Warchant Postgame Call-In Show breaking down FSU Football vs. N.C. State | Florida State Seminoles

[Music] there is no flu bug in chateau gene williams and there isn't one here in my house welcome everybody in uh to the warchant.com post game show it's a post-game call-in show he's gene williams the founder and administrator of warchant.com my name is tom lang and uh you saw today a first half that was ugly as hell a second half that gave you a little bit of hope and then that hope was taken away the final today nc state 28 florida state 14 as the noles dropped to i believe that's now three and six on the season three games to go gene uh this was one where at halftime if you had just had a conversation with all your brethren you know your group texts of knoll fans if that's what you guys do or you're at the game together you're thinking well this one's academic man the flu bug was going through the team we're a one-dimensional offense and that one dimension passing is not working next thing you know in the second half florida state looks good offensively for a few drives and you start to hope a little bit by the end of the day a couple of key plays not made maybe a decision or two that was um questionable or at least debatable and that's where i will give the floor right now gene williams given our pre-game or pre-show talks in the green room this should be interesting gene go ahead well yeah first of all i want to look i mean yeah i was about to go out and just go for a nice long comfortable walk in the afternoon after that first half it's a beautiful day in tallahassee you know we saw it was just horrific and you know i wasn't shocked i just knew this was a bad matchup without jordan travis and we you know we kind of figured that's how it's going to play i know it's going to be quite that bad but so i you know i give some props to him for this team again it's it's same thing we've seen this great this team fights it doesn't give up so i mean props to them for that and i thought they you know you think about what did they end up having four whatever they had 14 drives nc state i mean how many drives do they have time for them to hold them to 28 points i don't think it was a bad defensive effort yo there were some chunk plays where they had horrible tackling and a few plays here and there but on the whole they played well enough to win and for the defense to have two drives and score twice i mean ballsy call there the onside kick at halftime and you said there's there's some debatable cause there's no debate tom and this has been my one of my bugaboos with mike norvell and look and i don't get look i'm not saying fire and mike norvell i do think he's done some really good things i think he's got the program very slowly painfully headed in the right direction but man it's just it's a snail's pace the way they're progressing here yep but okay i guess i'll get into it man i feel like an epic rant coming on here i am so freaking pissed at that freaking fourth down call look the momentum had changed in the second half it's a seven point game you're in the fourth quarter you got a couple first downs you're on your 43 yard line it's a fourth and four at this point you're punting you're getting them inside the 20 somewhere most likely you're gonna flip the field you've gotten three straight stops your defense made them pumped threes at times your defense had kind of had found something you're getting pressure on leary you're stuffing the run game the momentum had definitely shifted but here we go here we go again with this nonsense so we're going to go for it on fourth down and our own side and the thing i know mike norvell's press conference you can watch that later he's probably coming up soon we'll have it on warchant tv you can watch it and i guarantee he's gonna someone ask him he's gonna say it's analytics you know what that is that's tom you know why because analytics all they do is tell you what's happened i don't know if he's looking at all of college football games in the past and that situation your odds of winning but that's the pass that has nothing to do with this game it doesn't take into account your offensive line that you've got your backup quarterback how this defense is done before the momentum of the game all the other things going i'll give you an analytics that should tell you what you should do in that situation at the time florida state was two of 14 on third down in this game yeah i'm not a math wiz but that tells me well that's probably it's probably if you average it out it's probably third they probably were four to five yards average to convert those so that means there's an 80 chance you're not picking that up means there's an 80 chance plus you're giving them the ball on your side of the field in a seven point game in the fourth quarter so which means it's like a 90 chance you're freaking losing the game on that call it is insane to me that you're doing that crap even if you pick it up look if you pick it up so what you're at midfield you still might end up punting it's not like if you pick up that first down all the momentum shifts and you're scoring a touchdown it's idiotic he needs to stop doing this crap it's costing it's cost a couple games him doing this nonsense read the room the room was to punt the freaking ball your defense is playing well let them do what they've done and then win the field position back though it sucked all the momentum out of the room and of course they go down three plays later score a touchdown game over yeah like on on one hand gene i love the fact that mike always plays to win and always and that includes the onside kick and the aggressiveness and there were two other fourth down conversions that florida state got on the other hand where i agree with you if it's fourth and one fourth and two in that situation maybe maybe like i could if you're running well but you could do that exactly exactly fourth and fourth we know what's coming you know exactly what's coming of your nc state it has to be a pass there's no tricks that we can call there's no wrinkles that makes it a really tough situation what what hurts me a little bit more gene about what happened is is the next third down it's third and seven you do get yourself in a favorable position then it's a screen out to the flat you're one-on-one jerry on jones can you make the play and he couldn't make the play then akeem dent tries to come up he gets completely washed out by the offensive lineman next thing you know it's a touchdown up you know you would argue in that situation if you punt it the exact same call occurs um you know what what is that the 20 or the 25-yard line maybe they get to midfield and it's not a touchdown instead it is and that felt like the back breaking moment in the game um i knew it was over the minute they didn't convert that fourth down because we've seen this time when they don't convert that fourth down tom that other team scores every time that's the analytics you need to look at not what's happened in a thousand games that we go all in 52 of the time your odds are increased to win if you go for it on fourth and fourth not in this game not this team not with that offense no the backup quarterback not when you're to a freaking 14 on third downs and you can't run the ball there's no freaking way that's gonna work yeah given how much time was left in the game like i you're more fired up than i am about it but when you consider all the factors like you're correct let's say you pick it up so you're going to trust that offense to march down the field another 55 yards yeah 50 55 yards in order to get the job done i don't know the way the defense was playing outside of the one drive the killer drive to me in this game was in the second half you score on the onside kick you get down the field you make the play it's an absolute prayer that mackenzie throws up that uh replay that they showed on acc network from behind the end zone where he when he lets the ball go there's nobody in the picture it's just it's a it's a shot of an end zone it's an artful picture of an end zone and then here comes keyshawn held out of nowhere all those low percentage things get stacked together the house of cards is built it's 14 7. and then that you give up that i mean my god akeem dent like corey said it right he tweeted it he'll never want to watch that piece of film on a particular play where they score the touchdown like what kind of there is no effort there that's bad you can't have that happen that was lazy horrible it was on the live and then they went to the all 22. kudos to the acc network we're going to the all 22 a bunch today i always rag on them but i did appreciate that they may have had their play-by-play camera missed a couple of plays completely so we couldn't see what the hell was going on but at least they start to use replays so i appreciate them for that what a novel concept replays tom yeah exactly they're our thing i i think they invented those back in the days of howard cosell maybe earlier i don't know uh but the thing to me gene is you know when i was considering what was happening at halftime and we had talked about it on the pregame show that rhys davis had led the cat out the bag a little bit on college game day that mackenzie milton was likely going to play there were whispers around town all week about who was participating and who wasn't we all had an inkling that 13 might not go but it sounded like this morning on college game day that it did come to pass that the decision had already been made so we're about to kick off mackenzie's going to be your quarterback and then you see that dylan gibbons isn't playing and then you see that baby on johnson probably isn't available right and so now your two guards are your backups because to me dlt is not a hundred percent i think if you're operating at 100 efficiency right now you've got dylan gibbons at left guard you've got davion johnson at right guard dlt if he dlt is 100 he plays yeah he's not so now you've got two problems number one you don't have to account for jordan travis in the wrong game number two you've got your two backup guards in how the hell are you going to run the football you've got real problems and at 14 to nothing at half it felt like well this was an easy game to predict but then the next thing you know florida state fights back and they get it to within a score two times and you're starting to have delusions of grandeur and it just didn't happen for us but i i well the one thing i want to say just on the optimistic side of the coin they got gene they fight they continually fight and i like this group for that reason you could we could be mad about mike for a certain situational call but damn it if they don't just keep playing hard and when you're when you would lack this much talent and you didn't get as much practice time this week with the flu to battle and put yourself in a position to win this ball game i i know moral victories you can rip me for if you want for that but this group had a hell of a week that's true yeah you make a great point you do make i mean that's the thing gets lost in this and i'm ranting about and i think it's a horrible comedy to go through that again but you're right i mean that gets lost in the shuffle a little bit well thank you so much kevin yeah that's awesome appreciate you um oh yeah bad situationally ended up two of 16 on third downs that's not good situation but i think tom mentioned why when you're both your starting guards are out you've got you could say it's a second or a third string i i heard a whisper and this is one of the reasons why you saw i changed my pick to nc state and this is why i didn't think anything jordan was going to play and all the problems on the offensive line with illnesses but that's the reason why you're talking about your inability to run and convert those thirds down it's not a coincidence not like florida state suddenly reverted and situationally they're bad it's because they didn't have the tools that made them be able to convert that they were gone right and i do think that you know look i had heard headshot and who knows they might have just been i heard if chubba wouldn't have transferred he would have started this game would that have changed anything i don't know but it would have given you a more mobile quarterback it might have opened some things up but when you factor in that what what happened on the interior the offensive line as well man that's a tall this wasn't a bat this is it's not a great nc state team but it's a pretty good team right and look we'll never know i think if florida state's healthy if jordan's there those guards are playing i think they win this game i really do i but they just did not have enough weapons in the toolbox to pull this off despite the call maybe maybe they make that they don't make that dumb ass call they find a way to pull out a win but we'll never know so yeah to me again you know you're at kickoff and and these are the facts that are presented to you a lot of guys miss a lot of time this week and