Pod Save America’s Jon Favreau on Biden, Trump & Obama

uh John Fabro welcome to the issue is and thank you for having us here at Crooked thanks for uh thanks for coming and thanks for having me on the show yeah uh we love that crooked is here in California and it often gives us an opportunity to mooch off your guests so we we appreciate that as well when people come in uh to do your show um this you know the book is great democracy or else uh and how to save America in 10 steps uh I read the whole thing it's fun it's fast it's funny it's like every other sentence seems to be a joke tried to keep it light it's the textbook I wish I had when I was taking poly s class and and I think it's really inviting for a whole lot of people even if you're not a liberal I think it's really written as a way to get you more involved in politics why do you think that a book like this is necessary I mean we started pod Safe America back in 2017 because after Donald Trump won a lot of people who hadn't been involved in politics hadn't really even paid attention to politics and some Democrats some Republicans some people who just weren't either said you know we're scared about what's happening with the country we want to get involved but we're just we're not sure how how we'd be most useful where to start and you know the Pod for the last several years has been trying to help people understand that politics doesn't have to be as scary and confusing as it may seem and that getting involved is easier and more useful than you might think and um we ALS also had the opportunity to talk to so many people who are smarter than us and more experienced than us and uh whether it's strategists politicians organizers activists and so we wanted to include their lessons in the book our lessons in the book and just sort of put it all on paper because we've been talking into microphones for all these years but we figured it' be it'd be good to get it into a book yeah and and that is the best part about hosting a show is that you do get to talk to people smarter than you and and I'm so grateful for the opportunity to talk to you uh to learn from you and and the book starts with this idea of being prepared and getting informed and goes into the very challenging Dynamic that we're in right now in terms of our media landscape which has changed so much even in the last few years yes for people that are confused on what do I believe what do I not believe where should I go what do you say I mean I still think mainstream news sources uh your New York Times Wall Street jour Washington Post the issue is see the issue of course yes um like those are going to be the sources that you can still count on even though they don't have the reach they used to have that's of course part of the issue um but that that's where you could and and I also would advise people to you know go seek out new sources that don't necessarily confirm your own beliefs now that doesn't necessarily mean like go on social media and just find someone saying the opposite like there are there are good news sources that are uh that I might not agree with always I don't know I don't agree with the Wall Street Journal editorial page all the time but I still think that the Wall Street Journal is a is a good news organization go like seek out those views and also if you see something and it strikes you as surprising like go find a couple other sources that are saying it as well you know don't just take don't just take one tweet and think that that's the news and start sharing it so I think you've got to be um in this media environment you've uh sometimes it's it's tempting to like consume everything or to just like go after whatever is new and trending and the reality is you're still going to be better off and you're going to be better informed if you go and seek like straight news sources um that have editors and institutional support behind them and like that's that's where you're going to get your your best news right this idea that you actually have to fact check the idea that you could get sued if you don't get it right uh that some of these random online X accounts don't have all of that and may not be experts in that space and you hear us on the Pod all the time like I make sure when I'm writing the script for PODS of America that if I'm giving people information from somewhere I'm citing The Source I'm letting them know what it is and you know we're liberal and we have a viewpoint but I I think that it's not contradictory to have a political partisan point of view and still provide people with information that is credible and truthful so you're the messaging guy obviously you were the speech writer for Obama um and and one of the things you talk about in terms of messaging here is the challenge of talking to people that really aren't that into politics which by the way is most people most people aren't like us we're weird in that space um and there's a lot of people especially with this election that don't like the two presidential candidates and are thinking about sitting this one out and you talk about the way to talk to them what's your best ad viice for people to try to bring them into the fold a little bit it's a great question I think often times when we think about how to communicate with people we think about it in terms of what do I need to say to them what do I need to tell them and I think a lot of the most impactful and persuasive conversations start with listening and asking someone what do you care about what issues are on your mind what concerns do you have about um political issues that may affect you that may affect your family may affect your community or the country and and then go in from that from that way um and and do it from there and I you know we tell a story in the book uh about um this woman who we had interviewed for another podcast I do called the Wilderness and she was in uh Western Pennsylvania in a pretty conservative red area of Pennsylvania she's liberal and after the 2016 elections in advance of the midterms she was door- knocking and she encountered entered this you know house Trump flag talked to this woman definitely a trump supporter and instead of saying like you know I'm from the resistance and we're we're we're