Kamala Harris Expertly Handles Donald Trump's Attacks In First Interview As Nominee

Intro welcome to pod Safe America I'm John favro I'm Dan feifer on today's show Donald Trump now wants you to believe he's a champion of Reproductive Rights his campaign also continues their fight with the US military over Trump's visit to Arlington National Cemetery always a fight you want to pick and we got a whole raft of new polls showing an extremely tight race but first KLA Harris and Tim Walls sat down for their first TV interview since becoming the Democratic ticket in the world will Reaction to Kamala Harris and Tim Walz's CNN Interview never be the same that's right it's 10 p.m. Eastern as we're recording this about 4 hours later than we usually record because we were not about to let this episode of pod save America become overtaken by events knock on wood you have no idea what's going to happen between now and 6 a.m. tomorrow it's okay yeah well you know what it's 10:15 East Coast time now so I'm I'm willing to take my chances wow how about that I just put it out there uh so anyway we waited around for CNN to air danab bash's interiew with Harris and walls which they sat down for after wrapping up a bus tour through southern Georgia uh not surprisingly when the first excerpt of the interview dropped today it was Dana asking Harris about why she's changed positions on some key issues from past campaigns let's listen and I made that clear on the debate stage in 2020 that I would not ban fracking as vice president I did not ban fracking as president I will not ban fracking my values have not changed so that that is the reality of it and four years of being vice president I'll tell you one of the the the aspects to your point is traveling the country extensively I mean I'm here in Georgia I think somebody told me 17 times since I've been vice president in Georgia alone I believe it is important to build consensus and it is important to to to find a common place of understanding of where we can actually solve problems all right Dan so we knew this one was coming uh and so did KLA Harris uh how do you think she did great was the right answer she didn't get weigh down in the details of it she didn't let Dana Bash got you with her she just laid it out on message in a way that I think is easily understood to people because unlike politicians people change their mind all the time and they're allowed to do so when they get new information of different experiences so I think it's it was it was a good answer to a question that they have known was coming since the day she became the nominee that line my values haven't changed she repeated several times I saw some folks on the Harris campaign uh tweeting that uh clearly like that they wanted that to be the message that people take away from that and it you know basically it's like two parts to this answer like one my values haven't changed but and you heard her at the end there talk about you know as I've been vice president and traveled around the country like one thing I've learned is how to build consensus she's also trying to signal that like and you know she did this in her convention speech as well when she said I'll be a president who's practical who's realistic she wants to convey that she has these deeply held values that are not changing but in terms of how she gets to a solution she is willing to compromise work with other people find consensus which I think is pretty smart I thought it was a great answer I there it's going to like get her through um it got her through this interview um very well I do think that during the debate she will probably get pushed uh even harder either by the moderators or definitely by Donald Trump on some of these like okay so you change your mind you're not for Banning fracking anymore you're not for uh you know decriminalizing border crossings anymore like what made you change your mind why did you change your mind and so you know she I'm sure they are workshopping like one additional answer if she continues to get pushed on it um but I don't think I don't think she should have gone there during this interview because you don't want to make the whole interview which was 18 minutes all about you Defending Your Past positions or talking about why you change your mind or whatever yeah you're going to need a specific answer for some of the specific changes and danab bass tried to get her there she was like uh you know is there specific science you looked at and you could see that in a debate um although it's just hard to imagine TR Trump will push her on it but it's hard to imagine him like pushing her in the way in which K Harris will probably push Trump like you sort of a lawyer cross-examination sort of way I'll just probably just sort of yell at her in assert positions for her but you're going to need some he doesn't know what he's talking about which is his chall he doesn't he didn't understand the previous position doesn't understand the current position so doesn't know what fracking is doesn't really know what decriminalizing border crossings are he doesn't know any of that yeah so speaking of trump he did jump on the phrase my values have not changed in a truth social post where he said he agreed with her her values haven't changed and that quote the border is going to remain open zero fracking etc etc so clearly an attempt by him to saddle Kamala with her old positions um you think that work not him truth think about it or whatever he's going to do next is there's tens and tens of millions of dollars of money is going to be spent on TV over the next 11 weeks here whatever it is and they can do that right not that many people will see this interview even though all of Washington waited for this as if it was the inauguration itself there was so much anticipation about this interview I mean we're recording countown clocks like earlier the week yeah it's just people people like this very seriously and it's look it's important you should do interviews she did it it went for well but what was said in this interview is going to be less consequential over the course of the next several months than how this argument plays out in television and digital advertising right he will assert these POS there will be ads that just simply assert that she is for Banning fracking in Pennsylvania and how you effectively push back on that is going