Ep. 19 - Chargers Training Camp Position Battles: Interior Defensive Line

[Music] compassion fearlessness humility these are a few things nurses are made of and after earning a degree in finance and working in an office I realized I'm supposed to be a nurse it's what I made for so I enrolled in Maring University's accelerated 16-month nursing program designed for people with non- nursing Bachelor degrees who want to transition into nursing devoted brilliant the list goes on what are you made of search Maran absn to learn more [Music] [Music] you have to be really intentional about putting a team together was craw out of the p and started screaming how good is Joey B rolling looking throwing Endzone touchdown intercepted Derwin James Derwin was there you got to be on a mission every day in the NFL but even more than that you got to be on a mission together welcome to another episode of chargers unleash J Kepner and Dan wolkenstein here with you from the LA football network Today's Show is being of course brought to you by manscaped Dan gotta love manscaped yes I have a shirt on uh we save balls [Music] uh go to manscape.com use the code lab20 that's a new code lab20 get 20% off and free shipping get lawnmower 2.0 you've heard the Spiel but yes lab20 use the code at checkout 20% off and free shipping Jake how are you doing today I feel like we have had quite the last I don't know weeks months but today especially it's been just geez you had a day you had a day I'm I'm doing just fine I have had a hell of a couple of weeks uh I'm ready for a vacation and I'm getting one this weekend that I am extremely excited about so I'm in good spirits but yes this feels weird because you and I have not talked with one one one another since God it's been what at least three weeks since we had a normal yeah just a normal episode just you and me this is it's been a while everybody tuning in right now is immediately disappointed because we've had so many damn guests on over the past couple of weeks and they're like oh no we got to just listen to these two guys for the next half hours stupid faces for 30 minutes oh man anyways I know you had a day Dan but overall how are you um overall I'm good yes I had a day long story short for those are watching and listening I guess um I'm going to give like the quick 30 second elevator pitch of my day I leave the gym I get a call from my wife We There are two German Shepherds outside of our house we don't know who they are our cat was out front our cat then escaped to the backyard cat is safe I then pull up wondering why there are two German Shepherds I then have to leave for an appointment I go into the garage to park I don't park all the way into the garage and the garage door Slams on my car I then hurry up go in grab a protein shake leave to go to my uh teeth appointment I made it there within 1 minute of the grace period uh and then apparently the dogs stayed and tormented the cats for a good half an hour through the door um the cats were hissing and all kind of stuff and uh one of the dogs turns out name is Maverick and the owner comes in apparently had just like put her baby down and the dogs got out and she was like frantically trying to find her dogs and uh my wife almost almost had a heart attack like the whole n so I've had uh stuck in traffic it was brutal it was an eventful day for you yeah did I do that in 30 seconds that was longer huh not not gonna lie when you told me that there was two German Shepherds I thought you were about to tell me like the cops went to the wrong house or something like that like they were the dogs were out sniffing for drugs the wrong house nope they were sniffing for my two cats apparently so that was my day let's talk about something more fun less stressful less anxiet let's talk about football and Jake this is probably when we start getting into some of the more fun nitty-gritty conversations about actual football actual football players and we get to get into position battles this is like one of your favorite parts of the season I love this just because it's again this is the Purgatory time of the offseason and and as of today we have 29 days until training camp officially opens for the Chargers July 27th and uh and we're just sitting and waiting because we've had mini camp we've had OTAs majority of the team obviously showed up for I think actually I think everybody showed up for it if I remember correctly and there's already been so much hype from it we're still coming off the the heels of the draft and everything that that brought along with us we've gone through the free agency period now we got to actually see these guys go out there and perform we've talked about it nauseum durwin James being back I mean the hype Justin Herbert everything and espe going the Super Bowl oh yeah especially after having Fernando Ramirez on last weekend that's what I think really got me going um again just listening to Fernando's knowledge just the I've never wanted to hear someone elaborate more than I want to hear Fernando because you know his answers are going to be lengthy but they're lengthy in the best possible way because it's just a slew of fun stories and knowledge and that was what really geared me up for this conversation that we're having this week and I'm particularly excited today because as you said Dan we're now doing position group breakdowns talking about Camp battles coming up in the next couple of weeks and I didn't want to start with some of the obvious ones because even Fernando was saying last week like well the obvious as far as like the big Camp battles to watch would be wide receiver but there was another position that he talked about and I mentioned this position just prior to the draft I mentioned it prior to free agency there is still one position on this roster I know a lot of people would go and they they would say the safety position as far as there's still a lot of depth that can be filled at that spot for me it's interior defensive line and that's what we're going to be talking about today uh there is a lot of question marks actually to me when I look beyond the starters that we have in this team who is the depth who's going to be that person to step up and you may actually have little bit of competition behind some of these guys so it's going to be interesting especially in Brandon