Top 10 TE Rankings + Hit Rates, Danger Zone | Fantasy Football 2024 - Ep. 1611

Intro Fook Gland, your league's drafts are coming up and if you are the champ or if your league has a champ from last year, you need to go to fantasychamps.com, make sure you got that swag. Get those rings, get those trophies, get those championship belts and right now, if you add a belt or a trophy to your cart, you can get one of those championship rings, a $60 value for free, just put in the code, freeringatfantasychamps.com. Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers podcast with your hosts Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright. Welcome in. The Fantasy Footballers. Back again. You startled me. Stardom myself. Never let yourself know what your next move is. Jason Moore and Mike Wright, Andy Holloway. Deucers Alley, Full of Deucers, Al Borland in the house, Papa Josh and the Falcon. I gotta be honest, the Falcon's known for something at this point in time. Yeah, he's known for taking a Falcon. If you know what I mean, that's on the toilet. And we know this because we've been reviewing the listener league entries, which sensational. Awesome, incredible, thank you, brutal to have to just choose a handful of you for the listener league. But those decisions are being made. Yeah, they will be finalized probably today, tomorrow, this week for sure. And we will, we will let you know. And so look, we're going to get to it today. Maybe tomorrow. Look, maybe this week. I'm like myself sometime. Okay, you should have just started with this week. Well, the truth. Here's the truth. Look, we're in it now. The truth is, I hope to have it done today or tomorrow. And my nice, you know, there's a lot. There's a lot to do. There is a lot going on. I was like, okay, I'm gonna do it today or tomorrow. No, no, I guess not. It's look, if you don't hear tomorrow, it doesn't mean, you know, doesn't necessarily means I'm a busy man. You ever negotiated against yourself? I just did. And I got a week out of it. Yeah, you did. So thank you for those entries. It's awesome. It's awesome to see the community and the footland is mighty. But I think your point in bringing that up was that several people have submitted about taking a Falcon. Yeah, that's their words. Not mine. Yeah, we would never. We would never sell him down the river. I'll show long when he doesn't show up because he has to take a dump. The big news yesterday, this week, the UDK for life giveaway. So if you pick up an ultimate draft kit before Friday's live stream, which we'll be doing an exclusive Q&A live stream where we'll give away a UDK for life and assign Justin Jefferson Jersey and entertainment and information. We'll be giving away entertainment for free as well. But we'll choose them live on Friday. This is fun to do every year. And you can enter by going to ultimate draft kit dot com. All of the giveaway details are listed on that page as well. And that'll be fun. So ultimate draft kit dot com. Plus, you know what? I kind of buried the lead. You'll have the ultimate draft kit. Right. Right. You'll also have the product that will help you win on draft day. Build your cheat sheet and have the app and mark your players and take advantage of your league mates and make them feel stupid and cry and go home. They'll be just like Papa Josh. Yeah, we say a lot. You don't win the, you know, you don't win your league at the draft, but you can certainly win the draft day and just completely make your league mates feel so stupid. It's a good foundation. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You build a foundation at the draft for your championship run and the ultimate draft kit is the best tool to do it. All right, let's jump in. Welcome to the waiver wire presented by NFL Sunday ticket on YouTube TV. Waiver Wire All right, the last couple of weeks we have we jumped into the waiver wire specifically for dynasty players that we're paying attention to in preseason training camp that you should pick up that you should throw on the back of your roster. And then the next couple of weeks we'll be looking at what we kind of call the undrafted gyms, the players that aren't being selected in the average standard 12 team 10 team league, but that you might want to, you know, tuck away. See what happens a week one or two. Yeah, it's basically what we'll look at, you know, in the future weeks before kickoff for the waiver wire is essentially who you should be drafting in the last round. Or if you've done your draft because I know a lot of people have their drafts in the books already. You might want to take a look at your roster and say, Yeah, I would rather have this, you know, this undrafted gym on the waiver wires. But for now, this is the final week of looking at it from a dynasty perspective. Last week we brought up such great names as Tyrone Tracy. Yeah, we can start there. I mean Tyrone Tracy the news this morning injured at practice, aircasted now being the latest. Yeah, he's going to the he is going to the hospital for special surgery in the New York area. And so this is likely immediate surgery, likely a season ending injury for a player that looked like a great depth pickup for the Giants backfield, which maybe at this point leads you right into Eric Gray. Yes, Eric Gray would be the number one pickup now in replacement of that. That's certainly a name to pick up. This depth chart is basically just Devin Singletary and if Devin Singletary goes down then without Tyrone Tracy, Eric Gray is a is a must pick up. And then Mike, you mentioned Jordan Whittington yesterday, sixth round draft pick from the Rams who flashed in preseason might be worth posting on the back of a roster. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't just the play, which it was sensational at six for 74. But the way that he's being talked about by his head coach. I also in that game they were talking to Stafford on the sideline and his words about Whittington were very, very kind. Now it's not everything but it is just it's another piece of the puzzle. So he's to me as someone that needs to be picked up just in case. Well, he's a grown man. Yes. Yes, Sean McVeigh says he's just a mature rookie. He's a grown man. He plays like a grown man with the ball in his hands. I can't help but think that the view of Whittington is being probably appropriately. You know, impacted by Puka's selection last year like you know the Rams identifying value at wide receiver later in the draft. It is. But if you compare the collegiate production, you know, if you look at our production profiles in the UDK, you compare what Puka had in college versus what Whittington has had in college. There's is. Yeah. One is one is absolutely excellent like Puka crushed versus zone 3.81 yards per zone which was better than Jamar Chase did. Whittington crushed it. Nothing. Yeah. But you look good on an NFL field. So it's worth a shot. Couple other six round picks. Andre Yoshivas. Yes. Wide receiver for Cincinnati should be on rosters. Jalen Naylor a six round pick who seems to have been kind of winning the wide receiver three job in Minnesota. And then another wide receiver three job that seems to be one is Jalen Tolber in Dallas who you know people talked about him when he was coming out and nothing materialized. Oh yeah. Johnny Wilson in Philly's also a six round pick. So are we just targeting six six round wide out. Well those are the guys that are on waivers and dynasty but I do think Johnny Wilson