KUMAIL NANJIANI: Career Changing Anxiety, Wrong Priorities & Marvel Disappointment

Intro [Music] you're listening to inside  of you with Michael rosenbalm you   like when I say bals I do I know that's  how you say it but you put an inflection   on it that is silly it's Michael Rosen  Bal how's that Michael Rosen Bal well   that's the real expression of it sounds  like you're doing a soundtrack for a porn great now I I guarantee Jason just put  porn music on there thanks Jason I know you   did that you're smiling cuz you did it uh thanks  for being here on another glorious Tuesday or   whenever you're listening to your podcast and and  thank you for making this podcast your choice your   choice I mean there's so many podcasts but you  know we've been around we're not one of those   podcasts that just jumped on the bandwagon we've  been doing this when we had no listeners and now   we have a loyal fan base and uh my patrons who  really support me and support the podcast they   get back to the podcast to make this podcast  possible um that's Patron pH at T n.com 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to and doing Smallville nights and  everything is on there U my rosy puppy fresh   breath uh dog breath additive you just add a  little to water tasteless odorless um it's on   there please check it out it's on Amazon and it  really works I love it I use it on my dogs and   so much more on the link Tree on my Instagram um  Camal Nani mhm this is his second time on and uh   this was recorded actually during the um strike  strike yeah uh Kamal is just uh such a great guy   and super talented and always so busy people  always want to work with this guy and when you   know him like I do you know we're not tight but  we're like we're friends he came over when I had   a party and um I love him I love his wife Emily I  think they're the sweetest Souls out there and he   deserves all the success he worked hard for it  and uh so we we get into a lot lot of his life   and um I thought it was a really good episode um  also if you want to go to sunspin my band sunspin   do.com support the band we're trying to make a new  album we do stag itss which are live performances   virtual um we might do one on December 10th  or not December 10th February 10th which is   a Saturday at 5:00 pm so I think we're going to  lock that in and you can go to Suns spin.com for   Merch which I have there's so much cool merch  there these Wicked hats and tumblers other   stuff too so check out sunspin dcom and without  further Ado let's get into my inside of my buddy   Kumail Nanjianai it's my point of view you're  listening to inside of you with Michael Rosen [Music] B inside of you with Michael Rosen  bomb was not recorded in front of a live   studio audience back then what you had to do  to get into premises was so you see like in   Weird Science they're just like we should have  a girlfriend let's make a girl on your computer   Kumail Nanjiani and then they just make it and that's it that's  the the premise that's the whole setup there's   no like breaking into a lab there's no lightning  strike or magical ambulet stories were simpler in   the ' 80s I mean just getting into it was like we  know you just want to get to it so let's just do   it it was also a different thing was like now  every story has to every character has to have   some like backstory about why they are the way  they are and it has to be allegorical yeah yeah   exactly everything has to be thematic and it's  also like this bad guy is not really a bad guy he   had a rough childhood like sometimes I don't care  I just want someone to be really [ __ ] evil and   that's it do you though do you not want to have  some like subtext some like backstory on the evil   guys so you like at least go okay because usually  they're just bad and I'm not always I don't always   want that I do want it sometimes but sometimes  like you know it's sort of this thing that became   like you know these horror icons that we grow up  grew up with like um all the big you know Jason   and all those guys who we love and then at some  point yeah Jason's next to me Freddy's up there   you know it sort of became at some point like well  well well how did they get this way what happened   to him like I ultimately I I don't really care  well if it's a I guess it's a it's it's a slasher   flick but think about it what if Michael M was  there a back story to Michael Myers really yeah   I mean sort of he he was in insane asylum Asylum  he's just the shape he's just evil so I actually   like that backstory cuz they're like no Halloween  the Rob Zombie ones had backstory on him he had a   [ __ ] up childhood whereas in the original one  you know Donald Pleasant is just like this thing   is evil and that's it and I thought that that was  cool it gives me more you know have my mind swim   around in whereas you know I think Rob Zombie is  a great filmmaker um he just he does what he does   sometimes feel like I don't need backstory on all  the you know yeah I agree Brian pain I think had a   really funny bit about about like Darth Vader's  backstory it's like I just want to eat the ice   cream I don't want to know like what you know the  the do we first we churn the butter or whatever   um I think there's a balance because I think with  some things having a bad guy who's a bad guy is   good but then sometimes I think this happens with  like notes you know we get notes from Studios and   stuff and it'll always be like well what what's  the bad guy's deal and then you spend all this   time making the bad guy's [ __ ] deal and then  suddenly you're like yeah focusing on something   that was never really part of your story doesn't  really care about it it's taking away from moving   the action forward yeah I understand sometimes you  just need an obstacle you just need an antagonist   you know like do you love horror movies yeah  I mean yeah Emily and I are both hardcore old   school since I was a little kid horror movie  fans um and we watch everything great stuff   bad stuff what's good uh did you see talk to me  that just came I liked it yeah I thought talk to   me was really good it was good yeah it was totally  good um I like the new evil dead too I Evil Dead   Rising you know I had fun with it yeah I had fun  with it those were Rarities though because there   aren't many good ones it's tough because I think  horror has become very popular and has become like   a money maker and whenever that happens it was  always like a niche you know and now it's sort   of the only thing that performs in theater is  it's superheroes and horror that really performs   in theater so now suddenly horror is getting  a little diluted when it used to really just   be a real expression of the filmmaker like some of  the stuff that Wes Craven did was like you know it   really felt like nobody but him could have made it  and now you watch a lot of the horror movies that   get big where you're like oh I could the process  that sort of dilutes other movies is now diluting   horror movies so I like when something like talk  to me comes out where it's like oh clearly these   two guys made this [ __ ] up movie yeah and it's  cool that look it's hard to come up with a really   cool concept something that hasn't been done  and also when you're dealing with the 70s and   80s you're dealing with no technology really no  cell phone so it's creepier people can't make the   call they can't go online they can't do all the  things so now you're really going well why didn't   he just do that yeah why didn't he just call