Episode #405 - Interview with Psychologist, Dr. Diane Strachowski

all right let's bring her in she is the back to love do on Instagram she is a multi-time guest on this show she is a relationship relationship expert and a licensed psychologist it's Dr Diane strowski Dr Diane thanks for coming on hello Steve how are you I'm good just wanted to bring you on since we are through Hometown dates of genen season and obviously we've had what seven episodes now of of her season and I kind of overall wanted to just ask you when you saw Jen was announced as the bachette as you've watched her first seven episodes your thoughts on Jen as a lead this season well um Steve I really like Jen and she is growing on me um at first I'll be honest with you I thought she was a little bit young uh you know a little more playful um I didn't expect much from her but I have to say um I always want to know more about the character I want to know more about her work her background Etc and we don't get as much as I'd love but she's definitely grown on me and I think she's really she has the skills to make everyone to make the men comfortable to get the men to open up and I think her training as a physician's assistant I mean you have to be an empathic person uh to really sit with patients who are ill Etc and I think her training in that area has really helped and I actually have been most impressed with how she's handled Sam how she handled Sam M so to me it was like you know people have been like why didn't why did he stay around as I'm like listen we've had leads who have kept even charity who was a therapist kept Xavier to Fantasy Suites so I was not surprised it took her that long but I really like her level of questioning she's good with followup like tell me more what do you mean and so I think she's got a nice level of empathy I think she did great with the parents too last night we're going to get to that but I really do think she's growing on me and I think um I'm hopeful one of the narratives surrounding Jen this season As Told To Us by her is just always picked the wrong guy right great relationship nobody's met her family she's never been in love nobody's ever told her I love you does that stem from something as simple as just a bad picker she has expressed the fact that she did not have a great relationship with her father and being a psychologist I'm sure you've dealt with patients that didn't have great relationships with their fathers and then it turns into they look for something in relationships to sort of replace that relationship they never had with their father what do you see about Jen's past that she's now bringing into any of these relationships well I that's what I pay attention to right from the beginning Steve um absolutely The Narrative about her dad not even knowing her birthday I was like oh my gosh poor thing right and so what's interesting is oftentimes back to attachment Styles we've talked about this before um when you have a parent who's there for you sometimes not other times what you get like addicted to is the working hard okay so if my parents not there and I have to work hard to get their attention then I learn that love is working hard so then I'm attracted to narcissists that are hard and right from the beginning she said she wants This ferocious love I'm like o okay what does that actually mean there's a little bit of I want it to be wild but I also um there there's something about this um uh I I I don't know that this wild meaning like ferocious uh being fun playful but but there is a level of work there and so that concerns me just a little bit because I want to know that she's healed that and then being able to say oh you kind of look like my ex that's not good for me that didn't work I haven't heard her talk about therapy at all I get the sense she's done some of it given her family history um but she hasn't referenced it directly like some of the other bachelorettes and Bachelors have so I'm I'm I would just be curious about that that's a question mark for me is is it something to wear that she is looking for is the word validation in men is that kind of what she's dealing with or is it something not that way she's not looking for validation because she seemingly never got any validation from her father yes you're looking for validation you're looking for someone who again is going to fight hard and I did a video myself on this like this is what worries me a little bit so when you say ferocious love and somebody fighting for you do you set yourself up for somebody who love bombs you then right because it's like oh I'm really looking for that right now what's also interesting is um you know a couple of the men it was Sam n and some and even Grant said he was falling in love with her and then she comes and says no one's ever been in love with me I'm like wait a minute they have on the show we just saw two examples of men professing their love but when it comes to love the only ones that really matter to us is when it's mutual right the only time it matters is when I Feel Love and then you express love back and we both agree so I thought that's why she got so excited when Devin said I love you and you saw her just like the smile on her face because I do think she's falling in love with Devon and you you could just see that mutuality and those are the ones that stick then right that's the time you remember being in love when it was Mutual yeah and I think that she is obviously someone who throughout her past dating history she has said I've never been in love She's had probably men tell her they love her in love with her she's never reciprocated it and she's always said I've been in rough relationships and you just wonder you know with somebody like that who has never been in a it sounds like just a healthy relationship if she