Reviewing Seahawks vs. Broncos with Mike Golic Jr.

the 2024 season is underway and a wild week one included the Seahawks kicking off the Mike McDonald ERA with a victory over the Broncos we'll break it all down former All-American guard ESPN analyst and current host of the Gojo and goic podcast Mike gock Jr let's light him up [Applause] [Music] I'm Jackson bans and this is cigar thoughts welcome back to the Cigar Lounge I am Jackson bevans and along with my presumptuous Producer Mike barwin this is the cigar thoughts podcast Mike how we doing today we are doing great man the season has officially started the Seahawks are on the scoreboard with a victory over a team that dear God they could not afford to lose to I know it's week one but there is no Universe in which the Seahawks in the at the outset of the Mike McDonald era can lose to the Denver Broncos and Bon X and his first career start and they did so shout out them for for making sure that didn't happen most importantly Seahawks Twitter could not lose to Broncos Twitter that would have been worse than the knock in the standings honestly yeah it would have been really bad tremendously toxic and like it was pretty shaky there it was shaky to start you know multiple safeties in the first half like the first two offensive snaps of the Season were a sack and an interception for Gino like it was and then a penalty on the first play of the next D yeah no it was it was beautiful stuff but you know what they were resilient and that's the thing like yeah I don't care how good you are in the NFL shit's going to go wrong and you need to be able to bounce back and they it it really did feel like they never lost their composure yeah and the bright spot throughout the game was how the defense performed obviously that Mike McDonald's calling card and I think the thing that was most impressive outside of you know the tackling and just playing fast keeping everything in front of them was the fact that they led the NFL in pressure in week one according toal and and keeping in mind the fact that the Broncos uh I think they were 20th in the league and pass block win rate so not great but not the worst so the Seahawks were generating pressure outside of just beating their blocker one-on-one Mike McDonald wet his whistle as a blitz designer as a pressure designer on on passing downs and that was pretty apparent in the way that he was uh pulling things off on on Sunday well and the cool thing for me watching the game live is none of it was obvious it's just it's felt so obvious when blitzes were coming and when they were like trying to dial something up over the last few years and and it almost felt like okay you know pressure is coming but I I couldn't identify it before the snap where it was coming from and that's very encouraging because if I can identify it then I promise you the players on the field and the coaches on the sideline can identify it so that was super encouraging I'm really really excited talk more about that game and and honestly just about NFL week one because look we're all football fans and there was a lot of really really interesting football this week and you know I get so stoked about each of the people whose Brilliance we get to tap into on the show each week and I'm especially excited to talk with today's guest but first I want to remind everyone listening that cigar thoughts is proud to be sponsored by Seattle cigar concierge and Glen fidic single malt scotch whiskey two companies whose products I enjoy on a regular basis those of you who have been with us all summer already know this but for those of you who are joining or rejoining us as the season kicks off we have Team backup with Seattle cigar coner for an exciting second release of the cigar thought cigars they are the cigar thoughts Red Zone series which combines a robust tast profile with the smooth Connecticut wrapper and will be available to purchase using the link on the show page for the same discounted price of $149 which gets you a bundle of 10 stoies it's the same cost that you're used to with the cigar THS Originals which are also still available for sale and look you guys know my goal with these releases is to provide an Avenue to high-end cigars without the high-end cost and this partnership provides exactly that feedback on these stoies has been excellent so far and we'd love yours as well let let us know what you like about these cigars and if there's something that you don't like we're open to that too but again feedback been overwhelmingly positive and they make a great gift as well so get some for yourself or for someone else again follow the link at cigars nfl.com now Mike and I love doing the show and there are two ways y'all listening and watching can help support it so that we can keep the episodes coming one is by purchasing the cigars which again come at a fantastic price for the quality the other is by subscrib to our YouTube channel at cigars you can watch full episodes as well as the funny and insightful clips that Mike puts together give a thumbs up to the stuff you like and let us know what you think in the comments and of course you can listen to us everywhere you get your podcasts all right y'all today we caught ourselves a good one one of the coolest and most unexpected aspects of starting the show a couple years ago is thinking who do we most want to talk ball with and then having those people come on to do just that and today is no exception as I've long been a fan of this man's work he was an All-American guard at Notre Dame who spent time with the Steelers and the Saints he was an analyst at ESPN and now co-host the goic and Gojo podcast and as much as I hate adding cache to team Mike at least he has a glorious beard which makes me feel a kinship with him he is Mike gock Jr Mike thanks for making the time thank you for the kind intro honored to join another Mike here and I also I'm glad we can Bond over the commonalities of the beard because I have to keep the Hat on because my bald head does not need to be seen in the same frame as the hair you got going on over there so I'm GNA I have I already have to do the show every morning next to my 61-year-old father who basically has God's Gift of hair my dad will be dead for a decade and his hairline will have not moved an inch it's incredible so glad to be here you and him would get along swimmingly in that regard shout shout out to my wig maker well well look man uh everyone listening is familiar with you the incredible work you do I want to Dive Right In to week one because like you and I were talking about before we got on air it is so nice to have real football to talk about we're no longer projecting I mean we're still projecting but we actually have full speed [ __ ] to talk about and look we're we're going to talk about the Seahawks and the Broncos but I want to talk about week one in general just from an NFL standpoint because I think this was a really really unique first week of the season and I'm curious what you saw and how much of that do you think is just outlier because every season has weeks that are weird versus what's an actual Trend in the NFL so as as you step back and you look at week one in all 16 games that were played what were some of the things stood out to you um I guess for this I mean are we looking at like you know offensive defensive Trends are we looking for teams that we trust and things like that is it all the above here do I kind of have free reain y free rain I would say the thing that was most interesting to me that like I truly think was like a good reset for all of us with these rookie quarterbacks is them all struggling right out of the gate like for all of the excitement around these guys and as much as I believe that a lot of them espe Caleb Williams Jaden Daniels are going to be really good players it was kind of nice to get a heat check right out of the gate for all of us that the prince that was promised and Caleb coming off that preseason had a slow start to it they ultimately get the win and like I I I just think it's good for all of us in the way that we're going to talk about that because I felt like we were getting ready to get off the rails really quickly sure I I don't think a single rookie quarterback had a better week one than Michael pennick man it's something something to be inste for being the car that stays on the lot man you don't appreciate one bit you just can sit on there and they get to keep selling you for exactly what you're going to be down the road for somebody so but no I mean it was good to see all those guys out there like again we'll talk about bow more with the Broncos Seahawks game but I think he was kind of perfectly emblematic of what I still want to see from these guys like Shawn pton obviously was going to set him up for a bunch of stuff that was going to put him in a chance to win the offense doesn't ask him to do anything crazy and he still made some of the like wildest most rookie throws you've ever seen and I think for all these guys would love to see that still