Can Jim Walmsley Defend His Title? (2024 UTMB Interview)

The Increasing Competitiveness of Western States Jim Walmsley it is an absolute pleasure to have you back on the single track podcast how are you doing today I'm doing good uh yeah it's evening right now and just kind of winding down right on well yeah you're about a month removed from an absolute dog fight at Western States this past June I I guess technically it was a a come from behind win in the in the sense that Rod sort of had you on the ropes at sometimes it was pretty back and forth I think Jared sort of tested you back in 2019 but it was different in the sense that he was never in sight and you know effectively most of your Western States wins have been time trials or you've kind of been operating on a different level from the rest of the field I know you can't take any day for granted but in retrospect were you planning or expecting to be pushed the way you were by the rest of the field um I thought the field for Western States was really competitive and I kind of wasn't sure what to expected everyone would choose to go out harder and I think it was a mix of uh everyone starting out playing it a little more risky wanting to take risks to win and uh that ends up like mixing it up a lot more um so I think it was one of the scenarios I saw I'm not sure like I predicted uh Rod being there so late like that was a bit surpris bit surprising but also I think he was coming in super hot from Canyon and it's kind of showing the form that he's on this year so uh I think he was just kind of rolling really well and kept that momentum going that he's been having this year this could just be an observation from a fan like I'm not in the trenches like you are or other athletes of your caliber are but it seems to me that more athletes are preparing as deeply as you have historically prepared for races like western states are taking it just as seriously from like a logistic standpoint nailing Aid stations Etc um Once Upon a Time you know maybe you had more intensity you had more focus in this respect but it doesn't seem like you have that particular Advantage anymore um first I'd love to get your thoughts on it like does does it feel like a whole new ball game in recent years from a preparation standpoint like the field is more equal I I think there's more exper experience going on like I think there's more athletes committing to ultra than when I first got in I I think when I first got in it was a bit of a new wave it was kind of uh I guess in some ways like Rob K started struggling with some injuries and he was kind of dominating for two three years and there wasn't really someone that stepped directly into his place and I would say um there were a few years of people in the sport maybe learning Ultra for a bit before like people got um more dialed in on how to run hun MERS and and really focusing in on that so I would say perhaps it was just a interesting time to enter um I I think you look at Rob Hal Tim uh Scott jerck like they were taking it just as serious for sure so I mean I don't think that's necessarily revolutionary or change um but the number of people probably taking it that serious and in being that committed um and just talented enough and dedicated and putting in everything um there's definitely a bigger depth now uh so you don't know if it's going to be you and a couple guys or you and 10 20 guys so um yeah I mean we we had at least 15 through the first 10 15 miles at western states that you you kind of look back and see a lot of people behind you or in front of you uh and you're just kind of in a training line um going through I guess that's is it red star Ridge or lion Ridge one of whichever one's first uh I mean everybody was going through and that was one of the first things of just trying to get a couple seconds on everyone because I knew I was doing a little bit of a water fill up um and I was going to lose some time so um but that was actually the one I think it was 200 yeah when one of the years one of the early years of running Western States was uh I think I miscounted how many many calories I had and I needed to go get more calories at the first aid station so it like kind of developed into a bit of an attack and then all of a sudden I was just going and uh afterwards kind of racing from there but um yeah it it's kind of funny how we think sometimes the sports developing and this and that but smaller footsteps forward than probably what we see just in the moment I do remember and I we had Dylan Bowman in Studio during Western States week and he remarked that you know when he was finishing 3rd 5ifth 7th in that like 2012 the 2014 era like topical cooling wasn't even a consideration so maybe and again I I I the first year of using like the terminology topical cooling I think it was uh you guys pointing that after my interview you started asking people um those questions and uh I think I would have to ask for a definition of topical Cooling in general well I've also just having checked out uh Tom Evans new podcast there ultrasound he's been saying that he's not even sure topical cooling is the solution everything he's doing is based on like Core Body temp and stuff and like inhaling ice and whatnot to get his stomach to shave off a few degrees so um Beyond defining topical cooling I think I'm not even sure whether it's internal external we have to be focusing on um but I watched your postra irunfar interview after Western States and one of the things that you mentioned there that uh sort of perked my interest was that you stuck with the same system this year sort of across the board as years passed and then you also said there might be ways that you would adjust that you know if you ever came back like you'd carry gear and