Sox In The Basement | The Real Cause & Effect of White Sox Attendance

you're listening to sacks in the basement a production of the broadcast basement limited where every show is 30 minutes of good and comes from a basement bar on the south side of Chicago pull up a stool pour a cold one and join us right now for Saks in the basement heard everywhere podcasts can be found and always at socksinthebasement.com [Music] so the White Sox made an acquisition since last we talked uh you know big big news huge news a minor league contract uh this is where we're at at this point I know Scott Merkin if you subscribe to his newsletter in his newsletter that he put out this week Scott Merkin from mlb.com he did talk about the idea that he doesn't believe that they're done and that the moves the White Sox are going to make are going to happen later on in the off season but if we are still at this point when you get to spring training feel free to be angry so I thought that was pretty telling oh okay that's fair I guess like he's like you know this is where they're at and this is how they're spending and this is what their plan is and you know I don't think that they're going to make moves until everything settles and it's clear the White Sox couldn't be involved in all these big deals like they were they're never gonna give somebody all those years and all that money that you see flying around right now with the free agents like that's not how Jerry reinstorff operates it it's it's wrong of him not to operate that way okay I mean man I wish I had the owner of the Padres as my owner wow would I love to have the general manager of the Padres as my general manager but we're not the Padres okay and until there's a different owner in here we'll never be the Padres all right maybe one day that'll happen One Shining Moment on a hill all of a sudden there'll be somebody else sitting in that big desk and that person will actually care about the fans and the team and and actually building a winner instead of the bottom line and lip service and you know let's just try to get what we can get in here so we can be profitable every year I I would love to have it that way it's not that way and we're gonna have to wait and see what happens here this off season but Victor Reyes as a signing I wanted to kind of talk about real quick on this show because the first two names that popped into my head were Larry Garcia and Adam Engel and how does he compare to these two players when I'm trying to figure out what the plan is for the White Sox and is this a guy that increases your chances of winning baseball games decreases it if he makes the roster coming out of spring training uh with that minor league contract is the same kind of player what exactly is he and I look at a Victor Reyes and I see a guy who's got a career Ops of 673 and his Ops in 2022 was 651. so he's a he's a below 700 Ops and that's basically what he is he's a guy that the the Detroit Tigers thought was going to be really good and he was never really good and he never had like a big year like Anna mangles had bigger years than Victor Reyes and you know he had a terrible year last year if you jettisoned last year Adam Engel he would be the same as Victor Reyes with his career numbers okay and he said he had a couple of really big seasons in 2020 and 2021 in limited action I mean only 36 games in 2020 of course everybody had a low amount 39-21 so I'm not making excuses for angle but that's how they kind of compare Larry Garcia take out last year and this is Victor Reyes except Victor Reyes plays The Outfield probably better than Larry Garcia not much better though okay I mean he's he's got some negatives in the defensive realm out there so I mean it this is like a middling deal right here this is we got rid of angle we brought in Reyes Reyes may be the fourth outfielder but don't expect any kind of like big bump and you lose the defensive angle even if you gain a little bit a little bit more offense but nothing that's like more than than average like he's a below average hitter who's not going to play defense as well as Adam angle but he's gonna hit a little bit better than what we saw angle do last year he's a switch hitter it's a middling move isn't it yeah like it's not like something that should make you excited in any way whatsoever and if this is going to be a guy that they're going to sit there and tell you like well you know and then we got Victor Reyes coming off the bench you should roll your eyes because that's not that's not a move that gets you anywhere closer to winning a championship or even winning a division no no not at all he's a depth piece and and if and okay as a depth piece I mean you know if you if he's your fourth outfielder I guess that's you know that's fine enough um but he reminds me of like a couple years back when they had Nick Williams the Phillies had plotted on having a you know as as their future had one good year in the majors wasn't great year but it was a good year and then fell apart and that's what Victor Reyes is he's just a guy that you know once upon a time there was some prospects shine on him and then it's kind of faded and he just he's never really fully arrived those guys never really become anything and so I don't expect anything out of him it would be a mind-boggling thing for him to come up and at least be a replacement level player like he's going to be slightly below replacement level and and even if he's a replacement level that's that I guess that's a that's that's a good thing for a guy who fills in from time to time if he makes the major league roster but he to be a contributor like somebody you're gonna sit