'PREDATORY': AOC Lashes Out At Green Party

let's move on uh to this feud between Alexandria kazio Cortez and Jill Stein Ryan do you want to set the table for us on this because it's sort of straight out of your book well so uh AOC was doing in Instagram live and taking questions uh from her audience and one of them was basically uh what what should I say to my friends who are considering voting green party or thinking about voting uh for for Jill Stein uh let's roll uh the AOC clip that kicked this off you are the leader of your party and if you run for years and years and years and years and years in a row and your party is not grown and you don't add city council seats and you don't add down ballot candidates and and you don't add State electeds that's bad leadership and that to me is what's upsetting because if you have been your party's nominee for 12 years in a row row four years ago and four years before that and four years before that and you cannot grow your movement pretty much at all and can't pursue any successful strategy and all you do is show up once every four years to speak to people who are justifiably pissed off but you're just showing up once every four years to do that you're not serious you're not off to me it does not read as authentic it reads as predatory I'm sorry I'm just saying it and let's roll uh Jill Stein's response from an airport here CH here I'm about to board but very quickly I just wanted to thank AOC Pelosi so very much for her very authentic concern about growing green power clearly aocc is the attack dog aour and the Democrats are Running Scared and they should be because who wants to support a genocide who wants to vote for a genocide and if there's anything that's predatory here it's saying that your candidate is working tirelessly for a ceasefire when actually they are actively funding and arming genocide and actually refusing to even consider an arms embargo which would bring the genocide to a screeching halt AOC who's supposed to be in leadership of the democratic party it's amazing if she doesn't know about the anti-democratic tactics and strategies that the Democratic party uses to crush and silence political opposition and to take it to another level the DNC is now attacking uh Jill Stein if you can put at this uh element here uh so Jill Stein went down to support uh three uh black nationalist activists who are charged with acting as agents of Russia she went down to support them DNC spokes president uh said Jill Stein is a useful idiot for Russia after paring Kremlin talking points and being propped up by Bad actors in 2016 she's at it again Jill Stein won't become president but her spoiler candidacy that both the GOP and Putin have previously shown interest in can help decide who wins a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump which is that that is the like that's the oldest line in the book from mainstream parties towards third party candidates that a vote for X is actually vote for y um as somebody on the outside when you watch these those those three different clips what was your reaction to them I mean I think Jill Stein got the better of AOC in that exchange um because on the question of like they're both talking about what they believe is genocide so it's pretty black and white when you can spit back in at at AOC that she's on the side of the party that's saying Joe Biden is working tirelessly or KLA Harris is working tirelessly for a ceasefire I mean that felt like kind of a slam dunk um even though obviously Jill Stein AOC is correct that Jill Stein has not found much of a constituency over her many years in politics but where it's somewhat uh I don't know if disappointing is the right word but somewhat frustrating to hear from AOC who I disagree with on most things but so thoroughly enjoyed uh her defeat of Joe Crowley is you know that's not all for that's not all Jill Stein's fault there are a lot of other forces that AOC should theoretically be opposed to that we gatekeeping Jill Stein I don't think Jill Stein is like a brilliant once in a generation politician or is anyone that could turn out to be like a Ross perau level third party candidate I just don't find her that compelling I don't think a lot of other people find her that compelling um there are many people who do but not enough to obviously become viable there are though a lot of Gatekeepers that are pushing to ensure people like Joel Stein aren't viable and you'd think AOC would have some sympathy um because her entire sort of Instagram video her entire argument in that Instagram was sort of saying if you're not finding it was kind of smug right it's like if you're not finding a constituency then that's on you it's like well it's probably also on a lot of the factors you say you don't like too it is but you have to you know you if you're one person you work with a world you've got um one correction on to to aoc's uh argument there it was actually hoe Hawkins who was the green party nominee in 2020 if remember you remember hoe Hawkins no uh which goes to the point like nobody even knows who the green party nominee was for instance in 2020 yeah like we know Ralph nater in 2000 was a green party Nom the last time they were kind of relevant uh so was Jill Stein in 2016 how Hawkins in 2020 hawk Hawkins a lot of greens were upset with Hawkins because they thought that he didn't kind of challenge the uh the duop enough and kind of made way in different states uh for Biden to take on Trump