Myles Murphy HIGH on Most Important Bengals for Future | Mike Santagata Shares His Rankings!

let's wrap up our most important Cincinnati Bengals for the future with Mike santaga you are locked on Bengals your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team everyday what up Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the locked on Bengals podcast this is the last in our series of most important Bengals for the future I'm Jake lisco he's James rine we're your normal host of the lock on Bengals podcast joined today by Mike santaga to join to to discuss his list of most important Bengals for the future very chalky list and why he was so close to consensus we'll get into his methodology and his rankings for the most important Bengals for the future in this episode this episode of lock on Bengals like all of them is part of the lockon podcast Network it's Available to You on YouTube and everywhere you get your podcast shout out to all the people out there that are every dayers and make us their first list and appreciate all of you who have made us part of your daily routine even in the late part of the off seon Mike you are our last member of the panel to discuss their ranking system and their rankings and where we've been starting with our panel and we did this with James and myself as well was a discussion about the methodology you took everyone's had a little bit of a different flavor of how they've approached this ranking exercise in this project so important to understand the framework before the list really has any meaning to it so what what did you take into account when you were putting together this list yeah I had to start with the philosophical question of like what is the future and pontificate about that for a while and uh what what is future what is the most important because to me the way the team set up like this year technically the future next year the future and those two years to me matter a little bit more just because there's less uncertainty there's more certainty about like who's going to be here who's not going to be here you don't know for sure uh but you could see contracts some of this is projecting like yeah and cam Taylor brick gets a deal and that's why he's gonna be important he'll be here for all four or five however many years you're thinking when you get into year three year four and it's just look back three years to the Bengal Super Bowl team and so many of the guys are gone even guys if you would have asked in 2021 who's the most important Bengals for the future T Higgins would have been like number three and if he had a deal he still be number three but things happen so I ended up taking a little bit more of an approach that's looking at the present but also keeping in mind the future because you get guys that are on like one twoyear deals and you think like what are the odds that this guy comes back I didn't want to give anybody no chance of coming back including T like and you mentioned this um when you guys talked about him but it's not a non it's not a zero% chance he's gone or here in 2025 you get the double tag uh something along those lines so then two years of T Higgins is worth quite a bit because I think he's great so that was the start of it and then measuring their impact in my mind and like also the importance of a little bit of the importance of position they play so that's why Evan mcperson spoiler did not make my list I'm sorry uh I think I was the only one I might have been the only one not to have him on um but yeah you you didn't make the list just because I I thought of well look is is Austin Mamer gonna be up there one of those punters one of the one of the is Long Snapper call Midas hasn't had an issue yet so you know plenty of special teamers that could make it but yeah I just looked at that and that's why it starts the way it does and that's also why I think I end up a little bit lower on rookies because I didn't project the highest outcome or try to like really well we'll get there with Miles Murphy but a lot of guys didn't really try to plant my flag of like yeah and Germaine Burton will be wide receiver too he will be on the field all the time and just next year I just kind of thought like yeah that's probably a second round Talent they found in the third round but there's a lot of unknowns with that and I think he's a good player my ranking did not mean that he was a bad player or anything I think he's a good player but this year fighting for wide receiver three could he move up to being the second wide receiver for them maybe but maybe they just draft somebody next year they love drafting wide receivers then he's still wide receiver three the whole time and then dicey I'm like what is the impact of that yeah I I agree with you I I weighed the next two years really heavy similar you know the Gino Stones the Sheldon Rankin's that like those guys well they have value a ton of value and they're super important even though it's only a two-year deal and I think it's interesting because I think most maybe not most but a lot of people viewed it the opposite we talked to John on our last show and you know he was taking a fiveyear window which is eternity like I know it's half a decade five years I mean five years ago Joo hadn't thrown an NFL pass you know I mean how much has changed since then so a lot of things change so I I like your approach there how hard was it to uh not even hard but it's it's similar to