Carrington Valentine vs. Eric Stokes - Who Will Be CB2?!

[Music] happy Wednesday everybody welcome into an all new episode of the Packa day podcast I'm your host Andy Herman you can follow me on Twitter at Andy Herman NFL thanks again for making Packa Day part of your daily routine quick shout out to cheesehead TV and Packa report huge Friends of the show make sure you're checking out their content every single day they support pack a day so make sure you are supporting them as well today we are going to be going over one of the best training camp battles that is about to take place on the entire roster and it's not a who's going to make the 53 man roster battle it is who is going to start at corner opposite Gyer Alexander and this is probably one of the very few starting battles that is going to be taking place in all of training camp there's probably a couple spots up for grabs on the offensive line and we kind of know there's going to be some potential to rotate through those we talked about the potential you know different options that the Packers have at that offensive line spot if you didn't listen to that episode highly recommend checking that out but there's probably six guys that are fighting for five spots it's going to come down to Rasheed Walker Jordan Morgan and Shawn Ryan maybe Josh Myers but in all likelihood probably just going to come down to those three for two spots with Myers getting Center and Jenkins and Tom being the other ones running back is going to be Jacobs wide receiver they're going to rotate all of those guys so much anyway I don't really care who's the starters same thing with mus Graven craft one of them will be the one one of them will be the two they're both going to play a ton uh defensive ends we know are going to be Gary and Preston with the rest you know with LVN and and egari rotating in same thing on the defensive tackle as wide receiver like Kenny Clark's going to play a ton and then the rest of the guys Wyatt Slayton and Brook specifically are just going to rotate a bunch linebacker Quay is going to be one I think we can just say edrian Cooper's going to be number two yes it's going to be maybe a training camp battle it's only going to be a training camp battle until they officially give it to edre Cooper like it's gonna happen so uh we can kind of leave that one there Jer is going to start I think still kesan gets the slot position xaver mcken is going to be the safety and then maybe there's a battle between Javon Bullard Anthony Johnson Jr and you know maybe katano ladapo Evan Williams but that probably just ends up being Javon Bullard so what you end up with is kind of again that offensive line battle and then today's episode today's topic Eric Stokes versus Carrington Valentine and who wins that starting job opposite of Gyer Alexander so in order to kind of go through all of that we have to first start with where things are right now in 2023 Carrington Valentine played 846 snaps as a rookie he was a seventh round pick a season to go and he started in 14 games this is not your normal average seventh round rookie who maybe got a couple snaps here and there this was a legitimate starting Corner through almost the entirety of last season Eric Stokes meanwhile has only played 587 snaps combined in the past two seasons so Carrington 846 last year Stokes 587 in the last two years combined Valentine started 14 games last year Stokes only has two starts in the last uh sorry 11 starts in the last two seasons combined and we should also note that Eric Stokes has looked nothing like himself over those past two seasons prior to the injury in 2022 and then after the injury in 2023 he has not looked like the rookie first round pick version of Eric Stokes per PFF Eric Stokes grades over his three seasons in the NFL had a 63.5 grade as a rookie a 50 3.7 as his second year before he got injured and then a 51.5 grade in the two games that he came back and played in a season ago so 655 537 515 now as much as we all love Carrington Valentine you can't say that he just went out and absolutely crushed it he played well for a seventh round pick and for a rookie but his grade 57.5 worse than stokes's rookie season but better than his second and third season grades for me I hadd Stokes as a plus 1.25 grade as a rookie 3.65 in his second year negative .25 in those two games from a season too my grade for Valentine last year was a negative 1.45 grade now in for anyone that knows me that anyone's that been following me for any period of time I hope you know how much I really enjoy Carrington Valentine I think he can be a legitimate starter but that doesn't mean that he was just all of a sudden seventh round pick enter him in and he's great he's an unbelievable corner on the outside from day one there were plenty of issues and hiccups on tape from a season ago that he's going to need to improve upon in year two in order to take that step and potentially earn that spot over Eric Stokes we should also note that in OTAs and in mini camp it was Eric Stokes that was the number one corner opposite Gyer Alexander now there were only two practices that we were to that we got to see as as media members thater