Ben Ainslie Takes Us Inside One of Sport’s Greatest Ever Turnarounds

[Music] I think everybody that was involved with the team looks back on it with some amazement as to how the hell did we pull that off suddenly it just took off I mean the interest was insane that's what was I think one of the most impressive aspects of turning that campaign around did you worry that you could deliver all of that effort to get back to equal terms don't blow it now I'll that if you were to do it with a British outfit and it was you know under your watch what what difference does that make Ben we know that come the end of the summer when you're contesting that cup should you win it it'll be the most incredible moment for British sailing the most incredible moment for you personally and collectively for for this team and so that will lead to it becoming talked of as as a unique moment in time for you if you look back what is a moment in time that you would consider could rival anything like that well firstly I got to say we're not getting ahead of ourselves here so it's nice to have that goal that Target and believe you me we're working on that but long way to go but yeah looking back something similar certainly for me being involved with a winning team in the Americas Cup 2013 with Oracle Team USA in San Francisco that amazing finals against Emer Team New Zealand being 81 down and coming back to Win It 98 that was some amazing time can we put that into context because it was the most remarkable event um for all manner of reasons and lots of twists and turns along the way lots of different storylines playing out but you how did you go into that cup competition I I mean we' only just started dating um when you when you when you embarked on that particular adventure and I recall it being not the happiest of times it was a really tricky time I think everybody that was involved with the team looks back on it and with some amazement as the how the hell did we pull that off I mean I was only involved with the scene for the final 12 months of the campaign a lot of gone on before for those that remember there was a DEA gift challenge against lingi with the Chim Moran and the and the Big M big catamaran and Oracle had obviously come out on top of that with you know a number of in incredible sort of in Innovative approaches to that style of boat and and the massive Wing sale that ultimately was one of the big big performance differentiators in that cup and had come out of that and then develop developed the multi hold aspect of of the cup and then eventually the foiling aspect of the cup but that happened all quite late in the program and in the buildup to that there were a number of setbacks the boat was written off under the quite famously under the S golden gay bridge and Pitch pull the boat just absolutely destroyed it got taken out to sea with the tide strong Tides you have in San Francisco Bay the first foil that was a foiling generation to to to lift the boat up out of the water I think within about five minutes of sailing that that they snaap the the vertical section off that uh sorry the horizontal section off that and boat didn't measure properly a whole number of of massive setbacks and that really I think you know sets a scene for for the raceing itself as Defender we were obviously in the finals probably you know there's an argument to say we we I think probably actually when you look at when you look at the other Challengers you know we would have made the the the final of the Challenger Series but whether or not we we would have beaten a he quite probably not you know in terms of making the the Cup itself so fortunate that we were in the final and had the time and the resource and the experience the where with all to realize just how back on the back foot we were and do something about it and you know that realization of you know we've got to do something here and how are we going to how we going to tackle this that that's what was I think one of the the most impressive aspects of turning that campaign around which was yeah I think most people within that team would agree up until then it it had it had been a pretty challenging campaign a number of setbacks and going into competition on the back foot yeah also you weren't supposed to be on the boat so how did it come about that you ended up on the boat how did I end up on the boat well yeah that's an interesting question I mean the the team had had as we talked about the team had had had tough runup number of setbacks they also being somewhat of a scandal with the measurement of the 45 foot Class which was a class of boat used for some of the world series events in the buildup to the cup that meant that a couple of the key Sailors effectively couldn't race in in that cup so the sailing crew was was somewhat fragmented and then the performance of the boat wasn't really matching the Kiwi so really on the back foot and I think from a management perspective just looking to make some changes somehow to bring some positivity to the thing as well as of course and much more importantly the focus on the technical side of the campaign how to what modifications to the boat what changes in setup to the boat and then as sailors what to work on technique wise to really you know get Optimum performance from the boat so yeah that that's ultimately how I ended up getting getting on on board the boat was just trying to I think brings some positivity when did that call came when did that call come from the powers that be that said we're going to switch things up we're GNA sub you in for this guy and this is how we want to do it moving forward I mean I I recall it was something must have been it must have been like at 61 down or something it was something around that number that that call came in I think I think for memory we were the kiwis were on