like keep taking tances down the field keep doing all the things that you're going to need to do to eventually be competent Pros but that one up there like as far as some team stuff that are Trends I trust I was really heartened I bought a lot of uh Arizona Cardinal stock this off season and I was really happy to see the way that they came out of the gate against the Buffalo Bills I I think the second half of that game was more the bills finding the level that I assumed that they will have for most of the season but I think the Seahawks offense is going to be fun I mean we're talking about or excuse me the Seahawks this Cardinals offense is going to be fun and that's after a game where the guy I expect to be a huge part of it Marvin Harrison Jr had three Targets in one catch so that's only going to get better yeah absolutely and I mean every NFL week has surprises I remember when it was either the bills were undefeated and they got shut out by the Vikings or the Vikings were undefeated and they got shut out by the bills one of them was considered the worst team in the NFL at the time and it was like week six of the season and the other hadn't lost a game it happens every week we saw with the Bengals and the Patriots the thing that I always hammer on this show and something that you know from personal experience is I think is fans we have a tendency to assume and and fans of this show have heard me say it before but we have this tendency to see the worst team in the NFL as like a one and the best team in the NFL as a 10 in reality the best team in the NFL is probably like a 98 and the worst team's like an 89 like the Gap isn't actually that big if you're good enough to be starting and getting a high snap share in the NFL you're probably pretty [ __ ] good at football and if things are clicking any team can beat any team I mean it's the old Any Given Sunday adage but we saw that like I lost I'm I'm in a Survivor league with uh Michael Ryan Ruiz you know the the producer of the the chies I'm in the chies and of course you know about the chies I'm in the chies I took the Bengals I got to send a shotgun video today after the show to everybody because here I am like oh hey welcome to the group guys I'm I'm the new one from up in Washington and I'm 0 for one so anyway that that stuff happens every single week the difference is when it happens in week one we've got nothing else to go off of to temper that so like for me I think one of the things that I think might actually be a trend and it's something that Mike barwin and I have been talking about for a while is you know the spreadsheets have been telling football analysts for years now past the football EPA is just higher when you throw don't run unless you have to all these things and then you saw the NFL change you saw the fangio defenses and these two high shell safeties it's like we're not going to give up big plays you're going to have to get five first downs if you want to score a touchdown slowed this game down over the last few years and then this week we saw 31 passing touchdowns from 32 football teams we saw 10 quarterbacks throw for more than 200 yards in this game and to me I feel like that might be a trend the teams that ran the ball including the Seahawks who came out trying to pass in the first half and struggled when and and we're going to get to this game in more depth but I'm just using it as a microcosm of what what I think might be a larger picture they went to the half and Mike McDonald and his first ever going into halftime TV interview said we need to run the ball and I kind of rolled my eyes a little bit because like really and then they came out and they ran the [ __ ] ball and that opened everything up and they won it sucks the safeties up to the line of scrimmage it opens things up like am I wrong in thinking that this is maybe where the NFL is going to be a little bit more in 2024 I think it's been that way for the last couple of years quietly like especially if you're looking in the NFC amongst a lot of the best teams like who have been the teams making deep postseason runs the last few years the 2022 Eagles the 49ers every year the uh the Lions last year like it's all teams that run the piss out of the rock like everyone kind of figured out yeah everyone's gonna yeah everyone figured out everyone's going to play cover two and if we want to exploit a market in efficiency where linebacker bodies have gotten smaller and the safeties have backed off even more we've got to load up and have you know versatile tight ends which is kind of the same thing we went through when the Patriots did the two tight end stuff in the early 2000s but it's all cyclical and eventually someone was going to see the market disadvantage here and go about exploiting it I saw uh Nate Ty retweeted a chart from uh Jake Gman on Twitter showing the decline in air yards through Sunday of week one going all the way back to 2014 and it is it's a bunch of lower slower passes because defenses have decided all right the big play skews the math more than anything for us like giving up big plays is going to be the easiest way for us to lose track of everything that's going on and lose control of the game so as long as we don't do that everything else works and especially I think the linebacker thing is huge like again a lot of the teams that we talked about like Baltimore and what they did last on defense ran Smith outlier in terms of what we're talking about but the draft the last few years has been a bunch of smaller sideline to sideline off ball linebackers Now teams are like all right we're going to find a bunch of big guards and just go right at you and see if you can butt and shed and the answer by en llarge has been no they can so yeah I absolutely agree with that well we saw that this year in free agency you know guard had been one of those positions that had just kind of fallen down the priority list for teams and and to your point you know I I was talking about this ability to run the ball as being a 2024 Trend to your point about happening for a couple of years we saw multiple guards sign 20 plus million doll contracts like getting wide receiver Money Getting cornerback money and that is new and you're right I mean the average weight of an offall linebacker has gone down like 20 lbs in the last five six years and so yeah if you can run the football you look at the chiefs of course it's pck Mahomes and it was Tyreek Hill and it still is uh Travis Kelce and it's like okay that's how you win well in the same way that Tom Brady won three of his Super Bowls on the back of running the ball and 12 personnel and defense yeah that is how the Chiefs did it last year they were a pretty middling offense and it was Pacho who emerged as the engine of that offense yeah I think it's been cool to see going back the last few years I think it was two years ago when the Chiefs won the first of the back-to-back Super Bowls they like tripled their use of 13 personnel and definitely jump their use of 12 personnel and part of that is hey you go with what you got like a lot of these adjustments are also hey this is a salary cap League where you've got limited resources and they kind of change every year so if you lose Tyreek Hill who's the most unique deep threat in the NFL and you look around and go all right well we got a bunch of big guys and one of them's arguably the greatest pass catching tight end in NFL history so why don't we put all them on the field and present options to teams on defense like I was having this conversation with someone today about the Dallas Cowboys and what they need to do to get to the next level and they're like talking about the Run game and I'm like it's not that you have to have a Run game for the sake of a run game it's that you've got to be able to do everything well enough to where when you get to the playoffs and people take away your first pitch you got other places to go so there's the obvious like macro stuff we talk about with that but then there's just like the football 101 thing of you can't be a one-dimensional team and win when it gets to you know December January and February ball yeah you know uh the the closest to any athletic accomplishment I had is is I pitched it paid for college and there's there's a saying that oral Hershiser had that he said if you if you got one pitch you're hoping to win if you've got two pitches working that day you can compete and if you've got three pitches working you can Dominate and I feel like it's the same thing for offensive play calling if you've only got one pitch if you can only throw your fast ball for a strike it's going to be hard and and I think the biggest example of that that I saw last year was the Miami Dolphins there's there's a lot of talk with with Tua and Jaylen Wadd and Tyreek Hill about passing and all this stuff look they they were a running team they had like 40 rushing touchdowns last year but it was a finesse Run game and when it got cold and it's cold and you're on the road against the Steve spagnolo defense you