them  dude I used to when I used to do a lot of standup   I'm back to doing standup now again but I used to  have a bit about that where it was like before you   go to the horror movie they have to have like oh  no I dropped my phone in Sprite you know everyone   everyone has to like I forgot to charge my phone  I'm yeah every horror movie in the First Act had   to be like I don't have any bars like that just be  we have to know that right away so we exactly yeah   it's hard you know like movies like The Hitcher  and stuff much harder to do now because it used   to you could go to the middle of the country and  there's nothing around and there's that one guy   chasing you what the [ __ ] do you do and I think  I think that sort of you know mystery and magical   nature of like those weird parts of the country  have kind of gone too with with the connection   and and all that um but you know you have this  poster of Bram Stoker's Dracula here and do you   see that it's signed by Gary Alman oh my [ __ ]  God I crossed the oceans of time to find what a   great line see what's great about that movie I had  watched it when I was a kid when it first came out   and I played the video game and I liked it but I  feel like I didn't get it and then in the video   game there's a video there Bram Stoker's Dracula  video game yeah they thought it was going to be   like this huge Blockbuster thing instead it's this  really [ __ ] weird idiosyncratic movie right so   they they had a video game for like it was for  the Genesis and I think they had it for the Sega   Gaming CD you play video games like crazy you still do it  I still do it does Emily hate it Emily loves it we   both play video games we both watch horror movies  we both play video games we both love it wow we're   playing Zelda right now Zelda yeah it's great you  mean back in the day Zelda it's there's a new one   there's a new Zelda yeah it's called Uh the tears  of the Kingdom um how many hours do you spend a   day on your video games it's pretty limited rarely  more than one hour um how do you really get into   a game only with one hour well that's the thing  but like on Saturday or Sunday we'll do a longer   session so you gotta that's the thing like Emily's  always like you have like a problem starting games   CU you know the first time you need to do like a  three-hour session to really get into it otherwise   you're just going to be bored yeah what what  are the great games right now I'm playing well   Bridging the horror and the thing you know they  just remade Resident Evil 4 and Dead Space they   like they look like brand new games and and uh  both both those games are [ __ ] fantastic are   they scary uh Dead Space is really really scary um  with Resident Evil you know it's more of an action   game and as like a real I'm getting real nerdy I  love Resident Evil because it was always about you   have three bullets and this you got to like you  are completely underpowered and then Resident Evil   4 made it an action game and suddenly you have  like a lot of bazookas and shotguns and suddenly   it's an action game and it's not as scary not as  Atmos feric and at the time I didn't like it cuz I   was like this is not my Resident Evil now playing  it again knowing what it is I really loved it wow   yeah I don't know how you have time to do anything  you're I mean since we talked last and it was it's   been years but you your career has just taken off  even more it's like well no it's it's just obvious   Untenable anxiety it's like you know the the uh Obi-Wan series and  eternals and Chi andales and and getting nomin   nominated and all these things and it's weird I  look at you and you came over the house like uh   a couple weeks ago or whatever and you just don't  feel now I don't know if you're a [ __ ] artist   or you're really good at playing I'm cool I'm  fine I'm not stressed but I mean even with the   I mean what how do you are do you stress out do  you freak out do you do you are you getting the   anxiety do you are you overwhelmed by now being  in you know really up there now with all these   opportunities it's that's an interesting question  I had I I do have anxiety and it's been an issue   for many many years and it's sort of it was a few  years ago actually where I realized like oh this   is untenable it's too much anxiety and there was  a few things I realized that I had Associated work   with stress and nerves and anxiety and it had  become like because of standup you know right   before you go to standup and that was the first  work I did you've done Stand Up N your heart's   beating and I used to smoke you know back then I  would just like smoke four cigarettes and drink   a Red Bull and then go on stage completely like  wired and so up and so I sort of associated that   body feeling with my work and it was really hard  for Emily and it was really hard for me and it   was really uh my work suffered and I realized it  was right before eternals actually where I was   like this is by far the biggest thing I've ever  done maybe the biggest thing I'll ever do this   is so important to me but if I'm like nervous or  anxious about this I'm going to choke the [ __ ]   out of it so I need to relax and so I started  seeing a therapist and learned the ways to like   really sort of let things go and I've realized  that when I'm relaxed I'm better at my job I'm   better at acting now I'm better at standup I'm a  better husband all that stuff so I've I meditate   every day um and I still have anxiety and stuff  you know but but i' I've especially those middle   of the night thoughts you know when you wake up  and you're sort of like what is this thing um I   had one last night yeah what was that I just I  you know I don't remember exactly what happened   but I had one of those dreams where people that  I don't like were still a big part of my life and   dictating what I do and sort of like it was just  and I don't know what that means but uh it was   almost like they were telling me something yeah  and uh I I don't know but I have I have some dark   dreams I I should write them down because they're  Clyde Barker [ __ ] sometimes I find at least for   me you know the way I can like interpret my dreams  and I don't I'm not one of those I don't believe   that they tell the future or anything like that  it's just like to me it's just a snapshot of your   subconscious to me whatever my biggest clue  to what my brain is trying to tell me is the   emotion I associate with the dream and the emotion  I associate with the people that are in the dream   Bagel dreams so for instance for a long time Emily and I you  know we've been married 16 years now we have a   cat she's 15 so she's been what how old's the cat  15 I mean what's the name I meant bagel bagel is   your cat yeah now what last name do you use Nani  uh we use Gordon Gordon at the vet Bagel Gordon   Bagel Gordon Bagel Gordon Bagel Gordon yeah  but she's been with us the whole time and I   for a long time if I had a dream about her being  in distress something happened to her or she's   missing or me worrying about her that was about  my relationship with Emily it was about some I   realized the feelings associated with that and  it always seemed to coincide with when you know   Emily had and I had an issue we were dealing with  or something so I realized that it was about that   since then you know more recently she's an older  cat she's had some health problems so now I had   a dream last night that she wasn't doing well and  that now that really is just about her inside of   Wondery