I mean if she's never been in love then has she really ever been in a serious relationship my guess would be no can you be in a serious relationship if you've never been in love with somebody or is it just dating at that point yeah I dat him I liked him a lot but I wasn't love is it serious I think we we also have revisionistic history right we go back and um you know it's kind of like I I mean I myself maybe you could relate right you've had some relationships or later you're like what the hell was I thinking right um and then when we feel a level of love now we're comparing it to back then but we've sort of forgotten how we felt at the time because we wouldn't have stuck around had we not had any feelings but we go back and and somehow people want to be on the show and report that this is somehow like a new love right like love like they've never experienced because it happened so fast and uh and all of that so I I don't really think that we're good at giving our own history I don't because your friends will go oh my God you were so in love with them right uh we just kind of forget so I wanted to talk about Sam M before we get to the hometown day and he obviously been a major topic of conversation this year and I think for him I I don't like thrown word the word narcissism around it's just it's too deep of a word he just seems like somebody who obviously good-looking guy probably had it very easy with women his whole life yes because of his looks seems a little self-absorbed I think that's an a lighter term to use I don't want to throw Nar narcissism out there but he definitely thinks very highly of himself and pitted himself against Devin from the get-go and was in this competition to where and we've seen this in the past before where contestants on this show will say I can't believe they like that person if they like me we're totally different but it is possible for Jen to like Sam M and also like Devin and Marcus they're not the same all three of them it is possible to like that but he took it so personally and I just wanted to know your outside opinion just obviously off an edited version of this television show what you thought of Sam well I like that and I'm exactly with you because narcissism is a loaded topic and we would have to see a pervasive pattern and we're just getting Snippets and again it's highly edited um but I went back and I looked at a lot of the clips from Sam and from night one he was pretty he was dishan on the guys really negative guys were coming out of the limo he had something negative to say about a lot of them and so it just felt a little bit mean to me like sort of like the Mean Girls it's kind of like the mean guy but what's also interesting is that Sam in every single group date he says I've got this right and even he does the coming out of the limo he did the shot a clock thing which okay lots of people have done but he didn't bring a shot right he talked about it but there was no Behavior and then there was someone else who also brought the shot of clock and brought the little uh injectors right with like alcohol and I thought that's how you do shot a clock you you actually have something so to me it's like Sam's a lot of talk not a lot of action same thing in the strip te's he's talking about this is my thing I got this and like in the practice he looked better than he did on stage it's like Sam there's something cringe there and I saw a couple of moments where I thought Jen got the ick for sure like she was attracted to him but remember also those girls the other previous bachelorettes they said be careful don't choose the hot guy and I think that really stuck with Jen and she's like yes he reminds me of people I've I've seen this movie before but a lot of talk I'm great at this uh every single date at the beginning this is my thing and then I was just underwhelmed so a lot of ego inflation right lots of talking about himself and not a lot of awareness because then when we see that radio date in particular which had a lot of cringe moments um at one point you know later when she comes to him before she sends him home he's like tripping over his words he can't get it out he's like there's like a lot of word salad we can't quite make out lots of words but I'm not even sure what Sam's saying yeah it just really seems like whether it was just grasping at straws because maybe he knew he was going home but to throw out the I'm in Love with You card where based on the conversations that we saw her and him I mean everybody could see it this was a clearly physical relationship where they clearly were physically attracted to each other but when they did have convers ation just didn't seem to be a lot of meat on that bone didn't seem to be a lot of substance to it it was just two people that were talking and when he did talk as I've mentioned a couple times it was just about it was about him it was about him and it was about certain things that are happening and seems like he was taking memes from Nicholas spark books and quotes from all these different things he found online it just didn't seem sincere agreed yeah I felt like Sam was auditioning to become the bachelor I do I I mean and you know they did a whole promo on him right he's from South Carolina yeah right uh Carpenter all of that and um yeah I I I just agree it it felt um just devoid of real substance and and Jen saw through that and um that's how I think she handled herself really well and I thought we're like seeing this girl mature in front of her eyes because calling that person out I think is really just like a confidence booster you've got crazy chemistry he got the first impression Rose and now she's saying I need more than that um and I think it's going to be interesting because um to me it's like she's calling out Sam but she's not calling out