nutrition more efficiently can you share some ways you're thinking about uh changing things up for future Western States yeah I think uh it's pretty obvious I need to clean up my Aid stations comparatively I'm just like I lost a bunch of times to Jared in 2019 but um yeah that was kind of one guy and didn't see him all day it was just kind of the scaredness of knowing so like everyone giving you splits that someone's not far behind you but I never saw them whereas this here like definitely was going into Aid stations before rod and then leaving 2 3 minutes behind and then having to make that time up and luckily having the legs to be able to kind of eat back chunks of time like that but at the same time that that's not going to happen every time and the giveaway free time is uh not so um not not the smartest strategy so you're not making any fundamental changes like pack versus belt or shoes it's it's really a question of like spending less time in the chair at well I think whatever Last Chance the bandana needs to get reinvented everything like essentially how you carry ice needs to be streamlined and um made fast uh and outside of that um you can make everything pretty quick I had the problems with my feet all day and having to switch socks and shoes of uh yeah that that just was kind of an early problem and something I had to deal with at a station so um yeah kind of ate a lot of time changing shoes at several a stations I've heard you say and maybe this actually plays into being able to recoup any losses at a transitions but I've heard you say recently that mentally you're experiencing one of your finest Seasons to date and I'd love to hear you talk more about this especially you know given that you're in your mid-30s now whether it's like it's like it's a timely benefit in the sense that maybe you don't have like the same physical resources you want did maybe you're not going as hard in workouts or ripping certain segments in Flag Staff with sort of the same Reckless abandon so um talk more about that if you don't mind yeah I think um in general I'm a lot more patient I don't mind the pace slowing down I don't mind I I kind of know whether someone takes a The Importance of Mental Strength in Racing couple minutes at an addition that well if they're not continuing to maintain or keep putting on time then all of a sudden we have to multiply that by 20 30 40 miles and all of a sudden it's like well okay it can come back and all of a sudden they make a mistake and there goes a minute um a lot of stuff does happen and it's all about kind of the sum game not really uh just the Plus and minuses in the moment um you got to look at where you're gaining time as well and kind of keeping track of that and just knowing that throughout the whole race you got to end up positive so um there's a lot more patience with that there's I mean especially as you go from western states to other Ultras where there's a lot more hiking and and stuff I think I'm way more patient and uh forward movement is positive movement mentality that that's still how you get Ultras done and still how you win Ultras as well um where I think in the past I was just rushed to get going rush to start running fast to feel fast to be running fast and essentially uh sometimes that makes you pretty tired I I realized that I probably shouldn't make any assumptions do you still see yourself as being in your physical prime yeah I think um I can do anything I've done in the past and if not like better and keep improving on it and like not to mention just uh right now with the current athletes and athletes winning it it feels like everyone's my age are older um in a lot of ways like uh people in their 30s I think are really doing well right now um so I it doesn't make me feel old at all or like any way like that I think um you just see KY and J winning and in the fashion that he did like probably one of his hardest hardest earned wins out of the 10 he has but uh at the same time it's still the end result still a fast time and um yeah I guess uh there's people like that to look forward and look up to if you believe the gap on some of those miles uh he should give Allan web a call because uh he could probably run a pretty fast mile there were some like three allegedly some 348 gaps three it was insane yeah I don't think algorithm's quite right on great adjusted Pace but um the uphill as Sears Now is really special it's just such good footing um it really lets you just go full gas and like there's not rocks or anything getting in your way it's it's grippy it's it's usually I think it's pretty cool start or actually it's pretty warm start in Sierra they're pretty low but um yeah yeah I I don't know I I think um yeah it's just a good gradient good fooing um so there's not having to worry about footwork so much with it too I I think different uphills like the grad like the percentage could be the same and the and stuff but they don't all run the same and there's no way to really account for that would you ever do in the next couple years a dedicated Golden Trail series season it's crossed my mind it's something that especially Europeans bring out to go focus on Golden Trail and do some shorter stuff um I mean it feels like it's a young Trail Runner Sport more so uh I think I could compete with it but uh it's not quite as exciting um whereas if I focus on Ultra I feel like I can become more dominant in this and kind of put more big wins on like overall career rather than just getting distracted with a goal of like so what you did Golden Trail like I would say in trail running is just not as prestigious and part of that how it works of the rotating races there's not history in it they're trying to figure out how to film it produce it present it to like an