The Last Word With Lawrence O’Donnell - Aug. 28 | Audio Only

now it is time for the last word with Lawrence odono good evening Lawrence evening Aman thanks we're about a minute overtime with that one thank you Aman thank you sorry about that uh we are going to cover in this hour what samanth the power is calling the single largest humanitarian crisis on the planet it is probably not the one you're thinking of JD Vance is the single strangest Republican candidate for vice president in history including SPO EGU who ultimately uh pleaded guilty to tax evasion for all the bribes that he took and had to resign from the vice presidency JD Vance has said that single women who do not have or or any women married women who do not have biological children disorient and really disturb him and he does not want them to be teachers all of my elementary school teachers were women who did not have children they were all in the Catholic order of the Sisters of St Joseph they taught me to read and write JD Vance has been a Catholic for about five years so he may never have met a nun he certainly was never taught by a nun but he is willing to condemn them because he is so profoundly weird as Tim Wallace would put it the Republican candidates for President and Vice President used to both be named Donald now only one of them is James Donald Bowman is the name on JD Vance's birth certificate his mother changed his name when she remarried and didn't just change his last name she changed his middle name to David he then went through life as James David Hamill went to college under that name went to law school under that name before he got married he changed his last name to Vance which is his grandmother's last name using initials JD justess might be his way of eliminating his own personal confusion over whether his name should be James Donald or James David and James David Vance's name changes could be an enlightening experience for him perhaps JD Vance has insights earned the hard way about kids struggling with their identities JD Vance's history of name changes could mean that he is now someone who really knows who he is because unlike most of us he actually named himself in his final name change or perhaps his three different names over time have created a discomfort in him a discomfort with himself that sometimes could leave him disconnected from other people and if that's the case that means that the Republican candidate for president and the Republican candidate for Vice President are both in the most important possible ways for politicians dis disconnected from people especially people who they have never met good politicians have to spend their lives thinking about the lives of people they don't know and what they might be able to do to turn government in a direction that will help the lives of people they don't know and that is why what happened to JD Vance recently when he walked into a dut shop is just so weird and interesting JD Vance did that standard politician performance to show everyone what a regular guy he is but the only thing he could think of to say to the people who worked there was the question of how long have you worked here that was it and when they told him two years or six month he would just say Okay that was it that was his entire interaction it was widely reviewed as a failure to demonstrate that James David Vance is a regular guy he just had no idea what to say to those working people no idea at all he had no curiosity about how many jobs they might be working he had no curiosity about whether they're making the minimum wage as is common in places like that there is no evidence that JD Vance knows what the minimum wage is and it could not have been more clear that no one in that donut shop cared who JD Vance is or had any curiosity about him it just wasn't a human exchange Donald Trump who you know cares nothing about anyone working in a donut shop anywhere on the planet would have done slightly better than JD Vance in that dut shop because he would have kept his stupid Bluster flowing at least and filled up the dead air with some nonsense language Tim Walts is right they're weird weird in the sense that they are not in any way like other people Donald Trump and James David Vance are not anything like the voters they are appealing to keep that in mind now when we show you what Tim Waltz and kamla Harris did and said today and know that neither of the men on the Republican ticket could possibly appeal to people and identify with people the way Tim wals and KLA Harris can wherever they go we begin with vice presidential candidate Tim walz in Boston this morning speaking to the Convention of of the International Association of firefighters I'm going to say this cuz I know we're by par some of the gray hairs in here I know what you're thinking and I remember it too cuz it's my family when Republicans used to talk about Freedom they meant it they meant it not anymore these guys over there they want government to have the freedom to invade every corner of your life from our union halls to our kids schools even our doctor's office vice president and I we got a little bit different vision of this we believe that you not politicians should be made free to make your own health choices we believe that workers deserve to collectively bargain for fair wages safe working conditions good health care and Secure Retirement no interference from government I learned from Tim Wall's speech to the firefighters today that the vice president of the United States is related to a firefighter Donald Trump is not related to anyone who has ever done work like that fighting fires I'm honored to be on a ticket with someone else who has long supported your essential work as a native California vice president Harris knows explosive dangerous and unpredictable nature of wildfires in that state she's been to the memorials knows the depth of sacrifice that you and your families go through in fact it's a matter of family for her the vice president's brother-in-law Andy mhof spent his career as a firefighter in Santa Cruz California and retired as an IA member