Georgia's Gitmo: Fulton Commission Chair Robb Pitts, full interview Atlanta News First Investigates

well Mr chairman thank you so much for agreeing to do this let me say this now before we my take on all this is probably a little different I'm an outl I've been around a long time so you can no well that's why I'm sitting down here because you've you've seen it and I'm the yeah I'm the messenger in this case okay all right well let's talk about I'd love to get your reaction to some numbers that I have dug up to get your reaction um according to the Superior Court Clerk uh she pulled some uh current backlog numbers of cases um right now there are a total of 23,000 unindicted and indicted cases that are simply waiting to go to trial that's a 5,000 increase since just December MH um in jail individuals at jail considering this is the focus of our story how did we get here uh there were a total of 12,000 individuals who were detained at the jail um excuse me 1,200 individuals who were detained at the jail just two months ago that were simply waiting to be indicted these are individuals that have not been charged yet what's your reaction to these numbers well I'm no expert in the numbers but I've been around a long time and there were and there's a lot of finger pointing going on and on and the public is very focused on this uh on this issue and here's what uh elected officials say privately here's what the public will tell you and me and the public privately and to each other that uh first and foremost uh there are around a third of the inmates in our jail shouldn't be there in the first place meaning they're there for Mr meters spitting on the street small amounts of marijuana Mr me this is factual the criminal justice people the da the solicitor the judges will say that well they may their latest arrest may just be a misdemeanor but behind the misdemeanor they've committed other crimes that's the reason now I disagree with that well the numbers that I just got talking about the misemer numbers according to the sheriff just last week of the 3,000 or so individuals detained or in his custody I think only less than 200 of them were actually charged with misdemeanor that's not what I'm told I mean when I talk when well you said well separate misdemeanors and those who are there who just not had their day in court that's that number I'm talking about 800 1200 they they point fingers at each other all the time we the board we get caught in the middle we have to try to massage the numbers whatever the number is it's too many there shouldn't be anyone in that Facility Who has not been charged now we're talking about building a new jail to solve an overcrowding problem which is nonsense if the jail is overcrowded why is it overcrowded that's the question that you answered that needs to be answered and I think think this story or at least the data that I have shows that one of the contributing factors is the backlog of cases I'm going to throw out some other numbers to you get re understand I understand I understand the backlog issue we have given millions of dollars to the criminal justice system to solve the backlog problem preco and during Co and we've done a good job uh with that money and reducing the number of uh cases done a magnificent job but crime is alive and well the problem still is with the justices system is not the conditions in the jail the con reason for the jail being overcrowded If we're honest is that those who are responsible for processing those in jail through the system are not doing their jobs are you talking about the da judges I'm talking about the da I'm talking about the solicitor and I'm talking about the judges and I'm the messenger here I'm friends with all of them but you've asked me a direct question and I told you I was going to be very direct I'm not saying anything to you that I haven't said to them and I have not said publicly um the da needs to indict she has her priorities uh we don't control what the da does we don't interfere with what she does but it's just a fact there are thousands in that jail who should be processed out of our jail same thing for the solicitor he will have his reasons why then the judges we track we monitor what the judges do some work some do not some come to work at 10:00 in in the morning go to lunch at 12:00 and play golf we've monitored this the judges who are working come to my office and tell me which ones are working which ones are not working the reason is they can do what they choose to do because the public doesn't care the public doesn't give a damn it's the Public's fault for re when when is the last time a judge has been defeated so you're saying what I hear you saying is that the reason why you're blaming the public is because they keep reelecting these individuals these same individuals over and so which judges are we talking about well I can give you a list of them what I've tried to get um my uh colleagues here to do and our County manager and we we post it on our website but how many people look at a website to look at what a judge I proposed let's take an ad in the AJC on a weekly basis a full page ad and list what judges are working and which ones are not now they go nuts every time I say that why do they go nuts because that that way people would look for instead of going to the sports page they would go to to see what the judges are doing that's the only way to resolve this problem we have this thing called a uh constitutional officers and that means that to some extent that's the da the sheriff Superior Court for a few others they believe and the and the words