trying to elect Democrats you know she said what do you care about and she said well I care about the high cost of prescription drugs and I think and she goes yeah me too she goes I have MS and um and I'm worried about Healthcare and she's like yeah I think that the pharmaceutical companies are like charging too much she me too and they had this nice conversation about Healthcare where they realized that they agreed on a lot more than they thought and in addition to perhaps convincing that woman to see things from Another political point of view it also just built trust between the two of them and I think that right now when most of the people who might not participate in this election have such little trust and faith in institutions making sure they hear from trusted Messengers and making sure that you can be a trusted messenger is probably going to be the most important thing uh in terms of trying to persuade them to see things differently and you make the argu that talking to a neighbor or somebody in your community is far more influential and persuadable than some random schmuck yes that's even maybe even calling you on the phone or something like that although that that story reminded me of an experience that I had when I was in college and I was doing door knocking and I remember asking are you voting for John KY and the guy said I'm voting to shoot John Carrey and I said undecided I think we got the data wrong on this one but I've gotten plenty of those I was I was a I I did telemarketing for newspaper in high school so you can imagine how many uh how many Hang-Ups and expletives I dealt with from a different media environment um you also talk about organizing and the importance of that and the importance of organizing for the races beyond the president uh that are really important and especially here in California the house races are crucial and what happens in terms of a few districts in California could determine whether Democrats or Republican control the house how are you thinking about that and what will maybe be the involvement of votes save America when it comes to some of those California House races yes it's a great question in 2018 um uh as part of vot save America which is our organization that encourages people to sign up volunteer donate um we uh had something called The Crooked seven which were the seven districts uh the house districts in California then that we thought we could flip from Republican to Democrat and we focused a lot of our efforts on those districts and I think again between California and New York you have enough competitive house districts just in those two blue states that could um that could flip the house to Democrats and you know I think in in uh 2022 while Democrats did better than expected in the Senate races you know I think in in especially in New York some of these house races you know we didn't didn't Focus intensely enough on so I do think it's it's nice because we're here in Los Angeles like we can go to these districts right like the 25 5th is you know just an hour north we've been down to Orange County to a bunch of those districts we you know did door knocking with Katie porter back in 2018 and and some of the candidates down there so um will you know because I think it's a benefit of being in Los Angeles that a lot of our listeners who are also here will volunteer in in some of these districts around La one of the other things you talk about in the book uh democracy or else uh is your own journey into politics um starting uh as a kid working on the carry campaign and wanting to be a speech writer and thinking I can be a speech writer and sort of kind of lucking forcing your way into that a little bit did I did I was um I was on the carry campaign two weeks out of college I was a press assistant on the carry campaign I moved down to DC I had an internship in his Senate Office when I was in college and I was the Press assistant so I got everyone lunches and coffees and I did all the grunt work and then um at one point the Chief speech writer moved to moved from La Andre churny and um he's now running for congress in Arizona and he uh they sat him right next to me in in the office in DC and I bugged him like the way that 21-year-old interns bug the people that they work for and I was like do you need any help as a speech writer and he's you know was nice enough and then he needed a deputy speech writer and I said oh can I apply for the job and and I finally got the courage to ask him and he um immediately said no he's like no you don't have the experience right out of college fast forward a couple months later John krey is losing to Howard Dean in the primary uh had to mortgage his house uh to keep the campaign going and so they couldn't afford to hire a real speech writer and not a lot of people wanted to join that primary campaign because they thought it was a sinking ship so they looked around and they're like all right I guess we can make favro the the Junior speech writer because we not gonna have to pay him more than the $24,000 a year that I was making at the time so that's how I got the job and then Carrie wins the primary and you know I stayed on through the general and you and then a few years later there's this young upstart Senator and your old boss in the in the campaign right Robert Gibbs says come work for us for this guy named Barack Obama yes he did and and and my first meeting with Obama did not go as well because I was at the 2004 convention in Boston where he gave the keynote address and I was working for the carry campaign and um uh the chief speech writer called me from the road and said you know there's a there's a line in the speech the keynote address being delivered by state senator Barack Obama Barack Obama that um John krey wants to use in his speech and I was like so he's like well um we're going to need you to go take that line out of the speech and tell him he needs to change the line and I'm like what so I'm 21 walk down the hall Barack Obama's practicing the 2004 convention speech on teleprompter for the first time I walk up to Gibbs I was like he needs to change the line I tell him the whole thing Gib like I'm not telling him you go tell him so I introduce myself I tell him you know this line and