in good standing and the Harris Wall's campaign released a new TV ad about Donald Trump's project 2025 agenda today the campaign is running the new ad about project 2025 across Battleground States and in the television market in Florida where Donald Trump lives so that he can see it every day between now and election day Donald Trump's back and he's out for control I would have every right to go after them complete control I will wield that power very aggressively and he has a plan to get it detailed plans for exactly what our movement will do it's called project 2025 a 922 page blueprint to make Donald Trump the most powerful president ever overhauling the Department of Justice giving Trump the unchecked power to seek Vengeance eliminating the department of education and defunding K through 12 schools requiring the government to monitor women's pregnancies and severe cuts to Medicare and Social Security Donald Trump may try to deny it but those are Donald Trump's plans well Revenge does take time I will say that and sometimes Revenge can be justified he'll take control we'll pay the price I'm kamla Harris and I approve this message after a speech to the firefighters in Boston today Tim walls met vice president Harris in Georgia to begin a bus tour of that state where a recent Fox poll shows kamla Harris running ahead of Donald Trump Now 50 to 48 vice president Harris and Governor Waltz were greeted by students of Savannah State University Georgia's oldest historically black college and university K Harrison Tim Walls then visited Liberty County High School in Hinesville Georgia where they listened to the schools marching bands rehearsal [Music] [Applause] now you're about to listen to Tim Walls talking to high school students and just imagine JD Vance or Donald Trump trying to talk to high school students when you listen to con Harris talking to high school students in a moment about discipline and teamwork and great leadership imagine JD vaner Donald Trump trying to talk to high school student about about those things you'll hear conell Harris talking to a high school band telling them about her experience being in the band in high school the only gap between Tim Walls and KLA Harris and those students is an age Gap it's not a Humanity Gap they understand each other yes there are gigantic policy differences between the presidential candidates but you don't have to know anything about governing policy to see the giant Humanity difference the humanity gap between Donald Trump JD Vance and KLA Harrison Tim wals thank you thank you for that uh to the staff that's here uh my uh my previous job to this was of course public school teacher and Coach uh which I wear with pride to all of you thank you thanks for having us in your school and uh thanks to all the teams that are here I think you kind of embody this idea and the vice president talks a lot about it each of our individual talents what we can contribute um but something bigger than ourselves when you get together your single instrument alone is an amazing thing but as part of this band it becomes really amazing and then to see a school Community each and every one of these teams I said I coach football a lot but uh all of this was part of doing something bigger and I think uh having us in here stressing why the Vice President says it often that education is the key to the middle class A pathway to the middle class and it should be burdening you with debt should give you an opportunity to get there so I think when we can get into a public school like this we're able to see you and tell you it's not just uh the teachers here tell you they know they do this work uh it's not a cliche this is truly about building towards the future and you're that future and so we're in a room like this it lifts everybody's Spirits lifts the country's spirits and vice president talks about that often about the positive and the joyful work that we can do and the things that we're trying to make sure happen so I'm just grateful that you'd have us here uh I'm grateful to be part of a team with a really great head coach here uh in your next president of the United States kamla har [Applause] [Music] so you know I've been hearing about you incredible young leaders for quite some time from the players to those who are bringing joy to everybody in the stands to the music that you guys are creating and so we wanted to come by just to let you know that our country is counting on all of you you are leaders by the very fact that you all are here in this room doing what you do at this incredible school doing it as one big team understanding all of the different parts that fit together to create a team you are doing some of the best work any leader can do and we're so proud of you we were cting your Generation all that you guys stand for everything you have at stake is what is going to propel our country into the next era of what we can do what we can Le and I want to say to you that you must always lead as you have chosen to lead understanding you don't have to ask anybody's permission to leave and I think you all figured that out you decided to be a leader and in doing that you are also Ro right welcome to the role model club and being a role model right means that they're going to be members of your family people who live in your neighborhood your classmates who watch you to see oh that's how it's done and in that way you are showing what hard work can achieve what discipline can achieve what teamworking and that's the stuff of great leadership all and so we wanted to come by to remind you that our nation is counting on you we're so proud of you and everything you have achieved and I will tell you I was in band when I was your age so I know a little bit about your coach knows about the players right and all that you all are doing it requires a whole lot of rehearsal a whole lot of practice long hours right sometimes you hit the note sometimes you don't right but all that practice makes for beautiful music and that is a metaphor that is symbolic for everything that you all will do in your lives which is you're going