organizing body and do this so it's Considering the Golden Trail Series kind of finding its identity and then I would say also then you have to look at the zigas the mount Blanc 42k the SI and Al and those are more the traditional ones um because Solomon's always gone to those races with a bunch of organization following Killian because those are the races he wants to do so with their long commitment they've created a lot of history with that um the last 10 15 years but I mean SS now I think is well over 50 years old so the mental aspect has been a big difference maker in recent years I know you know back in like the late 2010s early 2020s in those sort of middle years at UTMB you were commenting on like vulnerabilities and like longer Mountain races colder conditions because running comes more naturally too but maybe the the Steep stuff becoming one with the polls doesn't are there other ways that you want to continue to grow in the sport and just become like a more well-rounded athlete or is it still focused on like the minutia of the UTMB course in that environment I think it'll be well kind of leaning in could be the minutia that of this environment but um still learning how to do harder Ultras longer Ultras um I think that will make me better at 100 mile distance too and more versal um I mean then there's even Western States and other 100 MERS where when you look at the times and stuff like they're fast um it it's it's not slow per se so whereas UTMB there there is walking there's a lot of strength to it and um but then as you go further and further um you kind of learn how to keep persevering longer and this mentality to end uh kind of takes over you mentioned Hard Rock earlier and at least one of my observations was that it was um I don't want to use that word it was like the old person Olympics it was just amazing to see like at least on the men's side for example Ludo uh not only take care of business but set a course record uh Jason schlarb uh sort of uh have a Renaissance there and get on the podium it just it was just amazing and so when you see people like that when you see people like France while they're still at the Forefront of the sport in their late 30s with Ludo late 40s uh does it change timelines or shift your perspective on how long you can be at the top of the sport for yeah well when I talk when you compare to Ludo all of a sudden it's like whoa uh you really want to do UTMB Hard Rock sort of races for another 15 years and um I think Adjusting Strategies for Future Races that's kind of hard to grasp so I'm not sure probably like to do it more for fun uh before 15 years but we'll see um depends kind of how body holds up how life changes and stuff but um yeah guys like Jason and Ludo uh definitely um give you hope to keep keep competing and I I think it again goes to show the part of trail running that's endurance focused and strength based that's more technical vertical mountain Ultras um or perhaps really hard conditions whether it be really hot and vertical and or just really technical something that just makes it slower and strength based I think um age is less of a number uh in that sort of game of the sport and I think that's where essentially the younger you can master that the longer you kind of this Niche for yourself to protect that zone and I guess that's where kind of I see myself really trying to just focus of like well if I can compete again like bring in the younger aspect into this strength endurance side of the sport all of a sudden you could be 5 10 plus years kind of dominating that zone and I would say to protect like being on top of that is more realistic than what well Killian folded off but protecting being on top of this the Golden Trail sort of series I think it's pretty difficult um just a lot of speed in that um but they do a good job with pulling in unique and Technical cources whereas if then you you say like well how many years can you be on top of way people it's kind of like well how many years can you be the top marathoner in the states like uh it doesn't last forever unless you're Bernard lagot I'm he's not the top marathoner he he competed on the track pretty old like yeah you have Bernard lagot Nick Willis um that are old older on the track um but typically the track is kind of in the 20s um most 5K world records are set by people about 21 years old where kind of V2 max stps out um and then yeah I mean even yakob Bing Brit's on top of the 1500 and he still gets uh like he ran 326 this year and uh still misses the podium at the Olympics like it's it's a competitive world and T you got to be sharp and really on top of it so um yeah I I think it's just a a more manageable skill that creates a a longer career and path to to master kind of just the endurance strength I mean just healthwise and then talk about it venturing and exploring like truly I mean yeah now we're talking like walking and Hiking is really like how you with a pack and poles is really how you go further as a human and just like how far can you go and keep going and just all you got to do is refuel I mean it kind of Starts Now evolving into the fast hacking sort of world that I've always been interested in because a lot of people that come in from that direction come in with such different strengths and what I feel like I associated with growing up in the sport like this fast speed and I think um yeah trying to marriage the two of it uh you you become pretty pretty hard to beat when when you're fast and you're I guess clever enough to be strong and have that endurance to kind of start competing there just a just a few more questions before UTMB stuff I promise uh kind of the segue I know that you had the or it looks like you had the chance to do a little bit of Recon with