went door Todo with you in London and uh and and people all over London knew you and knew you well and would come out of their uh their apartment doors and give you hugs and sometimes it was old girlfriends but I won't go there uh and it was a lot of fun to to get to know you you that was you not me it was it was a great time but I understand just just this past weekend you had a celebration of your 80th birthday I know the birthday was in December but you had a big celebration of your birthday and so that's why I wanted to reach out to you and find out a little bit about how you're doing and uh and and maybe review a little bit about your career and uh you know maybe you can talk about where you think Ontario is going and Canada's going so tell us sir how does it feel to be 80 well about the same as it felt when I was 79 um I am I guess it's a milestone for some I I'm not one of those guys that spends a lot of time looking back ran I'm sort of always looking forward people have come to me and said why don't you write a book and I say you know that that takes a lot of retrospect to stff i' I'd rather concentrate my energy in what's going forward but I but but the reality is I've been very blessed and I have I have enormous amount of gratitude in my heart I've been given opportunities in my life to try to make a difference it's not for me to judge whether I've made a difference or not but others will do that but um and I've had so many wonderful experiences and so many different levels from politics to the PanAm to the University of Toronto to I've been on over 30 public Boards of directors a lot of philanthropy hospitals universities theaters and I just uh and I'm in good health and my wife hasn't thrown me out and I am I consider myself very blessed the kids are all doing well so um I look back only with gratitude with with no other no other emotion I you know there have I done everything right no do I have any regrets no I think regret is the most useless of all human emotions so just keep moving forward excellent so let's talk a little bit about your career so you started out in business I understand and and and you were quite successful in that area in the London Ontario area before you got involved in politics is that correct well I am a lawyer by training I went to Western then I went to law school then I came back to London and my father's a consant Salesman talked me into coming into the family business so I took out the business I took over the business and we bought him out and then I spent years doing that and it it my father had uh was a brilliant brilliant brilliant man he was born on the Prairies I'm backing your question up he was born in saskat one absolute abject poverty 13 kids some died of INF dis on a farm these were Norwegian peasants they didn't have enough to eat my dad left home when he was 13 uh had no particular education but he was actually one of the most brilliant men I've ever met in my life and his best friend of the president University because he was so well read self-educated and and uh he didn't want his kids to have the deprivations that he had had he came to London started a business and was quite successful but he got tired of taking the risks that it requires when you're in business and owning it yourself so he talked me into taking over and I did and then I after that got into politics so that's a short history of where I and you first ran in the 1970s I believe and you ran for leader twice and you won on your second uh attempt is that correct in 19 that is cor well 1975 I ran and uh I was elected and you will recall Bill Davis was kind of on the ropes then although he never really got on the ropes Bob Nixon was who you're related to right Bob Nixon is my second cousin sir yes and uh so you have Royal Blood in you Brian and he was supposed to win it didn't turn out that way and the liberal part party was uh didn't do as well as it expected so Bob quit after that election in 1975 now I was elected and we didn't make an urban breakthrough there we still didn't weren't have any seats in Toronto to speak of except Margaret Campbell but we won three seats in London Ontario and so I ended up in uh A Member of Parliament and I was I think 31 or 32 years old Rec recently married and um and then things started to happen you know I walked out of the first Caucus meeting when Nixon retired and someone a reporter came up to me and said are you going to run for leader and I said well how can I run for leader I don't even know where the washroom is in Queens Park and anyway just things compound themselves and go very quickly in politics and I ended up running for leader very short enough I I didn't know I learned a lot I learned a great deal it was it was a real exercise in fast education but I didn't win I lost to steuart Smith you'll recall I did but because IID run I was you know he gives you some prominence I ended up as the finance critic which is the senior critic's job in opposition Stuart took two elections didn't win and then he retired and then I ran again and that's when you and I got involved and that was in 1982 I'd been hanging around there doing my thing and I ran against you'll recall the name Sheila cops and uh I won the leadership and then then we say okay now you're leader what have you got and it was it was a bankrupt party uh with not a lot of prospects and we then started the donkey work of building a political movement with the policy the people the organization the programs and all the things we needed to do to present ourselves in the election of 1985 and 85 uh it was actually the conservatives that uh that held on uh but you entered into an accord with the ntp is that correct what happened was the there's 125 seats in the legislature the conservatives had 52 we had 48 it was absolutely unheard of that we were going to have that many seats all the momentum was with us in the cons in the NDP at 25 and so uh and I was running against Frank Miller you recall that Davis had quit so we had a core so we we came saying we had a higher popular vote we had a higher popular than the conservatives and we were really coming on fast at