to show what a winning team looks like you're going to show what it means to put yourself out on the field to put yourself in front of people to have the confidence to do it sometimes you're going to hit the step right sometimes you're not sometimes you're going to win the game sometimes you may not but you you know you never let any circumstance knock you down or slow you down you just keep going at it that's who you are and that's why we are so confident in everything that you are doing and will continue to do for our country so just keep being me and all of the Excellence that you're bringing to everything you do okay all right leading off our discussion tonight is democratic congresswoman Thea Williams of Georgia she is the chair of the Georgia Democratic party and was with k Harris and Tim Waltz today in Georgia uh and they came it's I just so struck by this very basic thing the the basic Humanity of these two candidates versus what we see on the Republican side and that's one of the things we saw today uh in that unique opportunity with high school students so Lawrence I not only saw that with these high school students but we went to some local stops afterwards we went to Sandfly Georgia nobody's probably ever heard of it on a map or anywhere in this country but we went to Sandfly Georgia and I had an opportunity to see Governor wall and vice president here is interact with patrons in this restaurant there's a table with some school teachers who were talking about the resources that they fought for for their students who spoke another language and just the relatability with Governor walls is he talked to a fifth grade teacher and become an experience and then VP Harris talking with a fifth grade student who was also sitting there with her family and the interactions they weren't weird they were I mean they were very genuine human interactions because that's what we do we meet people where they are and when kamla Harris is President she'll be a president for all of American not Democrats not Republicans not Independents and that's what I saw today as we went into parts of my state that are deeply red but we it didn't they didn't shy away from it because they understand that we are fighting for the future of this country and that includes all of us Lawrence so what is the campaign strategy in going into those uh Republican strongholds in Georgia so we have long said that no county is too red no county is too blue in Battleground Georgia we only won Georgia by 11,7 80 votes and you know the deputy um campaign chair for the Harris wallz campaign he was the campaign manager for rafhael waro and so he knows a little bit of something about winning in this Battleground State Quinton folks but what we're doing here is we are going into every Community we need to turn out votes in my deeply blue District in metro Atlanta but we also have to shave off the margins in these red parts of Georgia because that's what Battleground states are about no candidate is going to be way up or way down we've got to fight for every vote and president well future president Harris is not taking any vote for granted especially when we see what Donald Trump and his Republican party are trying to do around election certification and keeping people from accessing the ballot here in Battleground Georgia so we can't leave anything to chance and we are going all over the state to make sure that we secure yet another Victory here in Georgia the polling there uh since kamla Harris uh became the nominee uh has just been going straight up she now is uh two points ahead of Donald Trump is that the is that what the polls are going to look like all the way we'll be looking at you know one two-point leads so what we know is that vice president Harris is still the underdog in this race and so we cannot let up we've got to continue to organize we've got to continue to meet the voters where they are and go into all go all over the state up into North Georgia Middle Georgia South Georgia and back in my home city of Atlanta we are not taking anything for granted because we know that polls will go up and down but the voters will have the last say and that's why we have to continue to have this conversation around freedom and unity and opportunity with the people of Georgia because that's what Georgians want they want a candidate they want a president who is looking forward in moving our country into the next into the future and not the divisive and hatred politics of Donald Trump and his Republican Party Georgia Congress with Thea Williams thank you very much for starting off our coverage tonight thank you Lawrence thank you coming up while vice president Harris and Tim walz were campaigning today in Georgia they sent a young Democratic star to Rally college students tonight in Arizona we'll show you that in a moment and Simon Rosenberg will join us with the state of the race which looks better for KLA Harris every day [Music] patriotism is loving the people who live in the country caring about every single person looking everybody in the eyes every workingclass person the Working Poor every houseless person every person and saying you deserve Health Care you deserve safety you deserve a roof over your head by virtue of being a human and nothing else that is what our party stands for that is what we stand for so this election is more than just two name on a ballot it's two visions and two real realities for our country that was Florida Congressman Maxwell Frost campaigning for vice president K Harrison Tim wals in Arizona tonight joining at our discussion now with Simon Rosenberg Democratic strategist and author of The hopium chronical on substack and our overall uh poll Watcher and assessor of the state of the race Simon where are we as of tonight uh Lawrence we're in a good place uh you know as you said things just feel like they're getting better every day you know the polls have shifted about six to seven points nationally you know we're either tied or ahead in all the Battleground States so the Battleground has really changed over the last few weeks the Senate polling is