need to be able to get your curveball over for a strike too you need to be able to put people away with your Sider or your change up and they couldn't do it and as Seahawks fans we've seen that we've seen Shane Waldren over the last two years come out and his first 15 plays are great they're slicing and dicing it looks awesome and by the time third quarter runs around they can't move the football and so the ability the the thing about the tight end position is that they're the one position on the field that's a true two-way thing there's no tell with a tight end right and if there's no running backs in the backfield you know it's a pass if it's three tight ends and a running back it's probably a run but if you have two tight ends out there it's really difficult to tell what offense is going to do you're not you're not giving away what your plan is and so I it just seems to make sense that teams are going to lean more into that and I've never seen that more evident than it was in week one yeah well and I mean it's the reason like all of this is the reason why the 49ers roster is the final boss because you've got a bunch of guys that do a little bit you know it's the Bo Burnham line a little bit of everything all the time like everyone on that team can do everything you know it's just cuz it's a bunch of Swiss Army knives like it it and Jason Kelce I think did a tape before or after on Monday countdown just kind of showing the versatility of all those guys but when you're a Defender and you come out onto the field and you can't just look and go all right well in this formation when this particular running back lines up here they have this menu of X Y and Z it's like no you have to pretty much expect anything from Christian mcaffrey George KD Debo Samuel On Any Given play from any of the nin th000 formations that Shanahan presents and then you've got to try and do your best to read your keys and stay with it and then oh by the way all of these guys are so insanely talented in addition to the versatility that they do all those things great so it is the perfect example and it's why you know even as teams go and build out deeper running back rooms try and do it more by committee you know the the dvalue running back conversation when you get guys that are truly like versatile and can do everything it's why you know saquon Barkley in Philadelphia is going to be fascinating this year because that offensive line in New York was so limiting for him for so long that now if you get him to a place that's got a healthy Foundation he's got a skill set to do a lot of stuff it's not quite Christian mcaffrey but it's going to probably give him the opportunity to max out in a way that we've just never seen from him totally and and that's the thing is it's a I feel like the best offenses are figuring out ways to put their best players in the best position uh the the term I always use is putting more wind in your main sail as opposed to trying to fill out the smaller sales right like if you want to go faster put more wind in your main sale and you know the best offense do it you look at Shawn McVey that guy will just funnel all of the touches to his best players he doesn't give a rip about rotating running backs he doesn't give a rip about spreading out his targets if he's got Cooper cup and puka Nua and either Todd Gurley or kyen Williams on the field they're getting the [ __ ] football right it's like that's that's how they operate uh but you need to have some scheme ability in order to do that and you know the flip side of that is like you mentioned with saquin with the Giants it's like very obviously the saquon's going to be getting the ball and there's not a whole lot else to scare you so you you still do need the talent everywhere and that's what makes the 49ers such a dangerous team I want to zero in on the Seahawks Broncos game because on the offensive side it started out as ugly as it possibly can uh for for the Seahawks but on defense they look tremendous and I want to get into that in just a little bit but staying a little bit zoomed out here what were your main takeaways watching that game week one one of the better tackling performances we saw weekend probably was the thing that jumped out first and foremost like so much of the Mike McDonald Focus was on scheme and the changes there some of the new Personnel but especially out of the secondary seeing the way that those dudes kept everything in front of them came up and were sure tacklers in the first week was an outlier considering what we know about the modern NFL and training camps and all the things that feed into that so I I think it was that the secondary in general just looked incredibly like tied together dialed in and I thought it took a little while for defensively the front seven on the Seahawks to kind of catch up to that the Broncos ran the piss out of the pill for a little bit the beginning of that game and got some good chunks in there and then Leonard Williams decided that play time was over and that he was just going to show up in the backfield run or pass every freaking snap he could in the second half so o overall I was encouraged by that I was someone that you know preseason Byron Murphy off Defensive Rookie of the Year was my pick I think he is a sensational talent that fits into what Mike asks of his defensive tackles pretty seamlessly and then offensively for them it was fun watching them find their footing to your point I really thought it was like their 11 personnel runs in the second half where they really got to that like they mixed Personnel groups and they did the right thing in trying to present a bunch of stuff to uh the Broncos defense but I really thought it was when they got lighter when they started you know doing what a lot of the quite honestly the Shanahan MC vry guys do and like find a receiver that's willing enough to go down and mix it up in the box and I think it was jsn a couple of times that got in there on a couple of those snaps and just presents enough of like I said that versatility in the picture to open up some pretty good Lanes in that rushing attack cuz Kenneth Walker is a [ __ ] dude dude he really is man and and the thing is is like what was encouraging to me I'm glad you brought it up is Ken Walker has all the talent in the world you know I think I think with the ball in his hands Nick chub is kind of like on his own planet in terms of Defense knows you're running the ball and we're going to turn around and hand it to you and you can still win that play Ken Walker seems like he's in that next tier like he got those velcro feet that just stick to the ground and and go there's no wasted movement there but he's been his first two years in the league he's been such a gambler and it's like look if the play is blocked for two yards sometimes you just have to take the two yards and he was trying to turn a lot of those into big 40 yard runs I felt like he was so much more decisive in this game and to see a team that was down at halftime say you know what we're just going to take the air out of the football even though we've got these great receivers even though we've got what I believe is a good quarterback and Gino Smith and Ryan grub is an offensive coordinator who made his hay at Washington airing the ball out we're going to hammer at you and you saw Walker get in a Groove and when a guy like that gets in a Groove he really can't take over a game devaluation of running backs be damned I think to your point too one of the things that helped that like their best runs were largely like man scheme runs like when they mixed in some of the pin pole stuff when they ran they ran little trap later on which is I think the one that he scored on and it just it defines holes for running backs easier right than the Zone stuff where you've got to have the eyes and kind of see the crease you got the landmark and then you're looking for the flow it's like hey no no we're going to try and make the hole right here and you just run hard as hell and if there is someone that wants to get downhill and run hard as hell it's Kenneth Walker so that was one of the things I was curious like you talk about Ryan grub coming from udubb I got to do a bunch a couple of their games last season and watch a bunch of that offense and I always thought the Personnel match was perfect in terms of what he did there versus what he could do with the Personnel in Seattle the difference right now being the offensive line Washington had the group that won the Joe Moore award for the best o line in college last year and Seattle right now is in a place where they're probably going to have to make some additions there to fortify that group because outside of Charles there isn't a ton that I trust necessarily down in and down out but one of the elements of the Run game that really cuz Washington even last year wasn't a Dynamic run team they weren't a dominant run team but the stuff they did they did well with you know fanu who's obviously in Pittsburgh now rosengarten on the other side they were