Tom Girardi Found Guilty of Embezzling!! Attorney Ronald Richards Weighs In!

[Applause] [Music] folks welcome back to so bad it's good presented by betes media today we have a guest I'm so happy to talk to him it's been a minute since I've talked to him before you might know him as a defense and civil litigation attorney but he has made so many national media appearances he is a legal expert commentator but also has some personal investment in the Erica Jane Tom gerardi all of this business that's been going on for years and years oh and today we actually had uh breaking news that Tom gerardi was found guilty of wire fraud on four separate counts so here to make heads or Tales of this we have Mr Ronald Richards back with us welcome back to the show hey Ryan what's happening I I mean listen I don't know what's happening it feels like too much is happening after a 12 or 13 days trial the jury it seemed like they barely deliberated but they came back with guilty on all four counts of wire fraud is is that correct ye yes I mean they didn't need to deliberate that much because they they they spent yesterday deliberating and um there's an old expression that was coined by Leslie Abramson who is the Menendez uh Brothers lawyers um the road to state prison is paved with defendants testifying it's still a great um expression but I could tell you that um him getting on the stand must have been some suicide mission that his public defender could not control him because he probably said he wants to testify and he thought maybe he would sound so kooky that the jurors would believe the dementia align huge mistake stupid as hell uh I feel bad for the public defender because he you know if the client wants to testify you have no discretion you have to let him testify but the problem then is the jury found him to be a liar by the verdict and he has no way of winning the case now on appeal zero chance oh wow I didn't even think about that and now they're not going to sentence I guess sentencing is in December now they're saying he could get upwards of 20 years in prison and this is where I get confused is what h i mean he's 85 years old he there does seem to be something wrong with him deeply wrong I don't know how much it is an act and how much of it isn't what do you predict in terms of sentencing and will he see jail time well he's going to see jail time uh for sure but the question really is um how much jail time do you want to give an 85y old that is obviously suffering um from mental illness I mean at sentencing all of this becomes relevant his dementia um because what what the issue was at the time of the fraud he had capacity you know much better capacity but the judge has to now look at that there's some compassionate issues here he is very old he obviously is suffering from a mental Decline and you know a fiveyear sentence is a long time for an 85y old but I mean look mid off is gonna die in prison or died maybe he died he died yeah so a gerardi is going to maybe die in prison too and by the way they don't want to put him in prison yet because he has a case in Chicago still so there's no what I read yeah there's no point in I mean well I it's a sad State of Affairs a little bit but not really because he um you know he he he was responsible for all the client money I mean what people don't understand is like a drug problem or you start to lose it problem or you have too many creditor problems is never an excuse to invade the trust account you know I mean that and sometimes you just get convicted because who else is responsible but you so I mean that doesn't mean he has to have perfect capacity to get convicted he had enough to know he wanted to take the witness in and that was a stupid idea because there's no question some of his testimony was kind of good for him until he started getting you know pulverized on Cross now is that just like the ego the ego of a man that had done it so long and had been so successful is that what that is just like that last bit of ego going up there and thinking that he can make it right in this case since I've spoken to him on the phone before Erica's Depot and I oh I remember that oh wow I don't think so I mean if you want me to be honest with the viewers I just think it's a man that is on the mental Decline and he probably was like wait a second I didn't steal this money you know and I didn't mean to steal it but I probably did steal it he probably just got up and figure I'll just charm the jury because he did it all his career but this is not a civil case it's not a personal injury case and he's the defendant not the plain's counsel so he should have just shut up and try to create Reasonable Doubt but he didn't and that's the problem for Mr gerardi on this case is that you know he it was literally like one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in criminal defense history for him to testify in a dementia case where he's then going to show the jury that he's not totally out of it he should have just been sitting there drooling that's what I would have done if I was his private counselor I would say just sit there and go like this I had a client once with a tick and no one ever said he had a tick and during closing argument he was twitching and going crazy and the juror said how could nobody see that tick of course he's innocent he's so identif he was twitching ticking and you know he got to not we got to knock guilty because I told him you're not testifying for sure I mean that's the thing you're already Presumed Innocent the jurors aren't allowed to discuss it you don't need to get up on the stand and say I didn't do it only in like a sex crime case whereas he said she said is it almost mandatory but not in a case like this so uh the Los Angeles Times says this was uh for like a period of 10 years from 2010 onwards and I think they said upwards of $15 million but then I was confused because didn't he actually deposit $25 million into EJ Global and that's where Erica had gotten involved no where they showed EJ Global was to kind of dirty him up to show that in my lawsuit that I filed for the trustee um we were we're they use the exact same evidence basically the firm transferred 25 million of value to EJ Global to pay Erica's expenses and so he's