Ellie Simmonds and Jonny Wilkinson talk mental health | Vitality UK

Introduction hi my name is yetunde and I'm the lead mental health and well-being coach at Vitality So today we're just going to talk about that really important relationship between our physical health and our mental health and how it's heavily intertwined so whether it's yoga running going for a walk it's long been researched that mental health benefit that comes from physical health and um physical activity and our movement so recent Vitality member uh data actually showed that those members who exercise up to three times a week had a 10% lower risk of developing depression and anxiety so I'm here with two people who've had firsthand experience uh with the impact of movement and physical activity on the mind so we've got Ellie Simmons and we've got Johnny Wilkinson and we're just going to be exploring that relationship uh how to overcome mental health challenges uh how to motivate yourself and how you look after yourselves in terms of your mental health now as well so supp first question to you Ellie what does mental health mean to you I think mental health is is the mind and I think mental health What does mental health mean to you? is looking after that mind in any shape or form what works for you what doesn't work for you just looking after yourself both mentally but also that correlates with physically as well I think mentally for me looking after myself is having that Balanced Life making sure everything is balanced from making Mak sure work's all okay whether look at making sure family's okay friends are okay having that me time as well having that time where I can just go in my home and just have time to myself putting some candles on putting some good music on and cooking you know do things even cleaning I know sometimes that can stress people out but I love cleaning for me when I clean I feel like my head is clean and it's just looking at things that make you feel good and looking after your mental health and especially now since retiring well I've been retired keep feeling like I've retired yesterday but I've been tired now just under three years for me exercise I see is different for before it was exercise was my job it's a thing I absolutely love to do but it's a thing that I used to do nine times a week in the water and then gym sessions and yoga and all that whereas now exercise for me is that mental Escape it's that chance to I go for a swim once a week half an hour in the pool put my phone to the side just me in that water for half an hour and I do Pilates too I do at the gym but for me looking after my mental health is just making sure everything is in balance and things are and I'm happy and I think that again all correlates oh that's lovely uh Johny what about you um I think for me mental health represents kind of limits I think um deep down I think we all on on a very deep level recognize that we are such immense beings and yet when we come into contact with what is limiting us I think we feel that stress um and the stronger those limits against what it is we really feel about ourselves and against what we really want in life I think the more we we feel it and uh so for me I think we all experience it whether it's just a slightly bad mood whether it's a story in our minds that says oh today is going to be like this that's mental health whether it's memories we've got of the past which are still hurting whether it's you know the imagin of the future which is hurting us I think we all have that yeah um but just obviously there's a scale where people experience it but for me I think challenging those limits I think when we do experiences it it's an opportunity to go somewhere new yeah but if it's so it's so tough It's so challenging and initially the response can be just get away from it get it get rid of it just clear it just whatever it you know just I just don't need this but actually I think we find it keeps coming back because it needs to be sort of addressed and almost welcomed and and and definitely explored um but as we all kind of know you kind of explore it that doesn't mean you're free now it comes again I think it's part of life and the more that we can start to understand as part of life we can connect with each other over each other's kind of experiences um we see lots of photos and images of people who are nailing it in life and they give the impression that there is no challenge left for them you know you you you earn you're living or you have this you get this many likes you live in this place you have this and suddenly life's perfect I think that's a dangerous perspective because I don't think that's true and looking at exercise for me I think with those limiting ideas things can get a bit stagnant but to get up move your body get things moving again but to also ask questions of your body we can get caught sort of sitting in in this space the whole time but to open your body up to ReDiscover your youth to um ReDiscover that what you've got challenges set yourself challenges that mean you push those limits back a little bit little wins over time building momentum endorphins all those things it's hugely exciting but also just within your movement you can find out you can start to flow and dance and find out your uniqueness you know or we can turn it into a a sort of a struggle down the street can't we in terms of your jogging and you're just checking your watch the whole time but there's so much Beauty in movement as well as loads of stuff yeah to do with Sport and that thanks I I think I really want to touch on that aspect of we all have mental health and we all paying attention to it over time through those different experiences that we're having so I suppose for you Ellie how has been active through Sports um and physical activity affected your mental health do you think you know