Keir Starmer speech promising severe times under Labour to pay for New Communism (27Aug24)

Nick as you uh ended that answer uh I can see on one of my screens S stth Prime Minister walking across the Rose Garden he is now there at the Leon and uh we will listen in to what he has to say morning and welcome Sunshine no rain no wind probably tempting fate but it's really good to see you all here see familiar faces uh in this Garden say thank you so much for coming along this morning when I stood on the steps of Downing Street uh just over there two months ago um I promised that this government would serve people like you apprentices teachers nurses small business owners firefighters those serving our community and our country every day I promised that we would get a grip on the problems that we face and that we would be judged by our actions not by our words I said before the election and I say it again really clearly today growth and frankly by that I do mean wealth creation is the number one priority of this labor government and that's why in our first few weeks we've set up the national wealth fund because we want every person and every Community to benefit it's why we've unlocked planning decisions because we going to build 1.5 million new homes it's why we set up Great British energy to create good jobs and cut people's bills and it's why we ended the national strikes that have crippled our country for years because I defy anyone to tell me that you can grow the economy when people can't get to work because the transport system is broken or can't return to work because they're stuck on an NHS waiting list we've done more in seven weeks than the last government did in seven years and these are just the first steps towards the change that people voted for the change that I'm determined to deliver but before the election I also o gave a warning I said change would not happen overnight when there's a deep rot at the heart of a structure you can't just cover it up you can't just Tinker or rely on quick fixes you have to overhaul the entire thing tackle it at root even if it's hard at work and takes more time because otherwise what happen happens the rot returns in all the same places and it spreads worse than before you know that I know that and that's why this project has always been about fixing the foundations of our country but I have to be honest with you things are worse than we ever imagined in the first few weeks we discovered a 22 billion pound black hole in the public finances and before anyone says oh this is just performative or playing politics let's remember the obr did not know about it they wrote a letter setting that out and they didn't know because the last government hid it and even last Wednesday just last Wednesday we found out that thanks to the last government recklessness we borrowed almost 5 billion more than the OB expected in the last three months alone that's not performative that's fact but as well as the things that we've discovered we've also seen shocking scenes Across the Nation a Mindless minority of thugs who thought that they could get away with causing chaos smashing up communities and terrifying minorities vandalizing and destroying people's property even trying to set fire to a building with human beings inside it and as if that wasn't despicable enough people displaying swastika tattoos shouting racist slurs on our streets Nazi salutes at the senator the senator the very place we honor those who gave their lives for this country desecrating their memory under the pretense and it is a pretense of legitimate protest now they're learning that crime has consequences that I won't tolerate a breakdown in Law and Order under any circumstances and I will not listen to those who exploit grieving families and disrespect local communities but these riots didn't happen in a vacuum they exposed the state of our country revealed a deeply unhealthy Society the cracks in our foundations laid bare weakened by a decade of division and decline infected by a spiral of populism which fed off cycles of failure of the last government every time they faced a difficult problem they failed to be honest they offered the snakeoil of populism which led to more failure round and round and round stuck in the Rut of the politics of performance I saw the beginning of that downward spiral firsthand back in 2011 when riots ripped through London and across the country I was then director of public prosecutions and when I think back to that time I see just how far we have fallen because responding to those riots was hard of course it was but dealing with the riots this summer was much harder back in 2011 I didn't doubt that the courts could do what they needed to do this time to be honest with you I genuinely didn't know let me tell you this every day of that disorder literally every day we had to check the precise number of prison places and where those places were to make sure that we could arrest charge and prosecute people quickly not having enough prison places is about as fundamental a failure as you can get and those people throwing rocks torching cars making threats they didn't just know the system was broken they were betting on it gaming it they thought ah they'll never arrest me and if they do I won't be prosecuted and if I am I won't get much of a sentence they saw the cracks in our society after 14 years of failure and they exploited Ed them that's what we've inherited not just an economic black hole a societal black hole and that's why we have to take action and do things differently and part of that is being honest with people about the