trying to show this guy's a joke he knew all this time he's paying his wife's Service Company for her dancing and singing and acting with client money and you know it's a huge number and who does that because it was such a big number what guy spends $25 million from his Law Firm on his wife's acting company I mean I'm just telling you that is an unusual fact and ultimately it will bury Erica that she will never be able to justify receiving 25 million and for the 10,000th time because someone's going to say this it doesn't matter what was in her head it matters did she receive the money for no consideration what did she give the the law firm for $25 million the answer is zero zero wow now but this case wasn't about Erica obviously but it is interesting because there are still so many little loose ends with Erica I mean the last time I talked to you years ago it was still over the diamond earrings I mean the diamond earrings were involved and now we have something in regards to the American Express bill in terms of the two costumers that has are is moving forward so Erica still has a lot of cases that are open against her does this case here does this conviction do anything to Erica at all or does it kind of put a shiver up her spine knowing that she is potentially going to pay for this as well the convi the conviction is important uh from from Erica's perspective because the 25 million was mentioned in the criminal trial and it's front and center and and at the end of this week the trustee has to file I not the trustee Erica's lawyers have to file their response to the trustees motion um on the ear ings the earrings are going to be front and center very soon all over again where they they were able to show in their supplemental papers that the money for the earrings was was so inextricably mixed up and comingled in the trust account that Erica can't prove that the money uh was not from clients and so the trustee is is going to argue and did argue with evidence that the money for the earrings is property of the State and so EV so Erica is going to have to now file a response as to why that money was not property of the estate so I don't want to bore the viewers with the intricacies of no I mean this isn't boring this is this is kind of fascinating I just always wonder who's paying for all of this because legal uh legal representation is not cheap I cannot imagine Amica has a True Believer a benefactor that believes that the whole bankruptcy uh was a sham in fact he even liked my post on Instagram today he's right on there uh and he believed that you know he likes he wants to expose everything for a fraudulent bankruptcy and he uh is a smart guy that has a lot of money and he's paying for it and that's just how it is she's lucky that he's around you know you know this benefactor and he knows you of course I've talked to him many many times and of course I know him are we allowed to have the benefactor name or is that off off off well you know I he's out there he's easy to find believe me I I'll let you find him it's not I'm going to go to your I'm going to go to your Instagram post after we talk and just go through everybody but that's really interesting he's not hard to find but I rather I don't want to get on his bad side um I I you know because in in the case I had with um with some of the lawyers that that lost money with Tom there was a there was a there was a couple rulings where we agree not to publish the benefactor Bank information so publicly I always say just look on on the internet and then I'm not involved you know you're doing your own research but it's easy to find there's been to many articles papers he's you know pictures of him walking with her you know it's so easy to find he's a lawyer but I'm not gonna out him let someone let you do the research but again I like the guy he has his own View and he's been paying for this for years and that's why Erica has a great D Andy I've told everybody and why I'm glad I'm not dealing with this is she's never going to settle as long as someone's paying top dollar for all legal fees what's her incentive to settle nothing yeah well I want to say I like this guy too so leave me alone this guy if you're listening or I'm not gonna I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get involved with him except I do love talking to him and I keep saying send me the info so I can analyze it and publicly comment on it and so he he said it takes a while to put it all together but there's no issues with him and you know it is what it is now they had a lot of the victims at the trial speak and and this is what it's all about is the victims now we're going to potentially see jail time for Tom gerardi but in terms of restitution where are we at with the victims and all of these funds that were misappropriated mean they're going to issue a restitution order they're going to post it on the wall he has nothing that's nothing Social Security nothing everything's gone no there's no it's a waste of time going after him the only pocket left is Erica so even things like the earrings where did we wind up with the earrings and would that money go directly to the victims how does that all it would go to the estate the by the way the money already went to the estate Ryan if Erica gets It reversed um you know uh Erica would love to have the buyer give her back the earrings so she can wear them but I I don't think the buyer is going to do that that's just my my if I had to bet I would say that's never GNA happen unless the United States Supreme Court denies cers Shari that buyer will never give back those earrings off her ears secondly Erica would the state would have to give back the money that was sold from the the buyer proceeds and I don't think the estate's going to do that until the United States Supreme Court denies s Shari so I don't think when I see that the joke is itd have to appeal all the way up there to the highest court in lamb before anybody does anything but Erica's you know she wants to get uh value for those earrings and have the estate actually pay her for the earrings that's what's going on now I mean this is all such a sad end to a sad story but I also think in terms of like the California like the bar association they had proven that