legal words probably support them that uh no one can tell them what to do except the voters we the board we're not the bosses we're not the DA's boss we're not the sheriff's boss we're not the solicitor's boss we certainly aren't the judges boss only the people can tell them what to do we provide the funds for them and we've been more than generous uh with the criminal justice system in fact probably one of the worst things that happened was when we Fon County received $26 million of that Federal money arpa money we call it and of that money uh we gave $75 million of that to the justices system to address this exact problem that you're talking about and yesterday at our meeting commissioner Ellis Vice chair Ellis said and I agree that in spite of all of that there's been some progress with some of the preco case load backlog but if you measure what they've done there has been no measurable increase in them doing their job so we have a major problem and the only group that can solve that problem are the voters of Fulton County period so you're saying that despite giving the Judiciary the criminal justice system 75 million extra extra over and above what we the problem has actually gotten worse it is well they they've done a little better from from the point of view of the total number of backlog cases that there were preco and since Co but I'm talking about now if you look at what's happening in that jail they're there and again you have to ask the question why why is the jail overcrowded I mean obviously crime is alive and well I'm not denying that but there are still people and we can argue about how many whether they are misdemeanor or felons or etc etc but there shouldn't be one person in that Jail uh who shouldn't be there and we've uh now we then some will blame the Atlanta police uh department and other police departments but primarily uh the Atlanta Police Department for you know for arresting people and not taking them to the diversion centers and you know this issue of quoted all of these things it's always this finger pointing while we're finger pointing those of us who are elected you still have individuals if it's one that's too many nobody should be in that Jail who's not there now we talk about a new jail and you talk about the conditions of the jail well that's just pure BS I mean I can take you in there and show you and take you to the worst cell there there should be no cell should look like the ones that you keep seeing on on TV well why is that because we let it run down why do you let it run down we on a new jail I can take you to Federal to the federal penitentiary over here on McDonald Boulevard and I'm very familiar with that because my uncle used to be the deputy Warden what it look like then and what it looks like today I mean it looks like a a hospital in there where the inmates did the work uh they take pride in it so I'm I'm just you know I get frustrated talking about this because we keep talking about it and until the voters get up in arms about this and I think this story should do a great go a long ways and toward in terms of educating the public about what the problem is a new brand new jail is not going to solve the problem if you don't have good Management in that jail um I'm going to throw out some other numbers that I'd like to get your reaction to um as of last week there were um 19 people who have been in the jail waiting 5 years or longer for their trial 142 individuals waiting 3 years or more and 690 people who have been waiting there at least a year we found a guy who had been waiting 13 years he is in the jail right now and he has waited more than 13 years for his trial date what's your reaction I can believe it it's not the board of commissioner's fault knowing that these backlogs exist would a new jail matter absolutely not if if if if the people who are in charge of processing people through that jail if they're not doing their jobs we can build we can make uh put them in the rich Carlton for example you know color TVs in each room you know whatever uh if if if the folk who have the responsibility for processing them through from the jail to the uh to the cours you talk to them it's it's just finger pointing once again but the facts are and the numbers don't lie and you're you're talking about specifically the DA's office and judges you're talking about that processing of getting them to trial and out of the jail is that that's correct that's correct that's correct but it's not and don't leave out the solicitor now the sheriff will argue that uh he has to manage them while they're in the jail and he's short of uh you know short of deputies which is probably true every department is short of deputies in the country that's just a problem we have to deal with but there's still a management problem in our jail in my judgment is there anything that the county could be doing anything more I know that you've said that you uh the County Commission has allocated $75 million in coid funding to help alleviate you're saying it's not making that big of a difference I well we it made it made a difference from the point of view of reducing some of those cases but overall I don't think it's made a difference I mean the the numbers showed that they've increased I mean as of December there were 18,000 total indicted and unducted cases it's risen 5,000 as of just in August you got to process him I mean we we keep arresting him you just you just can't have people sitting here ACLU and others will tell you I mean they're very adamant about this that we got people that who shouldn't be there in the first place