Inside the new Patriot Way with Devin McCourty & James White | Pats Interference

Intro-mailbag [Music] all right recording here Friday morning excellent episode coming at you I think the names say it all de mccordi James White both back on the podcast for the first time together which I got to tell you was not on purpose the plan was actually just to have James White here Friday and then set up an episode next Monday with Deon who has been making the media rounds and split that up get ahead kick my feet up have a weekend continue to work on longer stories with the herald which are going to come out in the next couple of weeks and then we had a timing conflict and I said you know what in the immortal words of the immortal Michael Scott why don't we just gang bang this thing and get out of here so we have Devin and James here for you today I assure you I did not say those words to them uh they were fantastic you miss them uh I love connecting when I can with either one of them let alone both at the same time and so this is a really great conversation about basically everything you would want to know going inside the Patriot's building talking about Drake May OTAs and what to expect and then mini camp where these guys had so many teammates they came through Foxboro some good some bad um some less than bad and how soon you could tell whether these guys had it or not and they'll tell you what I should be looking for and then relay to you throughout OTAs in mini camp and when you can come to training camp and see for yourself whether or not guys like Jayvon Baker or Leen Robinson or Jaylen pulk and of course Drake may have it or not so this is Insight 20 years of experience very close to it in the building Super Bowls captains all that you know them you love them we're going to get to them in a second but first uh a small Spiel for me then mailback questions and then the back end of this mail fan with Jordan bosu for uh the second time since we've opened the mail fan segment where you ask me a question you donate the Boston Children's and you get your own segment uh it's going to wrap things up I just want to say thank you because it hit me this week is life as far as the Patriots go kind of slow down a little bit right like there there's nothing faster than the final stretch heading into the draft the draft itself is a marathon and then you sit with your own thoughts and your grades and you do a podcast and you finally breathe and so in the process of finally breathing it hit me that this podcast has been going on for a little over two years and we've had so much growth whether it comes in from the views or listening or forget all the numbers just how about having Devon and James where I love talking to either one of them individually but both at the same time and then getting feedback from you as to who you want to hear from so as we get old stories from these guys as we hand out grades with Doug and gardi as we dance around dick jokes with the guys from the ringer before the draft we're getting close to what the best version of this podcast is going to be and I think it's just going to be something that you know it when you hear it I'm going to feel it when I'm in the middle of it and to get closer because if your support which helps us grow along the way and and reach more people and get better with your feedback as well as the guests that we have um just just means so much to me so I wanted to say thank you and if you feel so inclined to say thank you back please leave me us a rating or a review I think it's been six weeks since we've had one and my pitch is always the same so I should probably change this up uh you've committed I would ask toate about 45 minutes at least to this podcast episode if you have another single minute just leave a review just give us five star four star whatever it's going to be we take all the feedback good and bad so please give us the feedback if you have some again with a rating or review preferably an apple but also wherever you get your podcast uh and so to again say thank you we're going to lead with the mailbag and then get to Deon and James and I promise this is something where I almost always break this promise I said this is going to be quick and then I finish at the end of a three-minute monologue in a conversation that's supposed to be with another person we are going to go rapid fire with these mailbags because of course you want get to Deon and James uh and they were great so here we go thisen from Twitter this week a couple days delayed apologies for folks who wanted these answers right away here they are Aaron quote are the Pats still seeking a true number one wide receiver Aaron I got to tell you I think that boat has sailed and it's not because the Patriots just gave up and watchs to sail away from them it's just the nature of the market I think the last chance and I could be wrong but was Brandon auk or Debo Samuel who reportedly the 49 49ers wanted a high High first round pick that could have landed them Malik neighbors or Marvin Harrison Jr or Roma dun so that they could just trade away the pro proven receiver for the supposed Camp Miss Prospect and just keep marching on to the Super Bowl that obviously didn't happen so they're going to run it back around Brock P's contract for one more year hope to resign Brandon iuk I wouldn't rule out a possibility that this happens maybe in the summer let's say Ricky piol who obviously San Francisco just drafted just completely balls out maybe maybe then they're more open to trading Debo who I think is likely trade target for anyone but for now the Patriots like th those are the names that are out there we talked about tens you don't use a franchise tag unless you want to keep him that's the beauty of the franchise tag for a team he's going to stay put so will the 49ers I think everyone's just going to be in waitand see mode maybe until next offseason Pats fan Kevin quote what's a scoop running back feels like an area where there's usually three or four viable names in the roster but currently there's only two uh that feel like realistic roster locks I was very surpris there wasn't a day three pick here do you feel a veteran Edition coming yeah possibly uh I I think they have indicated they're higher on Kevin Harris than you are and I think that's not necessarily earned but obviously they're R Kevin Harris more than you or I uh are that being said I wouldn't rule out a veteran addition I think it might be health related there are three other backs behind Kevin Harris giving them six deep at the position and this is something that we've talked about a lot on the Pod rushing success is not so much the guys who's carrying the ball it's how the offensive line performs in front of him and then how many Defenders on the other side of the line scrimmage so the Patriots go if we can do our job up front or create favorable boxes uh through formations or motion or any kind of scheme then we can run the ball whether it's Stevenson who's still a good runner or Antonio Gibson who I think is an improvement over Ezekiel Elliott but if either one of those guys goes down absolutely uh in training camp or the preseason early season they're going to they're going to sign a veteran back Doug with the draft in the books and looking at the roster what remaining free agents should the Patriots be targeting to fill the roster holes so it's funny that I waited a day for this because the Patriots had two roster spots when I was writing Wednesday going what's their next major move going to be is it a bay zappy trade is a cut inod ju Miss Shuster could it be signing an offensive tackle and then they signed an ed rusher and then they signed Joey Sly a kicker so there go the two free roster spots they have no roster spots available again as we record here Friday morning what I would say though is if training camp start slowly like last year when it was apparent not just to me but to coaches I spoke to about this where Riley Reef uh without pads on in the first couple days of Camp got demoted from first team right tackle to second team and then later moved to guard because in the words of someone I spoke to if we had 10 reps of pass rush between Riley reef and Josh uch uch would win nine and the last one might be a tie so my point in bring up is if uh Chuck aor for or Kaden Wallace or Calvin Anderson is not ready at left tackle B tiari and maybe Charles Leno would be two naves that I would watch for because those are proven left tackles not cross your fingers like a COR for and Kaden Wallace maybe they can do it maybe they can't and guys who are available back to area obviously with Green Bay neither in the eyes of the front office are going to be your starters you know for the whole season but at that point you just need a body and I don't think the Patriots can afford to wait like they did with Riley Reef and Calvin Anderson emergency trading for Tyron Wheatley Jr and Vian low in late August I think it would be early August if they see they're in trouble because you just you just you can't you would hope you would think you would pray suffer the same fate at tackle as they did last year and really for being honest at right tackle the year before Gary two-part question quote uh one will any other player sign an extension before week one B if so who is that player uh I don't see it so I don't really have a player here for you and if there is a player you know you're looking the 21 draft class just recently became uh extension eligible that's why Christian barmor got done uh no one in 22 is available or eligible for an extension right now so Stevenson's the last one and maybe they get some sort of team-friendly deal with him but the running back Market is so I don't I don't know how I put this it's It's Not Fragile but it's it's difficult to navigator predict based on the deals that the top end veterans got this year Josh Jacobs and squ Barkley and how Stephenson might view himself if he wants a bag um then he's not going to get an extension if he really wants to stay and take like an uch level team-friendly deal then yeah maybe he gets one but I I just don't see that happening I think he's a guy who will want to hit the market um though he said on the record he wants to be here for countless years it's just it doesn't seem like good team business or a number that's going to be um you know high enough for Stephenson just to take before you know he could hit the open market and have all of his options open Dan do you have confidence that the new offensive staff will be able to organize a competitive offense Define confidence like I um I don't remember what I gave Alex vanel for a gr and I think whatever that grade is has been bumped up by you know half a letter right now based on things i' I've learned and and spoken to people close to him and who have worked with him before I think the scheme will be simple and complimentary enough but there's a real concern on my end as far as how many other teams would have signed some of these other assistants or in fact let some of these assistants walk from Cleveland or New York where you look at now offensive line and running backs for the Patriots um you know that they really had competition for it's the same thing for a player if you're the only one bidding for a free agent or looking to draft someone there might be a reason for that doesn't mean that you're wrong and everyone else was right but there's just a lot of coaches and assistants who fit into that category so I don't know like C+ and that has has a lot to do with Alex Vel and a little bit more to do with Ben Badu than I expected but if he's just focused on the quarterbacks not running an offense not leading a room not leading a team that might be a much better role than I expected when he was first hired so it really comes down to those two guys uh overlapping questions we got two more uh the first one is the is the overlap Chris and mayor musings who do you see as a starting left tackle is the transition from right tackle to left tackle as easy they make it seem and may aming is brought up Calvin Anderson so right now based on what the Patriots have told us I would say and Elliot wolf answered this question himself so this is not a projection this is