you is brought to you by wry even the Royals being  a king or queen might seem enticing but more often   than not it comes at the expense of everything  else like your freedom your privacy and sometimes   even your head the creators of Wes even the rich  are bringing you a brand new podcast called even   the Royals where host Brook and Arisha pull back  the curtain on royal families past and present   from all over the world and they show you the  darker side of what it means to be royalty from   stories about one of the most infamous Royals in  history Marie Antoinette but everything you know   about her is wrong after she became Queen at just  19 years old she ended up in a battle with the   French press that started a series of impossible  toel events it's History's Greatest smear campaign   and it had deadly consequences or 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given a therapist if you don't  like your therapist you change your therapist easy   just like that sometimes you don't like your  therapist it doesn't it's not a right fit you   just change it no charge it's so easy you know a  common misconception about relationships is that   they have to be easy to be right but sometimes  the best ones happen when both people put in the   work to make them great therapy can be a place  to work through the challenges you face in all   of your relationships whether your friends work  your significant other yourself or anyone uh you   know this happened with me I had some friends  that were sort of bringing me down and I didn't   realize it and through therapy I realized wait  a minute this isn't good how do I how do I uh   fix this problem and with someone with a trained  professional I was able to really figure things   out that I wouldn't have thought of myself therapy  is so helpful for learning positive coping skills   and how to set boundaries 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to talk  about and then I think even she was bored like   just like I've done that I did this once with a  therapist it was about 40 minutes and I go all   right well my time's up yeah so uh thank you you  schedule something else looking at the although   dude I had another session that I I sort of you  know I started doing standup again and it sort   of opened up some interesting old patterns for me  that we can get into if you want to but it's sort   of like uh regarding anxiety and so I was like I  need to have like two or three sessions with you   in a row because I need to figure out what's  going on and so the last session of that we   were just talking about it and I was sort sort of  talking about the strike and how it can't work so   I've had to do stand up and she's like describe  yourself without using your profession or your   work or what you do and I had a panic attack  I was like she's like what are you if you're   not like an actor comedian writer I was like I  I don't know it that's that's weird yeah right   so you can't associate yourself other than who  like who you are is what you do I yeah man you   don't have that issue I I really I mean yes I  mean to a point but I've been working on it for   like five years where I just I kind of like took  a break from acting and I'm I'm starting to get   the bug back yeah because I've my anxiety is at a  better much better level and I'm working on a lot   of things but um I think it was always about that  I think it was always about you know cuz people   think they say oh what are you doing and you  have you're compelled to say oh well I've done   them I'm doing I'm doing that nothing is coming to  fruition but I got a lot of lot of lot of pant I   got a lot of things to stir SP a lot of plates a  lot of plates spinning but then I'm like because   I felt like they needed to know I was important  maybe or I felt like I needed to be important and   it's and really it's about you know what people  say what are you doing now I go you know what I   swear to God this is what I say now I go I'm just  trying to have fun yeah and when I say that yeah   it means fun with everything I'm trying to have  fun with work I'm trying to have fun I want to   be present and fun with you I want to be present  and fun with my friends I want to be present and   fun when I'm writing and if you know I'm thinking  well what if they hire a different uh you know uh   Rider and fire me I'm like I can't control that  that's the future just have fun do what you can   and whatever happens happens dude that is I'm  trying I'm trying that's the key to everything   and and I'm trying too I mean you bring up anxiety  and I you know for me anxiety is it's a constant I   don't want to say battle because it's not a battle  but it is a constant thing that you have to work   on like it's not like and now I have no anxiety  yeah anxiety comes back you need to know how to   how to understand how to see it understand it and  and and deal with it but that [ __ ] what you said   about control is so true because for a long time  I mean the last few years of my career when I had   a lot more opportunities I found myself you know  it was it was after the big sick and then suddenly   you know I was getting offers and I had never  gotten that I had fought to get like one scene   in a movie and suddenly I had all this stuff and  I realized that the way I was evaluating what I   Misaligned priorities + Eternals wanted to do and what I didn't want to do was all  completely messed up I was looking at like okay   if I do this this movie is going to come out in  theaters it's going to be a big hit then I'll get   more I was always results based on my decision  making um for those like three years or so um   and then I realized you know I did stuff that  should have been a home run and then it wasn't   like eternals you know it's it's it was it was  uh Oscar winning director the one of the craziest   casts you know you had like Legends you had Salma  haak you had Angelina Julie you had new people   who are amazing Brian Tyreek Henry Barry kyogen  who have both been nominated for you thought it   was just a slam dunk I was like this is going to  be a slam dunk and it'll be great it'll open all   the stuff for me and going into it was great for  me cuz I was like I need to have fun doing this   movie and so I just and I did and I was like I  understand this movie In My Bones I understand   superheroes I understand sci-fi I understand  like sci-fi epics and so I had the best time   doing that movie and I realized this is what work  should feel like however when that movie came out   and the reviews weren't good that was very very  tough for me and I realized that too much of how   I'm evaluating what I want to do is based on the  result what other people think of it me too my   whole life was that I I remember going you know  doing a movie and saying oh these people aren it   like you said and you know it's it's a big studio  and I remember even being so obsessive is that   the right word I think with with each scene going  okay this scene I was really good in that's that   that's good that's going to be good this scene  you know I think I was good in that I think in   like evaluating every scene yeah like that scene  I wasn't quite but I think it'll be okay cuz the   one before I was good in the one after I was good  so they'll Bridget yeah and then you know they'll   see this and then this this should you know I  should be all projecting all the stuff that I   my therapist says if you can't control it if you  can't change it shove it yeah shove the [ __ ]   just and what you're