Ep. 25 - The Derwin James Effect | Chargers Training Camp Position Battles Continued: Safeties

[Music] spring it on with 40 to 70% off almost everything at gapfactory and gapfactory.com matching styles for the family or on sale too shop it all through April 12th spring it on with 40 to 70% off almost everything at gapfactory and gapfactory.com matching styles for the family are on sale too shop it all through April 12th [Music] you you welcome to another edition of chargers unleash Jake efner and Dan walkenstein here with you from the LA football network Today's show of course is being brought to you by Charger bolt Family brewery X and manscape make sure to use the promo code lab20 to get 20% off your next purchase go to manscape.com for more details if you're joining us on YouTube you make sure to like And subscribe to our Channel and of course if you're taking us in over the podcast Venture you can find us on Apple iTunes Spotify or wherever you choose to digest your weekly podcast Dan another training camp positional battle is on the docket for today this is like probably the most as far as when you ask anybody and we've talked about this the level of excitement who are you most excited to see play this year and why is it Derwin James the training cam battle is nothing but the safety position and this is an interesting one because much like it is with some of the positions we've talked about in the past beyond the starters it's kind of a big question mark that's a good way to put it yeah it's uh this is GNA be really fun episode because I think we're get to we get to talk about guys we really haven't talked about much so far this off season we all know about Derwin James your aderly we all have heard and seen stories of alohi Gilman who we drafted last year mark Webb we drafted Ben leuda we get to talk about today B deuca sorry Ben deuca did I say Ben Luda also get to talk about Ben Duca not to be confused with Ben Luda um a lot of different versatile type of players some of which could have some overlap personally I don't see all of these guys making the roster but we'll get into that in a sec um all of these guys are kind of led by coach Ansley and Ronaldo Hill like you mentioned everyone is so freaking excited and ready to see Derwin James back in pads I'm I don't think I've been more excited for a single player to make a outing that I have Duran James in I mean since I can remember I he's that good um I think there was a re there's a recent poll that came out that had him ranked as the ninth best safety about that I understand that he has been injured but I guarantee you no GM or coach in the NFL if you ask them to draft a quarterback given all sorry draft a safety given all of the safeties in the NFL eight are not going before him I understand if you don't want to be in the top three or maybe top five but nine that is inane so we're going to talk about position battles and safeties we're talk about each one of these guys where we see them fitting and maybe who doesn't make the cut if they don't but let's just kick this off Jake Duran James Brandon Staley Ronaldo hill we get to talk about star money strong safety intercept fumbles coverage I mean you name it Duran James is the Swiss army knife that every defensive coach dreams of when was like the last time that I mean I I I mean I know when it was obviously we're talking about 2018 here but can you remember just talking about a player think about any player for this Chargers team that you were this hyped up to see again and as long as 2020 has been for us in our daily lives think of the last time that we saw Derwin James play on the field and I'm not talking about the what three or four games that he ended up returning in in 2019 when he was still suff coming back from an injury not talking about that I'm talking about the 105 tackle 13 pass defended six quarterback hit three and 1 half seconds three interception rookie season I mean it feels like we haven't seen this guy in forever and truthfully we haven't but again when was the last time that you were this hyped up to see a guy return to the field remember what Twitter was like when when they just heard the news that Derwin James was fully cleared to to be doing practices and and OTAs and all that stuff remember how like rejoiceful Chargers Twitter was when that news came down I mean the hype is just insane and yes who is your favorite player to see play in 2021 and why is it Derwin James Derwin James You could argue is the most important part of this Chargers defense some could say Joey BOS I don't think that's an argument at all yeah I mean you look at how you look at how this defense performed uh without him versus with him and it's night and day um he is probably the MVP of this team he is the Bonafide leader and it's really remarkable how quickly he became a leader of this team on and off the field um Jake I don't know if you saw the he had a a thing with Shan marman where they were playing beer pong and answering q&as to each other as they were getting balls in the cups he is by far the most competitive person I have ever seen like literally calling his shots making up like it's insane but just seeing how much joy he gets in competing in General and Shan marman asked him like let's say you guys win the bowl this year like who's going to be the most hyped on offense defense offense you ped he picked Keenan Allen on defense he thought about for second he's like oh it's probably gonna be me it's probably gonna be me Duran James is such a freak athlete and he is the lifeblood of this defense and it's interesting especially for a defense and a coach like Bren Staley his role is going to be critical and he is going to