Staley and Ronaldo Hills new defense who's gonna win out I'm I'm I'm interested to to get into some of these guys it is I think what's gonna be more important too as we go through this I should say more important but equally as important as you kind of take a step back is looking at how important the inter defensive line is to a Brandon stale Le defense like you look at his past time I mean you had Argy the best player in football Aaron Donald Shoring up the interior for the Rams you had a Leonard Floyd leard Floyd leard Floyd right I've getting so many names mixed up uh Shoring up the interior I mean he was doing great um kind of an interior exterior tweener sort of thing interior is very important especially if we're switching to 34 so how it's going to be deployed I think is going to be kind of shaping this conversation with which ones make the depth chart why they're going to be important cuz it's a unique defensive front that we're having to fit for a St Le defense yeah definitely and um the the interesting thing about this is is that for certain players that were still kind of waiting to take that next step or you know we've been waiting a couple years for this new scheme change and especially with this new coaching staff it may end up turning out to their benefits so it's going to be a completely new look defense and I could be sitting here today and saying that I'm I'm very scared about the depth but who knows who you really don't know if we're still talking about a Gus Bradley scheme here I I'd probably be walking on eggshells for this position all the way up until week one but the truth is as we said last week we really don't know what to expect because of the new coaching staff that's com in but let's start this off let's let's let's kick it off uh we're going to go through the obvious starters of and and switching to a 34 you got to start with the big man in the middle Lyal Joseph uh probably one of the more underrated defensive linemen that played last year as far as production goes and I'll even say underrated from my standpoint because even I didn't give him probably the respect that he deserved it's it's nothing that jumps out to you but do you do know that lyol Joseph played 725 snaps last year which I get I think was actually nine short if I remember reading it correctly n short of his career that like best in his career that he's done on an annual basis but still even in that 62 tackles 14 quarterback pressures three tackles for a loss and two quarterback hits now it may not seem like a lot because again we have to think it's a completely different defense and the Chargers never blitzed and they were weak against the run and whatever you want to say but still for a guy at that position that's still good production you'd want to see could you have seen more absolutely but for an anchor for a defensive line for this team that had so many moving Parts throughout it and just needing that one person to step up and stay consistent lindol Joseph was on that short list and you heard Fernando talk about it on our last episode where he said like there's a lot he did a lot of the Dirty Work that you don't necessarily see in the stat sheet where he'll be the one kind of coming in behind the scenes Shoring up tackles be the one kind of cleaning up behind the line of scrimmage like you saw a lot of effort a lot of motor from a lindal Joseph and it's really good and important to see that from the interior like you see a lot of that happen with outside linebackers defensive ends safeties all kind of stuff but when you have a defensive lineman who is that big who is still kind of coming at it from the backside it's a it's a really important piece for a defense that needs to be able to tackle and finish Lyal Joseph is one of those like immovable objects where he's not going to be the one flying up you know attacking the quarterback and getting all kinds of sack numbers but he's going to be the one that's going to be the right place right time for the most part and you're not going to be able to move him off of his point very often without double teams and I would love it if folks double team Lyal Joseph because that just means more room for the other guys on our defensive line I think Lal Joseph is clearly I don't want to say clearly but I think is going to be starting off kind of the what the nose tackle one in this defense yep I he'll go back to his traditional nose tackle spot and and GI Smith I he has kind of an interesting the defensive line coach he has an interesting group of guys because he has a lot of different players he can play and kind of deploy them for different reasons so like linval Joseph is one of a kind in this defense and you'll notice as we go through these there's a ton of other guys that have different kind of specs kind of position types archetypes if you will that Brandon Staley and this defensive line coach can use when they want yeah absolutely um and it's interesting from lindvall Joseph's perspective because I look at the measurables of him and especially with this move to a 34 it's been a long time since the charters have had that dominating presence in the middle go all the way back jabal Williams you want a more athletic version of Jamal Williams see linval Joseph and it's insane when you say about a guy who's 6'4 and 323 pounds but forget all that dude if you watch film of him last year the guy's chasing down people the guy is going sideline to sideline still to follow the ball and make a play this is the more athletic version of Jamal Williams and in a 34 defense which I know even during his time in Minnesota what I think I believe it was more for his duration it was more 4-3 at that time um I think that this is going to be a great move for him because of his size and now you're actually going to get an opportunity to have the likes of Justin Jones and Jerry Tillery all three of these guys playing on the field at the same time something that we have not gotten a chance to see from them yet and I think it's going to benefit all parties now that's interesting to say that so I know it technically to three four front but your front would be what like Joseph your in your eyes tiller yeah which I mean Tillery obviously is going to be the wild card because I sure especially from things that I've read you could they're still gonna