what he said either he was lying or they've already changed their minds if it's not uh chumu cor for that's it they're GNA give a guy who was the Steelers starting right tackle the last three years and has only played left tackle in the NFL during the preseason a chance to be their starter uh week one now they won't have pads on until the second week of training camp so he can be there and you can glean some as we just talked about Ry Reef how well you're holding up against speed rushes or are you executing your assignments has your contact balance all these things without pads but he'll be the guy week one Calvin Anderson is someone who has had uh many more starts at left tackle but was more of a swing guy in Denver who we just talked about players that teams don't want uh he fit that category a year ago when he signed in New England so I don't think based on last year's tape when he missed all it can and was sick and there will be more on that coming out I think in the next few weeks and months don't leave it there uh it's his health it's his business but I don't think you can pen him at left tackle I don't think it's fair to judge him what he did at right tackle not having a whole summer and being thrown out there against the Eagles and the Dolphins um but I think what they really hope is that it's Kaden Wallace is the answer to your question now last one from eie quote you mentioned recently Me Elliot wolf spent wisely in free agency aside from resigning players which is a good thing uh no that was his parenthetical not no money was spent to improve even if it was just the offensive line upgraded in for agency would uh it would have allowed for more maneuverability in the draft why are you so high on Elliot wolf so let me say this I am an Elliot wolf believer I've told you this I've written it it doesn't needan I see Super Bowls in the future uh or the playoffs in two seasons but from everything I learned talking to GMS like John Schneider who won a Super Bowl Jason light won a Super Bowl Nick cerio we can all see what he's doing down in Houston now that he's finally has full control over roster uh Dave zegler and even Brian gunts who worked with Elliott for years and years and years in Green Bay all of them gave Elliott rave reviews and I get that they know their words are going on the record so no wants to be a dick in public especially with someone that you have to at some point maybe negotiate with talk trade with or otherwise do business that said everything I heard about Elliott on that level with the GMS or Scouts Underneath Him people who used to work with him people who knew him in Green Bay was just Sterling stuff now in my own view I would take issue with the description you just had there they didn't make any effort to improve jacobe Brett immediately bring some competency some organization some leadership to that quarterback room he would have been Far and Away the Patriots best quarterback last year given what we saw okay they also upgraded a running back with Antonio Gibson and you could make an argument Austin Hooper is better than what Mike kasiki gave them and even if you don't want to make that argument what I would say is there was no Baseline guarantee there was no copying and pasting the 2023 defense and a roster and just into 2024 Kyle Dugger could have left in free agency Mike wenu could have left in free agency Hunter Henry could have gone Josh uch could have walked out that door infy Jennings so there's a there was a much lower floor to this team than we will ever see because those guys were resigned all of which were resigned to team-friendly or just perfectly reasonable deals like uch was an incredible steal and I'm not here to just applaud Elliott at every single move I give the whole offseason a b but what I see is discipline in free agency where they pursued a receiver like you should pursue a Calvin Ridley but at some point came to stop and Doug Kai shared this with you last week earlier this week that might be a bad deal in Tennesseee for Calvin Ridley so I see someone who prioritizes the right players internally I see someone who has a limit in free agency which you don't see with a lot of GMS especially GMS who are working on an an addition uh an audition and then in the draft takes the quarterback which we all wanted we all saw was most reasonable outcome and I didn't love the Kaden Wallace pick but getting a receiver and an offensive tackle and another receiver that's how you draft premium positions because if you hit there's no better value than having a player at a premium position who's a high-end Talent on a ridiculous cost controlled contract so all of the decisions I've seen the process as sound I think they've landed in a good place maybe you want upgrades here there I'm not here to argue but as far as free agency if it wasn't Calvin Ridley okay what other receiver did you want to see them sign because there were names that we threw out there Maris Brown might have been it offensive tackle Tyron Smith was never going to come here Jonah Williams totally fair grie I I I would have pursued Jonah Williams they felt differently they didn't want to do it um and that's why it's not an a it's not an A minus it's not a B+ it's a solid B for me so of all of those things that's why I am a believer so uh that's about it and we are going to get to James and Devin one last thank you and request if you have minute please rate and review and until then enjoy this from De mccordi and James White well let me tell you soon enough we are going to turn our attention to the Celtics and Bruins cuz they're getting in in the playoff action and so can you with prize picks America's number one fantasy sport Sports app where right now you can win up to 100 times your money with as few as four correct picks with basketball hockey in other sports on price picks and I'll tell you look I like price picks for baseball too the Red Sox just started up they're playing the Mariners the A's I put a little money down and I got a lot more money back so download the app today and use code clns for a first deposit match up to 100 bucks I did the same again download the app today use code clns at Price pick for a first deposit match up do $100 and you can do the same basketball hockey and baseball we got a lot to do until the draft and you can find it all at prize picks all right come back in time with us it is uh summer 2017 James White is a big Super Bowl hero Bill does not care about that so we have Blitz pickup in training camp Devin versus James I need an answer on the count of three who wins the head-to-head one-on-one Blitz pick up Deon mccordi James White one two three go J me he's not a Blitzer I'm not gonna get here and your post career be like man I used to do this no my blitzing was weak I need to be unblocked oh yeah until 18 right till Flo finally cut all of you loose like we we saw a little bit of time that final Super Bowl run but you just uh you're out on that and come Camp yeah I mean if I'm unblocked I used to tell Flo draw that thing up let's do it one way all game and then one one or two times send me they're not unexp it I get a free sack if I'm not getting a free sack I'm good that's the one thing about me though if I get to the quarterback I'm not going to be like the rest of these slaps that run full speed in there and then miss I got to the quarterback I was gonna get a sack is that check out James that checks out man that's he's smart man a lot of these other guys get a little too excited when they get to the yeah it's like what do I do with my hands when I get here you know a kid go and approach like a dog or something you just didn't expect to get that close that's the worst thing about p i remember we played Lamar Jackson and Chase wov we talked about it all all week like you're not gonna run in there and Sack this guy him and uch run in there and they're like man he's so quick yeah that all week guys slow down he's gonna make you miss yeah uh we appreciate both of you coming on we got a lot to talk about here today so I want to dive right into it especially Devon you took a train were you coming from New England today I know you said you got in back home in Jersey this morning yeah I was but I wasn't in uh Foxboro for this trip this was a charity thing I was in uh in Boston oh good stuff uh thanks for stopping by and saying hello just down the street not a big deal um it's uh but you you were recently visited with Dad and there are a lot of stories now the draft is over OTAs are coming up we're talking to guys like you would sometimes once or twice a week hey what do you think of the new program Yad Yad the focus is on what's going inside the building uh murals are being talked about messages so just from your last visit to the building and gerro like Patriots greats Devin McCourty and James White take us as best you can inside what that looks like now under new leader leadership and with basically a roster that's already put together yeah I think the first thing I think it it was cool just seeing the different changes they made inside the building I think I think no matter what like new regimes like you want to you want to kind of put your mark on it you want guys to feel like Hey we're coming into a new era because usually no matter whether you step up and you already there or you're a brand new coach you're usually coming into a situation that needs some type of change Inside the New Patriots Way whatever you want to call it so um I got to see the which I think there's it's a bigger deal uh than than people make it I think I think teams have different things I've gotten to see that now right being you know retired and doing media I go different teams buildings and it's all different kind of things but I think New England has been such like a closed door type of place that everybody's like I heard there's a new mural in there and it represents this and I think the mural I think it's cool like it's it's seeing some past Legends jerseys and stuff that are up there and it's this young kid who is dreaming to be a patriot and I think it fits I think what they're trying to build there I think it fits Mayo I think it it's just a new regime and I think it was a pretty cool idea and concept that they came up with it and I think the coolest thing is the artist is right from Boston from New England Die Hard Patriots fan grew up a Patriots fan never spent much time in Gillette growing up as a kid but always was a fan so I think that I think that symbolizes what they're trying to go for and I think that's a pretty cool thing so James you and I were talking off air you have not connected as much as Devon has with kind of the new regime all the changes except for Ted Harper somehow you connected with the team nutritionist together James is doing his own thing out in the midwest but I just want to get your perspective because with that distance not only just like the physical space you know of where you are in Illinois right yep in Illinois but the time that you've been away from the game and the organizational little bit longer than Devon has what do you make when you read and see things on Twitter of just all of these changes whether it's mural related or not I mean I think it's pretty cool I think for anybody who's been walking into the same building year after year and seeing the same stuff you want to see you know something do something that gets you excited to show up the work you know obviously Mayo has been there as a player as a coach he's seen you know a lot of different things he's coached he's played he's G to use his experience to help change things to the way you know he wants to do he wants to put his own imprint on it with Robin like we've been seeing in the media like we talking about before we got on air you typically never hear anybody else's name come from within the building but hear you know Robin's name and she's a person who was very active in the community work and I think that mural kind of speaks to speaks volumes to what you know she's done outside of the building and she's trying to you know make that a part of you know the football organization which it has been but you don't necessarily hear that talked about from the coaching staff point of view so I