Gillian Anderson and Rufus Sewell for ‘Scoop’ | Conversations at the SAG-AFTRA Foundation

when you were um out muttering lines along the river did did anyone see you or uh no one saw me no no i' like you know M that's the great thing about you know modern technology is that you can Mumble to yourself and someone assumes you're talking to someone else you know so it's much easier to do your lines in public now so you did her part in your recording yeah oh we got to hear that did you yeah yeah did you do it in her voice masterful what can I say hilarious no I mean yeah that's that's that's what I did yeah as I would just walk and walk and walk uh uh this is actually an audience of your fellow actors uh zag after actor I usually like to start by asking how you got your sag card but I know it might be unusual uh coming from the UK so I'm actually more curious what was your first acting job that can be the first time you got paid for it or the first time you felt like you're a professional actor It was a commercial I think mine was a uh it was either a Hardy's commercial does anybody remember Hardies are they still around are Hardies still around in obscure places was either that or an American Express commercial that never saw the light of day but one of those um yeah but you still got paid right yeah okay good for you mine mine was a play it was actually a tour of two plays at the same time the Royal hunt of the Sun in which I played a Franciscan frier and we were also doing a play called I can see that yes and at the same time we were doing a tour of the local prisons which you can also probably see um where I was playing kind of Psychopathic comedian in this play called comedians so I was doing to and I had this hair that I could either curl up into a tonsa or down into kind of a SK was my that one again one of these days uh plain prison audiences after that was it all doing the theater Royals in the local towns like the the poshest of the Posh and then we go to the local prison to to both it was a great way of starting and I thought oh my career is going to be really interesting then I didn't work for about a year and a half after that but I bet there were actually really appreciative audiences really really appreciative and sometimes quite nerve-racking because I was playing a kind of psychopath the way they responded to me I like that one I so it was a bit nerve-wracking I love that well congratulations on a wonderful film uh I know that the the BBC interview with prince Andrew was a seismic event in the UK and and eventually in ours it took a couple days for for it to resonate with us do you remember seeing it were you watching it live was everybody talking about it when it went down I think I avoided it for a while because uh what we were hearing was that it was a catastrophe and um see I'd jump right to it if I heard that yeah I think I think because of the nature of the catastrophe and how cringe cringeworthy it was I I wasn't sure I don't think I was in the mood for at the particular at the time but um eventually caught some of it and then obviously watched it obsessively to prepare for this very much the same with me I didn't watch it live at the time I heard the Rumblings and I think similarly I didn't particularly feel like sitting and watching the whole thing and then eventually I did start watching it in clips and found it kind of grimly fascinating and then of course ended up living with it for for a long time in aberation for this well I'm actually kind of curious about that because because as actors you have to recognize good drama but at the same time you probably never thought when that interview was airing like you know I'd like to start an adaptation of that story or maybe you were maybe you yeah didn't cross my mind no but I I do have to say when I when I did watch it I was fascinated by what by what I thought was going on in his head yes I did find it that's what was very very interesting about the mate the things it reminded me of and you know I I found it very painful to watch but but very fascinating at the same time I actually want to get into that because there's things you're you're Eerie in this as him um and there there there's things that you do like with your eyes where I like just want I just want to like pause and and and do a live commentary and say like what were you thinking in that moment well one of the things that I noticed when I first watched it is that you're watching real thoughts but you're also watching performative thoughts so he is he's he's cooked Little Things up at home that he thinks are true in his own way he's found a way to tell his version of the truth which is about avoidance and making up little stories and then he he attempts to fresh mint those things in front of you but it doesn't he doesn't have enough oxygen to do it successfully because of the laser-like Gaze that is upon him but a lot of that a lot of the you know that people who might not be the best thinkers in the world still do a lot of thinking mhm also he really interesting that's that's such a good line I know from experience also he thinks he's killing it he thinks he's doing great when this is happening and it's fascinating to me you see that hubris yeah he really had no idea that's the tricky thing about it as like it's really hard to get your head around the fact that he was so cocka hoop at the end of it but so that she kept