choices that we Face how tough this will be and frankly things will get worse before they get better I didn't want to release prisoners early I was Chief prosecuted for five years it goes against the grain of everything I've ever done but to be blunt if we hadn't taken that difficult decision immediately we wouldn't have been able to respond to the riots as we did and if we don't take tough action across the board we won't be able to fix the foundations of the country as we need I didn't want to means test the winter fuel payment but it was a choice that we had to make a choice to protect the most vulnerable pensioners while doing what is necessary to repair the public finances because pensioners also rely on a functioning NHS good public transport strong National infrastructure they want their children to be able to buy homes they want their grandchildren to get a good education so we have made that difficult decision to mend the public finances so everyone benefits in the long term including pensioners now that is a difficult tradeoff and there will be more to come I won't shy away from making unpopular decisions now if it's the right thing for the country in the long term that's what a government of service means this shouldn't be a country where people fear walking down their street their TV showing cars and buildings being set on fire this shouldn't be a country where the Prime Minister can't guarantee prison places this shouldn't be a country where people are paying thousands more on their mortgages or waiting months for Hospital appointments they desperately need where our waters are filled with sewage where parents worry that their kids won't get the opportunities that they did where nothing seems to work anymore so when I talk about the inheritance the last government left us the 22 billion pound black hole in our finances that isn't about a line on a graph that's about people people's lives your lives and the tourist are still not being honest they know their recklessness cost them the election but they won't accept the cost that they've inflicted on the country and they won't apologize for what they've cost you they're just still thinking about themselves now this government won't always be perfect but iay promise you this you will be at the heart of it in the Forefront of our minds at the center of everything that we do and that's why I wanted to invite you here today to show that decent hardworking people who make up the backbone of this country belong here this is a government for you a garden and a building that were once used for lockdown parties remember the pictures just over there of the wine and the food well this garden and this building and now back in your service it's not just that the last government relied on easy gimmicks and bad ideas those things happened precisely because the government itself lost its focus on the hopes and Ambitions of working people people during those recent riots I made huge asks of the police and of the Criminal Justice System people already stretched to the Limit they knew I was making big asks of them and I'm not going to apologize for it but let me tell you this they delivered they deserve our gratitude and that's why I went to Southport to Lamberth to Belfast to thank them personally to shake the hands of the first responded Who Rose up to the ask I was making of them they deserve a government that trusts them supports them and works with them that is the sort of government that we will be one that works with people not does things to them one that believes in hard graft not gimmicks honest about the challenges we face and working tirelessly to fix them and that is how we will always work now next week Parliament Returns the business of politics will resume but it won't be business as usual because we can't go on like this anymore things will have to be done differently we will do the hard work to root out 14 years of rot reverse a decade of Decline and fix the foundations between now and Christmas we will carry on as we've started action not words we will introduce legislation and take decisions to protect taxpayers money to take on the blockers by accelerating planning to build homes and boost growth we will forward this Autumn to harness the full potential of AI for growth and for the public good we'll bring rail service into public ownership putting passengers first the biggest leveling up of workers rights in a generation to give people security dignity and respect at work and Great British energy will be owned by the taxpayer making money for the taxpayer producing clean energy and creating good jobs that that is our Focus for the rest of the year but I will be honest with you there is a budget coming in October and it's going to be painful we have no other choice given the situation that we're in those with the broadest shoulders should bear the heavier burden and that's why we're cracking down on Noms those who made the mess should have to do their bit to clean it up and that's why we're strengthening the powers of the water regulator and backing tough fines on the water companies that let sewage flood our rivers lakes and seas but just as when I responded to the riots I'll have to turn to the country and make big asks of you as well to accept short-term pain for long-term good the difficult TR off for the genuine solution and I know that after all that you have been through that is a really big ask and really difficult to hear that is not the position we should be in it's not the position I want to be in but we have to end the politics of the easy answer that solves nothing but I also