think that's a unique aspect and unique spin they put on it so the reason I brought up Robin uh Devon to James offer was I was reading about these new slogans that have an asteris in the corner did you did did you see any of that when you're in there no I'm not going to lie to you I didn't pay attention to the reason I brought up it was in the store at Campell from the NFL Network and we'll skip over this but there was an explanation that the asterisk means or represents the North Star which in her sense was it was something that's always moving but we're always going to chase and my first thought was the Northstar is a little more famous for being fixated in the sky and it then becomes a joke that you have to explain but just like James hiton the openness of more people are involved they're going to try something new I think you'll see with the players with the coaches just like a play call they're going to land where they want to it just might take a little bit of time but I I've been very curious about the asteris because well I will say I will say Mayo uses that phrase the North Star a lot in he he always talks about the Northstar being whatever we're ultimately trying to get to of whether it's points allowed on defense like whatever we were talking about he he would reference and use that um so when you say Northstar I have no idea as or whatever that is but the North Star and what that represents I've heard Mayo speak about that multiple times like coaching and uh from his Viewpoint of of what he thinks that means I've heard him use that okay all right I'll I'll revisit the story or ask around and I think they're actually G to do a media tour which might be the furthest 180 that you could have Bill time yeah D has mentioned and uh taking us around showing us what was new this might be later on so I will report back to to both of you here in the podcast um but you mentioned the coaching staff de you dropped this week that like gerro had raised the possibility of you joining James I know you've answered the same question even if it was just theoretical let's say you guys got to take the job and it wasn't the insane hours that it is I'm curious what's one change or tweak or idea understanding what the building was in the program was and what you think it should be or be part of that you would have pushed on day one of this theoretical job as an assistant James you go first H for me that's tough It's you get so used to an adjusted to the to the current state but I don't say I wasn't on too many special teams when I played but I know a lot of guys that were on special teams getting more time to get ready you know pre- practice because sometimes you have like 15 20 minutes jump out of meeting you know get dressed get taped try and warm up really quickly get out on the field so giving guys a little bit more time to get your mind right get settled in maybe look over your plays and all that before you get out there and get ready to go for practice I think that's one big thing that I would change but you know everything else I thought was you know fairly standard for you know when it comes to day-to-day operation you know you're G to meet a ton you're G to walk through a ton just giving guys a little bit more time to get ready to go out there you know and practice at a high level and that was always a thing like that was like James knows we sat in CET meetings all the time with Bill and try to discuss all right how much is enough time and then it would be perfect and then one coach would go over his meeting time that would then make the special teams go coach go over his meeting and it would just mess up every other day would be you know unknown um but honestly I think for the most part they've done a lot of the things I think think for me like I've gotten to know Mayo pretty closely so we used to always talk about different things um that could be done differently and I think because Mayo was a captain for so long he was always involved in the things that players liked so I think the biggest thing is I think being more collaborative on a on a lot of different things I think that is huge and you know talking to slate I think that's a big part of of the reason why slate is there is I think he's he's a connective tissue to everything right he can he can be the guy that talks to people upstairs in the front office the players the coaches the uh the staff that are there to help the support staff that there to help the players um so I think that is the biggest thing that I would have said of hey how do we make this where more people can do what they do best and more people can kind of learn how to lead I think with Bill you had a leader that was there for so long is just people naturally came in and tried to be him but there's no blueprint to that and I think now they have a lot of people trying to create that blueprint to be successful to be a leader and they're all trying to work together to get to that because I think you have to when you lose such a a strong figurehead in the building like that was there for 24 years you can't just say hey gerro go be Bill like that's impossible you need a lot of people to kind of fill those roles it's funny you mention connective tissue because that's also what bill was too right like the guy who's the head of the front office the head of the coaching staff I I assume he wasn't with Ted making the meals but okaying at least like what kind of DJs you guys had before practice or not at all you know so like that you need more players or people like that to kind of bring the compart the Departments together because we can say collaboration all we want but what does that look like in practice and who's leading or initiating that collaboration have you uh have you talked to Reverend slate lately can you give us an update more either either of you guys like what he's been up to in his new role because it sounds perfect for him is what you just described yeah I mean that was my when I went up there for most of the time I was there I was just in office with Gerard and slate and honestly like it it was it was a little bit about what they're doing but I mean we all we've known each other since you know my rookie year in 2010 so a lot of it was just like catching up and and talking talking trash and uh I think that the unique thing is for both of those guys it's you were in something for so long and now they're both in brand new roles so I think both of them were like man I'm handling a lot of things that have nothing to do with football and that's every coach I've ever talked to when they go from being an assistant to a head coach or for slate being a player to now being you know coach slash everything else and in between um it's the how many things we deal with that don't necessarily on paper help us go win a football game but it helps in the grand scheme of things like we were talking it was like we're like we're talking about child care we're talking about uh the weight room and this thing and that thing he like like we haven't even gotten into the three technique the why like the wide receiver stance or the new kick off we haven't done ball so that was that to me was uh was fun getting there to talk to them about that because I've heard you know being back at Ruckers in college and I remember when uh Chris Ash took over as a head coach and he was like I put out fires all day like I don't get to watch ball till the end of the day um so I think that has been pretty unique for both of them being into that so uh it's fun being able to be there and and I think for me now being the media same thing with James is you learn and see so many things from like a you step back and you can just watch and enjoy the game of football so I get to talk to them about conversations I have with like my co-workers like Jason Garrett to me has been a guy that has I've learned a ton from because the organization he was in was the Dallas Cowboys everything all eyes on you decision making all the things that he would look at and review so whenever I get a chance to to sit down with gerro I just like to pass on that knowledge and tell them the different things I've learned so um I always try to do that whether it's in person or we're catching up on the phone or anything like that but um he never he doesn't come to me to help be the head coach of the Patriots I don't have those answers not the bu on your guy but have you shared any clapping techniques that J Jason might pass on to anyone else he got a lot of love in Twitter spaces when you were playing for just his constant on the you aware that always this down 30 this up 30 he gotta keep it the same man um one real quick thing because you mentioned putting out fires and this isn't a fire but and it's not to make you know light of a rookie being anything more than a rookie but when you talk about things off the field that don't talk to winning that he might have to handle Javon Baker's Zoom I don't know how much either of you saw that making people stand up out of wheelchairs the first thought that hit my head was Bill would have traded his ass for a future f as soon as the zoom was over like is that something that you're talking about and this goes to either of you where it's like I have to deal with this in the leadership position you guys have been around other head coaches even if it's not football and if so what was your reaction to to hearing those it f I talked about it with judon on on my podcast I was like that's a guy you gotta take under your wing 100% but I like the confidence though he's gonna come in motivated like he said uh he wants to bring the the hard work the winning mentality back in then so I think he has the right mindset I think it was more about you know where he got drafted he thought he should have got drafted higher than he is and now that's like the new thing with the kids like they they jump on Instagram live as soon as you know soon as something happens and they they share their thoughts and feelings versus you know in the past you you wait till the media calls you you talk about you can do it all by yourself so yeah he he was still fresh asking for drink where the drink's at and all that so you the he didn't get portrayed in the greatest light but like I said you see the videos of him working out against you know some of the top corners from the draft and all that so he's putting in the work it's all about you know when he shows up into the building I don't think it'll be necessarily a big deal I'm sure Mayo I'm sure Mayo have something cooked up for him the day he steps into the building for the team meeting I'm sure they'll get a big kick out of that especially especially if he not witing some reps [Laughter] ear that first day like MF and liquor it wasn't just where the drinks at it's where the MF and liquor at one o'clock on a Saturday and you you need like they need that you need I always tell people James myself slate were all a certain way but the truth is you can't have a team full of why you ain't say me y what's up shows up at my house back just walking around just walking around his big crib and look I like this man what's up James upw what's happening yo you're interrup we're doing a podcast bro all right podcast of fre come on in get what did what Jay say about Jayvon Baker's comments the other day oh I love it I Manan you talk about Superior confidence right there and they're going to have to Tamper him down though who knows though M M's in office now the old ways out the window let him talk is D-Mac/James on Javon Baker's comments trash well I text slate I text slate right away and I was like Hey the first thing I thought of when I I heard that was guy's the second coming of Jesus Jesus is the only guy that was out there healing people couldn't walk now he's making people walk I was like this is awesome but I I think you can't have everybody who's by the book like Jamie Collins came in Jamie wasn't by the book Jamie was a dog for the Patriots makeing play like you need guys to be like that to have that edge to them and it seems like Baker's gonna have that and it seems like they might have got the leader type of guy in Pulp and now you get to build a room around these guys hopefully going forward into your future so