me where you're prioritizing the next couple of years at the same time there are guys with high draft p agree and we'll get into your list but Mims Murphy guys like that that we expect to be big parts of the future but they are unproven it's it's easy to rank the The Proven guys I think and knowing how important they are but what about the the unproven guys that you're expecting a lot out of how how challenging was that to to slot them in giving your philosophy of kind of a shorter window than some of our other panelist yeah I mean well one they get the Boost because I know they'll be here in three four years at least I'm pretty confident they'll be here in three four years when you talk about Mims you talk about Murphy uh it would take it would take a bit to I mean I guess you could just decline a fifth year option on Murphy and then you're at the end of that if he's been really bad or something but I think I have one a little bit of bias because I like both those guys a lot coming out and they were first round picks so this wasn't like I liked him and he was a like Burton I like Burton he was a third round pick I kind of put in like he was a third round pick too like there's always a reason for these things it's not like every team is stupid except us um so Mims Murphy first round picks and I like their film and I think that Murphy showed some stuff last year that looks like you could project it if you were trying to say like ah look at how he beat Christian derasa here and that's a really good left tackle and he beats him clean for a sack and he could have had two sacks if the but there's like a way a little bit of holding now wasn't C so um but yeah I I looked at that as I am still factoring in three years four years and even five years down the line and like the long-term future because that's also a reason that you're gonna just undoubtedly have Jamar Chase like number two right because you know he's here even with the contract not done yet you know he's gonna be here four years from now five years from now so it's really easy um same with Joe burrow I think his contract does run that long so I looked at the long-term future with them to give him a little bit of a boost but I also think they're gonna have impacts if not this year the next year I think Murphy will probably have an impact a bigger impact this year and then it'll grow more in the next season Mims is a little bit you know hard to say because I think Trent Brown will start over him but Trent Brown miss his time every year getting 17 games out of him would be awesome it'd be pretty low chance of happening so who's gonna start those games probably M so m is gonna have an impact this year and then he moves into being a starting offensive tackle after that that's one of the most important positions you can play sounds like your approach is pretty similar to mine to be honest Mike and and I also weighed the first two years is heavier than the last two years I I went fouryear window I gave a score for everyone who watched that episode sorry this is a repeat of last Monday but uh I gave a score for 24 25 26 and 27 and I waited the 20126 score was like worth 60% of what the first two years was worth and the 2027 was worth just 25% so those last two years in my system combined to be worth less than one of the next two years in My overall scoring system that I worked out which maybe is why Mike our top six works out to be identical and our players included in the top nine are all the same players there's just a small Shuffle in number seven through n so Mike let's get into your list of guys you ranked and then we'll start discussing some of those individuals coming up next passion Drive imp patience the formula for winning championships is also what keeps your ride or die alive eBay Motors has everything you need to maintain your rid or die and level it up to Peak Performance from superchargers roof racks exhaust kits LED headlights and more whether you're into speed power or style eBay Motors has you covered with over 122 million parts for your number one ride or die you'll always find exactly what you're looking for with eBay guaranteed fit your part is guaranteed to fit your ride every time or your money back because with eBay Motors you're burning rubber not cash with all the parts you need at the prices you want it's easy to make your car the MVP and bring home huge wins keep your ride or die alive at ebaymotors.com eligible items only exclusion Supply eBay guaranteed fit only available to us customers all right Mike let's talk about your list run us through the guys you ranked and you'll fre to discuss any of the difficult decisions or or controversial perhaps rankings that you put together when you were working on putting together this list been a while uh first two not controversial um it's Joe bur and Jamar Chase I assume everybody had that as their first two it's easy it's they're the immediate future and the longdistance future and they're the most important players on the team so let's just move on I mean right now they're the most important players and they're young enough to be the most important important players four years from now we're good um I have milesy 3 and part of that is projection and I know I talked about the unknown and everything else I like miles Murphy a lot I think he has the chance to be a star I don't know if he hits that but you're talking about a first round pick who's got all of the traits