there and say man we're lucky we got that guy in the off season I'd be shocked uh this episode of sacks in the basement brought to you probably by Family waterproofing solutions for Boeing walls window wells foundation and crack repair gutter cleaning yard draining systems anything to keep water out of your basement and protect your foundation give them a call 24 7 at 708-330-4466 mentioned sacks in the basement you get additional money off your basement's best defense is at familydry.com you know it occurs to me though too Sox fans we should be really okay with Rick Han and handing out a bunch of minor league contracts and just seeing if he can catch lightning in a bottle right seeing if anybody could stick something why are we the Pirates yeah that's how they've been operating the last five years no but but but that's how you can build a bench on a budget very easily right I guess just throw a bunch of junk at the wall and hope something happens I mean the Cueto sighting made sense right like that's the thing when I think of minor league deals like when I look at one I go well that might make sense that guy's got some upside if you look at his career and you look at his injuries and you look at how long it normally would take a guy who's in his mid-30s to come back from the last one that he had he may still have something in the tank that's a great minor league signing I was in love with that signing the moment that they made it the Victor Reyes thing I go I mean any and and the White Sox are so bad in terms of their depth right now that immediately Jason Martinez was on the last episode of stocks in the basement you can get it on demand anywhere podcasts can be found and always at stocksinthebasement.com uh he he immediately added Victor Reyes into the 26-man roster on the fan graphs projected depth starts that's how bad it is right now well yeah and that's that's bad that is bad and you're trying to sit there and convince me that White Sox fans should be throwing down their money right now renewing their season tickets and it's all our fault that uh Jerry reinstorff can't spend any more money Bruce Levine put his foot in his mouth this weekend uh and I heard the full thing and it wasn't as harsh as like well White Sox fans didn't show up so that's why I can't spend any money but that was basically what was thrown out there the idea that attendance needs to increase for the owner to spend money and there's a lot of holes you can fire into that that is that is a a fallacy right off the bat the idea that you the fan has to go out and spend the money so the billionaire can turn around and actually uh spend money on his on his end and I'll I'm gonna go back to something that we've discussed here on this show as a basis here as we jump into this little bit of a conversation the book score casting hey it came out I want to say 2010 2011. uh it it talks about different things that happen in in all of sports home field advantage why do umpires Miss calls in certain situations anything you could think of they try to take data that they had picked up over decades and analyze it and try to figure out are there Trends are there things that can explain the unexplainable in sports and it's actually available online you can actually just Google score casting and it pops up as a PDF like the entire book is like free which I think is amazing I have a copy of it but it's it you can get the entire book for free if you just Google the thing so if you want to check this out later feel free you can dive into this a little deeper the last chapter talks really about the curse of the Cubs it was written before the Cubs had broken their supposed curse and it talked about whether or not luck has anything to do with winning and losing in Major League Baseball that was the premise of it and very quickly what they start to explain is it's more about the product on the field and are the Cubs at that time motivated to put a winner out there and it shows that the most fickle fan base in all of baseball is the New York Yankees and the least fickle fan base in all of baseball is the Chicago Cubs and one of the examples very quickly in in this book in this article is talking about reaction after the strike in the 90s they bring in in the book The White Sox they bring them into the conversation at this point pointing out that the White Sox are second second most fickle fan base the most comparable to the New York Yankees fan base basically if you win they'll show up and if you don't win they got better things to do and that's what White Sox fans are and they they point that out and they go we could compare the Cubs to the Yankees but it's more fun to compare the White Sox to the Cubs because the fan base of the sax is very similar to Yankees and that's the point that's made in the book so going into the strike in the 90s where and we talked about this on the last show when we talked about the generations of White Sox fans going into the strike in the 90s the Cubs are at 81 percent attendance and the sacks are at 72. 