find a way to use him on the edge and mix him up but yeah ideally what you're GNA see is you're G to see Joseph in the middle and you probably see tiller on the right of him and then uh Justin Jones on the left got it and then you'd have Bosa and nosu on their end got it okay now M moving on to Tillery for a sec who I think do both of us agree that's probably nose tackle two or inter defensive line number two you you you know you probably put I mean what's labeled as yeah the defensive end you know that's probably where he's going to get his bread and butter um as far as just his Downs goes but that's it's a very interesting situation that he's in because I again say what you will about his his season last year and has he lived up to First expectations thus far in his first two years the short answer is no um do I think that he's grown since his first year even though last year wasn't amazing yes I do as Fernando said last week you know you never like to necessarily badmouth the coaching but I don't even think that he was utilized as properly as he should have been last year either um you know it's kind of a double-edged short does he play aggressive yes does it get him in trouble also yes I think he had eight penalties last year and three of them were personal fouls for 15 yards you know you can't have that so you you have to shore those type of mistakes up um here's the quote that I found from Brandon Staley that he said about said about him I think this was back in May uh but Brandon Staley loves what he sees from tiller obviously from a guy who's his size and moves the way he does he needs to do a lot better job in the running game again when he was at Notre Dame that wasn't that wasn't what he was known for he was known for his pass rushing abilities but Staley's plan is to make him more of a complete player but this is what Staley had to say quote he's going to give us the best advantage in it um where he's going to give us the biggest advantages in interior pass rush and but we feel like this guy's got a chance to be a complete player this guy's got a lot uh lot more tough physical and rugged in the r game than I was expecting so I think that the plans that he has to mold for him and again that's why I say I think still think you're going to see some of these you know these hybrid defensive fronts that Staley will still throw in there from time to time where you know hey you know surpris you there's a six seven guy that's out on the edge you know come in for you know a third down play and give Joey brosa a breather every now and again but uh I think that their plan is if you're talking about one guy that may actually one of the next two guys that we're going to be talking about that's really going to benefit and probably get the same type of um Next Step that we saw from Leonard Floyd when he was with the rims with Brandon Staley coaching the defense look the Tillery I think that I think Staley's plan for him is is to finally take that next step and this this is the year that uh he's looking to have him finally kind you know kind of complete that mold that we were all hoping for the the one thing that I harp on with tiller is you know last year especially he he came out burst on the scene I think it was week one or week two where it was like oh here he goes and he was kind of one of those players to watch where you think he's going to be one of those like take the next step in 2020 the one thing if you go back and watch there were so many I want to say a dozen times where he's great quarterback pressure gets the hand but just can't finish and I think if there's one thing and this is where I'm so grateful to have Brandon Staley at the helm even with Hill everyone kind of talking about like the little things and going back to basics if he is just able to finish where he already was last year and just finished the play he's going to be remarkable this year and I think that's where coaching is going to help him a lot I think he's going to he has the potential I don't want to get crazy he has the potential to do very well in this type of Defense because he has that Swiss army knife physique as a defensive lineman where he has that tweener he could be defensive end be defensive tackle he's tall he's lengthy but he's also pretty stocky so I have a lot I'm I'm really high on what Tillery can bring this year specifically in this defense and I don't know which one of those like archetypes is more important or more valuable to Ronaldo Hill and Company like is it that immovable object nose tackle or is it that Swiss knife type or is it both like it might be both that might be the easy answer but I look at kind of Aaron Donald and he's kind of I mean he's a wild card Strat yeah yeah you're not gonna get him but if you had to put him in one of those categories I feel like he's more of the Swiss army knife type and that leans me more towards the Tillery type yeah yeah I mean that's what we would like to see Tillery being I think that's what Staley's alluding to in this quote here again we want to make him more of a complete player has tiller been good against the Run no he hasn't uh last year he ended up with I think it was 14 quarterback hits going back to what you were talking about Dan you know getting to the quarterback that was second behind Joey Bosa say what you will about how much the Chargers actually blitzed or pressured quarterbacks last year that's irrelevant it still ended up that he was second on the team in the pressure so it is what it is but um yeah I mean not comparing Jerry Tillery to Aaron Donald but I get what you're saying in that mold of what you would like to see him being if you can make him a better pass rusher as Staley did with Leonard Floyd but you can also round out the fundamentals that you need in the Run game you can get to a very productive defensive end that you need for a 34 system and and like I said I think it will benefit him playing alongside lynville Joseph and then of course having Jared Jones on the other side of that have I mean just imagine this for a second just look at from the center of the defensive line and then go to go to Bosa side imagine just being someone that's standing there and looking at lindol Joseph Jerry Tillery and then Joey Bosa God I mean just that side alone is intimidating to see guys that are that big