Alexander was practicing and there was a starter opposite of him in those two specific practices it was Eric Stokes when Jer was not there or was not practicing it was Stokes and Valentine starting because it is such a small sample size meaning we only saw two of the open practices and remember they had other practices that were not open to the media in OTAs it very well could have been that on the days that we were not there it was Valentine starting and Stokes was not the guy we don't know if there was some sort of rotation there and it just so happened that the two days that there was open to the media that we could see who was opposite Jer it just happened to be Stokes or it may have been Stokes the entire time but it's worth noting there were only two practices we got to see with a starter opposite jier and it was Eric Stokes both times the other thing we should note here is that both Eric Stokes and inton Valentine have received heaps of Praise through OTAs in mini camps specifically from Matt laflor they talked about how or Matt laflor talked about how with kingon Valentine they asked him to put on strength he put on a bunch of muscle he looks in great shape best shape of his career sort of season uh but he he looks fantastic he looks like he did exactly what they asked him to do doesn't look like he lost a step at all he looks like he's in phenomenal shape and Eric Stokes Matt laflor said is in the best physical and mental shape of his entire career or that he looks better physically and mentally that he's looked in his entire career that's pretty high praise for him as well and the other thing we should probably note as well is that this was a position that was a bit of a question mark going into this offseason Jer Alexander was suspended a year ago did not play up to his normal standard Eric Stokes as we talked about has not been himself the past two years has had a plethora of injuries carington Valentine was solid to average to good for a rookie in his first year but still some question marks there kesan Nixon was up and down in the slot you know Cory Ballentine was a great story but it's not like he's just this automatic plug-and-play starting Corner yet the only real addition to the entire cornerback room outside of G green was a seventh round pick kin King and it's Not Like Green Bay was lacking for draft Capital they had plenty of draft Capital to spend and they didn't spend a single ounce of draft capital on a corner until their very last pick which was almost the last pick of the entire draft and again that was kin King and in free agency we saw them spend money we saw them spend money on Xavier mcken we saw them spend money on Josh Jacobs they did bring back kesan Nixon with a solid contract but they could have gone out and spent money on free agency corner and they did not what that would probably tell you is that they have faith in their current Corner Room and that is what Brian gakin and Matt laflor have said over and over again is that they like the state of this cornerback room I'm not sure they would have said otherwise not like they're going to come out and be like yeah yeah we're we're bracing for impact these guys are terrible uh buckle up because it could be a long year no I'm but I I do legitimately believe that the tell here is that they did not go and get anyone really in free agency or in the draft outside of a complete free agent flyer in gem green and a complete very last you know pick of the draft almost flyer in kin king that's all they added so that would tell me they feel pretty good about both kington Valentine and Eric Stokes which I'll say one more time they have praised those two to the nth degree so far this off season Eric Stokes was obviously a first round pick in 2021 kington Val was a seventh round pick in 2023 the last thing before we kind of break this down a little bit further that is also worth noting from this offseason is the Packers did not pick up Eric stokes' fifth year option this off season so he will be an unrestricted free agent after this season regardless if he plays amazing or terrible or anything in between he will hit the open market unless Green Bay and Stokes come to some sort of agreement on a long-term deal prior to him becoming a free agent but before those negotiations even remotely take place the Packers are going to see need to see a lot more from Eric Stokes this upcoming year so let's go to the sort of the two scouting reports for both of these players coming out of college because yes Eric Stokes is going into year four but we really only saw rookie year Eric Stokes so it's sort of worth revisiting this and yes Carrington Valentine played last year we'll go through some of those notes as well but really he again is is just one year removed from college the talent themselves like the players that they are is still going to match very much their initial Scouting Report Eric Stokes coming out 6' 194 9.37 relative Athletic score did all the testing a 431 40-yard dash here was this Scouting Report from nfl.com strengths occasional flashes of playmaking instincts had two interception returns for touchdowns in 2020 poised through press relase