to be key yes um I and I do think that part of the way you push back on that is bringing the debate forward and talking about the future and what you're going to do and versus what Donald Trump's going to do and I think she did that a lot I think it was great too when Dana Bash asked like what what would your priority be on day one you know she didn't like name a specific executive order executive orders are tough these days since they continue to get overturned by the Supreme Court um and she didn't even name a specific piece of legislation but she said the middle class the middle class is my priority like day one I'm going to talk about how to strengthen the middle class how to expand the middle class and she started talking about some of her policies that she has already proposed regarding bringing down costs uh of groceries of housing Etc and she actually got a Chiron on CNN when she when she said this that I'm sure the campaign just loved and the Chiron just says KLA Harris day one priority is the middle class that's like a that's like a pollsters dream Dan put it in an ad people put it in an ad uh another question we knew was coming was how Harris feels about Trump calling her race and identity into question uh here's that exchange you suggested that you happened to turn black recently for political purposes questioning a core Park of your identity yeah any same old tired Playbook next question please that's it that's it okay I absolutely loved that response um I'm sure there are some people who may have wanted to hear a more visceral response from her or hear her attack Trump for this why do you think that she and her team decided to uh brush it off because they are smart they have watched the last nine years of democratic politics and learned something which is you cannot follow Trump down his rabbit holes this is what he wants to talk about right he wants to make it about race he wants to if she were to respond to that that would be the headlines of this whole piece not what she would do for the middle class not how she would secure the board any of that it would be haris Trump Spar over her race and she understands as Barack Obama did that the best way to deal with this is to push it aside and pivot and it can be incredibly frustrating because it is such a what he does is so offensive that it feels like you have to call it out but our outrage is often his fuel so we take it we brush it off which drives him nuts which is a huge bonus and move on to something else and she did this I was the moment when I was most confident that kamla Harris was going to be a great presidential candidate was when the day when he brought up this attack at the National Association of black journalist conference and she was speaking in front of a Convention of a black sorority and she stood up there and just she's smiled chuckled and then said same old stuff and moved on it's like she's got it she has figured this out she knows how to talk about Trump she knows how to drive him ins saying she knows how to make this campaign be on her terms not his I thought it was great I loved it so so much Donald Trump has made an entire career out of saying and doing sexist and racist and xenophobic that is who he is and every time he does it calling it out does not do anything else it makes the person who calls it out feel better it probably makes a lot of us feel better who feel the same way we're trying to win an election here by moving and persuading voters Donald Trump was elected president saying these things already he and like you said he would like nothing more than to have the entire campaign about her reactions to his provocations that is that is what he wants that is what his campaign wants that is how they think they'll win and the Harris campaign is incredibly smart and not taking the bait and like you said it is a lesson that has been learned over many years I think the Biden campaign did a pretty good job of that in 2020 as well not taking the bait I think there were a lot of lessons learned from Hillary campaign in 2016 before we knew what worked for Trump uh so it's understandable but um I think it I'm just I was very very happy with that answer um Dana also asked Harris if she would appoint a republican to a cabinet post uh and it seemed to surprise kamla in a pleasant way uh let's take a listen you had a lot of Republican speakers at the convention will you appoint a republican to your cabinet yes I would anyone in I would no one no one in particular in mine I got a we got 68 days to go with this election so I'm not putting the cart before the horse but I would I think I think it's really important I I have spent my career inviting diversity of opinion I think it's important to have people at the table when some of the most important decisions are being made that have different views different experiences and I think um it would be to the benefit of the American public to have a member of my cabinet who was a republican so uh our never Trump house Sarah Longwell suggested on Twitter that KLA name Mitt Romney for treasury what do you think about that and then maybe he's actually it's a it's a package deal he's gonna come with Paul Ryan as budget director look put the Paul Ryan thing aside and I say this with all respect for Sarah long who's one of the smartest people in politics but ABS lutely not that is an insane I think Sarah was just trolling us too she is I consider me troll I think it was a joke I think the idea that we would appoint a multi-millionaire private Equity executive who ran on cutting tax for the rich and raising them on the middle class as our treasury secretary is insane we cannot do that I already know what job this Republican will have it will be the department it'll be Transportation secretary it's always Transportation secretary like who was great we loved ra Hood ra Hood was great but he was sorry George W bush similarly appointed a Democrat to his cabinet it was Nor manetta Transportation secretary so there was some never Trump Republican running around out there maybe Trump maybe it's like Jeff Flake or something like that who's been drummed out of Congress by Trump who is going to be the transportation secretary in 2025 guaranteed make Adam kininger VA secretary that's that is that is another option that's there's there's plenty of cabinet jobs that are not like look you're not you