know that we can get through this together because the riots didn't just betray the sickness they also revealed The Cure found not in the cynical conflict of populism but in the coming together of a country the people who got together the morning after all around the country with their brooms their shovels their trials and cleared up their Community they reminded us who we really are I felt real pride in those people who cleaned up our streets web built the walls repaired the damage and I couldn't help thinking about the obvious parallels because Imagine The Pride we will feel as a nation when after the hard work of clearing up the mess is done we have a country that we have built together built to last that belongs to every single one of us and all of us have a stake in it our hard work rewarded a dozen times over because we'll have an economy that works for everyone an NHS not just back on its feet but fit for the future streets that everyone feels safe in no longer dependent on foreign dictators because we're producing our own clean energy right here and giving every child wherever they come from whatever their background the chance to go as far as their talents will take them I won't lose sight of that prize I won't lose sight of what we were elected to do and most importantly I won't lose sight of the people that we were elected to do it for you this is our country let's fix it together thank you very much thank you now I've got a number of questions from the media and I'll start if I may with Vicki Young from BBC News Vicki uh Vicki young BBC News uh prime minister you say that you want to be open with people but some will think that you weren't honest during the election campaign about changes to for example winter fuel allowance and many now want to know what the impact of the budget will be so if you're being honest can you tell them now what kind of tax Rises you're considering well two or three things Vic could say about that in the first place um we were being honest about the situation before the election we set out very clearly um what we would be doing with tax Rises I made it clear on numerous occasions that uh National Insurance vat um and tax would not go up the Triple lock for working people income tax and that remains the position I also set out uh that our plans were fully funded and fully costed what I did not expect was a 22 billion pound black hole and I know the tourists say that's performative if it's performative why didn't the OB know about it look at that figure of 5 billion last week in three months if that's performative why didn't the OB know about it these are basic questions about what we have inherited as I've just said I didn't want to have to deal with the winter fuel allowance for pensioners but we have to fix the NHS we have to fix uh our homes our schools and pensioners rely on them in the same way as everybody else does so I'm not going to preempt the budget um but I'm absolutely not going to accept that the inheritance that we have isn't anything that other than d a 22 billion pound black hoal and I just add to that what I said about the prisons because I obviously feel very strongly about this to have to gauge every day of those disorders when people are trying to burn down hotels I'm having to look at lists of prison places and where we've got them because of the mess that we were left that's disgraceful no prime minister should ever be in that position when trying to deal with disorder that's what we inherited that's what we will fix thank you Vicki Anushka please thank you Anushka ITV News prime minister you talk about choices and there are plenty of things you've chosen to spend money on you've chosen to give bumper pay Rises to doctors hire than for nurses and teachers and you've chosen to take these benefits off pensioners agk say 2 million will be pushed into hardship as a result so what do you say to those pensioners who are not well off who feel that you are choosing to balance the books on their backs well um so far as um the winter fuel allowances concerned firstly I would say it's not a particularly well-designed scheme frankly um and I think everybody would concede that I do think it's important that we make sure that the support is there for those pensioners who need it most which is why we're pushing for the pensioner credit uh pension credit to be taken up um and looking at other allowances um but um equally um simply allowing National strikes to go on and on and on and not resolving them was costing the country a fortune you can't build the economy you can't grow the economy if you haven't got a basic transport system that's working can't grow the economy if people can't get back to work because they can't get the operations that they need and we've got to get the economy going um and so that is why we've made the decisions that we have made and on the pay review bodies more broadly doesn't cover all of the disputes that we've had to um deal with um what we know is the government um didn't set a framework uh for that when they started down the road of the pay review and they put um at least one of them in in the cupboard of the buildings over the road and ran away from it we can't carry on like that we've got to make difficult choices thank you got Emily from Channel 4 Emily with the channel four news prime minister on prisons what guarantee can you give to the public that no prisoner who is left out early will go on to harm anyone or is the truth that you can't guarantee that and that the early release scheme carries with it an undeniable risk well look the first thing is um obviously we