Francois on the toris Jance course thinking about the takeaways from the experience was it more like this is cool terrain or was it more like maybe my timeline for doing this race one day has been significantly shortened uh the tour course was sweet The Challenges of the UTMB Course um so I kind of did the last third or last half with r um it's just a I would say a more entertaining more engaging Trail that's smaller um more technical uh typically it has less time flat in the valley before it starts just going up and down again um so I mean yeah and then I think even talking with fris like before kind of advertise it a little lowball on the vert as well um looking at it it's either 26 or 28,000 meters not 24 like they they say so I think the GPX that I have is 28 miles and about 84,000 ft of Earth um so it just absolutely clobbers the amount of vertical you're getting at UTMB um so yeah that that was um really interesting I think 208 miles 60 hour race at best uh it's really hard to comprehend um at this point I think that kind of goes to how other athletes have really stretched their elasticity like really well in this long endurance category and I think um that's really intriguing to me but also I I just don't know when or how uh to do it and who knows maybe it'll just be spur the moment jump in on the deep end see um one last question on sort of like the career theme I love the phrase you used a moment ago protecting the Zone um that can sort of stretch out your career make your career more elastic at least in a specific area of the sport um and we've actually we've talked about it in other interviews maybe two years ago we talked about it pre UTMB but there were so many comments earlier in your career that your time in the sport at least at an elite level it would be pretty shortlived because of your style your approach um you kind of went off the deep end in terms of speed but you've managed to strain together this amazing like eight to nine years of pretty consistent greatness do you attribute that to everything we kind of talked about in the first part of the combo here where it's like the mental strength adjusting to new realities did you make changes with longevity in mind or has it been luck like what do you attribute that to I mean I think ignorance is powerful for one so uh just not paying attention to like if if it will be the same next year or not I think you can't like plan to slow down you have to just kind of deal with it when you do start slowing down and adjust as necessary so um yeah I I think i' kind of said you got to cook when the pan is hot so if the Pan's hot you got to keep cooking on it um and kind of also when you get on a hot sprak like there's been times where you find a really good training block and then all of a sudden you know you're setting up like several races in a row that will as long as you kind of recover you can just tick tick tick a couple in a row and so that that kind of goes to setting up like off seasons and then uh kind of That Base building like just consistency boredom vanilla training day after day grinding away um it can really set up like the foundation or the next training block the next training block or or even like one training block with a little different than just the race in front of you and kind of starting to get ready for the block after that if you have something in mind um but I I think um I've slowed down comparatively to the first couple years I was in the sport as far as racing but I think that kind of comes with the pressure when I do line up and the a lot of pressure that I put on myself just I expect myself to perform at a high level I expect to compete for a win at an ultra and and yeah expect to to run fast so yeah it's not like you you want to go in how fast the races and um it yeah you just have to prepare for things and uh make sure that you know what you're getting into I feel like you at least from what I could tell like watching the early movies back in like 2016 it feels like even then you were putting you were holding yourself to a pretty high standard so it's interesting to hear you say that you put even more pressure on yourself now or I would say I put I've put a lot of pressure on myself since the beginning I I was saying comparatively to like outside pressure I I put a lot of pressure on myself um it's good in stressful not Keeping Training Private for Focus necessarily bad but sometimes stressful and uh yeah you kind of feel the balance of you need to take a step back and not take it so serious and relax and still enjoy some of the good times during during the whole process how much better do you think the whole sport is like your competitors in 2024 to where the field was in 2016 when you were lined up at races like westering I know we talked earlier about like okay maybe like gear was different training knowledge was different Etc but there was still the people right so uh do you think the Sport's a lot deeper now is it about the same like how do you how do you square all that I I'm not sure it's deeper as far as talent but I mean if you judge by the time which yeah I I mean this year's Western States was incredibly fast in a pretty hot year um it was a few degrees warmer than 2016 and I guess wor conditions were actually nearly similar to 2016 as well so it was pretty interesting um but I I would say a lot of people um myself included like we we blew up in the heat in some way or another so I mean the winning time was 130ish uh so like whereas this year you just didn't see as many blowups and then it's deep enough still that you have a really competitive front top pin um all pushing Fast Times historically so yeah I think it it also goes with the preparedness like how many in the top 10 I guess were debutants and