stands as ground against physical targets fights back against push-offs at the top of the route can run with mismatch caliber speedsters on Crossing routes hyper Twitchy with downhill drive to his Target plays into the receiver when phasing downfield his weaknesses slim lower body with lack of play strength doesn't fully trust what he sees yet mostly right place right time interceptions takes extra steps on lateral transitions from Shuffle to backpedal that is definitely something that showed up tardy gaining playmaking positioning and coverage below average Poise in Balance downfield opponents run through his solo tackle tries and he's likely to be isolated and targeted by Run games the overview speed and quickness should allow him to stay with route runners or within closeout distance when he gets behind we saw that his rookie year Stokes played with better press technique in 2020 and he's willing to get physical near the goal line but his play strength is below average while there have been mild flashes of playmaking potential he's more likely to play the receiver rather than attacking the the football and looking for takeaways he's Twitchy in tight quarters with the potential to become more disruptive in zone his size speed and athleticism could make him a day two pick as a future Corner three but his weaknesses as a run Defender will be challenged quickly by NFL offenses Carrington Valentine Scouting Report 511 193 coming out 9.30 R did not do the three cone 444 40 yard dash 4.44 seconds in the 40 his strengths from nfl.com wellb built with a long athletic frame capable of handling press and bail coverages limited cornerback experience with room for improvement adequate plant and drive from the top of his his drop faces up to deep sideline throws and locates the ball rakes through catch point to jar the ball free weaknesses only one career interception and multiple drops of wouldbe interceptions not enough juice to close out receivers after coverage missteps below average aggression handling run stopping duties takes giant bites out of double moves and takes some very poor angles to ball carriers his overview Valentine has the physical traits necessary for the NFL but his instincts and body control to extend his coverage against quality route Runners leave something to be desired he's solid Co solid at crowding vertical throws and can play press and bail but he has had coverage bust in zone also he bites too easily on double moves Valentine's lack of aggression as a run Defender could make it tougher for Zone teams to give him a chance so so again both of these players very interesting players we've seen them both start in Green Bay we saw Stokes have a lot of success as a rookie take major step back in year two before having a plethora of injuries and then coming back super Rusty for two games in year three carington Valentine meanwhile a lottery ticket seventh round selection that immediately showed in training camp ota's mini camp that he was a player that they could potentially count on going into the season he played a ton in his rookie season as a seventh round pick got more snaps than I'm sure they were probably maybe hoping or expecting that he would he overall held up well not great not fantastic but for a seventh round rookie pretty darn impressive now here's the thing about Valentine before we get into how both of these players fit in Jeff Halley's defense I've talked about this on numerous occasions in the past especially at corner Demaryius Randall Quinton Rollins Josh Jackson Eric Stokes all four of those players as Rook I think back to just their rookie year we felt pretty good about them as rookie Corners that they were solid to good to adequate as a rookie and all we're thinking is man imagine now what they're going to be through the rest of their career as they continue to progress and get better Eric Stokes got worse Josh Jackson got worse Quinton Rollins got worse Demaryius Randall got worse larius Gunter got worse so some of these guys that look really good right away or at least adequate solid that were maybe giving a little bit more forgiveness to his rookies because they rookies and we expect them to progress and get better it doesn't always work that way with Carrington Valentine we saw a seventh round pick that showed a ton of potential that had some struggles in year one that in year one as a rookie we have the tendency to overlook a little bit more and say those are rookie mistakes that he'll clean up over time if he does look out if doesn't we might have a very similar conversation to some of these other rookies that looked okay year one but then never got better and that's what we're trying to avoid clearly with Carrington Valentine and hopefully he can take that step this upcoming season now how do both of these players fit within Jeff Halley's defense one both should benefit this is going to be a more attacking aggressive press man or at least man-to-man coverage defense are they going to use zone of of course obviously goes without saying they'll throw every coverage uh that is known to man out there but they're going to play more man than Joe Barry's defense did and that will help