so cool that she really didn't you know let on the fact that she realized that it was a car crash happening right in front of her and also what I'm I you know if I could ask her a question it would be when he's giving you a tour a 45 minute tour of Buckingham Palace afterwards and all all you want to do is talk to your all you want to do is talk to you know your your your producer or go back and watch what you captured how do you keep your focus and and not like what is going on in her mind as she's pretending to look at the tapestries yes you know I mean crazy when I have I wouldn't I've never had an interview like that but when I have an interview that I know is really good I have to run out of the room and make sure it recorded and the fact that she didn't do that that the strength she had to stand there and and look at bucking and Palace it's amazing yeah I mean the were there were six cameras rolling at the same time but still and yeah yeah so you've both played real people in your career but I'm not sure you've ever portrayed events that are quite so current um I'm curious how you prepared for the roles especially with two people who like right now at this very second are ever present in today's media we we know what they look and sound like it was it was it was daunting uh daunting I you know she's in my proximity she lives kind of in my neighborhood and she did she uh she walks moody in hiy park you know you see her running in hide Park she does that on a regular basis I know people that know her and so um that was a little too close to home for Comfort on the one hand but on the other hand you know a lot of access to um footage of her uh online and you know listening to her podcast to her read her audio book um yeah that was my experience of of I mean have you seen her in the park since the movie premiered um I have seen her in the park since the movie premiered actually the day after I saw our yeah oh do you not know this yeah so so after I saw our um uh this film our film literally the day after I was taking my dog for a walk in the park and we have this routine where she drags me you know uh to the park and then at this garbage bin she sits down and turns around and she wants me to uncp her so I can throw a ball and so she's dragged me we're standing there I'm bent down to uncp her and all of a sudden there's somebody kind of pushes me out of the way to throw a um that I I won't say that I just somebody moved between me and Inc conveniently here and the bin and um to throw something away and just as I was looking up Moody went right between us and I thoughty and then I looked up and there she was she didn't see me she was with a friend and they were just about to go for a run and um and I I literally almost said um I just saw our film it's so good which uh I'm glad I didn't yeah she she has her own uh project at the same time and uh yeah it would have been really embarrassing and I'm guessing you don't run into prince Andrew at the park no I haven't no no um I that's another movie if you're had no definitely definitely um I'd never I I I like doing accents and like doing but I've never played anyone you know who's still alive who there's video footage of or anything like that and um I knew that I wanted to do it and said yes relatively quickly and then it dawned on me what I just agreed to and I didn't you know because I haven't done anything like this before I had to kind of invent a way of doing it and I think it was just similar to you I just watched it and listened to it all the time and my first attempts were so far off and I just kind of kept I had to kind of get through the pain barrier for a while um and that because which is a very important thing of just like not Jud and and I would I would wear different things and I would experiment you know until and I even kind of would not make myself up but I would do things to the way I look just so my own disbelief in myself would kind of go go in the background and I would just try to track the thoughts as he was doing them and try to work out my version of what was going on but on top of that what I tried to do was watch as much footage of him doing well as I possibly could because actually there was a lot of people who worked with him who really rather liked him as well as people who despised him and I saw footage and this is the tricky bit of him being really rather charming and being great with people and kind of funny and naughty etc etc and wanted to kind of represent that as well but that's the scary bit of I was more scared of being accused of trying to make him look good than you know because you want to be fair um but in the end I think if you can be criticized for for both then I think you found you've got it right you know in that way I I had told Jillian earlier that that when I first saw you in the film I actually thought it was like footage I didn't realize it was an actor it it took me a second I was so surprised yeah no I mean it as a compliment and I wasn't aware there you you are wearing prothetics of some kind oh quite a lot no I how dare [Applause] you no I'm so good I can just think my way into but no there is a degree of how you hold your but I'm trying to bail myself out but okay did everyone here know that I knew there was like some but like yes I'm going to quit while my head there was a lot of protic I mean look at that jaw line stop let me ask you was that your