saying is enjoying the ride  yes one of my friends said um he had a movie that   bombed I mean Rosen bombed and he said um I go how  do you feel about it he goes well I thought about   it like this if I was the young me and somebody  says you're going to be the lead actor in a movie   and you're going to direct the movie yeah would  you even be thinking about and you're going to   make money yeah oh I me you wouldn't be thinking  about anything but just like this is great this   is fun and there were moments on set where I was  having fun and enjoying in the moment but we we   can't control that and the more I try to enjoy  what I'm doing the process yeah it it makes life   so much easier it does and it but it is a constant  you have to be intentional about it you know so   Relationship with Dave Bautista now I'm trying to make decisions about what I  do based on like oh I love this actor this is a   small movie but I love this actor I want to learn  from them I want to watch how this guy works so   I'm going to do this movie it movie may be great  it may not be great it may be a hit it may not be   a hit but I know that experience of working with  this guy is going to be phenomenal like I did this   movie stuber years and years ago didn't do well  but I met Dave Batista and we're still like really   really good friends and it was worth doing that  movie from just like that connection I made you   know boy he's blown up huh I love it too I text  him I'm like I'm so damn proud of cuz I remember   having convers ation even on the pockets he's  been on a couple times and you know when I saw   Guardians he was on Smallville years ago I did not  know that's how we met and um one time I was at a   a convention and there was an announcement Michael  rosenbom Michael rosenbom can you please go to the   back somewhere and I go yeah I'm about to leave  on a plane what what's going on they go hey Dave   Bautista really wants to say hello to you and I  go uh okay and I went over and Dave's he's at a   little private table or whatever in the back he's  doing like a private signing or something I can't   remember but y Dave are you sure you you want to  see me yeah cuz I didn't really he goes you didn't   remember yeah man I heard you were here and uh  you were always just so nice on set and I just   remember you're such a really good guy and I just  wanted to say hi Oh man and I just go I love you   yeah I love you wow and then I saw him I think  it was before that when I saw him in Guardians   and it was really Guardians to his performance I  said this guy's special yeah he's not just some   wrestler who became an actor he is working on it  then I saw him in knock at the cabin best part of   the movie was him yeah like he is consistently  working and he's you know he works hard and I   just I love it I love seeing his success I mean  I saw you know what I sort of learn I'm always   like if I get to work with amazing people what's  my like takeaway and there can be many and with   him it was like oh working hard is cool you know  what I mean like as a standup you know that's how   I started the whole thing of standup at least the  way we talked about it was like working hard isn't   cool you have to like it has to be effortly it has  to be whatever I don't care that sort of attitude   was pretty big then when I was starting out and  that sort of seeped into it even though I think   in my bones I'm a very hard worker but I didn't  want to present as that but with Dave and the way   he talks about acting in interviews I was was like  no I'm a hard worker and I like talking about my   work and I like talking about how hard I work like  I really [ __ ] love doing this and I want to give   it my best shot and so working with Dave I really  learned that he's so good in um a Blade Runner   too which I think is I didn't see that oh my do  you like the original one people are mixed on it   okay I'm not really a Blade Runner fan I mean it  looks amazing but I'm like H it's kind of boring   see I have a lot of patience for like uh like the  original Dune you probably liked yeah I mean the   original Dune is a wild movie there's like you  remember there's like a huge I haven't read the   books but there's like a huge brain fish in it  that's like [ __ ] weird looking and I was like   wow why is that not in the new movie and they're  like oh David Lynch made that out that that wasn't   in the book that's not in the book and it's like  one of the best parts of the movies is huge crazy   Spina Joe our friend Joe Spina he loves do the  original J like you're an idiot you don't know   know what you're talking about that's it I read I  read the book I I I this the original is brilliant   I like I like the new one yeah I think the new  one's fantastic but the Blade Runner you know I   have a lot of room for like ponderous s he sci-fi  so the original Blade Runner I love it because no   movie to me feels like that there's like a couple  emotional beats in it like when ruar Howard's   giving his like uh speech about as he's dying cuz  the whole thing is like are these replicants human   or not and then he gives the speech about all the  things he's seen before he's dying and you're like   oh that answers that question they can they can  feel they're human I'm getting emotional thinking   about it in high school I could I could recite  that whole speech cuz I thought that that would   get me laid and it did it doesn't work doesn't  work it does not work but the new one I think   what it does I'll watch it it takes that world and  it gives it a real like narrative drive like what   you're saying the first one you found boring I get  that it's very much like a tone poem but the new   one has a mystery uh at the center it really works  the story really works it looks beautiful Harrison   Reflecting on Marvel flop Ford's great in it Ryan Gosling's great in it  Batista's in one scene he's great in it it's I   think it's a phenomenal movie when you talk about  eternals and it wasn't the response that you were   hoping how did that affect you did it really  consume you for a while did it something you   had to get counseling on is it something where you  took it to heart like was it was it me was it what   was this I knew it wasn't me um I think that there  were a lot of things that went into it I love that   movie I'm very proud of that movie I'm proud of  everyone's work in it and and I'm proud of my work   in it and I've seen that movie you know um I've  seen it a bunch of times because it's like my kind   of movie um and I don't watch stuff I'm in a lot  and a lot of stuff I'm in I've I've never watched   um it was really really hard because uh Marvel  thought thought that movie was going to be like   really really well reviewed and so they lifted  the Embargo really early and they also put it in   some fancy movie festivals and they sent us on a  big like Global tour promoting the movie um right   as the Embargo was lifted and so we had to like  sort of travel the world while they thought we'd   be going on a wave of raves you know and it wasn't  true it just sort of was the reviews were really   bad and you were aware of it while you were on  tour yeah I was too aware of it I was too aware of   it I was reading every review I was checking too  much because this thing had become too much in my   head because this was also after right after the  pandemic you know so we're coming out after this   crazy thing and I'm like okay this is going to be  the coming out party I worked so hard for this and   everything's heightened