Fmr. Senator Pat Toomey on Trump, Johnson Meeting

Why did you leave Capitol Hill OF PENNSYLVANIA BACK WITH US ON BLOOMBERG. WELCOME BACK. WHEN YOU SEE A HEADLINE LIKE THIS AND LOOK AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT, IS THAT THE REASON WHY YOU LEFT CAPITOL HILL? >> I'M NOT ABLE TO SEE WHAT HEADLINE OR IMAGE YOU ARE REFERRING TO. JOE: SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE APPEARING WITH DONALD TRUMP AT MAR-A-LAGO. >> IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR THE PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE OF EITHER PARTY TO BE THE LEADER OF THAT PARTY. THAT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED UNUSUAL. WHAT IS UNUSUAL IS DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF OF COURSE. THAT MAKES THIS AN INTERESTING MOMENT. IT IS COMPOUNDED BY THE TENUOUS POSITION THAT SPEAKER JOHNSON IS IN. WHICH DONALD TRUMP COULD MAKE BETTER OR WORSE. AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WILL PLAY OUT. THIS IS WHAT IS UNUSUAL ABOUT THIS MOMENT. KAILEY: AND THE IDEA THAT IT SEEMS WHATEVER LEGISLATIVE ISSUE CONGRESS IS DEALING WITH, IF TRUMP DOES NOT WANT TO SEE IT DONE, IT IS NOT DONE. IT IS -- IT IS IT -- IS IT TYPICAL FOR SOMEONE NOT CURRENTLY IN OFFICE TO HAVE THAT INFLUENCE OVER POLICY AND LEGISLATION? >> I THINK YOU MIGHT BE OVERSTATING IT SOMEWHAT. I THINK -- I'M NOT SURE DONALD TRUMP REALLY WANTED TO SEE THIS REAUTHORIZATION PAST BUT IT DID. TWO THIRDS OF REPUBLICANS VOTED IN FAVOR -- IN FAVOR OF IT. THERE IS A PRETTY GOOD CHANCE AID FOR UKRAINE DOES END UP PASSING. YOUR BASIC POINT I AGNELLO. IT DOES APPEAR -- I ACKNOWLEDGE. IT DOES APPEAR DONALD TRUMP IS ATTENDING TO EXERCISE MORE CONSORT -- MORE CONTROL OVER THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Ukraine funding AND YOU WOULD NORMALLY EXPECT FOR SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A SITTING PRESIDENT. JOE: WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? THERE ARE GREAT QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO UKRAINE FUNDING. WILL IT DEPEND ON WHAT HAPPENS TONIGHT OR DO YOU SEE A WORLD IN WHICH THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE WORKS AROUND THE RULES, BRINGS IT TO THE FLOOR AND HOPES FOR THE BEST? >> I'M HOPING THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS. I THINK IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE THE SPEAKER COULD PERSUADE DONALD TRUMP TO TAKE A PASS ON THIS. THERE ARE THINGS I THINK WOULD MAKE GOOD SENSE. THAT WOULD MAKE IT A LITTLE LESS CONTROVERSIAL AMONG SOME REPUBLICANS. FOR INSTANCE I THINK AT THIS POINT, RUSSIAN ASSETS SHOULD BE USED TO FUND UKRAINE, ITS RECONSTRUCTION, ITS DEFENSE OF ITSELF. THE BEHAVIOR OF THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT IS SO APPALLING AND SO OUTRAGEOUS I THINK THAT IS A COMPLETELY REASONABLE RESPONSE. AS FAR AS MAKING THIS A LOAN, IT IS NOT REALISTIC UKRAINE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO PAY BACK VERY MUCH OF THE AID THEY HAVE GOTTEN. IF THAT IS SOMEHOW ACKNOWLEDGED IN THE FORMULATION, THEN CALLING IT A LOAN IS NOT THAT BIG A DEAL . THE IMPORTANT THING IS THE U.S. HAS TO DEMONSTRATE WE ARE GOING TO FULFILL OUR COMMITMENT. WE ARE GOING TO STAND BY A FRIEND, A COUNTRY THAT HAS BEEN TRYING TO BREAK FREE OF THE APPALLING DOMINANCE OF RUSSIA, HAS TURNED TO THE WEST AND PURSUED DEMOCRATIC AND MARKET REFORMS. IF WE ARE GOING TO ABANDON A COUNTRY LIKE THIS TO A RUTHLESS AT AUTHORITARIAN WHO ROLLS THROUGH WITH TANKS, COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD ARE GOING TO RECALIBRATE AND RECALIBRATE WHAT IS IN THEIR INTEREST AND IT IS GOING TO BE BAD FOR THE UNITED STATES. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT WE GET Republican Party THIS AID TO UKRAINE DONE. KAILEY: AS WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITH YOU, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP IS STILL SPEAKING AT MAR-A-LAGO SPEAKING TO THE POSITION THE SPEAKER FINDS HIMSELF IN. HE SAYS IT IS NOT AN EASY SITUATION FOR ANY SPEAKER SHOULD HE THINKS HE IS DOING A GOOD JOB GOING ON TO SAY MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE WHO HE SAYS HE GETS ALONG VERY WELL WITH UNDERSTANDS THAT IT HAS A LOT OF RESPECT FOR THE SPEAKER BUT MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE AND OTHERS IN THE HOUSE WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE UKRAINE AID. THERE IS A FACTION WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE THAT DOES NOT SHARE THE VIEW THAT YOU HAVE. WHEN WE THINK ABOUT HOW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS BEEN RESHAPED, ARE WE SEEING SOMETHING THAT COMES -- THAT GOES FROM INTERVENTIONIST ISOLATIONIST IN TERMS OF GEOPOLITICS AND FOREIGN POLICY BUT PERHAPS MORE INTERVENTIONIST IN OTHER AREAS LIKE IN MARKETS AS YOU SEE JOSH HAWLEY TRYING TO PROPOSE AN INTEREST RATE CAP ON CREDIT CARDS? >> THERE IS A LOT TO UNPACK THERE. I WOULD NOT SUGGEST AN INTERVENTIONIST TO MUCH AS A READY THAT ACKNOWLEDGE AND RECOGNIZE THE LEADERSHIP ROLE UNITED STATES PLAYS AND IS UNIQUELY ABLE TO PLAY AND HAS BEEN IN OUR INTEREST TO PLAY THAT LEADERSHIP ROLE THAT WE HAVE PLAYED SINCE THE END OF WORLD WAR II. THERE IS NOW A FACTION THAT REJECTS THE IDEA THAT THE U.S. BENEFITS FROM THIS LEADERSHIP THAT WE PLAY, FROM THE FACT WE ARE ABLE TO BUILD LARGE AND BROAD COALITIONS THAT SUPPORT EACH OTHER AND SUPPORT US. THERE IS A FACTION THAT REJECTS THAT IDEA. DONALD TRUMP SEEMS TO GENERALLY REJECT THAT IDEA. WE HAVE TO WIN THAT ARGUMENT INTERNALLY AMONG REPUBLICANS SHOULD I THINK IT IS STILL A MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS THAT RECOGNIZE IT IS IN OUR INTEREST TO CONTINUE TO LEAD THE WORLD RATHER THAN LEAVE THE WORLD IN OUR OWN INTEREST TO THE TENDER MERCY OF THE CHINESE COMMUNISTS OR VLADIMIR PUTIN. WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT FIGHT AND YOU ARE RIGHT. THERE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY A MOVEMENT WITHIN THE PARTY TO EXPAND THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT DRAMATICALLY. MY OWN VIEW IS WE ALREADY HAVE ONE PARTY IN THIS COUNTRY THAT ONCE A POWERFUL CENTRAL GOVERNMENT THAT ERODES OUR FREEDOM, REDISTRIBUTE WEALTH. WE DON'T NEED A SECOND PARTY TO DO THOSE THINGS. OUR PARTY HAS BEEN FOR MANY DECADES MUCH MORE COMMITTED TO PERSONAL FREEDOM AND ECONOMIC FREEDOM AND TREMENDOUS PROSPERITY THAT COMES WITH IT. WE CERTAINLY SHOULD NOT CAST THAT ASIDE FOR SOME COLLECTIVIST CENTRALIZED MODEL THAT IS INSPIRED BY A SOCIALIST Trump IMPULSE THAT WILL NOT PROVIDE THE PROSPERITY AMERICAN PEOPLE DESERVE. JOE: IT SEEMS YOUR PARTY HAS SETTLED ON A NOMINEE. IT IS DONALD TRUMP THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR THIS COUNTRY IN 2024? >> I HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR DONALD TRUMP IS NOT MY PREFERRED CANDIDATE BY ANY MEANS. HE IS ALSO NOT PARTICULARLY IDEOLOGICAL. HE DOES NOT SPEND TIME READING, ACCUMULATING KNOWLEDGE AND TAKING DEEPLY ABOUT THESE VARIOUS CONSTRUCTS AND IDEAS. HE HAS RELATIVELY FEW VERY FIXED IDEAS ON -- IN THE ECONOMIC REALM OR OTHERS. ONE IS HE IS VERY HOSTILE TO TRADE. HE IS HOSTILE TO FREE TRADE. VERY MISGUIDED AND IF HE COULD -- IF HE BECOMES PRESIDENT AGAIN, I THINK WE WILL GO THROUGH VERY DIFFICULT TARIFFS THAT WILL BE DAMAGING TO THE ECONOMY, DAMAGING TO AMERICAN EMPLOYMENT. BUT HE SEEMS TO BE ON THAT PATH. OTHER AREAS, HE GOVERNED AS A MORE CONVENTIONAL REPUBLICAN. HE WAS BIG ON ROLLING BACK EXCESSIVE REGULATION. UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, WE HAD MASSIVE REGULATION SHOULD IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO ROLL THAT BACK AND DONALD TRUMP CERTAINLY DESERVES CREDIT FOR HAVING DONE THAT ON JUDICIAL NOMINEES HE PRETTY MUCH WENT ALONG WITH CONVENTIONAL REPUBLICAN ORTHODOXY AND NOMINATED PEOPLE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS WANTED. IN SOME WAYS, HE GOVERNED AS A TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN BUT I GET THAT IN MANY IMPORTANT WAYS HE IS NOT THAT IT IS A CHALLENGING TIME FOR OUR PARTY.