a really good man run team there was a lot of where hey let's get our athletes on the perimeter in space let's screen them let's pin and pull them and so I'll be interested to see how much more of that shows up more frequently because I thought that was a lot of what they had their best success with yeah I completely agree with that and it it was encouraging because Charles cross look we're just going to touch on it he was pff's top rated left tackle in in the NFL and like PFF grades aren't everything of course but I mean they're they're a decent Baseline for single game performance and look you don't have to even know that PFF exists if you're just watching offensive line play you saw a guy who gave up zero pressures in the game he had a pancake that was like 18 yards down the field and I know you can speak to it like pancakes are like kind of the cool thing for off offensive Blind Men you can get them in high school you can get them in college sometimes you never see Defenders on their back in the NFL and he was putting dudes on their back but the touchdown run from Walker was off the right side even after George Fant went out and they're down to their third tackle on the right side it just felt like the coaching and you you mentioned them winning the Jim Moore Award for best offensive line at udub well they brought Scott Huff the udub offensive line coach with Ryan grub to seatt attle and it just felt like there were real adjustments made at halftime I'm going to circle back to the offense here but I want to talk about this defense because they were dominant and I'm I'm fighting the urge to say that Seattle now has a dominant defense I I'm a big believer in zooming out and viewing things from 20,000 fet in the air so I'm I'm not getting too sucked in but this is a team that is number one in defensive dvoa after week one the yards per attempt that they allowed through the air was the sixth lowest Ben Ben solak tweeted this out it was the sixth lowest in NFL history of any game where a team threw 40 or more times in a game they allowed 3.3 yards per attempt they only gave up one touchdown despite giving Denver the ball in plus territory on over half their drives you had Julian love was pff's top rated safety riek Woolen was their number two corner you had boy MAF was number three in win rate you or excuse me Byron Murphy was number three in win rate Leonard Williams who you mentioned was seven boy MAF was number two in pressures Devon Witherspoon was great as the top 10 uh uh defensive player Tyrell Dodson their new linebacker that a lot of us were like okay who we got at linebacker now at off ball oeno is out he balled out and was top five in PFF how much of that is Mike McDonald combined with some real talent I believe on this defense versus look they're playing Denver they don't got a lot of dudes they got a rookie quarterback who has to Crow Hop into throws more than 20 yards downfield how how much weight are you putting on either side how excited should Seahawks fans be about this defense I I think they should be very excited like there was a lot of encouraging stuff there were also some throws that if the quarterback is a veteran player I do think it made downfield a little more frequently like there were balls behind open receivers there was some stuff there that was just hey you got a rookie quarterback figuring it out on Denver side there but that being said like I I think one of the things that was most encouraging I remember Ted win wrote an article about Mike McDonald's defensive coaching style and how simple he makes the complex stuff for the guys on his team teaching things and like teaching things in the pods that he does where and this was you know the best coaches I had were coaches that worked in Concepts it was hey this is the concept for the play these are the tools that you have on each and every play I can't show you every look you're going to see I we could sit here and try and find all of them we could do that to cover our asses but that's only going to get us so far eventually with how great these coordinators are on both side you're going to encounter a look that you couldn't see and so it's hey do you understand the tools that you have out of this set to use to try and get yourself out of a jam the best you can and by all accounts that's what it sounds like Mike does on defense with the way that he teaches these guys and you saw that you saw guys that were it wasn't complicated so they could take ownership of the system a lot earlier on than most places that are coming in and installing from what the outside looking in looks like a very complex system so I think that combined with like you said I I thought it was really telling and I remember texting with Mina about this she pointed out like when Julian love signed that extension this off season she's like oh they must like him like that was an indication it's like all right this is a guy that you know probably not in like the Kyle Hamilton ways but in the way that like Gino Stone smart guy who fit into the system got his hand aot football I'm like all right Julian can be that guy for your defense he's a really bright Kyle Hamilton's unicorn yeah I was gonna say there there there ain't many of those that grow on trees out there but no like you just saw the guys that fit well into all these different types that you had in this defense and so I I just thought again for them to go out and look like they had command of that as early on as they did is a testament to Mike and a testament to the Personnel No Doubt yeah you know it it was so encouraging because you know on one hand I was grateful that when you have a brand new system and you can speak to this when when you have a new scheme come in these players it's almost like signing up for du lingo for four months learning like a totally new language right and and you can't find a more different defensive approach from a responsibility standpoint in terms of what Mike McDonald is asking these guys to do versus Pete Carroll and the defensive coordinators he's had really since like Dan Quinn have H have been asked to do and so we had Greg Bell who does a phenomenal job covering the team from for the News Tribune on and he was like look the scheme is good but these guys are kind of struggling picking it up and I was like thank God they get Bo Knicks who I'm not a Believer and listen if there's for some reason any Broncos fans listening to this podcast what y'all got is Daniel Jones on a rookie contract I'm so sorry but they get that and then they get the Patriots in the first two weeks and it's like if you have a new scheme that's coming in it can come in with all the press and and all the accolades possible but until you actually see it work that's what it takes for buyin right to say oh yeah we just went out and played the best defensive game that we've played since I've been here okay we're into it and now they get probably jacobe brassette next week who I like but who's he throwing to that offensive line is a mess and so I was really happy to see Seattle get kind of a soft landing spot to open their schedule with his defense to build that momentum because then it's Miami and San Francisco and a lot of like really good offenses right but speaking of San Francisco you you talked about how Mike McDonald's simplifies the defense and what I was trying to explain uh to a buddy of mine was he asking he's like what I was at wed this past weekend and I was talking with one of the groomsmen and he was asking me you know what is it about Mike McDonald defense that works and I was like one I mean he had good players in Baltimore he had good players in Michigan but they were defenses that gave up a lot of points when he showed up the thing that he does he's been called the Shawn McVey of defense for a while but I think because he's young and and kind of like hot but I think he's the Kyle Shanahan of Defense because what Kyle Shanahan does is he reduces the complexity of offensive football to a binary situation where you're looking for one key and it's just ones and zeros and if the key you're looking for does one thing then you do the other if it does the other thing then you do that first thing and on defense that is what's being asked of these guys and it's so much easier once you grasp the concept I believe to say okay that's my one key and I'm going to do this thing and I know the other 10 guys saw their one key and are going to do this thing and now you can identify a responsibility within the first step of a play as opposed to quarterback's been in the pocket for two seconds and you're still trying to figure out what the responsibility is am I way off base no I I I I I think that's a huge part of it and I think the other part that goes along with that too is like you're doing that while also buying up the opponent's eyes in a way that to me is the biggest like Shanahan McVey comp for because I I think that's a perfect comp I said the Ravens defense last year like Kyle Kyle Hamilton was your George KD if you were to