they were like involved in this in some ways is there any kind of after effects that will be like put into place now in terms of misappropriation and client funds like is there anything we're we're gonna send Tom gerardy away but is the the greater purpose of this is to like put some laws on the book so this doesn't the bar did made it you know not even worth having a trust account like you know you have to do a reporting it's so much paperwork it's not even worth it almost every case I ever have the rare ones I have a settlement I say send the check to the client I don't even want the money going into my office anymore just because of all the reporting just send it to the client I charge the client and say send it to the client like it it's very rare now that there's any you know reporting anymore well I mean first off why did you get into law in the first place and do you still have the same love for it because it seems like just such a tangled web every time I've talk to you I get nervous because it just seems like such intensity that you have to deal with and all lawyers have to deal with I mean I got into law you know um because I wasn't good in business school at the time I couldn't pass calculus but now I then I went back to business school they wav the requirement so I guess if they didn't have a calculus requirement in 1994 I would have went to business school but I would say that you know I like criminal defense I got a lot of practice on you know when I started practicing marijuana was a felony if you could believe it now it's legal and people used to go to jail for fraking dope so yeah I I had a lot of fun beating up police on um different things where they overextended on marijuana cases and you know individual liberties and then finally the Republicans Champion legalization so then it became okay I always tell everyone if Republicans are pro drugs then it's all goes away you have to get them focus on things and then once there's a money machine everything is legal I mean that's why I'm laughing with ketamin you know and Matthew Perry not of course oh ketamine yeah that that's a big thing on the books that was one of my first early cases I represented Vidal sassoon's daughter uh you know and I I represented her she was charged with delivering ketaman and it we had a weird law in California it wasn't a misdem me it was only a felony and so I ended up you know having to deal with a felony case of one of the wealthiest families in LA and you know they tried to charge her with distribution I kept saying no she uses it she's not distri she can buy four containers of it so I'm just saying but dope and fortun California has become you know we're not throwing people away forever now where before used to be ridiculous so and that's why I got into it to answer your question is I like the challenge and that I was on the UCLA debate team and I liked you know helping people but then I got tired of dealing with criminals it was just too much and all their Shenanigans and I hate fraud cases I don't like fraudsters so I felt like my heart wasn't into it you I couldn't defend frauders um as well as I should have because I felt like you know that I would see the victims of these cases and it made so then I went over to to basically suing fraudsters made me feel better because I you know because I could get money for victims yeah I really don't like defending frauders just because I I see the damage they cause people so that's why I stopped doing that I don't do animal cases or environmental crimes either because I I won't be tenacious so you don't want me as your lawyer if you pollute the Earth or kill or hurt dogs and cats forget it I'm not going to represent you um Mr gerardi I mean you know obviously when when taking the stand and thinking you can control a narrative and all of this but one of the things that they knocked him on and especially the jury came back and said it was easy to confict and also they pointed out the fact that he would kind of guilt his clients of like be nice to me he would always say come on be nice to me be nice to me and that really offended the jurors from the Los Angeles Times uh article I read and I thought that was so interesting is that he would take business in law and then personalize it and you know use himself and like try to present himself as a victim and be nice to me is that normal for a lawyer no and what else he would do that was reprehensible is he would say the mediator said you can't have your money yet because I need to invest it he would do conflicted transactions I mean no gerardi lost his me moral compass long before he lost his marbles that's what I can tell you I always want to know what I mean I saw the symptoms I started you know when I started targeting him like I did Michael avanatti you start seeing civil suits against lawyers for that lawyers would never do like what do you mean dist like the minute you hear a lawyer didn't issue a check from the trust account you know right away something's wrong like that not your money it's like me taking going into your bank account and taking your money it's not your money that's if someone put a gun to my head I would not take money out out of the trust account it's not my money I would take money out of my account he used the excuse that he was like doing that for their benefit I don't want I don't want to give you all the money because you're gonna blow it somewhere and then he was blowing he was blowing it somewhere yeah um for a while with the Bravo audience which I really speak to a lot of is that you know you were really kind of entangled there was almost this kind of battle if we were perceiving this battle between you and Erica Jane at a certain point was this a great white whale for you or was this just like another was this just like another Monday back in the day when you were really kind of going after all of this stuff well it was part of a litigation strategy um but then uh and I was almost about to break her but then um you know there was there was other lawyers that were suing her and I was trying not to get her distracted and then you know we started having tension about who's going to sue her first and then the trustee was way too hyper sensitive about any little bad press