Marcus he hasn't even gotten to how he feels about her and I'm like is she going to be able to call him out because I think there's a different Dynamic going on there so if we go to Hometown dates and we kind of break it down let's go kind of in order of what happened Devon's Hometown date was running which I'm sure no lead wants to do I don't care what what face she put on and maybe she likes Devon the best nobody wants to run it looked hot and sweaty I don't even think I don't even think Runners I don't even think runers truly like running I think they just they like the effect it has on their body but I yes to enjoy running for however long they ran for I mean they in Texas yeah yeah in Houston which is a sauna basically yeah um but so let's get to the part of the date that actually meant something which was his family his conversation with his mother Devin said from the very beginning of this show I'm a loud guy like to be the center of attention he's stayed true to that character for seven episodes I mean he is very loud speaks his mind um didn't have another another person that is on the show didn't have a great relationship with his father even though his father was at the hometown date so it was his mother and her new husband or I don't know how long they've been married but his stepfather so we never heard I mean even though his father was there surprised that we never got any clips of him talking to his father about I I might have blanked in the background for me Tito yeah te Teo Teo excuse me Teo um we did and in fact um while I was watching this Steve I thought I when the mother watches this back I wonder what she's gonna think of it because I thought I saw Devin backtracking a little bit saying dad you know you've been so influential and I'm like oh no that's not what we had heard prior to that so I felt like he really was kind of in a bind and I'd wondered if that's why he wasn't so so nervous um because his mom is his cheerleader clearly they have a strong relationship I really like the mom she was really humble um and that that tracked for me but telling his dad what an influence he had I was like o how's the mom gonna feel I so I thought that that was um that was his anxiety walking in was dad being there okay I'll be honest I think my food arrived during Devon's date and so I it was on but I was eating and probably wasn't paying too much attention so my mistake there but he had he seems to have a really good relationship with his ROM um yes respected her appreciated what she had done for him and growing up so good to hear and you mentioned it earlier and it's it's interesting because Devin was the only one of the four and he didn't you know to drop the L word and he didn't drop I feel myself falling in love with he drop I can see myself falling in love with you he said Jen I love you yeah which is a big thing on this show especially when the three Hometown dates right after him they couldn't even throw the word l in there and they couldn't even say I can see myself going there there with you you know I'm not there yet but I can totally see it's just it was really weird but that's that's a big thing and like you said Jen's reaction I think her reaction tells it all but I actually found myself very endeared to Devin I mean I I felt like the producers gave him a bad rap right from the beginning because he did steal Jen on that group date and Sam was so against him but I I I think and and even on that sheep date remember that he kind of pulled her aside and then he got extra time that's what the lead should be doing and I think he's so nervous because he cares he really you know also said I want to bring somebody home that I'm proud of and correct the wrongs and so that is a a narrative that they both have joined around the single mom single strong mom want you know not having a relationship with a father even though dad's showing up late now um and so I think that's really where they as a couple have really been bonding around that narrative about you know life is hard and they want to do it differently um and there was actually that little moment where I did feel bad for the mom when Jen was talking about that like you know wanting to do it different and what I loved about mom was she was not defensive at all she was very humble she said you know hey I wasn't perfect but I found love now and um you know again Devon was so nervous even walking in he's like saying who they're gonna meet and then just Jen's like and your stepdad is there too like she's paying attention and Devon was like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah um so I love that the grandmother was like love you I mean I think it was just a lovely Hometown and and I thought the mom she really shined you know what do you love about my son what stands out of course all parents are nervous we're going to get to that like what to do or what not to do um but but I thought Devon's mom was exactly who he said she was supportive loving kind gracious you saw the connection I really like this Hometown now for the second Hometown with Jeremy there were two things that stuck out to me one thing that's just a big pet peeve of mine and I think people need to stop saying it on the show and then we'll get to what his mother thought of the whole situation the first thing is I am starting to get sick of contestants and I feel like we get at least one every season if not multiple every season that will utter this line I only want to be engaged once I only want to be married once it's like it's almost I think we kind of know that as a as an audience you don't need to say that to make it sound more important I don't think because I don't think anybody goes into an engagement and a marriage thinking yeah this will probably be one of two or one of three in my life I I don't