72 percent is not bad that's almost 3 4 or your Stadium full every game like on average that's what you're averaging Jerry reinstorff which is also shocking because there you have a lot of attendance and a lot of socks fans were back then me included feel like the owner just wouldn't pull the trigger to get that one more move done to try to win a championship because he wasn't going to spend the money but he was getting attendance at the time well then the strike happens and Jerry's one of the guys on the owner's side that it's clear as driving the ownership side of this strike so a lot of fans are blaming him when it's over Cub fans return sax fans dip below 50 attendance and right there they try to make the point of it wasn't because the Cubs had a winner cup fans just like going for the experience if you raise ticket prices for Cub fans they don't care in fact the only thing they seem to care about in this article was beer prices the moment you started to impede on their party that's when they would it would hurt attendance so the Cubs had habitually kept beer prices down like they had figured this out and they knew as long as they kept beer prices down it didn't matter whether or not they put a winner on the field because they were always going to have High attendance meanwhile White Sox fans by comparison when they're breaking down all this stuff they react to whether or not you win or if you lose on the field they react to whether or not they think that you're trying to win baseball games should they invest themselves into the team because you've invested into the team now this is data that is collected over decades that's inside of this book that breaks this down and it's amazing to me that an owner that's been around down for 40 plus years doesn't understand his team as well as these two authors or pretty much any basic White Sox fan in the chicken or the egg scenario you gotta spend first and put a winner on the field not only do you have to spend but you got to put a winner on the field right before we're going to show up and spend money to buy tickets and this tired Act of well if they don't spend we can't get another free agent or we can't be active that's a bunch of garbage and Sox fans have rejected it decade over decade generation over generation it's a tired dance between ownership and fan in which this fan base refuses to be fooled by that [Music] before my partner in crime over here at the other end of the nine foot homemade Oak Bar jumps in on this and I see him looking up White Sox attendance numbers and payroll numbers on his computer switch to a new age of life with high at Home Medical Equipment whether you you have suffered an injury or you're not getting around the house very well or you're worried about Mom and Dad Grandma and Grandpa keeping them out of Assisted Living you could set up the home like a smart home you can make sure that the fall risk is reduced greatly with ways that they can retrofit the bathtubs and set up AIDS around the house to keep them upright it's all about staying independent and in the home plus the latest in CPAP technology if you have sleep apnea they have the latest machines and testing rooms to make sure you get the most out of your machine the latest in diabetes control as well improve your quality of life and visit Hyatt Home Medical Equipment right here on the South Side they're going to work with your insurance and they're going to take additional money off if you mention socks in the basement see everything they have to offer at hhme.com or stop in and see them today 3518 West 95th Street in Evergreen Park all right so what are you coming up with down there when it comes to attendance and uh salary and all of that kind of coming together over the history of the White Sox the payroll doesn't necessarily go up every time attendance is high it fluctuates there's some back and forth there's some up and down there's some plateauing there as the team is kind of what it is right so you know your point about leading up to the strike attendance is really high in 92 and 93 you know the 94 it's shortened so what are you going to do payroll is kind of the same across those three years it's not it doesn't jump up as they go from uh you know having a good year in 91 at 87 and 75 coming off of 1990 when they were 94 and 68. you know attendance is going up right the 1990 White Sox 94 and 68 finished in second place attendance is a little over 2 million the next year it's just under 3 million because you're coming off of a 94 win season a 91 year 87 and 75 you finished second the next year for 1992 it's 2.6 million uh following a successful 92 campaign or at least a winning campaign I would imagine 06 is higher than o5 without looking at it because you have it in front of of you yeah and and so in 93 it's 2.5 million and then it falls off because of the strike 1.9 million in 2003 1.9 million in 2004 in 2005. it's 2.3 million 2006. it's 2.975 hold on a second wait a minute let me let me get this straight so if they have a winning season and there's promise for the next year more people buy season tickets and more people show up that's that's how it works that's the cause and effect when dealing with White Sox fans and that's that's more of a correlation so yes the payroll did go up between 2005 and 2006. however it didn't really go up that much between 2004 and 2005 when attendance you know started starts at Spike and when you go back into the 90s the payroll is fairly flat and then you get into this you know this this more recent memory where uh even the 2011 socks they're they're not great right it's 2 million the next year there's not a whole lot of drop it's a drop of about 430 people a game the payroll lowers the payroll goes lower in 13 and then it goes lower in 14. and meanwhile that the attendance is mirroring the the Sox record more than anything else because attendance is dropping we're getting into the rebuild and the team is terrible right so yeah people aren't showing up but we showed up last year and that's the infuriating thing as I said as fans it's the first time over 2 million in attendance last year was the first time going over 2 million since 2011. and the payroll is going to drop this coming year so you want us to what buy more seasoned tickets