um I liked it I think receivers need to have a certain level of confidence they need to be a little crazy uh and like I'm I'm anxious to see what you guys say in training camp like right put them out there and you gonna have pep Pep's gonna be out there in and screaming you're have so it's going to be interesting to have that Dynamic to have those guys with k with Bourne with KB yelling and screaming um I think that they need that I think they need that on offense some skilled guys that just go out there compete but also gonna tell you about it uh so it should be fun to see I'm so glad you say that first of all as the the content creator media member of me I will I will actually take a team full of Javon Bakers but the point being that like if you did have that what makes him special KB for example energy he brought in 21 he first gets there that stands out because he's a one of whatever in that locker room uh but I am curious when you text St slate this is the second coming of Jesus the 21-year-old who had just been in Instagram live how did how did that God-fearing man take that that text that how did he respond we just got emojis flowing back and forth dying laughing fire and brimstone or like fire comments because those are very different but it's the same Emoji it was just laughing emojis and okay I think that's the that's the thing right you draft you draft a young kid who like James just said he's excited he's like man all these guys are better than me and comes in with a chip on his shoulder and then I think the key is to back it up and I saw James had judon on and judon was like he he can't walk in with his book bag on with his head down like you said what you said come and work your butt off and go go do that like we want that if I'm on defense I'm all for Baker guy making people stand out of their wheelchairs I'm all for it that means touchdown yards let's see it let's have it you know so should be fun to see awesome all right let's talk some ball shall we uh James when we're making a checklist and look to be clear my ota's checklist very different from yours I'm bugging Stacy James every single day I want Javon Baker and I want the quarterbacks to talk every single day after practice but in the times that we used to see you guys at practice and we now I just took like once a week or once every 10 days you know it's always installs right it's you know sometimes Texas drills non-padded stuff the the basics all the way down in the classroom aside from that what do you want the Patriots to prioritize and say if we get only two or three things out of OTAs this spring in mini camp it has to be you know a b and c for me the number one thing is team building I know we did a ton of it you know we were there even though we maintain a lot of the same players on the roster now you got new coaches guys come from all over the place different players make sure you guys are learning about one another the quarterbacks learning the offensive coordinators the quarterback coaches that that's what matters most you know learn how these guys learn learn how they you know go out there and perform on a day-to-day basis I think that's that's huge and then have fun and obviously offensively they just got to build chemistry you got a whole new you know offensive coordinator new players coming in there build the chemistry and it it starts right now in in OTAs and all that if you you come out BS and bullshitting dur OTAs that Gonna Roll Over in the training camp and roll over into week one week two week three so I think it's very important for them to hit the ground running offensively get sh up that offensive line you know you can't really establish like the Run game and OTAs and all that but the fundamentals just making sure the ball's not hitting the ground too many times getting getting everybody up to speed I think that's really the most important things as an offense especially collectively they they have to be on the same page and I said that's those are the few things that I think are very important for them during OTA season yeah I mean I agree I think I think James hit it the relationship to me that's trust they have to build a trust not just you know for the players on the field it's the scheme the system like there's been a lot that's happened in the last few years especially on offense of different coordinators coming in so you have to build that you have to build that trust where the player knows what you're telling me or if I ask a question you can fully answer my question or you go to Van Pelt and you go to madoo whoever you need to go to as this new systems coming together and you get the right answer you don't tell me something then he tells me like all of those things that can happen on teams you you don't need that I think that's the first thing like James said that trust I think they have to it's boring but they have to build the fundamentals you have to have that I think on both sides of the ball I think they need to be able within that trust and the fundamentals they need to come together as a team I think last year was really tough you heard some defensive players kind of you know frustrated after games like I guess we Team Building during OTAs (James White & Mccourty: Team Building Is Most IMPORTANT in OTAs) got to hold them to zero points or we can't give up that was that wasg straight to me so if you want to blame anyone but it was but it was it's true we lose a couple games now it's six zip it's 106 it's 107 that gets frustrating as a defense so I think you have to have you know that side I think the third thing for me is just compete like you want to have competition James said you're not going to have the running game but within the passing game seven on sevens all of those things you want to see everybody compete your receiver room is stacked right now it's a lot of bodies in there you want to say who's going to compete drills on the offensive line you know Trent Brown's not there anymore so that's a position Cole strange was hurt a lot last year you had different guys in there you have kind of Big Mike and Dave coming back as like guys who have played a good amount of meaningful football for you but other than that you're trying to find who's going to fill in and be in those other roles so you want to see that and I think defensively you have guys coming back uh a lot of guys coming back and you want to just continue to compete hey what we did last year doesn't just roll over into this year year we got to go compete we got to make the offense better by going and shutting them down every day like that should be your mentality so um I think that's what they want to walk away from the spring let's stay with the scheme uh for a second though because this was something that came out more this week where mandre confirmed hey we're doing a lot of wide Zone and if you looked at Vel and the Browns obviously they did some of that after starting as more of a man black uh Gap scheme team but James like I you know we we I looked to the offensive line this offseason like that will be the tell is this going to be a gap scheme team to stick with the powers and counters Etc or pivot to lighter zone team and they kind of just ran it back right like except for Chuck and cor for they're going with the same line what do you make of that scheme fitting the talent that you know having played with most all of these guys I like it it's it's similar to what Sam Fran does outside zones play action you know easy access throws where the quarterback's not holding the ball too long outside Zone it's a fun play to run but obv it has to be blocked correctly if nobody seals off the edges nobody cuts off the backside then you're basically just run to the sideline gaining no yard so I think you have to build a chemistry offensively with the people next to you on the offensive line tight ends it takes everybody on every single one of those plays receivers too but I I like the scheme I think ra Andre is the perfect outside Zone Runner he's a guy who has enough speed to get to the edge he can put his foot in the ground know make guys miss and I think it's it's very quarterback friendly especially for a guy like jacobe brassette and if Drake May ends up playing at some point throughout the season I think that's a very good scheme to start him off in his career and then the defensive side I mean Deb you you face this offense in 21 you guys win 45 to7 at home and then go on the road and beat jacobe starting in Cleveland uh what do you what do you think of it just from that vantage point you know how they marry that outside zone game with the passing game which seems like it'll be simplified no matter who's playing quarterback yeah I mean I I think the challenges because we we played against those guys a couple different times and and we got the best of them that but we had another game where you know tackling Nick chub is you know that that was that's that's a bit of a problem and I think not for J Jones you talk about 19 when he raced like 60 yards eight tackles yeah I think that's that's a huge part of the scheme I think what James just said ra Andre is a perfect back for the scheme and I think that's what it comes down to when you're defending against different teams from a defensive standpoint is all right who are they using in this scheme that's why San Francisco is tough like you could talk about their scheme but it's like all right in this scheme is going to create D-Mac/James on Patriots running wide zone (Rhamondre Stevenson PERFECT Fit for Patriots New Zone Scheme) a one-on-one matchup against Christian mcaffrey all we have a guy there to make the play he just makes a miss so that like that and I think that's what this scheme will allow you to do set up different things with the play action with the zone and then maybe throwing in some different Gap scheme plays within there is create the one-on-one matchups that you want that are favorable to you and then go from there I think the biggest thing for them is you got to be able to win you know you got to be able to win outside with all these different things when you're running the ball and you can run the ball well the way to stop that as a defense is to say hey we're going to go and leave everybody outside oneon-one because we think we can stop you one-on-one and stack the box and do different things to take away the time the quarterback has to throw and put the pressure on the receivers versus the DB so I think that's something that I think they know like hey we got to win those matchups and I think when we played them that last time we did a good job of covering their guys so it made it harder for them to do the different things in the running game and we were able to get a from ahead changes everything how you can play the game so I I like the scheme it's just it comes down to execution like James said and and winning those one-on-one matchups I love that it's I mean it's the truth but it's also like asking someone like how well do you speak French like oh I know it but can I speak it like that's the execution part there it's no good unless you say the words uh okay so the draft is behind us but that means the best is still ahead of us I'm talking playoff games Celtics Bruins and I'll be there covering the Celtics with the herald we lost our guy Steve hwit which brings me to my real point you want to come with because you can find Celtics playoff tickets lowest price guaranteed at game time an authorized ticket Marketplace of the NBA which makes getting playoff tickets easier and faster than ever prices on game time actually go down the closer it gets to tip off you can find killer last minute deals Allin prices including those pesky fees view from your seat and always always always the lowest price guarantee at game time which takes the guest work out of buying NBA tickets and honestly I've used game time for other 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on the team right not not as coach as a TR I would have it you're on the roster you're eyeing all these rookies we talk about Drake May Jayvon Baker Jaylen PK whomever what are the first signs that maybe not definit but like maybe these kids could help us right away what are you looking for the shest signs