care about it's like of course you want to be engaged once let's stop and when you think about it on this show Jen season is the 49th season of this show there have been way more broken engagements than engagement so to say it on this show makes it even more it just Rings Hollow to me and I think people just need to stop saying it we get it you don't want to be I 100% agree Steve it's like I've had it with that and it's the same thing like nobody enters into a marriage thinking they're going to get divorced I mean it it goes without saying yeah um so I think what the person's trying to do is I'm taking this process seriously right that's what they're really saying and by saying I only want to do this once that's how to let you know that I'm not here for the wrong reasons right but there's other ways you could say it I agree yeah just yeah like I said pet peeve of mine drives me nuts and I feel like at least one person a season says it if not the lead saying it like I only want to do this once of course and it's and it's it's different for the lead it's almost more ridiculous when the lead says it because the statistics show more often than not it's not going to work out for you right and we all know every Bachelorette she's the 21st Bachelorette even though we've had 23 every single one of them's gotten engaged at the end of this thing yeah so yeah um and I think only seven or eight have ended up getting married except for one genen cheft but you know what I'm saying like two-thirds of them end up in a broken engagement so to say I only want to be engaged once when you're the lead of the show is just just throw that aside and just stop saying that agreed the second thing was the mother who was very skeptical and we're we're starting to see this more Hometown dates and recent Seasons more skeptical parents about the process how fast it is is my child ready uh to do this and I don't think any kid any child on the show is ready to get engaged to someone that they've known for seven weeks where they don't spend a lot of time with them but some parents express it a little bit more than other parents do other parents say I trust my child and if this is what they feel I will support them yes I saw an interview with Jeremy today where he said look I don't regret anything that happened on my hometown date I don't my mom did not ruin anything for me oh good okay I'm happy hear that he did say that okay but I think maybe he was just being realistic and maybe he didn't want to say it in the interview just like look I kind of knew she wasn't picking me anyway so that's why I don't think my mom ruined anything but he didn't he didn't go there but he did say my mom didn't ruin anything for me again as a mother um with when you're watching her as a mother what do you feel about her and how she reacted to the whole situation well first off um I've got two grown stepsons and I I've oftentimes thought oh my gosh if I was on the show what would I do and having watched so many Hometown visits I do think to your point Steve there's right mix of saying I trust you and if it doesn't work I'm going to be here for you but I think to comment on the Rel reltionship what I personally as a pet peeve I hate when people say and she did this a couple of times well I just met you that's another like I only want to be married once like you can have a quick opinion it takes us 15 seconds by the way in a first encounter with someone to form an impression so to say I just met you or I haven't talked with you enough it's like you're getting the same amount of time that everybody else does um I just that to me felt a little bit Hollow and then keep bringing it back to her and her anxiety and then saying this isn't a game this is serious that to me again felt like oh Mom you know no maybe she didn't mess it up um but I do think that you could at least help your kid make the hometown date neutral and this to me really did have more of a negative than a positive because Jen herself said you know the mom skeptical so I'm really basing it based upon Jen's reaction to the mother who pretty much said like how do you move forward I mean we've saw this even with Rachel and Tino right and and it that was a big deal how do you move forward when the parents are negative and and it it does end well so my advice to the parents is just you could say I don't get this this process is weird it's so fast but I trust my kid and I hope they don't get heartbreaking I love to see you this is a loving relationship you look great and if it doesn't work we're gonna be here that that's the best I think you can do yeah yeah and I think people appreciate sometimes when the parents are honest on the show and they question fast this becomes sure it's just when you're watching it sometimes it's a little cringey to watch because you feel like the parents are getting in the way and it should just be a little more like you said neutral is well probably has to handle it so Steve now this is just my take on it but Jeremy himself says you don't have to be Jewish and that's okay but I wondered if that wasn't something that the mom was picking up on yeah it's very possible because in Jewish homes usually it's the mother who is you know creating the Judaism in the family I mean correct me if I'm wrong but most of the time it's it's the mother's kind of Heritage and if so she if she was hoping to have you know Jewish grandchildren and religion is an issue then again even though Jeremy has softened that I just kind of wondered if there was something more there that we didn't hear or see um you know because Jen is completely lovely and you know I I didn't hear anything else but i' I'd wondered if that wasn't mom's wish or desire yeah and it could have been and this was the first season that even the Jewish religion was discussed