O'Connell, Adofo-Mensah talk cutting Jaren Hall for Brett Rypien and 2022 draft

hey everybody welcome to another episode of purple Insider Matthew caller here along with danne Mizani for a porch podcast we just drove from TCO performance center following a conversation with Kevin oconnell and press conference with quacy daensa and now we are here to talk about everything we learned about what went wrong with the 2022 draft which was the main focus of our conversation but I want to start in a slightly different spot which is with jiren Hall I think it came as a little bit of a surprise to some that the Vikings decided to cut jiren Hall and to sign uh Brett rippen who was with Chicago but he's also been with several different teams including the Jets including the Denver Broncos I remember seeing him with the Broncos in a joint practice like four years ago which just tells you how some of these journeyman quarterbacks uh really bounce around but uh it sounds like they want jiren Hall back as of this moment we don't have news on him coming back to the practice squad I would be very surprised though if he ended up anywhere else so your take Mr misani on the handling of the backup quarterback situation thus far yeah I I will say I was surprised at first in a vacuum when it comes out that jiren Hall has been waved because I thought he was impressive through the preseason I thought there was kind of an investment in his development and when you first hear someone getting waved you kind of assume like is it over for them and it's clear it's not um why I think it was actually kind of a smart like functional roster move to do it the way they did is because now all the practice squads are filled and while jiren Hall might not have been claimed off of waivers anyway this week now there's a very low chance he is because a lot of times these teams have filled out their practice squads and it looks kind of the way they want it to look claiming jiren Hall at this point would then have you'd have to move some other things around so it just it it gives you a better chance to get him through waivers but I think what was a takeaway from today was that they're still kind of invested in his development but they don't want him to play so how invested can you be in this development when you're not willing to play him that's a question that I think they will continue to ask themselves as they they work and progress to kind of grow jiren Hall into a quarterback they hope he can be if it's a backup I don't know but looking at kind of the whole approach and how they've handled this backup quarterback situation now I think it is interesting that they bring in a guy like Brett rippen and they obviously already have a guy like Nick Mullins in it it shows kind of how last year and how everything went wrong has kind of shaped the way that they want to kind of design this quarterback room in a perfect world for the Vikings Sam Darnell would be the quarterback all year he will he would sell and you wouldn't have to be thinking about making a change at any point if they have to make a change at any point because Sam darnold is bad they're screwed they're screwed either way but I think bringing in Brett rippen having Nick Mullins on the roster you at least give yourself at least these guys have played NFL games before it looked so bad with jiren Hall I don't think they wanted to go there with him and it does leave me kind of wondering are they thinking about making another move at at some point with backup quarterback but there's clearly an investment in Plan B whereas before it was kind of you rely on Kirk Cousins and his you know dur ability to get through the season and if he gets hurt you're screwed you're still screwed if Sam darnold gets hurt or if Sam darnold is bad but you have to have a plan B as last year showed and I think this is kind of a kind of a step in that direction um at the expense of jiren Hall spot on the roster right now yeah I think uh It's always important to remember that uh we love to react to preseason stuff and I think for certain people it matters it mattered to Christian Jackson it matter to Taki tman but when it comes to quarterbacks and quarterback stats I think that we have enough evidence over our times covering the team and uh certain instances where there have been major arguments within the fans about backup quarterbacks that just throwing to a wideopen receiver who then runs 40 more yards for a touchdown is not going to mean that there is actually something there with a player and with jiren Hall I agree that they have invested enough in him where they would want him back on the practice squad and in an ideal scenario someday jiren Hall is their backup quarterback but we're now two years into this and they don't trust him to be on the field I think we can probably call it at this point a lot of precincts are reporting that jiren Hall is not a backup in the league that he is more of one of those guys that bounces around as a number three quarterback everybody likes him he's a professional he could go in the preseason he can give you reps and what I thought he did a really good job of is giving Tristian Jackson a chance giving Trent sherfield a chance allowing for the coaching staff to be able to evaluate those players and ultimately make those decisions because he played well enough under those circumstances but it's pretty clear from this move that we don't really want you anywhere near the field in an actual football game which is fine because most people are not capable of doing that I don't know that Brett rippen is going to be any better than what jiren Hall was based on his handful of career times getting an actual games it hasn't gone particularly well he's a little more physically gifted he does have an arm if I remember correctly but I also think that anytime we're talking about backup quarterbacks screwed is usually the thing 90% of the time there's probably five or six teams in the league who could say you know what if our starter went down we could survive it and most teams that are in a decent place with that that they're usually good teams so like the Pittsburgh Steelers last year they were not entirely screwed when they had to go to Mason Rudolph but they were a really good football team especially their defensive side was one of the best in the NFL and if the Vikings were going to survive any non Sam darnold games unless they make a major change and get someone who is significantly better than Nick Mullins they're all kind of Nick Mullins I mean when you look at Nick mullen's career stats it's actually kind of funny to