compare those two offenses or your Kyle juice because he was a piece that could do so many things that you could never really get a tell from and where they put him they could mess with you cuz the whole like Mike's whole defense and the way that it messes with offensive lines and protection schemes especially is it buys your eyes it makes you declare and then it makes you think right at the snap that's how you do all the tell me about buying your eyes so like at some point in a protection like everyone sees the center get up there the quarterback get up there and like declare the mic and set the protection like who the backs have who the line has all based off that and you you've got all that time to do all the you know stuff we used to see with like pton Manning and Brady where before the snap there's all this you know gesticulating and the chess match between the two sides and then it's like all right at some point you got to go up there and you got to declare it and so what Mike's defense does is it gets you up it forces you to make a decision and then it gives the defense the ability to make you wrong more often than not so now they get you to make a decision you've got to declare it and then all of a sudden once you do that if they've got two coming from the strong side after they've made you say hey we believe the primary rushers are going to come from the left side but because this defense is wired the way it is where everybody understands every responsibility and so all the same pressures can come from every spot on the field they can go and make you wrong after the snap on that in a way that now allows them to devote still more resources to the back end like all this Sim pressure stuff means you get bodies bought into the back end that help the quarterback you have what they did especially well last year the D tackle dropper stuff that really will mess with a quarterback's eyes over the middle of the field it all mimics that same thing that motion on offense does where I liken like motion on offense makes a Defender tap the break the same way a squirrel jutting across the street makes you tap the break in your car animal going across just for a second but that's enough for something to happen and so when offenses do it you get a Defender to sit on his heels at linebacker just long enough for the running back to go screaming past him it's the same way here now where hey if I'm the offensive lineman I can read out of it when you drop but you've already made me stop my feet by my eyes for a second and now it's going to take a while to redirect and while I do that you know you've got a safety screaming off the edge on the other side that's got a free shot now yeah you know and and I appreciate you breaking that down I think that people who are familiar with your work and and for those who maybe are just being introduced to you who are listening or watching this show right now one of the things that that stands out to me about the way that you see football is your ability to kind of remove context and see the actual text and so when you look at this defense granted we've got one week against a brand new quarterback without you know game breaking wide receivers and all that stuff right that's that's all granted that's the context did you see enough from a scheme and talent perspective on this defense to say you know what maybe they don't get run out of the building by McVey and Shanahan when they play the Dolphins in week three they can keep this game close um I think the Dolphins and like McVey and Shanahan are well like I should say McVey when the team is healthy like right now unfortunately the Rams might not get to the point where they're healthy enough to do the things I thought they were capable of this year I I think they're absolutely in a place where they can stay competitive with Miami I think for some of those other teams it might be a little bit interesting for me still just because I want to see like that town against like real big bads on the offensive side and not a rookie quarterback because again I just saw enough and like the whole game was kind of weird too like I'm sure we'll talk about the offense like I've never seen a team start inside their own three on offense all that much but the field position was so out of whack that the game script was kind of wonky to me I just want to see it one more time before I'm ready to say hey I think they're ready to take the next step up to the final boss but I think they're already now like top quarter of what you can expect in terms of like alignment assignment and having enough dudes in the right spot especially in this defense we talk about the Spy all the time like what you saw from Byron what you saw from Leonard Williams already to me combined with the safety room like most encouraging like all that stuff we mentioned it's like okay it's all the guys right down the spine that Baltimore had to be successful and you can see that taking rote already here so I'm I'm trying to be ful of our time because I just want to like dive into the minutia with you for the next five hours but two last things I want to touch on with the defense because I do want to talk to you about this offense um you mentioned that you're a Byron Murphy fan right pick for for defensive uh rookie of the year did you see enough in week one to say like that was the right pick at number 16 um I I definitely saw like the signs there like I'm so spoiled because God watching him have to play against College offensive lineman was simply unfair but again he's just such a different level of athlete like again no one's hiset are crazy right it's he he moves like a 300b linebacker and that was it was one of the rare instances where like the way someone tests and runs at the combine is actually how they look on film all the time like remember tandre swep was the one that won the outlet like the other guy in that room it was just like when s Gardner and Kobe Turner were both on that Cincinnati Bearcats defense in college and Kobe won the uh won the the Thorp award because nobody threw it sauce so College voters couldn't see that that whole side of the field was just deleted like Byron was the better defensive tackle in that room but he was getting the double teams yeah he was getting all the eyes there and so you had dant who's a mountain of man who's still a very good player but it's just it's one of those things where it's like oh you watch it and every time you watched it was 90 and burn orange so I saw enough for the science to know like oh yeah he's going to figure this out pretty soon and like again having Leonard play as well as he did early on in that I think is important because now it's like all right if you got to worry about both of them and the scheme does such a good job of getting guys one-on ones it's only a matter of time before we really see like the light fully go on there well and it opens up so much else I mean eneno nuosu has been basically a 10- sack guy each of the last two years since coming over and he wasn't even on the field and yet nobody created more quarterback pressures than the entire NFL last year than boy MAF who's another player that I'm very excited about and if you're trying to find parallels between the Mike McDonald Ravens defense and the Mike McDonald Seahawks defense he's the javian Clowny skill set where it's the Uber athletic kind of tweener Edge versus off ball linebacker guy you can drop him into coverage but he's just that fast twitch like borderline Olympian athlete right it was so cool to see Moy uh uh Boyer weaponized as opposed to just like I hope you win your assignment it was like no we're going to put you in position to like actually go out and wreck the play and he did it I mean nine pressures in the game is insane right like if if you're playing that position and you get 50 pressures in the season you've had a great season he's on Pace for you know 153 obviously he's not going to get that but like nine just to give context for what nine pressures in the game looks like last thing I want to ask you on the defense and and this is shout out to Tex that I have with my buddies disin and Nick uh Nick who's a 49ers fan he's he's a little bit worried about having McDonald in in the division especially given what the Ravens did at the 49ers on Christmas last year and he said who is the who is the Kyle Hamilton on this defense and I I told him I said you you know I don't think there's a Kyle Hamilton role I think there's a Mike McDonald role and he had Kyle Hamilton but if you were to try and find that Swiss army knife on the defense is it not Devon Witherspoon I was just gonna say like I I think Devin's got to be the guy he's such a unique player like to be that aggressive playing that spot and have that just demeanor in your wiring automatically gives you such a leg up on so many other guys there and you kind of saw it in the usage already so yeah if there's going to be someone and again like Kyle's built like a pterodactyl so it's not a perfect comp but man it's it's