on a day when Jeremy had his one-on-one with Jen we've just never even heard a conversation like that before where it was discussed in detail they were talking about children and she said I'm I'm Buddhist well Jewish it was Zach season um Ariel yes Ariel that's right Ariel did talk about it on on Zach season they did a whole Jewish dinner right they did exactly so I'm thinking we have kind of talked about it um but yes I was I what I liked is how as a couple they were talking about blending Buddhism Judaism a and again it's one thing for kids to talk about it it's another for If the parents are more traditional to understand how that's going to work yeah when I look at Jonathan's Hometown date yep the really thing the main thing that stuck out to me was again another guy hey past relationship got really burned yes and really struggle saying that word everything with the family seemed to go fine with them they liked her she liked the family and they go outside they sit in the backyard y Jonathan comes up with this you know he starts blushing and she she wants to get it out of him she wants him to say the LW in some form or fashion yes and he makes this big Proclamation which is I'm falling for you I'm like in the context of this show that is so low bar especially when we've already had a guy tell her I love you Jen and this guy at Hometown age you're down to the final four and all you could muster up is I'm falling for you now look I don't want to shame Jonathan for not using the LW but I think if you go on this show you have to have this expectation of man I need to get there quicker and if I don't I'm probably not gonna make it yes maybe it is people will see it as some of the men are just telling her what they think she wants to hear and what would make good television and what might make a good love story maybe some of them are Forward Thinking of how this is going to look on television but but just saying I'm falling for you when you're at Hometown dates just it wasn't enough and it fell so flat she had to have been like you know and she repeated I'm falling for you too it's like but what does that mean in this show I'm falling for you what does that mean falling in like with you like I don't know it's just it's not big enough for this show I agree Stephen I don't think um this isn't uh Clayton you know where he's really in love with three women I don't think that at all I I don't see I I think Jen is in love with Devon and um that feels really good because they have a lot in common but I don't really see that I did like Jonathan's mom a lot the brother was skeptical uh what I thought was interesting is there was the uh sister-in-law who was really compensating like I think she knew her husband was skeptical right from the beginning and she's like we met on Tinder and we said I love you in three days and you know she was trying to connect with Jen and and really ease that through and then the brother was like oh this is my baby brother and he was the skeptical one but the mom was lovely and said I really like Jen and there was a really nice connection mom was really listening saying you adore my son and um I thought Jonathan um even playing lacrosse at the beginning that was really sweet um I feel like it's not so romantic to me it just feels more playful feels more like brother sister somehow I'm not getting huge romance Vibes with Jonathan even though they're trying right with the rain on the on the date but I I just don't I don't feel it I I think one of the things we also got to remember when we watch this show and I think people just tend to forget this is that like the cast of Men chosen for Jen is not number one it's not we're looking to cast the 25 most perfect fits for our lead they're casting a television show but the other thing is they're also casting just a wide net of men who want to be on TV and it's like it's not like these are 25 men that Jen has spoken to in her life before it's just like you show up the first night here's who we've chosen for you to choose from Jen so it's like it's more realistic that as to why things don't work out because you're relying on a casting Department to determine who's your best Suitor out of these 25 and like I've always said the ending is just you're just choosing who you liked the most out of the group that was chosen for you you had no say in choosing these men it's just here's the men who do you like the best and then go from there and and that's where we kind of end up with Marcus in the last Hometown date the thing that I found most interesting about this date was and maybe his adoptive parents couldn't make it maybe they just they had something else going on I found that to be kind of a big deal when his adoptive parents didn't make the date and the only blood he had on the date was his sister he had one of his army ranger buddies there he had a couple that I guess took him in after he got back from the army that he's very close with but Jen saying I can see myself fitting in with this family you didn't meet his family you met his sister and you didn't even meet his parents you never spoke to his parents as far as we know unless they had a zoom call off camera that we didn't that wasn't shown and like I said I don't want to shame the family for not showing up they probably had their reasons but I don't know if it was because we don't want to be a part of this or we couldn't make it out with our schedule you know just the the idea of Marcus having his hometown date in Tacoma Washington when the guy lives in North Carolina it's the other end of it's the other end of the map like they're not even so I didn't even really understand I think parents have to be a part of this Hometown date for me to take it seriously and I don't know what their reasoning was but for that for that matter