compare him to to other backup quarterbacks because he has just as good or better numbers than a lot of backup quarterbacks when you look at box score stats now if you look at something like PFF or qbr those turnovers and turnover worthy plays usually crush his grades uh they may go out and look for somebody else Tyler Huntley got waved he got the Ravens to a playoff game where they might have won had he not fumbled at the goal line but we're still all talking about different versions of Josh dos anybody coulding at this so I guess is do we think Sam darn could play a full season because he has not been able to do that uh throughout his career and that's what they're going to need if they're going to have a chance to make the playoffs is Sam darnold to remain healthy and not have any point during the year where Kevin oconnell walks into a meeting and says to Josh Macau should we bench him or should we keep going with this because when Mullins threw four picks they did bench him for a jiren hall that wasn't anywhere near ready and I just want to say that there is a a little bit of like misremembering how that went I thought that if they believe that jiren Hall was ready then sure it's fine to play him but now they've talked as it like oh well you know it was it was too bad we pushed him into action like you didn't have to push him into action not the first time they did when he got hurt but not the second time they did that as a reaction to bad play which makes you wonder could Sam darnold have a point in this season where they get frustrated and decide to do something else because throughout his career he's had those massive down streaks at times yeah it's certainly possible like I would hope they would use last year as a case study not to do that like not to be so reactionary and I get it last year when you were in that fire Kirk obviously goes down Josh dos was amazing and then he was not amazing at all Nick Mullins was a disaster with some roller coaster fireworks in between so I get like the pressure cooker of like let's try this guy um but I would hope that even if Sam darnold struggles at times and I think he probably will because there like he's just he's a walking turnover at points in his career with a really nice arm so I think there's going to be times where you might have that temptation of like should we should we do it don't um I think that barring injuries Sam Darnell will play the whole season for the Vikings because they learned from last year um I think that there's going to be times where the fan base might say like can we do something else and like that's when I want people to think back to August 29th on the porch when we talk about the backup quarterback always seems better in theory but you're screwed if the backup quarterback has to play so unless like you said unless the Vikings go out and get a top tier backup and I don't even know who that would be right now because if you have a top tier backup you're keeping them uh then there really is no reason even if it if there are UPS if there are Downs with Sam darnold that that he shouldn't just play out the string injuries obviously a different story um and and I've been kind of bullish on Sam Dar I think he's going to have his best season to date because I mean that's not that hard to do right now um because of the the weapons he has around him but I do think it's going to be more of a roller coaster I I just hope they're they're willing to just stay on the roller coaster and not jump off and and and go somewhere else because I don't think like just because it worked with Case Keenum once upon a time I think people think that you just switch to the backup and it's it's going to be fine more often it looks like last season than you know the Horseshoe Case Keenum year so to answer your question in a long-winded way yes I think Sam darnold plays the whole year for Better or For Worse okay let me throw us scenario at you that just came to mind as you were talking about this let's just say that the Vikings start out one and six okay but somehow Sam darnold hasn't been that bad let's say that he has like an 88 quarterback rating and he's been okay but will rard missed the game-winning field goal one week not that that could ever happen not possible based on what we've seen in training camp this is why it's a hypothetical folks uh but Le let's just say you know maybe they uh had the other teams that they play that are very good just outperform them because Houston's a better team because Green Bay is a better team and they lose six ones score games and Sam darnold played well and another team that has high expectations gets its quarterback hurt and they call and they say look you know we are we're we're five- two we're winning our division whatever team X but our quarterback just went out for the year can you trade us Sam darnold is it worth looking for someone who could play the rest of the way because I don't know that Nick Mullins could play all those games I don't know that Brett rippen or and I definitely know that jiren Hall can't play all those games is it worth trying to find someone who has started multiple games over their career to be ready for that potential scenario where you need a quarterback who can keep you fairly competitive the rest of the way but also hey they're offering a second round pick and you don't have many draft picks for next year like this is something that could happen to them yeah it could I see someone something like that happening probably not but I think like the Crux of that hypothetical is probably reason enough to at least canvas the market on on a backup quarterback that isn't Nick Mullins that isn't Brett rippen because and generally speaking about backup quarterbacks in the past I haven't cared because I don't know if it really matters if you have to go to your backup quarterback but this is a a weirder year and obviously the calculus changed when JJ McCarthy got hurt but yeah I think if there is an option out there that you you being quacy doens or Kevin oconnell think could help the football team perform at a higher level than any combination of Nick Mullins and Brett rippen you should do it and I don't mean trade draft Capital cuz you don't have a lot of it but if it's Tyler Huntley sitting out there Mike White sitting out there just any guy that that you've seen flashes over the course of their career that look better than Nick Mullins I think it's worth exploring that Avenue um if Sam darnold is good through the first seven weeks of the Season they're one and six like this hypothetical talked about and a team offers you a second