the end so Miller came into the house approached the house lost a vote in the house and the the governor came to the left hand Governor came to us and said can we form the government and we did with the Accord with the NDP and they agreed to support us for two years they did not want an election under any circumstance because all the momentum was with us and we had agreed to do a certain number of things excuse me um policies that we'd run on so we had a very aggressive program that we ran on with support of the NDP and we went ahead and implemented that and and I think observers of Queens Park would say it was probably the most productive legislative time in the history of Queens Park people Steve people like Steve Pon say those things and he's a close Observer and I was uh honored to help you out on that campaign and my second became your Treasurer I understand he did and he was the deputy leader and the treasur and a trusted friend and Advocate he's he's an your your cousin Nixon is an institution in this province and he's he's still kicking he's in a an old age home in Paris but writing a Blog and a comment on the nature of the world and honest to God is some of the most trenchant commentary you could ever imagine so and he's 95 so Brian you're gonna keep going like that when you're 95 I I hope so let me tell you I go visit him every once in a while and he's a wonderful gentleman we've got to take a break though for some messages so we're going to take that break and be back in just two minutes and hear more from uh former Premier David Peterson stay with us everybody back in two welcome back everyone to the Brian cromby Radio Hour on Saga 960 it's an incredible honor for me tonight uh to be interviewing uh the former premier of Ontario David Peterson he's a gentleman that I have a an incredible amount of respect for uh you ran a business you uh were a member of provincial Parliament you were a leader of the party you were premier of Ontario and then you uh became very involved in in uh business uh law and and charitable organizations and public boards so you've really had a very wide experience maybe we come back to politics uh and your political uh career for just a couple of minutes uh and maybe you could comment on you know the Accord uh you know stepen Harper had uh big opposition to the idea of a coalition after there was a an accord between Michael aatf and uh and Stefan Deon and and the NDP federally um uh Trudeau uh Pier sorry Justin Trudeau prime minister of Canada has had this uh Supply and confidence agreement with the NDP federally now is there something wrong with uh having an accord or some sort of agreement with another party or or is it a smart thing to do in your mind I think it's a smart thing to do but it depends on the circumstances it's not smart all of the time you can go in and say take over government with u you know maybe two or three if you're close two or three other people from a different party as opposed to a a big piece of the legislature this was appropriate to the circumstances when we had roughly a tie between the conservatives us and the NDP with having half that number of votes now to the best of my knowledge Brian this had never been done in parliamentary history before there's examples of that now and you pointed them out with the federal liberals and others as well and they did it in BC with two or three uh green party members right but we were different than other ones we wrote down specifically what idea was the NDP wanted to do a lot of things I said I'll do this but I'm not prepared to do that because those ideas you have are crazy which they were and I but we're we believe in this and we will do this and it was a very Progressive agenda we were on the Progressive side of the question and I realized at the end P did not want to have election because everybody thought if we had another election quickly which I was prepared to have we would have probably won because we had all the momentum at that point but that that balance of power held this whole thing together for a period of time it worked I think in the circumstances extremely well uh it they don't always work well it was not a coalition now Coalition is where you share executive power you put the other party in the cabinet with you I was not prepared to do that and and the NDP mentioned at the time and I said there's no way there's not a chance I'm going to share executive power we we'll share power in the legislature because you're duly elected to that but I bear the responsibility for everything that goes on so but it was an interesting uh approach to A peculiar set of circumstances and I think well what were some of the the biggest issues you had uh I I think I remember meech Lake as being one of the uh oh god there were a lot of we we we we it was such an active period of of Reform I mean we just came in first thing I mean small stuff but symbolic brought television in the legislature that was just the first then we brought in Freedom of Information there had been never been any Freedom of Information this place had been run I used to say by a bunch of uh you know conservatives out of the Albany Club smoking cigars by white angle Sox we turned its power back to the people we ended extra billing and took the biggest doctor strike in the history of Ontario we reform we brought in reform and funding for for um schools and funded Catholic schools had hadn't been in for I mean we we ended up doing that and bringing that in and it would just goes oh we reformed the court system we brought in things to to build for productivity and created centers of excellence putting all our universities together we uh uh we even small things you know during that period Brian we invented the blue box we were the first government in the world to do the blue box it was invented here under our watch and now it's a it's a method of trash separation that's used around the world and I I small things but they added up to a lot of big things what was it like dealing with the leader of the NDP Bob Ray Bob's a very bright guy and he he had his own agenda and uh he wasn't and his agenda wasn't my