welcome back to state of the nation for as long as secure starma has been leader of the labor party it's been clear that he cannot be trusted as we discussed yesterday he has flip-flopped on just about everything but on one issue in particular perhaps the most important issue in a generation the now prime minister went from this a growing number of people now think the only way truly to settle this is to ask people do you want to leave on these terms or would you rather remain to this don't see that and there isn't a case for rejoining the EU that means we have to make brexit work this is of course a remarkable transformation it's not a matter of say being in favor of shamima beum being allowed to keep her citizenship and then changing your mind which of course Dharma did and it's not a matter of saying you were good friends with Jeremy Corbin or somebody like that and then saying no no no you were never friends with that which the Reverend starmer also did no democracy is a far bigger issue than that and sakir took a dramatic u-turn on the question of whether the largest Democratic excise in British history should be heed or not now he wants you to believe him when he said this today with German Chancellor Olaf Schultz we set with Europe a reset with the EU that does not mean reversing brexit um or re-entering the single Market or the Customs Union but it does mean a closer relationship on a number of fronts oh a re set that's the new weasel word that we can add to our vocabulary of weasel words this new treaty that is being signed attempts to enhance trade with Germany it's a fascinating thing to try and do because trade is an EU competence so Germany has no legal ability to sign trade deals so even the reset isn't actually honest because it's resetting something that the counterparty doesn't have the authority to reset but if there is anything we should know by now about Germany country in stent that has found itself in of recession since brexit perhaps all those subsidies we paid into the European Union kept its economy going along it's that when it comes to trade it won't be making any concessions without the approval of the EU which will mean the UK coming closer into the eu's regulatory orbit which has always been the eu's requirement the funny thing is that's exactly what starma wants because he's a big government PR regulation uifile ignores all of the data that point us towards aligning with the US and the Pacific it's is prised on the question of the youth Mobility scheme Small Step Closer forwards to free movement he said this but we do not have plans um for the Youth Mobility um scheme but we do have plans for a closer relationship between um us and the EU as part of that Whit set oh the old no plans trick does he really think we're quite that gullible no plans is not a denial it's merely a desire not to tell you we have no plan plan today oh but now we found a plan whoopee never trust a politician who says no plans it is another of his weasel words that something will easily happen when they say they are no plans CU plans can be developed so in less than two months in office starma has Vindicated everyone who said he cannot be trusted and this applies to the Betrayal of brexit more than anything else the biggest vote in our nation's history as ever let me know your views mail Mar atgb news.com with me now is the Deputy leader of the rejoin EU party Richard moley Richard thank you very much for joining me you must be delighted with the way sakir is getting down to um improving relations opening the way to closer integration with the European Union well I'm certainly pleased that he's trying to reset the relationship with Europe after the uh disastrous relationship that we've had over the last four or five years that seems to me to be always a good thing to have good relationships with any country however I do think that you are overemphasizing his attention to trade at this time I think that the main reasons why K has made such a fast visit to Germany and France so quickly after his uh accession to office is the international situation which he wants to shore up he wants to improve foreign relations with Germany uh and make sure that our policies are in alignment and that is within the German sphere of operation and he wants to make certain that we are in alignment with our defense strategy and our defense uh expenditure of course we have a very serious War a foot in Eastern Europe and we have to coordinate very very well together to avoid that becoming even more serious than what it is I also think that he needs to get together with Europe in order to uh work together over illegal immigration which is a problem that besets us all and natur cooperation coer will achieve that let's on the Ukraine war for a moment because that's as you rightly say extremely important but Germany has been the weakest Nation over this early on it wouldn't allow British planes to fly over its airspace to deliver potential supplies to the ukrainians to help them before the War Began it has been foot dragging the whole way through Germany has been an obstacle to our helping Ukraine it's not an active or good partner in this I I couldn't agree with you more and that is the reason why Kama has made this rather urgent visit to Germany particularly at this state in the military conflict where it's hanging on a nin Edge he's probably asked Olaf Schult to shore up the German effort to get more in line with the British and the American effort to make certain that Russia is dealt with properly and Germany as you say has not delivered so much as it should do and therefore he's probably said this quite clearly to Schultz in an effort to shore it up but isn't this where we should have a coalition of the willing and that the ukrainians are asking permission to use British weapons to fire into Russian territory and that requires the Americans say so and that's the Rel relationship that matters that um the Prime Minister should be speaking to Biden to get that cleared through so we can give immediate help uh to Ukraine rather than thinking that we can push the Germans who of course were behind