what I think it changed a lot definitely I How has movement effected your mental wellbeing? think when throughout my swimming career um when I was a Youngster in my first games when I was 13 yeah I just loved everything about swimming it was I was going in being with my friends getting to travel the world getting to represent my country enjoying the par Olympics enjoying the world championships and then as time progressed the pressure increased on my shoulders and I saw Sone in it in in a different way I still loved it like not saying anything about that I still enjoyed everything that came with it the swimming the friends all of that other stuff but I think I saw it as definitely a job sometimes you know and again now I see it as a way to escape a time but when I was swimming it was definitely heightened with pressure heightened with stress um when races didn't go well it definitely it was sometimes the end of the world um and I think again that's because of the pressure that was amounted on my shoulders I'm not just myself I think we know don't we as athletes and I don't know if it ever you were in that case but you sometimes your worst enemy you criticize absolutely everything about yourself and you want to be the best athlete that you can be but the pressure that you amasses on your shoulders and it's from majority yourself even though yes it's on your NGB or um your sponsors or the public but it's you that's going out there and it's you that puts the pressure on but also as well well you could perceive that pressure on a negative side but also see it as a positive and I saw it both stressful but then I also switched it going into a major competition and used it as an excitement used it as a thrill knowing that people were watching me and people were expecting me and I used it as a motivation I used it as adrenaline rush and again that didn't come naturally that came with the help of my psychologist um um my coach my support team around us around me addressing all those things that were causing that pressure but to flip it into a into a positive and I think I used to walk out with all that the crowds and all that and I used to get a buzz and yes half of me was nervous and half of me was yeah very very nervous I don't want to swear but I felt like it you know but um but then also I saw it as like just a motivation that these people are here to willing me to to win and willing me to do the best that I can and no matter what it's swimming at the end of the day it's it's not the end of the world it's I think also when races don't go well um and I'm sure you had this your your rational thought is oh it's it's the worst thing ever all that but actually you evaluate the race more I used to sit straight afterwards and be like team let's sit down what didn't go right was it something in training was it something in the race was it mentally was it physically whereas if a race would gone really really well you're just in that a success you're just you do you're on that high you're on that burth and you don't really evaluate it so for me it's just knowing that pressure is is a good thing it's an exciting thing and using that Balancing Act and support around you and then also just evaluating things and learning from those mistakes I think not just in sport but everyday life I think we when things don't go well we learn from ourselves more and more and next day we get better and I think also worrying as well like I think we all have nights when we get a bit stressed and we worry and then the next day it's not as bad as we thought you know but for me when those worrying times are right I have I write it on my phone like I write it on a write down or even a piece of paper as well like all the things that I'm worrying about and know that I can tackle them the next day but I think it's also just being aware of what we're like we're all different we're all individ uals and we all have things that stress us more worry about more and using that support team around you is the biggest thing I like that cuz you spoke about how the support network actually helped you to fine-tune that pressure so that you could use it as a positive even though you you felt the negatives of the pressure as well even though you were you were doing something you loved uh and there's clearly lots of benefits that come with being so physically active as well I'm guessing but there was still that element of it that could be quite difficult in terms of the pressure oh yeah no exactly I'm sure what was like how did you cope with that pressure and especially that pical moment where you had to kick that ball in that yeah final of the World Cup it's a I mean it's interesting that I have a different perspective with it now in my life but at that time definitely you feel that sense of challenge of Jonny dealing with pressure and how he overcame challenges vulnerability um there's those equal parts of feere of failure and then there's the drive to go and do it but I think um the the path now that I think is so important is the ability to bring all your intention and all your will but somehow be at peace with understanding that if it doesn't happen that's also fine and some people would say that that's not really going to work in professional sport cuz it's that kind of do it at all cost when at all cos thing that does it that's ruthless but I think it's just unsustainable I think actually the person that can give everything is the one that knows that it's okay and they're going to be okay when they've laid themselves be when you're constantly holding on to something the need to be safe or whatever because you know you're never going to be able to fully give but if you know that you know what I failed many times I'm still here I've won many times it didn't save anything I'm still searching so you understand that to realize it's kind of