and that's probably true do we need more judges do we need more prose well we another judge could probably help but but more more more important is uh uh uh judges who work judges who work and we know which ones work and which ones do not it's public information we track it which one place it well I'm going to give you I'm going to give you can look at it for yourself post it so you're saying there are Judges simply not doing their jobs and this is contributing to the problem absolutely absolutely and the reason I know this is because we track it and other judges call me and come here and tell me that they get you know U criticized they're doing their jobs but the their fellow judges uh are not and these are elected judges yes so who do you blame can't blame the Board of Commissioners you blame the folk who vote for them well it it and once they in why why not just place the blame on the individuals not the public I mean the public is as you know there is very little scrutiny about what judges do that's correct there and there in lies the problem there should be and I think that this story uh I think is going to go a long ways in helping the public to understand that they I've spoke to the Chamber of Commerce this when had the same story and you sit there you know big fat cats in suits and complain but you keep contributing to these same men and women they get elected and reelected and the situation doesn't get any better and a new facility does not solve the overcrowding problem just as this jail reportedly the day that it opened it was outdated and we build this new $2 billion Jail uh 1.8 billion it's going to be outdated the day it opens the day it opens Prime is alive and well um I profiled or we covered two different court cases that really illustrate this issue that I'd love to get your thoughts on on both ends of the spectrum of the consequences of um waiting so long in jail for your trial date there was a gentleman um who waited his name is Diaz Sanders he waited almost 10 years for his trial date he unconscionable how I mean how does someone charge with processing people people who have been accused not tried and convicted yet accused of a crime how do you live with yourself he was ultimately convicted we spoke to the family of the victims who have been waiting years for justice um that were frustrated with this delay on the flip side of this there's a gentleman that we spoke with and covered his trial his name is DeAnthony tobert he waited in the jail 4 and A2 years for his trial date and in July he was found not guilty by a jury that's my point no one should be in there longer than they than the law requires them without being having their case heard it's just unconscionable when how do you live with yourself when you hear these stories do you think that we have a constitutional crisis well I'd say you can call it and whatever whatever label you want to put on it but until you force those who are have that responsibility to do their jobs we have a problem and it goes back to they're elected and once you're elected you have the freedom to do pretty much anything you want to do people point to and and the reason we get concern because it's the Fulton County Jail that carries the name of Fulton County we're the Board of Commissioners of Fon County so the public believes that we control what they do that we are their bosses nothing could be further from the truth and they remind us of that every day you are not my boss you are to give us the money to do our jobs which we do but the results listen to what Vice chair Ellis had to say yesterday uh does the District Attorney's Office play a part in this as well and I asked that because she's been criticized for taking these very large multi-defendant cases uh indictments uh there's the YSL trial there's the um election interference trial these multiple multiple definite trials that she has said publicly that she wants to take the trial uh sooner than later meaning take the within from indictment the trial within months while there are defendants in the jail who have been charged with more serious crimes murder that have been waiting years for their trial is that fair and do you think that the district attorney plays a part into this as well I've said me district attorney solicitor and the judges now we don't don't tell them what they do she has discretion of uh how she runs her office her predecessor had discretion of how he ran that office the next district attorney unless the Law changes will have discretion as to how that office is run it's the district attorney it's the solicitor and the judges we do not control uh how they run their offices she can choose to prosecute whoever she chooses to prosecute I may have a different opinion and uh they Ian they've talking about this as the State now as to well we can't it always comes back to they are elected and they can run their offices as they see fit and that's what they do I think they will push back or at least the sheriff so far oh they are going each one is going to push back and say you know they have the the the the discretion to run their offices as they see fit and that's what they're doing you can't argue with that I just disagree with the results they'll not only say that I believe but but what at least the sheriff has told me so far is that they'll say this problem existed before I was elected same thing with the da same thing with the judges that this is a there was a backlog before they were elected and and and currently so is it is it their fault now or is it years of it coming to a head and the pandemic sort of