so they might not be in 100 physical condition the guys that can play your quarterback is it back up your two guards and backups okay i'm thinking you're just going to get straight up blown out like so that's where that's where you have to look at the context of things at halftime this was academic it was going on script later in the game where it gets a little bit more complex is you've got a chance to win how in the hell are you in this football game like view it from the other sideline if you're an nc state fan you're going there goes dave dorn again finding a way to be in a game that we should be blowing florida state out how is this a one score game and why do we look timid why do they look like the team that has more emotion and passion the way do those suckers couldn't even practice this week like what is this what what's happening to us are we gonna lose on the road again and that was another question that we were talking about all week is why is nc state so much worse on the road you put yourself in a position where if you make a couple more plays then maybe you do win this football game but i don't think it's homer-ish to say nc state is more talented than florida state nc state had a continuous week of practice florida state did not and florida state had two backup offensive linemen in the game and a quarterback that renders your offense completely useless on the ground game which is what we define ourselves as and yet here you are with a chance to win the football game aren't people tired of hearing this though it's like every week it's something you know and i get it we feel like florida state is snake bit because it of course you get a little momentum and things are starting to turn around of course your flu bug ravages the campus and your guys can't practice and your starting quarterback is out for a game like this when you don't have in your second string quarterback what you say second or not just out of the blue transfers out right it's just but people don't want to hear it they see they see the l like here's we've already got six losses tom and there's no maybe eek out one more at this point i don't know but again we don't know maybe they're healthy who knows how they're going to look next week against miami if they've got a totally healthy offense maybe they maybe they pull that win off nothing will shock me well the thing exactly right i would agree it's it's up and down you know get miami obviously i didn't see how the game finished but early on you're like oh look at that georgia tech's ahead i don't know what the final that game was but my answer to those people who would say it's always something of course it is we've rebooted this thing a couple of times in the last three four seasons like if if this is too much for you we'll see you in two or three years go away like that's my problem here is what do you want them to do this is something we talked about on the camera show for the last two or three years it feels like if you're a florida state fan you're in a straitjacket that's the effect that it is right now you can't go anywhere that jacket's not coming off it's gonna take some time i i understand that certain other programs around the country it looks like they may be bouncing back sooner maybe bouncing back quicker with impact players well we've got impact players on the way as long as this recruiting class holds together this roster has been completely gutted over the last few years it's patchwork and they patchwork themselves into being in a position to win this football game in the second half the fourth and fourth hurts though gene there's no doubt about that and we thank you everybody who supported the program of course kevin uh gabriel you're always up there man we really appreciate your support drew i see the 2814. i see you're in there yeah f the flu is right or ph the flu yeah uh this is uh well from what i heard it was either a 3 30 or 7 30 kick next week for um fsu miami we'll see what the six day option comes you drop those tidbits on the tribal council thank you well and people are mad about it i'm like listen if it if we knew what the kickoff was it wouldn't be a six day option they just announced what the kickoff was well that's the thing i've been dealing with this for years tom on the message boards they think this is predetermined like somebody knows that they're hiding it in bristol somewhere right and it's under lock and key oh you know when the kickoff is you just don't want to tell us there's a reason why they're delaying it because they're not sure when kickoff's going to be it depends on what happens in the games well and and sometimes it's not even the acc that's the reason for game times to pivot sometimes the whole college football world goes freaking crazy and you never thought that a certain matchup would be something you'd want to put on prime time and then the domino effect falls but what they try to do is help the tv crews with uh with plans of here are your two potential options go book your flights and get those things out of the way anyway that's too much about next week right now we also appreciate kevin kevin again my man thank you kevin wow freshmen are stepping up all over the country that's right now what i would tell you is florida state did dip into the transfer portal and had a couple of key players come in here and make some immediate impacts it's not enough it's an overhaul that's necessary here here thomas had the game of his life today gene it wasn't here it wasn't a couple of sacks that were the highlight it might have been the craft call the cramp which uh how awesome man the acc officials who couldn't see that the ball clearly hit the freaking turf with uh amica and messi on jarvis brownlee it it certainly did and kier we appreciate you man plus you say was gonna get that off you could tell they were smart they got up i think they would have got that snap off if he doesn't do that and they would not review that play yeah i mean they were and that's fantastic and i saw someone on our boards go isn't this the same crap we always complain about it's different to me when a team is you're stopping a team that's got momentum they're going hurry up offense you're impeding the game the acc make an incompetent call that was horrible and they were too stupid to blow the whistle to review it right well he's just he's righting a wrong it's totally different situation in my mind yeah so we'll get to the phone calls in just a moment this is the warchant.com post game show and you see the phone number right there 850 805 5911. this is uh you know in the grand scheme of things there have been some post game shows earlier this year gene for good and bad reasons that we went deep into the night this one is uh it's a little bit more simple than that the uh you know i would have given fsu maybe a 10 15 chance to win the football game at kickoff given what we knew about the absences in the roster and then they they give you just a little bit of hope and the moment that you start to feel some hope that they could pull this one out they pull it away and here we are so 2814 is the final any other things gene that you want to break down or talk about before we go to those phone lines or or do we want to uh not much i know i'm looking at some of the our chat fee thank you our chat participants on facebook youtube and twitter and it's kind of cool we get to see i love the interaction with all the fans people complaining look floristic got called for two penalties and yeah there was a horrible pass interference that didn't get called before they end up scoring anyway on that drive a couple of them it for i will take any acc game ever or florida state gets flagged twice and there were a couple that went on nc state i was like okay all right well sure you can go ahead and call that so this is one of the few games i'm leading the charge with the officiating but this isn't one of them uh that was not florida state was outmatched again tom can say it a million times i know people don't like to hear it i don't like to hear it it was simply look you had your quarterback was out the interior line is out it ruined everything you do offensively i think defensively they played well enough to win the game i know 28 points doesn't look great and has horrible tackling plays there on a couple plays but really it comes down to that you hate it it sounds like an excuse and i'm not making excuses coaches people say just admit i i ranted in the beginning i thought one of those horrific calls in my mind is that fourth down call because i think you had a legitimate shot to win the game buff for that but at the end of the day given florida state's limitations and personnel nc state was the better team and the result it was about a 14 point game that's probably what it should have been yeah i think that you know the fourth down call if you're at full strength maybe maybe i i just the fourth and fourth element of it that is alex not here for my rant earlier on alex go back and rewind i ranted i started the segment off by going off i was not happy let's just say the least about the fourth down call you know i think that's a debate that might rear its head if we get to where we want to go in two or three years where you're competing for the atlantic and the playoff berth if the playoff obviously expands to 8 or 12 teams like at that point with the roster that's more loaded is mike norvell still making these decisions or is he doing it now with a depleted roster because there's a sense of desperation that this might be our best chance to get to a certain place that the circumstances of that call that i don't like are you were you were backed up inside your own one yard line so you've gotten out and you're in a situation where you can flip field position at that point you don't have two guards you trust on the field at that moment uh your your running game is not going to get you that first down on fourth and fourth you had just missed an open throw and the defense even though it gave up a critical score at 14 to seven in this game was i mean the defensive line the last three drives they dominated three drives in a row they completely had nc state spooked at that point they were out of it at that point so yeah i don't regurgitate go back and rewind my rant i'm not gonna do it again i thought it was a horrible call it didn't i think momentum was in florida state's favor you would have flipped the field which was a problem this game you were you were losing field position most of the time their punter was pinning florida state back all day long and we were not doing that good of a job on it but that was a situation where you had momentum on your side you know you would have liked to have gone on and scored but i think the fact that you picked the first few downs you could have pinned them i still think basically momentum would be on your side you they blown it looked like they were going to blow florida state out suddenly it's a one score game you put them down the crowd's in it your fourth quarter that's reading the room that say look we got a chance maybe the defense makes a play down there maybe you can force a turnover down there maybe you get them they go three and out down there and they punt and they're freaking out they're like oh crap we can see we can it's it's going the other way but you didn't give your defense a chance you pinned them that you made them you put their backs against the wall yeah when he made that decision gene against notre dame earlier in the season things seemed to be falling apart so he was trying different yeah correct he was trying to put his finger into the leak and say well listen this is out of hand my defense is exhausted i've got to go for it here there was no such desperation this particular moment and i think the strongest point of all you know obviously in your rant there's like 12 of them that i like the best one is okay so what you get the first down what about this offense suggests to you that you're going to be able to march the other 50 yards to actually pay this off with a touchdown your defense probably has a better chance of putting you in a short field than your offense does in that moment that's where the context of it it's a toughy i think the bot and the analytics would say yeah you might want to go for it but the context you're right read the room and here's the other thing i'll say too i'm not against going for a fourth down euro i mean look if they had a solid offensive line they've been running the ball well it was a fourth and one maybe one and a half two yeah it's a different thing that's the thing every situation that's what i don't like about analytics when people say oh analytics because every situation is unique yeah and given like you pointed out given what was going on with the offensive line and the play and you're one dimensional in that situation it was a horrible call you got a good offensive line you're running the ball well in the fourth and one i don't have a problem with it because then analytics say yeah you're running