really encouraging I think we've seen this explosion of support volunteers and money into our party which has made all of our candidates stronger and going to make it more capable for them to close strong in these final few months and we've seen a baton the Baton has been passed to New Generation that over the last few weeks is clearly ready to lead so I think we're in a really good place right now and I think just building on something Maxwell Frost said and we haven't talk since the convention you know I we've been at this a long time you and I and one of the things that I was really struck by last week was how the ideology of the democratic party right now feels like it's not Progressive or moderate or neoliberal or neopopulism w however we got here have tapped into something so deep and Powerful look at the video you showed earlier tonight we are in a very powerful place as a party right now in terms of our argument the passion the emotions this love of country and so I feel like what we're seeing right now is a very very strong party that is much more likely to win this election than the other side so Simon we're looking at polls now latest Fox Poll for example that shows one and TW Point leads for Harris in places like Arizona Georgia Nevada uh we we've seen polls like that in the past but they were they were not as close to election time which is why I was ignoring them and I was kind of telling people you can ignore them basically until after the conventions here we are what does a two-point lead mean now what does a onepoint lead mean now those are those are numbers within the margin of error yeah no look it's a close election but you know we are closer to 270 than Trump is today I mean the the you know the the polling in the Battlegrounds we are ahead or t tied or ahead in most of the polls in the Battlegrounds right now Trump doesn't really have a lot of polling that he can point to that shows him in a competitive place in the election so I I think that we should we're at least leading right I mean he keeps saying that he's ahead in the election he's leading in the polls that's simply a lie it's not true it's a very trumpian statement in that sense so I think the polls are better for us than they are for them and we have a much more powerful capacity to close because of all these monies the volunteers I think a far more compelling argument I mean think about what Trump and Vance have done just in the last couple days right they're like a negative news machine these guys dishonoring veterans getting into fights with people at a you know a military cemetery at Arlington National Cemetery insulting teachers and mothers it's ridiculous how these guys are playing this end game here and I and it's why I think this contrast between what you were trying to establish Lawrence tonight in that video of how connected we are right now and how disconnected they are I think is also going to really matter here in the final two months Simon Rosenberg thank you very much for joining us again tonight thanks lawence and coming up we'll have important new reporting on what cement the power calls the single largest humanitarian crisis on the planet it might not be the one you're thinking about we will hear from one of the very few Brave reporters who has been able to cross the border and witness this humanitarian disaster up close that's next the single largest humanitarian crisis on the planet it might not be the one you're thinking of cement the power was President Obama's ambassador to the United Nations in the Biden Administration saman the power serves as the head of the agency for International Development saman the PO said the situation in Sudan is quote the single largest humanitarian crisis on the planet it is also the least reported humanitarian crisis on the planet our next guest Dean Walsh is one of the few heroic reporters who has been able to get into Sudan where 12 million people have been forced out of their homes more than all the people forced out of their homes in Ukraine and Gaza combined famine is now descending on millions of people in Sudan who may starve to death 26 million people more than half of Sudan's population are suffering from what modern bureaucratic language calls food insecurity if you go a day without food that is a day you are starving if you starve for too many days you die only 5 years ago Sudan seemed on its way to a new and modern Prosperity but then the military coup overthrew the civilian government and now two Waring factions are destroying life in a country three times the geographic size of France with a population of 47 million people peace talks in Switzerland last week did not end the war but as Dean Walsh reports in the New York Times the talks did produce quote agreements to deliver food and medicine to millions of starving Sudanese in the country's most famin stricken areas joining us now is Dean Walsh Chief Africa correspondent for the New York Times Dean thank you very much for joining us tonight I know how difficult this is to schedule for you uh but uh tell us what you now think might be possible just in terms of avoiding famine after the discussions in Switzerland thanks Lawrence look the situation is almost as dark as it was before there's been a small glimmer of light um these talks that took place last week in Switzerland uh allowed uh International diplomats led by the US to achieve some AG to achieve some agreement with the authorities on both side for greater access along a couple of routes into Sudan one of the big challenges as this famine has grown in recent months has been how to get food trucks into the country partly that's been because of the war because it's just been difficult to cross front lines where active fighting's been taking place but it's also because both of the Waring sides have in the words of many foreign officials used starvation as a weapon of War they've blocked access they've closed border routes they've imposed bureaucratic restrictions that stop trucks getting to those people who so do who so desperately need it so the small achieve the achievement that's