can't do the big you can't do the big thing well well the the man we worked for I know did defense secretary had there were a few Republicans defense secretary we do in hindsight does it do we possibly regret that you know we'll pause here and rhs and Tommy are listening they can pick it up on pod save the world that's right their thoughts on our Republican defense secretaries uh anyway um no I thought it was I think it's a great idea to do though it it look it's it's a simple little thing but it is a an important signal to the electorate about who she is and what she stands for and how she'd govern and it is important for her to do that more than it would have been for Joe Biden because people a lot of Voters still want to know more about her before they make up their mind to vote for her and this is a signal that she is going and she also talked in the interview about building consensus voters want people they want their politicians whether you're on the left or on the right or in the center you don't have to be a Centrist to want this there just a vast majority of Voters want their leaders to seek consensus that's just what they want I assumed based on all the tweeting about this from various people on the Harris walls campaign and the fact they put out a statement or press release sort of announcing that that she said this that this was their planned piece of news for the interview which I thought was very smart but now that that I've watched it it seems like no it doesn't seem like it was playing cuz she seems surprised but sometimes it's better to be lucky than good because she gave the exact right answer um so the fun part of the interview which Dana and CNN teased very effectively this afternoon many times by promising a TMI answer uh was Harris's account of the moment Joe Biden called her to say he was dropping out again Donna said like what were you doing and she said well let me tell you I hav told maybe maybe this is TMI too much information and we were all left one wondering what could she have possibly been doing when the president of United States called her to tell her he was stepping aside from the race let's listen it was a Sunday so here I'll I'll give you a little too much information go for it there's no such thing Adam vice president um my family was staying with us and um including my baby nieces and we had just had pancakes and you know Auntie can I have more bacon yes I'll make you more bacon and then we were going to S we were sitting down to to do a puzzle and the phone rang and it was Joe Biden and um and he told me what he had decided to do and um I asked him are you sure and he said yes and um and that's how I learned about it the puzzle is the puzzle TMI is the bacon TMI yeah I thought she was going to be like Doug was on the toilet and got the call yeah I mean the thing we already know so much about this is you already said that to me at one point and then I pointed out to you that we already knew that Doug was at Soul cycle and then having a Latte when this happen yeah he was he was at Soul cycle he was at Soul cycle in West Hollywood which is the the soul cycle I used to go to back in my uh when I first moved here remember how how our old friend David ax used to say the last thing you want to do is bring out the cannon and then when it when it goes off it's just a little flag that says pal comes out I kind of feel like that's how this was TNN teas us so much and then it was just a very Charming story about the vice presid United States making bacon and doing with her niece like it wasn't T it was Charming Charming is the right adjective for that story yeah um anyway that's the story stepping back here for a minute because again the TMI thing was teased everything was teased there was so much conversation uh in Washington and in political press about this interview um we're up a a good hour past our bedtimes and when I say hour bedtimes I mean like me and you we live on the west coast still 7:30 usually I'm usually getting close to bed right now um what do you make of all the hysteria around this interview she's she's got to do it and then she says yes and then oh but she's doing it with walls so it doesn't count because it's a joint interview and then oh it was only 18 minutes and what is she doing and all this just the amount of ink spilled and tweets and segments on cable news it's wild it really was sort of an example of the press yearning the political press in particular yearning for a different era right there's still a little like cable news consumption has changing in dramatic ways particularly this election there was so much like hand ringing about the 200 creators that were invited to the Democratic Convention as opposed to the 1400 credential press um like us we had badges that said we were we were even though like to think of myself as a Creator we were in the credential we were counted in that 1400 credential press we did walk up to many real reporters and show them our Badges and say see we're just like you n this wasn't that which they love they thought was Charming as always as they always find us they find us as Charming is the body Campa right interviews are um an important part of the process but they are a tool in which you communicate your message right it's not you are not required by the Constitution to do some sort of Journal istic to kathon to reach the White House and the challenge for a lot of the press and this has been going on for a long time but it's kind of hit a Tipping Point in this election is it was always this sort of falan bargain which is I'm going to take your really hard questions many of which many of whom will be process oriented and totally antithetical to what my message is or what I think the voters care about but in exchange for that you're going to take that interview and you're going to show it to a whole bunch of people I need to see it but that the connection between The credibility that comes from doing that interview in the reach of that interview has been largely severed in this media environment and so there's just like a lot of like trying too hard to make this a thing now the Harris campaign waited a very long time to do their first interview so obviously pressure was going to build if they had done an interview a week into the campaign then there would not have been all of this hysteria obviously but they obviously