the terrible appeasement of the Minsk agreements that allowed Russia to keep Crimea in the first place well of course um we are I hope after brexit a Sovereign Nation and consequently we shouldn't need to have American permission to use our weapons as we see fit in this war and consequently I think what you're saying is not entirely relevant as Britain could allow its weapons to be used inside Russian territory irrespective of American wishes let's face it as you've always wanted us to be we're a Sovereign Nation now free of uh that sort of international restraint well we are a Sovereign Nation but if the weapons have um uh technological assistance from other countries we may not be completely free in how we give permissions for them which is I think the the point but anyway thank you very much for joining me Richard you're very welcome on this program but with me now is businessman and former brexit party MEP benhabib Ben thank you very much for joining me pleasure to be here well I just wondered whether you're you're going to um say I told you say about what about K sta immediately gets into office and he wants to Su I mean I wouldn't say I told you so I think the whole nation knew he was going to do this you know the clips that you played are self-evident aren't they the man is a europhile through and through and any pretense he makes of wanting to make brexit work is actually a false pretense and he wants to take us into closer alignment with the EU as you might recall he was in a summit in Montreal in September 2023 when he thought he was off air and he was being filmed and he said that actually if I were to become Prime Minister I will align us so closely to the European Union that I would I'll effectively neuter brexit and that's these are the first steps and I think it's no accident that he describes his uh arrangements with Germany which you so rightly point out cannot be a trade deal but he describes them as a trade deal because it gives the illusion that he's getting closer and he's laying the he's laying the groundwork to make us get closer to the European Union why is he being dishonest about something like that that I I don't understand this that everyone knows that trade is an EU competence therefore Germany cannot make trade deals and it seems to be a classic case of somebody who cannot trust in a little thing you cannot trust in a big thing and this is just one of those little lies that chose him to be fundamentally un straight anyone who's been awake for the last eight years knows that one of the reasons we wanted brexit was so we could make our own trade deals because we couldn't do it through the European Union but the other thing he's doing which I you know you touched on Ukraine and defense and so on and the other thing he's doing is taking us closer into military into operability with the European Union and we should be on firm notice we talked about sovereignty or Richard moley talked about being a Sovereign Nation actually military interoperability with the EU through its own weapons development program which it's doing through the European Defense fund under its own permanent structured cooperation its European Defense Union will basically mean the United Kingdom not being able to operate an independent military away from Europe and we know why they want that because however finished our own military is it's in a different League to anything on the continent well it's also as we're seeing with not being allowed to give permission to the ukrainians to fire our weapons into Russia you then become dependent on other countries say so and a lot of European nations are neutral or they're fundamentally weak that Germany and France's approach to Ukraine would never have evolved in the way it did without very strong uh leadership from the United States and the UK the Anglo Saxon sphere basally and uh you know as an i repeatedly saw moves by the EU which were antipathetic to foreign policy from the United Kingdom and the US when President Trump was trying to impose sanctions on Iran the EU was busy trying to find ways to circumvent those S sanctions you talked about Germany effectively being incredibly slow to challenge Russia actually Germany financed the Russian war machine to the tune I estimate of over 5050 billion Eur because it went on buying oil and gas through the nordstream pipeline which I suspect eventually was blown up by our own allies not by the Russians um you know which is pumping money into Germany when we pumping money into Russia and Gart Shader former chancellor of Germany was an executive of gas prom exactly so the interlinks between Russia and Germany were extremely strong and starma wants to get involved in all of this the United Kingdom must never make itself subject to EU foreign policy or EU defense we must stand outside the European Union okay you and I say this but starma has a majority of 170 in the House of Commons he can do it if he wants to can't he he can ignore that referendum in 2016 and he can get us back to being subservient to the European union he can do that and he may have some success initially but the British people aren't going to tolerate it you know he's been in office for8 weeks and every every step he's taken he has revealed himself not to be worthy of the Office of Prime Minister every step he's taken has been a breach of some promise or another and it's been so evident the way he's treated immigration the way he's treating the EU now the way he treats armed forces the manifesto pledge for armed forces was a commitment to 2 and a half% of GDP and now he's kicked it into the long grass by having some sort of review process going on the British people won't tolerate this and I think the only way out of this is a popular movement across the United Kingdom we may need to mobilize outside I don't mean in a violent way be clear but we have to mobilize the people to make the people democratically to make the Prime Minister understand that not withstanding his parliamentary majority he can't ride Russ shod over the United Kingdom well if runak was Solomon secur stama is reab boham thank you very much uh to Ben