and that's going to prove that there's not going to be a fall off here after an 81 and 81 year I think Jerry maybe does understand and that's why you're hearing this is is that you know they do understand that the team needs to be responsive in the wins and loss column because that's what drives it I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a potential uh setup for the thousand dollar guest Bounty it's been a weird off season when it comes to booking people that maybe major league baseball players during the lockout last year it was a lot easier because they had nothing else to do and they couldn't be around team facilities and they didn't have to ask permission that's the other thing right yeah there's no permission because I don't work for you technically if you're not allowed to talk to the team you don't have to listen to them say we don't like that podcast so it was much easier for us to work it out I do think we've got a few that are in the pipeline and we've gotten some really good suggestions I'm looking for more of the non-baseball ones seriously I don't feel like that you don't have somebody that is worthwhile to be a guest in the thousand dollar guest Bounty best guest of the off Seasons getting a thousand dollars from parente and Norm get those people in because I think we're going to see a run of them in January and February here on this show it's been it's been a weird setup this year I know we've only had one so far but it's almost like you can see them all stacking up and we're gonna just be like going through them like crazy in January and February well that's that's gonna be good I'm looking forward to that but yeah let's bring us somebody interesting entertain me right we need something it's either I mean look here's the deal we're willing to give you a grand if we can talk about anything other than how Jerry's cheap the team doesn't treat its fans right the budget's all screwed up Rick Hinds a bad general manager I mean there's so many talk about something else so this would be a thousand dollars for us to feel better about life is really what it is I'd rather spend a thousand dollars on just getting a break from the White Sox BS than spend it on tickets yeah but what's your experience and I'm still gonna go to games here's the thing I'm still going to go to games I'm still going to walk in the door and put my hard-earned money down a couple times this year I'm going to spend it on less like that's the thing I find myself doing less like like I I already started my protest last year I mean think about this they talk about the attendance last year and it was high imagine what it would have been like if sax fans weren't convinced before the All-Star break you couldn't win with Tony larussa I mean I would add I would add easily a half million more in attendance easily if that team was competitive last year okay a lot there were a lot of no shows for season tickets in the second half of the Season there are a lot of people there was they were getting nothing at the gate I would love to see that broken down month by month and if they were actually winning what what the projection would have been so again I mean not only did they do well last year but they would have done so much better if he wouldn't have put his buddy in his manager if Jerry wouldn't have thrown his buddy in there as the manager and then instead of replacing him Midway through the season if they would have made the replacement earlier they would have had higher attendance they would have made more money at the Ballpark and me and going back to the experience why would I spend money chasing around the ballpark getting told no you can't come to this level or we're out of this item that you saw us promote that we're selling there when I can walk over and and get a better price and a better product over at Cork and carry at the park down the street I'm somebody that sits around and say like I have to check my my money and I've gotta I've gotta look at like you know our budget cast I checked my budget in my household like four times a month all right so I'm gonna get the most out of my money I'm gonna get the most bang for my buck the sacks aren't offering that right now you know I mean I'm willing to spend money if I feel like I'm gonna get that Joy of a good team because otherwise what am I what am I what am I spending my money on that for when I could spend my money on something else and I'm not alone I I think that I'm in the majority of Sox fans with that with that feeling that's why attendance dips that's why you have people that aren't renewing their tickets there doesn't seem to be an understanding of that you can't win this fan base without putting in an effort we talked about this last week when we talked about the generations White Sox fans people loved Bill Beck and John Allen because they understood that he didn't they didn't have a lot of money but they were trying their hardest right and people look at this guy and go he's Rich he's got 1.8 billion dollars net worth I can Google him takes two seconds for it to pop up spend some money Cheapo that's how they feel and they and they really react poorly When anybody whether it be the team because I've heard Kenny Williams mention it before I mean if you've been around the White Sox long enough it's actually come straight from the front office Well we'd be able to make more moves if more people were in the seats we've heard that before we've heard variations of that or it's somebody like Bruce Levine who clearly you know this is how he does his job he gets his information from certain sources within teams those sources tell him what they what their