um because there's this there is this perennial concern that as a third party does better let's say like the greens in in 2000 a substantial number of those voters then get concerned oh we did better the party did not improve did not move our Direction uh and now we're getting blamed for spoiling the election and then it drains support from them again in the future um I I've got my own complicated green history I was actually a green party member least surprising information I've ever receiv received in uh new New York uh shout out to Paul Gilman who invited me to the uh join the the Queens green party uh back in 1999 2000 uh I even went to on a like a with a convoy of buses I literally went to the green party convention just Doc Martin everywhere 2000 yeah uh dorno like volunteered this Madison Square Garden rally where he packed the entire event so every single argument that anybody could make for the green party you're sympathetic too I made myself right in a louder and more obnoxious way many many times over and the and the basic arguments are there's no difference between the the two parties uh and then the second argument is by building third party power you're going to kind of force the Democrats to move better to move in your direction yeah and we can take each one of those um you know 2000 argu so the greens also have this thing that they do where they say and I did it myself that okay look when if you say look uh Ralph nater got X thousands of votes in Florida yep and that swung the election to Bush the greens and go scroll down to the comment section you'll see them doing it right now the greens will say that's absolutely not true MH do the math uh the Dem that they were registered Democrats who ended up voting uh for George Bush and that's the fault of of Democrats those were like but those are southern Democrats like who were actually Republicans sure who were always going to vote for Republicans there were definitely like it was 537 votes in the end separated Gore and Bush like you just have to say like okay there were there were tens of thousands of people who voted for nater who if he wasn't running they would have voted for Al Gore like that's just a fact and to me as a third party supporter the proper answer is not to like uh split hairs about this and and argue that no it didn't actually have an effect you have to own it yeah right because it's your argument that's your argument your argument no difference there's no difference yeah and it's and it's good like whatever H like we're we're going to vote for this person and come what may yeah and there's no difference anyway and then as soon as it has some impact on the real world they they run from any responsibility from it uh and so then a couple things happen after 2001 which implies you don't like the consequences right even though you were threatening those very consequences as a good thing right exactly so I I I I have much deeper respect for the argument that yeah that's right it did cost them and you know what democrats should have been a better party right and if they were a better party then we wouldn't have run and he wouldn't have gotten as much support or alore should have earned those votes no nobody is like nobody's born like with the right to have having you vote for them right uh like those are better arguments to me on a moral level that's a great Point than to say it didn't actually and so you you get you get this from greens all the time actually it didn't matter like the the the the thing that I talk about all the time you know my choice to vote for third party do doesn't actually mean anything they're like well then why why won't why are you talking about it constantly if it didn't actually mean anything so after 2000 you get September 11th happens bush is in office he invades Iraq and so a lot of people including myself were confronted with the question now I voted in New York didn't matter well also there's the question of would Al Gore have done the same thing right I think the answer is no I think in order to for the US to invade Iraq you need the neocons in positions of power I mean he those lever I mean the the George W bush going from saying we're going to end Middle East interventionism to you know championing Middle Eastern right but but it was his Vice President Dick Cheney uh and his uh you know secretary to defense Donald Rumsfeld and Paul wol wtz and like though that that clack of people really kind of did a lot of internal organizing to make sure that that happened you can read Bob Woodward's book about um 911 like within a day or two of the attack on uh the World Trade Center rumfelt is saying we need to invade Iraq because there aren't enough Targets in Afghanistan and and they IM and they immediately start laying the groundwork for that and that this was a particular set of people who had a particular Vision it is it was the the neoconservatism gets thrown around a lot but it is a very specific like in its most literal sense there is a very specific sort of group of people that are refer these were intellectual leaders of it and they were in the exact right positions of power to kind of jam it into happening that said the greens like yourself at that very moment may have had a good case to own frankly that Personnel in an Al Gore Administration uh continued from the Clinton Administration could have made some of the very same errors um that I'm not saying that's absolutely accurate I'm just saying there was the