round pick I would be interested what the Vikings do because it would be kind of a departure from what they've done in the past to just say like you would be quitting on the year at that point you're one and six so you might want to quit on the year anyway but they've never really quit on the year um so it would be interesting to to see that kind of play out um but I think to your point about just like having that conversation that hypothetical and and the discussion and discourse creates like yeah it's probably worth trying to see if there is a different backup quarterback out there just because I don't feel great if if Sam darnold either goes down or is roller coaster up and down Sam darnold about the options behind him you're very much straining yourself on this like you're you're trying like uh I guess they should try to get somebody it's just because like backup quarterbacks like so hard to get like like yeah they need to go do it like because they're just they're backups for a reason and the available ones aren't good so like yeah if they could get a guy better than Nick Mullins they should but that sounds better in theory than than being able to actually execute it Sam darnold is starting for this team there's not 32 competent starting quarterbacks much less if you are if Sam darnold was a backup as he was in San Francisco he's one of the better backup UPS in the entire league uh but that kind of shows you the fact that he was a backup last year and no one made him a starter just where this whole thing is with backup quarterbacks in the NFL which means that we shouldn't spend much more time on this people just love backup quarterbacks love talking about them and uh also this is the windiest porch podcast so I apologize if uh if we've got a little wind noise coming in but the running back situation now is kind of interesting so we heard from qu men about the running backs and why Ken Wong wo didn't make the roster but miles gasin did and the answer is that miles gasin is going to be the kick returner a veteran player formerly of the Miami Dolphins that hasn't played a whole heck of a lot in the last couple of years but I also got the sense that they like that Miles gasin could play multiple things on special teams and they didn't say it at any point but I think we could infer that miles gasin can block a linebacker or safety should they run free at your quarterback as happened with Ken Wong wo when he got absolutely steamrolled against the Raiders and I think that Wong wo had something like I don't have the stats right in front of me but there was something like eight pass blocking snaps and four pressures or something something like that I just don't think that they could trust him as anything more than a kick returner but it also sounds like they don't think that the kick return is going to be the same they they seem to feel that the kick return is going to require a more physical element to it and Wong wo is a pure speed guy he's not a run between the tackles he's not break tackle type of guy and it may just be different U but it also sounds like they can trust gasin and they must have been sure that they could get him to the practice squad because when they cut him and there's only two running backs you're looking around go well who's going to play running back here but I guess they're going to elevate gasan until they have to sign him to the 53 and I still think if there's another running back out there that they have to add to that position but uh what was your feeling on how they handled the running back room yeah I think it it's they tried to make it about miles gasin as much as they could quy damena talked today Kevin oconnell talked today they tried to make the roster decision to cut Canan wongu more about miles gasin and I guess I kind of see it like yeah Smiles gasin is more accomplished as a running back and you can theoretic play him at a point in time during the season whereas I don't think you'd feel comfortable doing what that with Kenny wongu but what I'm saying when I say that they tried to make it about miles gasin it was about Kenan wongu it was about the things that he can't do and if you had a crystal ball and told the Vikings KY Wong was going to return five kickoffs for a touchdown this year they would have kept him on the roster but I think they nobody really knows what to expect with this play and nobody knows how teams are going to handle it so it's not enough to just say you're a really good kick returner your spot on the roster safe because they need you to do more and Kevin okono said something interesting it was like don't think about the 53 think about the 48 basically think about the people who are playing on game day and miles gasin is going to be a guy playing on game day because he can do a lot he can can return which is what he's going to be for them he can personal protect on punt he can play running back if you have to have him do that and he if he is playing running back he can pass protect in a way that I don't think Kenny noong would could or they didn't feel the full trust in in having kenong would do that so like it was surprising when keny got cut on roster cut down day but then when you hear them talk about it actually kind of makes sense like part of me was what are they going to do for kick return now like and I think the idea is like try and have it be a play that matters but it probably is not going to be a game-breaking play enough to make up for all the deficiencies that you lose keeping Ken Wong over miles gasin so it's kind of crazy we're talking so much about a third running back but it does like show kind of the Insight of how you roster build in the NFL like they have to do more than just one thing you have to have more in your bag than just one thing and while Kenny nongu has one thing he does really well miles gasin has three or four things that he does pretty well and and that weighs out and wins in the end folks US Cellular noticed that the way we use our phones has gotten to be ironic we try to put our phones down for dinner but the menu is on a QR code that's ironic we hit like on social media posts that we don't actually like ironic which is why US Cellular has created us mode to help us reconnect with each other and use our phones less ironically a phone company wanting people to use their phones less ironic let's find us again with us mode from US Cellular visit uscellular.com SLB built for us to get started and when you can't project what that kick return is actually going to look like I I think that made it more difficult if this was 2006 and you knew that he was