your anxiety and life  everything's kind of like and now this happens   everything everything's heightened and um I don't  know I mean I think that there was some weird soup   in the atmosphere for why that movie got slammed  so much and I think not very much of it has to   do with the actual quality of the movie anyway it  was really really hard and that's when I was like   this is unfair to me it's unfair to Emily I can't  approach my work this way anymore some shit's got   to change and so very intentionally I did start  counseling I I I talked to I still talk to my   therapist about that I would Emily says that you  know obvious that that that I do have Trauma from   it I actually Emily and I just got dinner with  someone else from that movie and we were like man   that was tough wasn't it he's like yeah that was  really tough I think we all went through something   kind of similar and then this guy that I'm talking  about is has is like truly one of the best actors   of Our Generation and has been nominated for an  Oscar since then um so I realized I can't be so   results based in my in my work anymore cuz I can't  really control it I can control my experience I   can control how I am to the people around me I  can control what I learn from it I can control   how I work can't control what people are going to  think of it no inside of you is brought to you by   Discover discover if you like using debit over credit don't  you think it's time you also get rewarded well now   you can with discover cashback debit it's a  checking account that rewards everyone with   cash back on everyday purchases plus there are no  fees period we're talking date nights thrifting   the latest trends nights out with your friends  and it's now earning you cash back with discover   cashback debit check out eligibility and terms at  discover.com slashback debit Discover Bank member   FDIC I I um on a smaller level uh you know it  was it was one of my first probably it was my   first movie really and it was called Midnight in  the Garden of Good and Evil and it was with Clint   Ewood and I played one I had two scenes but one  was C I had one big scene is that John cack yeah   I had like a seven minute scene in the courtroom  and I really love my performance and I really like   the movie and the script was a bestseller John  Baron um I think that was right that was a big   movie but it it bombed and I was like how am I in  one of the only Clint Eastwood movies to bomb how   am I out of all his movies like this would have  been a huge success more people and and it just   but a few a few casting people saw the movie and  said I like this kid and it it helped me out in   ways but you know I was like oh and then you know  I did many movies that I thought were going to be   and then they buried us or at the same weekend  came other movies out and then then I look back   and I go I really love that movie and I really  enjoyed doing it and the process was really fun   and and that's what you got to like you can't  predict success no all you can do is strive for   it all you can do is enjoy it yeah you really have  to enjoy it we get to live our dreams I mean it's   it's can you living our dreams we really are  and I know it's a tough industry and there's   a lot of [ __ ] up about it and a lot of it is  based on how well things are doing and how well   things aren't doing but you can't control that  and just be happy for the opportunities you have   Chip on shoulder career dysmorphia I mean this all I say this it's still a struggle  you know I talk to my therapist about it a lot   I talked to Emily about it a lot and does she go  oh come on C I mean says I have career dysmorphia   which I think is probably a little bit true um so  I still have like that thing of like the underdog   like I'll show them I'll show them what I got yeah  we all have that now that's healthy I think it is   healthy I think that's a good thing well part of  the thing for me that I have to a little bit what   the chip on my shoulder about that specific thing  is I'm a brown guy who's a comedy guy and so it's   very easy to get put into a certain kind of box  and then when you change the Box suddenly you're   in a different box and you're like no the point  is I don't want to be I want to do [ __ ] that I   that like really I want to really challenge myself  and learn and do [ __ ] I've never done before and   it's hard because in this business for the most  part you are looking for other people to like see   that in you to give you that shot validate you and  kind of give you yeah yeah give you that shot you   know and so um to me that's that I just want to  be like all right what can I do now that's like   totally different from anything I've done before  or what can I do combines a bunch of things that   I've been learning the last few years in a new  way yeah so I'm always that's sort of how I try   and make my decisions well I think some people are  you know they do a part and you know they're good   at that part and they continue to do stuff like  that and they don't have a big range and they get   stuck sort of you know but with you I think after  you obviously proven yourself dramatically and   comically comedically not comically comedically  really I'm not an English guy sometimes comically   sometimes comically You' really done a good job uh  yeah but I was thinking about this when you're you   know striving to be a comedian and going up every  night and putting yourself out there did you ever   seriously think in the back of your head whether  it's ego or drive or aspirations or perspirations   From standup to acting like that you wanted to become a serious actor  that you going to be a serious actor not at all I   didn't want to be an actor at all I kind of fell  into it I think what helped me when I was doing   standup was I never had a big plan in mind it  was always just like the next step is what I was   looking for so when I was doing open mics I was  like I want to be booked on a show and when I was   booked on a show I was like oh I want to be booked  on the road outside of Chicago and when I did that   I was like well I don't want to host I want to  feature now I want to go from doing 10 minutes to   20 minutes see but that's Health you look at that  back then you were going from step to step you   weren't jumping steps exactly I want to be huge  I want to have my own Netflix show and there were   certainly people who thought like that and then  who did get that you know but I never had a Grand   Vision I just love doing standup and I wanted to  write funny jokes and I wanted to do well and each   time try and like take a little bit step forward  and it sort of hurt me a little bit because I   started I was in Chicago for six years which is  too long I should have I mean I'm it's fine now   but I should have stayed there two or three years  but because I was just I sort of got stuck in a   rut a little bit and part of it was because I  didn't have a any kind of like Grand aspiration   so I sort of fell into it I fell into acting but  when I look back you know my favorite like um like   Robin Williams is one of my favorites right and  who's funnier than him and who's I don't think   there's there's any I can't think of a standup  comedian who's pivoted to Serious acting um as   successfully as he has while still doing comedy  like he was kind of going back and forth but his   like series performances are so good and so varied  you know so as in my uncle always says Robin   Williams puts on a beard when he's serious yeah  good