and tools to be there missing some of the technical ability but I thought it got a little bit better throughout the year and then towards the end kind of he might have hit a tiny bit of a rookie wall not like DJ Turner did who we'll get to but just like his best game came either against I think it was against Pittsburgh when he beat both their rookie offensive tackle brck Jones and he also beat uh I don't know Dan Moore Chuck sakor for like that's not like a huge accomplishment but you know I think it was Dan Moore which Trey Hendrickson beats him every time too uh but still you're beating an NFL player and he's he might start again to start the year for them so who knows uh but he also beat Christian derasa it's just what I'm looking at that he had some good reps against Dian Dawkins who had a good year I think I'm projecting a little bit of like I think this guy's gonna be good like I think if he and I think he might Force his way onto the field more than we think this year I wouldn't say it's 100 perc certain but if you get let's say middle of the season and you've got miles Murphy playing as many snaps as Sam hubt I'm not shocked I I think he could by the end of the season be out there not starting over him maybe but playing more snaps just because he's young hungry and he can take it like some of these older they need a little bit of a break sometimes uh not Trey Hendrickson I guess he he plays too many snaps and Sam hubard kind of does that sometimes too but Sam hubber has worn down a little bit towards the end of the year the past couple of Seasons so might be better to keep on a little bit fresher and Murphy can take that beating doesn't have wear on the tire wear T tread on the tires going on right now so that's why I've got number three I just think that he plays a really important position he could become the best pass rusher on the team and two at once Hendrickson leaves he could take that mantle and be a double digit sack guy I see that as a potential for him could also whiff could also just end up being like I don't know a solid run defending Edge Rush kind of Sam hubard like could end up being Sam H but Sam hub's still worth up quite a bit like Sam hub's not something to sneeze at if this was Sam hub's second season he would be on this list easily so that's my thoughts on Miles Murphy at number three I just think there is some certainty that he'll have a pretty good siiz role I think he'll be the third Edge rusher defensive end and they'll force him onto the field a little bit this year yeah I I agree with a lot I I think it's interesting that you have him third because of the projection versus how you you looked at things Jake mentioned and and we're gonna have you run down your entire list in a second how similar you guys are then 10 happens and all hell breaks loose and you guys aren't similar at all and but with with Miles Murphy you certainly are but go through the rest of your list and then we'll break down some of these guys who who do you have it for four is Orlando Brown and the whole reason I have him over a Marius Mims at number five like back to back whole reason is just I know Orlando Brown starts this season so even if Mims is going to be better in two years three years you have to weigh in well I know Orlando Brown's starting this year and he doesn't miss games so he's probably starting all 17 games at least possibly offensive line you know violent physical position you never know what happens but I think he's a solid player good player I think he got injured and it affected him um I expect a better year this year than last year so I think being a pretty good left tackle is going to worth a lot so he ends up being the fourth and Mims fifth obvious reasons just right tackle of the future he's the only reason he's not number four is just because he's probably not starting at least to start the season C the Brit six I also felt like that wasn't that hard to figure out because he feels like the most likely outside of Jamar Chase to get an extension now that doesn't mean it will happen 100% sure because I thought the same thing about plenty of guys before and they don't extend them but he's a good he's a he's a pretty good Corner he's a solid Corner Physical um very useful very smart player I think he's gotten better every year so there's still some potential there even if some of the physical limitations so I could see him coming at number six I got my list of so I keep looking uh but and then kind of the opposite not the opposite but similarly kind of uh Logan Wilson at seven was just uh I know he'll be here he's the Green Dot he's the leader of the defense it's important he's a ball magnet you know he'll probably play better this this year this past year was hopefully the worst season we get from Logan Wilson over the next four years because I think he should play better than that and I think he will so he'll have a little bit more confidence in his ability uh just playing with better players and that sandwich around him in front and behind hopefully that least to some better results and the whole reason that Pratt's not there with him is because Pratt's gone in a couple years so Wilson's not that's I they could always resign Pratt again but uh third contracts not really the Bengals Forte not something they do terribly often there's actually a lot of consensus here between the three of us through the top six where Joe bur Jamar Chase everybody's got him