going to get 58 kick returns this year for the long kick return where he would have the full ramp up and he would be able to get the motor up to 100% and like he did with the couple kick returns for Touchdown I don't think there's any chance you get rid of him because those players used to be major assets for teams if you had a great kick returner that was a nightmare for your opponents they had to worry about all the time but then once they start kicking out of the back of the end zone that reduces uh your value and then now with this first of all we don't know how much they even going to kick off how many opportunities they're going to be and we also don't know as clearly what the skill sets are that are going to be the best for those uh for this new kickoff and it might just be being able to break a tackle or two it might just be being able to be the second guy which I think is a factor too if there's two guys back there you need a blocker and are you playing 10 on 11 or are you playing 11 on 11 and if it's Wong wo maybe you feel like you're playing 11 on 11 this is the Deep In The Weeds football that happens right before we get a real game to talk about I I think but that was the most notable cut so we did get some answers on that now uh we should probably shift to the 2022 draft portion of the program which you know sometimes every once in a while we'll get accused of uh being a little too easy on the team this was a this was a full grilling of the organization on what went wrong in the 2022 draft and uh to their credit they could have said guys the draft picks go wrong all the time have you seen Dwight mgln like have you seen our undrafted free agents who uh we've gotten right or all these other draft picks that we've gotten right uh but instead there were a lot of introspective answers from quaa and Kevin oconnell and I got the sense Dane that they have thought about it a lot they have thought about what went wrong so we had this wide range of things from quy Mena and Kevin oconnell anywhere from the fact that oconnell had showed up a week and a half before the NFL combine when he got hired in 2022 to there was a mention of how random the draft can be and I always go back to Lou Cene looked like a good Prospect to me even though I thought they should have just stayed and picked but it's not like they picked some random guy from akan or whatever they picked the guy from the best defense but it sounds like they really did a full Deep dive of themselves an analysis of themselves of what went wrong to get that draft so sideways outside of hey if Jaylen Naylor's good it'll look a lot better or Tai Chandler but to go so wrong at the beginning of that draft and quaf Mena made a kind of an interesting metaphor where he said that he had asked Kevin oconnell about how they came back from down 33 points and he had felt that way when he took over as if he had to every single problem and this actually resonated with me because I remember on draft night saying if you draft for need you're chasing your tail except for a quarterback of course but if you just say I've got to fill a safety position I've got to fill a guard I've got to fill like those are not the premium positions number one uh but also oh I've got to trade down because I have so many needs that I have to fill every single one of them right now and I've got to resolve the cap long term it feels like remember when they said Smith was swimming when he got here yeah IR Smith got released uh I that's one I had wrong I thought that was going to work out but I think that uh I think quao when he first took over was trying to solve every single problem at once and he was trying to accumulate enough draft Capital to set up the entire roster with one draft completely for the future and did not realize that that's impossible to do because he was a firsttime general manager that's what I took away from the discussion about the 2022 draft with these two guys yeah and I think it was interesting that they went so deep with us like that they were willing to like obviously they're going to be introspective behind closed doors and talk about this draft the fact that they were willing to talk about it on record to us was very surprising to me I appreciated it they probably didn't need to do that it opened the door like you said for pretty big grilling from reporters asking follow-ups and why did you know what about this part of your process has this part of changed that part like there was a lot there because they kind of opened the door for that I do appreciate the accountability I appreciate that that wasn't we're not talking about the 2022 draft class so the draft is random let's move on there was at least a want to or what felt like a want to be accountable 48 hours after you cut your 2022 first round pick 3 weeks after you traded your 2022 second round pick um I did think the metaphor was like I see what quacy was talking about about how talking he talked to Kevin oconnell about what was it like to be down 33 to zero against the Colts how did you come back I understand like the Crux of why that metaphor clicked in his head what I will say is like you weren't down 330 like walking into that roster there was a lot of talent there you went 13 and four so maybe not the cleanest metaphor but I understand it at its core what he was talking about and you're right it was he tried to solve everything he tried to he said at one point have a 33-point play with the way he built the roster and I think that's an interesting way of like reflecting on that draft because when he reflects on that draft it's pretty clear he's reflecting on it similarly to how everyone reflects on that draft which is you almost got too cute trying to fix all your problems at once and I guess I can understand a first year GM thinking I got it all figured out I'm GNA I'm going to do this we're going to trade back the draft's random we want to draft the safety to replace Harrison Smith down the road and Kyle Hamilton's right there but if I trade back I can get Lewis seen and pick up some other draft picks to to fix out the rest of the roster it just shows like it's not a math problem it's not something you can plug into the computer and and spit out and answer and I think it's something that quacy has learned to his credit over the last two years and it's been a hard lesson along the way because when you whiff on your first and second round picks from your first draft not only is it going to be something you have to answer for for the rest of your tenure as the general manager but it's something that impacts the roster moving forward