the ball while you're getting four or five yards of clip you can probably get one yard if your offensive line is getting pushed consistently in the game that was not happening there was no chance in the world they're running the football no worse than that yeah there was no chance fourth and one at least there's some like they have to at least respect it you can't fourth and four there's no chance the world they're gonna run the football no not with that person all grouping out there and and that's the thing too gene is even on the fourth and one from or the fourth in inches from the goal to go situation corbin has to make an exceptional play just he gets in the end zone but even to get to the line to gain you know why again do they have mackenzie milton trying to do a qb sneak how many times i need to have him try to do that and it never works i mean that's the thing that drives me nuts about mike norville keeps repeating these things over and over and over again yeah or dillingham whoever's making that call yeah the number one missed assignment to me on that play is corbin the reggie bush push is legal what are we doing man what i mean he's just standing there and then at the end he's like oh should i have to yeah yeah get up there go yaki i'm going to get up for it on the next play though we'll give him that oh yes yaki gaddafi the 954 man that's i mean we really appreciate your support yeah exactly with van dyke coming in we'll see we'll see that defense can be had though if georgia tech can put up the numbers they did against miami yep do you get a healthy line you can run on this team and this is one where you're gonna need to score in the 30s to win that game but i think a healthy offense you're capable of doing that against miami we want to hear good things about dylan gibbons baby on johnson and jordan travis in no particular order this upcoming week to help for the chances to beat miami next saturday we go to the phone lines it's gator it's my man gatorkirk virginia beach all right gator it's a toughy today go ahead your thoughts i shouldn't have went for it on the fourth down but you know that's the way things work so we just got to put it behind us by the way i am so tired of hearing about willie taggart and how good he was here people just don't understand what brain wrecking was but anyway my my question is where are we going to go from here to regroup for the u because the big win over them would yeah make a huge difference yeah you've nailed it i mean i had to have a conversation with my buddy today i go you know what happens this game you'd love to win it would have been a huge win for florida state but especially when we knew jordan travis wasn't starting i cut we didn't we just nobody really felt they're gonna win this game but at the end of the day you're able to beat miami i think regardless of what happens the final two games after that i think you chalked this up as you're pretty happy relatively happy shits i don't know if you're happy but you're relatively happy you know you could would have beat a rival you would have stopped their little mini run that they've had here lately i think it gives you some momentum going into recruiting so i think that would be huge and what he said what do they have to do tom mentioned earlier you got to get healthy you've got to get those key factors back on offense out there and play and call a good game don't make mistakes and you know find a way to limit van dyke a little bit right yeah and you just got to be who you are as this team i know that sounds funny but this team doesn't give up it's got heart that's the thing i like about them you know listen they have no business being in that football game today and the players found a way to make it interesting and there were certain things that you know that were influenced uh the onside kick was a great call that helped influence the situation um great job i groadhouse i hope he's healthy i saw he came out of the game and fitzgerald uh made the next kickoff so hopefully parker's all right but that was a big play in the game they found a way to make it interesting even though they're completely outgunned that that's the positive of this thing and the positive is they've had multiple chances this year gene to pack it in and show that they are the same toxic culture that was the end of jimbo's tenure and that was the willy tagger tenure pretty much the entire time who's saying willy taggart was a good coach someone's actually saying that i i missed that maybe somebody out in the street in the 757 was like willie was good and and i'm not sure but we go to a pillar out in cincinnati he was a game day this morning you're watching game day it's eric angel what's going on eric welcome to the program and your thoughts on this particular game tonight hey tom and james what's going on man hey eric how you doing buddy yeah i'm doing great gene thanks for asking uh man i'll tell you what man coach norvell he's like you said gene he's got to stop gambling on our own side of the ball on these fourth downs i mean because you know next year you know we still have this recruiting class intact i mean yeah that'd probably be a plus but man he's just killing us and i tell you what man these acc breaths they suck mean i saw a guy on a punk return we're getting ready to receive the ball he left before the ball was even snapped so that's a legal man downfield i'm like you got to be kidding me and my question is where do we go from here god because honestly i saw that miami game a little bit against further tech i don't think we can beat the you i mean i hope we can because coach novel he's got to regroup these guys fast and the furious let me ask you how many points did uh georgia tech who's got one of the worst offenses in the acc how many did they score in miami today i didn't see the final score but i knew miami won the game 30 is the answer i gave up 30 points to a horrible georgia tech offense i'm telling you oh yeah miami's offense is clicking but i am telling you that defense can be had with a healthy jordan travis a healthy offensive line florist they can run it down their throats i'm telling you man they they oh yeah i totally agree with you guys 100 you know you know me i'm all for safe man i don't give up on him i know today eric i know today was ugly i know it was ugly today but you can't judge this team by what happened this wasn't this wasn't florida state that they didn't have their team out there i know we don't we hate you hate the loss you hate the way things turned out there in the game but man florida state did not come well it it's short-handed that's what it is at the end of the day they were not going to win this game as soon as jordan travis and gibbons was out they weren't going to win this game well and the hard part too and eric we appreciate the call and uh you know i think it's noteworthy that you don't feel that great about the miami game because you're one of the biggest optimists we have our fan base so hopefully tomorrow you feel a little bit better about things but uh i can understand why the thing that gene i was gonna talk about again when this was 14 to nothing at halftime i was thinking how can you even rag on any of these kids because you don't know what percent any of them are operating at now most of them could be fine but it's just you can't pinpoint for me especially on on the offensive line like are guys just gutting through you know uh flu like symptoms where they're getting ivs at halftime and they're getting ivs in the pregame like and they won't be they weren't able to practice beyond whatever film work that could be sent to their ipads a good chunk of these players so it would it would have been hard to criticize the guys for not being at full strength personnel wise but then also the guys that were on the field we don't know we don't know what kind of motor they had how much did they practice how weak were they going into the whole thing i mean that's right it sounds like we're making excuse me when the flu ravages your team i mean it is what it is here that's you almost have to watch this game and like you know this william green's here like i'm not saying florista is a good offensive line but they won they were what top 20 rushing the football this season tom right exactly right when they have jordan travis when you have a healthy offensive line look they're not they're good enough to run effectively against a bad defense miami's got a bad defense if they've got everything everybody healthy they can run for a lot of yards against a team like mine doesn't mean they're going to win but it means they can put up some points and that gives you a chance to win the game that's what i'm saying so it's it's different this game they didn't have a good offensive line obviously because they were short-handed and you had a quarterback that made them one-dimensional which made it even worse yeah to me you know i get the angry mob is always going to be after a loss but like is this the one that really you're going to say fire the staff or i mean you know uh maybe maybe alcohol is not the thing you need maybe something else that'll make you look oh yes it is tom yeah i know there's something out there to make a little more cheerful we go to ocala we talked to gene gene is always a caller on this particular program welcome back gene and give us your thoughts on tonight's game what's going on fellas how y'all doing tonight happy to be talking to you gene doing well well gene i i just want to say that uh i'm glad you got all the explicatives out i wouldn't have to get on the phone and do it they're not out yet i got a few still away to go i'm still mad asked you guys just a couple of weeks ago does it seem like he shrinks in these moments making these decisions when it's just obvious flip the field coach fuller it's just obvious hey i've seen this before notre dame a screenplay might be coming you're going to send everybody down the field are you going to play some kind of shell to make every just it's just these decisions down the stretch seem like it hurts us more than it helps us and but i can't keep hurting my team with these decisions that i'm making after a while it seems like it'd be taken to the early 2000s when jeffrey baldwin was calling plays and the defense would give him their all and then three and out three without three and out and it just you're playing your hearts out why would you do your defense that way and it just seems like just questionable play calling appreciate the call please appreciate you taking my call you guys have a good night thank you too gene have a good night yeah i mean jean makes a good point i mean there's there's a couple games you can put right on the coaches i mean he mentioned you know when they blitzed against notre dame on that play and they got burned you can mention the jacksonville state again we've been through it a million times but the defensive call on that that final play of the game you know that that's that's a l right there on adam fuller 100 look and someone even said look if they you know someone said here we go i'll put this up look at the game look i'm pissed about the fourth down call because they had despite what i thought was going to go into the game they put themselves in a position where they had a fighting chance to potentially win the game and when they didn't convert that fourth down for all intensive purposes to me it ended it that was it because every time they don't convert a fourth down their own and the other team scores every single time so to me the game was effective when you didn't pick it up in the odds like i said based on third down percentages based on what was going on the one-dimensional nature there was a 15 to 20 percent chance they're going to convert that so that means there's an 80 plus percent chance the game's over i'm not going to that's bad odds i don't like them doing that were they going to win i don't know but if they would have flipped the field they got a fighting chance even though that look florida states lost to teams when they were the better team nc state was the better team that doesn't mean florida state had no chance to win it looked like it at halftime but they put themselves in position midway in the fourth quarter they had a fight chance to win this thing and that call in my mind ended all chances they had as soon as they didn't convert that in my opinion it was over yeah like i didn't necessarily think gene that um that the game was over in that moment but it just got a whole lot harder it got a whole lot harder uh to win when does that not burn the name one time in normal's tenure when he's gone for it fourth in his own end when it didn't burn his ass yeah i mean i every time how many how many times does he have to do this where it loses the game well it puts and puts them in position where the game is effectively over given that he's got like a handful of wins i don't have many very many jobs i know but i mean when he's it just has not worked in his favor again you're right read the room