had a lot to do right they had to pick a vice president do a convention figure out who was going to work on the commit all in the short period but it does show that these sort of traditional interviews are probably going to be less of a part of the campaign than they've ever been before and that's true on Trump's side too all of his interviews are with Fox and Newsmax and all of that his you know he's when was the last time he's sitting down with uh danab bash right or Lester hold or any of that stuff um it's just we're in a very very different media environment and I think the very Insider and even People Like Us right who've been part of this for a long time are struggling to figure out how to think about how some of these changes are happening I have um tried to cut down on my media criticism I don't I don't do it as much anymore partly because I think a lot of the media criticism out there is some of it's unfair I think a lot of it's unfair a lot of a lot of it's unfair I think most of it is ineffective uh I think they it's just the constant Twitter arguing about the headlines and what does the New York Times headline do I don't want to get into it but it's I think it's it's ineffective um but I will say on this point it was fair to ask when she would do her first big interview like before the convention when this first started swirling right but then like a week before the convention she says I will schedule an interview by the end of the month uh a sit down interview she said it to a reporter who was talking to her because she took questions as she stepped off the plane and then she had her convention and then after the convention and she picked her running mate and then after the convention uh which was a very busy week where nominees typically don't do a bunch of interviews because it's the convention week and you're giving speeches and that's the message the the week right after the convention she does her first sitdown interview with her running mate which is also a tradition a lot of the you know you you get you pick a running mate you sit down you do a joint interview and the the the swirl around it the debate after we had already she already said she was going to do it she already said she sitting down she had a convention like what are we still talking about it for what are we was they were like interviewing people who've interviewed her and what it was like and it's just it was so silly it's just such a um like an insular Naval gazy inside DC thing which again I don't complain about much anymore but in this case I was like that's it's not great it's not great like the Press can and should demand all the access interviews they can get that's that's their that's their job they're here for but it's you do have have to sometimes separate that from the broader discussion of like democracy and what's worthwhile and all of that if right there's this balance between if it's not worth the candidates time to take questions they're not going to take questions so you have to have interviews that are worth their time that actually Reach people to actually to be see and be seen which is why we through the rest of this campaign I imagine the number of local interviews she does will dramatically outpace the number of national interviews because you are hitting you know the efficiency of a local television interview dramatically outstrips the efficiency of a national television interview in terms of reaching the smallest liver of people who are going to decide this election yeah and you know time is finite on a campaign especially this campaign and we're heading into the week of the debate so I don't imagine like a big sit down interview before that and then after the debate it's sort of a Sprint to the finish and you're right there's a lot of value in local interviews in terms of reaching voters and there's a lot of values in a lot of value in we still call them non-traditional but they're becoming more traditional like all these other you know whether it's sitting down with creators whether it's sitting down you know whether it's reaching people through other mediums other channels other like there's just a lot to do and a lot of people to reach in a very fractured environment from the campaign's perspective that they can't use a ton of her time just sitting down with the same cable networks reporters National networks like they can't just like do a round of all those because the group of people who are watching NBC ABC CBS CNN are like the same group of people generally and so they've got to find the voters who aren't consuming that content in order to win the race like my view is going forward like get past the debate right she got to prep for this debate what she's being asked to do in this short period of time is totally unprecedented and almost impossible to imagine extremely difficult yeah but going forward like her strategy should probably be the some version of everything everywhere all at once right do the local TV do DriveTime radio in Milwaukee and Detroit in Philly do you know some you know big National thing do 60 minutes again if you can do a bunch of non you I hate the term nontraditional but do a bunch of stuff that is will actually Reach people who don't pay attention to politics right Tim Walls did this interview on this Tik Tok show Subway takes where he gets really deep into uh gutter repair which is very important and and this is one thing Trump shows up and does a lot of podcasts that are very explicitly Target to young men right he was on Theo's podcast last week having a very inquisitive conversation about cocaine use he was on this other podcast that gets a ton who the clips of which get a ton of traction on Tik Tok from a by a guy named Sean Smith who's a former Special Operations guy there he is he did the Jak and Logan Paul's podcast he is their media for all the craziness around the truth and everything their non-traditional media strategy is incredibly smart and it's it's so specifically designed to hit the exact people they need who are young men who of all Races who do not pay who do not follow regular news and as we get further in this campaign the Harris walls campaign is going to they have an amazing digital team they have built up an organic Army but she and Tim Walls are going to have to show up in places like that um to do those sorts of podcasts those sorts of