Vivek Ramaswamy and Matt Taibbi - When the Left Abandoned Free Speech

so it's frustrating for me so I I I grew up kind of you know I was a lifelong Democrat um I gave to the ACLU my whole life uh everybody I I don't I didn't really know conservatives growing up I grew up in Boston you know I'm one of those uh what did your parents do uh my father was also a reporter my mother was a lawyer um and so uh but you know Free Speech was everything uh you know on the left once upon a time and think about all the pop culture stuff you know people versus Larry Flint the na Thorp Story I mean every single you know sort of political thriller you know the villain was a speech supressing Republican uh and you know the hero was was the civil liberties lawyer um right right uh you know fresh out of college and and all that and somewhere between like the bush years and now all the people who had had those beliefs completely flipped they they changed their attitude towards the First Amendment like people would have done anything to protect it I feel like 20 30 years ago and that's all gone now you see it's it's been kind of amazing and and uh heartening for me to see that you know conservatives are up in arms about threats to the Bill of Rights yeah and you know I'm glad they are they they need to be if they if they weren't um you know I think the situation would be so much worse right now I think my Testament I mean speaking as some you know right of Center you know myself r republican candidate for president Republican whatever that label means uh you know I think I would say that the left's abandonment of its interest in free speech protection is far more pronounced than the conservative Embrace of it okay which I think is is that's interesting it's just like a net loss for the country it's like it's not it's not like it's not like a flip flop you have one flip for sure it's been a decided flip like I think that the commitment to free speech is no longer a Democrat or liberal or Progressive value in America to the contrary if you had to pick what the progressive value is it is the protectionist Instinct information protectionist instinct to the public to say that too much free speech is actually going to be dangerous I think that is a committed now left-wing position where the committed left-wing principal position used to be free exchange of ideas I think on the conservative side I think you've seen part of this is like okay well if they're doing that then you know it's a reactionary response second is conservatives it so happens in the latest iteration of it study history there hasn't always been this way but the latest iteration have been the victims of it so then there's a reactionary response there too but I think it is an open question if I'm being you know kind of calling it straight from where I see it of what the modern conservative movement's actual push come to shove level of commitment to True Free Speech actually is I am on the right as a uh I would say Unapologetic unrestrained advocate for making this part of the Republican party's vision and and platform not just the Republican party but the modern conservative movement but I think it is an open question right how how committed they are so I think it's just a dead weight loss where the left is abandoned it and the right has not totally embraced it but it's partially embraced it which I'm glad about and I do think it's heartening but I just think that an honest appraisal of where we are I think that's what it is so it's interesting that you say that because there is a Schism right we just saw uh you know Mike Johnson pass the you know the FIS enhancements bill which is something that you know thank you for calling it The enhancements it's not a it's not a reauthorization it was an expansion that's what it was right right yeah exactly and um you know a lot of the speech Free Speech folks were very upset about that s included uh uh and I I agree with you I think you know the There's an opportunity here not just like a moral uh duty but an opportunity politically for the Republicans to own this issue um you know to be champions of something that's always been popular in America Americans you know this is a core value of what of this country um one of the reasons that uh we never had this happen before is because Republicans and Democrats people just didn't like you know meddling with the basics of the first amendment that just was politically not terribly possible POS right it's part of who you are it's your identity right so you're just you know all the other stuff just doesn't matter if you don't have a First Amendment left right yes and and I think it's very much part of the American character we're an outspoken people we don't like to be told what to do what to think we're weird we're weird I'll get to that in a second we Americans are weird right all of us that's who we are weird that's right we we like that so yeah and conversely the other thing um it's just not in our tradition and you know the bulk of people are not going to be for it because the idea of having a Vanguard class that decides what you know what you can and cannot see what what you're smart enough or able enough to handle like it's so insulting uh to the bulk of people I I think getting on the other side of that only makes political sense yeah it makes political sense I I think I think it does but I just think it makes like normative sense like it's who we are right so so this no one's defending this like we have to defend the essence of what this country is it's in the First Amendment for reason you get to say anything I say anything means you get to express any opinion right I can't sell you you know a medicine bottle and say it's not poison when it is or you know whatever you can't commercial fraud is not the expression of an opinion or the issuance of a physical threat is not an opinion but the expression of an opinion any opinion goes which though if we're really prepared to if you will swallow that pill I think you know burning the flag is protected speech right you know I think you the campus protests even standing up for heinous views of of Hamas or whoever you know if you're expressing that opinion you're not free to commit violence you're not free to physically obstruct people from going to classrooms but the expression of the opinion is is kind of if it doesn't feel unfortunate at times you're not doing it right it is protected speech and so I do think that that is a that is a question where I think conservatives are really grappling with where we land and I'm not sure that it's going to be unified necessarily I think that we live in a moment where there are sort of weird alliances even if we're willing unwilling to admit that in the open between people who may think they're on the left or on the right on some of these questions relating to you know from from foreign interventionist policy to the domestic surveillance State I think those are probably some of the biggest areas for some realignments that I think are still very much in process actually mean don't you think that that traditional ideas of left and right are kind of meaningless now right now they're meaningless it does feel pretty meaningless right now I feel like it's going to land in a new equilibrium but we're not at all in like a stable equilibrium right now I think we're in a moment of of real shift actually real movement and I think it's fascinating it's an exciting time to be you know a an observer and and you know participant if I may say I guess in in this u i find it just it's more interesting that way rather than once it's sort of stett settled partly it's scary a little bit but but it's also interesting I mean like if you're an anti-war advocate now which party do you support I mean I it's confusing right I mean if either right or or or or maybe you can be a force for change within either too I think and i' same if you're true civil libertarian right now that is undoubtedly I think more of a Liber more of a more of a republican view or more of a home in the Republican party but that itself is a real I mean even in the Republican primary some of the people I'm running against was running against at the time was a real source of of ideological division even within a party and I think that that makes it just an interesting time to be in American politics actually of course absolutely of course it makes you a pretty weird guy for raising that when to come back to that