in that situation we're going to go over it again but i i thought it was a horrible call that i don't think too many people were going to demate me they don't think that was a good call given given all the circumstances it was not a good call correct gina this is where we agree here is like in theory the numbers might say something but but you're looking at the situation all the evidence you have before you and you're right 2 of 16 is what we finished on third down i think we were 14 in that moment like what what is it that you think that you can grab four yards you know in that moment no with nc state knowing exactly what's coming and what's the benefit that's the other questions what's the benefit of doing that in that moment angel hey man we're not calling out your null card not at all we're true you're always always always behind the nulls and we know that and that's why we love you eric you're a pillar buddy we're just saying man do not give up on this team i'm telling you they're going to be a better team when they get jordan back they get gibbons back they're at full strength next week so i'm just saying don't give up on them and i know you're not going to i know you're positive you love the knolls we're not calling you out at all it was fun to talk to shane last night too shannon and michelle were down from cincinnati the pillars man they come here in full force and we're always happy to walk to tallahassee so we can now go out to colorado to talk to kyle kyle you want to talk about some body language okay go right ahead welcome to the post game show first things first gentlemen i love you guys you always bring me back to center and i appreciate it so i i got to get some insight from you to help understand this i feel like this game is a variant jones blown coverage and a jerry and jones bad angle missed tackle on a screen away from going to overtime where we probably still lose but that's okay my question is this in the fourth quarter they show jamie robinson losing his mind with frustration on the sideline and adam fuller calmed him down right beside him was jerry and jones acting like nothing ever happened uh how does a player who makes those mistakes kind of not really address it when his teammate is kind of losing his mind frustration next to him is that indicative of like a player or is it something like um certain players care other players don't like kind of help me understand what's going on all right uh well so it's a question basically kyle is not very happy with number seven today oh and number seven had a rough game he did on that first touchdown i think that's good scheme by nc state we're playing four high and you've got a route that takes the safety jamie robinson down and and you know there might be a it might be on seven that the communication was not where it should be i have a hard time you know with some blown coverages sometimes it's obvious like the akeem dent play uh where they score to go up 21. i mean there's no excuse for that what was that that's not scheme but questioning in that moment what the communication should have been between safety and corner you know just because there's an off chance that maybe jerry on did the right thing on you know in on screenplay that puts nc state up on third and seven they score to get it up to 28 points it's one-on-one you just got to make a play and he didn't you know and and that's rough as for body language and stuff on the sidelines i don't know how much it could accomplish in the moment if jareon shows more spirit and and you know uh he seems as sorry uh as as we want him to feel in that moment that's always tough to me because yeah you know with gene you covered it longer than i have everybody's wired a little bit differently i'm not trying to excuse anything away if people are showing body language they don't give a damn well then that's a problem but you know but also there's a composure thing you're not going to lose it because you made a bad play i i don't know i'm not the sidelines i don't know everything that happened there like you said everybody's different so i'm not going to draw too much from that you know players some players had rough games i mean it is what it is and some are more fun and i think jamie i love i love the emotion jamie robinson shows out there i mean he's out there making tackles he's fired up i love that i love that he's carried how about you know brownlee going nuts on that play when he the incompletion did happen thank goodness our guy keir went down and made sure they looked at that but i mean i love the emotion out of that too so we like that but that's like you said some guys just aren't emotional doesn't mean they don't care right they might just be different i do love when guys are passionate like here's mom is like a jamie robinson though because i mean you know that's how we feel that's how we feel as fans and here's a little bit of passion for you thanks for the two bucks hurricane it is miami hate week now and you can tell us that we're asked but i mean name me your acc championship since you joined the all canes conference yeah how about he got there hurricane yeah go ahead when you can do that uh we'll accept your money but we'll take your tip thank you yeah thanks for the thanks for the two bucks we appreciate you uh that's about how much you've brought to the acc in terms of monetary value since you joined the conference 20 years ago billion crawfordville is next up on the warchant.com postgame show billy welcome to the program how you doing all things considered tonight man man i'm doing great man i'll be doing better if we won the game yeah hey it is here's my thing though are we teaching tackling because the things like every game we have tackling issues there were two touchdowns tonight there shouldn't have been touchdowns but because we can't tackle their touchdowns you know what i'm saying and i mean that's fundamentals it's just fundamentals and it goes back to the estate game you attacker yeah there's no testing and then the play caller all this fourth down going forward on fourth down on our 40 yard line stuff i mean at a at a point you got to realize okay we're not back there we're really not that good especially on offense so why do you do that why do you put your defense in that position number one don't get me going again i'm finally calming down and you're getting me fired up again number two it's common sense and when you have an aggressive defense like nc state why do you not throw screen passes if they're going to blow by you anyway run a screen pass just run a screen pass i don't know how many players five yards five yards is five yards you can nickel and dime them all the way down the field well and i appreciate it hello thank you billy i don't i'll put that on utah i didn't see a ton of blitzes from them did you see a lot of blitzes yeah i mean like i don't know that we could matriculate the ball down the field on umass uh all that much either like you know that was maybe the one game this year where we could five yards at a time that's not this offense i mean you know uh nc state sniffed out a lot of things that we did in fact a couple of screenplays and shuffle plays that we dialed up we had to bail out of because they had it covered so i agree with you on on some other things though uh billy the the fourth down of course you know if you're reading the room as gene says i i get the analytics play and i will typically be a forward-thinking analytics guy who's like yeah i could see what you're doing in that situation i think the ravens in the nfl are an exceptional franchise at knowing when to push that button you got lamar jackson at quarterback it's a little different but also where on the field they go like they they're they're forward thinking so therefore you know you're you're abiding by different rules but when you've got mackenzie milton at quarterback and this version of him not three years ago mackenzie milton you got these receivers you don't have your two starting guards in my mind again baby on i think is a better option to guard so you can't run the football it's a pass obvious play i mean what would you say you do here like and what's the benefit that's what you do there it's not even a decision there's there is no decision bad tackling has reared its head but i can't plan on the defense i can't pin this game there was there was some bad tackling i mean but he makes a good point there were a couple really horrific tackles that cost you big time but on the whole we got to look in the context of the whole thing the defense did play well enough look i mean they had 13 14 drives in the game i mean and you had bad feet a lot of times you were bet your backup was against the wall because you were losing the field position battle it's not considering where this defense was not too long ago that's not bad that's not it's you played i think they played well enough to win the game if your offense was more competent i think you win the game there yep yeah well and what was interesting too this is why it's so complex to me genie you know just when i was like all right you're limited you know they pull a rabbit out of their heads half you know they're like all right screw it here we go again we can't run the effing ball so let's go four wide spread it out and see if we can make some magic happen and they did that like that first drive was was okay i think you you catch nc state and yeah they were they were swimming from the onsite kick yeah the other hey was the catch by keyshaw do you think he was throwing the ball away you think he was throwing the ball away okay i'm like was this joe montana and today i'm dwight clark in the super bowl that i'm like what was that he spun around twice through it and keyshawn runs across the whole end zone and catches on like where did that come from no i i think he's trying to nail that he doesn't have the arm strength to get out of the back of the end zone so it's like don't say that because they were going what a great play that was well any time oh man you blew my world i thought i thought about that like i don't want to tell myself he was i thought he was throwing like he probably was throwing the ball away but i don't want to think that now you're yeah oh i don't know about that well gene anytime anything good happens with mackenzie it's like everybody has to fall and lie prostrate and worship at the altar of like all right it's a great story like i get it but you know he's a limited player so that's why we were where we were today kevin we appreciate you again yeah and you know what i thought we did a better job obviously of catching the football today in the punt game and letting it go when we should have let it go but that kid put some english on the football a couple of times you're just like we did the right things it just ended up that the you know the punches were the opponent was better than our punter i mean it was pretty obvious they began well other than the on-site kick and obviously that was good call that was film study because you watch and they pointed that out nc state's front line was bailing on kicks and that's something my film study is important they saw that and they go okay let's practice that we can get away with this and it works so that is something that coaches did well on special teams but other than that once again everything else a special team is bad and i'll tell you hickman here i will tell you what right here tom i will shave the beard if they beat miami how about that okay not live on the post game show though right i don't think anybody wants to see that but uh i will okay i'll throw it out there right now so you don't like the beard i will shave it if we beat miami right now i'm calling it all right well we see that we know stick uh stick in tallahassee let's go to scoop in tallahassee scoop welcome to the warchant.com post game show go ahead hey what's up guys are you all allowed to drink while y'all watch the game uh before during and after and even more after this game okay great that's great hey i think you guys do a great job i'm i want to ask you this is it i understand you know we we beat down play i i before we snapped the ball i was thinking we should punt but we talked about that a lot but could you guys help me understand i think we were down by 14 and we declined a holding penalty when we had nc state on okay so that's one question and after that i think is i really think we need to reset the clock because uh just the game management is terrible and the same things happen over and over what about hugh freeze give me your thoughts on that oh man whoa he goes right there to hugh freeze well declining the pedal yeah that was dumb i mean the commentators even brought that up i mean i get it they're trying to i guess the thinking was we need to save some time so give him one less down but still man you're pinning him you're spending to me but here's the thing again next you don't go by just that you got to think the next level because what you're doing at that point you're putting even further