been made recently is for the main border crossing with adre will now be open I'm sorry the main border crossing with Chad uh which is one of the main routes into Western Sudan uh that is now open to UN trucks um and there is at least a tentative agreement for a greater flow of trucks to a camp called zamzam in jur which is um really the epicenter of the famine right now it's the part of Sudan where a famine has already been officially classified yeah I have to say de when I'm reading about trying to get famine officially classified as actually something that's happening uh it's such a new it's such a modern approach to this uh our ancestors didn't have people poking around Ireland trying to decide if enough people were starving to death to call it a famine uh people knew that starving is a is a famine uh but you're so much about this is so difficult in including just getting in there I was I've read your account in the New York Times of how you managed to get into the country which was not at all guaranteed very difficult thing to do it helped very much you think that you had Irish passports your photographer had an Irish passport maybe an American passport would have been more of a hindrance at that point getting in there for the New York Times but it seems like uh both sides of this war don't want the world to know what's happening there no it's been for much of this war it's been going on now for 16 months and for at least the first year of the war very few reporters managed to even get inside Sudan uh which seemed astonishing given the scale of what's going on and you talked about it a moment ago the sheer size of the country but now that Geographic size has been matched by the scale of the suffering of the impact on civilians uh by by almost all measures it is the greatest humanitarian uh C catastrophe on Earth um we were able to get into Sudan with the photographer Ivor pricket uh you're seeing some of those images on screen um back in back in April uh we landed in the capital Port Sudan and we drove across the country to cartoom the capital city where where the fighting started and when we reached there we really got a sense of the utter Devastation of this city once um one of the most populous in Africa uh you know in many respects quite sophisticated uh with its own uh middle class and wealth uh all of that really just gone the entire city divided half of its population fled the Nile forms a front line between the Waring sides um and in the areas where the fighting has been more intense um utter Devastation that reminded me of um earlier conflicts have covered places like Aleppo in Syria and so on Dean I I have to tell you uh I do not use the word hero lightly but your work uh not just in sedan but in the past is is truly heroic and without you and without your reporting uh we would know so much less about what is happening in this worst humanitarian crisis in the world New York Times Chief Africa correspondent tickin Walsh thank you very very much for joining us tonight thank you Lawrence it's pleasure and after this break we will end on a lighter note tonight with what for me me will be an emotional look back at work I began doing 25 years ago in the summer of 1999 writing for a TV drama that would premere that September under the title The westwing and go on to sweep the emys in its first year two of the cast members that made that such a fun place to work have written a new book about the show and will join us next [Music] oh the music gets me every time 25 years ago in September of 1999 NBC premiered a new drama titled the westwing as one of the writers working on the show I was worried the audience might think it was about airplanes the words the westwing had no meaning outside of Washington at that time but television's first drama set in the White House was an instant hit in Midtown Manhattan 25 years later the py center for media is now celebrating the show's Premiere and its 25th anniversary with a wonderful exhibit that runs through September 8th the collection of scripts on display includes one that I wrote for the final season of the show in 2006 and the Emmy winning script from season 1 co-written by Aaron sorin and Rick Cleveland is on display there you can get your picture taken at the very same Podium Emmy winner and now Oscar winner Allison Janney used when she was playing White House Press Secretary and you can study a model of the set we built on a sound stage at Warner Brothers and Burbank and you can listen to Snuffy Walden explain how he composed the Emmy winning theme music to the westwing which grabbed our hearts the first time we heard it and never let go and there is a new book telling the detailed inside stories of how the show was done including many that I did not know the book is titled What's Next its authors are westwing cast members Melissa Fitzgerald and Mary McCormack Mary McCormack and the star of the show Martin Sheen who played the president appeared on Jen saki's Sunday Morning Show recently and Jen saki's perfect introduction of the segment created the most moving moment about the show that all of us who worked on it have felt since the we shot that final scene in the spring of 2006 okay The Story Goes Like This the historically successful but aging Democratic president prepares to step aside from public life and throws his support behind a young impressive diverse inspiring successor to carry his mantle forward and no I am not talking about Joe Biden and KL Harris Democrats it is an honor to introduce to you the man at the all this extraordinary achievement for ordinary Americans our president our commander still the leader of our Democratic party president Josiah Bart [Music] [Applause] [Music] thank you it's been an honor to serve you for the past eight [Music] [Applause] [Music] years and now it gives me a great pleasure to introduce to you the leaders of our party and the next president and vice president of these United States Matthew vente Santos and Leo Thomas M [Music] joining us now is actor Martin Shane also known as President Jed Bartlett and mayor McCormack also known as