be showcased so much and he is probably if not the main reason definitely top three why Brandon Staley took this job yeah I I mean you could argue there's a number of reasons that Brandon Staley took his job but if Derwin James isn't in one of them I think uh I think he's I think he's lying yeah so I mean uh God Dam to me there is no argument Derwin James is the most critical piece to this defense and it shows the common denominator for this defense was Derwin James hasn't played barely played over the past two seasons and it was like Gus Bradley lost a Cadillac converter to a car and couldn't figure out how to start the damn thing it just it didn't it didn't feel like it worked properly without him and again that's a variety of different things whether it's Personnel whether it's coaching schemes not being able to adapt to a certain player going out what whatever but the common denominator to me when you look at the stats on how this defense suffered compared to how this defense thrived when he was in the lineup in 2018 there is no argument there is no argument to that Joey Bosa okay you know as dominant as a pass rusher as he is you know you could you could hope that you would get production of at the time a Melvin Ingram or an enen nuosu or any other rusher that we had yes he's the best rusher on this team no doubt about it but you could always hope that you could get something out of him if or out of out of who was playing across from if Joey wasn't on the field you can't D do that with Derwin James there is nobody on this roster right now that could step in to his role and fill that level of an impact if he is not on the field probably one of the most obvious statements I'm going to say in the history of chargers Unleashed Derwin James is going to be a starting strong safety no questions sass we could just pencil that in no need to talk about it no no no and again so and just to kind of quick overview there's strong safety and there's free safety now for folks who are kind of questioning what the differences we'll talk about it in a sec but in short strong safety imagine them being stronger guys more in the Box closer to line scrimmage free safeties are more rangy more lengthy more athletic and usually kind of on the back side of plays used as kind of like your safety valve your last line of defense usually plays further from the line of scrimmage deran James again one of the freaks who can actually probably pay play both but if he wanted to get get technical he would be starting strong safety and then the next guy we're going to talk about Nazir aderly I believe is going to be the starting free safety if we started tomorrow as excited as we were about Derwin James one of the things we talked about before Daniel Jeremiah said it as soon as Nazir Adalie was drafted by the Chargers that he was the perfect pairing for Derwin James in the safety position unfortunately we haven't gotten to see it literally once so um hopefully we get to see that now and the reason for that perfect pairing Nazir aderly if there's one thing you could say about him he is a ball Hawk now he went through a little bit of growing pains last year you know he took some bad angles so to speak he also was injured if you haven't got a chance to listen to his episode where we actually got to interview nir aderly on charges Unleashed go and check it out he is healthy now he has a much much better coaching staff I think the scheme fits him more lets him play to his abilities I don't think he was able to do what he did best last year I am super bullish on air adly I think both of us have been since we drafted him I don't want to be the Chargers Homer like always but this safety Squad like literally one through three four like really has a chance to be special and we'll get into some of the other guys in a bit but neir aderly is so complimentary to Derwin James because he he can go sine to sideline in a hurry and those instincts are on point so as long as he gets that coaching and is healthy I think folks are going to get a rude awakening especially the folks who had kind of given up on a aderly ladies and gentlemen let me introduce to you the president of the nasier aderly fan club Mr Dan wolkenstein how about that for a hybrant well done Dan very nice and I'm not far behind you I was one of the individuals that was we've been waiting for this for 2 years we didn't get a chance to see it for the obvious injury reasons Derwin being out even no adly had his share of inj injuries during his his first season and then last year we had Derwin go out just before the start of the season so we didn't get any of that if I could say what's one of the biggest things that I'm anticipating for the 2021 season seeing the pairing pairing of Derwin James and Naser aderly is at the top of the list it really is because I would love to see what a dynamic one-w punch of these two guys that play both of their respective safety positions so well can do for this defense and there's been so much rotation especially when you have a player like Derwin James and when you solidify that strong safety spot and then when you see that Beyond nasly or even before Nas adly was even here come on we were we dabbled a little bit with Jala play free safety for crying out that's how depleted that's how depleted our our safety position was you dabbled with Jala at the free safety position for just a little bit I mean come on we don't need to we don't need to go down that road again no please don't these two positions need to be fixtures and Staples of this defense and um I don't know if you heard heard this Dan but uh uh it was Tyler Sullivan from CBS Sports has called his shot essentially and has picked