agenda his a his agenda was survival uh and my agenda was to provide as good a government as we possibly can but it was uh cordial we didn't spend a lot of time together we had intermediaries uh when we had to do something but I tried to be very respectful of him um you know when we went to for example to China uh you know to meet the president of China we were building new new links to China it was very hot then it's a different story now but and and we created Technologies I took him with me and I tried to treat him with the respect he deserved prime minister at the time I think was Brian morron tell me about your interaction with him well I had known Brian beforehand I knew him when we were both single young men around town and I know he is Montreal Brian is one of the most Charming people I know I'm very very fond of Brian I didn't always get along on every issue with him I didn't see the world the same way I knew his strengths I think and his liabilities but even when I was mad at him I liked him because he is so Charming we both gave a lot of blood on the meech L Issue it was in many ways the most important thing I was engaged in and it failed right and I had lots of critic lots of people think thought I spent a disproportionate amount of my time on National Unity issues but I had a view I the following view I've read my history of Canada I had I love this country it it is the most decentralized Federation on Earth outside perhaps Switzerland really that's interesting you think it's the the most decentralized Federation on Earth yeah it is fact I You could argue Switzerland's a little more decentralized we're far more decentralized than than the United States for example and the second point is it's the only country in the world where one piece I.E Ontario represents roughly 40% of everything GDP the economic output and were we so important and that's the premier of Ontario and I had models in my life like John robarts who I adored and respected I had to play a a role in keeping this country together we couldn't be just another whining Province like some of the other ones were smaller when you're the biggest richest guy on the Block you got to take your punishment and let people criticize you but I believe very strongly in the axis between Ottawa Quebec City and Toronto and you'll recall that I I was a very good friend of Ro Robert basa we worked very hard to try to put make this country whole in the wake of the um patriation of the Constitution by Pierre Trudeau it was a wonderful piece of work but it wasn't a complete piece of work I'm not going to get into the details I I actually lecture in constitutional law and I won't bore you but let me just say we were working on these things to try to complete the patriation and bring Quebec into the Federation and you're seeing a signatory on the Constitution which they are not to this day and you're seeing some of the results of that today in the tugs in this country between Quebec and Alberta and other things that are going on this is not an easy country to to manage but Ontario has to play a strong role we are we're blessed we are the richest when you're the biggest and strongest and richest you have an obligation to others in my opinion and sometimes you have to let other people you know criticize you but um so I thought we had an important role to play and we tried to play it and then you uh you left politics uh what do you do next well I you know I went I lost the election um for any whatever it is it was my fault it's nobody else's fault you you you don't blame others you say here's the secret of politics Prime when you win everybody else did it when you lose you did it right so I lost and uh and then I actually didn't know what I was going to do I had no idea I hadn't planned on doing this I went and I taught at University for six months and I had the most wonderful just to decom press and I got engaged with students it's wonderfully exhilarating and uplifting with all these energy from these young people and I lectured a lot then I um offers started to come in and I was from law firms so I went to a law firm I went to a law firm called castles Brock that uh offered me a job and I was very happy do it then a number of things came in of businesses and know Ted Rogers asked me on the board of Rogers and a variety of other countries companies I've been on a bunch and then people always you know you how could you help so I got involved with the University of Toronto um I was on the Board of Governors and I was asked to be the chancellor of the University so I spent time doing that then the premier came and said well would you run the to go after bid for the panamerican game so I spent a year going after that bid I'd be I'd end up on planes I'd fly to South America I wouldn't sleep in hotel sleep on the plane go have a meeting in South America people made the turn around get on the plane come back without being in a bed in three days I because I was working very very hard in those days with with the law and and everything else I was doing and uh corporat and so we won the bid then I wanted out of that but then the premier the next came and said well please come back and run the thing because there were some issues so I came back and took it over and had to make a bunch of changes in the management and it turned out to be uh arguably the most successful games of all time and we came in $38 million on their budget so um anyway you when people ask you to do things you do things and it's not as if it isn't Fun Brian I get a you know you don't get paid for this it's all volunteer all you get is criticism but it's fun and it's not life isn't fun if you're not involved when you look back uh what's your uh proudest accomplishment sir my kids I have three kids and seven grandchildren my kids are all very accomplished uh no credit to me they're doing their own thing not my thing one's in Toronto one's in New York and one's in Nairobi they're all appear to be very happily married and the most important thing to me is they're all wonderful parents wonderful parents so we have an awful lot of Joy with our grandchildren and our kids