Deputy National Security adviser Kate Harper and Kate is the co-author of the new book I have it here what's next a backstage pass to the westwing it's casting crew and it's enduring Legacy of servage was it's coming out at such a perfect time everybody needs hope and a reminder we were all watching that and getting a little emotional I've never seen it you never seen that before I've never seen that before and people have asked me about it and John Spencer still lives here in our family and that and I think that was his last scene if I'm not mistaken the last time he appeared on camera and I have never seen that scene ever until this just this moment and it it was just overwhelming we were talking about him last night and we were we were we were equally sad and and and happy and joyful to to have worked with him to have known him and joining our discussion Now westwing cast members Melissa Fitzgerald and Mary McCormack they're the co-authors of the new book what's next a backstage past to the West Wing it's cast and crew and its enduring Legacy of service uh Mary let's go to that moment with Jen saki uh because I think a lot of people in the audience might not realize this but it's it is as it's a very common thing among actors to not watch their work there are plenty of actors I know who just never watch it and so but we don't know I didn't know that that was the first time uh Martin was seeing that and John Spencer died in the last season of the show we had to write that into the show we stopped to the show in order to change everything because of it and so uh it's one of those moments that we we did deal with at that time but as Martin said still lives with us yeah that was so moving just got me again watching it again um I didn't know Martin had never seen that and I didn't know that clip was going to be played so it was really um yeah it took him by surprise and and then his emotion took me by surprise and uh it was yeah I mean they were like our parents they were the dad and Dad of the set you know and they were so close you know I mean Lawrence they were so close and I think um we all felt John's loss but I think no one more than you yeah and and they're Brothers they were like brothers we could spend this entire segment talking about John Spencer and that just might be the fair thing to do uh Melissa he really was I've said it just a Rolls-Royce of an actor I mean even at the read through when you're sitting in a chair just reading a script heads down doing nothing you could feel it all from John Spencer it was all there in his first reading of those words he was just an exceptional extraordinary actor and he lived for it it was in his his bones it was everything about him was about acting and you know uh John Levy the casting director said in his audition if not for the photo of his child in the background they could have aired uh his audition for the westwing um and he was also just such a supportive generous actor to get to work with him was a real gift and Martin as well of course uh Mary the book is filled with stories I don't know filled with stories that I do know uh and it's just a it's such a gift all of us who work there it's as if you created a yearbook for us and told us the stories we didn't know and I know there are fans of the show out there who are just going to love so much of this detail what did you discover some of the things you discovered that you didn't know oh my God so many things I mean I there's so many things in fact Martin called us last week when he read it well I guess it was a few weeks ago now and he read Ito many things I didn't know and and actually Lawrence you saying that sort of is ringing true for for all our reactions we're getting from all the cast which is so nice I mean it it it's too much to cover in fact we could write another book because there's people we didn't get to interview and there's episodes that we love that we didn't get to break down or I mean there's so many things unfortunately but it is a thick book it's like you know how many pages a thousand yeah almost 600 it it is the definitive of like juicy West Wing it's it's for the wing nuts out there uh and Melissa you were there from the start you with us all the way uh you saw the show grow change evolve over time uh and the toward the end of the show when we brought in Alan Alda and Jimmy Smiths who were just a a stunning addition to this I remember having the writing assignment John John Wells saying to me is there any way you can get all three of them in a room together and I I came up with that uh in an episode uh they got them in the Oval Office together uh it it was it was one of those jobs where day in day out as difficult as it was I think I knew every minute that I was there that this was a peak moment every every year every day this was a peak work moment for us 100% And you know Martin have told this story actually in in the book but Martin and I were driving to the Institute of Peace in San Diego and you know we were talking about the West Wing of course and he said you know people who went to college say that college years were the best years of their lives they just wish they had appreciated it then at the time and he said westwing those were the best years of our lives but we did appreciate it and I think that's true we all knew just how fortunate we were you know to work on Aaron scripts to work with this family that really developed and that we're still so lucky to be so incredibly close um and obviously Martin and John as the parents really helped nurture that yeah I've always said that about it imagine going to a high school you loved or a college you loved uh that's that's what this is like and that's what looking back on it is like thank you very much for this book Melissa Fitzgerald Mary McCormack thank you very much for joining us tonight really appreciate it the book is what's next a backstage pass to the westwing its cast and crew and its Legacy of enduring service filled with stories I didn't know thank you both thanks Lawrence thank you Lawrence we'll be right back what's next is tonight's last word