has a path. He basically even though he is six foot six. He's really more of a slot type of wide receiver. I think that's where they will use him and he has to beat out Paris Campbell. Good news for Johnny Wilson. Johnny Wilson I thought was I like this film in college. He was productive. He was large people. People really just said he was large. Yeah. He he was very very large for a wide receiver and everyone was like oh you're going to have to move to tight end and the Eagles drafted him and said no we're not moving into him to tight end. We think he's valuable and they've been using him. He's been getting first team reps and he only has to beat Paris Campbell. Paris Campbell is not good at football. So that's the path for Johnny Wilson. Let me ask you guys because his name has been brought up on the podcast Colby Parkinson Los Angeles Rams tight end because it was last year before the before the free agency period. Davis Allen looked like OK this is a good stash here because Tyler Higbee their starter absolutely annihilated his knee in January of like if Higbee is back by the midpoint of the season I would say that's a that's a huge success for him. Colby Parkinson signed a pretty lucrative deal. We didn't know exactly what to make of it but he did not play this first preseason week. He sat with the known starters. Meanwhile Davis Allen was out there a ton. Have you changed your view here of this because look Tyler Higbee while not a superstar has been a good fill in tight end. The complication of the situation Jason brought up a long time ago which is Colby Parkinson is a he's worthy of the contract as a tight end in all the things that tight ends do. But four years to accumulate 57 catches just makes me think that role he can be a full time starter and catch 25 passes. He's proven that so that that puts that hesitation in there where it's like OK it's probably neither. And then when Higbee returns is definitely neither or definitely. Is that that sentence was weird. I liked it. I mean you meant once Higbee when there's three you can you can say driver. Nive thrice. None of them. Yeah that's I think that's what you'd say. Thank you for correcting me. I would still prefer Davis Allen just for the hopeful upside. I think that we know that the hopeful upside of Parkinson doesn't really exist. He could have the role and the role could be like oh maybe you could stream him a week or something and he catches a couple touchdowns. That's that's the point. That's all I'm hoping for. They played some 12. You know when you get out there in 12 Parkinson's blocking and Allen's running down the field. Yeah I'm not hoping for that. Like I don't care if I've got there's going to be 100 you know tight ends out there that catch a couple touchdowns this year. I'm I don't think Davis Allen gets it done. But I I think that's where I would make my bet in the sense that if there is upside to be had it's it's in him. Any other waiver names you guys want to bring up before we move on. I will throw out Jared Wiley. I mentioned on the Dynasty pot as my nasty boy of summer. He is the rookie tight end behind Travis Kelsey behind no gray and no gray but no gray is not under contract next year. Travis Kelsey could retire any offseason. So all of a sudden there's a world where the number one tight end and he's been working with the starters from the the very get go of camp. So I don't know. Jared Wiley is just a name to know. And he at least is he's really athletic. And that is in the simplest terms when you're trying to find a tight end athleticism is where you should start along with draft capital. All right. Thanks again to NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. Watch every game every Sunday when you bundle NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV sign up today at YouTube dot com slash fantasy footballers local and national games. On YouTube TV NFL Sunday Ticket for out of market games excludes digital only games device and content restrictions apply. News and notes from around the league presented by USA insurance. NFL News It's preseason and the alarms were going off yesterday. Yeah. Late yesterday. Jameer Gibbs leg injury at practice. What is the latest. The latest I heard they're calling it a hamstring injury. I have not seen a significant update as to the grade the severity what happened. You know they will probably shut him down. For a little while here in you know you probably won't see him until the beginning of the season just to be safe with the you know you who the hamstring pops up. And I will say that you know over the years over the years the hamstring injuries in camp have a nasty habit of popping up again in the season. And that's not to say you can't draft Jameer Gibbs. I mean obviously Jameer Gibbs is awesome. It just raises his risk factor to me a little bit. You know where he's going in drafts. I you know I would take him ahead of Kyren easily every time. Now it's like now it's a little bit of a question. I have seen some Jameer Gibbs dynasty managers sending through panic trades. Oh don't don't. Don't see. Don't. Not to trade him away. Oh it's a depth acquire Montgomery. Yeah. From the Montgomery manager because they feel like they need to almost buy an insurance policy right now due to the injury. And I guess I'm curious how reactionary would you be in that situation. Would you give up a little bit of value in an unequal trade to just ensure your Gibbs or are you hurting yourself. No I think I would in a dynasty league. This is I think it's jumped up to a one. Like if I if I have Montgomery and the team with Gibbs comes to me for a very playable running back and David Montgomery. Yeah. Who if Gibbs is out. I have a locked and loaded RB one that price starts at a one. Yeah you're right. You're right. I don't think I would trade David Montgomery for less than one. He's he's let's say the Jameer Gibbs is fully healthy this year. David Montgomery is a full starting running back. Yes. Going to have as good a chance of anybody in the league to score double digit rushing touchdowns. And so yeah I would I would say it starts there. I'm going to say my reaction was I probably would have to pay more than one. Yes. Yes. But David Montgomery is the other side of this. We've been talking about it in all the mock drafts that we do where when you take either Gibbs or Montgomery there is a built in thing that most other running backs at value don't have where this is a playable asset and should the other guy go down. It becomes an incredibly important winning upside. Have we talked about that enough with Raheem Oster in the seventh round. Probably not. The fact that like I mean like H. and literally was hurt three times. Yeah. But we don't I don't remember talking about that a lot on most shirts breakdown of just like what have I told you. A chance gone in week three. Yeah. Most of it was RB two last year. It will be a crazy steal. Did you guys see coach. What. Oh yeah. Ronald McDonald's. Coach McDonald's coach. Of the Miami Dolphins coach Ronald McDonald talking about running backs and they he was asked about this like running backs being listed as starters and he kind of took. I mean look he gives some wild answers sometimes but essentially he was like it. We have best we have four good running backs like I will let the running back play dictate that type of stuff is essentially what he was saying. And so it's I mean it just it just juiced me up for most or even more. The value is is crazy