Obama just is like an inch in my face and he goes are you trying to tell me I have to take out my favorite line in this speech and I think I like lost Consciousness for a few seconds and when I when I came to uh I met David axod and he said Son let's walk outside and we'll uh we'll rewrite the line together what was the line the line was at the end of the there are no red States blue states only the United States and originally it was red white and blue and John krey wanted to use red white and blue and so we had to give it to we gave it to joh was it better way that you did think it turned out to be turned turned better and then the best part was months later when I sat down for the job interview with Obama in the Senate Office um he didn't remember that I was the the kid that took the line out so he hired me that of course you become the speech writer uh one of the most famous speech writers in American history for one of the more popular presidents uh and what do you think is the most important lesson you learned from Barack Obama yeah it's a great question I had to relearn lessons that I had learned on the KY campaign and not just because of John krey because most politicians Democratic politicians Republican politicians I think looked at speeches and still looked to some extent at as at speeches as a collection of sound bites and Applause lines and Obama in that 2004 convention speech that he wrote himself because he didn't have a speech writer before me um he told the story and you know the first couple minutes of that speech there are no applause lines because he's talking about his story how it fits in with the larger American story and he wasn't thinking about I got to get them to clap here and I got to get the press to write this somebody he was just like the story is more important than the words and he taught me that and I learned that from him and over the next eight years you know sometimes it frustrated our our comms people that we didn't have like a quotable line in the speech um but that's I think it it you know we we are moved and persuaded by stories by emotion more so than just facts and figures um and that is how he you know communicated with people and I do think that more politicians would be better off if if that's how they communicated this goes back to like caveman drawing stories abut but do you think that would work now with our attention span which is even shorter than it was in 2008 it is I've thought about that many times uh in the last couple years is what what will become of speechwriting I I think that I still think you see this on YouTube all the time people like tune in for hours right orve America they don't if they don't stay with you bu we and we try to keep it like you know 45 Joe Rogan's going like three hours you know and so if if the content feels authentic and it is authentic and it is it just sounds conversational and it's like striking a cord with someone people will they will spend the time with it and look that still means that I'm I'm aware that uh people are still consuming a lot of news and political information in very short clips on so you have to do all of that but I I think that you shouldn't try to communicate or write necessarily just for the medium you've got to start with what's the story I want to tell and then you can figure out how to shape that so that it fits within maybe a shorter clip or whatever else it seems like we're in this weird moment where people's attention span is either 3 seconds or 3 hours I know right and the in between they're like they aren't there they're like scrolling or let's just stay with forever well CU it's so hard to just capture people's attention and once you have their attention you can do it but it takes a while to get that there's one story that I thought was really great in the book which you tell about the White House Correspondence Dinner uh that you were writing with your pal and co-host now John love it yeah uh and this is the famous speech where he both goes after Donald Trump and was busy doing something else on the side but couldn't tell you what he was doing yeah the the day of the correspondent speech uh we were very excited about speech had all these Donald Trump jokes uh Obama had just finally flew out his birth certificate gave a press crazy gave a press conference talk about the birth certificate and so we had all these jokes about Trump and and love it and and uh and me were in the outside the Oval Office we're waiting for our meeting with Obama to go over the jokes one more time and uh uh Obama's personal secretary our friend Katie is like he's in there with uh you know he's got a national security call he's talking to a general and we're like huh the speech is in a couple hours we got to get in there you know we're like all annoyed and finally he opens opens the door and he's in a great mood he's very relaxed and we're sitting there and he's like I love all the jokes I'm really excited for this he goes there's just there's one punchline where uh the punchline is is Bin Laden he goes and I think we need like another sort of global bad guy autocrat whatever or and he's like how about hos Mubarak you know and I'm like that's not that that's not as funny who you know and he's like trust me trust me and then um right before the speech he called me and he was like can you add he's like I'll probably remember this on my own but just add at the end a line that says you know God may God bless America and may God keep our troops safe and I was like that's odd he's never he never told me to do that before and sure enough uh we learned the next day that the call he was on before us was with General mccraven m uh to give the final go-ahead for the mission to uh to get Bin Laden so he had to deal with he was he was dealing with us Jokers yeah while he was well he was you know uh probably giving the giving the green light for one of the most important missions uh our military has done in some time on a weekend where he uh both killed Bin Laden and gave birth to the Donald Trump campaign exactly yeah we went one for two on that it was a very big weekend um so you write about in the book sort of a guide if you want to be a candidate yourself and the value of running yeah have you ever