Diane Lane for ‘Feud: Capote Vs. The Swans’ | Conversations at the SAG-AFTRA Foundation

my analogy is they give you cards to play and they're going to film the card game like like a poker game and you're holding your cards and you think you know what you're doing and then you say wait I'm holding a what and now we're going to do what and you're saying oh okay I think I would have done something a little different in the earlier bits but you roll with it man you just got to roll with it this is an amazing episode to get to talk about I think this is amazing role I cried oh yeah oh it's I mean Naomi and treat together yeah the magic that they create in the end there I just even thinking about it it gets me emotional because God bless treat yeah we I'm going to ask you about treat there's several amazing co-stars obviously this is such an amazing cast yes the cast is ridiculous can I start by I like to start by asking to describe your character I want to hear in your words who is Slim Keith well slim Keith is was an amazing woman she was a maven a connector a very well- read woman a woman of the world she didn't start out that way she had humble beginnings um you know she wound up becoming appreciated for her vivacity and her willingness to talk to people and her Jah de vivra and also she had a sense of fashion which which is interesting and not necessarily the same as we understand it today because in those days fashion W needed icons actually it wasn't created by the Fashion World they were they were they were seeking people that they could emulate and say now that and so the best dress list came into being and it meant a lot carriage um how one comports oneself and being InterContinental and sort of representing America overseas and um she she met a great slew of interesting people and I got to read her book of course because if you have a cheat like that you're going to Avail yourself of it a lot in fact I even brought it with me here tonight I keep it with me because I you know you hope for a good haunting that's what I've said because when you play somebody who really lived you're almost asking for permission to hopefully not piss them off hopefully not disappoint them hopefully uh you know who knows where we go when we go but at the same time she left an indelible mark on a lot of people's lives and she she helped Truman capot get his his uh first I think it was million dooll deal which was unheard of but he had never uh written a screenplay before but he for his um In Cold Blood to be made into a film and uh he said would you be my agent and she said I'm not an agent but they were such good friends they traveled the world together and because of her connections with Hemingway and all of this and of course Howard Hawks and and that era and then later Leland Hayward who was the love of her life um and you know the Betrayal came later but the fun times were really really fun and they were really confidants and supporters of one another and you need help you need support and you need that's what it's all about who you know isn't that what they say so she did agent for him got him the million-dollar deal and then she said now go be with Swifty Lazar and Swifty didn't want to give her her portion of the deal and she said no you've gotta pay me I did my part and yeah funny funny story I mean I love that you already said cheats I think this is a room full of actors we want to know all the cheats all the actly tricks and techniques that's what I'm going to really be asking you about so it sounds like the question I think in this case is like how do you approach playing real people how did Slim maybe compare to other real life figures that you've played and what should actors know about how to research a real life person in like yourself saying like honor them well obviously these days there's the internet um but I think you want firsthand knowledge of the person as much as you can get so you want people who were friends of them or you want if if you can get a firsthand account that's ideal uh right out of the horse's mouth I mean I think in case she probably withheld a lot she was pretty judiciously self-editing uh based on what had happened to her with Truman I think you know uh and and also knowing how to leave the world with a kind Comet tale behind you you know you want to leave beneficently kindly toward others and not speak ill of anyone and if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all type of thing and so she had class and uh operated in in that in that way I'm not sure if that's a tip I'm just talking about Slim So Okay but you did have a firsthand account right you met women from this era well I was funny because Jane Fonda is a dear friend and she said oh my God you're playing slim and I didn't realize but her uh stepmom was good friends with slim Jane knows everybody well I mean slim would be 101 now so that's kind you know Jane had a young stepmom as tends to happen uh and so you know that not that much old you know not much you this huge 40-year gap or something that like you get with some moms but anyway I digress but so that that must have been part of the research the book some firsthand accounts from these women who who were in that era or who you you gave a quote about you met people who still had the the aura of betrayal from Truman capot which must have informed this performance well I I think we've all you can draw on your own experience of being disappointed by