Wink Martindale On Defending Patrick Mahomes, Michigan Football & Best Memories | GM Shuffle

[Music] you're listening to the GM Shuffle with Michael Lombardi presented by DraftKings and V sin here is FY AA welcome to another edition of the GM Shuffle with Michael Lombardi presented by DraftKings and Von I'm your host Fe beu as always make sure to subscribe rate and review wherever you get your podcast our producer Elliot Bowman with us on the ones and twos and it's a Monday as we continue Michael to have on cool people in the world of football that we like to talk to and nothing cooler than getting an active coach in the game and we have our buddy your buddy personally and maybe a new buddy of mine University of Michigan defensive coordinator Don wink marale joining us here on the GM Shuffle wink what's up man thanks for hopping on with us we really appreciate this oh thanks for having me thanks for having me how you all doing doing excellent we're doing great seeing you in your uniform last you know I love that I love when you had your picture taken at at norc airport in your uniform I mean I love it you know Steve Jobs has a uniform wink has a uniform I mean why not so let's talk let's talk about your journey here to Michigan how are you how are you adapting to it how do you like it and you know give us a little bit of a difference between what you see in the college game as it relates to what you see in the Pro game um I I tell you Mike it's it's been it's been a lot of fun to start off with but the the the hardest adjust adjustment for me has been you know being in the NFL for the last 20 years you have your routine of 20 years and then going back into the college you know you think you know but it's completely different as far as you know the spring balls just like another season uh Jesse told me when I was coming up here he said hey at Michigan every day Tuesday and at first I'm like what are you talking about you know and every day is Tuesday it's football 247 and it's it's if if you're a Football freak you love it and I mean these kids up here are unbelievable and even in their times's off their time off like you know we were gone obviously recruiting the whole month of May but like you're you know you're leaving the office and there's a group of 10 to 12 guys that are out down down there in the indoor in the Glick they're they're working out they're you know they're working on one-on ones they're working on technique and it's it's pretty cool and it's really good for the heart for the football purist to go out there and see the work that these guys put in so it it's a lot of fun yeah I mean you wonder why this team won a national title last year and was as dominant as they are because they got a lot of self starters in the program who put in a lot of the work here uh from a scheme standpoint I know a lot of fans are interested I'm sure you've been asked this question throughout the offseason Jesse Minter leaving to take the Chargers do become the defensive coordinator for Jim Harbaugh it's it's the same scheme that you guys were running I mean Minter was working for you on your defensive staff when you were in Baltimore do you tweak anything like how do you put your own spin on this to kind of make things fresh for these guys who obviously they know the scheme very well but maybe you kind of do things a little bit differently since you're not Jesse M you're win marale well I think that's just it you know and prior to that it was Mike McDonald Mike McDonald worked with us in Baltimore as well and um you know the system is the system it's very flexible it's very uh player friendly um you know when you get into the Sub sub stuff I say it's a positionist defense uh that has a lot of flexibility and once you understand the concepts it's easy to learn the defense um but it's also you know different personalities calling the defense and uh you know I I I think that uh at the college level there's a lot of more simulated pressures uh that you see when you're watching tape that that work just as effectively as sending them all so I I I think that uh you know it's going to be a wait and see once we get through fall camp and everything else but I let's make no mistake about it I'm I'm more aggressive than than probably both those guys sometimes to a fault Jesse did a fantastic job I mean I'm calling him you know now they change up some terminology because this is the first year we can do the coacht player uh communication so they changed up some of the names so it's just shorter one onew names which is smart and it helps you right into you know when when teams want to go fast and play you can just say one word but uh it's it all the you know the players the the vets that are coming back they know the system and uh it's it's it's been really enjoyable it's been a lot of fun I mean win talk about destroy this myth about you know everybody thinks it's zero Blitz all the time with the free safety out of the middle of the field which you and I both know was against the the Raider law uh that there was no way you could have a defense that didn't have the safety in the middle of the field base one and what Al Davis wanted but like everybody just thinks you run zero Blitz all the time because they see people coming from different places but in reality what would be the percentage of of your fourman pressures different