and coming after you but again it's it's all about refinement it's all about rounding out your game and this is what we would hope that both Staley and Ronaldo Hill are gonna focus on and from this quote here it looks like that is one of the points of emphasis that Staley's looking for if if we could just get Tillery to finish where he started last year and to get some of that technique back cut down the penalties down the bone head plays the little things like there's you know I think arguably I think you've said this before too Jake I think arguably inter defensive line is one of the quote unquote like weaknesses or areas of concern for this defense if and that's why is because we don't know and we've seen it happen before where it's just open the floodgates five six yards a pick like it if we can get this part done like if we can Shore up to where we have let's just call it above average into defensive line this defense has the chance to be something special yeah and again I I mainly say that I'm worried about it because tell me tell me the last time that the Chargers had a a dominant run defense like a good one where you felt like you could rely on those guys to take yeah take away that facet of the game and force the quarterback to beat you and don't worry I'll wait wait it's it's so sad it's look we we talked about this during the schedule release show when we did this when the schedule was first come out just just look at this through remember the first six weeks of the Year Washington Antonio Gibson you don't think that Ron Rivera is gonna want to run the ball down our throat in that game then that your second game is against Dallas okay Zeke Elliott looking for a Redemption year for you already know that the Chiefs are going to do it in week three and Reed still going to want to keep some balance uh with as good as Patrick Mahomes is going to be playing you play the Raiders okay that's a little bit heay then you get the Browns and you get the Ravens and you get the Patriots all three and you get the Bengals I mean it's like all of them we're going up against Aram Le probably the best running back in football all season all all I mean there's there's a lot of running backs that the Chargers go against saquon Barkley at some point in the year you know it's it's G to be rough sledding if this run defense can't get shorted up and it needs to get up quickly and if the run if the Run games of the opposition is able to uh you know get started and get started early hold your breath at the beginning of the Season hold your breath now let's jump to Justin Jones because I think it's a good comparison that you made Dan when you were talking about Jerry Tillery being more of that versatile Swiss army knife a guy you know who's good at the pass rush needs a little bit of work in the Run game Justin Jones is the complete opposite of that his work against the run is Stout but he registered his first career sack just this past year and he's head well I mean I think it's a variety of think different things I think that when you know when he came on with his team Gus Bradley was still the defensive coordinator I I think you knew what you got what you had from Justin Jones um you know didn't put put up huge stats as far as rushing the passer in college was always has always been a good run Defender but however you may have thought about that and he's been in and out you know he has succumb to injuries over the last couple couple of years nothing that's been for you know long stretches of periods of time maybe two years ago if I remember correctly um but yeah I I think it's more of just utilization and I again I think this is going to be another potential uh player to watch for to take kind of that Leonard Floyd lead okay like we have and you know what Brandon Staley's already talked about and we've heard this from all the other players where they're going to put your guys in the best position to win now does that mean that we're gonna play a defense to a strength that's going to be of every individual player I would hope so so for Justin Jones if Brandon Staley is looking at this and obviously I'm sure he has uh you look at what Justin Jones's strength is and it's the Run game do I think that there's still potential to unlock him as a pass rusher because of the athletic ability that he possesses yes I do it'd be nice to see that um when I actually read that stat earlier that he got his first career sacked this passes I was like really that that was it okay um but this is another one that's interesting and especially for Justin Jones because now this is his final year in the as a contract in the Chargers so his days in the powder blue and yellow could be numbered so is this going to be the year that he is able to step up and whether it's for the Chargers or another team make a case to be paid after this season and isn't it it's really interesting too you know one of the things Fernando talks about on the last episode we said like one of the differences with this team this year with the coaching staff is like the energy that this that the players have towards the coaching and kind of where they're heading and they talk about you know Joey Bosa is so excited they get him excited like that says something it's I don't know about you but like when I hear contract year like especially for defensive players I can't think of a better Coach to bring into your team to help you on a contract year than the coaching staff that has come in yeah and so like if if I'm if I'm Justin Jones and I'm trying to get paid like who else would you rather what other coach would you want to get you ready for that M so like him we'll talk about chenu another episode there's a lot of guys on defense that are like pumped to have this as kind of the Year Brandon Staley there's a reason why everyone's excited um Justin Jones is going to have an impact on this team now will I be surprised if he has a larger impact than the other two we mentioned before yeah but I think a lot of his impact comes without looking at the the statistics like he's he's kind of just the one that kind of he's always lined up under Center like he's kind of plugging in gaps for other people to make plays and so in my eyes if you're hearing and I wouldn't be surprised this year and Beyond if we have him for that long you hear Justin