and at the end of the day there's no question that's the most important thing in my life wonderful um I don't know if you know this uh but I had the privilege of interviewing your nephew uh who uh ran for politics and uh and he's a very impressive young man himself which one this would be uh son oh Evan sambus oh he's a beautiful kid I love this kid he took on a very tough um riding and he learned a lot he worked like a donkey and he really learned a lot about Pol he's now working in Ottawa oh he's he's a kid to watch well we did an interview where he talked through a bunch of policies and he was a very knowledgeable young man yeah he is he is he's a great kid good for you you're find these kids and bring them along BR just like you well it was it was a real pleasure of mine to sorry goad finding you and bringing you along well I don't know if you remember how we connected um it was actually your mother-in-law that uh introduced us because I was at University of Western Ontario business school and I think it was Tom Hawkin uh that was uh my one of my professors and his campaign manager was your mother-in-law and uh and he introduced me to her and she said uh you shouldn't be talking to the professor given your politics you should be speaking to somebody else and and she was the one that connected me up with your Camp that's right and see that's the other Dirty Little Secret in our family Shell's father had been the president of the Conservative Party of Canada and he her mother worked on a bunch of campaigns for the conservatives I actually went to a conservative convention just after I married Shelly and worked for her father who was running for president he was defeated by Michael me and that's a little piece of obscure Canadian history that wasn't concern but it was family right because family is important in politics as you know and uh and then Joyce when when Shel and I got married and and and she she became a liberal was very very active with us as was her sister shelle's sister Deb who went onto a very distinguished political career as minister of health and very and Deputy Premier with h Kathleen Whit lots of lots of involvement uh and lots of success uh uh so it's something that you undoubtedly are extremely proud of what um what about your work with UF tell me about that well I I was invited to go on the board of University of Tonto I'm a graduate of University of Tonto and then David Naylor and David Naylor was the president asked me to be the chancellor which is uh what's the chancellor like the the the university is a three-headed monster it's run by the president who's important chairman of the board is important and the chancellor is kind of like the king you don't have any real power but you get robes to wear and you actually officially confer the degrees I presided I was six years Chancellor I presided over 181 convocations and there there's something like over 80 over 80 or 90,000 kids I gave degrees to so you get involved in their lives uh I was at most of the official events on the University I was continued to be on the board and you're a mentor to and close to the president as I said David Naylor who I got to know very well don't forget that includes um then Arendale the University of Miss Miss Saga as well as Scarboro is arguably the most brilliant man I've ever met in my entire life and the University of Toronto is by all independent measures one of the best best universities in the world in the world probably the 17th best university that's comparing it to Harvard to Caltech to to Oxford to Cambridge and to keep those standards particularly when these big un us universities have 10 times the endowment per student at the University of trto so I got involved in all aspects of the University including the fundraising we're involved in a campaign now and I'm involved in this to raise four billion dollar four billion dollars four billion it's the biggest campaign in Canadian history but that is to keep out in the front of the really important technical areas like like and and and and and and social areas as well but things like artificial intelligence and things like uh graphic design and all it it it's it is the intellectual Forefront of this country and if we don't have great universities and Brilliant Minds we're not going to have the the great businesses following all that so this is uh something that's worked very well for can I was deeply grateful to be involved in all this and all these stratospherically smart people doing interesting things and hopefully making Canada a better place you cannot you cannot build a society in the modern world you cannot build a a civil society or a decent standard of living without high intellectual value p and a lot of that not all of it but a lot of it comes from your universities and you have to support them one of the issues that's come up at times is is are the universities tied in enough with uh the business community and and and the community around them or are they Standalone unto themselves what do you think well the answer is yes and no I I mean it can always be better but they are not agents of the corporate sector the corporate sector's got their own interest look corporations their motive is to make money right and uh that's what they get paid to do make money and they're judged by pretty harsh standards universities have different standards they they're not just there to make money they're there to produce leadership intellectual leadership provide the intellectual capital for leadership not just in science-based Industries but all kinds of Industries so yes it needs a very good relationship and a working relationship to provide the kind of brains industry needs but it also needs independent thinking of people that can stand up and say society's going the wrong direction here we are in a very very very Frau time in this country and in the world and we need you know it's not it's easy to be a pessimist these days I'm not but I I had lunch with David Petraeus last week uh you know he was chief of staff and and for the US and ran the campaigns in Iraq and U and Afghanistan he said he has never ever seen