put in place a framework to ensure that we don't relas those um who create uh the greatest risk that's a basic safeguard that we've had to put in um but and and I'm not pretending for one minute this is a decision I want to make that's spent 5 years Prosecuting people and putting them in prison the idea of releasing people who should be in prison um because the prisons are too full and we don't have the places goes against everything I've worked for for years but we got to face facts they haven't built the prisons the last government they they've pretended that you could have longer and longer sentences send more people to prison at the same time that you could veto or choose not to have a prison built near you they were false choices and here we are without the prison places that we need so what are the options available to an incoming government let the prisons get so overcrowded that we can't arrest people and put them before our courts would that have worked in the disorder I don't think so I was really clear in my mind that one of the main ways in which we're going to have to deal with the disorder was making sure those who were throwing rocks setting fire to buildings on a Saturday or Sunday were facing the full face of the law within days had to create the conditions for that because the alternative you would be putting a question to me saying how come all these people in disorder didn't even get arrested have not been put before the courts and can't be sentenced because we haven't got any places this is not a decision that I wanted to take it's not a decision that any prime minister would want to take um and I can't tell you how shocked I was when I discovered the full extent of what they've done with our prisons and it's going to take time to fix it I can't build a prison by Saturday uh we will fix it we've already taken the measures that are necessary to make sure we can get through the disorder but I shouldn't be sitting in the Cobra room with a list of prison places across the country on a day-by-day basis trying to work out how we deal with disorder but that's the position I was put in and it's frankly not good enough thank you Emily Beth um thank you prime minister Beth rby uh Sky News um prime minister you say you want to build trust and be honest with people you've got off to a bad start with pensioners who voted for you and then you cut their winter fuel allowance and it wasn't in your Manifesto you also said in the general election you had no plans to raise taxes beyond what you'd set out in your Manifesto now you're saying something else so can you please level with people are you going to raise taxes and are you looking when you talk about the broader shoulders are you looking at taxes on working people are you now looking at a range of wealth taxes on shareholders homeowners big business thank you um but as I said in the campaign in relation to working people income tax vat National Insurance uh we will not increase tax I was clear before the election I'll be clear again um after the uh election obviously um the budget is uh in a number of weeks and the detail will be set out there but I say again what I said before the election which is um we have to get away from this idea that the only leing that can be pulled are more taxes um or more spending our number one mission is to grow the economy to make sure that we are creating the money in the first place that remains the number one Mission nothing knocks that mission um and that's why it's really important we have a transport system that works that's why it's really important we have an NHS capable of getting through the backlog that's why it's important we have the national wealth fund um Great British energy that we unlock planning so we can get on all of those decisions are decisions we've taken in the first seven weeks to make sure we get get the economy where we need it but we're going to have to take tough decisions I did not cater for a 22 billion pound black hole and that's because it wasn't on the obr's books we were looking at the available as as you were the available material but it wasn't there the obr didn't know about it that's why they're conducting a review is to find out why they didn't know about it um but 22 billion pound black hole on top of what we knew to be the situation is a problem that I'm not just going to pretend isn't there or that we can easily fix going to have to fix it we're going to have to fix it quickly because I genuinely do not think that the politics where we simply pretend things can be done that can't be done is working um and we will do it straight away that's why I called about sort of getting the rot out now because if we don't do it if paper over it we know what's going to happen it's like The Damp or whatever anybody who's ever decorated a house knows how this works uh pretend it isn't there paper over it and guess what in a year's time it's 10 times worse we're not going to do it that way thank you Beth I'm going to take Andy Bell uh if only um so that where is Andy Andy if only so I can say personally into your face well fantastic on your daughter's achievement in the Olympics Georgia is absolutely brilliant uh we were we were all glued to our sets and please convey our congratulations to as I know many people already have Andy thank you I wasn't quite expecting that um but thank you very much for that message um prime minister you talk about getting the rot out your administration's already been criticized for making a lot of appointments political appointments inside the civil service inside what should be strictly non-political