Jones's name more because I think Brandon Staley's types of defenses you see more contributions from money many more players than just the superstars like you see people out of nowhere they're oh my gosh I can't believe John Johnson and all these other players leard Floyd I mean had a miraculous Year and that wasn't just because they were a great player I mean sure it helped but Brandon Staley brings out the best in a lot of players to where it's not a surprise when you see you know five six seven guys from the defensive line all having at least you know four or five sacks yeah I I like what said as far as the uh the stats factor or even lack thereof with Justin Jones that's not the most important thing when it comes to his game um two years ago when he only played 12 games that year I I remember anybody that you talked to or anybody that you heard when it came to the Chargers struggles on defense that year a lot of them went to the fact that Justin Jones wasn't playing and because everybody knew how vital he was to to as being a run Defender for that team and when he wasn't playing the run defense was suffering was it solely his fault absolutely not but you need a key cog like that to be a rotational piece to try to shore up a leaky run defense and they understand that and that's why that's that's what he's known for he's he's not known for getting the quarterback hits and obviously as I just said a few minutes ago he's not known for getting the sacks he's gonna do the Dirty Work he's going to do the Dirty Work that not a lot of people are going to pay attention to but when he's not on the field you're going to recognize it more than anything now the next person we're gonna talk about I'm gonna I'm gonna put you the spot here for a sec not where we start the season but let's go week 18 who do you see as the next position or the next in line so I guess it' be in the depth chart what four of all the players we're talking about who is going to that by the end of the season Christian Covington yeah Christian um so as we all know D Damien Square was leted go this this year he went elsewhere I Christian Covington was brought in as the Daman Damon Square replacement um if you want to talk about how you know especially last year lynval Joseph is just built you know is just a what do they call him there was a name for him last year Dan I can't remember refrigerator all kind a refrigerator or like a variation of a tank that they put like a cool yeah something like that if Lind ball Joseph is that then Christian cumington is like his little cousin big the way that that he's built he is stacked and this is more of the reason why this is the Damon Square replacement um again going back to the aspects of the running game a rotational piece his best I mean he's I viously he's had previous stance with the Texans with the Dallas Cowboys with the Denver Broncos and short stin with the the Bengals those last three teams those all came in the last two years but where he had his most success when he was in Houston was in a three4 defensive front hey there you go that's nice to see and for a guy that plays with a with a lot of underrated power and strength you see some of the clips that you can find on on Twitter when he's making plays out out there and there is even there I mean he's winning with with his power so it's nice to to have a guy like that where it's it doesn't always have to be finesse technique and getting around one guy you know just by just by using a move it's nice to see someone that's just got that power to say you're in front of me and I'm gonna get past you by just knocking you on your ass I I I love Christian cumington because one of the things that I've noticed um it seems as though this coaching staff and Tom Tesco have been very specific with going after like different archetypes so you you don't have a lot of guys who all do the same thing like when you look at Christian cumington he has weirdly long arms like to his Advantage his arms are crazy long and you watch it you're like I I'm not like once once you're in front of him like you're kind of stuck uh he thick you're not really moving him away I think his arms are his competitive advantage in my opinion um like you said big boy he's what 300 pounds he's certainly not as tall as some the other linan we have but I think that is used to his Advantage because I think that kind of catches people off guard when he's just stacking bricks in front of them yeah um I'm interested to see to hear from your perspective though so like you look at a Christian cumington and you go down the list of some of the other guys that are on this depth chart we'll we'll get into but you see him above a a foko and a Bren by the end of the season yeah yeah I do and I I say that for you know a few obvious reasons obviously just experience um you know for as many years as he's been in the league he obviously has that advantage over the rest of the guys but uh I think he was brought in for a reason and I think that this was a very low key free agent move that was after you know it was after the draft it was the early part of May that this was done and um this may be one of the more underrated moves that not a lot of people are paying attention to and especially for a position group like this that you have needed depth not just now but I mean you've needed depth along this line for a little while a little while even with lindol Joseph coming in in for the 2020 season uh there were still some question marks to be had as far as who was behind him and who was going to step up um you know and unfortunately we didn't get that and unfortunately injuries started to take their toll on on this defensive unit as well so you really need a collection of guys to step up if you're going to see this particular position group um take the next leap because yeah it's nice to have your starters and Joseph and Jones and Tiller and thinking about those three guys standing right in the middle of your defensive line but there's got to be some other ones there has to be some other ones even if it's just one give me one and if it's if you know got to my head right now short list if I'm looking at the the talent on this team I I'll I'll say the odds go to comington in this circumstance well honestly when I watch his tape and I see and I look at his stat lines