bum no it was not my bum I did entire interviews where my secret mission was just to slip in that it wasn't my but but did you get the only reason I turned up it wasn't my I knew that answer I knew that answer I've heard him qualify that a few few a real friend did you did you get to approve your butt double or disapprove my butt disapprove yes so where did you even begin was it like a process of finding the look well I mean there were certain things I did on my own you know I mean I matted my hair down and I kind of take my eyebrows go away and I would try to pad myself and just walk a pad around a bit and try to find something that is commitment especially if you're getting caught is embarrassing I have to say but um but trying to find something that felt a bit like him but still felt like I could forget about because there's a certain point where you feel like you're acting and I think it was more important to be present without so in the end I think we both did a lot of work and then just tried to listen to each other and and whatever stays stays you know was there anything that you learn in your research that even if it didn't make it overtly into the film like really gave you kind of a key to who these people were oh interesting um I think there there were a couple of things that I that I heard um from people that had worked with her that wouldn't necessarily have have uh shown up either in uh dialogue somebody speaking about her or anything that were that was quite helpful anything specific I'll leave it at that okay yeah um with me I mean you know you do as much research as you can just in case it helps in some ways some things might Happ and sometimes just um a little bit of instinct you know a wild guess or something that just feels right and for me it was just my knowledge that people tend even people who are dealing dealing with guilt can feel like victims people who have and vice versa you know that this was someone who who felt he had to lie for his truth to be known so he it creates a very awkward kind of little thing going on in him but he he thinks he's telling a version of the truth in which for the truth to be seen he has to skip around some uncomfortable areas yeah some Unbecoming areas yes slightly Unbecoming areas yeah I believe he believes it no to some degree yeah absolutely um we I want to talk some more about the interview scene because um it's it's weird to say that that that you have chemistry but you do you know that that can accompany many things the sequence is so alive and so fraught did you know each other coming into this I just I mean the UK is a small island so I assume you run into each other briefly it was like we did a film together we had like two scenes together we were playing man and wife though husband and wife what film I'm drawing a blank I'll follow you down yeah it a a time travel a time travel uh film that did it have another title did it have it may have had a few it was a lovely little film but it's a a very interesting little time travel film kind of strange like independent film um and I think we did did a play reading a couple of play reading we you know yeah okay okay we're at the doll's house together oh yes we did that was me yeah yeah I was very good youing Prosthetics when you were doing the reading wobbling jowls might have thrown you um but I know with films you often don't have time to rehearse so no we didn't yeah no you probably showed up and did did a table read first I'm presuming yeah we did a table read about what's 6 weeks before or just the beginning of filming and then you went away and we continue to film before um he got there to do the interview and then uh we both worked on it separately in our own worlds obsessive yeah worlds and then came together on the actual day to F my first day that was your first first day but it was actually a great way to start because at the end of these two days because we basically they set up all these cameras and it was very much like a real situation all the cameras didn't look they look like the interview cameras and Philip the director would really left us alone to do it at first and we just kind of did it on a loop for two days like it was like doing a little play well we showed up and you know obviously they they had built recreated that that drawing room um down to the tea and in the interview itself there were six small cameras set up that that film the interview so quite low cameras and over the shoulder but then so they had those cameras that had film in them and also the two film cameras over the shoulders and so there were eight cameras working at the same time so we so we showed up and we'd already discussed with the director that we were okay with trying to do the 20 minute beginning to end um uh and just seeing how it would go and we we showed up and he said would you want to try it yeah and um so we got we got miked up we start our seats got miked up and and you know figured out the leg crosses there's a couple of things we had to work out but we just did it yeah and then he said okay wow and you ran through it a few times in in real time I presume over and over yeah yeah more than a few but but we got through it you know we got all the way through it the first time which was you know um disconcerting on the one hand and i' you know I spoken about this before but you know doing it um you know and I'd really you know both of us