Caller: "Abortion Is Morally Wrong, Because..." | Talk Heathen: Throwback

N I believe it's nikota uh in North Carolina pronouns are he him wants to talk about abortion being morally wrong yes let's do this so Ben you sound eager so let's let's I won't I won't get I won't get in your way get in your way how you doing hey how you doing good so so yeah R run us through uh through your claim here I got like a 30 second rant that I to go through um can I can I get through it without being in no no rant yeah no no rant uh preferably but but because we're I gotta get I gota get some some P shout outs and patrons and stuff so let's try to keep yeah let's try to keep it yeah convey as much as you can but but in short as possible all right all here we go uh says abortion is morally wrong we as atheists have no problem acknowledging that the concept of inherit sin is immoral we have no problem acknowledging that if there is a God that it would be immoral for him to sentence us to an eternity of fire and brimstone these same atheists would have you believe that a woman has the right to murder a human being that in most cases being a direct result of their actions all right so I'm gonna I'm G to jump in right here CU I think we are very inconsistent uh about what abortion is and I don't think people understand what abortion is what is abortion uh killing a human uh NOP potential Noe okay so let me let me talk a little bit so uh abortion there are very specific definitions according to the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology so abortion specifically refers to the ending of a pregnancy 20 weeks or earlier in gestation this does not mean it is caused by a doctor or a surgeon it could be a a spontaneous abortion anything that causes the pregnancy to end 20 weeks or earlier is an abortion likewise anything that's beyond 20 weeks that ends a pregnancy is a delivery because if you are going to end the pregnancy after 20 weeks at that point you're going to have to either induce a delivery or they're going to spontaneously deliver and in both of these cases there is no assumption that the gestation or the fetus is alive or not this has nothing to do with the state of of living for the fetus it is only about the state of the pregnancy does that make sense so if you were to have a spontaneous ending of pregnancy prior to 20 weeks we call that a spontaneous abortion or we call that a miscarriage um a if you were to do that intentionally uh that would be a ter mintion likewise if you delivered let's say you were at 36 weeks so you're not quite a term um and you you deliver uh you have to some medical complication you need to get the baby out that is also a termination of pregnancy or even if you're at term and you need to get the baby out but you need to use some medical means that is a non-spontaneous termination of pregnancy so knowing those those definitions I think we're not talking about the same thing when we're talking about abortion I think all that is irrelevant um everybody knows what abortion means uh in generic terms um I'm talking about specific so you're talking about non-spontaneous you're talking about a termination yeah so do all terminations end in the loss of life of the fetus no okay so is that is is that wrong if you were to terminate a pregnancy and the fetus was alive that is I think we'd both agree that that is a termination that is like we both agree that that's okay no how come well I'm G finish on with my rant um because look I I can drop you from the show let's say I I need to terminate a pregnancy I have a baby that is at 37 weeks this is a term baby well I think I need to get it out and the baby's probably going to live it's got a very high chance of survivability I need to terminate the pregnancy that's awesome is that is that moral is that okay that's not what I'm talking about though so set your parameters then what context are you talking about that makes it not okay when it's when it's not okay um uh woman specifically kills the kid okay so anytime let me get this correct anytime you need to terminate a pregnancy and the the fetus is not does not survive under ending context is is that not okay are there contexts where that might be okay I don't agree yeah when it it when it involves you risking your life risking it where there's a probable chance that you will die yeah I don't agree that you should give up your life someone else okay so there are contexts where termination is is appropriate so then we can't go back and say that that abortion or termination is is just inherently wrong right there are contexts there are contexts that apply and so I think applying such a broad term to something that we've established now is is referring to a narrow context maybe we should talk about the narrow context yeah otherwise you're just gonna be in a performative contradiction talking about I really couldn't finish so um but uh man I don't even know where I'm at um yeah I I just don't think it's right for a woman to just kill a kid just because it's an inconvenience to them because they specifically had so many options to you know niod are are you on speaker phone because if you are I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to get off speaker if you are sorry yes yes one second yes please get off speaker phone listen to the screeners they give good advice all right can you hear me now yeah it's way better without the all behind it so yeah I can hear you yeah that's the win yeah it is I'm just I don't think it's right for uh someone to terminate a pregnancy for convenience factor okay so don't do it of uh me yeah so don't do it uh well I can't I mean I'm so are you are you asserting that you're going to make the decision for somebody else um I think the court system makes a decision for men when they have them paying child support so why is the court stepping in now this is um do you think that the court or you are going to be able to make the right decision for someone in a medical standpoint let's say we have a person who's coming to me I'm I'm their gynecologist and um they need to they want to terminate their pregnancy and um there are probably multiple factors involved uh are you going to step in and make that decision well and with that for convenience because that's convenience is uh uh I don't want a bigger belly or I don't want to raise a kid that I spefic specifically went out of my way almost to uh so how are you determining that that was their motivation because they got condoms they got spermicidal lube they got okay how are you specifically determining that that is that is their motivation are you are you talking