take that at like mile at Robinson flat maybe of just uh top 10 uh first 100 MERS and um historically Western States has always played a role of introducing the fast Runners to 100 miles um and that's kind of one of its historically beautiful storylines is upand cominging fast guys marathoners getting their chance at now you get a race Ultra but oh by the way it's 100 degrees out and you got to keep up and like yeah it's pretty hot and it's not possible to run a 15 minute 5Ks throughout the day at Western State so um whereas now they've changed like basically every golden ticket race is at least 100K um they've pushed for that I think and culturally and on the board and stuff but I think I think I've heard that like way too cool 50k used to be a montal cup race like way back then and it used to bring most like some of the most exciting kind of wild horses into the race and storylines and um I mean people hated on lakes and Oma for a while just that oh and I I'm one of the people like I qualified in 2016 and um and then dnf or not dnf but yeah didn't go well um that people are qualifying on the 50 mile just can't handle 100 miles and this and that but it it's all the same athletes for the most part we're all committing to hours out there um and Approaching UTMB with Caution kind of slower volume based stuff and um so it's a matter of just kind of getting the rhythm of the 100 Mile right and not all 100 miles have the same Rhythm I got to ask you a fun question because you just reminded me we we do this little miniseries on the show called the long run archives and the latest one that we did one of the topics we debated was whether we should just kill the entire idea of an auto return top 10 to Western States and throw all 10 spots on the men's side including the winter and the women's side back into the golden ticket series and expand the field back into that like Montreal cup old day thing even though obviously top 10 Returns still existed back then too but like broaden the field and I'd love to get your take do you think do you like the idea of having to earn your way back into the race every year do you like securing spots for the year where do you stand on that I think the top 10 pretty important for Western State I think um when you look at Sports and Superstars like essentially people returning that people are familiar with is kind of what creates people to cheer for um so without people returning I think um some of the excitement really dies off and just to be able to follow the sport would become so complicated and um so revolving that it just wouldn't I I don't think it would work as well think sports that end up just growing growing growing typically they have Superstars that kind of stay in the sport and stay on top quite often and are quite relevant and I think that's kind of how the top 10 at Western States works of um it brings back familiar faces and kind of encourages that um if you have to race in every year that's it that's asking a bit much I think when all right this is year five and stuff like um moving on we talked after your win last year uh and it wasn't quite a foregone conclusion yet whether you'd be back like you indicated you were sort of shopping around considering all options I know even races like Ultra Trail Monta Roa were uh top of mind when did it become clear to you that you would for sure be back on the start line this year for UTMB I I mean it's been a goal since last year I think giving it a lot of thought is just that uh I don't know how many more wins at the top essentially I'll have and just I don't want to take it for granted that I have these opportunities so um it became a goal pretty like at the end of last year like just yeah nothing else felt equivalent so when you start considering like where to put your time and energy like UTMB is the biggest race so um I guess I'll have to rewind uh As Americans I think it's Considering the World Trail Championships worthy to put our time and energy into Western States and having this Championship American race as well and I think um it's incredibly worth our time to protect that as a a global competitive race that we represents like kind of our side of the sport as well H in years past when you felt good in that stretch between Western and UTMB I know you've talked about having that sort of carrot to push your limits in training and I think the trade-off there was like when things got tough on race at UTMB you maybe didn't have that freshness to you know have that like second wind do you feel like you took more recovery after Western this time around um yeah I guess is uh just I guess uh numerically datawise for sure um I had to take a lot more recovery in between these races of just every recovery after Ultras is unique and um yeah it hasn't been the smoothest transition so far so um yeah it's been a lot more recovery based a lot less training based in between and uh yeah there's still things to do between now and UTMB in two weeks to kind of figure it out talk about the when you say it wasn't a smth transition um what were some of the factors at play uh just like injury stuff from the race I would say um I've had some inflammation problems and having to deal with uh figuring out how to train or can I Trin or what can I do and this and that so just figuring out how to do what I can manage in between the two races and um and like just start working with the cards you dealt um yeah it's quick turnaround I think uh yeah it's been three years since I've tried to do the double and it's hard uh both doing both races back toback uh you got to hope that everything goes pretty smoothly and stuff um yeah it it throws a bunch of wrenches and just this like the last two years I've had a really long Focus buildup on UTMB and