things with creators or influencers that will go immediately viral on Tik Tok and get to people like that is going to have to be a big part of the strategy and you layer that in with some the more traditional stuff because you still have to get some of those older voters right that's a a group she's going to have to hold on to is some of the some of those older Biden voters uh in the industrial Midwest and that you're going to do that with like 60 Minutes in CBS Sunday Morning is more than hot ones interview but also do hot on also do hot ones yeah that's why I was laughing uh all right let's talk about Donald Trump trump campaign has promised that their candidate would be more active on the Trump Campaigns And Tries to Swing Left on Reproductive Health campaign Trail and uh at least uh on Thursday he was he did a rally in Michigan and then flew to Wisconsin for a town hall moderated by Democrat turned independent turned Trump supporter debate coach tulsey gabard uh Trump also made gabard and RFK Jr honorary co-chairs of his presidential transition team quite a team of wackos Trump's assembling huh uh what do you why do you think he did that why do you think he named them co-chairs of the transition well I imagine that the RFK Jr thing is some part it's either I don't know if it's the quidd or the quo in the quidd pro quo that came with the endorsement and dropping out it's not the pro yeah defin I know it's not the pro it's either the quit or the quo um and he clearly there was a discussion about RFK Jr in exchange for droing ding Trump wanted some role right and Trump probably wasn't in position although maybe he did promise him like HHS secretary or something but this was the first thing they could do new Dr fouchy is RFK Jr I mean godp spe um Tulsa Gabbert has become this sort of Maga celebrity and this she just rep and I think in Trump's head represents like this is a former Democratic member of Congress who is supporting me right who's on my transition team and it's not like it's not crazy to go out to a bunch of Voters who don't love other candidate don't love other party and say that you know you say he's going to be this dictator and he's got a Kennedy and a former Democratic member of Congress running his transition right that does that is a I would say a not particularly precise way or the way I would choose but it is a way to try to sand down the edges of some of the project 2025 stuff of extremism is like but a Kennedy really do this I mean once you know about RFK Jr and his tendency to drive around with dead animals in his car you might feel different but if you just he a Kennedy and a former Democrat maybe you're less likely to think he's a dictator who's going to do X Y and Z I think they are trying to Target with RFK Jr and Tulsi gabard some of the same voters you were just talking about they tend to be younger tend to be men tend to be uh not consume a lot of political content and most importantly their views of politics and institutions r large is very cynical um they think that uh this is these are types of people who think you know we shouldn't be spending sending any money abroad they don't understand you know the war in Ukraine they um don't uh they think that corporations are all out to get them but not in a way where it's like you know when you hear like democratic populism like in a um you know they're uh they're they're putting poison in the vaccines kind of way the RFK Jr stuff right and so it's very conspiratorial right he's just trying to they're basically trying to collect or they're basically trying to reach out to all the conspiracy theorists online trolls uh anti-establishment lowi information voters um with people who like to who are good at getting attention for taking very contrarian positions um that sound good to a lot of people who are sort of fed up with politics and fed up with government and by and it's it's it's interesting because it's sort of like changing the axis from Left Right to sort of anti-establishment and then you know kamla Harris Joe Biden Barack Obama the never trumpers they all represent like the establishment and and Trump wants to show that like he and JD Vance and tulsey gabard and RFK Jr maybe they're a little wacky but they're this like band of rebels right that's that's sort of the I think what they're trying to do now I think the the challenge is like if you like RFK Jr and telsey gabard and all these other people like aren't you already a trump voter or are they going to bring you into to vote for Trump if you don't like Trump I don't know about that yeah I'm not sure I mean these these are not master Strokes they're going to deliver the election but it is it is it is uh it's something out there it's this this this group of cranks that uh he's assembling to try to uh reach out to people who are just sick of and want to tear everything down um all right so Trump seemed uh somewhat surprised that what his campaign builded for an entire week as a town hall was indeed a town hall uh he also had some insightful things to say about clean energy and other topics let's listen we're going to make a speech I had a speech all set for you I I was ready now they said sir you're actually doing a town hall I said oh nobody told me that you take a look at bacon in some of these products and some people don't eat bacon anymore and uh we are going to get the energy prices down when we get energy down you know this was caused by their horrible energy wind they want wind all over the place but when it doesn't blow we have a little problem and one of the things is that JD and I are weird what that guy is so straight JD is so he's doing a great job smart top student great guy and he's not weird and I'm not weird I mean where a lot of things went out weird I will tell you but this woman has to be stopped I'll tell you something about that woman though she's eating bacon and she's cooking bacon there's a multiple times Bacon's been referenced in this podcast tonight I'm pretty H I'm pretty hungry as this so so on message as always uh what what did you think of the Town Hall what do you think of him not knowing it was the town hall that is the most like as the former Stafford me as I can just see that happening just someone forgot like tulsy gabard was the moderator do you think he was just like did he think he was going to go out on stage like was he surprised to