that like they they can make an impact early even before you put pads on I think limiting mistakes I think that's the the huge thing as a young player's a lot being thrown at you you know you don't want to go out there making the same mistakes every single day when a guy's not making mistakes and he's he's making plays here he makes to play on one day next day he makes two plays next day he's like okay this dude this dude on the he gets a reps with the first team now like how you know you capitalize on your opportunities I think that's the huge thing as a quarterback though I think you want to see them step in the Huddle and get control of the offense I can only reference it from M Jones he was the only rookie quarterback to come in and start you know from the time when I was there just like each week you're like okay like this kid's being a little bit more confidence he's talking a little bit more in the Huddle he's making some checks that you don't necessarily see a rookie quarterback check or you see blitzes he's seeing the coverages I think that's when you start to build confidence in a ton of these young players and speaking of OTAs too like Jobe Myers he's a great example during his OTAs his his rookie year like we had nil Harry the same year as him you know he came in ready to work he didn't get many reps but like each week he he's got more and more like okay this kid starting to make some plays out there sure enough he's working his way working with the first team so I think it's you know constant repetitions and consistency it's hard to CH even for veteran players the consistency is extremely hard so if those guys can come in limit mistakes and consistently make plays think that's where you're like okay this guy deserves to be out there on the field yeah you got I mean you got to know what you're doing and I think that's the the key because that's the way I always look at as young players you got to earn the respect from the guys you're going on the field and my rookie that's what I was most nervous about when I first got in the first team huddle for the first time I was like damn I'm in the Huddle gerro Mayo's making a call Vin right like I don't want these guys to look and be like yo he doesn't know what he's doing and you're looking at the staff now like yo we don't want him in here with us if he doesn't know so I think knowing what you're doing is a big part of it because then you could just go play ball you got drafted for a reason there's not like this Talent gap of when you get to the NFL you're just not good enough no like How they can tell if a rookie will break out you're you're probably good enough know what you're doing and then just go play ball so you could start to see that I think right away um I think the athleticism you'll see in drills when you're doing different things whether it was JC Jackson whether it was you know throughout my career Alonso dinner like we had different guys I remember Don Harmon missed uh all of spring with an injury and we got back for early training camp because I had uh shoulder surgery that year and we got out there and I'm like all right dude's a rookie I'm G have to I'm G have to like tell him a lot of different things when we line up at safety and I go to tell him he's oh no I'm down I was like he was studying he knows what he's doing already and when you get that and Veterans like ah I like when this guys in here with me I I can you can start to you can feel a connection to chemistry build so uh yeah that's my biggest thing just know what you're doing and if you don't know I would always tell young players if you don't know what you're doing and we get out there tell me hey what I got right here don't look at me and just nod your head now I I think you know what you're doing and then we mess up and you know we oh tell me you don't know I I'll try to help you get right and then we'll move on from there and then the next time you get out there like James just said I expect you to know what you're doing on that play you cannot know what you're doing again because then it's like all right this guy's not going to be able to help us right away he's going to have to develop a little bit well that speaks to the trust you mentioned right like building that starts with you got to demonstrate that ability and that that that earn trust that you'll have making play after play like you you guys can tolerate mistakes but at least know the why and trust that you knew what went wrong before almost it even happen so you can go back and go just fix this next time without having to to backtrack through that um now the Packer way obviously is something we've been writing talk about a lot on my end of things because of Elliot wolf things jat said draft and develop and they're going to play the young guys so I want to start with Drake May because I don't know how much you guys have watched I mean James you've been you know covering the Big 10 and part of their coverage and Devon you're you're busy on the weekends out here uh but just from this kid what you've heard what you experienced with Mack what would be a fair scenario in which he starts and where what what signs would you see whether they involve him or maybe the line or the receivers that go we should probably sit him because I I at least think they're going to give him chance in the spring and summer to make that decision for them yeah it it should be an open competition it always should be nobody should just be handed the starting job jacobe will get probably the major of the majority of the first team reps right away deservingly so he's the guy who's has the veteran presence he's played in the NFL but I think for Drake May is just kind of like what I just talked about day-to-day just just building building chemistry with the receivers building the chemistry with the line building chemistry with the backs showing some leadership you know getting command of the Huddle there's a there's a a lot to know you know at the quarterback position in the NFL and every single day you're going to see a different defense a different coverage a different Blitz as you never seen in college and they're gonna expect you to know how to handle it not the the coach in the booth you know telling you you know to adjust the play adjust the you know the the blitz scheme and adjust the routes from the receivers so there's a lot to be learned it's not saying that he won't or can't beat out Jobe very well can happen I'm always the biggest fan of you know letting these guys sit and you know when they earn they earn it or if the quarterback star quarterback's not performing well then you throw them in there because we see we we faced a lot of rookie quarterbacks you know throughout my time there and some of these guys never recover from starting their entire rookie season because their their heads just spinning from all the things that they you know went out there and failed that early on in their career um but yeah just build confidence dayto day and just learn as much as possible be a sponge ask questions from you know ask Jovi ask you know the receivers ask the offensive coordinators stay laters show up early all that all that good stuff because quarterback's the the hardest position know in the game of football and I said The more you you practice at it the more you rep at it you'll get better yeah I mean I agree I think they should let those guys go compete and I think for Drake May if he's out there and he's doing all the line calls and he's comfortable he's able to make throws able to read D-Mac/James on whether Maye is ready to start coverage then yeah I mean if that's what it looks like in the second or third week in training camp and you're sitting there and you're just like how can we not play this guy I mean we we we practiced against Houston back in Deshawn Watson's rookie year and I remember being out there and him and Tom Savage and I I was in school for a year with Savage at Ruckers and I remember leaving from those joint practices being like DeShawn Watson's not far off from Savage like the way they're reading the coverage the way seven on seven looked like I was like it's it's not like Savage was out there and the ball was hitting his hands and like he wasn't just dissecting and moving and I was like once you put in the Deshawn Watson element I was like and I think it might have been week one one or to three where it was like all right this game's not going well let's put Deshawn Watson in he gets in makes some plays and then he's off and running so I think I think they're going to have time to see I think one of the key things is I think they want to just make sure whatever's out there is stable around Drake may I think that one of the hardest things for rookie quarterbacks is when it's not stable around them and then they're asked to not come only their job but there asked to be like that true veteran quarterback hey you know this guy might be struggling up front we got to make sure and be prepared that we might have to give him help so you got to understand when this like that's a lot to put on a guy I think you want to have great stability with your offensive line you want to know your your receiver core who's playing who's going to be here what rotation do we have how comfortable do we feel the backs who were in there third down pickup you wanted the back to be really good at understanding to be able to help the quarterback where it's not all on his shoulders I think that's what happened for Mack in his second year I think a lot of things kind of went and fell on his shoulders to try to not only get it and and do it but to fix things and when you have to fix things that makes it really hard as a player you want to get to a really veteran level understanding of what's going on before you're able to like actually help people fix things and what we used to say out there on the field is kind of like excuse my language but un situations that that's hard to do as a young player yeah and as a producer of this podcast who needs to Ender a BAP at 3418 thank you but uh it's a great point because I remember you know like again these kids get draft and our job is to dig more about them and learn about them and one of the tidbits I had heard was not only ma back then was giving to Nick sapen uh it's another bleep on it um what he was he was telling the left tackle when he would screw up hey you need you need to be better like we we will all fall if you do within two seconds there and don't give me enough time to throw and I feel like that's very different from what you just talked about right because that's accountability but then there's problem solving while you're also trying to learn and so I don't want to rehash the whole Mac experience you guys have both talked about that with me or other people in media um at nauseum but it'll be very interesting to see how quickly Drake can problem solve if at all in training camp and even if he can do those habits of maybe extending plays or scrambling and up hurting him long term because exactly his solution is to just run away and that'll work like four times a game it's a killer and third down two-minute Drive we've all seen Patrick momes plenty of other people do it but Zack Wilson Z that's your best pal there when you break it down I mean how many times was he just trying to make plays that he was able to do in college he was able to do that Drake May was able to do that at at UNC I don't care who you bringing he's probably not gonna be able to do that in NFL and you don't want you don't want to you don't want to learn that that's the way to play quarterback I think that's the biggest thing you just don't want to that habit as a rookie uh I want to run a theory by you because both of you at least watched or saw do you see a little bit of a bill on mckin during the draft and I know the sentiment like brusi tweeted this out like if you were never in a team meeting all these pauses are when Bill is dropping F bombs or I think deie might have tweeted like this is the this is the real deal like he's holding back a little bit on the criticism I in listening to Bill drown on in the media very intensely very well over the years I had a theory that whenever he mentioned a quarterback and didn't