I just I can't take the Marcus relationship seriously at all I I'm I'm not disagreeing um in fact to me this might feel harsh but it felt like inviting all those friends which was trying to like overcompensate for that like let's throw a party I don't think I've ever seen I was thinking in all the hometowns that I've ever seen all these extra people I mean maybe of course there's grandparents and aunts and uncles or something but I've never seen this let's throw a party so you know it's like Jen's walking into this and it seemed a little bit kind of shocking and it's good to know that like wow you have a lot of friends right that implies somehow that lots of people like you and that you're social but um I didn't feel like it was very intimate and I didn't feel like it really moved their relationship forward because you're not getting that kind of information and knowing Devon in his army training or even post it's not the same as knowing someone obviously when they were younger or growing up and we do have to just pause for a moment because devan's sad story about his parents marus you mean Marcus oh I'm sorry I'm sorry sorry Marcus yeah Marcus's parents dropping him off at daycare and never coming back oh my God what a story and in and out of foster care homes where they were going to different families and basically him saying like we just they would just return us like it was a like they were toys Steve I've worked at these places I've worked at a place called Eastfield mwang in California where we work with residential kids who don't have parents and it's so sad and they're so wounded and um it's like that and then going into the military with that trauma and his uh injury uh you know it it's it's just it's a it's a sad story it really is it's a tough tough wounded story and so that's where I'm like what is the dynamic going on here because I he's just a big mystery and I'm I'm I'm kind of surprised he's still there to be honest with you yeah he's someone that when you look at it another one just like Jonathan but he's been a little more OT he's easily the most emotional man yes this season has been brought to tears I think on every date he's been a part of at some point and another guy having a very hard time opening up and dropping the L word and he said the same exact thing that Jonathan is I'm falling for you and again it just was like okay well what does that mean at this point you can you you need to be a little bit more wordy than that or at least say the L word but don't say I love you just right say I'm falling in love with you can see myself falling in love with you in the future and excited to see where this goes you know some generic line but to say I'm falling for you like like you said with Jonathan it just it seems to fall a little bit Hollow and it's just okay but what does that even mean in in the in the context of this show you know I just I don't know yeah and I was really because to your point Steve the only family is sister and um she I felt like was ALS also really filtering her words and trying to be very careful of what she said but then there is that moment where Marcus and his sister are talking and he chokes up about wanting to be a dad and um you know they've really been through trauma together and um I I get worried about people with that kind of background being on shows like this I just I I worry for their vulnerability and I'm sure you know there's a lot that's also come out about Marcus and there's a lot of the subreddits and we won't even get into that but um yeah you know I you know it goes without saying and it's also cliche people say oh you need therapy it's like but but to be on a reality show I just don't know the Readiness the Readiness for truly being present uh to someone like Jen yeah and and that's on Marcus's end as a casting director for the show he's gold because this is we've seen they love putting people on dates who have traumatic passs because they I don't know if they want to I don't know if the word exploit is something that we if you want to use it that way but it just seems like the people who do get one-on-one dates all have some sort of trauma in their past it's very rare that we get someone who has a one-on-one date who hasn't had any issues with family in the past or struggled with anything and just like you know what my life's been pretty cool 25 years old things are going great got a great job great friends it's just everybody's got to have a story and it almost seems like you come across boring if you don't have a story whereas people who don't have a story might not be boring but for this show you know you've got you've got his story you've got um you know didn't really have anything traumatic in his past that we that we no that we know of but you know Devin not having a great relationship with his father we got Marcus and his situation and being in and out of foster homes and um I think even Jonathan talking about his ex who really uh I think he said was substance abuse or maybe that was or and Grant our next Bachelor who was he the one that didn't have father was an alcoholic father was an alcoholic you know just and I actually like that Grant talked about kind of like confronting his dad for making excuses and then Dad got into rehab and I'm like oh good on Grant like he seemed like he's handled that well yeah it just seems like yeah you almost have to have drama in your past to get cast on the show if you're just too normal but but in real life Steve my advice to people is boring is good right yeah boring is good uh it doesn't make for great TV but makes for a good relationship because life itself is going to provide you with context and drama uh you don't need uh you know the police coming or some other kind of you know real toxicity uh you don't want that in real life