somebody violating your trust um that we all have a v diagram that we can fit in there uh and it's just to what ex extreme I mean what had happened with the ES article that came out which was this snippet of his book that he had started writing he didn't finish it obviously um but it it was as though he had used Slim's thinly veiled slim to be the mouthpiece for the gossip that was in the article so it made it seem as though she had been the one to say these dastardly things about people and and it really was puant I mean it was it was intensely to this day I I haven't read anything that was as harsh in its in its scathing kind of I don't know how somebody gets that angry I think you have to that's why we're still trying to figure out Truman capot because how you get to there from where he was hurt people hurt people and so the Brilliance of this piece I think is of course the examination that was given through John Robin Bates beautiful John Robbie Bates call him Robbie um uh exploration of the core wound what did Freud say if it's not one thing it's your mother so here comes Jessica Lang and she's going to show you how that mother was and I she was just can we take a moment I mean yeah amazing I think if if Jessica Lang is our Freudian mother then it's just like we did something right in our child if like the ghost of Jessica leg that would be just fine um you mentioned the fashion I definitely want to ask for this outside in versus inside out I don't know if that's something that resonates with you but in terms of your actorly process where does costuming hair wigs makeup all of that go in especially for I assume a period piece and and a a piece about real people yeah oh well I mean we have a lot of nominations for all the wonderful work of the departments that that Shone so brightly with their efforts and the money's on the screen I mean thank you Ryan Murphy for giving the money that is required and New York City can we give it up for New York City because honestly to tell this story and try to fake New York in another town we see it happen a lot and this was not that so we got to go to the actual real places and some of the s were authentic to the story and that helps a great deal to be vibing the aura of I don't know there's this theory that sound the energy of sound it may become imperceptible but it stays as an energy perhaps in perpetuity it's just can you measure it as it gets smaller and smaller so I think it's still The Vibes are there um you can go to a place that's haunted in a negative way or positive way or whatever judgments but it's available to you so New York has a lot to draw on energetically you can tap into Serpico whatever you want they got it all New York New York um yeah all the different eras all the different eras that New York has given us on film I'm not sure if I'm remembering your question well in terms of the fashion does oh the fashion yeah so I wanted I wanted to talk I wanted to talk about the brilliant work that Lou IR did and her entire amazing Department I mean the costumes in this were so key you know as an actor you show up and everybody has their own portal of of way of getting into the character and for me costumes is the first time that you get to say hey we got to get real how does she dress herself because that's a choice that you make I've read some article and remember Cosmo okay Cosmo and it said something about how 85% of first impressions are based on hair well you have a great haircut oh thank you Diane the very first thing she said to me was your hair shorter noticed I did you but anyway but it's true that so these things matter it's what all these things really tell a lot about a person whether it's you know intentional in our case or not maybe intentional in the character's case but in these women's case everything is a statement especially because they have this reputation to live up to um and they're representing and they're representing themselves and they come from another era it's so interesting to see these people whose Heyday I suppose you know 50s even the 40s little bit in the 30s um all the way into the 60s and now we see them in the 1970s and you kind of cleave to what worked best for you and you might even not look like you're uron anymore you just sort of still look like you did when you thought you looked your best so you're still dressing like that um fair so with the hats and the gloves disappearing um it it was just a bit it was a bit of a loss I think for how we carry ourselves I remember all history when you'd see men with hats and ladies with Hats um I was at uh some place and I saw these old photographs and it just you know parasoles when have you seen a parasol we need them more now than ever I think we should bring the parasol back all right am I saying that right well yeah I don't even know okay but so then I imagine so if you're saying it's an important First Step what about for a project like where an actor doesn't get their costuming until the day of like you must have had that too of course like how do you then have you ever had an instance of a costume completely changing how you've approached or developed a character o last minute lots of good stories there I mean I I remember one time this is about a wig um I did the you know you have a few days where they do the the costume and the makeup and the hair and they want to photograph it first before they commit it to film and they share it with the studio heads they