company line is and he spews that thing right out on the radio okay but it's it's insulting to the fan base it's insulting to the people that that are paying money for your team it it doesn't do you any good I mean I feel like the whole idea was this week to try to guilt people who are on the fence about season tickets well you know own if you don't re-up that package well we're just going to be worse is that a threat do you think Southsiders take threats well oh yeah that works out real well but here's the thing they want to talk about what the experience is okay well how about the experience parking's terrible traffic's awful you took the banners down in the Outfield and you painted them on the brick because you're too cheap to buy new banners after you win a division can't get a pretzel brought none of that matters see that's the problem is even even you and I as we're talking were caught up in this minutia of is the ballpark good enough is the food good enough do you get enough bang for your buck for the beers that you buy for the dollars that you spend that that's not what the experience is that White Sox fans care about yeah I want to win we care about the sheer the shared experience okay the sharing of the thrill of victory when have White Sox fans been the most like in love with each other as a group when Scott posednik walked off game two right that that that moment had to be one of the moments of in recent memory of just pure unadulterated right Joy amongst White Sox fans where it didn't matter nuns were hugging biker chicks in the crowd like it was it all of a sudden it was like that moment literally literally any you could have had take take two Immortal Enemies and they would have at least given each other a good solid like a legit high five right not like one of those like half-assed like Mom made you shake hands no no no it was a good one like it stung a little bit on the palm it was that kind of a high five the White Sox want to ask what our experiences or what experience we look forward to the most we want to turn to the guy next to us and we want to be able to celebrate something that just happened on the field we want to be able to talk we don't want to know the players because we're never going to know the players we know better we're never going to be friends with these guys but we want to be able to talk about how good they are right and we want to be excited when they come up to the plate we want to be excited by a guy like Eloy Jimenez coming up to the plate because we know it means something that's the shared experience that we're talking about and it's lost when you get into well what do you think about bacon wrapped Burgers you know that I don't care your Bacon's probably gonna be crappy anyway it's it's yeah I mean like seriously half the time I half the time you don't have it and the other half of it tell you what I get I go this is underwhelming for all that buddy not great I mean yes everything's better in bacon but but I you know win baseball games I go to a ballpark I drink whatever beer is Handy fine Bud Light I never drink Bud Light yeah fine Bud Light whatever it's there it's cold it's a baseball game I don't I don't care I mean I love you know the fact that you're you offer craft beers but you get wrapped up in the minutia of is the parking good enough are the seats comfortable enough are you know are the ushers attractive enough I don't care none of it matters you have attractive ushers I don't know no I've never had attractive but give me an usher that like punches me in the face after they check my ticket but if we win I'm a happy man with a black eye right bring back Andy the clown and the only side dish that's available is chips and I'm fine as long as you have a winner that's all I care about [Music] foreign [Music] Brewing is the official Brewery of socks in the basement and the best beer hall that you can walk into anywhere that's what I would describe it as a big giant beer hall got live music on the weekends there's good food and extensive beer menu you see the Brewers off to the side making their next creation and the Creations they have right now are spectacular it's definitely Stout season at hailstorm Brewing Company like I'm a stout guy the 2022 Vlad chocolate and vanilla blend 12.1 percent amazing but my dad just likes Hotel life hey he's a guy who generally drinks like Miller Lite but every time I'm telling them I'm going to hail storm in Tinley he's like I'm coming along and he just sits there and drinks Hotel life an American lager it's definitely something to try out get in and see them right now 80 60 186th Street right off of 80th Avenue visit the official Brewery of sacks in the basement hail storm brewing company and see everything they have to offer at hailstormbrewing.com let let's talk about before we get out of here Tim Anderson on the internet because you you've seen this now going around people are taking screenshots of the fact that he liked something on Twitter and there's been a reaction to it he needs to stay off social media okay family drama like sprayed across Instagram and the comments that he makes like he's like that guy that tries to get attention on Facebook like we all have that one friend who like writes like something cryptic just because he wants people to reach out and say you okay and I think he does it on Twitter like he writes something cryptic when he's having a bad day yeah because he needs people to reach out and say you good you okay Tim I love you Tim don't leave us Tim you're my favorite player Tim he's like that guy like I have a friend of mine that's like that like he's having a bad day and he just