a game but you mentioned about pressure and putting that on yourself the key to all performance and I think with activity as you meant mention like when you find yourself a bit blocked in your mind same thoughts going around that whole idea of activity is it's quite intense at some point it connects you to your body it connects you to your surroundings it's not really enough space or time in what you're doing to be thinking about it um you or if you do find that you do connect to your body you start to think differently it shifts your energy um and it's more or less like living in the moment a bit more and when you live in the moment there can be no pressure because pressure is a future conse quence and if you are living fully in the moment there is no such thing as future and past so you cannot experience pressure when you're fully engaged you experience it when you're not fully engaging you're half engaging and half thinking so the key is if you don't want pressure is Let Yourself Go and just do what you're doing fully yeah and when someone says yeah I know but you said but the butt is has worrying about something ever helped anyone with that thing so we make a justification for not living in the moment MH and that requires a huge amount of trust when your habit has been as mine was to constantly need to try and cover those guarantees you know okay if this happens I'll do this if this happens now I feel safe enough I'll I'll go but you never go what requires is trust enough to say you know what if I feel passionate for this then there's something in it for me and I know that the answer isn't just winning everything because it it doesn't fulfill me no but actually fully engaging in something giving you all and committing it does fulfill in that moment there's nothing else you need and that's what I found out about my kicking as you mentioned I can kick a ball through in a game and everyone's watching and it's all about getting it through but now I kick a ball when no one's watching and I realize why I kick a b because it is my passion it's my joy and when I'm doing it I realize there's nothing else I need in the world but it becomes about succeeding and then you talk about pressure and expectation but you realize that the heart of it is something your born to do and exercise I think and those things can bring you out of that space of future and past yeah and actually bring you to understanding just connect to what's here and now your feet in the floor um you know your hands on the rowing machine whatever it is you're lifting the weights feeling your body moving it just simplifies a lot of things and and in a way brings you closer closer I think to the truth yeah than your mind does yeah and it's how you actually get those benefits isn't it when your mind is connected with what's going on in the present and in your body is that how you get that benefit from that movement so Johnny you've been a key supporter and advocate for mental health could you tell us a little bit more about your experience with your own mental health is uh yeah I think my understanding of my own mental Jonny’s experience with mental health health is that I come into this world um with many things to work out yeah and throughout my life I've picked up many things which form part of how I do things and what I do but I also need to work those out as well but the idea behind my mental health is to find out what I'm really capable of to find out who I really am and to connect with the life around me as one um and with each challenge that comes comes a pointer to something which is in the way and it hurts and you want to save that thing that's in the way you know it points you you want to be the one that wins everything so when you lose you can't stand it but you realize that idea that I need to be the one that wins everything is what's in the way of you connecting and so I my mental health for me has always been to do with ironing out a lot of things and what I what I'm has been my experience in this world is a huge amount of fear not not rational fear in terms of oh if this happens this will happen but from a young age just fear and that has constructed me in a certain way which played itself out in my sporting career and played itself out in my personality and in some ways it's been helpful in Society to win but healthwise it's been destructive and what I've sort of understood is that every time I meet that challenge it's my opportunity to open up to somewhere I've never been and work some of this out or to reinforce what's there and just conquer the challenge so I think mental health for me is about been about because I've always been ramped up in that fear sense it's been a lot about relaxing into my challenge which is the hardest thing I can do when a CH challenge comes and you and you see it as that Dreadful fear or anxiety you just want to eat it yeah get rid of it so you can stay as you are whereas for me relaxing into challenges is is the biggest thing you can do you know when you're threatened and you sit there and you say this is okay yeah and when you see someone knocking at your door to use the metaphor yeah who looks dangerous and you're like I need to invite them in that's what it takes because you see these thoughts as dangerous but the more you keep them outside the door the more they'll remain dangerous but what happens when you let them in and you get close to them and you have to explore them and realize that they that within that shadow is the gift you've been looking for but until you bring the shadow close enough you'll never see the gift and while it stays over there it's always going to look dark and it's always going to be something you're running from so that's been my version of mental health but I've come to understand lots of lots about balancing those different energies of what you want