can say well look we're working we we've gotten this far this is how the actors are going to look in character um and I guess there was a stunt wig and there was the real wig because stuff has to happen and the stunt wig you don't want to use the precious one that's good for close-ups and I I was laughing and kidding around it's MOS M out sound right and I looked so happy and and and the studio executive was like I want her in that wig and I was like I didn't know anything about this first day of filming first day of filming the director comes into the trailer and he's like um I'm very sorry to tell you this but we need you in the other way and I said wait we've we've spent so much time perfecting this other wig and it had a little gray hair in it it was authentic to the character and I really I'm on a I'm I'm I'm very tenacious about that because I feel like there are women who dye their hair and there are women who don't and if you're playing a woman of a certain age hello you know and you're in another era you don't look like this so let's make it look like she would look but they wanted that platinum blonde and I was dancing around in it and kidding around and I so I he left the trailer and the and the and the hair and people and I were like what are you going to do and I said I don't think they'll know the difference put the real one on okay so I come out of the trailer and he says you lied to me I trusted you and you lied to me and this is our first day of filming it was really bad it was so bad I had to go back and they had to wait while I changed wigs but it's I was really I cared you know it's a lesson in picking your battles maybe is is picking your battles well they had to bring that ratty wig up to Snuff and the first week I looked like I had a bell on my head was mortified it's hopefully hidden in the film somewhere so you can't really tell she's having a very stiff hair day it happens actors know best I think actresses know best especially About Wigs um can I ask then at the point in the process where it's co-stars this is where I can ask about Treat Williams because I feel like you can do all your preparation you can do the costuming in the wigs you're ready to play in this case slim where does a Naomi Watts factor in where does a Treat Williams factor in like how do you then how much are you discovering on the day is the question okay I don't know how much Naomi has shared with you about her her process but it was extraordinary the contact lens the the the the the the the teeth the the just so much to I it's it's got to be kind of like roller skating on ice it's like make up your mind are you ice skating or you're roller skating you're going to do both okay it's a lot she brought a lot and to make it well because the true babe py was very full of artifice herself she'd had this tragic accident and had false teeth and um that was you know so she had a lot to work with and it's fun but you need time with it so you don't sound like you have dentures in you got to practice with the Dentures yeah so you don't whistle and weird things happen but uh she oh man she was like a piece of porcelain meets Crystal meets I don't know what so delicate and so refined h i I love I loved her babe I I miss babe I mean I I didn't get to hang out with Naomi you know one day we're going to we keep texting one day we're going to have a glass of wine as ourselves and just dish a little you know but we got to uh experience each other in character and it was it was lovely I mean everybody was in it was sort of I call it like Russian dolls it felt like we were a person within a person within a person within a person and so you're having these you don't know when it's safe to use your inner layer doll or are you in your outer layer self because we had a lot of time sitting at the table waiting and you don't want to start a cacklefest when somebody's preparing you know hey how about that headline you know or whatever who right so so you try to reserve space and hold space for your actors because just because you're okay making small talk doesn't mean somebody else is and that's huge because you don't get a lot of takes uh uh so you want to make sure that you're in it together so you're kind of holding space together if I could I would hold hands just so that we're really truly rooted and grounded together but that would be a little uncomfortable hold my hand would you hold my hand but I think being being respectful of other actors methods or recognizing that people have other methods it's very key and it sounds like in this case it was such an immersive experience the spell right that's so cool although it was safe and fair game for Tom to do that because after all he's playing Truman so he could he could guide us and he could it was okay for him to lead the charge on okay now we're just going to talk you know and then we were like okay we're going to because he had such a large load to carry um I remember when he said I it was our first kind of meeting with Gus VanZant and some other folks and we were in Robbie Bates was there the writer and we were all very you can't quite exhale enough so that you can inhale it's like and uh and uh nervous uh but trying to be cool but not too cool and he said I think I found the voice for Truman you know and and we all I just wanted to can we hear it but I didn't ask I was like oh it's got to feel so good because that's the biggest of all when you have such a distinctive