four wins and we were on minus one win we' started on minus two wins because of this issue this measurement issue with the 45 Footers and yeah I remember being on on the primary chase boat with Russell Grant Sim uh few others and and Russell's phone going and this is Russell Coots Russell Co yeah it's pretty pretty clear he's talking to Larry and they were Ellison Larry Ellison and they were having uh it wasn't I mean I'm not sure what what Larry's tone was like but certainly it was a serious conversation and uh I remember Russell put the phone down and he looked at me and he just sort of he he has this sort of look that he can sometimes make and just shook his head and I could tell then that something was was going on but you know he had to he had to obviously make some PR tough decisions and when it came to the sailing team he also needed to speak to Jimmy spit Hill who was the skipper and leader of the sailing team to you know get his his buying and make that decision together and then ultimately John costaki who who was a tactician you know super hugely experienced multiple you know Olympics America's Cup successes was was you know that was the the switch that that was made and you know I never never forget John's you know response to it was one of the most impressive things I I think I've seen in in my career in my sporting career just must have been you know really tough moment for him but the way he responded and you know we chatted and it was all about you know what he could do to help me get up to speed for the next day which was again super impressive yeah so just to put that in context as well because you you weren't the tactician that wasn't your role on the bbo either so you suddenly had to step into the shoes of being attached and you had to learn how to make the equipment work that would guide you and make the key decisions along the race course right in about 16 hours probably tells you just how desperate the situation was given that I'd never had been a tacti on any boat let alone in America's Cup foiling 75 foot multi hole so Ben and I have made a sleep supplement and it's called night powder it comes like this in a pouch with a scoop or like that in a sachche box and always with a shaker cup and also with some free travel sachet as well seven of those are included if you're struggling with your sleep or you really just don't want the groggy mornings from a sleep supplement then come and find us at anley angle.com just put an introductory 20 at checkout and get 20% off your first order hello performance people listeners my name is Freddy Carr and I host a podcast called the inside Tech which is a podcast that follows the British America's Cup team inos brann as we get ready for the 37th America's Cup down here in Barcelona we also follow the youth and the first ever women's Americas cup we would love you to like And subscribe to our podcast follow us on all your social media channels as we get ready for our sporting challenge of a lifetime yeah it was quite some step up well what was that feeling like you must have felt must have been a sort of really complex feeling of of exhilarated to get the opportunity to try and make some change but at the same time did you worry that you could deliver yeah for sure I had some had some doubts I hadn't seen these the Tactical software that John had been using you know had just iPad effectively in his life jacket that had all the delay lines and the different time to kill for the start line the different options that you could take around the course so I really I had you know some inkling of how it had developed but I I certainly hadn't used it in anger and mixed your emotions really because you anyone involved with a team of course you want to just help and do what you can to help particularly if the chips are down and and and the team's on the back foot you want to try and contribute but at the same time don't want to go in there and make a mess of it make things worse and yeah there was definitely a chance of that and but it was you know it was a no-brainer for me it was you know well get in there and and like I said as much as trying to do a good job with the Tactical calls and working with Jimmy and Tom slingsby in particular at the back end of the boat was also really in terms of the team Psychology was just about trying to bring some energy and positivity to the thing because understandably you know people's heads were dropping because the performance wasn't there yeah and how big a factor is that in Cup World especially when you are in a catastrophic position of of 81 down you think about those characters I mean Tom slingsby is now going to be helming the American boat you've got Jimmy spithill who's also on the Prada boat two like Fierce Rivals of yours in sale GP as well but in that moment you had to Galvanize how did you gel those personalities how did they because you've all got quite strong ideas is about how you want to do things it was interesting it was just I total luck to be honest that it worked we're all you fiercely competitive but all in in subtle ways quite different personalities and Jimmy Jimmy for all his bravado and and and he's absolutely amazing at it you know the the the the chat in the press conferences and and and the like and in front of the camera he's brilliant but actually you get him on the boat or you know in a smaller group and he he he he's you know he's not the guy that has to have the say all the time and has to be you know dominating the conversation and certainly in a helming role very very good at at working with a tactician and and and listening to that and and giving the other people on the boat the chance to to make decisions and and have the conversation and Tom again you know a lot of mutual respect coming from an Olympic background and we just sort of naturally