as close as they're going to get no doubt yeah yeah and and my my big thing again it goes back to wind in the main sale like identify who your most dynamic players are and put them in the position to have the biggest impact possible all right I I do want to flip to the other side of the ball because you know if you had told me that Gino Smith was going to start the game with a sack and a really bad interception and then only throw for 171 yards I would have been like what the [ __ ] man no chance but then you zoom out and you look at the entire NFL and you're like oh well that was actually like the average amount of yards that a quarterback threw for uh that being said there's there is some consternation about this offense how much of it is look they're learning a new system again they're learning a new language with Ryan grub it's a very very different offense than what Shane Waldren was running and and look Chicago really struggled uh you know in their first game with Shane Waldren how much of it is that how much of it is maybe this offense isn't as talented as we think and how much of it is look they just got like two to three weak links up front and it almost doesn't matter what you call I I think to me it was twofold it was the offensive line struggled no doubt especially in protection with a lot of the like more empty stuff they wanted to do which is a part of Ryan's offense but I also think too like I mentioned it before the field position battle was just so off and I know that's something that like we talk about hidden yards and all that stuff but like I haven't seen a team take two safeties in a game and God knows how long and when you're starting backed up like that in the same quarter it's insane I would love someone in research to pull like how many times in NFL history that's happen I looked up when I was rewatching the game to like make sure that I hadn't just gone back and restarted I was like oh no that's just another safety cuz they were down inside their own three yard line again so the third time that they were backed up oh my God you guys were totally expecting it you it was guaranted 100% was waiting for the Triple Crown on that so no I I think the the the play calling got out of whack because the game script got out of whack with that so much and then once you got into normal downs and distances and found yourself in better field position you saw more what the offense could to be cuz like Gino still has the time under task with Tyler and DK like that stuff showed up on a lot of the back shoulder stuff and some of the long developing routes down the field and I think the rest just yeah like Ryan's offense like I said it's like the laser light show he wants all the eye candy before it's a lot of shifts even more than the motions and so all that takes time to get used to and like figure out all right what is this doing to benefit me at my spot at receiver and then how does it work from there but I I truly think most of that game was just field position and the offensive line not protecting well enough for it to get off the ground yeah and I'm I'm so glad you mentioned the motion and the eye candy and calling it a laser light show that's that's perfect because I think that as fans it can be difficult for us to understand just how important timing on a play is like that ball if everything goes right if you're if you're calling a pass play unless it's like a slow developing play play action or whatever most you want that ball out in 2 and a/ half seconds well you start breaking 2 and 1/2 seconds down into percentage tiles the timing on emotion the timing on First Step the timing on being able to identify what your route is as as a wide receiver you know I I think a lot of us who grew up playing football video games it's like oh the receiver is running this route we have Michael Bumpus on who you know again very talented uh decorated Collegiate wide receiver cup of coffee in The Bigs and the first time I met him we went out to lunch and I asked him what the difference between a decent NFL wide receiver is and a great one is and he said how well do you understand your plan B and you get two steps into your route and what you were trying to do might not be there how well can how quickly can you make that adjustment and I said grade at the time jsn wasn't on the team and I said grade the receivers this is three years ago on the team and he said Tyler lockett's a 9.8 at doing that I said what about DK and he said he's a seven now I asked him this past year he said he's he's up to probably an eight but you saw with the game on the line Gino was only looking one way because Denver does run a pretty Dynamic defense and you need that plan B to work and I feel like when everyone is learning a new system a guy like Tyler Lockett who maybe doesn't have the explosion and that after the catchability that he used to have still knows how in the way that Keenan Allen does he can still win in a phone booth and that's what you saw you just saw Gino lean on that down the stretch I had Tyler on my fantasy scene for like six straight years at one point like I am the biggest Tyler Lockett believer on planet Earth I love I love that guy's game so much just sat out there as the rest of the cast rotated around him and was always going to get it I completely agree it's amazing like I I always say how similar certain position groups are like I say defensive backs are just tiny offensive linemen because it's you know four or five guys that have to communicate together going backwards with a highly technical skill set to block some of the best athletes in the world and when you ask people what's the biggest differentiator for defensive lineman who would be the wide receiver comp in here it's do you have a second move do you know what to do when you know you get play action how quickly do you respond to that when your first move gets shut down so it's amazing how well that comp works both both ways for the position groups but you're absolutely right and that's why he's interesting and jsn and how quickly he can continue to do that because I think as they get the offensive line figured out like jsn really is good in that slot guy in terms of hey when you got to get the ball out quick he's going to be the closest to the action you saw that pop up on a couple of times and so I think him is the third wide out in that offense that that's the other thing again like the offense was so perfect to parachute into this because like at Washington you had Roma dun you had Jaylen Hulk as like the defined one too and then you had Jaylen McMillan or Jeremy Bernard or like these other guys that could fit more of that role that jsns in right now on the pecking order that get a lot of touches their way because there is attention paid to those other guys yeah you know I I think that as as Seahawks fan and and this isn't unique of course to Seahawks fans this true fans of any team you just pay so much more attention to the games that you're watching and unless you have one of those top five or six six universally acclaimed Elite quarterbacks there's always going to be some debate over how good your quarterback is I mean we still see it with guys like Jared Goff and Tu taga VOA and Brock perie who within a year those are going to be three of the five or six highest paid football players in NFL history Gino to me is kind of in that batch but again I'm I'm close to the action and and I say this I'm I'm a Geno believer but listeners to this show know that that was an evolution for me I didn't come into the post Russell Wilson trade saying like oh yeah we're good we got Gino I was like yeah doesn't matter if Gino wins the job or Drew lock wins the job they're not going to be there the next year and then Gino was awesome and at some point you just have to say this guy is making the place but that's just my perspective I don't want you to cater to me I want an honest opinion but if it agrees that's great what are your views on Gino Smith where does he fall in the pantheon NFL quarterbacks I think on his best day he's a top half of the league guy like he's not a top 10 guy by any means but that's a tough group to crack considering what we know about The Talented quarterback around the league I think he is one like he's especially of like the group of quarterback he's in of like that middle of the NFL group that can still be good enough to win you a lot of games on any given day by the way skill set marries really well with this offense and I thought especially for him it was interesting his legs changed the game like that long touchdown scr and then the way he started to move in the poet to throws down field the way he did on that wheel they scored on later on like that stuff matters but it's all stuff like again I I just I can't get like all the comps out of my head but like he plays the game the way Michael penck played the game in that offense to where it's like not a dynamic run threat but a strong enough arm throws a really pretty ball on a rope and can play point guard for