and that's not being off of H. and that's just being excited for a value running back. We're getting later. I don't think if H. and goes down that Raheem Oster would do what David Montgomery or Gibbs would do in the sense that Jalen right. The the draft they just brought in and Jeff Wilson is still on the team. I think that they will still use a rotation there whereas I think with the Lions should one of those guys go down. I mean obviously someone will come in to spell people but the I mean we saw it last year even with Gibbs when Montgomery went down. They get the like a workhorse role. Yeah I can see your Jason any other lines. No I switch. Yeah this is the new thing I mean did you see Matt LaFleur coming out and talking about like how how you know this talk of you want to vomit. This talk of how if you know trying to put a wide receiver is my wide receiver one makes them want to vomit. Listen Matt I'll make you a deal you give me the top four fantasy finishers a wide receiver and I will call all your receivers one. Yeah. Wide receiver one. Absolutely. Just give us the order. No. Yeah you finish. You have two of them finish the top 12. I'll say you have two wide receiver ones. There you go. That's a fair point. All right. Good news on Malik neighbors. Not only did Brian Dabel say that all the tests came back positive and that will be OK and that it's not serious but Malik neighbor said he feels good he has no doubt he'll be there for week one and he said he thought it was no big deal when it happened but wanted to get it checked out. Yeah and I mean that's good news because we've all rolled our ankle before where it is actually not a big deal you know where it's like oh I'm worried and then it's like OK you're OK he was stretching today he's on the field. You know I think he practices this week and I'm I'm starting to not worry at all about it. J.J. McCarthy missed practice due to knee soreness when I saw this come through I thought it was an announcement that he was going to get first team reps and it was rather his knee. Yeah. On the on the ouch list. Chase Claypool on I.R. ending his season. Good night. Sweet Prince. And I see this news bit in here so maybe Mike wanted to talk about it. I didn't put it in. Albert Brear saying Bearswater Sea recanon Allen appears to be 230 pounds. Yeah. What do you mean appears to be. That's what he's listed at. Yeah he was. The point is whoa. Yeah. To 30 right now. I mean what was he wasn't playing at that last. There's no way. That's I mean something to watch. He was probably playing at 210 probably. Have you had that Chicago deep dish though. I mean. That's not. 210 to 230 overnight and deep dishes how you pack it on. Yeah. I mean that stuff is. Can you eat more than one slice of that. I'm not supposed to. But can you. Can you. I could do. I could do. You can. Yeah. I don't I don't know that I consequences. I'm I'm I literally mean that word as in can I. You put in the effort. You can do it. Yeah. You think. You can. But seriously Keenan is going to. Right now because that is. I'm almost retired. It's fine. Someone you're. Only working the short part of the field. It comes up because there was like there was some reporting from a few days ago of a report a beat reporter out of the San Francisco out of Chicago and they're like they had tweeted about it and then they pulled it down. I'm talking about Keenan Allen's weight and they're like I want to make sure I'm getting the information correct because you know we're just hearing like just can you look a little slow to you guys and then the actual report came out of there. And I'm just kidding. Now it's an elite player but if he's really a little bit overreacting at that weight it's going to be a problem. Our data from last year I don't I don't know when when they weigh in but looking says six two to eleven was Keenan. Yeah that's a pretty big difference. So something to pay attention to that was today's news and notes presented as always by USA insurance learn more USA dot com slash insurance we're going to take a break jump right back into a rankings countdown. This just in Keenan is not to 40. Oh no another slice 45 man. So tight end is in the picture. So you're saying at the rate I'm going I could turn in the I could be Keenan Allen other than yes you are Keenan you are Keenan Allen other than Calvin Benjamin. I can't think of a lot of the like a weight related wide receiver story. No that's not what I remember. Frequent. Yeah yeah that's it. That's it. He didn't have a drop right. No I'm thinking of Devon S scrumptious. I don't have it here. Tight ends. All right. Top 10 tight end rankings wrapping up our rankings episodes. We are in half PPR. And Mike you had some stuff to talk about tight ends. Top 10 Tight Ends I just been researching. We're giving give you our hopeful potential top 10 here but want to remind people of what actually has happened historically when we're drafting tight ends and their ability to hit a true ceiling. So over the last five years in average draft position the tight ends were drafted one to three. They have been hitting that top five at a 60% obviously if you draft a guy one you don't want him top five but it's at least it's not a complete disaster. Yeah it doesn't ruin the pack. Right. It's so there's the high end tight ends are hitting. That's why people are more and more jumping into that. If you go to like the middle of the draft you know the the four to six. That is dropped down to a 37% and here is the absolute killer. 80p over the last five years tight ends drafted 7 to 12 have finished in the top five 3% of the time. That's not top three. That's not the number one. That's the top five. They only break in 3% of the time. Yes. So it essentially what the point is of the strategy that we talk about a lot of I want an elite tight end. And then there's that that middle tier of like four to six where I'm OK taking the chance on them. But after that you pretty much punt the tight end position. But that means you're also punting upside. Right. Like based on these this data you are I guess what I mean is you need to be realistic about the outcome of that pun. You can't just say like I'm punting it but then I hope to get top five production by some miracle. Your odds are almost nothing. Right. But I'm saying is half of last year's top 12 were drafted in the 10th round or later. Like it's these it's those it's the tight ends where you're at the point of I did I got to get a tight end. I still got to get one and they're running out. It's the truth of 80p has been don't worry about those guys when it's running out. You're really talking about the first few players we're going to mention the guys that are near you know what. Yes. Tight end nine 10 11 12 those type of guys historically the the hit rate of these first few guys we're going to talk about is is bad. So then if you said half of last year's top 12 were round 10 plus. Yes. And 97% of the top five historically is the first six tight ends off the board. Then threading the needle on and wasting a pick from the middle rounds towards the end is not worth it. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Exactly. Yes. Number 10. Well what a cool introduction for David and Joku. Hey. And it's not that we're saying it's impossible for these players. These are our our best shot at it. David Njoku It's just know what you're getting into when you're drafting tight ends. Is there any position though just to kind of throw a wrinkle into the thought process and totally throw it everything you said. All right. Is there is there any position like tight end where you do see these runs from the position over periods of the season where the final result is very different. Like could be like the Joku's season. He was the league winning tight end. Yes. He was the singular league winning tight end but his fantasy finish was the tight end six so he didn't qualify right like he didn't fit into that box of finishing top five being drafted in those middle rounds. And yet you know the tight end position is strange because you can catch lightning in a bottle and we've seen that as seasons have ended from time to time. So you know you talk about Mike on tips and tricks and we got a tips and tricks episode this week. You've talked about looking at your season in chunks and I wonder if you don't have one of those top five guys if you need to keep looking at your season in chunks at the tight end position. Yeah look look at that schedule because those who have a warm and fuzzy feeling about David and the Joku from last year had him at the end. They didn't have him at the beginning because the first five games of the season. He put up 3.4 4.8 4 7.6 OK 3.9 like he was wide wrist or tight end 17 was the highest finish he put up in his first five games which was just par for the course of a six year career where you have been waiting for David and Joku to do what he did at the end of the year but never got. Yeah. And all it took was Joe Flacco. So the question with David and Joku is was the late season you know manimalistic breakout. Whoa. Enough to enough to like make him the clear number two target in the offense or was it the fact that you had predominantly Joe Flacco led stretch of games for his best games that were you know look you got a statue in the pocket that's not going to be extending plays and look you know he's looking for that safety valve and hyper targeting the Joku. I kind of keep going back and forth but I land more on the side that I don't think the joke is going to be as good as he was the second half of last year with the Sean Watson there. Well the cost is an eighth round pick so it's in that that danger zone that Mike was talking about. Do you agree with the same hesitation. Is it just you know everything on this to come down to whether to show Watson is a real quarterback or not. That and he played hurt. I mean that was yes. He played hurt but he played poorly as well. Well good news. He's cleared for contact as it just came through this morning cleared for contact to Sean Watson. Every day he starts. Recleared right. Recleared. Yes. Contact. He was cleared yesterday but then they wanted to make sure. Right. Well he got hit and then it's like whoa. He's not he's unclear. Now he's back. Jerry Judy also factors into this. Like is Jerry Judy a real wide receiver. And I'm not talking about you know like is he actually play that position. I mean they traded for him. He's not practicing either. Yeah. But over the course of the season they mean they made a gamble on Jerry Judy. And if I mean Amari Cooper is he's the one if Jerry Judy really can be the second target in here and David DeJocu is then the third. I think that becomes a huge situation. What week was Nick Chubb injured. I think it was like week two. Let me I'll verify it. It was very early week to OK. I guess I was curious too from an identity perspective and we won't have Chubb to start the year as well. We've talked about Jerome Ford but like the offense is going to need to transition into a passing offense. And the question is just whether like you said do you have a player in Judy is Amari Cooper the same guy he's always been and do they force feed the ball to Nejoku or not. And I don't think it's you know the states are not as high with an eighth round pick. If you believe that they're going to continue to compete. I mean I thought that Kevin Sifansky and this team did the most impressive job with all of the injuries last year of any team. And now it's their job to make the Sean Watson work. And you know I get the impression that most of the time we talk about Nejoku you two would rather just wait. Yeah I think I'll keep taking shots when I get past. So I've talked about a bunch right. The top five I want one of the top five tight ends. That's that's where I'm usually trying to get the fifth one because I think there's five guys that can get number one. I've I've now started to really kind of include George Kittle on that. So it's six. We'll have a big question mark here when we get to you know the next guy on the list. But I will say that after those guys I'm waiting until whatever my last pick is. I just don't I just don't care the difference between whether I get Nejoku or Pat Friarmiuth or whoever. I'm fine just loading up on wide receivers and running backs and saying if I'm not having a stud tight end. I want the rest of my roster to be worth it. Like there should be a reason that my team doesn't have a great tight end. It's because I loaded up elsewhere not just. Oh I got a worse tight end. Well yeah no I mean I that's a good strategy. And it probably is the one that's going to bear out. The nice thing about Nejoku unlike Friarmiuth or some of the other later names is that you had a stretch. Yeah. For from week seven through 17 where he was the number one tight end in fantasy. It's always nice to know like Kittle. To some extent like Kittle hasn't been what he was three or four years ago. At least you know on any given week this one player can win you a week at the position where you know at least with Friarmiuth and Schultz I don't think that's going to happen. Right. I'm OK. I really am OK with people are like David and Joku's the guy of this range that I want to take the chance on. He just he's not that for me because simply because of the next player the number nine tight end here who is in the exact same range like 80p. We're going from David and Joku 804 to this number nine number nine Jake Turd Ferguson of the Dallas Cowboys. That's why the poop emojis written in there. Yeah. Jake Ferguson Yeah. Turd Ferguson. It's funny. It's funny. Yeah. Big. It does make him more attractive now. Yeah. Yeah. I was out. No man. Turd Ferguson is your target here in the now he still qualifies in the same the same range as as Nijoku and those stats that you're talking about. I mean he was only that he was the tight end eight at eight point three points per game. But you both would take him over Nijoku. The reason being is I believe and I'm firmly projecting that Ferguson is the number two target for the Dallas Cowboys passing offense. He led all tight ends and red zone targets. It didn't turn into as much fantasy goodness as we want. You're pointing. Oh breaking news. Oh I'm sorry. I'm seeing surgery for JJ McCarthy. What is that. What is that. What are we reporting. Vettink. The Falcon dropped this one. So what do I see Adam Schafter how it is. It is from Shefti. How extensive the surgery on J.J. McCarthy's meniscus is will determine how long he will be cycling. Dude he's going to undergo knee surgery and then they will determine the severity in the surgery. So he went underwent an MRI on Monday night. So this is a follow up on our breaking news or our new segment from earlier. Surgery for McCarthy looks so good. Dude the baby may need to be sacrificed over a longer period of time. That's unfortunate. But a meniscus injury is also not you know we're not talking. It's a