which I get you know because it's a government position but it made me realize that you know three years later we're not going to be even close to getting the money or a trial date and I'm on a contingency so I have to say sayara like it's still a business like I'm not going to donate three years of my life because you won't let me use my normal pressure tactics and Erica the constant pounding and public statements was getting to her where I knew I could break her and settle the case but then I got the rug pulled out for me you know telling me I can't do this I gotta slow down I'm like no no no the only thing this woman cares about is her brand if you keep it quiet she's just going to Forever delay delay delay and now of course we're here three years later and where are we nowhere no trial date nothing this thing is not going to go to trial until 2026 well I mean in a way you got years she'll have delayed this but see it worked and by the because last season of Beverly Hills when she was on it this wasn't a storyline anymore she's been able to go on her way kind of build herself back up and now she's almost kind of considered like a folk hero like people were like oh she had a really good season maybe it was all Tom gerardi so that's interesting to think she still at some point will have to answer for this money and Tom's answering right now is there anybody else like gerardi ke is no longer but is a real company that was just a DBA yeah you have Chris Cayman and David lra there Chris has indicted in the same case they got severed and David L is indied with gerardi in Chicago yeah because that's a Boeing one where they didn't pay out the money that Boeing paid them to the victims so I'm really curious so he potentially is gonna get 20 years for this and then whatever happens in Chicago which I would imagine he would be guilty for as well and then I just really don't know the logistics of an 85-year-old man even putting them in pris of how that even works because that would cost the taxpayer even more I would imagine for the Specialized Care he will need well yeah and and you know that there is a provision that you can get someone out of prison on compassionate use or compassionate uh discharge uh you know because they're too old I mean that but I mean look that doesn't mean you don't convict them that doesn't mean that there's not victims that doesn't mean they have to get it out I mean people lost a lot of money because of him you know but uh a lot of these people did get money back from the estate rug has got a lot of money back uh from the estate you know so money it's not everybody's a victim here with no remedy but the the real you know Erica has to Pony up and give back some of that 25 million so I'm not upset that she's made money on the show but she's never gonna do it you know she's just GNA delay delay delay unless she becomes the target of bad press other than that you know she won't do anything and and I and by the way my S my successor we get along really well he sends me documents we discuss the case because I have a lean on the case so I I have a financial interest in him getting as much money as possible so I'm I'm willing to try the case with him help him on whatever he needs but we have different styles you know and and I understood the social media aspect but it was all part of the litigation strategy it was not you know I I have 80 files that was just one that had a lot of you know this is this is how I could push her button other I have each defendant is different and Erica that's why I pushed her buttons sometimes I serve assignment orders on your business relationships subpoenas I I I sue people you give money to I there's other pressure points Erica's best pressure point is attack the brand keep pushing the button but you know I I got my you know eventually my theatric is not good for a conservative bankruptcy board and I don't I mean he tried to disqual she tried to disqualify me twice saying I talk too much about it and the judge wrote a 30 page opinion saying it's never going to happen she appealed and then dismissed the appeal well if I remember correctly you guys were slinging barbs like she was getting personal in terms of like family things like that yeah she went after my wife on Instagram I didn't want to say that yeah it was like really it was like wow I couldn't believe that so I guess in a way it's hurtful it's all there's if I saw in the street I'd give her a hug there's no issue no one mad about it's all acting this you would give her a hug if you saw her in the street and she a hug my God okay I see and she would probably give you a hug back like that's well I wouldn't I wouldn't mean like a real hug I'm just saying if I saw her and she said hey that was funny all those years I wouldn't be like you know negative why who cares it's a lawsuit it's about money I'm not I'm not indicting her I'm suing her so again you know I wanted her to just pay voluntarily that's why for a little period we haded to taunt because you get more you get more things with honey than with vinegar I mean that like you don't need I already showed her I could be mean Ronald I wanted to be nice Ronald so even when you personalize something that's a strategy more than something designed to her because it's why am i g to get mad at someone I've only deposed other than that I have no relationship with her I'm not mad I'm trying to get her to pay any know maybe maybe you love maybe you love real housewi at Beverly Hills and you don't like how she treats Sutton maybe it's personal for you that's it's actually not the earrings were personal but that was such a one of the great I mean I knew she was devastated when she couldn't get her earrings back and all the buyers she had show up were out bid by that buyer so I'm just letting you know that part was enough I mean after that there was nothing to talk about seriously the earrings was the greatest coup I mean that was insane that God that was like three years ago two three years ago anyways the final thing I wanted is just for the audience you mentioned at the very beginning is that you did have a conversation with Tom gerardi years ago I for forgot how many years can you refresh the audience's memory that might not have heard you the