the world and since and he's been actor since since the second world war never seen the world in such a fraught tenuous and difficult set of positions whether it's with China or the Middle East or Ukraine or the rise of right-wing populism in the states and here to some extent the absence of you know the the decline of media the decline of anybody agreeing on what the truth is the hatred that's palpable when you turn around it's uh this takes people that can find our common humanity and this takes people that can articulate the things that put us together not the things that divide us well I think that that's uh a real concern there's absolutely no question about it but maybe that's what we can turn to after we take another message break and and and ask you what kind of leaders do we need uh to uh to address these issues today uh we're going to take a two-minute break for some messages and be back with David Peterson former premier of Ontario and maybe talk about some of the challenges we've got in this world today and and what ideas David's got uh to address them stay with us everyone back in two minutes welcome back everyone to the Brian cromby Radio Hour on Saga 960 David Peterson the former premier of Ontario a gentleman that I had the privilege of uh getting close to when we campaign door too uh in a provincial campaign in 1980 and then uh I had had the the the honor of being his youth chair for his uh leadership campaign in 1981 and 1982 when he was Victorious and I was very proud uh to uh to uh do a small part in uh in in being part of that team to uh helping them to be Victorious and then uh uh you may not remember but I ended up uh being president of a Riden Association and campaign manager for one of your candidates uh in a lot of fun a glorious career from the time you were a young man Brian I had a lot of fun with it sir um so you were just addressing some of the challenges that we've got uh worldwide and and uh you know not only do we have a war in uh Eastern Europe obviously with the Russian invasion of Ukraine and a war in uh in the Middle East that seems to be expanding uh every single time I turn my TV on um and uh threats in China uh and you know was interesting I I read a report uh where people uh uh one of the big think tanks in the United States said that there were three Wars going on right now um Ukraine Gaza and the war in the United States between two parts of itself um and uh called for a new type of leadership that would bring people together which is sort of what you're talking about what do you think we need to do uh right now with this incredible Strife that we're in R if I was so smart I'd still be there trying to solve these problems but let me start with this point it could start in everybody's heart and you start this way just because you believe something does not make it true if you have a view it's your point of view it's not necessarily the truth the truth has been sacrificed in all of these public debates with Trump and everything else Trump is going to be criticized for many many things with history he's destroying our institutions the FBI the CIA our courts but more importantly he destroys the truth he makes up things you're not entitled to make up things and just because you believe it does not make it true just because you believe in the Easter Bunny does not make the Easter Bunny true so that take some intellectual humility say I believe this is my point of view but other people are entitled to their point of view and so becomes the beginning of civilized dialogue you don't own all the truth I don't own all the truth but together we can approximate it better and I for some reason I there's the social analysts are at all this it's something to do with the social media something to do with decline of conventional media something to do with the rise of cable news when I was when I was in public life there was you know a bunch of newspapers and there you know and and a bunch of networks and they more or less had the same should we say news now if you make up your own news and you can go and get on get on a television show or get on a blog or get on a on social media and make up your own truth and look at the falsehoods that are coming across the airwaves look at the dark web and look at the junk that intelligent people believe it is just it is horrible how you can pedal lies and I don't like using that word but pedal just basic untruths and people will gather around you I this is the new world social media but it is a hard world so how do you provide leadership how do you find common ground how do I how do I get rid of the crazies there are crazy people in this world really crazy people and some of those are on the right and some of those are on the left we have to gather up the reasonable people in the middle and say we can find solutions to some of these kinds of problems and it requires respectful dialogue and understanding and I that's not a very satisfactory answer Bri but look at just look at the junk that comes across through Donald Trump it's it offends any reasonable person intellect it just offends your intellect and offense your sense of morality if he he makes up things but it's not just him there are right-wing um populists uh in lots of different countries they all seem to be following similar strategies aren't they not right and they're are left-wing populist too they're crazy people on both sides of the spectrum so we ass Shue The Crazies we we haven't we always had crazy people it's just they got a far bigger megaphone today than they may have had in the past bigger megaphone there probably more crazies and that's what social media has done the decline of conventional media we conventional media used to curate the news and they had they aspired to tell the truth a lot of news today does not aspire to the truth they just aspire to to to get attention it's a very very very big issue I don't have the capacity to to reach across this except to say thoughtful people people that think about things read things read all different points of view and are respectful of others can come to a consensus a hell lot easier than the