catastrophic ACL tears. No no it's not that but you if if memory is serving me right like there you can have a meniscus surgery that can take you out for the year that happened to serve Smith and then you can have ones where it's almost like they're snipping it and then it's just like Larry Fitzgerald did or two three weeks. Yeah. So it I guess we sit back and wait for which surgery he gets. That is a big time bomber. Yeah. All right back to the third. So anyway these he's the number two guy on on the team and last year while it was his sophomore year it was his first year as a starting tight end in the NFL for the Cowboys where David Nujoku is headed into me. I believe it's year twenty two. Yeah he's only 20 years old though. Yeah he's amazing. He's very David Nujoku is still young for a tight end but it's just drafted at 12 years old. We we haven't seen it where his first year being the star he was the tight end eight and I think he can I think he can improve from he left a ton on the field. If you look at what his expected touchdown rate should have been for the amount of red zone work he received and and Dak has always used his tight end this way. So Dax number one tight end while they don't have a clear alpha wide receiver to like when it was Cooper and lay them together. There's a good role here. Now this still falls into the same category like when I say that I lean more on the side that David Nujoku is not going to be great. Not going to be that tight end one with with Watson. I'm not out on Nujoku or out on Ferguson. I like both but they are in the same category to me of like I just don't care that much about the this level of Titan. I want to view this as a streaming position. Tight ends are one of the best positions to like actually get a lot of points based on matchup and playing the matchup. I mean we forget that it wasn't just the flacco thing for Nujoku but we knew that his upcoming schedule against the tight end was like he played like the six worst defenses against tight end in a row. So Ferguson falls into that category for me. I like him. He's got upside with the touchdowns. He let all tight ends 25 targets in the red zone. Yeah. Talk about a different kind of player than Nujoku from an athletic profile. Oh yeah. But he's taught you know like Nujoka is off the charts and all of the major explosiveness and quickness and speed. Ferguson is not bad. He's just he prototypes as a touchdown dependent potentially great red zone target on a great offense and should not be ignored. Do you Andy. You're more I Andy. You're more in on Nujoku than we are. Do you. Who. Who do you feel like has the better probability of of hitting 10 touchdowns. Jake Ferguson. OK. Yeah I am really trying. I mean in this conversation all the conversations on the offseason I'm trying to like like wash away any bias I have from like I jumped on the back of David Nujoku and wrote that I wrote that stallion into a championship. He didn't even feel you. That's how strong I know he had no clue. I was there. You was a fly on his back. But I mean like middle of last year with the schedule. And again we part of the in season tools that we provide is the strength of schedule and the the projections of where weaknesses are tied in and it takes time to accumulate and you can not go into the year and project every defense from last year to be the same have the same weaknesses. It always changes. So it takes two or three weeks a lot easier. Yeah it takes two or three weeks at least to identify it normally four or five to get real meaningful data. And then you make those midseason adjustments and both Nujoku and Ferguson fit into that category of one if you take them don't stay hyper committed if it's not working out. And in Jason's case like maybe it's just not worth the mid round commitment if you can take a shot at it. But if you're not sure what else and if you like an upside talent later we need to move on to a chaotic number number eight Kyle Pitts. Yeah this is the one I said incorrectly was seven. This is the interesting one. Who's taking the shot on a nice Kyle Pitts selection. Yeah. I mean Kyle Pitts is it's all about embracing the chaos if you take Kyle Pitts. It's not. He's a fifth round pick. I mean that's gonna make it hard to do. He could be the best pick and the be the number one tight end. Yeah. No. I want to say yes. Mm hmm. Man. What have you said no. I'm gonna say no. Yeah that's what I would do. Man. Otherwise you're the guy who said yes to that. And that's not. I mean Kyle Pitts is a new offense new quarterback yards as a rookie. Yeah. A thousand. But he couldn't turn left last year. You know. I mean you saw that in his film like he was still struggling with the knee. So if if he's fully Zoolander. Yeah he is. So if he's fully healthy. He had he had fewer yards the last two years combined than his rookie season. Yeah. And you you really felt it. You saw it. He didn't look that great. I can't turn left. We're still hung up on and I guess I just don't know if it's rightfully hung up like he is not yet 24 years old. This is a young young player who genuinely is the best tight end prospect I've ever seen. Who among us wouldn't want to be the one that drafted him and got what you wanted. Oh man. That's the tantalizing prospect of Kyle Pitts is he could be a league winner for where he's going. He's being drafted you know is whatever the is he really being drafted as the tight end. Yeah he is. And right now we all have been below that. We have him at seven. I have him at seven. Mike at eight Jason at nine. But I would like to pay them a joke. Yeah. Comfortable with that risk. He's looking back just trying to remember. I know injuries play into it but as a rookie he had he had Matt Ryan. He had a great quarterback and then he's had just pure trash. If you watch Desmond Ritter play preseason football you you might not know how trash it was but it was trash and Kirk. It comes down to Kirk Cousins and your belief in the recovery of his Achilles and the new coaching philosophy that I believe Kyle Pitts is a very difficult player because the the emotional destruction of the last two years from Kyle Pitts has been immense. But he is like he you want to find athleticism in a tight end. You're not going to find more than Kyle Pitts. And you ask about the offense and the pecking order because usually to be a very good a high end tight end is great for fantasy. You have to be there the number one target for the offense or the number two target for the offense doesn't work if you're beyond that. And he's scared of Darnell Mooney. That's the thing is like who's the number two target in this office. Obviously it's Drake London number one and then it very well could be Kyle Pitts. He can achieve that role. Whereas you know that that's where when we talk about Kittle it's a little harder because of all the people in front of him. You know if pits were to slide in a draft if you're in a draft where nobody is a believer and he's falling to the eighth round I will take a shot because I see the path for hi hi upside but I'm passing by him and I mean I haven't I have zero shares of him right now in the fifth this price is not I'm not doing it. Wait. So if I'm trying to get Kittle right and Kyle Pitts is being drafted before George Kittle. Yeah and that's no no no no no that's incorrect. Yeah no that's just flat out wrong. Yeah. All right. Well we'll take a break and talk about George Kittle in a minute. And our number seven tight end is