looks fiveman and six-man well I I think that you know like you already alluded to Mike when you have free Runners the quarterback the the the average fan just says well he's he's zero pressuring and we don't we just attack protections well in reality uh you know I I think it changes from year to year depending on who you have playing for you and who you're playing against you know like the first year we played uh momes you know I think we hit him 18 times uh back in 18 and then he got so good at seeing pressures and where they were coming from and changing for sections the last year that we played him you know we just did anything that looked like a pressure was simulated because he there's no reason to Blitz it because he sees it and he throws it quick so I think it's not only by you know percentage wise of throughout the season but also per game per quarterback um so you know it's it's like depends on elaborate on that wink like talk about talk about playing somebody like momes where you know you know he's done his homework you know his prep is like and you know the confrontation that's going on between him and you cuz that's really the chess match right I mean like if you play Philly it's you and Kelce if you play Kansas City it's you and and and Mahomes or if you played New England it was you and Brady that mean you're playing against a guy and so talk a little bit about that how you approach that to me that was the most enjoyable thing about Sundays is who you were going you know who you were going against uh you know where like said before the first time we played Mahomes you know we hit him and and we were coming from all different directions and you know by the last time we played him I think we played him four times I didn't pressure him one time because it was there was no use of doing it so what you did then is look at if he doesn't get rid of the ball on time right away in a rhythm you know if he did that it was going to Kelce you know 85% of the time so what we did and attacking him is we went with our fourth rusher all right Ada DF o and tried to reroute Kelsey before he even got into the route and then add him to the rush because it didn't matter if you came free on a blitz Mahomes gonna make that Blitzer miss you know he's gonna it's not like he sees it and gets rid of it real quick he just knows where it's coming from knows how to get out of the situation and you know and I've heard you talk on the show thousand times about this too Mike it's it's not the first play it's the second play during that you know and when the ball snapped with him it becomes the third play because he you know right when you think you have him he drops a dime you know to Kelce or you know back then it was Tyreek or you know those guys so you know like you can come out of a game like when we finally did beat Kansas City I think we gave up 28 points maybe 34 maybe it was 35 34 I I don't remember the exact score but but I walked out of there feeling really good about how we played on defense because he just he you know we stopped him but you know the times that you stop him you got to take off with it from there well let's stay on that topic because I think momes obviously is like the the standard for the position of quarterback he does the second the third play he also is cerebral as well but as a defensive coordinator I think a lot of fans would be interested to kind of get inside the mind of what you guys are going through in the week of preparation like is it easier not maybe easier but like what's more challenging is it defending that cerebral pocket passer or is it the guy that can create the second play even though you might dial something up great but they just use their athleticism and all of a sudden now here we go with the second play like which one I guess is a little bit more challenging to get prepared for as a defensive coordinator I don't know FEI if there's a quarterback in today's game that is a pocket passer anymore you know I mean you had Mannings you had Brady you had those you had Drew Brees you had those guys that that could pick you apart because you know they knew you know by some guy's stance or you know some Flinch of a player you know where it was coming from and they could beat you that way I I think that you have to have the philosophy now through analytics and everything else of what let's let's get him playing to his weakness you know let's let's push Josh Allen to our right his left because his completion rate goes way down you know uh if if you're going to pressure like a Josh Allen I know I jumped off my homes there but if you're going to pressure a Josh Allen you better send big bodies at him because little DBS are just going to bounce off of him so those are the type of things that you look at game planning wise on what personnel you're going to get out there on third down um and why you're doing it to collapse a pocket you know you're playing Baker Mayfield you want to keep him and Mike's said this a million times too you want to keep him throwing from the well because because that well constricts on him and he has a hard time seeing um you know just those type of things uh that uh that are a great challenge every Sunday when you're going out there what's harder like I know after every game I would see you and when you played the Eagles when you're in New York or even Baltimore I