and we're seeing that kind of happen in real time um but I really did think just today walking into the facility it was going to be more about this season what to think about the roster the 53 that you landed upon the 17 practice squad people how is Sam darnold going to project and instead it was kind of like group therapy about the 2022 draft and like I need to go back and listen and watch because there was a lot there um it's not something that's going to be able to be turned so quickly because there's a lot to unpack there um but I appreciate that we at least get to unpack that so the there's uh two ways that I I would look at this maybe a a slightly better metaphor might be that you think about we're doing the podcast on the porch here when you buy a house and you're not a homeowner yet Dane but you will be someday uh there's always things if you get not a fixer upper but even just any house you buy there's always things you need to do to your right is the garage we just built and I had to put together a studio in the basement and the day you buy the house you want to fix every single thing you want to resolve every problem you go through with a person that looks uh like deep into the house you know and everything and he'll point out 50 different things and you're like oh I got to fix this I got to fix this I got to fix this and what you have to do is one it's it's one one bite at a time like yeah all right let's do this first and then next you have to organize what the most important are and you have to kind of have a long-term plan for that but you have to do it patiently because you can't resolve every or you're going to go broke you just bought a house you can't you have to you have to organize one of the most important pieces that I have to fix right here and maybe instead one of the most important parts was getting young centerpiece Talent rather than just a lot of players that's that's one way that I look at it and that's how they've done it the last a couple years I mean they just stuck with Jordan Addison they didn't trade down that's a centerpiece player they uh also this year trade up for Dallas Turner that's a centerpiece type of player and those guys are easier to fill in around they're hard it's hard find Dallas Turner it's not as hard to find Theo Jackson there are safeties out there who are smart and tough and good and you can fill in uh the other positions so that's one way I look at it the other way I look at it is guys let it go because this could have just as easily been a great Draft when you go back and look at the draft analysis 2022 draft analysts people who do this professionally looking at the draft and Grading it out thought hey good trades down you got a lot of good players Andrew booth on a lot of boards was top 15 LS Cen was uh in the top 20 in a lot of boards it looked like even from a lot of the analytics people they said the numbers match up uh maybe draft overdrafting a guard was questionable but some of the other players they got in the middle late rounds everybody liked the idea of Brian aswa this undersized linebacker who's going to play in this donatell system look at him run sideline to sideline and sometimes you just have to shrug your shoulders now I mean I appre appreciate the reflection and for them saying to the public here's what went wrong and here's how we corrected and we work through our process also got Brian Flores maybe that could be helpful as well in evaluating your players but there's another part of it that says don't overcorrect think about it this way if if I'm in this house right now and the other night there's the tornado warning going on if I got hit by a tornado in this house and it wrecked the entire thing I would probably say you know what I'm not going to buy that house right over there cuz I got hit by a tornado but what are what were the chances of me being hit by a tornado I shouldn't overcorrect and move to Wisconsin of all places just because I got hit by a tornado in Minnesota and something completely random happened and I don't think that they have wildly overcorrected but they have it to some extent and if the Dallas Turner things go goes wrong that's something I've defended a lot I like Dallas Turner as a prospect a lot I like trying to get a piece of a uh position that's so valuable and if you want a good one you have to pay $30 million for so all that made sense but they spent a lot of draft Capital to get there and that seems like an overcorrect from Trading down to get louen so what you don't want is them chasing their tail of saying what what isn't that a Vegas thing like don't chase your losses it feels like a little bit the last couple drafts they have chased their losses a bit one more thing this really doesn't matter it just I know that everyone would have preferred to have Kyle Hamilton Jordan Davis in the long term of this team there's always hits and misses they found Theo freaking Jackson who can play cam bam they didn't know was good now they do Josh matelis they didn't know was good now they do if you swap one of those guys and it's Matt Tellis was bad and scene was good we'd feel totally different about the front office instead it's like oh okay well you know now they're they were a failure they don't know how to draft all those things I don't think that this had that much of a long-term impact which is why as we were talking about it I was like can we can we move on can we can we talk about Trent sherfield making the team or something I just wanted to kind of like I I'm so exhausted of this discussion of 2022 but I do Wonder now after today after as you called it the therapy session they seem to have with us are are are you guys over it now like have you guys moved on from what happened there because maybe after lisen gets cut they can finally just put it in the rear view yeah I I do think lisis scen and moving on from him signals a turning of the page and if today and this is probably giving us too much credit but if talking about it publicly and addressing it publicly is a way that they can finally get it off their chest and I think we're all better for it cuz I don't think anyone really wants to talk about the 22 draft class anymore I certainly don't I know Die Hard fans are going to live and die with that one forever because when you don't hit on a first round pick when you don't hit on a second round pick you just do the little let's go back and look at who was selected around that number we could have had this guy or this guy or like I get it like would they have liked the draft picks to hit yes um but I think Kevin okono hit on a little