being drafted behind Kyle Pitts. Number seven. This is a Travis. George Kittle & Evan Engram That would be George Kittle. I draft him before. Yeah Mike has been at five. Jason at seven. I'm at nine. I'm moving him up. We all have. We're all one. We all want the dust to settle. Now you could move him up and then I you stays. And then your opinion will revert. It isn't. It's actually the next time and we're going to talk about that I would I would personally much rather have Kittle over who we currently have at six. So. Yeah. OK. We'll get there. I mean. Just lump them together then. Yeah. Number number six. Number six. Evan Ingram we can talk about them both at the same time. Yeah. So I have higher. We. I believe we've got him as the mark of the beast. I believe we all have him at tight end six. Yeah. Which is how many Mark of the Beast references. Do you try to get it. It's just favorite. However many there are. I see in the beast. He's everywhere. If I see it I say it. I call it out. See something say something. OK. Even when it has to do with the beast. The beast. Look I was only a piece of it. OK. I'm only one of the six. Oh my. You say you were going to change. I am. I'm changing. So he's no longer going to be Mark of the Beast. I'll be six seven actually tracking it. Kyle. I just made that made that up. OK. All right. Kyle said 39 times. Don't do that. When you say stuff I believe it. Let us know when he hits six six six on the references. The beast of the Mark of the Beast. Squared. Oh OK. So George. George Kittle and Evan Ingram. Let's talk about those two guys and whether they should be drafted in that higher range area. Here's the thing with George Kittle. George Kittle I always want to say he's going to be inconsistent because his lows are low. When you know when they have a game plan that is not his. He can go out there and score one point four fantasy points zero point six fantasy points three point four like he'll just he's not he's a blocker that game. But also he is unbelievably great. And if you look back at the last three years he's been the Titan for the Titan three the Titan five top five all three years. And then you do have the built in like maybe Brandon I you does get traded. I'm in the opposite camp for sure. I want slow instead. Give me the tortoise. Evan Ingram was the Titan two last year. They lose Calvin Ridley. They don't know what they have in Brian Thomas yet. They don't have Zay Jones. I am all about getting the steadiness of Evan Ingram as opposed to the occasional Superman performances from George Kittle. Kittle had three times last year is the number one overall in a week. That's not Evan Ingram's game normally. But the volume is just outrageous. So I am on the Ingram side Mike. How do you weigh it. I have Kittle just one one spot ahead of because I don't have the numbers in front of me. I will see if we can pull those up. Jason is that your phone. No. What was what my phone Mike. I couldn't let that one go. It was too long. Some other shows may edit some other shows may hide what we shame here on the fantasy footballer. No idea what you're talking about. And why is your laptop ringing. Why do you have your laptop ring like I don't know how to make my laptop stop calling when I get a phone call comes through my laptop. How do I turn it up and hold it up like a phone. I'm in the cinema. Oh man. Yeah. No someone after the show show me how to turn that. Why do you do that. Apple. Why do you know what's the answer. Phone call on their laptop. We always say if somebody doesn't mute something. Yeah. Sound comes through that you get slimed like Nickelodeon like it drops from the rafters. Like if we had that. It would be great. That would be so fantastic. And so what I was going to bring up was like since Brock Purdy has been the quarterback like George Kittle had a couple games of course last year but he was let's see what's his he's a be in consistency for us. Same as having an anger despite all those targets and and the his upside is just it's greater than having an anger. Ingram is not a touchdown guy. It's not part of it. And the concerns of when he went turbo over the over the second half of last year talking about Evan Ingram it aligned perfectly with when Christian Kirk missed time because Kirk can take those underneath routes as well. So that that's where the tiebreaker. No I look it's I like it makes sense. If you're in a PPR. No you have historically hated him and I've always loved him. Oh that's dare you. That's exactly if you go back to the archives mute and then play them on mute you will hear that. Just under 40 percent of Evan Ingram's total points last year came in three games. He had that outrageously high twenty seven point game where he had the multiple touchdowns. You know he basically had three monstrous weeks but he had a lot of that season where he was on you. He was just not that great for fantasy. It's fair. I mean he had it's a really weird situation between the two because he almost he literally almost doubled George Kittles reception. Like Kittles at sixty five. Ingram was at one fourteen. And yet you're right. I mean it is a different recipe and maybe maybe the steadiness of Ingram is not what you're looking for. It just depends on like what's the draft cost difference. It's about around different. Like if Ingram slipped into the seventh round and I can get that instead of paying for Kittle that's just my personal. These names are why I think it's important in for the footland out there. I think you should get one of the next five. We're talking just real quick to because Evan did finish as the tight end to in a half point scoring format with a hundred and seventy three points. Georgey Porgy was tied in five with a hundred and seventy points and he didn't play in week eighteen like. Yeah. I mean if Kittle had played the final week of the season and given one of his vintage garbage performances he probably would have finished as the tight end to well and not only that but Evan Ingram in that final week wasn't that the way they were going for the record. They were manufacturing him trying to get him the record. So a lot of his fantasy points when he was the tight end one that week were like look I will not stand for this Ingram horse garbage. Time is a flat circle. It is. Number five. All right. We're going to blitz these top five because you know the names and just say something interesting about them and we'll go through them. Dalton Kincaid And Dalton King K comes in at number five for Jason and I Mike at seven. There are a lot of questions in the offense in terms of what are you. I'm my number seven. Yeah. Yes I am. He's he's looking down upon you with his. I do not. I in less George Kittle has an outlier touchdown season. I don't see these five not finishing these five barring injury like they they're established to me. It's a huge tier. Do you see what he sees. No Mike does not. I think that kiddo is fine. Or not kiddo. I'm sorry. Don't concede is like the ADP is fine. If you want to take the chance that he really is the number one guy for for Josh Allen then he will pay off massively. But if he just is you know kind of the mixed in and he's sort of the leader of the passing attack and then it will just be an OK pick. Number four. He's on the he's on the back wall today. Trey McBride comes in at number four. He is my number one. Trey McBride Three tight end Jason's five and Mike's number one overall tight end for we ride for McBride. You are on