see you and Kelsey having a conversation after the game what what's harder confusing momes Brady Manning or confusing the center because sometimes I don't think Center can see as much as the quarterback can well Kelsey's a different animal to me he's a first ballot Hall of Famer uh you know we've become friends over the years uh because he could see it and he he studies it he works at it as a center but you're absolutely right with most centers it's not that way you can you can move Late Show things late where they can't see it after they've made their checks but what's what what's the issue is is when you have a center that's good I'm not saying great like kelse but that's good at seeing some things and then you have a quarterback on top of it um you know it's it's harder to break the rules of their protections there's not that many that are that way though you know when you go to play them you know you can beat their protections and if you ask any offensive coordinator you know that's one thing that that we've always been good at is is breaking their protection rules and uh you know that's that's so that that's been a great Challenge and a lot of enjoyment in my career you know in the league yeah no I think that's really interesting it's almost like you're trying to find we talk about it off the time with offensive guys and Kyle shanan knowing defensive rules and those principles but just like those guys for defensive guys you have to know the offensive stuff and to go ahead and attack all those protections because that's how you ultimately get to the quarterback and and hopefully win games but we're just getting started here with Don wink marindale here on the GM Shuffle on the other side we'll ask about some advice for young defensive coordinators looking to reach the Pinnacle that he has and also maybe some of those days back in Oakland when he and Lombardi first met we'll discuss it next year on the GM sh you're listening to the GM Shuffle with Michael Lombardi presented by DraftKings and V sin here is FY AA all right we're rolling along here on the GM Shuffle here speaking with University of Michigan defensive coordinator Don wink Martell um I I'm curious because I do want to get to some of the challenges that young defensive coordinators face and you've been in that position before and guys who are in that position right now but where do you kind of get your creative inspiration from because I always Envision the coordinators like you're you're trying to come up with these different schemes and these exotic blitzes and all these exotic coverages where does that inspiration come from is it just through watching different stuff are you taking from different people how do you kind of come up with all these things that ultimately make up your system well I think that you know it's it's been the the years of experience and as Mike says trying to make them your expertise uh of different people that we've worked with um you know like Mike was huge in my career I first got into the NFL Mike was there in in Oakland with me I mean he he he taught me so many different things from the pro game you know looking through the lens of the pro game uh not college and and I mean I I wouldn't have been able to get where I was at without having Mike in my career and uh you know and then obviously with the great Al Davis uh for some reason he took a liking to me and and uh you know I I know you know through Mike he said if you have an opinion make sure you stick with that opinion because he's gonna try to get you off of it and then once he gets you off of it he's going to kill you you know those those are the two there there's two things that I know remember working for Al Davis was I watched enough people come up to him and say hey Mr Davis how you doing which is the definite no no of doing doing that you know because he said I'll tell you how I'm doing I haven't been you know and it it it was a lot more colorful than that so whenever I saw Mr Davis it would be Mr Davis and I just keep walking you know and the saying that you know Mike I've heard him say it on the show too is is don't go pet the tiger let let let the tiger call you but don't go pet the Tiger and uh you know that that was that was great advice but uh I've sat and I've been fortunate to be with Mike and talk about a lot of different players and you know I I think that putting a defensive system together um putting a you know a draft together whether it's free agency or not um you know that that uh you you have to always be willing to learn every day you walk into the office office because on to me once you stop learning anything you start dying and I'm trying to keep the old man away and I you know and there's there's things you know I got I here at Michigan there's three you know college defensive coordinators on our staff and if you don't think that I ask them questions every day you're crazy because they've been in it at at different levels all different places and uh you know I think it helps it it puts a different it's still the same scheme okay and I'll get to answer your question too F me about where it all originated from um it's still the same scheme but when you put different personalities in it and and you always look at it we instead of me and we all know there's a lot of coaches that are me me I I when you say we instead of me and you mean it and