there there's a little bit of a difference with with James on Miles Murphy and then H for Orlando Brown and mariio smims and cam Taylor Brit we're we're all seeing that the same way I do find that interesting uh why don't you run through the rest of the guys you ranked and then we'll talk about some of the some of the other interesting bits uh DJ Turner is going to be one that we're going to circle back to for sure and perhaps some of the some of the younger guys as well you're also one of two people on our panel to give Alex cap a consideration for the top 15 which I think is interesting but I won't spoil more of your guys let's let's continue to run through the list I was the other one Sans go ahead nice eighth with Trey Hendrickson I mean I'm sure everybody's talked a lot about this hard to figure out but you know very important right now DJ Turner number nine we'll get there number 10 T Higgins feel like it's also interesting we'll get there uh but we talked a little bit about he's not it's not that he's 100% gone after this year Gino Stone Jordan battle which Gino Stone was hard for me because I feel like they could sign him again like he's young he's on a two-year deal like I don't think it's a certainty he's gone after this deal then Sheldon rankins Alex Kappa to me that almost put him back toback just like two-year deals solid players very useful not sure where to put that though and then Jermaine Burton Chris Jenkins right after I feel like that is those are opposites where like Sheldon rank is Alex Kappa like I know these guys are solid I know they're here for two years there's a chance they could be here for longer and jermine Burt and Chris Jenkins is like I don't know they could be they could be stars who knows and they should be higher but at the same time second round pick third round pick for this year I don't it's hard it's hard to figure out because when it comes the first round picks I know a certainty that they're gonna at least give that guy a really good shot get the third round picks gonna earn it uh so yeah that's that's the list the whole way down through 15 and then there's guys I thought of after that thinking of like Mike Hilton even though he's older but like another guy I think of nonzero chance he ends up playing longer than we think for the Bengals and Dax Hill very difficult I ended up uh being one of the few to not rank him just because we'll talk about DJ Turner I think DJ Turner is the guy for that job well let's yeah let's talk about it DJ Turner ninth on your list why do you have him ninth why do you think he's that important and obviously you have him well ahead of Dax who he's competing with for that starting job yeah part of it is I'm not that confident Dax will be a outside corner like part of me thinks that his actual role this year is gonna be the backup nickel and they're just giving him a chance to go win a job because you're not going to win that job over Mike Hilton so hey we still want you to we're you were first- round pick we still like you let's try to get you to win a job and your best shot at winning a job is over DJ Turner cuz he's the weak link out of everybody in the secondary he's the only one that's not like an established vet good player to me DJ Turner when I watch him I think he's got the prototypical movement skills he lacks some length he lacks some size Hill's not super long or you know you know physical big cam Taylor Brit style corner so they're a little bit similar there and when it comes to who's played where like Turner's played a ton of snaps outside and that's what they need right now and Dax Hill in college here he played corner he played nick he played inside and when you hear he played for the Bengals he played one game outside and got kind of toasted I felt bad for him like why was he out there and he's trying to cover Amari Cooper as a rookie who's never played outside corner in that Browns game where everybody went down and the Halloween Massacre so I I'm kind of playing the flag of like I just think DJ Turner wins his job it's a very important position and he was a second round pick I think he still could be a good player I'm not running him off after one year where I thought he showed games this year where he was good and then the he was bad and there's games where everything looks bad but he's in the right position he's just balls just Out Of Reach and I think that's okay for right now he's got to learn how to play a little bit longer how to play to the maximum of his length and he could be a good corner so it's really just deciding which one you're rolling with to me like do you think DJ Turner is gonna be your outside corner or do you think dexil is gonna be the outside corner to me I think it'll be DJ Turner I think it's interesting but I also think that anytime a first round pick's getting moved positions in his third season that's not a good sign yeah yeah we'll continue with the the list and specifics on why Sans ranked who where we will continue with that coming up next this episode of lock on Bengals is sponsored by betterhelp and betterhelp knows as an online provider of therapy that comparison is a thief of Joy it's really easy to Envy other people people's lives especially with the unrealistic images we see and Snippets we see on social media it might look like they have it all together on Instagram but in reality they have complex up and down lives just like every single one of us and