nasier aderly as his under under the radar pler for the Chargers who could potentially have that breakout year for 2021 and he went into a whole Spiel as far as you know obviously the injuries how Gus Bradley utilized him wasn't the best and this kind of goes into what nasier had said to us when we had him on the show just be he feels that in this defensive scheme that he could be more of himself much like what he was doing at Delaware being able to play his type of football the way that he wants to and uh and he has that versatility to do it and if you're talking about Bren and Staley and um and Coach Hill and as far as how they're going to utilize him if you can use a versatile weapon like Derwin James the way that he was used in 2018 aderly has maybe not to the same degree but he has enough versatility that you can move him down in the Box have him in on blitzes a lot more um as you mentioned in the ear show the money backer position at times you could put Nasi aderly in these positions and have him Thrive if you can do it well with a coaching staff that could could unlock the potential that he possibly has going into year three as we're sitting here talking about this I'm just getting like kind of Giddy and I'm having to like compose myself because like this is what we have been waiting three years for and I cannot wait I am so hyped to see adly healthy and with a coaching staff and a scheme that is going to play to his strengths now Jake you mentioned the term star and and money which for those who don't know star is kind of like that um I don't know how it's like a a nickel SL Corner safety hybrid where they can play both safety but they're also bulky where they can be up and against the Run they can cover they can also tackle that's kind of that star role and it really takes someone who is at athletic and is somebody that can kind of um do multiple things at once so you don't really know what he's going to be doing for you the guy out of Georgia Mark web is a star type of player star in quotes not star player like deran James um alohi Gilman I think is also in that category and I think Ben DeLuca a bit which we'll talk about a little bit is also kind of in that category so not as much so in my opinion but do you want to go Mark Weber or Lohi Gilman next surprise me all right let's go let's go let's go older first let's do alohi Gilman so alohi Gilman is kind of that tweener and we talked to to Chris Harry uh previously and we talked about potentially you know Kaiser white kind of playing that hybrid role alohi Gilman is kind of that similar role where he can play he's kind of in that tweener linebacker safety role and that's kind of what he did when he was in college Notre Dame as well um he we saw a little bit of him in 2020 but not much alohi Gilman is kind of like the underbelly I don't necessarily think that he is going to be one that's going to be pushing for a starting job but I think he is someone that will be helping both on special teams as well as potentially as kind of a secondary depth piece do you foresee any scenario in which alohi Gilman is safety to no and I'm saying that not because of his playing ability I'm saying it because I'm not speaking it into existence the only two safeties that should be on the field are Derwin James and nerly Case Closed don't ask me now what about okay so I'm saying safety too in terms of strong safety so if I I get what you're say fre yeah don't put that out into the universe you know what I mean behind behind either Derwin or Nazir who is the next in line do you think you know this is tough this is tough because yeah you have a lohy Gilman who brings value on special teams obviously he's been with the team longer one year longer than Mark web um you know the there wasn't he he the good thing for aloy Gilman I'll say this is that he's being thrust into an opportunity here when you go back and you look at this what this safety depth chart looked like last year before the Derwin James injur injury you were talking about Derwin James NS atly and then it was rayan Jenkins and obviously rayan Jenkins played here's fair share of time stepped in for Derwin James for the entirety of the 2020 season got paid and went to Jacksonville actually and he played quite well deserved the money good for him now alohi Gilman is essentially being elevated he has a season under his belt he's going to have a full training camp yes he's a little bit more of that tweener to me it's hard to put where you'd exactly say what the ceiling is for alohia Gilman because the the expectations aren't Skyhigh I don't think that there's anything spectacular that were expecting to see from him maybe other than his contributions on special teams and obviously he'll he'll get some work uh most likely in the money backer role or being in certain sub packages um but you know where he's where I think that he's going to benefit from development is with this new coaching scheme if you can tell me that they're going to play him the S similar way that they did for him in college what he does best and you do that in a sparing fashion to give either Derwin or Nasir aderly just time to take a down off and breathe but if you say okay you can come off the field and for this play we're going to put alohi Gilman in a position to where he knows that he's going to benefit then I could see it being beneficial to him but it's again we're talking one play here one play there nothing from a long standpoint of starting unless we're talking about an unfortunate injury yeah I I in my opinion I think think his absolute ceiling would be if he could ever become somewhat similar to what Adrian Phillips was for us like that's a huge win like