um wanted to kind of end with these couple things first off we just mentioned him briefly but Grant as the next Bachelor yes I think we're fine with him as a as a contestant as our Bachelor lead the way it was brought out very suspect I mean they've never announced their lead the way they did which was on the internet first and then uh it it took till the show ending on the west coast before their social media accounts even promoted him as the next Bachelor he still hasn't done he did Nick's podcast so I guess that's his first foray into hey this is who I am he got a hot seat on the mentel all which we'll see next Tuesday so that'll be his first interview for people who don't listen to Nick's podcast that'll be his first like Bachelor Nation type interview and we'll get to know him a little bit more I'm fine with him H as the lead um this franchise when they were thrown under the bus by the LA Times back in May uh for their horrible lack of diversity on this show I think that had a lot to do um I'm not saying this was some sort of token selection as the bachelor but when they when an executive producer of the show said back in May to the LA Times if you don't want to see Asian representation if you don't want to see interracial love if you you don't want to see black people falling in love on the show then maybe Bachelor Nation isn't for you I kind of knew we weren't going to be rolled out with another white lead in September it just it would have rang very very Hollow for them to literally tell that to the LA Times on a piece where they were crucified for their lack of diversity on the show and then roll us out another straight white guy you know it just right so I don't want to take anything away from Grant but don't tell me that didn't play a role in why he was cast and look this is only our second male uh person of color to be the lead they admitted they absolutely failed Matt James oh yeah as bad as you could so let's see them like people can say it's performative or whatever but at least they're trying because if they did roll out another white leag be like okay where's the diversity on this show well what I like is that people do learn from one another and I think the best if I was going to go on the show and be the lead I would just watch previous Seasons see what I liked what I didn't kind of like when charity came on to Jen hey I wrote lists and you know you give advice and you learn things and my only hope about I didn't like how they announced it it was very lackluster Grant deserved more hopefully they'll there'll be some retribution and he'll get a bigger spot um you know get him on Good Morning America do what we normally do um but the one thing I did consider and you heard this The Producers said that they didn't want what happened to Jen to happen to Grant which was the guys didn't know who they were coming out of the limo for yeah and we saw that with Sam right saying I didn't know if it was going to be Daisy I didn't know if it was gonna be Maria and and I really didn't like that it wasn't fair to Jen and it's not going to be fair to Grant if you don't know who the lead is and he's saying I want you to know it's me and sign up for me so I like that premise but they still could have handled the announcement better and just give people more time because if I'm going to go on the show I want to know who the lead is yeah and for the most part most seasons they don't know until they've already been selected as a contestant and they just have to kind of go with it and right that's why this whole here for the right reason thing is a legit concern or a legit uh gripe that the Fran people have with the franchise because it just most contestants go on and they've been told you have been selected and they don't find out until they're a the lead is announced at the after the final Rose I I want to end with this and this is something that took off last year with Gary as our golden Bachelor we have Joan as the golden Bachelorette starting up in a couple weeks uh from now on September 18th yes I believe is our open you watch Gary season and now we've got a a woman leading this show the golden Bachelorette and your thoughts on why do you think that show Gary season resonated the most watched season this show has put out since Co since 2020 was Gary's season broke all sorts of ratings records for this show and now do you think we're gonna have the same sentiment why do you think it resonated with people and yeah we had an uptick when Joey aired and and and um who was our last B you know chity last season but Joan do you think do do we are we thinking hey this is going to continue and Joan's going to get the same response does does Gary and Teresa's marriage failing after three months have an effect on Joan's season and people be like okay well we saw what happened last time no matter how in love they looked they couldn't even last three months or do we think it's just you know what I think I want to watch this because it does seem a little more pure well I I think back to your question why did it take off so big because the people watching TV and not Hulu Etc to get the our older people I mean that that don't you know that have cable that are watching the shows and are interested in it and it's a a low bar it could be fun you could watch with your women friends you could have watch parties I knew a lot of people who had never watched the show before who suddenly tuned in my own mother you know was watching it and really interested in it I loved everything about it I did I thought they should have helped them travel they should have gotten a longer season I I think there were things they could have done in normal Bachelor fashion that would have made it even better but I just think they had no idea now what I like about Joan and I'm in the DMS