bit of what you were talking about with the overc correction and while I think every decision you make in the past should have at least some impact on how you perceive or move forward in the future he also talked about like the process and if we are doing what we believe in and we're sticking to these certain parameters and rules and and values that you can feel good about the way the draft so I I think he was almost saying like we're going to take accountability for this we definitely have reflected on this but we're not going to overhaul our draft strategy for it you kind of did this year by trading the farm for Dallas Turner by even trading up up one spot and trading some pretty valuable Capital to get JJ McCarthy I'm okay with that because they are premium positions and if they hit we're not going to care about the third round pick or the fifth round pick that you traded or the third other fourth round pick that you traded to to move up and get a valuable position um but I do think it was like kind of two like diverging Paths of like we we've we've reflected we're accountable we're not going to change our process and it all kind of jumbled together in in something that I really think needs to be like further unpacked you know at a later date because I I don't think anyone left that press conference feeling like huh I got a Moment of clarity here like it was a lot in in 15 to 20 minutes of both guys um but to your other point about it doesn't matter it's right like the San Francisco 49ers drafted Tre Lance traded up to get Trey Lance and got Brock pie would they have liked to get Brock pie with the last pick in the draft and taken I don't know whoever the best Edge rusher was at three yeah they would have but they're they're fine like teams Miss on draft picks and it's something we have to live with and I I get it like the armchair general managers at home have never missed on a draft pick in their life but it happens and fans have to move on reporters have to move on head coaches have to move on general managers have to move like the 2022 draft class happened and it didn't work out at least on the the top half now we probably have to just kind of go forward and I like I said to start like I think moving on from Louis allows you to do that he was always going to be on the roster and therefore you were always going to talk about like it's the fifth safety on the roster and you drafted him in the first round like now he's no longer here he's in Buffalo so we don't have to talk about him anymore we don't have to talk about Andre Booth anymore um and I think we can hopefully as a group just move on from that draft class after this weekend you know what I think sticks with people so much is that I don't think as human beings we are very good at acknowledging Randomness even when we know it's that's fair that even qu daensa in the first conversation he had with us at the combine I asked him if he felt that the draft was random and he said yes but I think that there's ways we can sort of push our odds a little bit better than maybe the next best team but he acknowledged that all the history all the studies that have ever been done on this thing say that you just can't predict with any level of strong accuracy what college players are going to do in the NFL because it is a fully different Universe And yet when it goes wrong you go man what did I do I should have done something totally different and uh yeah I guess that's kind of why we want to go over it over and over again who could they have picked what were they thinking why did they take this player but now that it's over with I look at this roster and think from top to bottom on the 53 my first question I guess I didn't know we were doing this this 2020 draft grilling cuz I was like how do you feel about the timeline you know and I like happy to see everyone back at school or whatever and it was like oh I didn't know this was a funeral that we were uh doing here for the 2022 draft class but how do you feel about the uh the time and by the real quick real quick also comical with this whole thing that there's so much attention for a failed draft pick but he mentions JJ McCarthy confirmed everything that they ever could have dreamed of and we just were like yeah yeah yeah but back to like AWA right like back to back to this safety that doesn't matter because you have the best safety group in the entire league it just was sort of I I don't know I can we change the subject uh but you know it was uh interesting to hear him say that about JJ McCarthy that they feel like they got even more than they expected we've had we've had some obstacles here today we're down 3 we're battling through we're down 330 and we're having to work through this but um what else what else were you thinking about yeah I I was like your first question and the way he talked about like the timeline the current roster his belief in the current roster I agree with I think like I think the hard part about that conversation is everything hinges on Sam darnold and whether he's good or not but if you just look at the roster top to bottom like go by position by position and I've done more 53 man roster projections than God over the last month so I know like position by position you you break it down lots of Talent on this team and I think that at the premier positions they have talented players so like it could work if you get good play from Sam darnold because the roster as a whole is a pretty talented roster I think what when you hear him talk about JJ McCarthy the way he did today saying he's confirmed everything we know when you hear Kevin conell talk about that in Cleveland at joint practices saying there's no doubt in my mind he's a franchise quarterback that's going to always kind of be like the biggest wh if of this season for me is that like if Sam Darnell was bad the fail safe was that we got to see it and maybe JJ McCarthy would have looked really good and maybe he will in a year now but because the roster was so talented and because JJ McCarthy showed flashes I'm always going to kind Wonder like what could it have looked like if it doesn't work out with Sam darnold now if it does work out with Sam Darnell everyone will be happy they'll be like 9 and8 they'll be flirting with the playoffs and and and I think Minnesota would be thrilled with that um but if it doesn't I'm always going to think like this roster is pretty talented right now as currently constructed despite the 2022 draft class U and I I I just it sucks that JJ McCarthy got hurt I don't know like I don't know why that's how this all thing like this thing