seem to Jael in terms of figuring out who was going to look at what factors on the course the win the performance of the boat the opposition and then making some of those decisions really collectively and so yeah it it was astonishing that it worked I mean really when you look at it on paper it shouldn't have worked and that's one of the most one of the amazing things about that whole cup cycle and one of the amazing things about sport because it is that unpredictable nature of it couple of key things that I remember got said over the airwaves during that time which were just Great Moments one of which was you saying to Jimmy just sailed a boat because there was obviously like a little a little moment there and then the other one was when Jimmy stood up in that press conference and I think it was Dean Barker who was his his um you know the the opposite number at that time and and said to the journalist can you just imagine what happens from here if they lose talking about pressure what about the psychology of that the psychology of turning a from the jaws of defeat a thing into Victory and how you how you play on the minds of the opposition in that way as you get closer and closer to your end goal well it was a great it was a great example of of sports psychology wasn't it really uh I mean we talked about the the afteru on Oracle how that shouldn't have really worked and yeah maybe that was that was an example of an area where probably in hindsight you know I could have been slightly slightly easier on on Jimmy because ultimately he he and Tom were just talking about some of the Maneuvers they were they were pulling off and and the the choreography of that which was actually a great thing to do in terms of the performance of the boat and I was a bit more head into well let's just focus on getting around the course and trying to win this race so but those are you know those are the nuances of of competition but yeah all all things said you know was incredible that we were able to pull it together and the psychology of you know what's said and people's emotions and how they hold themselves in in press conference I mean that was one of the most impressive things from Jimmy really that whole cycle was back as much as the team was on the back foot he kept turning up day after day keeping positive you know batting off the inevitable really tough questions about the poor performance of the team and then that was just what a cracking line you know imagine if they lost from here and you could just see Dean Barker on the other side just you know he you know to be fair he did a pretty good job of holding himself as well but you know he definitely squirmed at that one and it was incredibly tough for the kiwis as they lost race after race after race and it just you know the tide was turning and you can see that can you see that in a as a competitor can you see it in your opposition when you realize that you you know is it is Shifting that you can can you sense it I mean you you talk of a story where they're waiting on the end of the dock and they drop one by one as the days go on yeah they used to wait for us on the dock and the Kiwi team used to wait for us on the dock as we it's some reason the timing always just seemed to work like that Towing out to the sort of holding pen where we go and then we do the pre-race press conference and and and media dock out show and they were they were sort of always there and I said to Jimmy oh let's just go a bit closer you know one day and and give them a wave and we sort of went and gave them a wave and they gave us two fingers back which is probably fair enough but yeah that that group got smaller and smaller until we got to the final when it takes all race and there was no one there and so those little things do make a difference and you know gets talked about a lot that momentum in certainly in sport but really in any Walk of Life it's huge isn't it you get get things going get a bit more confidence you know get more speed out of the boat more confident into decision making and and and and the whole thing just snowballs and then what to that last race so it was 88 Winner Takes all you know weeks of racing and delayed racing as well it just seemed to take forever to get to the the final day which weirdly coincidently was my birthday and I'd flown mom and dad over as well with with myself to watch you in it and so on that on that day September the 25th what did that what did that feel like to actually finally come good well I think most people when they look back at these moments you sort of you know it was a while ago now but it was still another race and I think that again talking about the momentum and that Siege mentality the team had ultimately got itself into a bit of Siege mentality because it was you've got to win another eight races and no one really believed that we could do it and I think if people were being honest a lot of people within our team didn't believe we could do it and I to say I certainly have my doubts I mean you never give up but you think this is going to be tough so you're still in that Siege mentality really that youve all of that effort to get back to equal terms don't blow it now after all of that and even with that race we had our issues you know in in this in the warm-up before the start we bust one of the control arms in the wing sail which we couldn't race like that so we had Jeff Cory who's actually here with us now with Vos pania he was up winched up the the the Mast and effectively super glued this this control arm back together and we just prayed that it would the glue would go off and it would hold in time and he literally stepped off the boat about 1 minute 30 2 minutes before the start of the race so we had no warm up we kind of duffed the start as a result so we we were behind the kiwis we then