therapy can help you focus on what you want instead of what others have so you can start living your best life they can 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you did because let me make sure but I think you were second highest on T you were I had him seventh the 10th and then no one Joe had him 15th but that's it the Jake had him 16th so was pretty low on a lot of lists obviously we know about his future being in question why'd you have him 10 yeah well this year is probably the best team they'll have over the next at least two three seasons if T Higgins leaves after this year so this year very important and it's got the least amount of uncertainty I think T Higgins is a great player I think awesome like I think if what probably probably when he leaves and if he goes somewhere that's a decent situation I'm not talking about going somewhere where his quarterback can't throw the ball or something you know Atlanta over the past couple of Seasons but if he goes somewhere with a decent situation I think he could end up being a really good player I think he could end up talking about like oh man T Higgins like if only they could have kept him too and I know it's just not feasible for the Bengals to do it long term at least in their mind so he's not gonna be here in four years but there's a lot of uncertainty in four years so to me I think a guy that's going to be here and give you really high level football this year and possibly next season that's the tough part because it's not a high chance but it's not I don't think it's below like a 10 per like I feel like it's an okay chance that if he balls out this year like you could write plenty of stories that how T Higgins gets the double tag one wide receiver Market keeps exploding so if you can get them it ends up looking like an okay deal that is what it is uh two say jaar Chase just hopefully doesn't but goes down for another extended period of time and T's been awesome jar has been down like T's on Pace for like a 1500 yard season any time that he's the number one guy if that happens again and they just go like look okay let's keep him around one more year as jamar's rehabs or something like that like there's plenty of SE and hopefully it's a more happy story of like yeah they're both awesome 1600 yard receivers or something with 12 touchdowns each let's just keep them around like this is a steal to keep him at $26 million or something compared to Tyreek Hill just got $50 million a year I don't know uh so well maybe Jamar Chase did actually uh so uh there's plenty of ways that it could end up happening most likely is that he leaves after the season but the season's still important the season is one of the most important Seasons that they'll have over the next couple of Seasons because you're kind of going through a mini retooling and trying to get some of these young players up to speed like they're gonna have as much Firepower right now as they probably will over the next four years so to me this is the best shot at a Lombardi if any these players is one of the top three reasons you win a Lombardi they're going to you would look back and go like yeah he was very important even if he left after one year thinking of like Von Miller for the Rams like I If I Was ranking that now with it in my mind back then and be like yeah Von Miller was really important he won a Super Bowl for this team uh so or Aaron Donald if you try to do that it's like yeah he retires after next season but you know Aaron Donald he wants the Super Bowl and he's been awesome now I'm not saying TS is those guys that's why he's at 10th and not at like fifth so that's where I am on T he was really hard to rank he was probably the hardest person for me to come up with a ranking it's hard because of that word future and when you think about the word future in the NFL you can't really go past two years which is why I had in my system the pretty significant reduction of importance but I still counted them because it's like a tiebreaker kind of thing I ended up with huge clusters of players too where it was really really tight for me between like s and 20 the difference is much smaller between those guys than it is at the top where there's some very clear these guys have easily projectable roles are already very important to the team and are under contract for all these years and there's no real reason to to drop them in the ranking system but one other takeaway for me when I did this exercise was the the future core for the Bengals is is kind of hard to identify like the next wave of extension candidates I'm not really sure where those players are right now like obviously there's Jamar Chase we've talked about Evan mcferson as an extension candidate this year cam Taylor Britt I think will be one as well but beyond those guys who we all have um ranked pretty highly besides mcferson because he's a specialist it's kind of difficult in in my eyes to say like here's guys that are going to be the future core here are guys that are going to get the next wave of fouryear extensions what were your thoughts or other takeaways like that did you have any like roster texture takeaways or team building takeaways when you were doing this process yeah I think that came up when I was thinking of like Sheldon rankings Alex Kappa and Gino Stone of like they don't have a ton of guys that you're like well they won't have money for those guys because I know these guys are getting paid