appointments wouldn't it be a good idea to have a review Now by your commissioner for ministerial standards just to set the record straight to clear the air because at the moment a lot of people are wondering whether you really are getting the rot out in terms of the way public administration works well look Andy most of these uh allegations and accusations uh coming from the very people that dragged our country down in the first place so you'll forgive me uh if I take uh that approach to it um we are going to fix the foundations we've got to do it at speed and I'm determined to have the right people in the right places to allow us to get on with that job I'm uh enormously aware of how big a task this is and how we have to move at PACE um and that's why we're getting the best people into the best jobs but I'm not really going to take lectures uh on this from the people who dragged our country so far down in the last few years thank you I've got Kieran from the guardian thank you Kieran Stacy from the guardian just on that theme can you tell us why you've cancelled the appointment of your new National Security advisor and can you pledge that there will be an open and transparent process to replace that person uh yes uh of course there'll be an open and transparent process and no I'm not going to publicly discuss individual appointments thank you um Jack from the Sun thank you prime minister Jack Elon from the Sun um you've made clear today your reasoning for giving big pay Rises to public sector uh workers but now you've shown your willing to get your checkbook out um do you not risk spending the rest of your Premiership playing a game of whacka mall with ever growing Union demands and just quickly um you spent a lot of time today looking back in anger but are you happy that Oasis has decided to reform on your watch and what can I say in relation to that it's very very good U it's a great song I'm not sure I'm the best place to Champion it after the last 20 or 30 um minutes but uh look let's see what happens with Oasis um in relation to um the pay settlements look we were very clear before the election we weren't going to meet the demands of the unions uh they were making demands which we did not think could be met uh and we haven't met them we'll take the same tough approach as we go forward in relation to um any pay issues we have to take that um approach um and therefore um I will be as tough um on this uh as I was before the election because we have to be tough about it but I'm not going to pretend that having hospitals that can't operate properly is good for the economy or having a transport system where people can't get to work is good for the economy just sitting it out uh year after year was costing a huge amount of money so government has to get the balance right but let me be clear I'm going to be really tough about this um with the unions as I'm being tough with everybody else because this is part of the work we have to do uh to get out the uh rot and start to rebuild our country thank you I've got Chris from the times thank you Chris SM from the times just to follow up Andy's question um about the widespread concern of people with labor links being appointed to the Civil Service was your answer effectively that process doesn't really matter uh when the task is so urgent and if you are talking about uh honesty and service can you not just explain why youve appointed some of these people why Lord Ali for example had down street pass what he was doing here and again on Beth se you you said uh clearly wealth taxes were in the frame are you also saying to people that spending further spending cuts are also being looked at well let me be clear I I wasn't saying process doesn't matter um I I think you and others have heard enough from me over the years to know that process does matter uh to me procedures do matter uh to me and um I'm absolutely determined uh to restore honest Integrity to government because I think that is core to uh ensuring that people appreciate that politics can be a force for good uh I think one of the reasons people have been disillusioned disaffected if you like in recent years is because they can't see Politics as a Force for good so that process and procedure and doing things properly matters to me beyond the fact that it as it were should be done properly I think it's core to um politics so I didn't uh mean that and look if you take um Lord Ali he's a long-term donor and contributor to the labor party he was doing some transition work with us um he had a pass for a shortterm time to do that work the work finished and he hasn't got a pass you know that's the State of Affairs the second bit of your question I'm so sorry well look I mean try as you might I'm not going to preempt the chancelor in relation to the budget I am indicating they're going to have to be tough choices um obviously we made commitments in relation to tax on working people in the election which we intend to honor um and I frankly don't want to have to take the tough decisions that we're going to have to take but I'm not going to shy away I genuinely think one of the problems in politics has been people standing at P like this pretending that hard choices don't need to be made or pretending or knocking things down the road we've seen I don't know how much just knocked down the road the other side of the election get it somewhere else don't take the decision it's what happened with prisons decision should have been taken a long time ago but each month it was just knocked another month another month another month hoping somebody else would pick up the mess