separately had really studied it and so you know getting to you don't know how the other actor is going to prepare or whether you know you can be prepared you know ready I mean I assumed you would but you know is that a compliment I wasn't worried that you hadn't prepared as for I no but you don't you know you don't know you you know you're going to go and you're going to do your best and they're probably going to go and do their best but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to you know be able to get a run on it and so and so we were doing it for the first time in front of each other and um and so obviously as we're doing it I'm I'm asking the questions as she asked the question questions you know to the best my ability in that Rhythm and moving and looking and doing all the gestures at the same time and everything and and then sitting in front of me is answering you know prince Andrew you know and so there was part of me that was wanting to react to the fact that you know I know Rufus I saw him in the Hera makeup trailer this morning and and and he is prince Andrew and there's part of me that you know wants to react and just go yeah job man that's amazing you know but you can't because I'm trying to react as Emily matless is reacting so it was a really bizarre very meta uh experience no it was exactly the same for me because I've been studying on my own there's this missing part of it and then suddenly it was so uncanny watching Jillian as Emily it was exactly the same and it was the one bit that was missing was this Al so this kind of very gentle and controlled Iron Will opposite me which was it was very useful to help me kind of wobble and falter in that way but it was it was it gave me so much because it exactly in ways that I hadn't even noticed noticing exactly the same and then at the same time there was a little bit of Freedom with it so we could still play with each other you know the thing that I found really frustrating is because she does look down so much it appears as if I'm looking at my lines and I she was not I lucky they were there too joking that's not true it's a joke one too many jokes we're going to be very clear she knew her lines and it was not his butt everyone needs to know those two things um I am sort of curious just just because this is an audience of actors um when you have you know that big day that you know is coming up on the call sheet how do you prep for it like do you want to get a lot of sleep the night for do you have to meditate and then you know do you have someone that like you run lines with or do you prefer to like record it and do it with yourself I I was living um in Twickenham where I grew up actually by the by the TS and this very tiny little cottage and my my thing to do every night was to have my lines in my earphones and to walk along by the temps doing the interview really so I don't know if anyone was disturbed by someone mumbling about not sweating in Pizza Express whilst cuz I was basically I just have the feed and I would just do the interview on these long night was a very strange you know that's interesting because I because I did it on the um uh walking on the treadmill quite a lot and there's something about the physicality about getting in the physicality of it that was really um that I I found helpful but I I have a tendency for things to go really wrong I have a history of things going really wrong either the day of a rehearsal or the day before shoot and on um I did street car Named Desire a few years ago yes you did and you were amazing and uh thank you um the morning of our first rehearsal I was sorry I had to tell the story I was taking my kids to school I live in London I was taking my kids to school and I've told them so many times I mean they were a lot younger I told them so many times s that not to turn the radio on that it became like a um a joke and so they'd do it on purpose so the radio was always on when I'd start the car and because I was distracted um uh I just I I left it but I ended up backing into a Porsche without realizing it because the radio was on and um and as I'm like driving driving away um I can see my son in the in the rearview mirror saying he's saying something and I turn it down he said who is that man he said I said what man you know I'm driving he said the man running after the car I was like that was my first day and then first day of Thatcher I fell down the stairs and I ripped my shoulder I mean it's like I I yeah so that's that that's what I do isn't there an expression yeah I've heard that what is it well it's a good sign to say you know bad dress rehearsal good show you know you don't that's why it was so wonderful to to shoot that scene without rehearsal is because there's nothing worse than a perfect rehearsal you know I'd much rather do a bad take than a perfect rehearsal so you know so the the the well-timed bad luck just before you need it the good luck you know when you were um out muttering lines along the river did did anyone see you or uh no one saw me no no i' like you know much that's the Great thing about you know modern technology is that you can Mumble to yourself and someone assumes you're talking to someone else you know so it's much easier to do your lines in public now as long as you got earphones in it covers a multitude of sins you know and were you just doing your lines or did you have no I I I I had my own vers of