thought about it yeah yourself I've definitely thought about it and then the longer I've been in politics more I'm like it's just I don't think it's for me you know because and I always feel weird because I I encourage young people I encourage everyone if if you know we need more we need more good people to run for office desperately and I worry that like all the normal people who would be who would Excel most at running for office don't want to do it because it's so ugly right um I think for me now like I have been I've seen what it does to someone's schedule you know and I I've seen it with Obama's schedule and car schedule and I have two young kids and a wife who I've already like over the last several years had to tell I got another po I got more traveling so I think it's just you know and I'm and I'm also very I'm very cognizant of like my own background history resume and like you know you want people out there who ort of represent the diversity of America in terms of views and backgrounds and everything else and so you know I'll continue to encourage and and help anyone else who wants to run for office do it we got a pretty good gig here uh so we're talking to John favro the author co-author of democracy or else and one of the things you talk about in this book uh is the importance of taking a break from all the politics because it gets to be way too much uh and you are married and you've got two young kids yeah how has your wife Emily and your kids changed you it's a great question I mean it having kids is certainly the the biggest life change there has ever been like it's you know people say oh there's you go through Transitions and high school to college and marriage nothing compared to having having kids and now you know my eldest son Charlie is uh almost four and I find as much as uh parenting is challenging and exhausting when I am just hanging out with him and I can put the phone down and not think about politics like that is a break can do a real break I'm still very tired but it for like mentally it is it's a break and it's also like you know I get to there's a different skill required right I'm teaching him about the world and now he talks and we have these great conversations and it's just it's it's wonderful and um it's funny because I didn't think when Emily first said she was pregnant I was like oh God I don't I this could be a huge mistake I don't know if I'm going be parent I got politics to deal with I don't have time for this kid thing and now I'm like obsessed with them obsessed that's your whole that's your world for sure a couple quick news of the day thing before we break wrap up um you're the messaging guy uh you you help craft messages and right now the Democrats are struggling with the message over President Biden's age I know you were at the fundraiser that uh Obama and Biden were both at I was there covering it as the pool reporter and I will say privately many of the Democrats coming out were like looked really old you know like Obama not the best comparison and they they were concerned they wouldn't say it on camera but they were concerned obviously this is something you have to talk about on camera um what's your advice in terms of the messaging over President Biden's age yeah I mean it's a great first of all I would say I know everyone's like scared of saying it but it's like yeah he's old and like he looks old I was yeah I was a that fundraiser and he was very tired he just came from the G7 and he flew right from Italy to La so was like an insane schedule press cor by the way was exhausted too they were like zombies the ones that were traveling he's not going to be as good when he's that tired and like that's just I don't acknowledging that to me does not um equate with saying oh so he's not up for the job and it's bad and we're going to hurt his chances and you know I know that there's this like big fight the week the week this happened over like deceptively edited videos of him freezing or not and like I don't think he froze I saw him I was a couple rows in and I saw him like looking at the audience but it's like why pick that fight because like he is old he did look tired and even if he didn't freeze like what's going to help the age issue is showing because I think what the age issue is a proxy for is people worried that he is not up to taking the decisive action that we need right now and so whenever they can show Joe Biden taking those actions right like this was in the the same event right so like all all these Democrats are fighting over the edited whatever the same event President Biden in response to one question started talking about the Supreme Court and when as far as he's gone and talking about how the uh the stakes of the election are so high when it comes to the Supreme Court and we've got to you know we're could have two justices uh nominated for the next president and here's what I'm going to do and the courts and I was like that we want to be talking about that right he sounded strong he sounded decisive it's like instead of fighting about whether he froze or not couple days later he takes he takes two immigration actions over the last couple weeks one on the border that got him some Guff from the the left and then this this great action where he is uh helping the spouses of undocumented the undocumented spouses of American citizens uh have a pathway to citizenship who've been here for 10 years and in both those cases he took strong decisive action and I think for voters they care more that he's doing that than because that can Pro that proves to them that he can do the job and that he's up to the job and that's going to prove it more than just arguing about it ever well yeah and and is that that's I would imagine be your advice for the debate too it's a show not tell thing I also think that he is we have seen him be energetic and feisty at the State of the Union I thought at the correspondence in Her speech he was like that as well I think in some interviews he's like that so he's obviously go I'm sure in debate prep right now I'm sure like it'll be top of mind to be like Punchy energetic all that kind of stuff but I do think like it's a it's a show notel and it's about him being feeling the sense of urgency of the moment