Adrian Phillips was never like the starting you know free safety strong safety but he was kind of like that tweener Swiss army knife that we use all the time and he was great for us before we went to New England I still wish we did not let him go fantastic for us on special teams as well yeah that's I think that's a great comparison Dan you give me the ceiling of Adrien Phillips I would accept that and I know that Brandon Staley has said throughout all of his press conferences that he's always excited obviously he's always excited when you name a player when you tell him about a player hey your seventh round pick this year you excited for him he's like yeah I'm really excited for him obviously he's gonna say excited for his for his starters but he did single out in an in an interview when I asked about him as far as it related to the safety position that he was really excited about alohi Gilman so whatever that possibly means whether that means that you're strengthening up the depth of this team or or you know how you can properly utilize him to make him succeed it's it's a win-win for alohi Gilman for the opportunity that he's getting here now I think we should I'm Gonna Save Mark Webb for last and the reason why is because I believe Ben Duca who probably most folks don't necessarily they may not have heard of him um in my opinion he is very similar and looked a lot like what alohi Gilman looked like Notre Dame uh for those who don't know Bend Luka fouryear starter also two-time team captain for I think UNC Charlotte I think they're actually the Charlotte 49ers um he was he went undrafted and I don't think he even went one hour before he got the call from the Chargers ended up signing as undrafted free agent uh LED his school all time in tackles and get this Jake he had do you he had nine fumbles forced in college like that's great for a safety uh really good instincts good smarts again it reminds me of alohi Gilman coming out of college kind of a spinning image to be honest very very productive and I'm sure you'll get into this for a second very productive very versatile but I think his athleticism is what's going to kind of set him back and and that was the same thing with alohi Gilman but I think Bendel Luca is more so yeah have you seen the uh the accolades and awards that Ben Duca has won over his college career I mean it reads like you know it it reads like someone who's had eight jobs in six years I mean it's just down the list man I mean he's definitely made a good reputation for himself during his time at Charlotte um and I kind of agree with you a little bit as far as the similarities that he looked like when we were talking about the difference between him and alohi Gilman when he was coming out of college but uh but yeah the athleticism is the biggest knock on Ben DeLuca I think where he wins is that he has a lot of the intangibles that you'd want from a safety as far as having those instincts knowing when to close knowing when to come down field those are those are the biggest things that really save face for his play but the athleticism that when you truly need it from a safety that you need to make a play that's where his biggest weakness is um and it's I found it interesting that you chose to go with him starting now and leaving Mark web to last because we have certain ones of these positions and we and the last time I think we brought up this this topic was on uh for the interior defensive line is hey can we see a undrafted free agent at at that position making this roster and I believe that's the case that you're going to make here and it's for a good reason because the safety position is one position that even still to right now us talking about this is the one position that everybody feels that we could use a little bit more depth for we asked Chris Harry Harry about that last week um and we don't know what's going to happen between now and the start of the regular season who these surprise cuts are going to be who's going to make the rosters or not from other different teams who's going to become available so yes from a surface level standpoint alone I'll say this I don't see the Chargers keeping five safeties if we're talking about these five if we're talking about another veteran presence that they may sign before start a training camp then yes I really don't see them keeping more than nine defensive backs total when you add in the rest of the cornerbacks as well but uh but bend DeLuca again it's it's an interesting Pro Prospect is it a depth piece yes it's nothing more than that um and I think when you look at the accolades that he did at Charlotte for the type of production that he put up and you know you can't you unfortunately you can't teach athleticism you can't teach speed which unfortunately again is one of his weaknesses but those instincts as a safety are also certain things that you can't teach either and those are what he has going for them so is it a long shot absolutely for him to make this final roster uh as we sit here today I say that he's one of the Prime candidates that you could say that you could end up putting on the practice squad no doubt about it yeah and the one thing I am curious about as we kind of get moving towards training camp and into preseason is starting to look at you know what this coaching staff values more and I'm sure everyone's going to kind of give an an answer where we value both athleticism and intelligence but like if I look back at his defenses back when he was with the the Broncos and the Bears and then obviously with with the Rams like they had stud athletes like Jaylen Ramsey is smart but he's also like a Bonafide athlete like Aaron Donald you can't find anybody