you you know I look at them as my peers you know that that that it's my job to get those guys ready to be a coordinator at a higher level and uh and you know you when you start looking at it as developing players and coaches I think that's when you're truly giv back to the game uh people of influence obviously you know I worked with Rex Ryan and John Harbaugh way back 1996 University of Cincinnati uh you know and and got to know buddy Brian really well um then you know when I you know went some different places I was you know I was studying all the you know the 46 defense all that stuff and then um as my career grew you know you start getting involved in different defenses as just a position coach and you know it's like I said you know when you I I went and interviewed with North Turner out at Oakland and going into the interview I didn't know if we were going to be 34 or 43 and on top of that I had the the the the suit guy in Bowling Green Kentucky had to give me a sport coat because I didn't have a sport coat back then to even go to the interview so I was a little nervous on that one like I said having somebody you know having somebody like Mike there really helped me out um but in 2018 or after the 17 season when when John Nami defensive coordinator in Baltimore so it's really John that that started getting the wheels going for for all of us in the room and you know he said I don't want to just be locked in on this front all the time how can we change our fronts so we have that conversation you know you can set the front eight different ways in this scheme and it you know makes it simple now do you use all eight during the season probably not but you have them in the package where you're flexible enough to do that and it's all the different fronts you know and and then you know same thing with pressures so that's what I was talking about earlier P me about once you understand the concepts you know how we go Four Strong how we go five strong you know all those different concepts that we have we're not making up names that they have to remember that week it's still the same call but we Chang the people you know we have we have cter mounts you know it's Five Guys someone's off the edge and you can move you know each guy can play a different spot you know and attacking it but it was it was really John that that that gave us the charge to do that and uh as you guys have said before John is a phenomenal coach that whole family obviously me coming up here to Michigan I worked for Jack in Western Kentucky um you know major influences uh one of the big influences with me was was uh skip Holtz and L Holtz you know I worked for for Coach Holtz in at Notre Dame for in 94 and 95 one of the finest game day coaches I've ever been around and I see the look in your eye Mike I know what you're gonna go to next no no I I we could spend all day on stories I mean I I I mean we could take lose Stories We we could take ow stories I mean you started the ow story and I I don't think all I tried to do is warn you when you came in you know you had that bright look and I just was trying to make sure that he didn't just squash you immediately cuz he loved he he's he's like a lion that loves to take care of the the little lions and make sure he's in charge but you know you know it's funny when we talk about that I think about I can remember sitting on an airplane with you we're flying back from the combine FEI and I think it was Thomas Howard right he ran this incredible 40 time in the at the combine you remember this wink and so you and I are sitting there and I'm saying wink you got two CH you got two choices here wink you if you like Thomas Howard he's going to play Devil's Advocate and he's going to tell you why Thomas Howard sucks and if you don't like Thomas Howard he's going to take the position he's got to sell you on Thomas Howard so you got to make a decision forget about what what you think of Thomas Howard that's irrelevant you got to make a decision on how the you want to approach this because if if you're right and if it's his idea where he's selling you on the guy then it's a lot easier than if you're trying to sell him on the guy and he's playing Devil's Advocate oh Donnie I don't think he can do that I don't see what you see I don't understand it you know I don't a I guess I'll see it all right okay and then we go on and on like that and then you know at the end of the day you're left with whoever you know it's your it's going to be your fault if it's bad and it's going to be his idea if it's good so I said to him I said just tell him what the you think you you know it ain't going to work any other way right do you remember that right I remember like it was yesterday you I don't know if you remember this like you said we can tell stories all day so my first my first go around the draft in Oakland one of the scouts put a kill tape on a guy that I liked so that's what I found out about the kill tape so any tape that I made FEI they were going to be highlight tapes now God Rest Thomas is soul fantastic person fantastic player for us had you know he he was phenomenal what he have like seven interceptions in two years at the linebacker position but I remember this it took me all four years to find like 32 highlight plays where you're like this is the guy but you saw it at the combine but it's one of those deals where you really