circled back to is but it sucks that he got hurt because I think that there was potential for this to be really exciting no matter what and now it's only exciting if you get above average to good quarterback play from a guy who's been kind of Topsy Turvy his whole career so talented roster the most important position on the roster though is the quarterback position and that's still a big question mark so I thought it was interesting that quy daensa referenced over unders which is something that I wrote about and talked quite a bit about when I was out in Vegas with murf because the 6.5 number is so interesting to me and I think that he was tying this into the roster in general that the known of this roster can get you to a certain Baseline y the Jonathan gards the Andrew van gingles the Justin Jefferson's but whether you have a good season or not is going to depend on the unknowns which is of course the biggest one Sam darnold he didn't say that but that's who he was referring to is the biggest unknown but there's also the other part of the jayen Naylor the uh left guard Blake brandle the there's a number of players here and I wrote about that today like there's a number of players here who will move the needle even someone like Tai Chandler is likely to have to play uh with Aaron Jones and at this moment we really don't know what Tai Chandler actually is and whether he can move the needle or not and be a part of a Duo because if they have a great running game with two Unstoppable backs who catch the ball and pass protect and everything else uh but the range of outcomes is very wide on that they could feel halfway into the season like Tai Chandler is just not playable or they could feel like they've got something really good here I could see both and we've seen both from Tai Chandler and even Jaylen Naylor where we've been coming in here and telling you how good Naylor's B and their confidence is high in him but it it might get hurt in week one like there's just a lot of of unknowns with the roster the biggest one uh being Sam darnold but just to go back to the McCarthy thing and when you hear them say that like yeah he was actually even exceeding our expectations uh I don't think it's lip service based on what we saw and how adamant they've been about it as opposed to because we know what it sounds like when a guy fails now we've got a big enough sample size like well it's I'm really he's a great person and we've got a plan for him and that's not with JJ McCarthy it's definitive and it's concise this is the guy and uh I had this Vision in my brain of the Vikings go they drop to two and four and it's time and McCarthy goes 500 the rest of the way but you totally see it and then there we go onto onto the next year where it's it's going to be exciting and the fact that you don't have that button to push uh the fact that we don't have that infusion of energy into the season and it all relies on darnold I felt like you could sense that nervousness in quaa a little bit with the way he was talking about it because he knows there's a lot of good players here he knows even that the linebacker position they've got guys and they picked up a really good Corner in Stefan Gilmore and that there's spots where they're very strong as a roster and I think overall despite the 2022 draft happening they are they are good top to bottom and if Jordan love came over here and play they'd be talking about this team as you could win 12 games with them but that's not where you're at with the quarterback and I I think that in that building there is a ton of nervousness that if Sam darnold does not outperform anything he's ever done before none of that's going to matter and then we know got to keep coming back to it that the owners want to win and there will be heat on these two guys if it fails even if you did a lot of things right and that one position went wrong yeah and I think that's a good point about like the two and four start if JJ McCarthy came in you finished seven- 10 8- n missed the playoffs like the tener would be different because you at least got to see what the future looks like if they go seven and 10 and it's just kind of like like yeah there's going to be it's it's a hot seat situation for quacy doens and I think he knows that like and that's where you keep going back to the JJ McCarthy injury and yeah it sucks for for us who cover the team for fans who watch the team sucks for quy though cuz this that was part of his plan like the plan that he's finally got to execute and he's mentioned that a couple times that basically he had to build the roster in a certain way before he got to move forward with the plan that he wanted to to you know move forward with as far as constructing this team but this plan this time Horizons that they talk about coincided with getting a bridge quarterback who might be able to outperform what he's done in the past and pairing him with a first round pick that you can always turn to if things go bad with the bridge you don't have that anymore so that that's why like you are right there is pressure you can feel it you can feel the tension I also think like this whole past two months like has been filled with tension and once we get to September 8th like we can actually just start talking about games and I think that inherently will ease some of the tension until you start losing which will then inherently bring back some of the tension um but I think right now we're just we're we're trying to project what this season's going to look like and that's hard to do and that's scary for the front office to do because you don't know what it's going to look like and you don't have like you said that button to push and say we're selling hope now it's time let this is the guy this is the 21-year-old that we've hitched our wagon to and ready to go you don't get to see him now till he's 22 So the plan that was in place has no changed and and you kind of have to reap the you know the consequences of that I think the biggest thing though that we could still take away from this entire training camp is that in 2025 they will start the season with JJ McCarthy believing that he can take them to places they haven't been before and all the other stuff the draft class the receiver depth the random udfa who shows up and is good and all that stuff it matters 1% in comparison to 99% what we saw from JJ McCarthy this training camp ends up being in my mind still a big success just to know and trust me when we see it go bad we really know it's not going well with a quarterback and that's why I'm saying that it matches up with what quacy said what Kevin