writes things like I'm just trying to process my life right now like that means nothing to me and you see all these people like jump in the comments like you okay man you're gonna be okay it's just an attention grab like the guy does it all the time and Tim does it all the time right and so now he liked to tweet what did he say the Tweet was basically like we've seen Jose Abreu in another uniform we'll see TA in another uniform yeah but the thing is he's not happy I think that's really obvious that he's not happy folks I mean could you be happy for if you were standing at short and you'll want a batting title and you are the engine that made the car go and you had had all these huge moments like the the walk-off in in the Field of Dreams game and you're driving all the marketing for the team and the South Side Jersey is something I if I'm not mistaken he helped come up with and and you are you are it you're like you're the team leader you're everything and you're standing in short and you're stuck in some option years where like this year he's making 12 million dollars and the guy right next to you at third base the biggest accomplishment he's had the last two years is that he he wrote his own walk-up song right and he's got a music video to go with it because he hasn't done anything else and he's making far more money than you he's gonna make even more money over the next couple of years years then you I mean like more than double than what you're making and he's terrible and he's given every opportunity by the organization and the new manager is talking about how we're going to get him going like of course he's upset like I don't know anybody that wouldn't be upset about that like if you had a co-worker who always was terrible he was getting paid more than twice that you and you shared a cubicle with him and and the bosses always talk about we gotta get you on going you be upset so I get why he liked it I mean I I don't know if that means he's leaving but here's a guy who probably wants to get paid and trust me Jerry Rice not the only only owner that feels this way but we all saw him talk about it during that Bulls Dynasty like documentary that came out where he was basically like I told Scotty not to sign that contract wasn't my fault he wasn't getting paid he signed the contract like he probably would get the same response to Tim if Tim knocked on his door would you mind if not at this point so it's it's a thing I think it's a real thing I think that there's a Timmy Anderson like I mean look I don't think that he's gonna purposely like play badly in fact he should play great so he can max out his value so that when he finally gets out from underneath this he can really get money like these guys that he's watching that are his peers that are getting paid he should be so motivated to be so good over the next couple of years then when he walks out somebody's like I don't care what your age is here's six years and like 200 million dollars like that's what he like he's like one of these guys that has to be looking at that saying I gotta get done with this and this team is never going to pay me that all right so I get why he liked it that's the reality of Tim Anderson right now it's one of the reasons why I sat there and said look if you if you really want to improve your team and you're going to spend like a big boy team and I wasn't the only one who said it on this show I saw National people saying it when they were talking about the White Sox and they and they didn't have the understanding of what the sacks are going to do payroll wise but they were like you know it makes sense like you know for the sacks maybe to move ta and go get one of these big Short Stops that are a little bit better defensively and hit you know they may not have the the average but the power goes up they might have a higher yes go get like one of those big guys and and look at the return you get for this affordable contract is why teams inquired about him during the winter meetings because there was a semblance of sense that could have been made if the sacks were going in a different direction and they were like hey we could go be in the derby for these big time players and look what we could get back for Anderson now the stocks are interested in it and I'm not advocating for it but I mean like that's the reality of Tim Anderson right now he's got a very Team friendly deal and he probably isn't happy when he looks around the field at what other guys are getting paid no and and that's that's just going to be the reality for a team that if they're going to continue to operate with Team friendly contracts through through guys arbitration years and trying to maximize what you get per dollar out of your young players if you're going to operate like that then as fans we have to recognize we have got to recognize the fact that when it comes their time to hit that free agent Market if they are really good they are not going to come here because they are not going to get that kind of money Carlos Rodan I'm sure has some lovely memories of being a White Sox however there is not a chance that the mystery team that's in on Carlos Rodan is the White Sox unless he's taking way less money than somebody else is going to give him right so just I I'm not I don't begrudge ta I don't begrudge any of the White Sox players when they hit free agency if they just say thanks guys it's been a it's been a blast but I'm gonna go get paid somewhere else because it just isn't happening here socks in the basement socks in the basement socks in the basement socks in the basement heard everywhere podcasts can be found and always on socksinthebasement.com