you I had my own version of you that I was playing to myself I wasn't very good but uh you know so I would I would Q you my imagin version and I would respond so you did her part in your recording yeah oh we got to hear that did you yeah did you do it in her voiceful what can I say hilarious no I mean yeah that's that's that's what I did yeah as and I would just walk and walk and walk uh that's uh also that that day on the set I'm curious what the atmosphere was like cuz I I know the real s Callister is a producer on this based on her book was she there oh yeah wow and Incredibly supportive and fantastic really she's a great great person yeah so she's watching you and and basically telling you in real time you're getting right that sucked not how they did it at all no yeah she was she was great wow that's amazing you have like you have like a creative consultant who was actually there right there yeah I I I actually didn't use her that much um I know that she was incredibly helpful for Billy and Billy spoke to her um a lot yeah I'm the like I kind of hide a little bit in a situation like that because I'm so sensitive to what people might be actually thinking I can't help but try to read between the lines and everything is significant you know so I would tend not to look at her until it was afterwards you know I don't want to see someone looking worried right right the I didn't want to hear anything proor not that she would have but I didn't you know I I I wanted to um not that I only wanted to hear positive stuff about Emily but I didn't want to be affected At All by anybody saying anything that might actually um influence the performance in a negative way in any way or or have me try and um mask or make up for something I I you kind of have to I I find that uh it it helps to kind of slightly fall in love with a character that you're playing if they're a real character cuz it's you know you often or at Le you know particularly in something like that or it it you know if I if I had in my mind all the things that I thought about her time and office I'm not sure you know I might have played scenes differently and so it was important to start from a clean slate and um and I guess you know I kind of learned from that and I try and do that and you also can't play the end which we know now but but they don't know when it's happening like I said he thought he killed it in that interview he thought it would go very differently yeah um I don't know what to say about when I I really wonder I would have liked to have been there for the moment when he realized it was a disaster like if someone told him or you know you just it took a while really yeah I think it took a while for him to get word I don't think he could I mean you know I don't think I don't know this but that's the impression I get that's what's so fascinating because yeah uh you know what what there's an old saying about like um if you ever want to make like if you want good reviews for the rest of your life play a good journalist and now all the critics of the journalists will will love you but I am sort of curious what what has the response been cuz here you know this is a story that we kind of thought we knew and watching this I realized I didn't know anything especially about like you know getting this story um what has the response been in the UK um I mean it's been it's been very uh positive from my from my uh experience um and there was a lot of stuff that I that I didn't know I mean I felt like I followed the Epstein story uh quite meticulously and and for instance the stuff about you know the townhouse around the corner and the girls being escorted by NPD and Secret Service that was no information um uh and there were a few things like that that was that were I mean that image of Clinton um in the Monica Lewinsky dress that I mean you know there's a lot of there's stuff there's detail in there that was uh that was new um for me to learn um and now I can't even remember what your question is just sort of if people have come up and wanted to talk to you about it no I think I mean they they've been pretty and but journ you know doing interviews for for this most of the journalists are very excited to talk about it because of you know the nature of their job and talk to you know anybody who understands the complexities of uh of Journalism and the importance particularly of having independent journalism and uh the opportunity or the platform to hold authority to account um and the importance of maintaining that in society which feels like it's uh slipping away um so yeah yeah this is this is our superhero movie so and for you have you had similar experience yeah very much so but I I I do it does feel like a very wide range of British Society did watch it um it it wasn't just one particular you know Strat of society that all kinds of people watched it and they got because taking on a a thing like this you never quite know because there's very very strong feelings on either side but actually I was very pleasantly surprised by the reaction I'm very proud of the the show itself uh it's it's so fantastic and the good news is it's streaming now on Netflix so you can watch it again and again and then go watch the actual interview because it is uncanny when you see what they're doing here um again I want to thank you so much for being here thank you for being a great audience thank you for coming [Music]