back you're even getting more conservative because they're up against you got a two touchdown lead now you're inside your 10 yard line you're definitely running the ball up the middle there's no chance you're doing anything else and i think you can really stack the box at that point and boom boom boom get the ball back yeah that's another one that i'm man i'm in between on because you it's 7 yards or 40 seconds that that's what you're weighing there like so what what's more valuable you got a guaranteed punt though at that point because they're so far back they can't do anything out of out of fear correct and and given the fact that i think there were seven minutes and change left that in college football that's enough time yes that you've got enough time to accept that penalty it's like this isn't as bad to me as say the syracuse game week three or willy's first year where they're declining stuff on special teams you're like what this makes no sense like what are we doing personal thousands of special teams nope nope nope we're good i get what they're doing and i think in some circumstances they're the right calls but like i know it's the phrase i should just wear it on a t-shirt so i don't have to say it anymore but if you're reading the room and maybe you apply it at the wrong times um i could tell two minutes left three minutes left i i agree with you at that point you're in desperate you need every freaking second but yeah because they because they ran for a few yards and they were able to pat they were far enough out at that point they could pass the ball and they did and that made them dimensional we talked about one dimensional well they're two-dimensional this defense doesn't do so well you have a huge advantage they're back against their own and trust me dave dornan chucking the ball around inside his 10-yard line there's no freaking way when you get them to any team in that situation you have a gigantic advantage on them and they're gonna go three and out they're gonna punt yeah and scoop to answer the question on my part the reason i don't drink during the uh the games is because it's a little bit like air traffic control like making sure everything's going okay during this broadcast at the end plus with this group nah man like you know if you start it's hard to stop when you're watching some of the things you see it's got more responsibilities than i do so i get away with it i'm the boss i can go ahead and drink that's well you've earned that right and then something uh kim we appreciate you you know if jordan travis is healthy the answer to question to your question is no i don't think so if jordan's healthy he's gonna play it was there some thought tom that they might have pulled i mean did you think there was any chance in the second half that tate might have gone out there well gene after two drives i thought is it is it maybe time because the way this thing started i'm like i don't know that mckenzie's got anything in the tank but i'll tell you that when they cut to the sideline at one point in the late first half or early second half tate may have had his helmet on but you're reading the expression on his face anyone going in that game there was no way he was playing today it was mackenzie all the way uh we go up next to new york and we talked to brad in new york who wants to talk about a key uh transfer portal development this week go ahead brad hey tom hey gene thanks for having me um i know you guys have uh talked about this ad nauseam this week i was just wanted to get your insight on what you think chubby purdy would have potentially brought to the game um if you think it would have changed or or you know if you think he would have had an impact and also uh now that the game's over do you guys have any insight as to what happened there uh anything else you can share on that all right gene you want to take that first well thank you brad for calling in um i mean i was told by a source i trust that if chubble was here he would have started so i mean take that for what it's worth i think what it does do is we don't know he might have just crapped his pants it might not have worked but i mean i will say i think he opens up the running game again because he has the mobility you're not gonna do you notice there was no zone reads read options you can't do that nobody's gonna respect mackenzie milton running and he did run a couple times and hats off to him man be able to do that but no defense is gonna respect that so i think it would have opened some things up for the running game had he been out there but again as some pointed out without your two top guards you know you maybe could have run a little bit better how much of a difference would they make we'll never know it would have been nice to see and i might whether he wanted to transfer or not it might have helped him to get some more reps out there it might have helped his teammates i mean i i don't have a lot of information to share on the reasoning i think a lot of people are kind of taken off guard i mean it was right after the clemson game i heard he just he flew home to arizona i don't know if he's back on campus or what he's doing but it was a little bit out of the blue i don't i've not heard a legitimate reason why any i don't understand why any player transfers mid-season i don't get it but i have not heard an explanation yeah leslie chubb was third on the depth chart but recall you know uh in the umass game mckenzie said you know it's all right i'll stand aside and let these young guys get some reps and if you're looking for continuity in a game plan and what we can do in the offense chubba fits it better so here's here's one of the reasons and this is partially to your question leslie here's one of the reasons before things got interesting in the second half i just i would have a really hard time pinning this one on kenny or any of the coaches because i don't know what they got to install this week like so if you're saying well why are we running the offense that jordan travis would run to start the game against nc state for the entirety of the first half well they might not have been able to practice together that much for all we know that's the hard part is how much can you really game plan for nc state when you're worrying every morning who's going to be available to you each day it's just it gets unfair at that point and maybe you expected to have one of your guards and he wasn't available you know i saw that cam mcdonald gutted it out today but jordan wilson got the start at tight end uh hopefully lawrence toefield comes back but they had they had actual injuries and then they had the flu bug and it's not just the florida state specific thing if you're not paying attention to what's going on here in tallahassee i don't mean uh i mean it's not a team specific thing the whole campus is yeah with the flu i mean they got uh emails being sent to staff members at florida state university saying don't send anybody to thaggard it's full our clinic is full like nobody come here so unless it's absolutely necessary so it's just it's a really hard week to pin it down and just come down hard on players and coaches for not executing at the level that we expect them to because i don't know what they got done monday through friday like what can you accomplish if you're not there to to work on anything that would be my take on it um but we've uh we've been down that road a few times already so we'll stick to the state of new york and uh one of our frequent callers to this particular program the warchant.com post game calling show hey josh welcome to the program as always hey what's going on guys um first i want to just say i think there should be like post game pillars because i can't make it to the children but anyway that's just a suggestion for the the captain himself but anyway like josh josh is an official post game pillar there we go that's just me uh politicking but anyway i'm actually happy you know why because i feel like we're gonna win the next three games i watch miami today and i am not afraid of that at all here we go that's what we're talking about let's go josh north carolina has a north carolina has a better offense nc state has a better offense wake has a better offense i i wasn't afraid of anything of what i thought today and the last couple of weeks florida please that damn is too weird for them to win anyway i don't i don't really respect him and then boston college we can go right up there and they're the worst of the three so i'm not afraid of the next three games i think we could win the next three games and i think everybody will be happy if we want it this game is a throwaway game you've seen wake bars today give up 50 points they gave 56 points up to army and we had mckenzie starting and we scored 14 against them so like that is the biggest difference so no one should be upset about today today is fine we're okay i was really happy with our defense we had we forced like three punts in the first quarter we punched it every time and and like we were still playing well we fought and that's why i'm just so bullish of our team going forward i think it's going to be great everybody just do the aaron rodgers i know it's not like relax we're going to be fine and we're going to win the next three games man golden goals thanks josh yeah don't get me here josh where like you make up stuff just the relaxed part we'll stick to that that part of it but uh yeah that's the hard thing to see right now gene because in the in the moments after a loss you're emotional about things if 14 to nothing and that trend held true for the next 30 minutes we'd be sitting here saying well this is again this is a clinical no pun intended with the flu bug that's going on in tallahassee but this is a clinical game there's an easy reason as to why florida state was not in position to win but then when they give you hope and they put a rally together and they get within a score now the emotions return and to me i think the overriding thing is what josh is saying i'm choosing in this particular week to say man they fought through all kinds of ridiculous adversity this week and they put themselves in a close position you could be mad about mike in fourth down you could be mad about certain situational things but if we're sitting here next week and miami absolutely torches florida state's defense be mad then but this this is a tough one to really put a lot of weight into wouldn't you agree yeah i mean that's the thing i appreciate josh's perspective i think we're trying to not being apologetic but man sometimes the circumstances dictate things i mean it's not just well florida state lost by 14 points since he said man there's a lot more to this right now joel davis thank you oh my goodness michael he's hey man you're the duffman we're gonna call you the duffman oh yeah because uh he believes in aj duffy who uh game changers are coming he says we got a couple if they can hang in there and they sign and they're here and that's the thing that you probably saw that with duffy now that he got he got banged up i think it was his finger yep that he's gonna now everything's set he should be enrolling early at florida state man to get that spring practice in get those extra reps in and get acclimated to college that's huge especially now that that chubb is not there man it's it's going to be a little bit of a race one fewer hurdle and yeah that's right there was about i don't know a two or three hour period where people are freaking out this week because it happened to be the same day that that shabba entered the transfer portal that the news came out that aj duffy was leaving img and then somebody said it's over on our message board he's gone like oh boy i'm sure like 95 people said it's over on the message boards in the last hour that's okay though they're they're there for venting so there you go that's what they're there for joel we are eternally great for your support thank you we promised to put it to good use i promise you there uh oh gene did you post it you see this one some guy i appreciate the 4.99 but man you're gonna have to tip a lot more than that me to shave my head i'm sorry dude hey you know what some guy figured out even more you'd have to pay to wear a miami jersey i don't think there's enough money i don't think you youtube will let you tip enough money there's probably some limit for me to wear a miami jersey i'd shave my head before doing that no freaking way that will ever happen i'll give you the you if you're the you i'll give you that but that's about as far as you're getting oh man some guy figure out what that number is we'd love to see yeah you can try you can keep throwing money you may hit it but you're way off we we go and that that gentleman who's clearing his throat right now is alex and he's in tallahassee he's the next caller on the warchand.com post game show alex go ahead with your thoughts and welcome to the program hey guys how are y'all doing doing well good um i'm actually not that surprised about the turnout today i mean