see her there did he think she was introducing him maybe probably in you know how he like he has a very uh loose speaking program generally sometimes just spot a sheriff in the crowd and call him up and let him speak um so who knows what he was thinking but I did once uh was headed to CNN with Barack Obama when he discovered it was a town hall not an interview and I would say he was displeased um he fortunately kept that displeasure I mean I would say it was written in the briefing memo in very clear lettering but you know he's a busy guy um and but we'll get Obama on for his response I mean look he's he's right I should have written a clear memo I I I fell on my sword um the uh but you know that's that's a very I'm sure Trump did not either didn't did not read a brief memo has never had a brief memo prepared for him or did not listen when he was told what was happening um and so sure yeah well uh Trump made his big news of the day before the town hall uh as he often does because it's not like he drove a message during the town hall because that's not really his style um but before the town hall he um tried to Veer drastically away from the anti-choice positions uh that even he seems to believe are out of step with most voters at his Michigan rally he announced that under a second Trump term IVF treatments would be totally free either because the government would cover them directly or because insurers would be required to cover it uh Trump was also asked by NBC's Dash a Burns how he'd vote on the Florida ballot initiative that would overturn the state's six-week abortion ban and guarantee access to abortion through an amendment to the Florida state constitution Trump said in response quote I think 6 weeks is too short it has to be more time I've told them that I want more weeks don't know what any of that meant um amazing Trump immediately came under Fire from the anti-abortion right and then he backtracked uh the campaign is now saying that he didn't say how he'll vote which is true he didn't say that um he just quote believe six weeks is too short where do you think he lands on this what do you make of the whole the abortion ballot measure in Florida Trump is very well aware of how politically toxic his abortion position is but I am going to presume that Donald Trump is going to vote no on this amendment because his position is that it's up to the states and this is the position the State of Florida chose so Ergo he is fine with this number of weeks full stop also it's like the him talking about the number of weeks is beside the point because the amendment as I said would not just overturn the six we ban the amendment would enshrine access to abortion as a as a right in the Florida Constitution so there would be you couldn't do a 12we ban you couldn't do an 18we you know what I'm saying like it's just not not which is why I think the campaign and the anti-abortion groups got so mad because if Donald Trump made it seem like he was going to vote for the amendment it means that he wants to make abortion legal and guaranteed in the State of Florida which he didn't say he wants to which should tell everyone something so that's the abort that's the abortion question what do you make of the IVF proposal do you think that should we be surprised that Donald Trump today proposed from what I can tell using Obamacare to force insurers to pay for IVF treatments which I think is how using it I think you'd have to open up the legislation again and pass it I don't think you could just I don't think you can do that via regulation I think I I am like we need to get a smarter person here but I'm wondering if you can do it through the same Provisions allows you to do contraceptive care right but that was wasn't that in the original legislation yeah I think it's the either way it doesn't matter either way he's either going to pass a law or he's going to use federal rulemaking authority to require insurance companies to do this and I'm sure plenty of people know this but if if you don't like IVF treatments are extraordinarily expensive right so like the idea that insurance companies are going to be like fine this is you know not something that uh I would expect and the idea that he's going to get a bunch of republicans in Congress to like get the government to mandate it is seems also a bit farfetched the idea that he actually wants to do this seems like complete yeah I mean it's it's absurd there's it's so thought out like there's no is it legislation is it regulation is there an income cap like there's no policy here there's just like you get IVF you get IVF like it's just it's wild that he's do I mean it's just and it's worth noting that Donald Trump has refused to support any of the efforts that have been put forward to protect access to IVF JD Vance voted against the bill to protect access to IVF and the Republican platform which Donald Trump signed off on and embodies his platform uh includes fetal personhood which would effectively ban IVF so this is ridiculous that is the most important point is just to go back to what happened when the Alabama Supreme Court issued that ruling that put IVF in Jeopardy in the state of Alabama it is because of this fetal personhood idea which is when you have IVF some embryos uh end up being disposed in the process or at least they can be disposed in the process and uh fetal personhood um taken to its logical conclusion as the Alabama Supreme Court decided to do would not allow for disposal of those embryos and if fetal personhood means that you cannot dispose of those embryos thus it would be much harder to just do IVF in the first place because if you can't dispose of some of the embryos that don't work then like it's it's just harder to do which is why a bunch of hospitals after the Supreme Court and Alabama ruled on that decided to pause IVF treatments so yes IVF is expensive and prohibitively expensive for many families so it would be wonderful if insurance companies could cover it and it would be wonderful if we could fight for insurance companies to cover it or the government to mandate it but Donald Trump's problem is not that Donald Trump's problem is that he has taken a position that is allowing various states to put IVF access in Jeopardy not because of the cost but because the Christian nationalist right thinks that uh you know every single uh every single embryo is a