say anything about accuracy or anything about decision making but said so and so like Zack Wilson week 2 2021 can make all the throws that was Bill speak for I think he sucks because that was a compliment to the media of like he's so talented but my point is with this again just Theory what does it matter if you can make all the throws in shorts and a t-shirt if you don't know exactly where to put the ball and you don't know when to do it which is the decision-making part my is this Theory something I've been tweeting for three years and and just sound like an ass or is there like some substance to this you think me it makes perfect sense there's so much more that goes into you can throw the ball 80 yards and make every possible throw but if you don't know when to make the throw or read the coverage like who cares you know mean so the the mental part of the quarterback position is is more important than anything you you don't have to throw the ball 100 miles an hour to be able to you know hit a hit a flat route based on the coverage that you're seeing or hit a check Down based on the coverage that you're seeing if you just know what you're looking at pre- snap and you confirm it post Snap you you can you get the ball out of your hands you know what I mean so there's so much more that goes into the quarterback position I don't think you know guys should be you know focus on all the armed Talent the mental thing is number one for me yeah I mean you look at I know Josh Allen still gets criticism of of decision but one of the best things he started to do was check the ball down we we used to play him early in his career and Bill would say to us don't guard the check down like nobody should be he's not going and we would watch Clips where he just he would buy time he would do he just wouldn't throw it to the back who would be wide open in the flat could get five to eight 10 yards just wouldn't do it then he started to be like all right if you're gonna play zone and stay back and try to keep me in the pocket I'm just gonna do this and we'll move the ball so I just think that's a big part of playing quarterback like any there's so many talented guys at the play quarterback because they can run fast they can throw the ball hard they have all the like special talent but can he play quarterback and that is yet to be seen like you have to watch a guy and figure out can he play quarterback CJ stra can play quarterback like that's he plays quarterback really well and I think we watched Patrick Mahomes that's the gift of him is you watch that quarterback documentary and he he throws an interception and right away he's like they're sitting on me he he like he knew it right away and he knew what the solution was that to me is yes he has all the other things that make him a whole another level but if he didn't have that aspect he would just be another talented guy so the reason I I brought that up was not to just use your time to just pedal my own theories and see if you can back them up or not it's to it's to note that in his analysis of Drake May during the Macy show draft spectacular Bill did exactly that makes all the throws didn't say anything about accuracy or decision- making which isn't to ask you what Bill thinks or what he feels or to ask you to speak for him but I'm just it it strikes me is curious because he also highlighted the inexperience which is just a fact like he's made 23 24 starts you need to see more in that but what do you what do you personally feel of a guy that's got that talent and sounds like Devin like the maturity process and the decision- making and James you brought this up first actually will be the checkdowns will that be a sign of progress for whatever you know about Drake May that he's making the right decision kind of resisting the urge to show off the arm which we all saw which Bill talked about and reinforces those weaknesses of okay he's willing to commit to the decision-making part of this even as a rookie who might be forced into a tough situation I I think you can learn it it's not something that you have to know completely right away I think that's a part of coaching and developing players and that's why I say I always lean to the direction of letting these guys sit and learn and like I said go against the first team defense throughout practice the entire year they're gonna be throwing all different sorts of things at you you learn to read all sorts of coverages blitzes chains and protections you get more comfortable with it it's it's not these guys don't have to walk into you know NFL building and and know everything if they do that's that's great you can help the team win Allah CJ stra that's a you know that's a one-off not many people are gonna walk in you know and take the league by storm I know everybody's expecting Caleb to do you know something like that he has a great situation around him maybe he will you know maybe he won't but for all these guys it's a learning curve it's you don't have to know it now you can you can fix the footwork you can fix you know reading coverages it's all about you know them learning and willing to go out there and you know embrace it like I said you can you can escape the pocket sometimes you can do all the fancy stuff you can throw 80 yards down the nothing wrong with that but how consistently can you get the coverage right and get the ball out of your hands you know in two seconds I think that's the the number one thing I would be interested too to see um what Bill said about the other quarterback because I didn't pay attention as closely but I felt like on on social media right away like as soon as the pick came in and he was like the guy Compares himself to Josh Allen I don't see that his foot workers I felt like everybody was like Bill hates Drake may he doesn't like I was like yo Bill's been criticizing every single draft pick he starts off and he says like one or two it it was a team meeting I was like he says a couple things they do well and then it was just like but if they don't do this do that they gotta do this so I just felt like he was very authentic and I loved it from a fan standpoint of I don't really know what I'm watching when I watch the quarterbacks like I I don't fully understand that so now as I watch these guys and I can try to remember back to what Bill said if I'm a fan of the Bears or I'm a fan of Washington or or New England and I'm watching these picks that we just got in the top three I now should be vividly remembering okay belich said his footwork sloppy all right the the commentator the broadcaster might show in a replay of like his toe is pointed the wrong way like dang Bill kind of said that hey Bill might have said about Jaden DS he'll have to figure out when to the ball and run when to stay in the pocket and oh man like I remember so that to me was a unique thing about having bill on there and not just saying this guy's great he does this he does actually going and having cut ups and film ready of this is what this guy does really well this is why he's the number one two three pick in the draft but this is also what this guy's going to need to do to be successful in the NFL um and I think that's what he kind of put out there for Drake may but I thought it was cool because he put it out there for every single player um that got drafted in whenever he had the cut UPS ready for him yeah and that's that's totally fair right like what does it matter if it's removed from the context you know this wasn't analysis in a vacuum it was specific to Drake may but it's within the context of a show if he was you know same balance negativity positivity with every Prospect well then that's just how he did it for everyone it wasn't unique to to to Drake uh it also speaks to the authenticity part right like I think you guys have both succeeded well in your your post playing careers because there are guys who just want to get up there and compliment their old teammates or coach are not you know they fall back on the old media training habits and bill was like no e it I'm going to tell you what I think that's that's why real look yeah and we care about what he thinks what he feels because he's the smartest guy in the room wherever he walks uh two quick ones though and I'll get you out of here speaking of the authenticity part I need a a just a good otaa story and this might be like not a scale of one to 10 because they're OTAs and they're not padded and might be like one to five so I'll take like a fine average but just one year of practice that made you laugh or someone stood out or okay this might be a problem just just something you remember around this time of year that ended up being a little more meaningful than you could have known at the time um I say for myself my rookie year I I remember when I first got to foxb I don't think there was Sun at all that entire OTAs it was just raining gray you know outside and and one of the practices was it was it was raining out there I was you know me and Shane I think a bunch of the backs were like banged up me and Shane were repping and all that stuff I I probably slipped during practice at least at least three or four times and and everybody that plays with Bill knows he he loves it when it's raining outside because you're going to if you slip you're going to be on the Highlight clips and I was I was on there in the team meeting at least like three times slipping all over I mean look you can't you're cutting on the outside edge of your inside foot you can't stand up you're no good on the ground we can't complete a pass so he he was ripping me and then like I vivly remember I think we might have been it might have been seven on seven like Tom was trying to complete a pass to jwes or something across the field and like Je slip trying to catch it he's like we got our two supposedly best players we can't complete a effing pass on air I mean what the you know like he just that type of thing can go to Fox High yeah it's just hilarious it just let me know early there everybody everybody's you know you know getting held accountable not just you know me as a rookie so that's that's one that's stuck with me don't don't slip when it's raining and you slip you will be on the low lights no matter what um for me I always thought you OTAs and stuff was like it was a good I always told guys it's a good beginning to learn and you should try to learn as much as possible because like what I always remember about OTAs is there's always a bunch of guys who dominate OTAs you guys write about them nonstop this guy is phenomenal and like I used always be like no one cares it's so irrelevant other than do you know what you're supposed to do so when real football starts you can go do that cuz like I watch guys come and train into OTAs and have some of the best OTAs and going to start this year and then second week in training camp it's like this guy's still on the team he hasn't done anything so um yeah I I thought OTAs was exactly what James explained earlier it was a great time to laugh and joke like I still remember uh might have been my rookie year to be done with mini cam OTAs all of that we come out and we do a relay race it's um it's uh Brandon dric Kyle love uh Vince and gerro Warren this is the the 4X 100 team and it's like you guys gotta run under I want to say maybe it's like 49 seconds for something like that and that will get us and we'll be done for practice and now you're sitting there you're like damn like how's this going to go and uh Gerard Warr we call them money money starts it off comes out the gate and I'm like oh big boys rolling big dude yeah gives it to dric dric runs and then the last two Kyle and Vince are like that's the where you're like I don't know and they get this baton and I mean love rolls and then Vince gets it and Vince just strides it out and they run like maybe two seconds fast faster than the time and everybody goes nuts we're done we're done for the spring off till training camp and like that to me was a cool just kind of introductory all right this is what the NFL is like great bonding time nobody really cares how many balls you caught or how many interceptions you got just come back and do it when real football starts but that to me was like James said if you could