exposed the problem that already existed in a way that had never seen before buck stops with the person who's in the position now when you run for these positions you make promises you should know what the conditions are you can't blame everything on your predecessor you have to deal what's that Kenny Rogers song Got A Deal play to hand your dealt and stop complaining it's just like when they get in office one day and then two weeks later they want a salary increase well you know what the salary was before you ran we're the largest county in the state I should be paid more than my cter Parts in counties with smaller populations you know what your job is at least you should know before you run the voters vote for people because they go to the same they worship together the kids go to school together the kids play soccer together they were fraternity Brothers they were sorority sisters the voters are at fault in all of this from my perspective for electing and reelecting the same people if you get these same results it's your fault and I have to get back to that I mean that that might be a hard pill to swallow for viewers in the public thinking well we expect you to do better don't blame us for simply trusting you to do the job not not the Board of Commissioners we talking about now the da solicitor and the judges we don't run the jail we don't indict people we don't charge people none of that we're trying to solve a problem by by providing the resources which we have been very generous with is there anything and that's said we get again yeah in addition to the regular the what we do from a general fund point of view that's the largest portion of our budget goes to the criminal justice system but in in addition to that we gave of the $26 million that we received which I probably wish you never had gotten from the federal government $75 million without any discussion gave it to the uh for for to the uh those in charge of the what we so what we refer to as our Criminal Justice part Partners to address this problem there were some successes but your numbers indicate ours numbers indicate there is a problem and if if if there's one person in that jail who should not be there that's one too many if you're the loved one of and I've had people in fact I may have one still in our jail so I know from what I'm talking about if money isn't fixing the problem what needs to be done different people in the offices goes back to the electorate people vote for these people in these in these positions and they have different priorities I mean the circumstances change I mean you know I don't know how I would have handled the uh you know the Trump situation the YSL situation I probably would have been a little more Le um a little more favorable to to getting rid of those who've been sitting there forever and that's the problem you have to deal with and I'm sure that the da wrestled with this I mean if she had we if if if we could double her staff uh maybe that would uh would um help has she asked for that not double but we've given her that extra $75 million sheriff wants a new jail I don't think a new jail solves the problem so and I can't get have to say this right AC across the street spitting distance from here is a it's what's called ACDC Atlanta City Detention Center commonly known as a city jail 1,300 beds before we entered into this agreement with the jail they were using probably 25 of those beds a night M 1,300 beds our agreement with them now after a fight they allow us the city of Atlanta allows us to use up to 700 of those beds we pay for it and we have to staff it I've offered to buy that jail Council they want to tear it down and build a Diversion Center it would be a travesty to tear down a perfectly usable facility right across the street from where we are conducting this interview when we need those beds now and we'll need them in the future why in the world would you even think about tearing that jail down and spend 1.8 to2 billion and that's just on the construction of a new jail when you got a 1,300 beds right across the street that we can use sell the damn jail to us now and we wouldn't need to build a new jail renovate R Street which we can do stop showing the worst sales in that Jail uh to the public so the public and and this guy who died uh with a bug infestation how in the world can you have deputies who are supposed to be monitoring the inmates if you just got one Deputy monitoring these sales hourly daily can that happen for weeks at a time and someone would not look in a sale and see what's going on to me that's management and we've paid dearly for it and there's more coming you don't have any control over the criminal justice system what the DA's office does what the judges do we don't have control but we provide the funds so you you manage the purse strings that's correct and we've been very generous and I guess what I'm getting at is is like have you been appropriating funds inappropriately where they're asking you for money you give it to them and it's still not working like when when do you get to the point where you say we we keep giving you money money but the results aren't changing that's what was said at the meeting yesterday loudly and clearly by Vice chair Ellis we provided the funds uh what are the results we've been more than generous with the funds and in fact in some cases we will provide funds for purpose a but they're spent on purpose B and the reason what's an example what do you mean a and what's a and what's the I mean well say we say we say let's say one of these Sheriff comes to us and say he wants that