we can't go on like that so we're going to have to grip it and I want to it early and that's why I said in my speech if we have to make unpopular decisions now in the short term um to make sure the long term we can actually do the change that we want to to do that the five missions in terms of rebuilding this country are really important to me but I know I'm not going to be able to do them if I don't clear out the rck first and take those tough decisions thank you I've got Daniel from the telegraph hello uh Daniel Martin from the telegraph um how can you justify strike agreements with the unions when there's no inre uh it doesn't include any agree agreement to increase productivity and secondly on Ukraine do you believe that Ukraine has the right to use Storm Shadow in Russia um let me deal with um both aspects of that look we came to settlements on the pay disputes which I think people would say were Fair the um rate what was was not what was given um there was clear negotiation in those discussions um and as I say we can't pretend that uh strikes which would be going on a long time are doing anything other than holding our country back and costing us a future there's no no neutral cost um to this in relation to Ukraine um as I've said many times the position of this government is no different to the position of the last government um no new decisions or different decisions have been taken we have put additional resource in in terms of what we're providing both money commitments and weapons um commitments I'm not pretending the last government wouldn't have done that by the way because I genuinely think one of the good things about recent years uh in relation to Ukraine and there's not much good that can be said of it is that there's been a unity in Parliament um on that and as I've said to president zalinsky and the people of Ukraine um we will stand with them for as long as it takes I'm not going to get into uh tactical questions about the use of weapons for reasons that I know you'll understand uh David from the mirror thanks prime minister uh Dave Bo from the da Mera um prime minister on the subjects of uh hard choices uh will safe and legal Roots be extended on your watch and do you think this can play a ro and stopping the boats well as far as stopping the boats is concerned um we have got to take the down the gangs that are running the vile trade in the first place which is why we're setting up the border security command it's why uh when um we had the European political community meeting uh just two weeks after I was elected and we had 46 European leaders to blenham I discussed with them in some detail how we would work better together to take down the gangs that are running this vile trade in the first place I'm absolutely clear in my own mind that that's how it um will be most effectively done um just as as in the recent riots I drew on my experience of 2011 in terms of what worked to deal with the riots so with the gangs that are running this vile trade drawing on my experience of having taken down terrorism gangs um those that smuggled guns and drugs um I think that the same can be done with those that are running this B trade thank you and then Lucy from the Ft thank you Lucy fiser uh prime minister you've spoken today about restoring honesty and integrity to government and in your Manifesto you pledged to establish a new independent ethics and integrity commission with its own independent chair you've been in Downing Street for more than 50 days now can you commit to telling us when you're going to launch this commission and can you confirm today that the chair will have the power to launch their own probes autonomously and that they will be able to publish independent verdicts from those probes thank you uh well Lucy look that is a commitment that we made we will stick to it I don't have a precise date I do think it's important uh that it can initiate its own um inquirers if you like because that has been an inhibitor uh in the past um so uh that commitment stands uh as soon as we've got a date I'll give you um a date but I am very keen that it has the ability to start investigations under its own steam because I think that's one of the bits that's been missing thank you all very much indeed thank you he is greeting some of the 50 or so members of the public he met on the election campaign Trail including small business owners public servants and he took quite a number of questions from the media as well but uh he said there were no quit fixes to remedy what he called the rubble and ruin left by 14 years of conservative rule he talked of a financial black hole he also talked of a societal black hole and talked about the riots in the summer as one of the uh symptoms of that uh let's Let's uh go over to Nick Hardley who's been patiently waiting to talk to us in Downing Street Nick um what did we get uh that was tangible from K Dharma Karen the bit that really struck me was Kier starmer saying the budget in October is going to be painful that there are difficult decisions to come and there's a pretty clear indication actually that there are going to be tax Rises for higher earners when he said that those with the broadest shoulders should uh shoulder more of that pain than others so it seems pretty clear to me actually that kir starmer is rolling the pitch for the next few months to be full of decisions by the government that will be pretty unpopular short-term pain for long-term gain was the way that the Prime Minister put it now he's doing that at the start of his administration because this is the easiest time to do it frankly he's