in life but also the Peace of who you really are and and balancing those have been hugely you know interesting to me no well it's seem TN isn't it that's we're here to talk about so Ellie after retiring from swimming in 2021 how did your mental health shift if you noticed any changes uh and how did you cope with those changes yeah I definitely I think for me um after retiring after Tokyo um I knew every single day where I The impact on mental health after retiring from sport had to be when I was an athlete I had a plan you know whether it's the four-year plan of a par Olympic cycle whether it's a a year plan of a World Championships or year appearance or whether it's um yeah training on a weekly basis every single day I knew where I got to be and what my purpose was in a sense um being that athlete and then for me going into too I knew I was going to retire it I had planned it was my fourth game so I was able to say goodbye to each event on my own terms and then it happen and I didn't have to be at the pool every single day it was it was weird it was it was like I lost a lot of Me Myself and it was definitely days where I loved it days where especially that first probably first year maybe even less where I was like oh it's so nice I've got this extra day I've got all this time in the world I can do absolutely anything but then also I would wake up and think what actually am I going to do today what is it I want to do um so it was very tough and very like having to figure myself out again and figure out what I wanted to do what I enjoyed doing it was trying lots of things working doing jobs um yeah trying a variety of different things but then i' I've nailed that I've I've got over it I've definitely got over those highs and lows and it's definitely like I still have those lads days I still sometimes go for a swim and I miss the feeling of what I used to feel like in the water now I can only swim half an hour and I get puffed out whereas like I used to be able to do like two hours of sessions um two times a day you know whereas now it's it's different um but I think I've I found out my what I enjoy doing and I love the opportunities that life gives me now and working and doing different things every day and being able to use my voice for for different reasons now instead of using the swimming I get to be able to meet lots of people have a lovely chat with both of you today you know things like that which I'm very very thankful for but it's definitely been moments where yeah there's been tough moments but also moments that I've been able to thoroughly enjoy as well and I think it's what's quite nice is just changing that mindset from actually I don't need to be swimming I can do there's so many opportunities out there to try and and do I think sometimes yes there's too many to choose from but also it's about realizing like I I tried things that I realized I'm not a fan of office work that's not me I tried a bit of that I tried about bit of sitting 9 till 5 answering emails and realized I love being around people I can't sit in office I can't do that but yeah I figured out what things I like to do what I don't do and three years later I'm I'm really enjoying I don't miss it I do miss being fit and miss being with a team and being able to travel and go into a par Olympics and all that but like now I get to talk about the sport and I see the athletes and enjoy feel their enjoyment you know I see them standing behind those swimming blocks and you can see the nerves that they're feeling and all that routine and now I yeah I don't miss that definitely do you have any of your competitive sides still in there um sometimes definitely sometimes that competitive side does come out in different ways now you know you know what I think and I don't know Competitiveness about yourself Johnny but I think we were born competitive in a way not born it but we were we are competitive you know that's in our nature because we've we've done it for so many years do you find your competitiveness comes out yeah I I think so yeah that's funny I'm interested in in the Journey of just kind of coming to ease with who you are right now it's quite interesting it's it's an interesting journey I think there's a recognition of what's relevant at the time and what's not so relevant now like he said for you to be I would say watching someone else swim yeah and that urge comes in to be like but you're kind of like the worst thing I could do is go back on the field because you know it's not relevant to me I'm not trained for it I'm it's not my it's just not there and letting that go so I can find out what's relevant to Me Now is really important otherwise you can end up kind of living that old version or that old version of you kind of lives for you as yeah or live through the past and resentfulness as well but F that actually CU you've touched on it a little bit but Johnny is there any particular activity that you do now that supports your mental wellbeing yeah I think lots of things allow me to um I think in a way just coming back to the place of What activities they do to support their mental wellbeing relaxation almost that's what supports my well-being is I've spent so long looking for answers to satisfy as we're talking before your mind saying this problem this problem this problem and you try and find the answer and the the the mind for me for example gobbles up that answer and you think well that'll Satisfy My Mind it'll go away now but it just gets bigger and it wants more food and you're kind of like oh no now I have to and I've realized that the answer for me has been in the unknown I think it's one of the biggest things that you can ask someone us to say when you in that state of challenge or anxiety or whatever to trust in the unknown but to relax is essentially to give that message that it's okay yeah and funny