money for more officers we give it to him well he may use it for some other purpose that he feels is has a more of a pressing need and in the reason for this this goes back to we talking about a constitutional officer they believe that once we give them money they have the freedom to spend that money as they see fit to do their jobs and the law problem I don't agree with the law the words probably support their position but I just philosophically do not believe that the sheriff or the da can spend the money that we appropriate any way that they see fit I think that that money needs to be spent based upon the reasons that we appropriate to money to them in the first place first place based upon when they come for us and request money for a specific purpose and we Grant it that's what it should be used for so the the conversations that you're having with the judges with the DA's office with the sheriff what are they telling you is the contributing factors to this backlog and the issue that ultimately lands at the jail like what are they telling you is the issue and and the resources that they need well they say they they're they're working hard which is not true not for all of them some are some take their jobs very seriously and work very hard others do not and it's and and it the answer to this problem is not a new facility I have to get back to that and it's also releasing those who shouldn't be in our jail in the first place they know who they are so you don't want a new jail and you're advocating not to build a new jail I I don't think we need a new jail I think we can renovate what we have first in the first place if we release those who shouldn't be there in the first place and we purchase the Atlanta City Jail uh we have the Union City Jail which could and should have been renovated we spent money renovating the jail in Alpharetta uh it has I think 50 plus uh beds up there how many people do you think are in that jail two or three a night misdemeanor stuff so let's let's say the city never sells the jail never rents out or leases it out uh and the jail conditions remain the same well the conditions I mean we we're Ren we're we're we're constantly renovating uh that jail but you start with uh releasing those who shouldn't be there and I'm no expert in this but the numbers say and and and and those who are experts say that there is about a third of them who could be released that solves the overcrowding problem right there if that's true and when you say release you mean either simply releasing them free them put them in diversion programs or sending them to the prison after they're assuming that's correct the the other thing we've not talked about is that there there are any number of them who have mental health problems and that's another problem that's where the state has a role to play in this we and we were all in agreement on this that we're probably we're the largest Mental Health institution in the state of Georgia sherff told I mean combined with all of so but but and that's a problem where the state needs to do more with respect to mental health we're doing our part with that we're opening a new facility here that we're putting money in and thanks to the state that's a really a joint venture between us and the state but that's just a start but there's a again uh any number of inmates and it's probably true for for all jails they have either substance abuse problems or mental health problems who shouldn't be there because of that so that's another group that could be released but where do you where do they go now we're we're going to make a small dent in that based upon our investment in the facility right down the road called uh Oak Hill but the state needs it needs to do more and the governor uh and the u u Jan Jones represent representative Jan Jones helped us this year and so we're great very grateful for that but but that's a another part of the problem the mental those inmates who have mental health problems what do we they need they don't need to be in a Fulton County Jail they that's part of that third that you're talking about that's right that's right what are we not talking about as it specifically relates to how the backlog is impacting the jail what are we not talking about what are we not talking about is there anything that we're not talking about not at all we covered it yeah we covered it um is there anything that you think the public misunderstands that you want to add Clarity to when involves they miss they misunderstand at the Board of Commissioners that we are the bosses of The Da the sheriff and the judges nothing can be further from the truth and not a day goes by when they don't remind us of that our job is to provide them with the funds that they need and which we do very generously and fact we appropriated again 75 million of the 206 million that we received in ARA coid funds from the federal government specifically to the justice department and according to my uh Vice chair uh who's done great research in this area and nobody disagrees with with with his findings in terms of the number of unindicted we made different we say I've heard the da say that's 800 we say 12200 uh we said we argue about whether they're felons or misdemeanor of charges and whether or not if you're in there for a misdemeanor there may be a felony charge behind the misdemeanor the most recent charge may be uh a misdemeanor so we're more concerned about the Felon all of that may be true but my point is if there's one person in there who shouldn't be in there that's one too many all right thank you chairman appreci you any time