stuffed the boat fell off the foil stuffed it down the mine pretty hard doing about you know 40 42 knots and that moment every single person in the boat was just waiting for the bang and somehow it it held together and we got got after the kiwis got around AC C and by that stage we had we had particularly on the UPN legs we had quite a big speed Advantage so it was really just about keeping on the kiwi's hammer and we had a reasonable amount of confidence that we could outpace him up the the upwind work and that was how it played out and then it was about just delivering the boat to to the Finish Line yeah it was yeah and it was one of those moments you'll never forget because you know people talk about the sailing side of it but it was more about actually you the designers and the technicians and the engineers and the the boat Builders working 24-hour shifts to make the modifications to the boat that really allowed us to get that extra performance that made a difference and then of course you lifted the trophy which was which was magic somehow my dad found his way onto the stage slightly embarrassing is just what doing here God knows what will happen this time if if you actually managed to win this thing but when after that moment happened you took the boat back um with Larry Ellison and Russell Coots um to its home wherever wherever that may somewhere so that was the base um you were on that boat for a while chatting what what did you talk about what were what what did everyone say in those moments I mean there probably aren't many words but what were people saying it was it's mostly I think those moments it's relief isn't it really I think for us it was massive relief I talked about that Siege mentality we were a pretty multinational team we were Racing for each other and also for Pride I think at that point it was so bad and so huge amount of relief it's one of the most rewarding moments I've experienced in sport because of just where we were as a team and talked about how much not just the sailing team the whole team really came together that was so impressive and so felt a lot of pride in that I think we all did it was great to have Larry there he was I think he was just as amazed as the rest of us were managed to turn things around but I'm sure in his life and his business career he's seen just about everything and even he would have been pretty Amazed by it I know I know he was and and you know delighted for the team and delighted for the Americas cup that had gone from actually being a pretty boring contest up until that final suddenly it just took off I mean the interest was insane I guess yeah I guess it's the reason why we're here I mean is it the defining moment that sort of has paved the way for inos Britannia to to be here the relationships that have been established the team we have yeah absolutely I mean I start I started off ending up working with Oracle because I went to Russell asking you know I'd like to set up a British team get involved with this world series with an idea to getting involved with the America's Cup in the future and he said well yeah we actually wanted to talk to you about joining our team for the cup and so we we figured out this neat solution whereby I entered the team into the World Series and agreed to to join up with the Oracle team for the cup uh in final 12 months running and yeah on the back of that success in San Francisco I'd been struggling frankly to find people were interested in coming on board be that privately or commercially and all of a sudden the phone was off the hook in terms of people that saw that and thought wow these boats are amazing that sto sporting story is something else and Britain should be involved with the America's Cup and that that that really triggered things off for us now I know you don't want to predict the future don't I know you don't want to talk about what if can't do that but but but where would it rank I mean you know it's hard to eclipse 2013 but if you were to do it with a British outfit and it was you know under your watch what what difference does that make it doesn't really it doesn't really matter if it's under my watch but Britain winning America's Cup would be one of the defining moments in the Cup's history because of course it started around as we all know famously around the White in 1851 173 years ago never been oldest intern sporting trophy it's the only thing Britain has never won and we're obviously a hugely proud Maritime nation and so it would be huge for the history of the cup and I think for the event in general of course I I'm saying that because I'm biased I desperately want to win it for Britain and finally what's your message to the team because this will go out on the eve of the preliminary Riata so what would your message be to that group of people in that building my message to the team is never ever give up we've seen the history of the cup so much can change even in the final weeks days of the competition and it's the team that of course they got to have the package in the first place but it's the team that develops that the best and really steps up when it counts that we'll end up winning this and as a long long way to go brilliant thanks darling join us for the performance people podcast every week for the highs lows lessons and stories from people like this lot Michael Johnson some days what I would see is a person who was a shell of what I used to be Eddie Hearn we don't operate in a business that's dangerous but we just operate in one where you got sleep with one eye open mo Farah it couldn't get any harder than what I've gone through and at that point I just kind of just went for it PA of Radcliffe you can only control yourself Susie wolf and Toto did once liken me to a donkey every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts for [Music]