both of these players tremendously they will have an extra Man in the Box at safety which hopefully doesn't make it that they have to do quite as much run defending uh they're still going to have to do it but the more important thing here is in coverage they are going to get matched up in situations that I think both of these players enjoy a lot more and are built for more as man cover Corners now that doesn't mean their job is easier in fact in a large way playing man I think probably the harder of of the two coverage skill sets but for these two corners in particular and for Jer Alexander this is what they like to do this is what they were built to do Joe Barry was running a defense with man a zone defense with man Corners now he has man corner or this defense that they're man Corners that are actually going to get to play man defense that should be a huge benefit to both of these players and I think we're going to see those Natural Instincts and that aggressive mentality from Carrington Valentine come out and we're going to see I think some opportunities for him to jump on some routes and maybe get some interceptions I know he only had the one in college he was a machine in training camp picking off passes a season ago I think that will carry over with Eric Stokes he is built for this sort of Defense he's got the speed he's got the size he has the physicality now he doesn't always use it the best but he has it it's at his disposal he is built for this type of Defense so both of these guys should absolutely benefit both are better in man coverage both want to play more aggressive Stokes at his best is a near perfect fit for Jeff Halley's defense both of these players are outside corners I do think Valentine could play a bit in the slot but I think both of them are going to be primary outside corners which is why we're not talking about Stokes versus kesan Nixon or Carrington Valentine versus kesan Nixon jier is an outside corner Stokes is an outside corner Valentine's an outside corner uh jer's going to get one of those and then it's going to be up to either Stokes or Valentine to win that other spot and I will say I would love both of them to improve their run defense and tackling in 2024 and the player that does that and shows Improvement might just get a leg up and actually earning that long-term starting spot at that outside corner position opposite G Alexander the advantages and disadvantages to each first of all it would be hard to argue that Stokes wasn't the better peer player SL prospects coming out of college and he had a better rookie season than Cory uh than sorry than Kon Valentine had Stokes is bigger he's faster he's stronger like I said he is built for this style of defense and there's a very clear reason why Stokes was a first round guy and Valentine was a seventh round guy now with Stokes may be overdrafted in the first probably he was probably always more of a second round guy Green Bay took him at the end of round one now what are you going to do kington Valentine was probably always supposed to be more of a I think third fourth round guy maybe fifth that ended up going in the seventh had he gone in the third and Stokes gone in the second maybe we would to have this much of a discrepancy but one win in the first one win in the seventh but even though Stokes is the better Prospect was the better player each of their rookie seasons was The better player coming out than there's a reason he went first overall these last two years have been a nightmare for him his second year before we get into any injury before he have ever has a you know any leg anything he was awful at the start of 2022 he was awful didn't look anything like his rookie year and then of course had a you know injury that put him out the remainder of the Year almost got back you know during training camp then had a setback then finally gets back and then gets hurt on special teams has another setback finally gets back starts two games looks very Rusty and then has another setback and is out for the year after that a nightmare two seasons for Eric Stokes and again while kington Valentine we all love carington Valentine I I don't think there's any question I don't think anyone's not excited about the potential for carington Valentine but his 2023 was more okay than good to Great there is still a lot of growth for carington Valentine to do which is a good thing you want to see him take those steps but those steps are not just granted automatically those are going to be earned Stokes possesses the outside physicality and the speed to play press man on the outside Valentine has the ball skills and playmaking ability along with and this is not unimportant an abundance of confidence and Swagger Stokes you could tell partly due to the injuries and partly due to the way he was playing he lost confidence he just did and that's why Matt lefur mentioned that Eric Stokes was in the best uh you know he looked the best physically and the best mentally that he's ever seen him because there was a point these last couple years in large part due to the injuries that you could tell he just was not himself he didn't have the confidence he didn't have