all the weapons you got he is very like Wellfit quarterback skill set wise for what they want to do here yeah yeah I I see that I see him as I don't know how big of an NBA fan you are but I see him as like a Fred Van Fleet type of player where it's like he's never going to be considered as a Chris Paul Steph Curry type of point guard but he gonna make the right decision and you're not afraid Jaylen Brunson maybe you're not afraid to lean into him in in crunch time because I think that he has that Moxy that self-belief and then of course the natural talent to actually deliver on that I'm going to ask you the same question about Mike McDonald because again we're all very excited it it it was emotional for all of us to move on from Pete Caroll but I think that if you didn't have the emotional attachment to what he's meant to the city and the franchise I think it was probably time to move on but that's a high leverage decision because you're not just replacing the guy who's calling plays on the side line on Sunday you are replacing essentially the CEO of a Fortune 500 company there is so much that comes with being the head coach in the NFL and P Carol was very good at that part of it from like a national perspective from that detached perspective that you have you look at Mike McDonald does he seem like a good hire does it seem like he's got the goods to be a successful head coach as opposed to just a defensive schemer I I think so just because I think this is always the most important thing with stuff like that he's not going to come in and try and BEP like that's the last thing you want is someone that's going to come in and try and like emulate all that stuff feel the pressure like he feels like he's got his own identity he doesn't feel the need to be out there either like we haven't talked a lot about Mike McDonald since he's been hired because he's not a sound bite he's not all that stuff like he's about the ball you hear the way that the guys in the Ravens defensive room talked about him and it seems like a guy who just as much and Dominique Foxworth talks about this all the time in a way that I love and appreciate like picking a head coach is so much more about all of the leaderships and intangibles how you teach things how you go about motivating a group of men it's why you see so many retreads I think even if you're like well John Fox hasn't been good for a long Romeo Corell hasn't won a lot of games but you know what he knows how to do is be the CEO right exactly like those other skill sets aren't necessarily like transferable in the same way like the things that make you a good play caller don't necessarily make you a good leader of men in the way that you need to be and it sounds like again we you know the way I C it's it's Josh McDaniel it's Matt Patricia it's it's just because you can scheme up a good offense or defense doesn't mean you can run a locker room and at the end of the day like the the unfortunate like true but unsexy answer is we don't know like we're always seeing the tip of the iburg on the outside looking in and so I just usually take my cues from what do the guys that have played for him say about the way he goes about his business and every time you hear these Ravens guys talk it seems to be pretty glowing about Mike McDonald not just hey the defensive mind but like the teacher the leader all the stuff that matters more well and and honestly like to me the first family of football are the harbas in the way that the Hurley are the first family of basketball right and it's just like look this is a guy who has basically spent I I think has officially spent his entire time as a professional football coach from third down linebacker Blitz specialist with the Ravens all the way through being defensive coordinators at both Michigan and Baltimore he's a Harbaugh guy and like I have a lot of faith in the Harbaugh mentality when it comes to running a program yeah it it's it's top down and I I think those guys in particular like do such and listen we understand like and I I think that's the encouraging part too is you come from that and he's not trying to do his Jim Harbaugh impression he's not trying to do his John Harbaugh impression like again you haven't seen any of that stuff where he feels the need to emulate those parts of it the best coaches are the ones that can take from the people that Mentor them but still stay true to themselves and it seems like by all account Mike's been able to do that well you've you've been in locker rooms for great teams I mean players can pick up on authenticity yeah oh you can smell a phony a mile away like and it it and like I think the easiest way like is like the accountability stuff like players see when you're ducking smoke and it sets the tone for everyone else like stuff's really real but yeah like and and to the point like I guess that's why I trust so much of what I hear because you're never going to lie on a coach either like if you ask a guy about a coach that he played for he doesn't have to tell you that he didn't mess with him or not you'll hear it in the way that he chooses to answer and how he chooses to spin that and the guys that really rock with their coaches it pours out of them because when you get a teacher and someone that actually impacts your career and your life the way that a good coach does it's all you want to talk about you gush about it so that stuff to me is is pretty easy to find you can't fake the funk yeah yeah totally all right we're going to we're going to take two steps back out but first we're going to take one step out and I want you to handicap the NFC West right now the 49ers are one and0 the Seahawks are 1 and0 the Rams and Cardinals are 0 and one if you had to predict the finishing order in this division what does it look like I would say I would go man I I I know I'm probably still operating on dated software like to me San Francisco is the obvious one um I there's still part of me man that like as long as it's Stafford and McVey there that defense looked like it had some juice too in Los Angeles the injuries on the offensive line scare the hell out of me puka being out scares the hell out of me but as football as a football F cawks fan hey puka take your time but as a football fan man it sucks he's hurt that guy is Danny Danny Roos in pads like he is such a he has so much football joy in him he was on the set with us like you know how the Super Bowl week goes by the end of the week we're all running on fumes we're breathing out vodka and he joined us on the set like Thursday or Friday and he walked away and I looked at my dad I was like I want to be a better man now from being around him like he just has so much joy and Juice in the way that he goes about us I pray he never loses it I pray the game never makes him jaded or the business ever makes him jaded so yeah we are worse as a football public without pukaa being on the field but I'd still probably go 49ers Rams Seahawks Cardinal and the thing is like I think they're all going to be good like I'm I I told you I it's a tough division this year it's it's a juggernaut like the biggest area that I'm concerned about because I still think the Cardinals defense is too far off to really crack that top three but it's just going to be between Seattle and the Rams who can get their offensive line situation stabilized enough the soonest in order to go out there and make some things happen because at the end of the day Stafford's still like on his best day of top five quarterback in the league ability wise oh my God saw that on display Sunday night absolutely absolutely I mean Stafford is that dude I I am such a Believer and I was so happy I've I've said this before look again as a Seahawks fan you you wish nothing but the worst on your division Rivals but like as a football fan which I am first and foremost I say I'm a football fan first Seahawks fan second it was so cool to see Stafford win a Super Bowl and like Elevate out of that Matt Ryan Philip Rivers kind of tier where it's like yeah you got a bunch of stats but you never did it and I'm not like a Rings Define your legacy guy but still that's a lot of fans and it was cool to see him get that one it's not it's nice to see that guy get the validation cuz like you see it from his peers that's become the coolest thing about having some of the young quarterbacks who talk well is when it's Caleb and when it's CJ out there they're all like yeah I watch Matt Stafford cuz he's a [ __ ] dude yeah absolutely all right we're going to zoom out a little bit further first I'm going to ask you do you believe and again I mean Pander Pander if it's if it's the honest opinion but don't Pander for the sake of pandering because that's not what this show is about do the Seahawks feel like a contender or a pretender um I think they feel like a contender now like I it's make the playoffs I was gonna say that's that's to me is like they feel like froggy playoff team like not like win games in the playoff but like get to Wild Card Weekend yeah they seem like a team