have a good session and a good spring it just carries you over into training camp it's a good feel about you you just didn't want to have too many days where Bill came in and was just like this is bad guys this is bad football we're dropping balls like you're gonna have some of those days but you just don't want a majority of those days going into training camp right yeah growth might not be linear but if overall the days you have more good days than bad you know you kind of trust trust that guy um is there a position because when you start thinking like this guy crushed OTAs and the media is ling up on him I first think of receivers now a defensive guy might say don't pay attention to the receiver but is that kind what you're talking about like it doesn't matter till they get jammed in the second week of practice I mean 2022 how many how many deep balls did we complete in practice in OT oh they're gonna throw the ball down the field this year this is gonna be electrifying I was like we're shorts and a t-shirt guys are making one-handed catches and and it was just like let's take it easy on these guys like let's guys are told and practice like let's not dive on receivers legs let's stay up and it's like we always get like three receivers Every Spring now are going to be like First Team all Pros yeah it's definitely receivers number one I'll tell you firsthand we had countless guys that show up during OTAs have a field day and then training camp comes around you have the the physical part of football gets implemented then they kind of disappear to make a play here or there and you know that's about it so yeah number one is the receiver that's their time to shine though during OTAs you can't touch them you know they throwing the ball 99% of the time so get a ton of opportunities to make plays yeah and those Twitchy Edge guys like Josh uch I think has seven sacks a day always laugh because those guys will be they'll all complain and I would tell them like you guys set the tempo if the defensive line slows down then offensive line will come I said you guys complain about each other and then you all go out there and you block each other and you rush like we're a full pads I said and then the head coach has to come in and literally tell everybody hey we got to take it easy I said the coach is telling y'all to take it easy that's not supposed to happen but and I think that's a newer thing when I first got in NFL OTAs were a joke for the line they they would take two steps three steps and just stop and that would be it and Vince would tell me he'd be like man these guys doing all that right now it don't matter we'll see what they do when I when I stick my hands in their throat I and that to me I was like that's a that's a real defensive line like he's telling you I don't care like Logan manin wasn't blocking people hard in OTAs when came he was killing you like that's that's the mentality of those guys that the rest of the stuff is nowadays is like all right the media's here today I want to make sure they write something good about me that's the difference I think everybody first mistake giving a crap about what we think but I uh I get it this sounds like permission for me to take a daquiri to my first like OTA practice just kind of sit back hey man you do what you got to do to keep getting those paychecks yeah man hard it's hard to evaluate honestly all right out on this real quick uh you know we talk a lot about Drake we talk about the receivers we're going to talk about all those players we just mentioned in OTAs because that's how that's the calendar that's that's what we do this time of year who's a player that each of you think for the Patriots not getting a lot of love now probably won't in the next month or two that has a real chance to kind of break out in a way that's genuinely surprising not 12th in the list of 20 players who could break out this year but like actually can do it and we're not really talking about that's that's tough T somebody that I think I know de God followed you around like a puppy for all of his rookie seasons and got hurt last year so we're not talking about him I do think he's one of the guys that you go you go you go first I I do I think Marcus Jones is the guy that kind of has been forgotten um even like I saw so many people like the Patriots should draft Cooper Dee because his returnability I'm like well Marcus Jones is like a like two years ago was you know he's a unbelievable returner was like second team or first team All Pro son I was like he's pretty good like he's going to be healthy this year so I just think I think it's going to be interesting how their Corner situation works out who starts opposite Gonzalez do they want Jon Jones to still play outside and is that free up Marcus Jones and now starting the slot um so he's a guy I've always been a fan of it I think he's one of those young guys that I could tell right away he was hurt he knew everything he was asking questions so you just knew like all right well we'll see when he gets out there and then when he got out there was like oh this guy's Twitchy he's fast and then once he got out there with pads on and Who could break out? you were like oh he likes tackling he's hitting people I was like oh this guy has a chance to be a pretty good football player so I am I'm excited to see him and I think the other guys I I want to see Doug take that next step to being one of the best players at his position in the league because I think I think between him and pep being there I think they're going to have they have a chance to have one of the best tandems in the league um they just got to continue to be consistent and we James talked about early I think those two guys have special abilities to have those plays that are like wow so I think if they could just can like just have a straight line of consistency and then the splash play consistent Splash play I think they have they make they have a chance to make their defense special just having those two guys be elite studs this year for him under the radar player for me I'm going go on a limb I'm sa my guy taquon thoron just because he's I know they have a very deep deep receiver room different body types but he's the one guy that's you know sets himself apart as far as the speed you got a new offensive coordinator you know new head coach and everything so you get a fresh start clean slate you know her he put on a put on a little weight you know my dog wasn't you know probably like 160 soaking wet he put on a few pounds so I want to see him come out here compete because he's he's not just fast he he has the quickness he can get in and out of his breaks that's something I tried to stress to him for the little bit of time I was there with them like dude like when you step in front of somebody like they're gonna your speed but you can get in and out of your Cuts you know you you not Tyreek Hill but you know you can get out in out of your Cuts well enough to you know threaten all these guys run any route you want so that'll be my under the radar guy guy who's not so under the radar I think Hunter Henry is gonna have a big year this year David and joku had a huge year like almost 900 yards last year under Alex velt so the the tight end position is gonna be used pretty heavily Hunter I know he got banged up some last year but he's he's a mismatch you know when he when he's on he's a a tough guy to stop he's a tough guy to bring down so I think he's a guy that'll have a big year for this offense and ta had a good game in 2021 against Cleveland yeah he touchdowns in that game I'm sure the coach seen that SO2 yeah right when KB got hurt at the start of that took that Jet Sweep that I think was for KB and then goes in he's um the official weight because I checked in on this the other day up to 188 so I don't think he's stepping in the ring anytime soon heavyweight division that's solid though for he he was slim man yeah up from like about 180 maybe even less after some of those training camp practices when guys quit now five six pounds a day uh but yeah we'll see I I like both those picks U not that you care about what that says but hunter Henry too people forget was like viable fantasy option the way he was scoring at the start of last year Philly Miami uh not against the Jets but as the season were on was just like Red Zone Target third down and was the only guy getting doubles until pop Douglas but uh yeah I think he'll bounce back I think are good picks and football will be here soon enough even if yeah uh it's a good question I might have to tease it for next episode no um that's Well Done by you I I think I'm gonna go Daniel qual uh people forget that he's a guy that like on a pnap basis is going to get his gets hurt last year contract year for him he's a bit older but like that inter pushed him and in barmore like I think with barmore getting more doubles he could get five six seven sacks this year I like it you see balore in the locker I'm telling us send me the Dior shirt that he wore I want a free Dior shirt you know what he's gonna be doing he's gonna be doing that Meme with just a stack of dollar bill can't hear you I'm not doing media today I'm just turning around it's g i can't hear you all right de mordy James White still the best even in retirement uh James drop the name of your podt anything you're doing Deon do the same afterward sir make sure you guys check out the money down podcast we on YouTube Spotify Apple podcast Twitter Instagram all that stuff got a giveaway going on right now for sign football so make sure y'all enter that now I'm on Big 10 Network as well and series XL yeah doing everything aing man right there and he's a husband and a father I'm not doing anything I'm just Daddy Day Care down in New Jersey coming that's what I'm about to go do right now pick up the kids from school well uh stop coming to Celtics games I saw you at game two the only game they lost to James Mi heat I promis James we wouldn't talk about the heat but that's all right man crap I was supposed to come home he invited me to the game you don't say no to rkk rkk invites you go that's true oh we gonna see you guys for Tom's uh celebration you think the the 12th yeah I'll be there all right cool we'll definitely be there yeah all right good we'll see you there thanks again guys still the best to see you all right wrapping up as we do once a week here with the mail fan Jordan boss is back still J tester yeah yep still in the dot excellent so Jordan uh has a question which as you know if you've been listening to this segment first of all he's asking that question because he donated to Boston Children's Hospital second of all I'm going to read him his own question then let him answer his own question and then I will uh go on from there and I think it's a good one because you dm' me actually last week and we ran out a time around the draft which tends to happen um but I think we the new one puts us looking forward in a manner that's not quite training camp but before we get to surprise Cuts you've got Patriots veterans who were on notice so you asked exactly that which Patriots veterans got put on notice after the draft and your answer would be what I mean I think it's a couple for sure I think you look at they attacked the quarterback room the receiver room and the offensive line and I think those positions are the most competitive positions on this team and I think those are the ones that are under under Fire right now so you look at it Juju Smith Shuster I just don't see him making the team at all I think that's just going to be you know I think they're look for a trade partner I think they're just going to cut him you know you look at all the videos and like Instagram stories that have come out the past like two three weeks about like um like like everyone like pop Douglas Osborne Kendrick Bourne like you don't see guju out there you know I mean I know he's older but like I don't know if you can even play anymore like that might even end up being like a retirement potentially but I think he's on the hot seat techan Thorton I mean it's a year three you got to put up some numbers but I don't think he's even going to get that opportunity um I think biley zappy I don't even want to say his