oconnell has said that they can be confident in that it still makes this a pretty big victory for them for this entire training camp and that's way more important than a lot of the other uh nuances that we can get into uh you made a a promise to me at some point that I want I want paid off right now got your phone next to you my phone's over there my computer's over there so pull up hold up hold up your phone schedule I was told that you were going to pick the schedule okay and we're going to do rapid fire here because it's been quite the breakdown podcast let's do but I want you to run through Rapid Fire and I'm just going to tell you somebody asked me the other night on the live stream find nine wins and I found them I found nine wins it was a battle but I found them so I want you to go game by game you don't have to give a long breakdown just wins and losses what you think they will do in the year 2024 on the spot so we're going to try and find nine wins I don't know what's about to happen you to try you don't have to try I just want you to look at the game and then pick I don't want you to try to find no idea what's going to happen over the next two minutes let's go okay Giants week one I think that's a win I'm just going to count the wins I think that's a win week one ners week two loss Texans week three loss Packers week four loss I had to find one out of two there with the Texans and 49ers to get to nine okay that's fair Jets week that would be five yep I think they can win that game it's in London it's weird and I I'm not sold on Aaron roggers like I think Aaron Rogers there's a chance he's not even playing by that time because he's coming off in Achilles tear and he is old and the Vikings now have Brett Rippin they have no answer exactly so we'll give that a win and that's probably being a little generous but two wins heading into week five week six Lions loss week seven Rams loss and then this is where it kind of turns the schedule gets a little so they are two and five they're two and five here's the question if they're two and five though because you start to talk about the turn of the schedule are they trading Aaron Jones are they trading Harrison Phillips are they trading cam bam for for the sake of this exercise they're not but that is something that they should consider because last year I think they should have traded denil Hunter at the deadline when it was clear they aren't going to make the playoffs when your quarterback goes down when your star receiver is you know trying to fix his hand HST string n back to full strength but they're two and five now and for the sake of this exercise they're not trading okay heading into the Colts that would be week eight nine it doesn't matter Colts I that's a win you're at home um I think it's going to be a tough win because I think Anthony Richardson and Jonathan Taylor like I think there's a lot to have to scheme against I'll I'll bet on Brian Flores there making life hard on what is essentially a rookie quarterback and and Anthony Richardson so that's three wins on the road against Jacksonville I think that's a win I don't believe in Trevor Lawrence either because like if I don't believe in Aaron Rogers I think Trevor Lawrence like sounded really good and he there was regression last year I need to see it again I need to see Ascension to to believe it I I think they can beat that team just with the team that they have the top to bottom Talent we talk about golf trip though for us golf trip yes so four wins there but who you know we get the golf that's fun um Titans that's a win I don't think the Titans are very good Bears on the road I think that's a loss now I will say like a spoiler alert in 45 seconds I'm going to pick them to win at home um but Cardinals at home I think that's a win that's six kurk cousins return to US Bank Stadium I'm picking a win like because I think that Kirk Cousins I think that'll be a big game I've seen him in big games N I think there will be some nerves I think Brian Flores will get after him I think if anyone knows how to stop KK cousins it's the Vikings and people on the Vikings that have played with him for six years so we're at seven maybe I'm going to get to nine eight vik I already told you Vikings are beating the Bears at home that's eight Seahawks on the road that's a hard game but I we'll say nine they with the win and then they lose to the Packers they lose to the Lions so I found nine wins and I had to get a little creative to do it um but put on the spot I think what that exercise shows is it's not crazy if they get good quarterback play to overcome even what will look to be a slow start um because of the talent they have clip this up when they finished 5 and 12 will remember the porch pod uh but yeah I I think what I just show by picking the the schedule is that the team is talented and that they could in theory be a playoff team um again it all hinges on Sam darnold which is a big big big what if um but I'm excited to see it play out I I love this exercise to have people pick just because I like to see the wheels turn I like to see the the logic of well you know no probably not maybe and then when we get to the season we have no CL clue how it's going to end up playing out and nobody else does either I've mentioned that when I was looking at that 6 and a half there were I think three teams that were six and a half over under last year that made the playoffs or had at least nine wins but there is a ceiling when Vegas thinks you're going to be this bad there is a ceiling no team won more than 10 I think that was a six and a half win team and you are also assuming good things for Sam darnold I I think in that scenario so what this really does for everybody who picks the schedule and how you have to kind of fight your way to nine wins is it shows you how hard it's going to be with the schedule that they have but because it is the Minnesota Vikings you just never ever ever know what is going to happen so I really looking forward to you and I postgame East Rutherford New Jersey everyone that's where we will be doing our first real postgame podcast of the year so make sure uh you're paying attention to that and uh I'm excited man we have done how many how many podcasts have we done since the last game like 25 it feels like it's been a a long long time so I am completely ready for football no more talking about past drafts only talking about future games I'm really happy about that so Dane Mizani thanks so much for your time and stopping over to the porch and thank you all for watching SL listening and we'll catch you again next time football