just won a comfortable majority in Parliament it's another 4 and 1/2 years until there's going to be another general election so this is the time the governments perhaps can afford to do the really unpopular stuff but as we've seen with winter fuel payments and as we may see with more decisions that the government announces unpopular decisions can lead to a lot of pressure not just from the public but also from MPS as well so the decision that number 10 now has to weigh up is what the specifics of that that will look like if the budget is going to be painful who's it going to be painful for and how does that look in practice and Nick whenever he talked about something painful that he has done or thinks the the labor government will have to do he framed it in the sense of we have to do these things we had no choice we won't shy away and it's only because of the administration before and their mismanagement he described uh that we have to do it those who've been following politics for a long time Karen may remember a similar message in 2010 when the coalition government took over David Cameron and George Osborne constantly saying that they'd be left such a mess that they were going to have to do some really difficult things and arguing don't blame us blame the last slot and that's exactly what Kier starmer's doing pointing out or rolling the pitch as as we call it in Westminster for difficult decisions potentially painful decisions we don't know exactly what that's going to look like in terms of public spending it could mean some more squeezes on departmental budgets it could mean some of the taxes that the government's not ruled out putting up are increased in the budget but what kir ster is trying to do is say well we've got no choice because of the mess that we were left some of that I think is understandable it's pretty clear that there were some things that the government didn't know about during the general election be that how much money had been budgeted for public Ser public sector pay Rises be that some of the decisions that were being made in the home office it does seem that some of that stuff was genuinely new but when you hear Kier starmer saying it's painful and it's difficult and it's the fault of the last lot do remember that the broad picture on the economy was known about that not all of this stuff was a surprise and that Kier starmer and his team and the chancellor have known about that for sometime so the big question I think we're going to be asking over the next few weeks is what does that pain look like who feels that pain is it spending is it tax Rises the answer to that second part seems to be probably in some point in some places anyway so what does it all look like and I think a lot of people will will ask the question that my colleague Vicky young asked in there which was how much of this did Kier starmer know during the general election campaign and was he completely honest with the public about what was coming Nick thank you for the moment Nick erley there in Downing Street waiting patiently as well to talk to us is the Observer newspapers political editor Toby Helm Toby thank you so much for your patience good to see you uh what was the Prime Minister trying to do here and did he succeed well he's obviously as Nick was saying trying to prepare the way for some really tough decisions that they know they're going to have to make in the budget um and he he wants to be able to portray his own government this labor government that's completely different in style and approach to the Tory premierships that went before particularly those of Boris Johnson and Liz truss so he wants to show demonstrate indicate that he's somebody who's not going to promise big and fail to deliver like Johnson did in many respects and Liz trusted nor is he going to sort of throw money around with like confetti with tax cuts like trusted and put the E economy at risk but he believes that benefit will only come through pain so it's a message about the nature of leadership if you like um he knows that there is this black hole as he puts it in the finances they have promised to deliver huge growth by the end of their first ter to create an economy which is the biggest in the G7 by the the end of their first term it's a massive promise so they've now got to get ready to pull the levers they have to pull in order to do that now I thought what was interesting Nick mentioned that the broad those with the broadest shoulders would um have to bear the heaviest burden that's what K dama said but he also then went on to talk about big asks from ordinary working people now as Nick rightly said and others asked in that press conference what does that mean where's is that going to bite because they've ruled out income tax increases they've ruled out vat they've ruled out National Insurance so where is the pain on ordinary people going to come unless this is a softening up exercise and then they don't do much for to hit ordinary working people it's a big question that's the big question that will dominate what did you make of the language I mean we heard the word rot countless times I mean his language was incredibly strong in terms of how he described the state of the country when labor took over yeah I mean I think it's it's all very striking this is a really interesting politics and B it's a big moment um if you look at Kama speeches with no disrespect as they sometimes say before the election they were not particularly interesting they were sort of riddled with caution now you're seeing him take the gloves off and you know everything is a sort of Thunderbolt um