he puts on that Goodwill Hunting beard put   the Goodwill Hunting beard on you're serious but  go ahead there's a monologue he has in it where   he's talking to um Matt Damon you see go ahead  you're you can do Impressions I don't do Robin   Williams but I'd like to I could hear I could see  you I could see his mannerisms I bet if I worked   it I could do it go ahead some people have the ear  for it and you I could do a lot of Impressions but   When comedians play drama not I don't I've never tried oh that thing um yeah  um yeah he gives this monologue about you know   it's a f very famous one when he's in the park and  he's talking to Good Will Hunting and he's sort of   like you know you know all these things like youve  read Shakespeare but you've never been in a war   you've never seen your buddy like Die In Your Arms  you could like quote sonnets about love but you've   never watched your loved one die of cancer I'm  getting emotional talking about it oh wow is this   really like it's like a seven minute monologue and  the first five minutes are just on Robin Williams   face see how that affects I could see the tears  in your eyes that really still lingers with you   that performance you just channeled it God it's  so openhearted that performance and and what it's   it's it's yeah it's hardly a performance because  it just feels like he's just telling the truth oh   and it's so magical and it's so interesting cuz  he can do that which is very natural and very   like openhearted and then he can also do Genie  and Aladdin which is very much a performance   yeah it's so it's he's brilliant he really is  brilliant I think one that you compare to but   I uh a lot of people will say I'm kind of weird  is Jim Carrey yeah Jim car at times there's been   moments in Jim car's career that I'm like wow yeah  that was pretty impressive well Jim Carrie I think   when he was in his like Comedy Zone I don't think  there was ever been any comedic actor who's beaten   that when he was like you know the Ace Ventura  the mask I saw the mask again recently hold up   yeah and you forget that it's mostly just him in  a green in a green like in green makeup it feels   CG but you're watching you're like oh no he's  just doing that he's moving his body like that   he's unbelievable obviously the special effect the  best physical comedian there ever was I mean you   think of uh who's the you know Buster Keaton and  and Charlie Chaplan but like so different right   they're so understated yes oh they're brilliant  they're they're about the tension between their   body and their face whereas Jim car is really the  whole thing andity and then Eternal Sunshine is   such a magical one of those perfect how about uh  what What's the other one uh where he plays cman   oh man on the moon I've never seen that oh I love  man on the moon did you see that no you don't have   a mic sorry um but you were going back to um you  know the comedian and being a comedian and taking   everything step by step and like being this so you  never had that in your mind to be a serious actor   when did you realize and you there was a moment  where you realized I'm good I'm really good well   something's happening I'm good I don't know I feel  I'm trying to I mean I still don't have I mean you   know I really feel like I'm I'm learning I really  am learning and I can feel I know the things that   I I don't know that's a hard question to answer do  you know you're good at least do you go you know I   I I know I'm good without being ego like people  tell you but you go I must be doing something   right obviously I do know and I know when I'm good  and I know when I'm not quite as good and and even   if other people can't tell I can tell and I know  I can do more that I haven't shown yet and that   I haven't learned yet like I will sometimes I'll  watch a movie and I'll watch like a really really   great performance you know and I'll be like I want  to be able to do that I think I could I'd have to   work and really you know but I'm like I that I  want to try and do that I've done that where I   look at someone and I go there's three ways maybe  two I'm just spit allall in here but the first way   is first thing is I see some performance and I go  I could never do that I totally that is absolutely   Beyond the realm of my capabilities a lot of like  Jim Cary Robin Williams those like comedic perform   just certain performances that like yeah exactly  and then there's sometimes where I go I could I   could do that yeah I could really do that like  I'll be honest with you um it's not that I would   be better it's not that I would you know for  instance breaking bad but okay to say that you   would be better no but Breaking Bad Brian Cranston  I watch and I go he's [ __ ] phenomenal could I do   better no could I play a part like that [ __ ]  yeah how awesome is that I would [ __ ] love to   play that the ju's the position of good and bad  and like yeah and just kind of comical at times   and stuff I would [ __ ] I know I could do that  I know from the work I put in in my life I could   do it and what a great feeling but I'm not saying  I'm better than him or anything I'm just saying I   could play a part like that yeah you know what I  mean yeah and that's how you feel right um yeah   sometimes you know the hardest one and this is  me being petty is when you watch a big thing and   someone in a big thing and you're like I could  be better than that yeah yeah oh yeah oh yeah   and I'm not talking actors at the level of Brian  Cranston you know no but I do that but I go like   this I go I could [ __ ] I could do so much better  than this dude and then I go but he's so much   better looking than I mean that's usually that's  what I usually say that's part of it isn't it so   much hotter there's also actors who I find like  I certainly have my opinion on actors and acting   and and there are certain actors where I'm like  um everyone loves them and I'm like I could see   all the choices you're making I could like with  that I can see your script right now and what   notes you've written on the side you Circle that  yeah and I could see every like pivot you're doing   to me the real magic which I aspire to is the I  don't know how that happened and I I think there   was like maybe one take where you did that or  or someone like Jack Nicholson who could do take   after take from what you read that is just as good  and when you watch it there's no seams there's no   like decisions or choices it's him just living  expressing I think that comes back to what you   said before to be able to be really relaxed and  confident in what you're doing knowing that you   can do it and just being because there are actors  who I call mirror actors who look in the mirror oh   The enjoyment of playing on set the night before and do the scene to the Mirror  and this is the one way and the only way they're   going to do it not taking account in account the  other people because acting is listening so when   you're talking to an actor your response could be  different every time depending on how they respond   to you like I'm responding to you that's all of it  that's that to me is all of acting and you have to   be prepared to be malleable yeah you must be uh  present like I'm trying to do in life but I've   worked with actors I've worked with both kinds of  actors I've worked with actors who are in a bubble   where you start working with them and you're like  oh you've decided you've got some Target you're   trying to hit and each take you're trying to hit  that Target