with the flu lack of practice no travis no chubb up i'm not shocked at all um and i don't want to get gene fired up again that fourth down thank you but i'm gonna change gears a little bit um but this past week it seems that recruiting's been a big topic uh especially between kirby smart and dan mullen after their game last week um and i think texas a m had a big recruiting day today as well but um hypothetically i i'm gonna go off to what josh was saying i don't think we beat miami uh van dyke looks pretty darn good he had almost 400 yards today and three touchdowns i don't think we beat uf and just playing boston college and boston just does not uh make me feel any better about it um how are they going to sell our product to recruits now especially with some of these bonehead calls that norvell has been doing all season it just seems to be a hard sell um i want to get you all thoughts on that all right well thank you alex um well i mean these players that have committed most have been committed since florist it was a three win team last year and the product on the field was a lot worse than you're seeing now i mean they went out there totally short-handed and it was a seven point game and you're driving middle of the fourth quarter so i mean they've proved that the product on the field is much better i mean maybe they maybe they end up with three four five wins somewhere around there but i mean you can see the progress on the field these guys have not wavered i mean they lost a couple guys but i mean it's typical in the fall you're gonna have a couple d commitments it's nothing unusual but the core the duffy's the hunters those guys still seem to be very solid now i don't think you want to go out and get blown out by miami and bc and that would not be a good look and that might that could hurt your class but i think things stay kind of consistent the way they are i think they'll be fine in this class they're still going to have a really good class and a couple key players coming in it's going to be important obviously to get some transfers in too there's a couple key positions especially i think a wide receiver defensive end you're going to lose a couple really good players there you're going to need to fill those voids as well but you know i think that recruiting is getting over these guys have been firmed through a lot of through jacksonville state through last season being a three-win team and they've hung i don't know why all the sudden they would bail here with a month and a half before signing day i i don't see it am i am i missing something i mean people i get their concern about recruiting it's justifiable because it builds a foundation you need we saw today you need an upgrading talent you had a couple key injuries and it just basically gave fsu a very limited chance to win the game you need that depth you need the talent but i i don't see why the class is suddenly in three games left the class is going to get gutted for some reason no i yes i know it's not the scientific or insightful answer that you're hoping for alex but if they've made it this far and they stuck through this much i mean what's one more month uh to sign on the line that is dotted that's the thing to remember here too is you know given when the early signing period started and what florida state went through that year with the transition between willy and jimbo and then they got to do it again a couple years later uh and then mike has followed that up with you know that higher in that you know week of essentially just trying to find any name he could to come here to tallahassee that he liked with a covet season this is the first real early signing period we've had in ever in florida state history so you're a month away from getting those kids to commit a lot of them are going to be early enrollees and i know they're committed but to sign to truly commit to the program you don't want to get blown out between now and then they've sold them to keep together and to keep the core together this much for this long and they started 0-4 and the kids are still here i don't know that one fourth down call is going gonna be the moment where travis hunter says you know what the hell with it i'm putting my hands these coaches are making a couple calls i don't agree with so i'm gonna yeah that's not gonna be the difference at all it look gonna go on a different thing you mentioned again about not beating miami i don't know why everybody's look miami's offense is clicking van dyke is a lot better than we thought that their backup was i mean it's amazing what they're doing offensively but nobody's talking about their defense that's half the battle here let me go through the last two games in miami let's see virginia gave up 30 points north carolina 45 nc state 30 pittsburgh 34 georgia tech today 30. it's a really bad defense i don't understand why just because their offense is clicking like there's two sides of the coin the florida state's gonna score probably in the 30s if they're healthy in this game it's probably going to be a one position it's probably going to come down to the end i don't know why people are suddenly giving up on the miami game i'm shocked at this and it's the it's the emotion of the uh the first it's after a loss i guess i i just to me again i feel better about this game uh that it was close at all like the fact that we got it there i mean you had to really pull a rabbit out of you know where in order to even get it to that place given all the problems we had this week and the problems nc state didn't have they should be embarrassed it was that close at any point frankly with what goals they still have in front of them they really are worse on the road i think we learned that today uh lee in north meridian beach south carolina or is it north median beach go ahead lee welcome to the program you are on the warchant.com post game show hey how you doing nice to talk to y'all guys hey welcome lee we're absolutely yeah it's north myrtle beach south carolina beach north myrtle gotcha beautiful up there i've been a fan of florida state since 1992. the question i have for y'all guys i believe it was in the i want to say early fourth quarter when mckenzie got hit by the north north north carolina state defender in the face and knocked down and the ref was right there yeah shouldn't that be enough of him against something yeah i remember that i remember he looked at the official put his hands up like what's going on here i just got whacked now that's you know they they made some mistakes absolutely i think that should have been called a couple past interferences were very obvious it was it's the acc it's a given there's going to be a handful of bad calls every game but i'm not i'm not blaming this game i i can say the clemson game if we want to go back talk about that i think that may have cost you the game that last drive i can point to that nc state was a better team florida state made bad calls in the end based on the personnel so i'm that was you're right that's one of several bad calls in the game but i don't feel like that caused florida state the game lee since your first time of the program and you're still on the line just a question for you do you feel optimistic about miami next week or do you feel a lot worse about it after what you saw today what do you think i do believe we can beat miami because we're going to be healthy i really do yep there it is that's a good call thank you lee thanks for joining us thanks lee appreciate the call we hope you call again yeah if they're healthy that's it that's what this comes down to all those practice reports right here on warchant.com that you can find on the tribal council you should be looking for those to see um listen we can't speak directly given the policies of florida state about who is practicing and who isn't practicing but a little word to the wise if we're giving you updates about certain things that happen in practice look for the names like who's throwing the ball who's catching the ball that's just that's the alert way to keep up to date with our practice updates on the tribal council which you can do all week long right here at warchant.com we've got a couple of callers left in the queue for right now i think we're going to call this for terry no more new calls uh because we do have a guest from stadium side right now yeah we talked about recruiting the last caller we got a five star ready to sign with the war champ post game show we do indeed i see two callers in the queue and we can put them on hold and go to the five star you can't keep the five star waiting of course not i'm just telling those folks know right after ira we're coming to you no new callers we appreciate you guys and your patience we now go stadium side to mr shofel himself the managing editor of warchant.com ira welcome to the program man how are things going in the post game for you oh just great just great things are just going swimmingly here at doe campbell stadium where uh we see florida state lose again and follow three and six for the second straight season and i love i love the backdrop there go ahead tom i detect uh serious frustration in your voice what would be the source of that frustration yeah what's up ira you know it's a way it's a weird game it's a weird week we knew they were banged up from the clemson game plus we also knew that the flu bug was going around the team so on the one hand you know you say you know mike norvell made a point that he um i guess he got the team together this morning and really praised them for the way they got through the week because it was a challenging week i guess up to 25 different guys missed at least one practice so they went through it i mean it was definitely a tough week for them but at the end of the day you know 78 yards and a half of football and i know you didn't have your starting quarterback but that first half was just brutal i thought you know they showed some fight there in the second half got it within seven points kept it there for about a quarter um but you know just the way they played in the first half and then defensively some of the big plays on defense and i think that was the most disappointing thing you kind of expected the offense to struggle without jordan travis to some degree but the defense gave up so many big plays in crucial situations including the back breaker there on third and 10 at the end but i'm curious you mentioned that about the defense did the defense really play that i mean there's a couple obviously back breakers you pointed that out but i think nc state had something like 13 14 drives in the game um and there's a play here there but i mean on the whole did the defense play pretty solidly they played decent for sure um and they at times they played really well but some of those third downs i mean they're just brutal i think nc state converted like eight of 18 third downs and some of them you know hit a screen for 43 yards um you know just missed tackles uh that that that i think is the most frustrating part it's not like um you know just the tremendous plays by nc state there were you know several those long plays were just terrible tackling terrible angles and maybe part of that you know it's easy to to attribute a lot of the um lack of execution on offense to having so many guys out during the week and then out of the lineup i mean i think there was he said at least one practice this week where they had four of their starting offensive linemen not able to practice um so you understand that continuity i guess you'd say defensively it can happen as well because you know if you're missing tackling drills if you're missing practice time that could affect your tackling but we just i just i didn't think we've seen them play like that defensively in a long time where they've just given given up cheap touchdowns and that's really how nc state scored i think at least maybe three of them yeah it seemed like yeah they'd either stop it it seemed like they either stuffed them right or there was a breakdown you know they stuff them stuff and stuff and then there's a missed tackle they go 60 yards for a touchdown yeah it's pretty frustrating now you can probably guess our i started this segment out ranting about something the fourth down oh baby yes i'm assuming he pulled out the analytics card again when he was asked about mike norvell in the post game right no not really because he did pass up he had some fourth and ones earlier in the game that he passed up on i think what he said was um he just felt like they were down to only a few possessions left in the game there's seven or eight minutes left they're in the fourth quarter uh felt like the offense had come you know they started that drive back at the one yard line had pushed it out 40 yards um you know felt like that they might be able to find something uh they had some routes that they liked some some rubber outs on those on that play that they thought they'd be able to get you know at least a five yard pass and it was there i mean it was kind of there i think pokey