the energy and when you see Eric Stokes playing with confidence and energy that's when he's playing his best but you didn't see that with carington Valentine he's got Swagger and intensity and energy and positivity for days he he I guarantee you if he's got Randy Moss in his prime across from him he thinks he's going to shut him down he's got Jerry Rice in his prime he thinks he's going to shut him down the results May Vary but he has that confidence and that is a really important trait to have at corner because you are going to get beat period end of story unless you're Prime derell Rivas Prime Dion Sanders and even those guys would get beat from time to time you're going to have setbacks almost on a game by game basis you have to have the confidence to say I don't care doesn't matter I'm going to get you next time and that's what carington Valentine has with Stokes again you could see his confidence waver from time to time even in the times that he's played these past couple years the other thing though you know Valentine will need to play to his new Strength we don't know how he's going to carry this weight quite as much we think it's going to be a positive but that's going to be a little bit of a different you know sort of factor for him that we're going to have to see how he does with this this new found you know strength does it take any sort of step away and Stokes meanwhile is going to have to show that he's fully recovered both physically and mentally from all this time off over the last two seasons and really get back to playing the way that he was as a rookie this is a true battle in my opinion for the starting Corner Spot and this is one unfortunately that I can't just tell you yep here's who's going to win th this will go down through the remainder of training camp we'll see how much these guys play in preseason but it will go up to week one before I think they make a true decision then that this might be one of those scenarios where they don't announce a starter up until game time and we might be you know or you know dski and the guys that actually travel to Brazil have the binoculars out and looking who's lined up at starting Corner when they start doing warm-ups that might be when we actually learn who the starting corner is going to be if I had to guess today I think Eric Stokes wins the job I think there is something to the fact that he got those opportunities in OTAs and mini camps this is a super talented football player that they took in round one I think they're going to give him the opportunity to win it my personal preference if I had to choose today I would go with kington Valentine I think there is more natural innate Corner ability and has that Swagger and intensity and there's just something to his game that I like where with Eric Stokes it's more like he's this unbelievable athlete but he doesn't quite have the Nuance of the position yet and now we're in year four coming off a bunch of injuries in downtime and I almost just feel like you know what you didn't pick up that fifth year option for Carrington or sorry for Eric Stokes let's get Carrington Valentine out on the field because he will be here for the next few seasons guaranteed Eric Stokes is not guaranteed anything past this year and again he's had some injury concerns to go along with it as well hopefully hopefully if everything goes according to plan both of them ball out compete and are up to the task because we know the truth is they're going to need both of those guys at some point this season they're not going to go with a full season where Jer Alexander and Eric Stokes and carington Valentine all just stay healthy the entire year they're going to need all of those guys and they're going to need them at their best when those big moments come and hopefully playing their best when it matters most come playoff time and the big thing too both of these guys whoever is the starter is probably going to see more throws come their way because if you were a quarterback would you rather throw at Gyer Alexander or Eric Stokes karington Valentine you already know the answer to that question you want to throw towards the ladder you want to throw towards the one that's not number 23 so these guys are going to get a lot of throws coming their way and they're going to have a lot of responsibility planning more man coverage and the player that holds up better is the one that's going to get the majority of those snaps this upcoming season I am genuinely excited to see how this plays out I think it could go either way I think it is a true 50/50 tossup I'll say one more time my prediction will be Eric Stokes my preference as of now will be carington Valentine but I really truly hope both of them just go out and absolutely kill it that is going to do it for me today thank you so much for joining me we'll be right back here tomorrow with an all new episode shout out to our Hall of Fame and All Pro members most hated Minnesotan PJ win John wild sha Brad Brandon petta Jennifer Wright boom handle Donald Lee Lor Lord baby QB David mclusky Donald Decker Dan Miller Alex Swang araldo Espinosa Dan gford and Peter raka until next time and as always go Pac go