and I see what decisions you're making   between takes and I'm also seeing what notes  you're getting and how you're taking those notes   you know um those actors sometimes when you watch  them you know most people can't tell there's big   actors who work like that big very successful  actors but when you're working with them it's   not that exciting what is really exciting is when  you like I don't know what you're going to do but   it's going to change what I'm going to do and  that's going to change what you're going to do   and every take's going to be different when we did  the big sick worked with Holly Hunter right who's   like one of the greats one of the greats every  take all 28 Days of our shoot or 26 Days of our   shoot no it was like a five-week shoot every take  was completely different there's a big scene in   it where her and Ray Romano who plays her husband  have this big argument in the hospital and it's   like everyone's got to be there you know yeah  every they're like they can't like really yell   at each other it's in the waiting room right it's  in the waiting room yeah one thing was interesting   was they so her and Ray rehears that on set and  they'd rehearsed already on their own 14 times   cuz they're blocking it as they're going and I'm  also a producer on the movie so I'm like [ __ ]   we're going to go to lunch what are we going to do  so 14 takes we do uh 14 rehearsals literally and   then Holly's like all right let's shoot cuz the  whole time we're like let's [ __ ] shoot you guys   are so good let's shoot okay let's shoot and the  ad0 goes rolling and She lays down on the floor of   this hospital that's a real hospital and closes  her eyes and everyone's just like silently like   looking at this it's completely quiet and she's  just laying in the middle of the like holy [ __ ]   what is she doing what is going on and I guess  the and then the ID is like cut I guess and for   like 5 minutes She lays there completely still and  then she wakes up and she's like all right let's   shoot and then they do three takes each take is  completely different and she crushes it and Ray   crushes it and it's great and three we make our we  make our day you know and then wow that was like   one of the first days of shooting so then a week  later now I've gotten to know her we're shooting   the scene in the middle of the night where we have  to eat and I was like I got to ask you when you   lay down in the middle of the floor what were  you doing and she said I was just relaxing she   was just forgetting everything you know what  I think that's so important I don't think we   tell ourselves or allow ourselves to relax before  things we all intense camera's rolling uh makeup   there all right makeup out you got to take your  moment yeah you take it actor's ready give me   give me give me a minute please yeah take your  moment get in the zone breathe do whatever it   takes I remember Quinton Tarantino I watched this  interview and I don't think anybody else has ever   seen this interview but it was like it was on TV  and he goes the the interviewer says what do you   like with actors what do you what kind of advice  would you give actors or something he goes up   excuse me could you could you uh zoom in you zoom  in my face and the camera guy Zooms in on him he   goes listen you guys don't know how much power you  have in an audition it's your time you guys it's   yours you're bringing whatever it is and he goes  off on this thing it's like this is and he filled   me with confidence like this is you this is your  power this is your time to shine you do what you   want yeah and you know and he goes on about that  and I was just like holy [ __ ] like when you can   actually relax and and you're more capable I think  of doing the things you want to do you really are   Welcome to Chippendales and I had this the stup two two things one little  quick thing when I was doing Chi andales you know   I was working with Anna Ashford who's like one  of the best actors I've ever worked with and   every take is different and exciting I love that  there's a part where we have this fight with each   other and after a few takes I was kind of just  feeling a little bit stuck and I didn't know   what to do and she's so good and I was feeling a  little bit stuck and I was like all right I'm just   going to in between takes I'm just going to touch  this table and I'm just going to really feel what   this table feels like I touched the table and  I almost started crying cuz I had like sort of   gotten locked down or stuck or whatever and in my  head and you just really like that got me present   immediately yeah the other thing I've noticed is  you know I've started doing standup again during   these strikes so I've been doing it about a month  and a half now and um it's interesting cuz I've   learned cuz I had never learned to relax during  standup it was always like really tight and go   and I was found myself defaulting into that mode  when I started doing standup again because it's   the same like uh body memory you know you're like  walk out the feeling of the mic looking at all the   people with anticipation the clap the the the the  the Clapping going down you're like feel little   bit of sweat on your temple what does that mean  I'm going to pass out all that stuff yeah and I   this last week and a half you know I do the alt  shows I do Largo and those crowds know me and I   can sort of be very loose and it's fun but I've  also been doing the club so I've been done the   Hollywood improv and have done The Comedy Store a  whole bunch and those places they really want you   to do tight jokes and they really are uh you know  it's a lot of tourists and stuff so you really got   to go and hit them and so I said all right when I  do these clubs I would get so [ __ ] nervous and I   was like I'm just not going to be nervous and I'm  going to meditate right before I go on stage so   it's the opposite instead of going out being like  I got to grab him by the throat and kill it's the   opposite I'm not going to kill I'm just going to  go on stage and be completely relaxed and see what   happens you're like a python yeah just slowly  slowly kill him slow and it's the reaction has   been so much better for the first time at like  The Comedy Store I've I've been like I've been   having like great sets cuz I go out and I'm like  all right let's see let's see how this goes and   really lean back and it's been really it's been a  great lesson in exactly what you're saying which   is like relaxing look at what that says there just  relax look at that yeah look perfect that's your   What makes you happy Vantage Point is perfect Vantage Point remember  that what makes you happy what makes me happy   that's a big answer but really the thing I love  doing most is spending time with Emily me and   her a come on you made me cry now genuinely like  at home watching movies playing video games or   what I really love is me and her are going to a  restaurant like and just eating and just having   a Just the Two of Us for hours that's my favorite  thing to do I I honestly I'm not just saying this   I love her she's the greatest I love her I really  get to hang out with her the first time at James's   wedding James gun's wedding name drop but and then  just hanging out with her here she's just so funny   she and she's so genuine it's like unbelievable  she just the you know I it's amazing how like   it's 16 years and you guys been together it's not  amazing because I see you together and it's just   like what I see