it's kind of those things like well I actually don't know that many people are getting paid so why is T not getting paid but that it's too late it's too late is the real issue like it had to have been done last year or the year before now it's like well now it's all new money that's hard that's hard to put together but that comes up it's like that's why cam Taylor Brits six Logan Wilson seven it's like those the top seven are the guys that I feel pretty confident will be here in four years after that it's like well yeah maybe Trey Hendrickson doesn't get extended but he's important DJ Turner if he's good he gets extended if he's not he's probably off the team in three years and T Higgins another one it's like I think of that I that was really difficult for me of like who is are the guys that will get these extensions and it's just going to play out I think that's the biggest part of this this is the perfect year to do this and have a lot of differences because if you did this a few years ago you might be thinking like yes T Higgins will get an extension Lo get an extension and all those other guys now it's very I don't know who gets extensions so I mean and like Jessie Bates would have been yep Jessie Bates would going into the period with in which the Bengals and Jessie Bates were negotiating we all thought yeah of course they're going to extend Jessie Bates he's a really good player and then really quickly it became evident that that wasn't wasn't such a sure thing James do you have any other sweeping takeaways from this as as we reflect on it we kind of wrap things up here a little bit this is the last episode of course in the series and last chance to reflect on this yeah I think the the way the roster is set up is is part of why I had the the short-term two-year window like this roster more than a lot of rosters because there's so many two-year contracts are guys that are now happen to have two years left heck even Jamar technically has two years left and obviously things could change in a hurry and hopefully they can lock him up long term but cam Taylor Brit same thing like what if he's an all proo this year and and he's like the Jesse Bates where it's like oh oh now the Bengals historically value Corner more so You' hope that they'd be able to get something done with cim Taylor but if he becomes a star but it's just it is interesting because I think we all agree that it's one of the The higher-end rosters in the NFL but the key is some of these guys regardless of where we had them ranked the Andre yashas Charlie Jones whether they were ranked or not and a lot of us at least me and Mike didn't have them in our top 20 um but Chase Brown uh Chris Jenkins Germaine B you need some of these guys to hit obviously Mims and Murphy uh lead the pack there but all these other guys some of these guys need to hit starting this year so they show up on all of our lists next year because if they do then it'll be much easier to see that those extension candidates that you mentioned Jake because you're right right now it's probably like player F in free agency a few years from now that that we'll be talking about next march and then the March after that yeah and like where do future draft pick slot into this is is something that people asked on Twitter like oh yeah well you know I'll put 2025 first round draft pick at number seven or you know not knowing who that is just knowing that draft picks in the first round are important and that was part of my process too that was something that I thought was really interesting I think only I did this where I said you know in the case of Miles Murphy like if he doesn't hit that's important too like I took the the the other side of it where when you've invested highly in a player and it doesn't work out that's important in a negative way and has an has a maj impact on the team in a negative way I I don't think anyone else kind of brought that up but that was part of the process for me and why miles Murphy ranked you know as part of the reason that Miles Murphy was number three on my list different reasoning from from you Mike in terms of why he ended up there but just a player where there's a lot of Leverage and if it goes well then the highend like in terms of like baseball leverage like if he if he hits that's a really good thing and if he misses that's a really bad thing that's what I mean by it like high leverage situation outcome has a big impact on this team's ability to be a good pass rushing team for the next five years because Trey Hendrickson is not going to be necessarily part of that long-term future as much as he's part of the short-term future so there were some very interesting approaches everybody's got their own episode where we broke down our list we broke down the public list we broke down consensus we've talked about takeaways I thought it was a really interesting six-part process talking about what is important to the Bengals future what can we Define as a Bengals future what is really even predictable and and what can or should we be thinking about when we're thinking about the future you can find Mike on Twitter Bengals forsans he's also on the always game day in Cincinnati podcast Mike appreciate the time and that's going to wrap up this series everybody thanks for hanging out and and keeping up as we've gone through it and until next time thanks for listening to this episode of the lockdown Bengals podcast H day and have a good one