uh piece of historical voice to and to and to make it your own obviously because there have been other magnificent portrayals of this famous man anyway must have been very exciting for him I was thrilled for him I kind of like I don't know about you guys but I kind of like hearing di Lane getss nervous I think that's actually very comforting for other actors oh sure you know I don't wear satin because I sweat wait is it like a rule oh yeah oh wait that's amazing it's amazing that talk about costuming and forming character and all of that no sometimes well what they'll do is they'll put like sweat guards in because they turn off the air oh yeah because it's audible so now you're just breathing each other's exhales and you're slowly melted and there's makeup and your makeup is dripping and you're I I don't mind the Heat and all the embarrassing things that come from sweating but I just don't want to get stupid from lack of oxygen especially if you have a lot of words and it or or or tight cues or camera moves that especially those you know I thought oh I guess my Line's going to happen off camera you know you know uh okay you just roll with it just roll with it I'm not going to wait until like I'm on camera to say my line you know um but these we could talk honestly about this stuff right no yeah and it's great you go with the flow you just say well that's an off camera line didn't picture like that it's going to be fine um can I ask about what Treat Williams was like as a co-star it's it's so sad that he he passed away before this show could come out it is and he was really extraordinary in it and I have to say the reveal that you're two characters are sleeping together was well we were kind of shocked like we that was a that was sprung on us okay and I was think I didn't see this in the slim biography autobiography I didn't see any piece of gossip about this um but you know you've got to if my analogy is they give you cards to play and they're going to film the um the card game like like a poker game and you're holding your cards and you think you know what you're doing and then you say wait I'm holding a what and now we're going to do what and you're saying oh okay I think I would have done something a little different in the earlier bits but you roll with it man you just got to roll with it so um I I decided that slim was a very good actress because she had hid it so well I but you know well she's familiar with Hollywood so that I mean that makes sense definitely and she didn't want to be an actress and I thought well maybe it's like my mom where she did it in life instead of which we all do I think that might be true I think that must be true when my father was driving a cab for money he said I'm playing the part of a cabie this is what I do all day I start talking like this and uh it was very funny i' be riding the cab with him and I would be like Dad I like this side of you it really fun this been a real study to be sitting in a cab while your while your dad drives people around they get in the cab and they like is this okay is she being kidnapped I was like no it's my dad it's cool just say it every riding shotgun in the front seat okay he's a seven-year-old in the car it's going to be fine anyway um but so what was Treat Williams like treat was and in you know in some ways will always be because it's the last time you see somebody was the last time you see them you very much remember how they made you feel and and he literally was the most joyful actor I have ever worked with he loved his craft he was at the top of his game he valued this opportunity so much he talked about that he shared his Delight he was open about it I think he had cycled through many phases of his own life as a man as an actor as a parent as a spouse all the things and he was in a very joyful place so you know he he he shared he was a is the word gregarius I mean you know he he he was a rantor you know and you're in the trailer and and and you hear that voice before you even get in the trailer you're like oh he's in there good I can hear some funny stories because he he was always sharing in stories and um he loved his family tremendously and talked about that he flew a plane at the end he he gave me a gift basket of all the things from Vermont because that's where he was living for a long time and you know you had the maple syrup and you had the the crackers and the thing and a sweet handwritten note just so caring and so sweet and and that that's who he is that was not I would never be telling the story obviously except that you know he's not with us so you all ought to know how sweet he really really really really was yeah yeah thank you for sharing yeah thank you for sharing and and what I mean it's partly because I'm with People magazine that I ask questions like this but can I also if you want to go there can I ask about Jenna rolands I wish you would okay okay because uh it's so recent that we lost Jenna Roland just yesterday and of course you knew her and you knew John cetes as well and what memories come to mind or no John but what happened oh but he worked with your father Yes it was the it was the cassavetes lane Theater Workshop and they taught acting and that's where my dad met Jenna and he would talk about Jenna because Jenna had just she was then working as an usherette at the Carnegie theater and she wore a pill box hat and white little gloves and I can imagine what a cookie she must have been but um