right if I I truly believe and I know Joe Biden believes and a lot of Voters believe that this election you know Donald Trump and and Maga represent an existential threat to our way of life in this country if we believe that then we got to act like it right and we got and the words we use have to convey that sense of urgency and if Joe Biden's up there and he's communicating that like this is a going down this road again is a threat to this country but I know there's a way out and there's a way out together and I can take us there like that's going to work you know and then one California question what do you make of our governor and what do you think of him as a presidential candidate Gavin Nome I um I really like Gavin Nome and I say that because when I first when I first came out here I like wasn't sure because he's like you know it's just he's got a he's got a look right that makes you think like he's like the I mean you know right you've talked to him a bunch of times he's like the biggest policy nerd he like really cares he's a really good communicator he thinks deeply about like how to I I love that he goes on Fox I love that he like mixes it up we did the Shan hany thing like you know like a bit of a stunt but like good for him um I think as a it's tough as a national candidate for any governor of California um but look it's like he we need really effective strong communicators in this party and I'm I'm very excited that he um has like risen to that challenge and so yeah we we'll see but I I I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised if he ran but um I think that like you know we could do a lot worse than someone that smart and that talented in communicating um as we wrap things up with John favro the co-author of democracy or else on the issue is we have a little bit of fun we play this game called personal issues where we do your rapid fire your personal favorites cultural favorites to get to know you a little bit so first thing that comes to mind uh what is your favorite TV show oh favorite TV show uh succession what is your favorite kids movie Inside Out just watch inside we we got Charlie through almost all of it the new one or the the first one yeah that we watched it just before the new one came out very nice uh what's your favorite book other than of course democracy else my favorite book that's a great question you know that I I'll give you my favorite book that got me into Politics as a kid which was um all to human George stephanopoulos's book it's a great great book yeah and so honest and then you end up kind of becoming that guy which wild it inspired me to get into politics um are you a big westwing fan I am yeah uh favorite sports team I think I know the answer Red Sox there you go uh who is your favorite pod save America co-host yeah right nice try yeah yeah uh what is the best thing about being a Californian honestly everything I'm just going to say like I thought I I thought I would be East Coast for life from Boston lived in DC for 10 years I was like what Cal and it's cheesy to say the weather but like I I think it is it's so wonderful to wake up every day and walk around in this city like I really do I'm I'm here for life my family's here my parents move from Boston they're in Thousand Oaks uh my brother is here he lives in the valley and uh Emily's sister lives down in Orange County so like we now all have Roots out here and uh and we'll be here for we'll be here for a long time it's not as bad as some cable Prime Time host say it is not at all yeah um and finally John Fabro who is your role model my role model honestly like it's it's G to sound cheesy but like I still like look up to Barack Obama in a in a big way and I always having it's just because I I had the he wasn't just my boss he was like a mentor to me and everyone's always like how did you write for a guy who writes that well I mean it was a gift that I got to learn about writing from one of the best and he was always so patient with me and in in all these like very high stress high pressure situations he never lost patience he never yelled at me and um and he just cares a lot and he sort of taught me the way I see the world and the way I see politics is really um based on what I learned from him I mean what I we talked about what he taught you but but what do you think made him so exceptional as a politician to be able to beat the Bush family the Clinton family these massive dynasties to go toeo Toe with all these different people to be the first black president what was it about him I've come to think that he has a very finely honed sense of empathy and I think the reason he has that is he's biracial so he's had he's had a foot in so many different worlds right so black white Kansas Hawaii he Indonesia Indonesia he's been to some of the the poorest neighborhoods you know organizing in Chicago wealthy school like puno in Hawaii right like he's been he's he's got family from Canada and Chinese Canadians like all over the world so I think because he is of so many different worlds he understands that to persuade and to move people you have to meet them where they are you have to try to put yourself in their shoes and then bring them along and I think that's the most important skill in politics and and that's his whole life tells that story which is why I think he's was able to succeed well John congrats on all your success it's really incredible what you've built with crooked and I think the most important work you've done though with is with vote saing America and this ability of bringing people into politics from all different walks of life around the country and getting them involved in the system is I think the most important thing and I and I hope that's a huge part of your legacy because it's really important work well thank you and um and I'm I'm just really grateful for our team here who puts together and and runs it and also just all the people who have signed up and given their time and energy to this because that's that's what we need right now and all the proceeds from this book democracy or else goes to vote save America to help get people more involved in politics that's right John favro so great to talk to you on the issue thanks so much for having us thank you