uh it's just kind of weird not to have that this year yeah it reminds me I've heard you say and maybe last year actually and and maybe you were talking about it as a function of sort of uh creating a better mindset going into UT I've heard you say that being a little scared going into this race is a good thing talk about that that's an interesting way to frame uh sort of your competitive mindset going into like the biggest race in our sport I I think um in a lot of ways when I have a bit more hesitation I tend to just run a bit more tactically and a bit more strategic and I think that just like anyone it puts you in a better position if you're making smarter more conservative The Longevity of a Successful Career decisions instead of uh being a bit more bullish and Brash and um trying to just muscle through like breaking other people throughout race and stuff and I think I've tried to do that inm's past and sure like we can get away for a bit but then like say in 2017 fris and I got away from killing and and like we we had him gapped and everything and running away and then all of a sudden Wheels fall off for me and uh not having this just smooth mentality to that the race is a lot longer it's not about breaking someone in the moment and then you see Ken still pretty much go stride for stride of like he lost 10 15 minutes behind France but then the last 30 40K he didn't he didn't lose any more time like they they went minute for minute all the way to the finish and I think that kind of goes to show like both of those guys had a lot more experience than than me in 2017 you've been straid dark since April uh mostly Strava dark uh in the leadup to this race even going back to last year I'm asking this totally from a position of curiosity not judgment either positive or negative um what's the rationale for keeping your work towards this race private um I think I've just likeed not being in the spotlight as much I think sometimes my training just uh gets too much chatter and talk and excitement and it I guess counter to that when I'm not logging my training it just uh feels like I get overlooked a lot and forgetting forgotten and so it feels like a bit less pressure like people can talk this and that but the rest is just kind of like guessing and we we'll just figure out like what happens on race day happens on race day and kind of let that speak for itself I know last year wasn't perfect you know there was that you know watching the race there was that 15 I think it was like a 15 minute swing sort of back and forth on the course with Zach after Cormier or Arnaz but then you ran that last 50k pretty amazing when you think about areas of improvement this time around is it is it simply about smoothing out your effort do you start the race more aggressively how are you thinking about that component or is it just racing tactically and sticking with whoever's in the lead um I I think I'm not thinking about as much like more and more these days I I don't think about the start of the race um it's more about just hanging in there um on your your nutrition plan and keeping an eye on what's Happening um being aware it it'll be interesting if someone takes a singer and like starts going pretty early pretty fast like that puts you in a bit of a situation essentially what I used to do a lot of like well do you go out or do you not and typically you probably go out probably with a little bit of caution but other than that like you just really need to pace yourself and take care of yourself because you'll have to see how they're doing uh 10 hours later um they still feel that to keep pushing whereas last year I think was a similar front back that we had the last few years and kind everything was shaking out very similar to the last few UTMB I've had and so I just knew like were coming and yeah gr grinkle for a just going down to loie continues to kind of be a a low moment for me that's easier to plan for CU I know it's coming I know I'm not going to feel good um whereas like I think and originally looking at the &b course it was uh always looking at The Descent you're like man you could just rip that but at the same time I think it's it's early morning the sun's not quite up yet stomach it's cold pass stomachs usually not doing as well so um last year there was a lot of just waiting waiting um it's not time to kind of go all all chips in yet so um that that kind of goes to just seeing what sort of adjustments you can make and then yeah I guess looking forward to the last 50k where it gets a bit steeper on the last three climbs um I think the race the skills for the last three climbs are a bit different um and you have to that's where like the strength is really G to come through so um yeah just kind of mentally preparing for a long day and reclimb at the end ofmb uh I think it'll kind of be something similar um just not trying to spend the money early save it for when you get back to France on the loop it's awesome to hear your mindset now in 2024 because I was before this interview I the YouTube algorithm served me up the I think it was the 2017 UTMB highlight video and one of my favorite scenes is from early on when I think you're like walking into ST jet and you just stop for a couple minutes and you're waiting for quite a while for Killian and maybe Francois and Zach the rest of leaders that come through do you ever just kind of laugh at just like the the change and strategy that happened you know between those that stretch of time yeah I I mean I definitely bring that up amongst friends of just how um it was my first time like really racing a big race in Europe uh against klian against Francois and and I just thought the intensity of the downhill was just going to be full gas and just I I was mentally ready for