fell in love at the combine because of how he interviewed U and and and what a great person he was and then how how well he ran where we knew just like you guys have said many of times on the show he's the perfect Raider fit we knew that we knew that one way or the other he was going to be a Raider I think I mean there were certain guys that we came back from the combine there were certain guys that you just knew were going to be on the team whether you wanted them or not I mean it's just and how you positioned yourself in that environment I mean you know we were sitting there and all of us we coached literally at the senior bow one year and we all liked Kirk Morrison and I wanted Jordan Beck and this kid from cowply San Le abiso and I was really nervous Cal at the time because huh who still has a bad foot right yeah yeah so and so and so and I was ready about CP FEI because back then do you remember that I forget with that karate thing they had this thing down in San Louis abiso where they were all doing T tap X tap out remember this remember wink y the UFC's that was tap out and I thought everybody down there was was taking juice like there was a time where every player like calp was putting like three guys in the NFL every year it was like like there's something going on in that gym down there that didn't meat my eye right and and ever since we drafted Jeff Bal when I was at the 49ers and had to do a book report on steroids for coach Walsh I've been obsessed with like like am I getting fooled by this or not you know and so but he loved Beck cuz Beck ran fast and so we were at a I mean literally this was like Shiloh in the Civil War we were having a bloodbath in uh in the draft room and it's and and he and he basically says in the second round I mean we're losing prisoners left and right it's so bad there's casualties all over we're stepping over bodies and we lose we lose I mean we're down to no Army and kingdon's over there still looking for his glasses cuz he can't find them and so we're we're we're we're down to nobody and he makes the proclamation I'll take Morrison if he's there in the third and he never thought he would be there in the third and so of course he's there in the third and we take him and he's pissed and my man Pat Jones is sitting over there in the corner now Pat was one of those guys who said nothing never said a word right loved the guy to death Pat was a great guy but Pat wasn't going to get in any kind of other than how you doing Mr Davis God that chocolate cake looks good he not going to do anything right and so fin so like three picks later Jordan Beck goes to the naturally the Super Bowl winning franchise of the Atlanta Falcons picked by uh Kaiser s McKay right and he gets picked and all of a sudden Pat comes out and says Beck just went Beck just went and you talk about like that became Vicksburg Gettysburg all wrapped into one then there was nobody left in the room except me and I'm taking all the Strat I know we got to go to break we come back we'll tell a couple more we got to tell a l Holt story though yeah we got to get more of that let's take a quick break this is the GM shuffle all [Music] right we're going to keep the stories rolling here on the GM Shuffle with University of Michigan defensive coordinator Don wink Martin Dale and in the last segment you alluded to some some Lou Holt stories uh during your time at Notre Dame 1994 1995 please share with us what what's your best L hold stuff the folks want to know the listeners I'm sure well let me set it up first when I when I when I hear when I hear Tai Schmidt on Pat mcae when he does I'm like all I want is Ty and wink to be in the room at the same time because I think wink does as good as any of them but to me the the W wink and I would sit in the back of the bus and I and after I get my after the the Art Shell season where I was getting my ass kicked every week you know and it was my fault that you know we were losing uh because we hired AR shell I'm like just taking it and I just wink just give me a couple loose stories please so without much further Ado G give me the story when you what you had to do for L see I think not a lot of people understand that you know when we all got started in this business and I don't want to sound like a remember when because it's the lest form of conversation but we all had to do chores I had to get Harvey Hy's Car Wash and wink was working as a graduate assistant at Notre Dame and you take it from there no doubt whenever whenever okay I'll tell you that one that's a good lead in so whenever you know coach Holtz was one of The Originators of you know going out and doing speaking engagements and I had to pick him up at like 1:30 in the morning at Chicago air airport his car he had to always whenever anybody took him anywhere you always had to have a cooler with two caffeine free three Diet Cokes okay uh two snicker bars and a Wendy's grilled chicken sandwich plain okay I'm telling you Fe I don't know if you ever got into the cooler one time when I was with him but you always had to have that so wherever he was picked up that's what you have so I pick him up the airport and he has this blanket when would you buy the window did you buy the chicken sandwich would you buy the chicken sandwich in South Ben or would you buy it when you got to Chicago I wasn't going to take that chance I bought