enough that that answer comes but not in an intellectual way and and that's what those activities I would use would be two things one is to follow my passion so wherever I whatever I find exciting I try and give as much time to that as possible without needing to know why I just do it just follow that yes gut instinct um as long as it's safe obviously and the other one is to um absolutely kind of surrender in that relaxation space so walking beautiful walking but not just walking but walking in the most relaxed easy manner everything that goes against that survival idea when you're struggling you find yourself hurrying everywhere you find yourself tense you find yourself sort of bent over you find yourself kind of staring at the floor you find your mouth teeth gritting and it's almost to just reverse all of those so just stand up straight to let your shoulders drop so much that your arms never stop swinging and to loosen your your facial expression and to breathe in a almost like in a sigh whereas when you're stressed you're panting so almost to Brea in aside so all of these things activities whether it be breathing whether it be relaxation you mentioned things like yoga or meditation they're really important to me but so is also F and passion so I go out there and I I sort of kick balls up the the the still kick balls through post and and I know that when I follow my passion it will challenge me so when I my passion is I want to be a really good at kicking balls to a post so when you miss I get the challenge and then I say oh let's relax and then I follow my passion again and then I relax and I find that that opens up my world so yeah and when I I meet people and you sort of find yourself reacting and that kind of oh gosh if you can catch it with awareness and then you can accept and relax then you find a new opportunity that's been my my uh I guess not processor so much but my exploration has been to do that but it all requires that idea to move away from that idea that suddenly you're going to work this out but more to trust that it's not yours to work out it's yours to just follow engage and relax and and the answers will come um in a funny way yeah yeah you kind of answered my next question slightly so I'm going to throw it to Ellie so making changes to our lives can be scary what advice would you give someone who's trying to incorporate more movement or physical activity into their daily routine yeah I think trying new is always scary isn't it I think like Johnny you mentioned it I think we're so sometimes so used to be in our comfort zone that trying new things is quite daunting Advice on how to get active from Ellie quite scary but for me I think I I go with a friend and especially movement or doing any form of exercise or even walking with a friend you know even just it's catching up it's Joy it's making you happy but doing it with them so I think having a chance to go and try something new but bringing a friend along so you've got that moral support and you're not seeing it as exercise or movement you're seeing it as a a social a social chance to catch up with them and try something new and then if you like it then you can keep doing it and keep trying it but I think there's so many different aspects of movement so many different things of Doing exercise from under water hockey to dancing to um playing golf like you heard of that underwater hockey yeah well I was trying to think of something like so different because there is like there's so many different sports and different activities and different ways of moving out there that you've got to find the the right one and that comes with trial doesn't it coming out and going out and trying lots of different things but also bringing a friend because then you can have a bit of a laugh too like I love it like going dancing um with my family or um the other week we did is um I keep I keep wanting to say CER CER um you know when you go do it like it's like um Scottish Highland dancing it's so fun it's so amazing but I loved it and doing it with them and we had joy and you know and I think exercise can bring so much happiness and joy and doing it with someone else then and you're just laughing off off with each other do you know it's funny to say that just because I think sometimes people can get an understanding of what exercise is and immediately if it doesn't fit with you how are you going to start but even if Reframing what ‘exercise’ means to you you're walking home from the shops carrying two bags of shopping you're doing exercise yeah so we're doing exercise all our lives but unless we're in gym kit we think oh that's not it you get in and out of your car that's exercise and you can do that in the most graceful way possible and give your body to it and it's actually like you're exercising but then as you mentioned it what exercise you want to do if you feel a bit of excitement for it You Can Be You whilst you do it yeah but when someone says this is how it has to be you're almost like I have to be someone else to do this and it won't last yeah my my brother sort of says in this Fitness industry the best exercise program for anyone is the one they'll do yeah and you often find yourself going look at this one it's laminated and it's got these and it's like I've never done it I never will but actually what will you do today and if you're also to realize you're probably already doing a load of exercise like you said when you go to a building and you walk up the steps it's like well that's I mean you literally might as well be on a step machine so once you go up those steps you're like well I'm going to enjoy this I've got to go up there anyway so I might as well but yeah I think it's it's funny the exercise definition can put people off when we're already doing it and you as he said you can do it so many ways and no one can tell