versus this tape it screams to me that it's almost like an underutilization issue than it is like a talent issue he seems like he has the traits to do much more than his stat lines showcase and so I'm I'm of all the defensive line I feel like he has the one that could have the largest variance of wow I was not expecting that that kind of goes to your point of like that might be one of the more underrated undervalued like wow didn't realize how much an impact he would bring um so moving on to the next one before we go any further this episode also we got to pay the dues episode also brought to you by Garrison Brothers amazing Distillery out of Texas they have amazing brown stuff uh I think there's a what's the honey one called yep what's the honey one honeydew honeydew yes um we you and I both have to try these at some point we've got like a case of them we got to figure out how we're gonna get through all of them check them out Garris take some time but trust me I'll enjoy every minute of it well hopefully the season goes well because if it doesn't it might take a lot less time than we thought yeah if the season doesn't go well if those if those first four games are I may be able to blow past those in a month if if the beginning of the season goes goes bad yeah so yeah so if you could check them out we have a link in our description where you can go directly to them you can also find them at like BevMo Total Wine and Spirits uh most grocery stores have them they're actually really really good I'm surprised that they are as inexpensive relatively as some of their counterparts who go for far far far far far more than that Garrison Brothers check him out whiskey bourbon small batch you name it highly recommend so Covington is your guy number four are you going foko as number five you know what's interesting because I think that this when you really look at the guys from this point of the list on I'll start and yeah we'll start with foka this this is still the position that I say let's just say for example if the Chargers only end up keeping five interior interior alignment which is realistic I'd say if you ask me today who wins on that yes I'll say that that's foko but if you ask me two months from now that answer could change because I think that while he may have a lock on that position right now I still think that that's the most fluid position that could fluctuate by the time week one rolls around I know foko is a uh is a favorite of um fa favorite of Fernando he spoke on that last week uh Braden foko was an undrafted free agent uh last year obviously became a fan favorite from from his dance on Hard Knox which was fantastic yes very glad that he ended up making the team was a great story that they they looked into him with him and his family um and just a great follow on Twitter D I'm not sure if you caught this this was actually a tweet I think it was earlier today maybe just a short five five hours ago but brenon foko tweeted this and he said where is it some of the best advice that I've ever gotten is buy you you when you order a Big Mac tell them that you want quarter pound Patties on the Big Mac it's like a life like for the people like myself who like to get my double cheeseburger and fries then I take the fries and I put them on the burger and I put you know the hot uh the hot mustard or the honey mustard on it and then I eat it this to me is like another life hack that Braden foko just found out ask for Quarter Pounder Patties on the Big Mac you can guarantee I'm going to do that I am going to do that but there is one thing that hoko also put out on Twitter today that I am passionately against and that was yes not happy with it he went out and said this blasphemy you ready for this sure he said you're normal you normal or you put pineapple on your P ah I saw this and you are in the who do you stand with oh I stand firmly with the pineapple on the pizza people you cannot tell me pineapple does not taste delicious on pizza and I can go into all different Cuisines that pineapple can go on but Braden you are wrong pineapple is incredible on Pizza I'm gonna leave it there so I will take his advice on the quarter pounder Big Mac Fiasco but the pineapple foko uhuh foko I like it um but yes to me this is where again you know foko undrafted free agent out of uh out of LSU when he came out of college and good production that he put up in college um you know you didn't really get a chance to see him play uh a lot last year at one point of the year I think at early point of the year I think he was even waved for a short period of time before he was ultimately signed back onto the team um but he didn't get he really didn't get a chance to do too much uh do I think that he's going to make this giant leap in his position and with the talent in front of him no I don't see that happening do I think that his skill set especially in this type of a scheme with these type of head coaches is gonna benefit him for the long run and give him a leg up 100% I do foko I think is I don't think there's a concern for me that he makes a team I think he's clearly I think he's in um I really like his potential in terms of he just seems very quick for defensive line he has a really good first step I think he shoots the Gap better than the majority of our defensive line depth um I mean a little raw but I think that he has potential and I think that's what coaching staff is going to see out of him I like BR Fogo I think he's a great depth piece to your point um it I think you're right though at this point I mean let's let's just be frank do you think that they are going to be more than will there be another defensive line on the interior on this team other than the ones we've already discussed well it's one of two things either you keep five and the first five that we just talked about is it so Covington Jones Joseph foko and Tillery or like I said I still believe that while I give foko the edge up right now he still is in that to me that's the hot seat spot because there's about five other guys that I could see that could possibly make a surprise push for his role or you keep six defensive alignment on the interior which I doubt happens because then all you're doing is weakening your other possible positions as far as being being able to keep Talent there on the defense um so I think that