is that you each you you both  just let each other have their moment and just   do their thing and just let them be who they are  she's one of those magic people like truly and   and I say that to her and she's like oh you just  love me I'm like I do love you but everyone else   sees it too yeah people see she has that thing  where people immediately connect with her and   she's so [ __ ] funny she'll just say things that  I'm like or she'll say something really profound   and I'm like Poetic I'm like where's that from  she's like oh I just said it I'm like write that   down so she has a document of just stuff she just  randomly says to me that I'm like write that down   cuz she just has she was a therapist you know so  she has this like she understands people and loves   people so much and it's also just really funny  and really insightful and she's one of those one   of those people I I got a book idea for you it's  called Emily writes stuff down and it's a book   of all the things she's written down over the  years profound poignant funny ridiculous yeah   you know I'm trying to think what she said just  yesterday that I was like that's like two words   but I think there's no better combination of two  words in this context that right now I'd have to   like look through my text but she's just so I'll  be like what what's what is you is that is that   you know who quoted that I'm like I I just said  it is that anything I'm like yeah that's like   the coolest thing I've heard in weeks you know  it sounds like uh we talk about listening is   the most important thing obviously in acting yeah  but I I I I'm not married I'm single I'm you know   I'm figuring it out just that's all I'll say  but would you say that that's the number one   thing in a marriage to keep it healthy it's the  hardest it's the it's going to sound the most Pat   and the most like but the the most like cliche  communication there is nothing listening and and   telling each other what's really going on inside  that's the most important thing genuinely because   for a long time I would keep stuff from her like  I mean like I have a job coming up I'm scared I'm   nervous what if I can't do this what if I'm not  good enough I just keep that inside cuz if I say   it it becomes real I found if I just say it to her  like hey just so you know I'm scared about this   thing thing coming up I don't know if I can do it  it actually takes its power away um and so really   Outro telling each other what's going on inside by far  the biggest breakthrough we've had in our marriage   is that and it sounds so um like it sounds cliche  like I said but you really have to be intentional   about it there was a time where we were like  every day both of us have to say three things   to each other we were in this was when we we went  to Coupes therapy three things to each other that   are vulnerable genuinely vulnerable and so we did  that exercise for a few weeks and it was [ __ ]   great vulnerable yeah I I of course think of  the me saying that to someone yeah I immediately   thought of like what would I say every day three  new things that they can be big things or small   things you know sorry about premature ejaculation  yeah sure that's embarrassing that's vulnerable   it is [Music] um sorry for always crying during  movies do you cry during movies no but you do I   do I've started to no I I do cry I I do cry I  get emotional I get emotional when it reflects   something that's happened in my life or it's  parallel to things that I have witnessed as a   child or as an adult and I can relate or victims  or whatever or people in general when it's real   it can be pretty visceral yeah I mean that's  the magic of what we get to do right like when   it's good you really have you're like people can  see themselves you know Emily says that she does   what she does because she wants to make people  feel less lonely because loneliness comes from   not sharing yourself you know and wow and and you  see people going through the same things you go   through look at this and you realize oh we have  a visitor I but finish that that was an important   that what a beautiful oh go go Sayo come out hi  hi how beautiful how beautiful are you hi baby he   all right get out guys get out get out come on in  the middle of an interview how unprofessional hi   the blanch is my beauty she's five look at this  guy oh my God you know what this is a great way   to end the interview I mean there's no better  way I me you have to you can plan and stuff and   then suddenly you can't plan this beautiful dogs  you're a beautiful man this has been a real treat   you come back again sometime of course this so  easy it's so easy you're so open yeah I love you   I love you buddy all right bye what else can you  say about the guy I mean funny smart talented he's   the real he's all the things he's the real deal  that was a cool one he's one of those guys that   I've been watching for a long time so was cool to  see him in the flesh and cool that he's you know   a good good Soul a good egg he's really a good  egg I've had some good conversations with him   and he's just got a big heart and a dark sense  of humor too which I love yeah I like that you   can just talk you know how his mind works it's uh  you know you could say something so really funny   and dark and then say something so beautiful at  the same time and Emily is a genius he his wife   I freaking love her she's uh she and I have some  good laughs uh thank you for for listening to that   and make sure you follow us on our handles and  all that at inside of you podcast on Instagram   and Facebook at inside you pod on the Twitter  and support the podcast um go to patreon.com   inside you and join today and you can give back  um you guys keep the show alive so whether it's a   dollar a month or $5 dollar whatever it is um but  the top tiers here give a lot and they get their   names wrote out and other stuff so we're going to  jump into that now we're going to do the top tier   podcast shout outs top tier patrons I I love these  guys and I love all my patrons so let's let's just   do that patreon.com inside you let's go why don't  you lead us off with old Nancy D Nancy D Leah and   Christen little Lisa Yukiko Jill e Brian h niik p  Robert B Jason W Sophie M Raj C Jennifer N Stacy   L Jamal epin lb yes we're doing a YouTube live so  uh make sure you guys get on that and my YouTube   YouTube live is next week and then we're going  to I'm going to schedule a zoom with the top tier   patrons so you guys be aware of that and also if  you send messages I know on Google I don't check   them often but um I I appreciate them sometimes  they're so long I 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just John John it's not just John   it's John joh it's not John it's John everybody  it's John John well John Jennifer R Tina e NG   Tracy juny jun's relatively new and Tasha s  that's some newbies I I I I love that people   are like you know sometimes I look and I'm oh my  gosh I have another top tier or another Patron   and I try to send messages and stuff so it's cool  patreon.com inside you um thank you for listening   as always we'll try to bring you the best guests  we can and give you the best conversations and   hopefully it will help and hopefully you'll enjoy  it and uh thank you from uh the Hollywood Hills   and Hollywood California I am Michael rosenbom I'm  Ryan Tails we're doing this voice again yes we are   way to the camera thank you guys always I love you  and uh just be good to yourself I'll see [Music] you