you that's right and that's wrong yeah they can help you towards a goal but they sure as hell can't tell you what's fun for you yeah or how to move but you can find out how you want to move and how I feel me and my colleague have started calling it movement of his coactivity just to reframe our own thinking about exercise cuz when I think exercise I see myself in the gym lifting weights exactly and it's not like it's not like that and I haven't done that exactly right and I haven't done that since before having a child so I don't think I'm going back to it walking has been my constant so we've got a couple questions from the audience um so I'm going to throw it to first one to you any oh you love throwing them to me so how do you make sure that you don't um beat yourself up um or overthink things when you don't follow through on your plans for movement that's a good question because that happens quite a lot at the moment um I have this vision of getting up early and going to the gym or going to do Pilates class or doing a bit of exercise or movement and it doesn't happen um do you know what now I just I How do you avoid feeling guilty? don't beat myself up I think I I realize that actually that extra sleep might help me or that doing a different job or knowing that like I'm not so regimented anymore I don't need to swim nine times a week I don't need to exercise is for to fit in around my work or to fit in into my life but it's not the be all and end all um and it's not yet not the end of the world and yes I feel amazing when I go I feel really good when I do some sort of exercise but not to beat myself up I think just naturally changing that mental mentality of myself and thinking that yeah if I get three sessions in a week three exercise sessions in that's good if I can only get two that's fine but also I think and I don't know if you found it but your body changes it's I've learned now not to compare my body to how it used to be when I was a full-time athlete to now thinking my body is is great no whatever shape or size it is and it doesn't need to be stick thin full of muscle you know now it's if if I'm happy both inside my heart and in my head and with my friends and family and we're treating ourselves you know and we're enjoying some nice food you know that's my happiness it's not and being maybe a bit heavier than what I used to be well I am but that's okay like I don't compare myself and that's that's changed with growth it's changed with being older it's changed with the perception of not comparing yourself to other people I still do I think it's natural you know with the heightens um heightens of society and heightens of social media it's the thing we I think we all do is compare ourselves but it's still with bodywise I just try and think that I am my own person and whatever shape and size I am it's not going to change who I am yeah exactly I love that self-acceptance is really important and you said something earlier on that I was like y I'm with you on that we all need a bit extra sleep sometimes yeah we do I think we all feel good don't we have a good amount of sleep or even just you know treating ourselves to food with um going out with friends you know and being that makes you happy as well so I think it's fine not beating yourself up but finding what makes you happy whether it's yeah cuz I think some people love going doing exercise which I do like but or whether it's going going out for a walk like Johnny enjoys or whether it's being dancing I'm trying to think of all the things that you could do with your friends but it's just every single person has something that they enjoy and it's about finding that that yeah spot on what about you Johnny uh what to me I think um you mentioned about going doing things with your with friends I think it's really awesome you know do something new I think that's powerful when you take Friends Along especially those that where you really feel supported I think you're more willing to go anywhere yeah but I think when the voice inside your mind becomes your ideal teammate you can go and do everything with that friend yeah and recognizing that you can have that perfect friend with you wherever you go is a really exciting thought so that ideal teammate I find in Friendship is is consistency constant support constant being there yeah um constant recognition of what of listening to you and what you need um and then responding according to those needs and you know that's different to a voice that has already worked out what's good and bad for you and that voice is just coming from what you've done before exactly and so when you start listening to it it's going to keep talking to you but the ability to say stop as you said no I'm doing this instead yeah and you challenge it to say you know my boundary is I'm I'm not living through anger and fear anymore I'm not going to be coerced into living a certain Life by anger and fear oh if you don't do this this will happen and this will happen or or you should be doing this or you shouldn't have done that because of this these things are unsustainable and also it comes from the idea that your mind must have the answer you're kind of like well I'm sorry but who says you've got the answer like right here and now I have this opportunity and that voice needs to get in line with me and help me explore this opportunity not help me go back to where I've been but then you can yeah it's amazing imagine when you go to somewhere new and you feel that sense of oh gosh I feel a bit awkward but your mind says we're all good here relax you're fine you're great just take every step your mind says that instead of oh my gosh that person's looking at you oh they're looking funny at you or you've ruined it now you better go oh my gosh you'll never live this down you're kind of like what's that but you can challenge it