crazies so in meech Lake you may not have uh been Victorious but you work closely with uh Brian morrone and as you say Robert barasa um if you were advising uh President Joe Biden or prime minister Justin trudo on this topic in regards to the sort of uh um partisanship and the the the the polarization that we've got what would you tell them to do look it's tough you know you you just get beaten up look at the you know Justin is not particularly popular he just gets pounded by everybody I get it a very effective leader of the opposition and um you know everything's over simpi as does Joe Biden you know um Trump has taken off the gloves he just comes at him day and night with uh you know personal things there's no restraint today in the old days there used to be a restraint you know when I was a politician you couldn't call another person person a liar you'd get called in the house for that that's just common today and so what do people are watching this what do they think I think you have the answer to your question I don't know Brian I this is a $64,000 Question but be honorable be well centered be decent be prepared to absorb the pl the blows that that come with all this but don't let put decency aside as you try to find common purpose if uh these U three Wars uh and uh sort of the social media polarization Etc is the big issue internationally uh domestically the big issue is affordability particularly housing affordability um what what do you think about what our governments are currently doing in that regard and what do you think we need to do if I was so SED I'd be there Brian I I I don't talk don't ask me how to solve the current problems I'm not current and all of this housing affordability look I've got kids I know what it's like you know you know you know trying to buy a house or put down Roots it's terrible and there's so many issues involved basically it's a supply issue uh and they're going out in a thousand different ways from immigrants and students and everything else and not letting forwarders buy houses and there's all and but it's B it's a function of interest rates and supply and Municipal Supply and then um and you got to do that in open and transparent ways and you can't do that by favoring your buddies and you lose faith of people so the whole problem in ter has been set back enormously by the sense that certain people are profiting from this issue and if certain friends of the government and if that is the case you lose public support keeping public support is a very tenuous business we got to take a break for some messages and we'll be back with some concluding comments in just two minutes with former premier of Ontario David Peterson uh who just recently celebrated his 80th birthday and it's real honor to chat with him stay with us everyone back in two welcome back everyone to the Brian cromie radio while we're on Saga 960 I'm I'm just really tickled uh to uh to share this uh 45 minutes with uh David Peterson the former premier of Ontario and a man that I have uh incredible respect for and we've talked about uh about his career we've talked about politics we've talked about uh some of the big issues uh of the day but David I got to ask you you and your wife shell seem to have had just such an incredibly positive long marriage what's the secret sir um I I if I like I don't know what do I know I got lucky you know I Brian I I met sh she was on the stage I saw her took her up for lunch fell in love and married her um two and a half months later and we just got we got married and it I just celebrated 50 years and our 50th anniversary and I I there I have a few thoughts but we believe the same thing we believe in kids we believe in the institution of marriage we believe in working things out if there and we have had not not we've virtually no problems that are serious but everybody gets mad occasion she gets mad at me occasionally but the the secret talk a lot just talk a lot we talk about every damn thing even trivial things and important things and she gives me advice and I give her advice and she's very much her own person she's a very accomplished author actress she runs a horse farm she's she's very accomplish human she has her own confidence she's not dependent on me uh to do stuff um and but we have an awful lot of fun together and the other thing as I get older I think just have fun it's and I look at my own kids and they just have fun with their kids and you don't need to spend money to have fun you can just go roast a hot dog in the Park just go for a walk just make fun in life and I'll tell you those are kind of the crazy glue the memories that bind people together over the course of Life David Peterson it's been a real pleasure chatting with you tonight and uh I got to tell you you're one of those individuals that I have uh the utmost respect for I thought you were a great premier of Ontario you were a great uh individual to learn politics from when uh when you ran for leader uh and you been a real help to me in my career uh in a couple of different times uh where you were kind enough to give me recommendations and you were very accomplish young man so I'm very happy to do that Brian I wish I was that young man but thank you I appreciate that that's our show for tonight uh we've had the privilege of uh chatting with the former premier of Ontario David Peterson on the anniversary of his 80th birthday and it sounds like on the anniversary of your 50th wedding anniversary so that's a a great uh a great privilege two biggies two big and uh I look forward to chatting with you again sir that's our show for tonight uh thank you for joining us I remind you I'm on every Monday through Friday at 6 o'clock on 960 am you can stream me online uh even from London Ontario or downtown Toronto at triple W Saga 960 a.ca all my podcast and videos are available on my website brian.com I post my podcasts on all those podcast servers that are around and all my videos are on social media uh Facebook Instagram YouTube and Linkedin thanks for joining us everybody Premier Peterson it's it's been a real pleasure and an honor sir you're a media star nice to be with you br