person it is absurd do you think it'll work do you think it like do you think this is or do you think people are just going to be like I do Wonder in general all of the like people are going to get a general impression or I wonder if people are going to get a general impression that like a lot of these Republicans JD Vance project 2025 the republicans in Congress they are very anti-abortion don't like it kind of creeps me out you know want the freedom to choose but Donald Trump n you know he says stuff now and then but maybe he's a little more moderate on it and so maybe I'm not as worried that's what they're hoping that voters get as an as a very like generalized impression particularly voters who do not pay close attention to all this AB absolutely he he benefits from that already his you know Manhattan rich guy who cheats on his wives and sleeps with porn stars and we've said this I've said this anote on this podcast before but and when Sarah longw has done focus groups in Ohio around the abortion measure when she asked people if Trump is is pro-life or anti-choice whatever language he uses they laugh and many people will just randomly suggest he's probably paid for abortions himself so he has this impr promod of moderation on it already and just to give an extent of how important it is for Trump to fix his problem on abortion or to prevent Democrats from making him acely portraying his position on abortion in the 2022 midterms according to the exit polls of the 27% of Voters who said abortion was their top issue Republicans lost them 76 to 23 Trump obviously cannot look like Blake Masters Hershel Walker Dr Oz on abortion and if he does he will lose this election yeah no and he's clearly aware of that and I do think that it was very effective in KLA Harris's convention speech when you know the best answer on this is Donald Trump promised to appoint Supreme Court Justices that would overturn roie Wade he then appointed three Supreme Court Justices that he knew would overturn roie Wade they did it and now a third of American women live under abortion banss in this country that's it so so take whatever he says with a grain of salt because that's his record um incidentally if you're freaked out about what a trump presidency would mean for Reproductive Rights and you should be you know what you can do you can go to votesaveamerica.com 12024 and sign up to volunteer so go there now um when the Trump campaign wasn't busy trying to uh Riggle out of their candidates record on abortion they were doubling down on Trump Continues His Fight with Arlington National Cemetery their fight with Arlington National Cemetery about whether they broke the rules and maybe the law by turning Trump's visit into a campaign photo op and then shoving a cemetery official who tried to stop them campaign manager Chris lasv posted a video of the event that he hoped would quote trigger the hacks in the US Army the army theying a fight with the Army over Trump putting campaign photos out and Tik toks of him at a cemetery giving a thumbs up over the graves of Fallen Soldiers that's what we're doing here uh Dan what's the strategy here pick and fight with the AR picking a fight with the Army and do you think this has legs I know there's there we've now gone back to you know to the days of uh I like people who weren't shot down you know what he used to say about John McCain like Donald Trump has has insulted and offended veterans and men and women who currently serve in the military now for 9 years and every time he does it seems like it's going to be like how can anyone vote for him this has to be the last straw especially you know a lot of Republicans who you know respect for the military is like a you know a core value of the Republican party and conservatism and then you know uh we know what happens do you think what do you think about this this latest do you think it's at least a data point in in a larger story about Donald Trump that might move some voters or what in the one of the groups that moved most in Democrats direction from 2016 to 2020 was veteran households right that's a it's some it's a category in the Pew validated voter study which is a household that has a veteran that lives in it and that that margin was actually enough to tip some states and so this stuff does matter ultimately there's no strategy there's just like doubling tripling quadrupling down on just being a giant and it's like proving this is something that's like very endemic to trumpism which is like the more honorable the person or sacred the institution that you're willing to poke in the eye the like the more the more true Yeah the more TR true you are to the Maga cause right that's ultimately how you end up with a bunch of people storming the United States Capital but that's exact Chris LV is who is looking over his shoulder at Cory lowski measuring the dra in his office right now is trying to prove his loyalty to Trump by just letting himself on fire to Chris is a smart PL he knows that there is no upside in picking a fight with the Arlington National Cemetery yeah but he has to do it to appeal to Trump and that will buy him credibility among magga world because look how look at what a giant you are you must be one of us also like rule number one in Maga world is never apologize and never back down on anything right so they don't have the option of saying like yeah maybe they were maybe we shouldn't have done this and we'll pull the video like they don't have the option of doing that that's just not who they are so they got the only way to the only go way to uh you you have to double down that's the only way to do it um okay before we go there was a ton of new polling today uh and Dan if you thought New Polling Analysis we the Pod Safe America Community were going to let you go to bed without talking about it you're sorely mistaken uh in brief we had a new Reuters ipsos National poll showing Harris up 4 4541 a new Wall Street Journal poll showing her up one 4847 Quinn aak poll showing her up 2 4947 Emerson swing state poll showing Harris slightly ahead in Michigan Nevada and Georgia and tied in Pennsylvania Bloomberg morning consult Battleground polls showing her up everywhere and tied in Arizona um and then as you were you and I were talking about earlier the big drama in the in the polar coaster Community uh is that it's a big it's a big Community