to them are you providing them care how are how are you getting this information that that you have all the information in this context what gives you the ability to make this decision for them care all the time with all all if I um if they have the baby I do provide them care with all the taxes I pay and you pay and everybody else pays okay so so for adoption so not talking about you in a specific you and your partner context it sounds like you're trying to make a broad statement that nobody should be having these terminations so how are you determining that all of these other cases are for that one reason are you in the room listening to their story to determine if their intentions are what what they say they are who's the Arbiter of their intent here subjective to me so why do you get to make that decision why is this your call why not why not are you realizing that you haven't really thought this out like because it seems that like you should at this point be understanding that it out if your thing is just why not and you can't actually justify your claim right then clearly you didn't think about it because I mean like when I believe something like I have a justification for it right you didn't it didn't seem like justification even entered in your mind towards that at all actually but I want to pose something to you because it's very easy to sit back and make decisions when you don't face any consequences for it put yourself in my shoes or another doctor's shoes or the patient shoes but like specifically right now I'll put you in my shoes you have somebody coming to you for help and they have a very complex scenario involving um their body their health care you need to make a decision as their doctor and whatever decision you make you take full respons ility if it goes well sure it's great it went well but if it goes wrong that is your responsibility you are the person to blame for this are you going to readily make the such broad statements knowing that what you say and what you do are meaningful and they matter and you will probably be penalized you won't get penalized uh that's what insurance is for no actually I would doctor has they have liability insurance they have we have liability insurance but we can also lose our license we have medical boards I I sat through a medical board meeting where they just dragged doctors like through the mud because of decisions they made people losing their licenses over decisions they made that seemed like minor decisions during that time it is not easy to take this kind of responsibility and I think it's incredibly Reckless and irresponsible for people to think that they can make these decisions and not and not have that responsibility it's a huge weight are you ready to bear that weight and if not maybe this isn't your decision to make I think it is I think I think all right nakota give a reason don't just say you think it is give a reason engage with Ben right stop just waiting for your turn to talk give a reason engage with what he's saying right I want to know your answer to this question are you ready to take responsibility for your statements like I I did I did answer it might have cut out I can't hear it but I said I would I would definitely uh take accountability if it was my decision if it was for certain reasons you know um life and death of the patient that uh came in uh I yeah so how would you determine that it's a life or death situation you know it's not that black and white when someone comes in it's usually very uh gray areas and that's why we have to study so hard and go through so much education to even get there because these are difficult decisions to make and you have to make the call are you ready for that responsibility I don't see I would I would if um but like usually there's no reason for people to have an abortion oh I will push back on that I will push back on that yeah push back please yeah so even just scientifically not even factoring in things like um socioeconomic situations because that's probably one of the primary reasons people would would get an abortion um but thinking medically people who are uh high risk for for seizures people history of of preclampsia or clamps like if you have a seizure during your pregnancy it could be pretty likely that you'd have sustained damage um having certain medical conditions that would put you at a high-risk pregnancy if you were to terminate earlier on uh versus taking the risk of having complications down the road um pregnancy is not benign by any means even beyond the physical changes of of um like skin elasticity and certain metic things even besides that the risk of a pregnancy are not this is not a decision that anyone should be making for just anyone my my risk of having seizures my risk of having blood clots my risk of having other complications kidney damage should not be left up to somebody else there are legitimate reasons to get a termination so um you're saying the doctor like I heard what all what you just said the doctor has to count take accountability but the woman yeah chose not to do anything to prevent prevent it has no no accountability all you don't know that you don't know that Mur someone do they you don't know you don't know that they didn't take take steps to prevent it number one and a lot of times they can't prevent it even if even if everything was consider ual and you used protection it is not 100% effective I mean you could use the spermicidal you could be abstinent they're not 100% effective there is risk there is still risk abstaining is but you're gonna kill a whole human just because of inconveniences you that's not the reason it's the majority of time that is not the reason that is absolutely a straw man you're building up the easiest thing to tear down that's like so intellectually dishonest it amazes me that you don't even see that either right like because Ben just expressed a multitude of ideas and what you came with was one thing which was a straw man that you built so it was easier for you to seemingly knock down yeah I mean I'll let y'all go because y'all just want to talk over people and I can't finish no yeah we'll let you we'll let you go because we try to take intellectually honest callers right so just think just review over it look back over it see how you you waited for your turn to talk right then you did engage and I'll give you credit on that I appreciate that but then you stopped engaging and you just decided to build a straw man that you could easily tear down instead of actually engaging with what Bennett said right that's fine you can project to me all you want doesn't matter right