the green case that both parties are the same through the lens of the the response to 911 not a terrible argument because there is some overlap between Clinton neoconservatism and ultimately what became Bush neoconservatism some important differences too but it's yeah it's hard to say yeah and that gets to the the more difficult question of today because I think yes yes I think back then it was clear the Republicans were much more both part like this is America Mo both parties have like enormous numbers of warmongers in them on the scale of warmongers in 2000 Republicans had the had the neocons um they had the they had the aggressive militarism of of reaganism still kicking and uh Democrats had L say let's say half of that today I think if if it's a if you're asking about workers unions on the economy on domestic policy I genuinely do think uh Democrats are better for workers than Republic an are today when it comes to American militarism abroad and foreign policy I I I'm I can't say that for sure and don't you think AOC is saying that I mean she OB yes Ian a is a Democrat like the and and she's saying Democrats are better than Republicans and and any Democrat ought to say that but when it comes to foreign policy Trump could be a complete madman his second term who knows but we know that Democrats have embraced a a a a militarism and and a hawkish foreign policy that that is frightening and does it from that perspective make them better so so then you're then you're asking yourself a real question it's a lesser of two EV of two you've got two parties which one is better or worse on on the particular issue that I care about more like if I think it's clear if it's domestic policy it's Democrats like I don't think there's any question about that right now you this this realignment is fascinating four years eight years from now we might have a different to that question foreign policy they might be better but they might not it's like it's it's not as obvious a question to me yeah I agree as it as it used to be because there are Wars happening in both parties right now over who gets to control foreign policy yeah it's yeah that's clearly happen I think it's more interesting right now on the Republican side because there are people who have genuinely had redox views on foreign policy that are starting to look like they're coming out ahead in tug of war JD Vance is one of them um that doesn't seem like it it's in as much on the left although uh ilhan Omar is someone who's certainly ascendant and has sted out a position actually directly during DNC week against AOC and to me those are the real questions that you have to ask yourself and if you notice what's not in there is this is the third party stuff right or or in particular the green party uh the green green party has just done a deplorable job of Growing Power at the local level and at the state and at the federal level but some of that is clearly the fault of gatekeeping on behalf of vicious the DNC operatives and the media and I mean like they're not entirely wrong about being marginalized by you know the pro lowercase D democracy factions in americ factions but people kind of sometimes make the mistake of assuming that a political party that is named the Democrats would support democracy big mistake big mistake they don't they support the Democratic party yeah and so yes it whatever is in the interest of the democratic party that's what they're going to do and if if that means trying to kick the greens off the ballot and it's awfully hypocritical but it's exactly what you would expect of them the fundamental problem that any third party has is the system that we have which is this it's not parliamentary in Europe uh and and some other uh places around the world you win 7% of the vote you get 7% of the seats in Parliament and then you join a coalition and then you can that's that's the leverage that you have here our coalitions are formed ahead of time and then it's a first pass the post whoever gets not even a majority whoever gets more votes that's why like Bill Clinton could win with you know 30 some percent or for 41% whatever he had in 1992 because Ross Pro drained out right 19% and so that that means that a voter going into the polls by the time they get into the booth knows it's either going to be this person or this person and so all of the different law fair and and legal challenges and gatekeeping that the media does to the greens and and to other the Libertarians and other third parties like even RFK Jr like that that hurts them a lot but nothing hurts them more than just the fundamental design of the system we have because people because people go in and they want their vote to to count yeah between one party or the other yeah and that's what's interesting about Alexandri Kazu Cortez's response she could have said she could have expressed any sort of empathy for that perspective and when I think instead with the sort of smug dunk which I get because to the point that you're making and as we're talking about this I find it so interesting there are you know there there's a real blame on the greens for not being more compelling to the average American voter um that you know they're there's something that they haven't tapped into that there there are real failures on their part there are things that they can do better I get that I just would think as somebody who's sort of sympathetic to the anti-establishment movements on either the left or the right um that