I thought on that I thought there was a kind of wartime sort of echo in some of what he said about we can get through this together as if we're you know just in the middle of a shock pandemic the reality is the economy yes there is a hole in the finances but the economy is kind of probably on the up I think while I understand this and while I think starma Did It Well by and large I think there's a slight danger for them they'll be aware of this of overdoing this stuff and people saying oh well you just always say that you just say it's all awful when we know it is isn't that awful and you just blame them all the time at some point they've got to get real and back off a bit from that blaming others and just become the government that accepts the problem not always looking back otherwise they start to lack credibility I think so what you're saying is that at a certain point the responsibility for whatever events happen he mentioned the riots which happened while Labor's in government but he still blamed the conservatives for that in a certain amount of time will have to move forward taking responsibility for whatever happens on their watch yeah I just think we've we've kind of had this show now and I think people will weary of it if it goes on much longer I think today was fine today was laying the ground for something that will be quite tough in the budget when Rachel Reed does it at the end of October but I think I don't think they can afford to play this trick too much more on this scale um otherwise people might begin to turn away and think that's just what you do I wonder what you make of the timing of this speech the timing is interesting and the location is interesting as as K dmer actually pointed out and made it very clear what comparisons he wanted to draw yeah it's all interesting I mean doing it in the Rose Garden and in uh Downing Street is what you do at times of you know when you've got something big to say when you're setting the ground for a big announcement and this is a big um setting of the stage setting out of the stage it's a week or so before Parliament returns he's got issues swirling around him uh regarding winter fuel payments regarding uh child poverty he's got the TU meeting the unions will want their pound of Flesh having been very quiet before the election um the labor the left of the labor party will be thinking gosh what's the what's the point of being in power if we're just going to be on austerity government this is all coming to a head now in the coming weeks so he feels he's got to get out there and make his argument I think I think there's also a point actually about you know the the battle for labor and the battle in politics over the coming months will be about the future of Reform UK and how well they do and he's addressing the speech to working people um he wants to bring working people on side and stop them drifting to this new outfit that could threaten both the conservatives but also to an extent labor so he's talking to that audience as well um the timing is obviously as as MPS come back as the conference ahead of the conference season opening he's getting in ahead making his arguments and making clear where he stands but it's about tough leadership it's about redefining the nature of leadership as well and Toby also very clearly saying you remember what happened in the Rose Garden where I am now setting out all these very responsible in his words measures uh when the previous administrations had parties during lockdown here yeah very good point again it's leadership isn't it it's about I'm the one who you know they are the ones who partied in Downing street they're the ones who were frivolous they're the ones who promised big and failed to deliver they're the ones who were irresponsible with the LI trust mini budget here am I I'm just telling you at straight I'm the I'm the slightly mean unpleasant Headmaster but I'm the Headmaster who you'll grow to respect over time because I will deliver a better school if you like to make that analogy it's that kind of thinking again redefining leadership as responsible and difficult and about taking difficult decision I wonder what you think the push back will be the reaction will be to what we've just heard because we've got a few weeks to go until the budget on October the 30th and uh obviously we know about the conservatives reaction to that 22 billion pound black hole figure that they were apoplectic to hear that the chance the former Chancellor uh taking issue and this becoming a real bone of contention yes and uh the Prime Minister referred to this review by the office for Budget responsibility into that I mean I think you can argue um about figures till the cows come home but what the OB says I think will be quite important on that um the labor government would not be doing this would not be making as much of that figure if they didn't believe that they could defend that accusation quite well and they're just doing as I think numerous people have pointed out you know they're just making the very very most of of the argument in the same way that um the Tories did after Labor when Liam burn left a note on the two Secret's desk saying there's no money left they'll they'll they'll get squeeze all the political capital they can out this um but and they don't they don't want to make mistakes on this so they're very careful about that figure actually I've had numerous calls from people pointing out you know Toby uh thank you so much it was been good to talk to you The Observers political editor Toby Helm taking us through uh his thoughts after that speech by sakir stama