name because that's such an obvious like you're just going to trade him for a seventh round pick in 2030 or something like that cuz you know Joe Milton's getting those third team reps Bailey Za let's sounded personal for a second like Bailey had dated an ex-girlfriend of yours I'm glad you PIV something it's the Bailey zappy fans it's just like come on now um like everyone that said like oh draft zappy or draft Marvin Harrison Jr and start zappy I'm like do you do you want to make everyone upset that was that was the thing I must have missed that sadly it was yeah it's like the Following part of Twitter where it's like not for you it's whatever um but I think it's I think it's zappy Juju Thor and then I think it's the guards I think it's everyone that bich drafted I know that you and Doug said this last week where it was like hey maybe Elliot wolf doesn't like um Mafi or um Jake Andrews Mail fan segment or maybe Cole strange they're like you know what you're just you've been under sized for the last three years and you're injured every year and we don't trust it so I think the guards I think guju taquan and I think zappy are the ones that are most likely to uh be on notice I think that's spot on and when you hone in specifically on the draft right seven out of those eight draft picks were on offense that means they're going to replace some guys who are currently on offense and I think you hit the right names Bailey Zapp is a trade candidate you've got five quarterbacks in there like that is as I wrote the other day violating some fire codes probably in jillette stadium uh Juju just doesn't make sense this is a team that's following the Packer way which mandates after you get younger you then play the kids and so even if that's not uh taquon thoron it'll be Jaylen PK or Jayvon Baker and then after them it would be a guy who's in his second or third year allaha tawon thoron not juu Smith Shuster who by all accounts is is pretty watched I will throw one more name in there uh specific to the offensive line because you hit the right ones Jake Andrews Tonio Mafia City sou Cole strange is another one to watch for me now obviously they would need a replacement at left guard but you'll remember that back in that 2022 draft all of us going WTF like that was one of the First episodes we had done in this podcast we all saw a left guard out of Chattanooga I don't know exactly who would replace him but Nick Leverett was one of their later signings in for agency again was a backup in Tampa Bay but if they feel comfortable enough this new regime with him that's basically not just a receiver a quarterback and an offensive lineman that's the whole 2022 draft around Marcus Jones was the only one left yeah it's it's something where it's like because I didn't think about this I was like why are they drafting more interior linemen we have enough of those guys and these guys doesn't they don't sound maybe Wallace but they don't sound like that they're projecting at a tackle position um like Laden Robinson doesn't sound like he's going to be a tackle um but then you're like well it's because Ellie wolf was probably in that draft room being like I cannot wait to get my shot because these guys are out the door so for me it's like you know what they're starting fresh which I really like I mean I would have loved them to get a number one wide receiver I feel like everyone's go get me IU get me one of these guys and I really want to know what that asking price was you know there's no way they wanted the third pick of the draft for one of these guys but I I really want one those guys but now that they're not getting that I think they pivoted to all right we're going to play the young guys and obvious that means Juju is out the door for sure yeah and and I looked on defense because I wanted to have a non-obvious answer for you but at some point when you're looking at a roster where you know in a couple months everyone on the beat is going to do their 53 men roster projections it's not going to quite be a circle on top of a circle but it'll be a v diagram where there's very little space on the outside as far as what I wrote versus what Mark Daniels wrote versus what you know anybody else in the beat wrote so it's interesting to kind of follow defensively though I would say again guys that you're targeting who might be a little bit older or at positions with better depth and they added Marcel style who I don't know if he's going to um necessarily play right away he's a six round pick most six round picks get cut but some of the backups near him you know Shawn Wade I think has run out of lives uh as the fifth corner on this team uh Alex Austin's in there but like how much pressure on a guy that you know knows he has to earn his job every single year anyway and then the linebacking core is what it is so it's it's difficult to find I think they've got the right pieces in place but your your your mindset is the right place it's guys on offense and then it's guys who are going to age out faster than not um and if they don't make a trade though as far as Juju or zappy goes I'll be fine with that so long as they meet kind of a roster cut deadline right like you can have more competition in Camp if JuJu's got anything might as well bring the best out of him or try to do that now or are you in a rush to deal either him or jaby yeah I mean I just I don't want to see ju guu on the field like cuz like you mentioned like this year they're not going to be successful this year I mean not on would you know but they're not going to be a team so I want to look at the end of this season and say all right Drake is the guy right or Drake is progressing or hey Pop had a great year to jump from his rookie season or what now hey Kendrick porn looks back or Javon Baker looks like a true you know Beast out there whatever it's gonna be so Juju is kind of pointless right you know it's almost like the Denver win last year it's like this was a pointless win this we got nothing from this like Juju on the field you know if if he scores a touchdown from jacobe brassette does that help the 2025 Patriots not even close it probably hurts him right so for me I want him out the door one thing I I was reading earlier today um I think they just signed Joey s kicker so maybe hoty Chad Ryland you know if you if you have another shaky Camp I'm just getting rid of you or you know pick the next guy that's in the uh USL or whatever the new XFL is called like pick the number one kicker from that league and bring him over so I think he might be on the hot not because of the draft just because you had a horrible last year and kickers are one of those it's like I always said kickers in the NFL are almost like fantasy defenses or kickers it's like you're going to take one or two and then after that just if someone's on a buy just replace them like it's ride the hot hand it's interesting too because Sly filled the last open roster spot they had and they have rookie mini camp coming up which just gets way into the weeds right like I think most football fans are washing their hands uh right now unless you have a dynasty draft or something and say I will see you in July when there's more football to be reported on an actual practices going on but I would say is those rookie mini camp are not just for the draft piics it's not for Drake May hey play catch with Jaylen pulk and Javon Baker it's for dudes like Once Upon a Time Malcolm Butler come take a flyer Gunnar oepi come take a flyer visit if you impress us you can get a roster spot and the Patriots at least now are confident enough that if that happens and again it does often enough where you keep extending these invites to other players who didn't get drafted or signed since that they would have to cut someone and of course being a team coming off of a 413 season like there are guys to cut but to me it it it expresses a confidence in the roster from the regime as it is now that that might be a little bit higher than what we have on the outside which doesn't mean they're right Patriots were more confident than most of us were on the outside even those of us who said they might go nine and eight 10 and seven uh but it's it's an optimism that I think they know and believe at least in their young guys so we just haven't seen a whole lot of and those are the guys we're going to see a lot more of going forward yeah and just preaching the the competition side of it that wolf and and Mayo have preached the past couple definitely last couple days I think ever since Mayo got here I think it's one of those things that kind of puts every every veteran on notice say hey like it's a competition it's not how much money you're making because think about it for the most part none of these guys got any money from mayo or Elliot wolf besides like unway new and Kyle Dugger so besides those guys they feel pretty good but you know um you know name any I mean Juju is a great example because he got paid and he's been horrible but like dvon Parker was one of those guys where it's like hey we didn't give you this contract we have no problem cutting you or trading you to the Eagles for a bag of balls so I think that competition line really kind of shows you hey like whether you're undrafted free agent seventh round pick to tight end whoever it's going to be like you have to work to make this team and get some playing time which I love all right one last note and we'll get you out of here and this is uh putting you on the spot a little bit is you know in day three of the draft Elliot wolf and Dad Mayo called and involved Drake May in a way that was like hey here's what we're thinking here's who we like what do you think which just shocked me like in back further into my sea than I ever expected because first of all of course that's as far away from belich roster building philosophy as you will find second of all may has not taken his snap yet and he's already being quote unquote involved to a small degree in these decisions so I would say Jordan as someone who is uh new on this podcast if you were to be involved in the roster making building decisions in this podcast of guests to come up who would you like to see as the Drake May to my alliot wolf and D Mayo come on as we build out this podcast guest in the next couple of weeks as I start to have a draft here uh further into the offseason I mean I mean it's a pretty long list you know you could go current players former players coaches whatever it's gonna be um for me I mean someone I know thick re you know Tom Brady know probably not gonna happen I would love to get I don't know what his name is it's the receivers assistant coach that came over from Washington I think he was quality control coach with Washington or maybe he's receivers coach yeah I love to get him on because not only is he going to tell us you know what does he want out of receivers but give us some jayen pulk you know background give me about his background so he's one of those guys where I'm like you had some influence on that pick with Jaylen pulk you're you're going to be here that's probably the the heaviest position that we're looking at like going into Camp we're looking at receivers like that's and obviously Drake may but like that connection is gonna be so important so I like to get him on let's see how let's see what he has to say I think Tyler Hughes would be honored to be on this podcast I've never spoken to him one-on-one in person he was not here last year he was a grunt in 2022 as a guy who's even met a head coach at the high school level and I think small uh college level but we will get to know Tyler he's a lot more I don't I don't expect he will be on but we uh we might make a phone call or two who knows it's a whole new era he's probably pretty free like you know I don't think he's gonna get the Tom Brady roast in a couple days so I think I think he'd be someone that you know would be one of those all right like let's see what you have to say kind of guys yeah all right Jordan thank you for donating to Boston Children's Hospital thank you for coming back on the podcast and thank you for uh participating here a couple questions one of yours and one of mine here as we wrap up another mail fan segment of course happy to be on a [Music]