with Joan I was early on and she said somewhere in an interview though I'm not gonna make the same mistake that Gary and Teresa met made she's not in a rush to get married and I think what was really smart is choosing someone slightly younger she's 60 some of these other women were 70 and Beyond and I think actually a little bit of that pressure comes from life is short if life expectancy is to 85 you know we should get going with this and so I kind of feel well there's also a huge gap right we're going from 20 30 year olds to even 60 year olds what about the 40 the 50 year olds right like where's the silver Bachelor I still think there's a show there for those people um but I think Jones is going to be wise she's already you know privy to social media she had already done some really cute Tik toks and videos I think she's really smart and I had thought that Joan took herself out early I know that the daughter had postpartum depression and she left but I actually think she just wasn't feeling it for Gary And she left and she did with such Poise and she's an elegant woman and I think they chose just looking at at the men I think they chose some great men educated men successful men they all look like you know they're coming out of a Banana Republic ad but um I I like the men that I've seen thus far I'm excited yeah and just kind of bring this back to Grant the fact that they announce Grant on the internet Monday night after the show ends and the very next day we get Jones men a two and a half minute video on the golden Bachelor ABC Instagram account where we're getting to hear them talk we're getting to hear them speak and and just it's just like you didn't even obviously you're not going to announce grants women because you haven't chosen all of them yet but announcing Grant on Monday night and then dropping Jones men the next day it's just like okay where are their priorities here do they even want to focus on Grant season so that's that's obviously an issue in it well and I do think right we have you know no Bachelor in Paradise right we have I I don't know I'd be curious and I don't know um what's going to happen even like next year because so let's say the golden Bachelorette does really well um are we going to we're going to have Bachelor in Paradise and then golden Bachelor Bachelorette because now we're talking about a lot of Seasons here and they just need more people to film all of that I can only imagine that's like a daunting thing it could be a good problem to have if it becomes popular yeah so Grant season will film September to November and start airing in January then The Bachelorette I'm assuming will come from Grant season that'll film march to May right Paradise films in June but Paradise airs septe I mean right Paradise airs after Bachelorette we know we're having Paradise next year so if there is a golden Bachelor or a golden Bachelorette next season it would have to film either July or August of 2025 and then it would air I don't think they're going to do the same thing they did in season one of golden Bacher where it's golden Bacher for an hour followed by Paradise it looks like it would be we're going to air Paradise and then if we're going to have a fourth season from our franchise air in a calendar year looks like that would have to air November end of October to December it's almost too much I think the only Gap that there really is is when Bachelor to Bachelorette there is a gap because yeah two months Gap two month Gap there so that my only thinking is that we kind of instead of squeezing it at the end of the year do they get it in someplace else because maybe you put golden Bachelor so you do Bachelor golden Bachelor then then then Bachelorette then Paradise Bach I don't know that's the only thing that I'm thinking uh yeah and we don't even know maybe there maybe Joan will be the last season of The Golden Era but it put it this way if it does if it does the numbers or even close to the numbers or even outd draws gen season there's no way they're getting rid of it you know so yeah but and they've committed to bachel paradise and that means we will have four four epis four seasons of this franchise in the year 2025 i' love the idea that it's never too late for love I mean that's my whole platform I work with older people I Found Love later myself to me this is the message that resonates that you know you feel young again when you're falling in love it doesn't matter how old you are I really hope to be honest with you Steve that we steer away from what I didn't like in the golden Bachelor it's it's more deep in the comments where like the women are like did you wear sunscreen they're they're kind of backsliding negative comments about the women and aging and I'm like pro-aging and like let's just talk about the love story as opposed to like what someone really looks like because that to me just feels so uh you know unidimensional and I want something deeper than that yeah and we'll see I mean I'm looking forward to Jones season really really looking forward to seeing how this plays out and how it differs or is similar uh to Gary season so Dr and Mark Kelsey's dad's dad is on it who something that somebody that everybody wants to see yes you know I'm thinking maybe he becomes the next Golden Bachelor who knows right yeah anyway uh Dr Diane thank you so much for coming on always love chatting with you I appreciate it first time we get to do video uh we'll obviously do it again uh in the future maybe at the end of Jones season we have be back on yes i' love to because I I've got my um grandparent Barbies uh because I have my Barbie collection I got my uh older man and mature woman and I'm I'm ready to go cannot wait well thank you so much Dr Dian for coming on and obviously we'll be in touch take care okay thanks bye bye