more athletic than him there's a lot of folks that kind of had that athleticism plus plus that they were able to teach up I don't necessarily know if that is a Ben deuca and so I think because of the similarities I see in him and Lohi Gilman and him not having kind of that upside athleticism I think you're right I think he he probably is the kind of the one on the bubble um and that's because of who we're going to talk about next and you've heard a lot of folks in the organization you've heard a lot of players talk about him heard folks covering the team talk about him Mark Webb out of Georgia Jay I really really like what he does and I think he was such an underrated pick for this team yeah I would say that too and um you know for a guy who was a seventh round pick you normally don't say that you know at most you say okay it's this guy's going to come in he's going to be a camp body nothing more but again he's being much like alohi Gilman and he's being thrust into a very interesting opportunity here um he's going to be a key piece as far as depth goes to the safety group and for Mark web you're talking about a player that again you're going to start to hear this I mean tell me stop me when you you're starting to hear the trend versatility think about this we've already been talking about the versatility between Derwin James and nly and what they can do in this defensive scheme and now you add another versatile player like Mark web coming into this um and I'm not just talking about versatility as it relates to what he can play as far as the safety position goes again this guy is another contributor on special teams um this is where he's going to cut his teeth first and foremost when it comes to having a guy in this in this part of the draft in the seventh round that you're taking that is capable of playing uh you know the slot position or the dime backer position the strong safety position whichever you want to call it you know to find a a guy who and again we're talking about coming from a Georgia group that was just insane for their defensive back talent that they had in 2020 and Mark web was a key contributor to all of that I love the way I love Mark Webb's attitude I love the way that he approaches the game um again he's not the most athletic type of safety he's not the most productive type safety but don't tell him that dude because he sure as hell doesn't believe it he knows what he can do and um you put him with his coaching staff and get a little bit more refinement again special teams first but having a guy like this to have this vers type of Versatility I'd be interested to see especially during the preseason what Mark Webb is going to do and even in certain situations where you're going to give Derwin or NASA break I'm very excited to see where they would actually put him because it may not just be at the safety position which would be really interesting yeah it's he is one of those um kind of not necessarily a freak athlete but he's one of the types that he is both physical and he can cover and when you look at kind of that like nickel Corner safety star hybrid kind of position you play the nickel you play the slot you're blitzing you're in coverage you're tackling like be able to kind of do all of those things and although you mentioned he wasn't that productive while at Georgia it's because it was absolutely loaded he is a very good player he's kind of like that doit all Swiss army knife kind of player that we've talked about before the coaching staff like I mentioned they all love him uh he plays more of like that strong safety role like up in the box underneath um I was when I was doing some homework on this Jake went back the Senior Bowl and and there was a a rep during practice where he went up against Amari Rogers and just absolutely blanketed him the entire time up to and through the end zone the guy never had a chance uh he has played the star position actually in Georgia he actually talks about it a few times he played it all in 2019 is actually where he had the most production I think Mark web has the chance to be that kind of safety too like I think he's going to be the one if one of the guys needs a breather if one of the guys is going to be going down whatever I think Mark Webb is the one who's probably going to be the next man up at that strong safety position or I guess you want to call it money but I think it's Mark web if you go back and you look at the you listen to the press conference from Tom Tesco just after the closing of the NFL draft he had gotten a question from a reporter saying um asking him who he felt the steal of his draft was now us being fans you could say it was rayan Slater you could say it was aant Samuel Jr whatever you want to say about it he didn't necessarily he highlighted a lot of his day three picks didn't say the word steal but he went on a nice rant about Mark Webb and the quote that he actually said was for a seventh round pick to play for a college like Georgia um and play a lot of different roles in the secondary against great competition and he says I know seventh round picks are hard for those guys to make the team but he but um we think that he has some traits that can translate to do what we do well what we do on defense whether it's outside corner nickel which he played a lot of safety so again this just shows you the versatility that you find in a seventh round pick um and I thought that would I mean again it's it's early you like to hear these type of things we're not talking about guys that have necessarily uh you know snapped the football yet but for a guy like that in a seventh round in a position that is not the deepest for this team this is a great opportunity