let me tell you it's a big Community Nate silver moved Trump to a slight favorite in his projection um mostly because of Harris's problems in Pennsylvania and by problems we should just say that it is the race seems tied there or she's like down one depending on the poll that you're looking at um and it becomes very difficult to find a path to 270 without Pennsylvania so to take that last part first what do you think's going on in Pennsyvania uh you talked about this in uh in your message box on Thursday as well in Pennsylvania thus far in the polling if you talk to people involved in the effort super packs elsewhere about the Battlegrounds Pennsylvania is acting tougher than Michigan and Wisconsin right now and there are a couple reasons why that might be the case I mean one very simplistic reason it is it is where Trump was shot and that got tremendous amount of coverage there like for all of it's hard to go back to six weeks ago whenever that was but everyone thought the election was over because of the you know Trump's photo and and that incident and what it all might mean like that that coverage penetrates most there it's also a state that just has a huge variety of phots that you need to get it's much larger than Michigan and Wisconsin so harder to organize um you have to get you have to get tremendous turnout Out of Philly you have to crush in the suburbs then you have this huge swath of the state which contains a a very magga demographic friendly group right a lot of workingclass white voters these are people who turned out out and delivered the state for Trump in 2016 and so when we it is hard it's performing a point or two different than Michigan Wisconsin now if you would ask this the beginning of the cycle based on 2020 and recent elections you would probably say that Michigan was the easiest of the blue wall States Pennsylvania the second and Wisconsin the hardest but so much and that's in part because Wisconsin is the least diverse but Trump has made inroads with uh black voters and Latino voters to some extent right not as much as we probably thought a few months ago but still doing better than he was doing in 2020 and so that's why it's been a little trickier um there not entirely clear why that is but those would be some of the reasons seems like and you know we talked a little bit uh with Dan Canan about this who's the Battleground States director for the Harris campaign but it does seem like in Pennsylvania what she needs to do is focus on um black voters uh that Trump has made inroads with and some who just don't know her and some who are not like paying close attention to the race and also try to increase the her margins in the Philly and Pittsburg suburbs um particularly with women because she probably has more room to grow there and then hold or as best as she can Biden's numbers with sort of non-college white voters in the more rural areas right and she might have some room to grow over Biden's numbers with uh non-oled white women because of Dos yep so that's that's sort of the path in Pennsylvania but it I mean the reason that that affects the entire projection with Nate silver or wherever else is because Pennsylvania is so critical if she doesn't win Pennsylvania but she wins Michigan and Wisconsin she would need Georgia plus Nevada or North Carolina plus Nevada or Arizona Plus North Carolina or Arizona plus d like you need two other states and Arizona and Arizona Nevada alone is not enough to make up the Gap that is the key is the key um so uh kamla knew she was getting the flip-flap question from danab bash and you know you were getting this one from me uh does this count as a convention bounce are we in a are we in a bounce we in bounce territory well the bounce is sort of a fake thing in the last three elections the average bounce of all the candidates is 1.1 points I yeah I saw that in your message box I was like wow I didn't know that that was it was only one point yeah Obama and McCain had decent size balances in 2008 Biden had no bounce in uh 20 Trump had a minus one bounce now those were bizarre conventions because of the pandemic so yeah you know give Grand assault very little bounces in 2016 it just as we become more polarized there's just less room for bounce the electorate is less elastic there's less places to grow you have fewer people in The Other Side who will come over to your side because they saw a good speech during the convention it's harder to get people to pay attention to the convention now and so the where the convention really where you see bounces if you go back in history is when the party is divided before the convention and then they come together at the convention that helped Obama a lot in 2008 uh because of how late that primary against Hillary Clinton had gone but the party United behind kamla Harris six and a half minutes after Joe Biden called her and so she kind of got her bounce already so it's not a state statement that the convention was a failure in anyway shap performance of actually like a rip roaring success but she had sort of banked much of all the bounce before then so maybe she has a point I looked at the New York Times pulling average and it was 494 7 before the convention and it's 4946 now so you know she's up by three instead of up by two but so you know I think the convention bounces a little bit of a FY and to your point about just consolidating the party it's just one poll but in the Quin of poll she's winning Democratic voters 98% to one yeah I mean remember like the days when it was like Biden was winning Democrats like 85% 84% less you know I mean that is just an that's extraordinary um so yeah she's got work to do with Independence she's got work to do with sort of low info voters sporadic voters who don't turn out in every election for sure but um that's the work of the uh the next uh 68 67 whatever number of days now we have if you want to see how divided the country is look at the internals of that Quin poll which is as you said K Harris at Democrats 98 to1 Trump has I think like 864 964 I think Republicans and independents are equally divided 4545 so it's like that is a close race close country um okay that's our show for today everyone enjoy the long weekend huge news we're going to have a special episode of polar coaster for you on Tuesday and then we'll be back in your feed with more PSA on Wednesday bye everybody