they would stay with five now let's just say we have that surprise thing happened you go through the list a little little bit here with the remaining players that we have we're now talking about Cortez Bren who's now going into his third year being of this team former seventh round pick uh TJ Smith Willie yarby who was just recently signed uh formerly played out of Wake Forest and or was he was he I think he was in I think he was in the oh it was the arena league um so apologies for my forgetfulness for that moment in time you are forgiven you are forgiven Jake you have you have TJ Smith who not a lot of people know about on this team I think again that's just a rotational depth piece and a camp body at this point in time and then you have the two undrafted free agents uh that were taken this year and Jared goldwire or Jared goldwire and Forest Merill and you're talking about two guys especially physically that are just on opposite ends of the spectrum jarro gowi big body defensive tackle 6635 uh out of Louisville the stats that he put up I think could have been better I think for as big as he is I don't think that the stats match up what you would expect a guy like that to play on but it's an intriguing option if you're talking about the possibilities of getting the fifth spot on this interior defensive line now Forest Merill I love what I see from forest Merill especially when watching him on film if Forest Merill was born with three Ines of more height and about five in more of arm length you'd probably be talking about Forest being taken anywhere from rounds four to six and not go undrafted I love the quote that Lance zerine calls him he calls him a Squatty little door jam is what Lance zerline called him which is just fantastic and it's true too when you go back and you watch his film um for his career he finished with 117 tackles 17 and a half tackles for a loss in eight sacks he's just a bowling ball of a human being and again where he stands right now is six foot six foot 322 pounds he's a big Bo pretty which is small it's short for defensive line but it's also pretty stocky it's the odds are against you succeeding when you have that lack of dep but it reminds me a lot of Puna Ford Who currently plays for the Seattle Seahawks who I loved coming out of the draft that year and Puna Ford is only 5'11 people it is plausible it can happen so if I was to say one guy that I would love to see give foko a run for his money even if he ends up still getting the job out of these remaining Five Guys again I I always gravitate towards the bigger type of a guys especially in a three4 type of scheme but if it's for me God I love Forest Merill I'm pulling for Forest Merill to show to show me something in Camp this year I want to see the bowling ball wreck somebody I oh I don't know if I want him or Jared goldwire th those are probably the two that which makes sense and normally I would be right there with you Dan because that size is just you know you can't teach that you can't teach that size that's just other god-given exactly I think he's I think he's the only other player on this roster who is that big and so I think it's a good death piece I think it's like an insurance policy potentially um some kind of leaning towards goldwire but again at this point like we're talking the last position if it's there now could they do something interesting and they put like I don't know tiller has a defensive end technically like maybe but I doubt it um this is going to be interesting in the sense that I think the defensive line interior wise is probably going to be one of the most important components of this defense in terms of what keeps it from getting to its potential we've seen it so many times as we're kind of wrapping up this show we've seen it so many times where the Chargers have the offense on the ropes it's third and eight third and three third and five it doesn't really even matter and chargers are just getting gashed on the inside first after first on a first down like we just can't stop that and sometimes we get lucky and the other team decides not to throw it cool or not to run it and throw it and then inly pass whatever but if we can hold our own on the inside on this defensive line and let a Bren Staley Le secondary linebacking core kind of get after it like that is what gets me excited like if if we can get the same lynval Joseph if we can get more polished Jerry Tillery but just those two alone if those two guys can stay as advertised like that has the potential to be special and you add in Justin Jones who he will be great as your defensive lineman for stopping the run like you see how there are different deployments all these players provid like specific traits and as we go into the other position battles you'll notice kind of the same Trend where there are guys that have been brought in for like a specific task you don't have much you don't have much overlap so I think that's what gets me excited about this interior defensive line Jake is that there isn't much overlap and so when you look at like the the position battles it's less about who does the same thing better but it's more about what traits do you want more on your defensive line so maybe to kind of close out for you like for what do you foresee as like the gauge for success for the interior defensive line so like I guess the question would be fast forward week 18 Chargers defense did blank because the defensive line held up see now it's going to be interesting because now you're talking about two defensive schemes if we're just comparing 2020 to what we assume that we're going to see in 2021 one do I think that play there's going to be players that are playing more of a natural position of what they should have been playing all along yes do I think they're going to be better utilized in this scheme 100% now if you want to just look at barometer wise does the running game solely rely on just this one position group no it doesn't but it's probably the it's definitely the first line of defense when it comes to the Run game and for Tex purposes the Chargers last year was was giving up 119 yards rushing per game 119 which amazingly I know that that sounds bad but that was only 17th worst in the league 17th average hey you weren't Houston which was giving up a hell of a lot more than that so I guess you