enough by being present and saying I'm going to sit in this vulnerability and even while you're shouting at me I'm going to choose to sit here anyway and let this be the truth and not you and then after a while that relationship changes and the mind sort of goes I quite like your style let's let's do this together you yeah challenging that in a yeah yeah yeah absolutely okay last question is there anything in terms of tips that you would share with our audience of FR Johnny first about the power of movement on our minds I think yeah my you've mentioned it a couple of times my big one would be um something like right also understanding it's not what Tips on the power of movement on our mind you do it's how you do it and I think that biggest example for me in that because I grew up this way is in dancing I would never dance when I was younger yeah because I'd be like it's certain this is how you do it I'm terrible at it to recognize that actually there is no right and wrong to any of your movement but it takes once you relax and just go yeah stuff starts revealing itself and you're kind of like I can move I move to my tune and I move and I think this is the understanding around all of it is that movement's brilliant but it should be your movement yeah and every movement has the ability to be a revelation just like a dance but if you say this I've danced to this song and this I did a great dance and now every time that song comes out I do this dance how how quickly would you get bored of it and then your favorite song is gone and you're like oh but every time you go right this is me today MH brand new I'm going to relax I'm going to start to move and then I'm going to start to follow it and then you're like every day and that for me is a representation of what every day can be the morning you start you say right this is me today this is how I want to move I'm going to move with it this is what comes to me from the outside I'm going to respond to it within my movement and I'm going to just stay in that space now it's not tiring no one sort of goes I'm so tired of doing this beautiful dance and I think that idea can be a beautiful sort of metaphor for what you do in your life but it's not always what you do what you do is not going to sort it but how you do it could be the difference for can just reveal so much but that will take challenges uh but for me definitely you know going out there and having a walk but but walking fully present fully as you and just allowing things to unfold you know is a much I think more powerful way of of living life and I think it's going to open up many more doors than it closes yeah quite like that so I've always considered myself not a very good dancer bet CH it's how you move there no right or there is no right it's your art it's your art uni it's just a twostep or it's just about feeling that music it's amazing when you do properly let go and you're willing for it to look as silly as what it may look like according to society's values if you go there you'll find something that goes oh my gosh but you can't get there like I said by doing the cor thing and the correct thing and the correct thing it's like but you've got to go somewhere a bit where you've never been otherwise it won't open yeah do after this off camera off camera Ellie what about you any tips that you'd like to show our audience on the power of movement and all lives again I think using people and using that support system or using reaching out you know I think don't be afraid to to grab a coffee with a friend and talk about what's going on at the moment talk about your mind talking about your thoughts and feelings because I think when you're speaking with someone else about it I find on a personal level like it just comes off my shoulders you know it just unleashes and E it just helps me so so much I think definitely having it could be anyone you know like I remember when I went traveling um I was sitting at a coffee shop on my own and the lady sitting next to me was on her own too she was an American and she just we ended up chatting for hours and she was talking about her life and her struggles and her son was in prison and all that type of stuff and I think I was more than happy to chat to her and I I hope that it helped her and it helped me and I think just not being afraid to talk and I think cuz everyone yes I think we we sometimes are so fastpaced but actually sitting and stopping and talking to each other and talking to strangers is is so wonderful like smiling to people you know and again even um just enjoying this weather the simple things you know I think it's really nice now that we're getting into those days where it's like lighter longer you know in the morning in the evening and I I find like when I wake up and see a better of sun and wake up at 6:00 and the sun's out it makes me feel so happy so sometimes it's the simple things so enjoy and like even like affirmations me and my best friend and we message each other every day saying three things at the end of the day what we're thankful for whether it's cup of coffee whether it's treating ourselves whether it's saying hi to someone new trying something new it's just those simple things that can make you happy and again writing things down I'm like you I've got a diary you know and I write everything that's on my mind all everything that's I'm thinking about just again another platform as well as using individuals and using people writing on your paper and realizing even though it's all maybe going off in your mind and all scrambled like Scrabble once it's on paper you can see it and tick it off and it's again another therape therapeutic way of just unleashing things and looking at things yeah fantastic thank you both it's been a lovely chat I've really enjoyed it thank you so thank you for tuning in run and we'll see you soon