it I had splits for first 50k and then yeah I have splits for the first 50k and we'll just go oh we we'll things will start shaping out after that um or first 100K uh you have splits and and then you're just like well we'll deal with the last 50k when we get to it but it's kind of completely inverse now of just uh uh we'll figure out the first 100K and we'll we'll kind of deal with that but then we just know we got to wake up the last 60k um and and start racing uh from there on in uh whereas yeah I I completely ripped down the descent from uh Le to San which is one of the smaller climbs but really really steep on both ends and um definitely quad burner on The Descent and I actually even stopped and uh talked with Megan Hicks for a little bit she was on the The Descent further up and I was just like I don't I don't know where they went like I thought they were right behind me and then I get to Sandra and like I'm waiting for three more minutes and just and then it's also an example of kind of just not thinking and not experience and essentially like Killian comes in he just runs through the Aid Station and he's already got his headlight on and then I'm like oh I should have got my headlight out and so I take my B and just how disorganized I was like took my bag off reached in to grab my headlight put on my headlight and then had to catch up to him so like I actually lost time on that um after like probably having four or five minutes on The Descent um so we're recording this a little less than two weeks before race day I know last year uh I thought it was pretty cool even though you know as a member of the media I would have loved the chance to talk pre-race are you going to go sort of media dark in the week leading up are you going to kind of shut things off and ditch your phone and screens and just like be Zen about the days leading up or what's your what's your plan to handle sort of the hustle and bustle of Shaman yeah um well we we're renting the same place to had last year um so some things are pretty familiar and kind of how to get in down how to get out of town um least impactful um because there's definitely um like inter well not inter uh like events that I have to be at whether it's uh sort of thing that they just post them in the middle of shamon and there a bit of a a lot going on in town and everybody's Ultra Runners that are very excited to be there um like the elites are included in that too so um it's it's just a lot of energy for the sport um going on there that's pretty cool and unique but um it's nice to be tucked away from that uh the plan to just try to manage things um do a couple interviews before but uh try to keep it as lowkey as possible and then um yeah not a lot going on on the phone um and yeah we'll see but just playing low key um do what I need to and try to kick the feat up I know it's kind of stupid to look super far out in the future but I'm wondering if this could be your last UTMB for a bit because next year the world Trail Champs are going to be in the Pyrenees basically in the same like Corridor of time and I have to imagine that it's not something you would want to miss I could be wrong but uh do you are you approaching this utim be like there could be a two-year Hiatus because of the world Trail Champs um not treating it as such I think I'm just taking it uh this year um one year at a time um the world TR Champs is really intriguing next year I think there's month I think it's a month after I think they're both Finding Inspiration in Other Sports December but um so yeah it's really really quick turn around I think the US hasn't even announced which races to race in so it's it's quite unorganized on the American side so far and how to get in because I guess to race in would be kind of nice only because like I don't have to ask for a delegation spot like I did last time and then something popped up and changed my mind whereas if you race in like well you you earned it and um I then you can choose what to do with the spot but um yeah someone else wanted to race and they had to beat you on the day so that that's a bit interesting to me I'm I'm kind of waiting to see what they release because uh yeah you got to start planning I mean just winter training um and when you need to be ready if that's something that I'm going to consider uh so yeah that's a bit odd and then um as of now the plan probably to go back the western states in June so that's going to take out a training Block in in a race schedule and uh so we'll see um I I think both UTMB and the world Champs are going to be really intriguing races next year and um both will be worthwhile to focus on no matter which way last question for you to the extent that you were following the Summer Olympics this past month what was your favorite moment I mean the 1500 the men's 1500 was pretty crazy um or the uh American Gold recycling pretty sweet on the women's side but um in the finish line of the the marathon I think people were like oh how pretty is this Arch and stuff but then the finish line for cycling uh it had the Eiffel Tower perfectly framed up in the background that was pretty sweet um but uh the Cole Hawker getting the men's 1500 was pretty insane I was watching that one um so uh yeah I I ended up missing I think the 5K because uh I was in Italy and I could figure out what's how to stream it is that so um but in France I'm able to stream it so uh yeah that that one was a really big surprise and um even y finishing third and uh um h taking B A guy guy that trains in Black sta so pretty cool to see right on well Jim we appreciate your time wishing you the best of luck at UTMB later this month and uh yeah thanks again thanks as always yeah thanks so much and uh hope uh the next few weeks go smooth for you