for him um not just the way that he plays the game an opportunity for him to get on the field in more ways than one but more importantly for the spot that he landed in for this coaching staff to develop him properly I couldn't think of a better situation for a seventh round pick with his potential to land on then a team with Brandon Staley Ronaldo Hill and Derwin James helping you kind of get coached up as your career starts like you you can't ask for more than that like I love what he brings I think I think his potential is higher than most on this secondary and I'm I think we're going to see more of him than people are expecting like I think people are seeing are think it's going to be a ton of of Nas and Derwin which like it will be but I guarantee you we're going to see more of Mark web than we did of alohi Gilman last year like guaranteed oh there's no question there Dan and you're not the only one uh Gavino Borges for anybody that reads Charters wire is extremely high on Mark Webb this year and even he predicts that Mark Webb is going to make an impact defensively early on says don't be surprised by it um so you're not the only one again I think that you're talking about a versatile defensive weapon whether okay here's a very good example I posed the question to Chris Harry last week when I was talking about the possibility of Kaiser white stepping in in an emergency safety situation because he played that position in West Virginia now I know we've always known him as a line as a linebacker and he's done well since he's been in the league but Mark web could be your versatile chess piece of where you want to play him whether you're talking the corner position or whether you're talking the safety position and at the same time this could actually give you more flexibility for roster spots I mean think about how this opens up a plethora of different situations here so yeah I think that there's I think that there's something to denote here when you go back and you look at his college career in Georgia what he was able to do and again most of all his versatility I think that this is a great situation for him I think this guy is more likely to be like Adrian Phillips than the others and so for that reason I I I love what he brings I think his versatility is key the fact that he can do special teams is really important the fact that he can do many things well I'm I'm I'm on I'm high I am on the front row seat of the train for Mark web although are you nosier adly high on the train not I'm not quite that high I'm not quite that high but I for a seventh round pick we D we did pretty darn good not too bad not too bad so so that's going to do it for for the safety position now I guess Jake so we have we've talked about what Five Guys here today we talked about Bend DeLuca Loi Gilman Mark web nir adly and Derwin James of the five do we both agree that four is the most that make this team active roster four is the most that makes this team and again it may not even be the four of the Five Guys we talked about today we don't know what's going to happen but this this is a position to watch for undoubtedly over the period of training camp through preseason keep your eyes peeled for who's going to be a surprise cut so to speak uh from other teams and uh and who's going to become available because we all know it's just it happens every single year and if someone of very high Talent comes available am I talking now let me temporary expectations here am I talking about starter caliber position that you would replace nasery with no I don't believe that that's who we're looking for but you definitely need more veteran depth in this position because that's where it's it's lacking tremendously like aik hooker type I whether it was a Malik hooker even though I know that you know you if he could stay healthy he could be the starting safety on anybody's team right now but if if that's a situation that arises who knows what's going to come with him I think for Malik hooker I think he's I think he'll hold out for a starting job so you may not see him get signed until closer toward the end of the season or maybe it is you know week three and a big injury situation comes down and then he ends up signing with a team um so as much as I know that guys would love to see that combo um I think that he would be holding out more for a starting position given from where he came from with the Colts so again I'm I'm thinking veteran experience you got to have some vet more veteran experience back here with the depth of this team so it'll be interesting to see what happens with uh with the next few weeks of training camp and of course the preseason before the start of the uh the season another position battle down we have done interior defensive line we have done corner we have done tight ends we have done running backs and now safety we have other positions coming soon Jake this has been fun I cannot wait we are so freaking close to training camp starting like I I can almost I I don't even want to do any more training camp position battles just because I want the topic to be not because I'm sick and tired of doing this with you I just want the topic to be over give me July 27th right now so I could talk about what the guys are doing in pads on the field today thank you very much please and thank you for those who are coming in for the first time and have made it this far thank you so much for listening to us you can find us on spreer on Spotify on Apple iTunes podcast YouTube be sure to subscribe if you feel we deserve a five-star rating on podcast we'd love one thank you so much for listening and tuning in and we will see you next time on Chargers [Music] anything