could say you know grass is greener on that side whichever way you want to look at it at least you're not Houston's defense and what you gave up last year that's one way ofing at it but yeah if you're to give me the barometer I would like to see this run defense be in the top 10 I think that's a fair ask of what we're seeing here uh Jerry Tillery I want to see that type of progression for him being more consistent being more of that complete player with Justin Jones I'd like to see him get some of these opportunities to get after the quarterback man you it's I I know that the dude is good at what he does in the Run game and that's just fine keep doing you but give this man a shot give him a release give him something give him give him you know give him a chance to run a 10 yard Sprint and hit a quarterback in the back field give me some please uh it's not it's nothing huge but I think just collectively as a unit you need to shore the Run game up and it's going to take more than the the the three starters that we have on this team in tiller Joseph and Jones it's going to um collectively you're going to have to have the fourth and the fifth guy step up you know Damon Square for as long as he was with this team he was a very nice rotational piece yeah I was surprised to let him go actually yeah do I think that we can get that same type of production with Covington yeah I do I do I think that that's I think that's very possible so give me that improving the Run game which again we're not talking that much improvement that needs to be done just be better than you were last year I guess that's the best way that I could say it and the measurement is literally if we're talking about how bad the Run game was like Hey you gave me you finished at a D+ you know hey give me a B minus it's not it's not really not that big of a jump I'm not asking for A+ because there's other aspects of this defense that's going to win and there's other players in this defense that's going to help out in the running game but if we're just talking this give me a B minus average and I think that that will that will collectively make this defense better I I I think the the player to watch for on this entire defensive line and I think the one that will provide the biggest opportunity for this defens line to be special is Jared tillary if he can like cuz he's talent-wise he's there like go back and watch the tape last year he was right where he was supposed to be and he just didn't finish it was all mental he didn't have the right technique boneheaded penalties offside like you saw a lot like roughing the passers and some weird like unsportsman like conduct like if he just finishes the right technique take away the bonehead of plays give him the exact same opportunities as last year I think you would double his sacks like he's that good and so when you look at kind of like the Leonard Floyd role like Jerry Tillery kind of has that I know everybody talked about K Kyer R everybody talked about like Shu every coming in like I really think that like a Chris rump slash Jerry till like they're very similar in body types those are the two that I think are going to be the most like a Leonard Floyd yeah yeah absolutely and again you're talking about two guys that are just different on what they do best MH tillary in the pass rush Jones in the Run game can both of these guys become more complete players and like you said Dan I I think in this coaching staff and under them they definitely have that potential to do so they want to get paid and this is the year to do it especially for Justin Jones so that's going to do it I believe for the defensive line breakdown for position battles yeah I'm sick of talking to you I'm done okay you're done cool me too I'm SI look at your ugly mug sorry I'm talking myself because my El mug is much much worse than yours and I'm glad you're staying hydrated Jake that's important well I was staying hydrated with uh you know with Brewery X plenty this this week um go time to take a break did you go with the slap and tickle or did you go with one of the seltzers what were we going with I went with the Seltzer actually I was I think I knocked back three of the Jungle juices yesterday and that was um that was good I ran out of the painkillers I finished those I think I still have some X on the beaches that are still left in there but jungle juice is what I still have the majority of that's in there okay that Jungle Juice stuff is no joke what is it 10% 10% dude you don't need much no it'll get to you jeez yeah three of them good for you sir all right you're happy well I think that's going to do it for this episode of chargers Unleashed uh for those who are coming in for the first time thank you you can find us on Twitter at lacore unleash myself Chargers Homer my lovely co-host Jake T Hefner on Twitter for Jake uh find us on YouTube you're lovely I'm giv it to you you deserve it continue you can find us talking you can find us on Twitter on Instagram on Facebook also you could subscribe on YouTube as well if you feel we deserve a review feel free to give us one on Apple podcast you name it um Jake this is is fun we have what like three four weeks until we get to do like Chargers like mini cams we get to actually go to some of those potentially 29 days in counting baby and we actually get to go to the camp this I know in 76 officially 76 days until week one against the Washington football team It's Gonna Fly by I know it's sometimes I feel like it's going slow but this is going to fly by and I cannot wait Jake thank you for being you I appreciate all that you bring to this and I appreciate all of the incredible hats that you wear every time we come on of the show it's the same hat always keeps me guessing I love it hat it's I just wear it a different direction dude it's back that's why it looks different it's the same hat all right for Jake Hefner Dan wus on here thank you so much for watching and listening and we will talk to you next time on Chargers Unleashed the Los Angeles Chargers select ran Slater Assante Samuel [Music] Jr St oh I'm strapping y'all boys that's intercepted picked off by Michael Davis explosion explosiveness from Heckler there's boy he blew that up didn't he it is picked off nir aderly 50/50 ball is 100% Mike Williams oena yosu and that will end it time to bold up