just irresistible with her charm and her special speaking voice and just everything about her so warm and open um and of course John stole Jenna from my dad I heard about that story and then John tried to steal my mother from my dad oh yeah oh yeah this was the 50s 1957 58 54 56 I don't know and in there and you know the workshop was amazing but Jenna so I I used to think and people would say to me you know she could have wound up being your mom was a close call and I thought oh my God I would never ever say that out loud until I got to work with Jenna rolles and she came up to me and she goes you could have been my daugh and I have Goosebumps all over me right now standing up my arm hair and everything I was still I'm still under this makeup I'm blushing hard I mean I geeked out I totally geeked out because she's an icon of Cinema and you know my Dad and John made Shadows together the first film and um just the stories the stories I heard it was gorilla film making I mean my dad would they they' take the headlights out of the cars and hold them and they'd get hot and like okay you got 10 minutes before I I'm going to sue you for my burned hands you know holding the lights uh yeah and and and my dad would say he was mad he was mad at John because he JN became a movie star instead of sticking with the theater with the um teaching acting group that that they had formed and he said John took the wheels and left me the chassis I know I was sitting there like 8 years old listening to these stories alone with my dad but um yeah so Jenna was always part of my family lore and there is a story where Paul mzeri was going to cast me and something with John and my mother said Over My Dead Body I was like I didn't know there's a story there I don't know I never got to hear the whole thing so that goes the book that I'll have to dig deeper and get some scoop on that People magazine needs that book yeah actually it'll be a short chapter but Jenna you know she she lives on and I actually took out um I had visions of myself bringing it here but that was just way too bizarre behavior so I didn't do it but it's a sub terine that she she didn't steal it okay she asked permission and kept it from props but so she stole it from the film and she said here this is our momento because we worked together and that was a big part of our scenes together and it's been in my kitchen all this time and I've never served in it because I don't know how to serve from a soup to you need the proper Ladle and all that it's too precious exactly but I pulled it out today and I and I looked at it and it's still out in my kitchen and I'm so happy I have it and I I don't know actors you know sometimes we pill for things because we get attached we get attached and hard to let go I'm hearing more and more it just happens all the time I only took a book one time from a shelf yeah it is that thing though where you you do as that character own that object so you of course you feel some ownership over it I suppos anyway we have to leave soon but can I ask you that the question that we love asking at sag after Foundation which is about auditions cuz we haven't really talk about auditions maybe back in the child acting days but maybe recently auditions do you have like a worst audition Horror Story just something that everyone can relate to or just that go-to trauma well actually it was a Treat Williams film oh and it was Milos foran and it was hair and I was 12 or something or 13 maybe 14 I don't know CU I hadn't done a film yet so I was 12 and um I had worked with hippies I can say that uh because that's what they were to me it was a very you know 1971 72 there were two groups of people there were the establishment folks and the not establishment folks and when I joined the l Mama experimental theater group started by Ellen Stewart on East Fourth Street in Manhattan it's still there and they do great work um they I walked in and I was like Dad they're hippies and he's like yep just going in you know uh and this was going somewhere and I'm trying to remember the question oh the audition process so I mean I would just go around and I'd hear about stuff and I'd show up it was something to do after school you know and and I managed to get in and and and there was a piano and they wanted me to sing and I was like oh it's a musical not feeling very confident now um another time I had to sing I am 16 going on 17 for Rogers of Rogers and Hammerstein for him for him he was in the theater and I think I made it one bar and he's like next mortifying to this day I won't sing for anyone ever you will never find me in a karaoke but scarred it's okay you have a caliber of audition Horror Story that most people are not going to reach Richard Rogers just next yeah that's just brutal that was harsh and and and and the piano there was a piano opportunity to sing at the for hair and I didn't get the memo it was a musical cuz I was 12 I just wanted to hang out and be in a cool movie you know why not I was like I can hang out I'm the youngest in the theater group of of hippies this is what you're doing and I can be the youngest in your group there I'll just follow along and you know eat a candy bar in the background I don't need any lines um I don't know um well you've done such amazing work since you were 12 so thank you for sharing with us some of these insights into so much such an honor thanks for being here I'm thrilled thank you so much and thank you you all right