wilson could have made a tough catch there and maybe uh maybe gotten the first down there but um yeah he said it just came down to possessions he was worried that they wouldn't they might only get one more possession of the game they're close to midfield uh he felt like they had a chance and he had to hit her roll the dice um you know i don't know to me the bigger problem was the play before um you know if if you felt like you were going to go for it on fourth down if you felt like okay because it was third and five and so if in that situation third and fourth so in that situation if you think you might be going for it on fourth down then wouldn't you try to do something to at least get two or three yards on third down i would have run it on third down instead they tried to pass it's incomplete now it's fourth and fourth you run it on third and four and you pick up two or three yards now the defense has to worry about the run or the pass i think up four them four they knew it was going to be a pass and they were able to to deflect the the pass attempt well to me getting out your own end and getting it out close to midfield it's called flipping the field field position in a one-possession game to me i i don't know it's a no-brainer to me i think he totally pissed the bet on that one hey you're definitely you know with the consensus i know he's killed by the fan base and i actually asked mckenzie then after the game i said look man your coach is going to take a lot of heat for that call you know what do you guys think his players and he said you know obviously he said you know we love it uh we got to execute and he sounded like mckenzie was putting a lot of the whole game on himself and the receivers and you know he's not going to blame the receivers but he said several times that they ran a lot of rubber outs that should be man-beaters and nc state's defensive backs just beat their their their man-beaters and so that comes down to your receivers having to make a play but but at the end of the day you know we know what this receiving core is and and you know it's probably too much to ask them to do much against the decent uh secondary yeah i think every it would be i've never submitted a quarterback that didn't want to go for it on fourth down so i'd be surprised if he said you know what we should have punted that would have been that would have been something i guess the other one we brought up a little bit it was really an odd call late in the game and i know it was probably over it's probably moot but it's they get they get the penalty when they've got them held down there on this would have given them second person 18 whatever it would have been they'd have been inside their 10-yard line they declined the penalty obviously the motivation was to i guess limit the time let's get this over with quicker so we get the ball back but to me at that point you make them so one-dimensional because doran inside his 10-yard line suddenly there's no way he's throwing the ball he's not going to risk that so i think you get an automatic three and out and punt so did was that brought up or what was your feelings on that it wasn't brought up but yeah i'm with you guys i just assumed they didn't want to take more time off the clock i think it was under four minutes at that point they're down two touchdowns you know i mean it's just one of those where it didn't work out because they didn't get a stop they gave up the first down but you know seemed like the game was pretty much over and truthfully you know again that that drive was another one where you know they're picking up these 10-yard plays and i know the game was probably over um but that's the tough thing about this defense is like you said there were stretches where they were dominant they did a really good job against the run game they did a good job to get pressure on the quarterback leery doesn't get sacked much and they got a lot of pressure on him they did a good job of that um but just you know too many breakdowns and not just the missed tackles but also some some uh plays where they you know missed coverages in the sack here thomas who i thought played a good game when we spoke to him in the post game he he admitted at least one of those plays was his fault he was supposed to get the guy in the flat um just not a sharp game defensively overall i don't think even though they played well at times i'm glad you brought up her boy care man what a great game he had the sack they mentioned in the broadcast if you saw it the outstanding tackle for the wolf pack had not given up a sack all season and then keir beat him on that one where he got the sack and to me the play of the season was the fake cramp i don't know if that was brought up but what a fantastic plan because i mean i give credit to leary because he he went right up to the line they were gonna i'm convinced they would have got that snap off before it would have been stopped and because he did that they were able to get that netflix possession that was a huge play yeah it really was that's the thing that stinks about losses one of the main things let's think about losses is there were a lot of cool plays in that game he shot hilton's catch before the touchdown you know holding on to that ball when he got clobbered i thought it was targeting they reviewed it didn't give him the targeting uh but then they come back and uh he has the the touchdown play i mean mckenzie if you get a chance to listen to mckenzie's interview um at the end of it i asked him about that play and he you know he said look that keyshawn was running to the corner to the left corner of the end zone was the design of that play he ends up catching the touchdown in the right corner of the end zone and just you know speaks to you know just how hard that kid plays and um the onside kick you know great call great execution by parker growth house i mean there's some nice moments in that game kyra thomas had those those big sacks um you know some nice plays that you know they actually got an interception off of uh larry which never happens he hasn't had an interception six or seven games but when you lose especially by two touchdowns at home nobody's going to want to hear about any of those plays so mckenzie didn't say he was throwing the ball away on that because we're convinced it's out you're going to mention tom sorry that it looked to me like he spun around he started to do his best ej manual impression and spinning around in the backfield and then he it looked like he was just trying to throw the ball away so he legitimately was that legit that touchdown he's he says he saw him coming okay you can choose to not believe him but he says he saw him coming uh ira quick question about pre-game uh just as you were obviously you know scouring the field i'm sure with the binoculars to see who was available and who wasn't i saw a couple of the reports from uh the boards on warchan that dylan gibbons did take reps in pregame but clearly he wasn't good to go and then baby on did or did not because those two names we all know we already know about travis but those two names are going to be critical i would think next week against miami so what did you see pregame from them yeah dylan gibbons did take some reps but pretty much always with the second team so that i think he might have been there in emergency purposes only and i think it's because he i don't know if he practiced at all this whole week um he may have pressed practice a little bit but i think that's um you know he was there he could have played probably if they had to have him but i'm thinking the fact that he didn't practice all week i think brady scott got all those snaps that's why he was the guy i don't know for sure he was available but it looked like he at least was going through everything um and then baby on johnson was not out there was not dressed out in fact didn't even see him on the sideline in street clothes so my my guess there is maybe the flu um because you know usually if a guy is injured like lawrence tophely was banged up sydney williams is banged up they were there on the sidelines uh baby on johnson wasn't even on the sidelines so i wonder if maybe like jordan travis uh my guess is maybe he's he's still sick was there any i mean you would think this is a one week thing i would hope but is there any indications when they do tomorrow that they're going to be out there when they do the the post game and that or or did he talk about will you hope to have these guys back in the next day or two yeah i don't think they know because like you said i mean some you know they did say a lot of guys were sick at least 25 guys around 25 guys missed at least one practice guys were getting ivs during the week uh trying to do everything they could to you know stay hydrated and be able to play he said some of the guys that played today were not feeling it but you know but stuck it out and wanted to play my guess is it's not the end of it one interesting thing he actually said mike gorvel said that um this started to hit them right before the clemson game like during that trip they started having guys come down with it uh and it's gone throughout the entire week and like i said some guys still aren't there so my guess is it may continue early this week but um you know obviously it's miami this game can kind of i'm not gonna say salvage fsu season but if you could win this game and it would do so much for this football team so you know they're going to do everything they can to to to give it a go this week i said that earlier and i said all this is moot if you beat miami i think at the end of the sea you look at the end of the season you go no you know it's not what you wanted but we'll take it at this point ira and hey one thing tell mike norvell next time the team gets flu shots how about that how about we do that well they haven't they haven't officially said it was the flu they're saying uh wow uh some sort of we know it's not covid so it's something it's an illness yeah i don't got anything else tom for five star no that's it well okay one final question real quick just i know this will probably be in your 3-2-1 but does do today's events given everything that happened this week change your opinion of you know what you think about florida state and miami or is this almost like a game that you have to treat as a one-off i do kind of treat it like a one-off and you know i was saying earlier in the week that i thought miami i thought they match up better with miami than i do at nc state i never thought even with jordan travis i thought this was gonna be a tough game uh for them to win just because of the you know the circumstances the way nc state plays etc um so it doesn't change too much for me and look man and corey and i they're gonna end up arguing about this this week on several headlines because you know he made the comment during the week about how i heard him on on happy hour i think saying it again or maybe i'll wake up war chance saying again how you know this team's got to be past moral victories it's gotta be past close losses you need to start winning games and like i i got that except this second half of the season was supposed to be mostly losses anyway i mean the reason we thought this team was probably gonna go six and six and maybe seven to five was because we didn't know if they could beat nc state we didn't know if they could beat miami we didn't know if we didn't think they could be florida on the road uh so my point is you know this this isn't like a shocking loss nc state's number 19. they've had a really good season they're seven and two even if florida state had everything they were going for him i don't think it was a sure thing they were going to win this game so it doesn't change my to my opinion all that much about this team um and it also doesn't change my opinion about that miami game i think miami's defense is not very good i think they're sloppy i think florida state's got a chance to i think floor state's defense will do well against uh miami's offense so you know as long as they bounce back from this game health-wise uh i still think floor state's got a good chance to win that game so you got your 3-2-1 coming probably tomorrow i'll have grades up in the morning you and corey doing the wrap here shortly um i don't know if corey's going to do you got to get corey do something special for me i've already had somebody say i guess i'm shaving my beard if they beat miami i don't know if you can get corey talk him into doing something crazy maybe pouring something in his face you know something like that they beat miami at least pin him driver to do something crazy if they if they play like they did in the first half again he might pour acid in his face i never want to see this again of but yeah and he's writing this column right now he should have that up on the side shortly uh check out corey's column uh should be soon and austin's writing a story as well so we're plenty of coverage of this uh magnificent performance coming up on the site and everybody get your flu shots