it and in South Ben and I kept it in a heating heating deal so if he ever wanted it see the details you got to have FEI with this you you got toils with this is see well this is important because if if it's a cold sandwich you're not going to be a great coach I'm just telling you these are the kind of details you got to have continue my man no doubt No Doubt and uh so he said hey Winks I I'll drive so he gets in the car you know I get everything loaded up I got the cooler back there you need anything coach no I'm good and I mean I was white knuckled on the o handle and the dashboard because we were doing 90 going back to South Bend he wanted to get home he was tired sure enough Highway Patrol lights it up so he looks over at me and goes sometimes it pays to be the head coach at the University Notre day like that's all okay yes sir so the guy comes up and says uh how you do it officer you know make sure he's stood out to him so he knew who he was I'm doing fine sir can I have your registration and license well I guess he's already getting mad I guess there you go so the guy comes back I'm trying to shorten the story up and I and I mean I'm just I'm not even looking now I'm looking out the window the other side on the side of the road and uh he goes uh sir you were doing 92 I have to give you a ticket well just give me the dam ass ticket and I tell you what you can go down the road three miles and I'm going to go by you doing that damn fast again he said uh Mr Holtz there's one other thing I want to tell you what's that go blue and Lou hit the gas I mean he barely grabbed his license he hit the gas I know he threw gravel on his car and we were going to hold I'm like I'm going to get I'm going to be in a holding cell with BL hols and thank God no one else got him the rest of away but you know it's there's so many of those those different things like Mike talks about all the time that that you did back then that uh you you know one time uh Tony yovich was a recruiting coordinator and we didn't have a punt returner this is my first year there and I'm not saying anything I'm sitting in the back corner I'm just taking notes I'm like I just I was coaching High School football I know there's a part Runner here he's on the baseball team so I I wait like three hours I'm pacing I go see his his assistant Jan God lover and I'm finally like I need to see coach so I go in there and I said coach we have a pun returner here what you bring it up the damn ass meeting I mean I've been there for like three weeks you know why you bring it up the damn ass meeting you're part of this staff who's the damn Master returner who you talking about I said the center fielder he got drafted by the Tigers too I said the center fielder Scott San he goes all right well I'll take a look at it now next time speak your oh yeah oh yes sir yes sir I will so next day that's back when I don't know if they still have it they had the blue and gold come out like every Tuesday or Wednesday head on the front page Lou finds his pun returner article about Scott San now I'm into deep prayer please please be able to catch a punt and we had Hunter Smith remember him Mike Hunter the punter from Texas H&M he could punted for the Colts remember him but hun frandy so Scott comes out and he he looked like a little kid dressed up for Halloween in his pads you know his shoulder pads were clanking he'd come out I'm like like and at that time Ron paus was a quarterback he's like cuz I you know of course I was talking to paus I'm like here's my guy first two punts Hunter Hunter Nails him first one bounces off his face mask the other one bounces off his shoulder pad and Rob po looked at me he goes wink you're fired probably so Lou goes no come here because he's he's already playing his son you know this is his guy and uh he goes so he goes back to show Scott how to catch a punt you know like Lou L's 87 he was 48 49 now uh coach hold was he goes back and the ball hits Lou right on the tip of his ring finger oh hell no hell no trainer J R now the rest of the story is Scottsman single-handedly beat Purdue he returned a pun scor two two he sler kid kid had a great college career I don't think he made it in the major leagues but uh you know he played for the Tigers and uh but those kinds of stories when you when you have the experience that Mike and I both had there's there's some great ones and I was just fortunate enough to be with Mike uh like I said with the Raiders that I mean Mike and I he's a dear friend of mine that's not why I listen to your show I think your show has great content I think half the NFL that does listen to your show show is not going to tell you because they they don't want to tell you that they're listening to you guys with with some of the ideas that Mike has in the other half are friends like me that I I text him a lot of times and say has a great show you know it's there's there's like I said it's a it's a great show and I you're too yeah we appreciate that yeah thank you you're too kind it was a it was really you know I make fun of we tease about Al but the Brilliance of the man was beyond and you know his ability to anticipate I think the thing that that we all learned working there and I say we because it was you know when you worked for Al it was you were working together because it was you against Al and and it worked as an organization when