the Trey McBride. It was such an impressive into the season for Trey McBride. End of the year 81 for 825 and three didn't have target competition in the offense. He does now. Yeah. Across you know second year of Michael Wilson and then obviously Marvin Harrison and Z Jones and the human dork. But McBride has got his role in this offense. It's just a matter of how high will he go. Yep. One is a very aggressive projection and raking for Trey McBride. I will not. It's as aggressive as a ranking can get. Yeah. Like I'm not going to say that it's it's not a like there not a lock like yeah for sure. But it's just that's where my numbers ended up because he was he came through to be the player that they thought they had drafted. He just took a little bit of time as it does for most tight ends. Last year he was second among tight ends and yards per route run was getting a huge target share. Yeah. If if Marv eats into the target share that's fine because the offense will be better. Far more scoring opportunities. Far more opportunities for actual red zone targets. And like they designed screens for the guy. This he is he is a full well rounded pass catcher who is not just I'm going to catch it and fall down. So I'm going to make a really strong aggressive catch and then I'm going to try and yak from weeks 10 on which are the the Kyler Murray weeks last year. I don't know no Marv there yet. But he was on a 17 game pace with Kyler of 112 receptions. That is outlandish close to England. Except the athleticism and the tackle breaking ability to do something with it. There's another straight just this is worked it in. So worked it in. All right. So McBride at four number three. Andrews comes in at three Jason Mike have met two. I got him at five right now. Mark Andrews It's just a little bit of a lack of confidence on the week to week of what Baltimore's offense is going to be. But Andrews has been as consistent like it's other than in then saying that this guy is dealt with injury which which has happened. It's you can't really hold any argument against him from a consistency standpoint. Even in the games he played last year he didn't take a hit on yards per reception. He was still involved. He's always been a touchdown score. He's going to be a go to player on the end zone. And they don't have anybody else. So he has hit since the breakout of year two from Mark Andrews. He's posted double digit points per game in every single season. Like he is maybe he's five. But like Andrews feels locked in. The only thing that can take Andrews out of this is injury. Yeah. If he's on the field he's in your lineup. You score and you 10 plus points. That's that's very rare at the tight end position. Sam LaPorta Number two. Last year's impressive. Shocking breaking Jason's brain rookie Sam LaPorta. Who finished at number one comes in at number two on our rankings. I've got him at two Jason and Mike both at three most receptions as a rookie tied ground for the most rookie receiving tight ends. Second most tight end first down second most routes run ever among rookie tight ends. And one thing I'll bring about about LaPorta and his chance to repeat because that is the big concern is touchdown regression which could happen. I mean it probably probabilistically it probabilistically. That is correct. It it should. You don't need to say just probably probably but he's trying to get probability in there. Oh I'm standing by it. I don't mind. You're standing by probabilistically. Yeah. I stand by it because I know what he means. So it's a word. Yeah that's not if I had said probably that you would not know what I mean. It's weak. I'm saying based on probabilities. Probabilistically is can I get. Can I get it with math. Can we get the doosers to weigh in here. I'll it's a word. No it's not. It is in a way. I don't even have the check. Yeah. Let's go ahead and there we go. I got you. Yeah. I was just using English. Yeah. It's a real word. Yeah. Probabilistically. Yeah because you might know exactly what I was talking about in a way based on or relates to how likely it is that something will happen. It's probably with math in it. Probabilistically. That's amazing. It's a mouthful. Yes. Especially with a fake tooth. Oh man. Eat it. Jason. That's here's the. Here's what I was going to get to because we've talked a lot about these players. The new insight on the port of to me is the fact that there are still reports from camp that they don't have enough in the receiving game. Yeah. That losing Josh Reynolds is going to be a bigger blow than they expect that Jameson Williams. He's explosive but he is not a possession receiver. And so I think Sam LaPorta like the offense doesn't function with that. Like it just doesn't like what made them great last year was very very much connected to what Sam LaPorta offers the offense and and there was nothing that you saw that was unrepeatable to me like you know Rob Gronkowski probably. Should not have scored double digits in touchdowns as many times as he did. But sometimes I feel like that one should have been probably that was there was no man. No no still the same. There was math in there. The problem is that now that's a different word. Problem is another is our same letters but different meaning. Gronk went from 10 to 15 sometimes he went from 10 to 13 times. So I just don't want to undermind what LaPorta did like punish punish him for doing for breaking records and then saying he's not an outlier like that is kind of what happens. You get tight ends that become touchdown machines. And you know I wouldn't want to bet a significant amount of money against LaPorta scoring double digits. The problems to get strictly that I have. Yeah. The problem is that he had 10 touchdowns on 889 yards over the last decade every single tight end with 10 touchdowns on fewer than 900 yards regressed in touchdown department all of them and not like they went from 10 to 9 to 10 to 11 to 2. Not like Bums. We're talking about Antonio Gates Jimmy Graham multiple times Mark Andrews George Kittle and they've gone from 12 to 5 12 to 5 10 to 2 11 to 2 like these are so it's just like I worry because of his utilization. I think he's he's a great player. He's super involved in the offense. He is going to be a very good fantasy asset. However he's often the first tight end drafted off the board. And I think the touchdown regression based on his utilization and his expectation that has me scared at the cost that he won't pay off there because where he's being drafted are obviously the best wide receivers and running backs that you're going to have to sacrifice for a tight end. What was the stat at the top of the tight end section. It was just the success. I didn't one through three. They hit they hit in the top five 60% I was a 60 so you just yeah 60% of the time that they finished top five. Yeah it's it's a good bet. The I'm not betting against La Porta for the season. I'm just I'm betting against his ADP of being the first guy drafted often in the second round. If he finishes if he finishes as the three where you had to draft him that will feel I think it'll feel fine. I think it'll be disappointing. Travis Kelsey number one man it's been a long long run for Travis Kelsey seven eight one one one one one two one three. Travis Kelce So if you want to case if you want a case of a guy finishing at three being disappointing look no further than what happened to you with Travis Kelsey last right. But he was also a shield lapper historically