thank you ira thank you everybody see ya managing editor irish shofel joining us here on the war champ post game show tom and yeah yeah i pretty much wrapped it up but i know people don't i see people are mad i'm there they're going to be mad on our message boards you hate to say like he said it's a one-off it really is i mean you just can't i get it you're tired of the l's racking up it was you know there's some ugly parts of this game on both sides of the ball but man when you you said 25 guys were either miss most of the practices or we're not in the game because of the flu i mean what are you going to do yeah right exactly and you put yourself in a position like listen i'm not all about moral victories when you have the resources to win the football game when you have the resources to win many football games more than you're going to lose like that's an over 500 season i don't know if we know what that is around these parts anymore but when you have those resources and you lose games you shouldn't that's when i'll be pissed off for now i'm not going to be the guy banging my head against the wall saying uh excuses excuses these are reasons they're legitimate reasons there's a difference yeah yeah it's it's tough now he gets paid big bucks to figure it out but i mean i'm actually pleased that they found themselves to be in a position to win the game on the road to clemson and they were in a position to not you know screw it up on a fourth and four today but they did that too so there's uh there's a lot of things to consider for the next week and it is miami hate week coming up but before we get there we've got three callers remaining on the war channel can we give techno gaming here a little shout out here milton's performance and yes definitely shout out to the marching chiefs we love the marching jeeps great job by them as always and i always hey if you love them always want to encourage people we've got our game day page and also with the it's game day we put up this skull session i think it's an hour and a half before kick off go out to hauser stadium watch those guys they do a great job appreciate i you know built all things considered the limitations i mean he missed a couple he like he said iris in the post game he admitted making a couple there a couple there's a third down pass i think at some point he had i forget who the receiver was threw it behind him because it should have been a conversion he didn't have his best game but he gutted it out he played fine given the limitations the offensive line the receivers yeah i think he's maximizing what he is throwing he'd like back as the third and fourth before that infamous fourth and fourth call he even he said zombie that was wide open i think that was cam i forget uh but uh also techno gaming and dr plaque's a friend and i married a marching chief so yeah there you go shout out always to the market caleb in memphis the land of mike norvell welcome to the program caleb how are you doing how you guys doing appreciate your patience caleb yeah thanks for sticking around with us go ahead what's going on um i want to talk about mckinsey milton because it feels like he's catching a lot of slack for what happened this game although like all the other external factors but the system isn't meant for him to win games here and i really wish that he transferred somewhere else because he probably had a little bit more success even though he's not that great but it's just the lack of a receiving core in just how badly banged up our offensive line was like if you watch the film mackenzie milner is dropping back five and six steps and when he doesn't have a strong arm it looks like he's throwing at 30 and it's going five yards so looking and looking into the future i think that it doesn't matter who's a quarterback the wide receiving core needs to get better and i'm interested in what's happening inside that recruiting process but that's just the end of the day so well we appreciate it that's really what i wanted to get off my chest thank you yeah thank you caleb yeah thank caleb you are preaching the choir i'm pounding the desk i've been saying it from the beginning this wide receiver and i think cory's with me too on that oh i'm gonna be in trouble i think my did my charlie ward light go off yeah you already want to oh my god is he already i'm in trouble i said i'd get that fixed man no but um no absolutely caleb makes a great point i mean i think i do think mckenzie's i think in a certain different situation he might have been a better fit the wide receiver course simply it's not a very good wide receiver which is crazy at florida state there's just been some misses in recruiting the transfers whatever happened you can say but it's just not good if if guys could get stuff if he got a little bit more protection than guys could get separation i think he could be successful somewhere but unfortunately it's a situation tahani got dealt sam florida state got dealt you can i don't know how much you can play mike norbell because this goes back to really willie taggart's recruiting a lot of those high-end wide receivers he recruited didn't pan out the jordan young's or they transferred some of those other guys and say what you want but they just don't have the talent that they should have at that position it's a roster you gotta flip i know that some people you can't tell me that these other teams in the acc have more talent well i yes i can because they do and they the nc state's got two two or three receivers that are they would all start at florida state they're better yeah not to mention some offensive linemen that would certainly start here as well davis in orlando to the 407 we go welcome davis you are a penultimate caller tonight on the war champ post game show thanks for calling and uh go ahead with your thoughts thank you guys so much for uh calling yeah tough loss but given all the circumstances again what do you expect you know you got a one-legged person trying to run a marathon you know like you're doing this yeah so and thank you to you guys for all you're doing you know and again i know the team has heart they don't quit so i support them so my question is um i've heard some i always thought you had to get six wins to get to a bowl game but it's oh you could get in maybe this year with five it's like is that a possibility because i see two of our games being definitely winnable not sure about all three but i guess your question can we get to a bowl game with five wins or does it have to be six and thank you very much thank you davis appreciate the phone call i mean yeah you can i mean it's uh there's gotta be some exceptions but i think a lot i mean what's happened more in recent years is teams opt out too many players leave they don't want to go to bowls for whatever reason so these bulls have obligations so they can take some five win teams in florida if florida state were to win two of the last three games and they get the five wins i think they're gonna be a very viable team that someone's going to want them in a bowl game because the fans will probably especially if it's somewhere florida georgia the fans probably will travel so i mean there's definitely a possibility of five wins that they could sneak into a bowl yeah 100 yeah that's a rule that changed in recent years uh davis and part of it is that more bowls exist like more and more bowls exist so you've got to fill the slots somewhere and as gene said you know the corporate champions of these bowls are number one for the bulk committees but secondly if they can get to some revenue from the gate they'll take it and that's where if you're choosing between two five and seven programs and one of them is florida state and the other is a group of five team you're gonna choose the seminole fan base because the gas gorilla bowl you're gonna take cleveland state or you're gonna take florida state who's gonna go down there you know and this isn't a year where we're coming off a 10-win season we all know that so we would be excited i would think you know that's where i think that also plays a role in from the administration standpoint to say yes to it and from the fan base standpoint to uh to attend it our final caller tonight is in tallahassee we finished in the 850 which is where we start his name is dan and he is talking to genewilliamswarchant.com and myself welcome dan how's it going hey how you doing um hey dan my question worked how you doing my question was about the offensive line so like is it a reason is it an excuse for our offspring to be so bad like consistently compared to other teams even though we should have like better players or even match players because i look at so many other teams and they're the offensive line don't look as bad as i was like we have jordan travis like running every single place like because you have guys like breaking through the offensive line so is it excuse for that or what do you think about that well dan's right i mean well a couple key offensive line were out for this game dan so that that was part of the reason why they really struggled but yeah i mean it's it's not a it's not a secret they've really struggled recruiting the offensive line for several years you know it seems like they they've got they're slowly but surely getting to things better i think i like alex atkins a lot the offensive line coach they're better than they were last year i know you did it didn't look like it today because some of the losses but they have made a little bit of progress from one year to the next but they still need to continue to build it through recruiting through transfers and i think you get everybody but dlt back probably next year so it should be better next year look it's baby steps and you're absolutely right florida state is deficient on the offensive line compared to almost everybody it plays and that that goes back to just poor recruiting i mean i don't see anything different tom but i mean it's not a state secret they're just they've been good there for several years no agreed and it started back in uh with with rick trickett you know that's where this all began nobody wanted to play for that guy and so the cupboard was a little bit bare for willy and uh breaking news willie didn't really add much to the cupboard before he left here uh so that puts you in a position where you've got four or five years of fledgling players a couple of which that are still around uh but you've had to address it through desperate means transfer portal um you know maybe accepting some guys into a recruiting class or two that you might not otherwise in florida states at peak efficiency but you know this is not only an offensive line issue you've got the same issue at linebacker you've got the same issue at wide receiver which we just talked about so you know the one thing i'd say is you know if you're looking at other programs around the country and you're saying how is it that florida state is this deficient at this position it's not the only of its kind yeah you need the same thing how is florida state this bad at receiver how is florida state the team in the 90s that defined linebacker play in the south this bad at linebacker yeah it's i mean it's there more positions than not you're saying we're not deep enough and in some positions you're saying we don't even have good players so that's the task that mike norvell was hired to fix if he keep this recruiting class mostly intact uh good for us because that that's the other thing too gene if this signing day was february i'd feel a lot worse about holding on to this recruiting class because seriously once yeah for once the early signing period is a good thing it seems like it's hurt florida state in the past but this year may be a good thing let's hold on this class another month and what 10 days whatever it is so we're close man appreciate the calls tom we're an hour and a half into this thing do you think we're going to go this long no i i didn't um but we appreciate everybody's feedback everybody who supported us on the warchant.com chat tonight the uh the donations the pillars we love you guys we thank you terry of course ira from stadium side and remember folks early signing day is coming up soon that's an event to bookmark uh because we're going to cover it wall to wall chance.com and mostly mostly for the now it's miami week everybody so screw miami miami let's get the hate going let's go not hate the real kind like football haters yeah the fun the rivalry hate bubbling to the surface we'll know about the kickoff time shortly we'll have that information at warchant.com we've got columns we've got stat bombs we've got content galore coming for you warchant.comwarchantv this upcoming week thank you to everybody who's tuned in tonight if you like what you saw hit the like button below this video so others can find it hit the subscribe button to our channel you won't regret it for gene williams the founder administrator of warchant.com my name is tom lang thank you for watching thewarchant.com post game show we'll talk to you next week