we all worked as everybody worked against him as opposed to cuz he was never going to be on a team you could never get him on a team so and that wasn't his job his job was to play Devil's Advocate that's his role as an owner and so when we all were formula as a team and we all got along and we all worked in harmony you know we could get something done and so but you also learn players and plays which I think we miss so much you know as you do because as you prepare for your game plan you're looking at players and plays you're just not blitzing the blitz you're looking at how do I manufacture production out of players within the scheme and I think it's become a lost art and I think guys just spend too much time on chalk boards or grease boards drawing up as opposed to understanding how the player fits to play right that's just like Isaiah Simmons I I still to this day one of the highest grades I've ever given in the draft I believe in him now he's got to find the right coordinator that believes in him that has the system you know that can move him around for him to play at his best level and uh you know still he's still young in his career it'd be interesting to see where he at you know what what ends up doing you know it's it's those those type of things that Mike and I have had many of conversations and uh you know I talk to Mike all the time you know if I'm stuck I I'll call Mike say what do you think and uh he's not only been a great friend but he's been a great advisor and Mentor for me and I'm glad to be on the show where I could actually say it and and uh you know you guys are doing a great job with us well you're too kind right yeah we we really we appreciate you we could tell we could tell Al's stories and we could tell Rob Bryan stories to the day comes home with you know we didn't even add Rob in this conversation when wink tried to when Rob and wink tried to run a coverage that out put in against the Kansas City Chiefs and Eddie Kennison took it for a touchdown and all week long wink you remember this all week long I kept going over to you guys what is that coverage and I kept cut I cut it out on Wednesday practice I cut it out on Thursday I cut it out on Friday all week long I had it and I I was waiting for him to ask me what the coverage was and uh he never asked and you know usually after every practice I did you see what they were doing what are they thinking about why would they do that you better get them straightened out I mean these guys they're going to kill us you know like I'm like and I'm not the head coach right like I have nothing to do you know and so so anyway so we're playing the Chiefs and they're really good man they're really good they got Gonzalez they got Jason Dunn on the line they got a great Willie Ro they got PRI homes Trent green I mean they're good we have no business being in there all I could think about was that horse run around after they scored every touchdown but anyway so we're playing at home and we got a lead I think we're winning 30 31- 27 we got a four-point lead late in the game and and we run that coverage and it looks like we're playing it looks like we're playing some kind of two but we it converts into a three and and they run a slim post to Eddie Kennison and Trent green hits him on the fifth step and he's still running to this day and I mean my phone lights up my phone lights up that night I mean it just lights up fire and it and he's yelling at me and I'm like Mr Davis I cut that I cut that coverage out I didn't understand what we were trying to do and I waited for wink and and Rob to come into work that morning and I just sat out in front right there like at 5:30 and I could see Rob still walking in eating good and plenties he's got good and plenties in his hand he's shaking along you know remember that way I'm happier and I said Rob you're going to hit your ass fired today and Rob's like what are you talking about he made me put that coverage in that's what we were dealing with that's that's great St is that not a true story wink that is a true story Fe what he didn't tell you was whenever Mr Davis would get on the plane all the assistant coaches go like this oh act like we're asleep so we're not answering any questions nobody understands it Fe nobody understands it they all went to sleep and I had to sit next to the guy and I had to sit there and take it just take it on the chin you know and and thank God Jim aotto and Sally Otto were sitting behind so at least she kind of was he she didn't want to hear him cursing all the time so I think he kind of played it soft but God bless him anyway wink we we can't thank you enough for being here man thank you you're welcome anytime please wish you the best of luck love it thank you guys and go Blue there we go that is Don wink Marell defensive cordinator for University of Michigan like Michael said I'll Echo his sentiments you're welcome anytime and we do truly appreciate the kind words here and that does it for us here on this edition of the GM shuffle a fun podcast great stories from from back then in the in the world of football but thank you to our producer Elliot Bowman with us on the ones and twos thank you to Don wi marale for joining us thank you to you Michael we'll talk to everybody later on this week uh hope you guys all enjoyed the podcast subscribe rate and review as always we'll see you later on