you would be your priority would be saying like hey I hear you agree with you well she did say at the beginning which we didn't play In that clip she said at the beginning look I'm not talking about the people themselves who are considering voting for Jill sign she's like look I get that because the parties suck and and frankly like she went up on stage and and said k Harris is working tirelessly to end a ceasefire while Kam Harris's Administration is sending weapons to Israel yep and while Netanyahu is using the Biden administration's support of Netanyahu to fight off pressure from his own coalition to reach a deal we are actively thwarting a deal not working tirelessly to get one so yeah we can all understand why somebody would not want to vote for one of these these two parties so she's not talking about those voters themselves she's she's saying that people like Stein herself yeah are are the ones that are being predatory well and one other point on the greens um ask yourself why did Cornell West uh Run for the green party nomination spend about three weeks looking at the mess that the green party had become say no and decid that he wasn't going to run anymore um like and this is and we can say okay maybe it's not their fault Etc because of all the structural problems that they have anybody who's active in the green party knows yeah the green part is a me it's a complete and total mess it's the same thing with the Libertarians I mean it's and both of us know this it's like there Fringe political movements are often led by eccentric characters who are already fighting the sefian battle against the system that is designed to crush them uh but anybody who is willing to spend the like tireless effort that involves to fight that c cian battle more often than not as eccentric and more often than not not the like best organizer in the world it's like a lot of like very interesting um you know principled people on in green circles and libertarian circles and those spaces get really really messy I mean the the I bet on the libertarian side it's the same that it becomes a lifestyle for people 100% a social thing now now a lot of Democrats like the ones who go to the Convention as as like delegates same thing that's a lifestyle thing for them too they just like being Democrats they go to the county meetings y like that's it this is it's what they do for their Community the difference there is that you know they might win some elections sometimes um with greens and Libertarians it just becomes like this is this is my identity this is the thing I do yeah and so as we're saying this Robert F Kennedy Jr um is staying on the Michigan ballot which is actually fairly huge news because there were a lot of Voters that he appealed to I mean we're getting into nator territory potentially with something like Michigan right now there were a lot of Voters he appealed to who will not be persuaded to vote for Donald Trump because they were double haters and they are not going to um you know sort of along the lines of what we talked about with uh in the debate we hosted with Michael Tracy and ourkid Junior field organiz organizer former um last week there's just a whole lot of people that cannot be persuaded to vote for Donald Trump they are the sort of RFK Jr green equivalent you know both parties are the exact same thing and when you are in a race that could got you just what was it 500 and something votes in Florida in 2000 when you're in a race that could be just as close as that one and the Electoral colleges on the line in States like Michigan having his name on the ballot is uh for people who you know don't pay super close attention to politics and just want to cast a protest vote that's really dangerous for the Trump campaign and Mark Cuban tweeted you know who helped pay for the lawsuit that got RFK Jr and Cornell West on the North Carolina ballot me he said I help fund voter Choice I'm not a fan of the two-party system and voter Choice helps get candidates on the ballot and we are good at it his North Carolina organization came to us for help we helped no cost to them so I don't feel bad that he can't get off the ballot um so Cuban sort of taking a Victory lap on that one because the RFK Jr campaign was trying really hard to get on the ballot in all of these states and then when you for Trump you can't get off of it because it's late in the game that could really I I think that could really really hurt Donald Trump yeah hard to hard to think of a I think that's absolutely right yeah because if you go in because his job he's not going to make himself more popular Trump he's going to make KLA Harris more less popular that's his goal and you know she's try to tear him down but you know views are kind of baked in on him so by the time people go into the booth a lot of them are going to hate both and if RFK J's name is there then maybe right well when we're planning the show out just a little inside baseball here we come up with topics that we think you know will make good blocks for 15 minutes something like that and we just turned a block on an Instagram post from Alexandri acasio Cortez into like apologies hour like discussion about Ryan's history of the green party which was so interesting actually and I'm very it yeah it's all gone you'll never see it hey if you liked that video don't forget to hit the like button and subscribe to Breaking points if you want to see the rest of 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