that has that as a ceiling this year for sure okay and and you know wherever Mike McDonald's gone it's been a two-year process always right like he's taken over a bad defense he did it at Michigan when they were 119th in points allow and it took him two years to get to the top 10 when you took over the Ravens defense they were 25th in points allow people forget that cuz we just assume the Ravens are a great defense every year they weren't when he took over that's why they brought him in and it took him two years to get them to number one to me 24 anything they do this season is like gravy I'm hoping for like a Dan Campbell influence on this team where it's like okay you see that the culture has changed and that there's real prom here but it doesn't get actualized most likely until year two that's kind of where I'm at with this team yeah and I think that's a great compound like a great reminder that like the lions got to where they are because they were given time like there was a point early on in that like especially going into year two with Dan where people were like I don't know are they just going to keep being the team that plays in a bunch of these close games and then ultimately loses and we get to see redf Dan Campbell hunched over on the sideline until they broke through so I think being ble to see progress in ways that aren't just wins and losses is going to be very important but I also do think they have a chance to find some of those wins sooner than later too that I mean that would be a lot of fun for all of us I'm goingon to last question we're going to zoom all the way out you look at the NFL like I don't know how much week one affects where you're at like I I for example I saw the Bengals as being one of those teams that's a contender and they looked atrocious in week one now de Higgins is out Jamar Chase was sick but still they like played really bad football how much do you read into that all all of that stuff I want you factor that into this answer who were your final four coming into the season and has that changed after week one um my final four coming into the season I believe was like very unsexy and very unlikely math wise but I think I had pretty much the same final four as last year like I think the and the the 49ers are the two best teams in the NFC I believe the Chiefs I'm picking the Chiefs to three Pete like Patrick Mahomes has rent rentree in my brain until further notice for all the earned reasons and then I I still thought the Ravens would probably figure it out outside of that now week one we saw hey that offensive line going to be an issue in a work in progress and so that was the one thing that gave me pause but I had kind of factored that into the model early in the season so of those four I still feel pretty good about it after the fact like there was something I could take away from all those games even you know the Ravens in a loss the lions in a battle against a beat up Rams team that I could say okay that looks like the DNA of someone who come December is going to be in the place I need him to be yeah yeah I'm I'm I'm close uh I'm a Believer in the Eagles even though I think Nick serani is a total donkey I I I think that there is no head coach in the NFL that relies on the talent of his coordinators more than anything else in fact I think it's like reflected in his job title he like chief of sideline operations or something like that whereas like yeah when he had Shane Sten and uh uh and uh Ganon it's like oh yeah this team is amazing you remove those two guys and they're terrible well they brought in great coordinators on both sides of the ball I I do think the Eagles lose to the lions in the NFC championship game and I I do think this is the year the Ravens break through I've got the Lions over the Ravens in the Super Bowl but yeah I mean look if it's the 49ers and the Chiefs again like who's going to be surprised not me no I I think it's again like the ners it's it's grounded in like hey the roster basically stayed status quo and we've seen like every year like the Brock py conversation gets so skewed like the guy has gotten better every year he's grown up in the most hospitable quarterback environment in the NFL and now he's been sitting with the same pieces for what three years now like that's incredible in the modern NFL to have this many important parts of the same offense Stay Together ask the Chiefs about that they barely even get to do that anymore so I think you combine that with the fact that the Chiefs overcame like the wide receiver room that we had the most questions about in a long time last year and actually went out and like they got new answers like the 49ers stayed the same the Chiefs went out and got a bunch of new stuff to play with to try and make the offense look like it used to so that's why I just look at those two teams and go like barring anything crazy and unforeseen you know Chiefs got a rookie left tackle they're going to keep breaking in there's going to be growing pains with that we saw them show up a little bit night one but I I just still like if it ain't broke don't fix it and those two ain't broke seriously man I mean for all the well Justified talk about Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce how lucky are the Chiefs that Steve Spagnola has no interest in being a head coach somewhere I was saying to someone the other day I wonder if there's like a handshake agreement behind the scenes that whenever Andy decides to hang it up you got like a coach and waiting thing there cuz it is wild that offseason it's like a ger Mayo situation yeah yeah like CU we talk about with like Ben Johnson and Bobby SLO and all these offensive guys but it's like yeah spags just keeps wanting to stay here and throw Haymakers at everybody and we're cool with that you're right totally look Mike man this has been one of the most enjoyable hours I've had talking ball I I can't thank you enough for making the time to come and chat with us today no appreciate you having me man ton of fun we love to do it again sometime yeah well we'll definitely take you up on that before we let you go where can the people listening and watching find more of you yeah uh at Gojo and go on all social medias the show handle there we Monday through Friday 8: to 10: a.m. eastern on DraftKings Network a YouTube channel Samsung TV plus all those great streaming services so check us out there wherever you get your podcast and uh on all the social media we'll just post Clips there so even if you can't watch us you can't avoid us on your social feeds we're inevitable as always you can find Mike and I on social media as well I am on Twitter at Jackson bevans That's JS o n remember that no K is okay when spelling my name Mike is on Twitter Mike barwin and the show itself is at cigar thoughts you can catch full video episodes on our YouTube channel at cigar THS and find the rest of our socials at cigars nfl.com as we mentioned previously this episode is brought to you by Glen fit premium single malt scotch whiskey you all know I'm a huge fan of their lineup and we are thrilled to have them on board as a sponsor of the show and one of the great things about a great Scotch is how well it plays with a good cigar so once again we do have our own special releases of cigars that you can purchase at a terrific price as a listener of the show the release of these cigar thought stogies has been successful enough for us to continue offering them to you for the low low price of $149 that's right just 149 bucks for a bundle of 10 and you can choose between the cigar THS Originals which a little bit darker and the new red zones which are a little bit lighter with the Connecticut wrapper as many of you know we partnered with one of the most prestigious cigar manufacturers in the world to release these official cigar thought cigars you can again order directly from cigars nfl.com just follow the link on the show page to get these easy to smoke stoies W with 13year age premium Dominican tobacco leaf or hit us up on Twitter or Instagram we'll send you the details directly the scars are going to come with a Bita humidification pack and a myar storage bag to make sure they stay fresh whether you've got a humid or or not of course you can listen to this show and read every article at field goals.com the first one of the season is up now those are written in the hour after every Seahawks schem and if you're listening on Spotify or apple podcast and you like the show please drop us a festar rating and leave a quick review coming up on 500 fstar ratings couldn't be more proud of that so please if you like it add to the pile I want to thank all of y'all listening for your continued support of the show you know you've only got so much time for podcast in your life and it is an honor to be a part of that for y'all know that by sharing the show on social media and with your friends you give us the juice to keep making this happen we we will be back soon but in the meantime onwards and upwards my friends [Music] [Applause] [Music]