and that was what you felt as well and he was like the fifth pick in the draft. Yes. Yeah and the port is going where second 301. Yeah. Early third late second. Yeah I look I'm okay. I'm okay with that with the little Porta ADP. I'm okay with it. Okay. I wasn't okay in the second I'm okay but somewhere in the third Kelsey's at 302. You know those guys are back to back. I mean yeah on a on a per game basis last year pick Sam the Porta was over the course of the season was the tight end one but Travis Kelsey on a per game basis was the tight end one. So tight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he's right there with him. And I do think that there is positive regression coming for the Kansas the Kansas City Chiefs offense into just the total touchdowns scored offensively that will obviously be a lot to do with Travis Kelsey. You know he might be a better value this year than he was last year even if he finishes worse this year than he does last year which I expect. I expect him to not be as good as he was last year to still be outstanding. So it's just a matter for me. I like these top five guys I think all five could have a case to finish as the number one tight end. So I'm going to take those second and third round wide receivers and in the fourth fifth round I'm going to try to grab the value of one of those you know top guys that one of those guys that that that's just my personal strategy the Dalton concade Mark Andrews and Trey McBride. I think they're the best values that are still good because we haven't had this opportunity in recent years in recent years. It's like there's one or two guys and then you've got to punt the position forever. I think there's enough guys where those middle rounds the higher middle rounds the fourth and fifth you've got you've got security there and you're not sacrificing the same running back or wide receiver that you are elsewhere. Andy for Sam LaPorta is it because you're cool with the ADP. Let's say you're at 208 and so I mean ADP wise you're not slotted for him and the chance of him actually rounding the turning coming back to you at that point is very low. So if you're like if you're there and you want to gamble on the on the him coming back. OK. Yeah you wouldn't force the yeah I'm not going to force the issue. And to Jason's point like you do have security and more than one name which is also why you know if those three through five guys didn't exist I don't think I don't think Kelsey and LaPorta are going in the third round. Yeah I think that the demand for them and supply demand because of the differential would be higher. I mean Kelsey in the first round you had to I mean talk about expectation differences between you know one oh five and three oh five. I think that is a big gap in what you need from you had for two years ago in I mean 2022 Travis Kelsey was over 15 points a game and he finished this year at 11 and a half which in points we're going to was tied for number one like that's. I can't wait to see what happens. That's a shake up of the whole tight end market. One thing I will say in favor of Sam LaPorta and it's worth noting the UDK we talked about how much change over there is defensively. I always know that last year teams that are bad at tight end are going to be bad at tight end this year they might have solved for that. That being said it's still a useful tool to look at for the first three weeks because if you are going to stream the position look for some guys later but the combination of the questionable hamstring right now with Jameer Gibbs and the Detroit Lions have the second easiest first three games. You could draft LaPorta and get off to a really hot start that way. And if you want to just throw out some of the other names of the first three weeks hot starts for the you know your last round type of pick number one is Pittsburgh Steelers so that's Pat Friarmeuth number three you three you've got the Patriots with Hunter Henry. Do you have you guys have any. You listed those guys off but do you have any. Such 10th round plus tight ends that you are looking at that you feel like and sneak in maybe not five but I would say those two guys and then dart throw. So it's so don't even bring up. No no you want to save it for the my guy episode. This is the good stuff. Greg Dulcich. OK. I think he could. He also has a top five schedule in those first three weeks and that's a team that has not a lot of answers at the wide receiver position which is something you're looking for. Also Greg Dulcich is a tight end for the Denver Broncos. If you don't remember who Greg Dulcich I'll just say one name that I think could it might be the name Brock Bowers. Oh OK Brock Bowers is like when you talk about he's a seventh rounder or later and and or earlier. He's not making it that far. I. OK. Seven ten. All right. I was talking about like full on punts. No I'm bringing his name up because I didn't want to ignore it on the top 10 tight end show because I do think that there's great potential for Brock Bowers to line up as a wide receiver almost every play and and be a constant threat down the field. And and so I just you know he's nine oh nine on ESPN. Yes. Jason even later on a higher one. Just saying he could go either way. So depending on your platform and speaking hits versus Bowers. That's crazy to me. That's crazy. Really. Why do I want to go on the pitch right. OK. Let me make the argument for you. Right now you're talking about not rookie tight end who historically tight ends even the greatest aren't great. They're rookie year with the sole exception of Sam LaPorta and maybe Evan Ingram if you want to throw that out there or go all the way back to Jeremy Shockey and then don't in King K's performance last year would outperform pits. Also you're also you're talking about the quarterback position of Gardner Menchew and Aiden O'Connell throwing behind Devonte Adams versus yeah you can have pits dude. Oh yeah. He's yours. Pits versus Bowers. Yeah he's all yours. Pits versus Bowers bet. Far show. How much how much money. One thousand. Waterbed. Yeah we'll figure out the. I said speaking of platform and this is I have to say this. I have to choke through the humility of Taysum Hill needs to be on people's radar. It's it's awful. I hate it. I hate everything about it. Josh is back to celebrate because he's a Saints fan. But Dennis the menace loves Taysum Hill. Everybody who's ever met him and loves I don't know what it is but everybody loves him. He just must be. He can bench a lot and freaking squat a lot. Yeah. Pick up the UDK at ultimate draft kit dot com. Chance for the UDK for life. Friday live stream and then tickets going fast. There are a few lower level seats remaining at ballers live dot com. If you want to come see us in Los Angeles two weeks less than two weeks away presented by our friends at sleeper. We'll be doing some giveaways. It's going to be our 10th anniversary celebration chance to see the show live take part in a Q&A and it's going to be a big big time party. So you're going to love it. Ballers live dot com. Grab some tickets while there's a few remaining. That is going to do it for today's episode of the podcast. But don't worry. We're going to do another one tomorrow in the day after that and the day after that. See you then. Goodbye. Thank you for listening to another episode of the fantasy footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on join the foot dot com and follow us on Twitter at the FF ballers.