first time what that was because that always blew me away and I have it posted online you know they say I got a call on my cell phone and it said Tom gerardi like in my off the service transfer I'm like this is the night before Erica's Depot and he says the beat goes on and I'm like Mr gerardi he's like yeah he's like so you know Erica had nothing to do with this and I said okay well that's I were deposing her and I had a whole long conversation and then I got out my phone and taped it because I was out of state so it's perfectly legal and I taped the whole call and uh you know I'm s and so basically I knew right then he wasn't as out of it as everyone was saying because why is he calling me how would he even know to call me that's pretty because this this was after he was in an assisted living facility he called me from the Assisted Living exactly that's but I didn't get involved in his criminal case I could have given that information to the government but no one asked so involve I didn't ingest myself to push the scale and I figured they convict him but I mean I could have given them that would have been a devastating phone call because it was way way after he claimed dementia there was already a probate order but I W I felt like that wasn't my role is to get push the scale they're smart enough to find me if they wanted to and I would have given it to but no one ever asked um you can find out way more about uh Mr Richards at Ronald richards.com I'll put all his social as well which by the way doesn't seem like you tweet as much as you used to I just I saw your Tweet today and that's what reminded I was like oh I'm gonna email Ronald I I mean it's Ronald Richards on Twitter and attorney Ronald Richard on Instagram here here's the thing I do tweet when there's something interesting but I feel like I don't want to over tweet so like I'm going to Tweet the I tweeted the trustees supplemental response I'm G to tweet Erica's response but I don't want to tweet just for the sake of tweeting because I have sort of sophisticated viewers and I don't want to to blow up their page with a bunch of random tweets I've tweeted sometimes on you know Middle East I put up trumps indictment today I mean I do put up stuff when it's important on stuff that I could talk about but I'm not just going to Tweet like hey I don't like uh what Camala Harris said uh this afternoon like I don't just put up stream of conscious tweets I like document tweets you're not like this is this is a great steak I really love food like nothing like that exactly I don't do that so when there's something going on believe me I tweet about it but like I you know that tweet I did today I let me just tell you it's funny you said that the the tweet I did today uh got 20 it's already got um 43,000 uh uh yeah which is a lot for a normal tweet of mine and so yes if it's important I put up the Tweet um but I don't want to over tweet because because it is I'm not a tweeter like my page is for lawyers and like yeah people that are interested in Housewives and I feel they respect the fact that every six seconds I'm not tweeting about something so when I tweet I want them to read it and so that's why I don't over but no the reason why I haven't tweeted as much to get back to your question succinctly is there wasn't a lot in the case for six months the the expert for the for the uh trustee had covid a back problem and so there wasn't a lot of litigation action and then Gerard's criminal case I tweeted a couple things on that and then we had the conviction today and and of course there there's stuff I'll tweet about but the civil cases is what I follow but a lot of that slowed down because this stupid thing with the earrings and who whether it's property of the state has slowed that case to a screeching H but now I think it's going to prop back up because the judge will rule in September and then hopefully my successor will go back to the $25 million case and end this already because that's really the case we got to go to trial that is the big case well the wheels of Justice move very slow but uh finally in your opinion the Justice was served was there anything that surprised you or do you think this is exactly what you had expected and the best case for justice with this conviction well I thought that it was the best case for justice because I don't believe that gerardi was criminally innocent so I think they got the right decision however I think that it's unfortunate that his illness caused him to not not follow his lawyer's advice and not testify it would have made the CL the case closer because how is he going to help himself is a lawyer juries you know hold lawyers to really high standards or they hate lawyers you know both they probably hate them and hold them to a high standard so I'm thinking how is he helping so he's better just to sit there and do this and shake and do all the things you would all your stereotypes about a dementia person he should have drooled had a little bib wet his pants do whatever he's got got to do to have dementia symptoms you know what I mean not look good Shake in there every day that would I don't know why he broke the strategy of his trial except you know he just couldn't contain himself there was times he told the the prosecutor to f off in the case yeah I saw that pre trials so that didn't help him either I mean again no client control client control two things will put you will make you lose a case very quickly a bad lawyer that doesn't have good client control so if you can't control your client to to to to do the things that that will give you the best chance of winning and the client thinks they know best most of the time that's going to be a bad outcome for the client because they don't understand the game they playing they're not in this is not their profession and I think people have to appreciate you know trial lawyers um a little better yeah and this was just a a public defender assigned to him right this wasn't team of public defenders but they're good the public defenders are good yeah well uh this is a sad end I guess we still have a little bit more to go but this is this is what it all comes down to and Erica Jane was not there once we didn't expect her to be but you know uh who knows if they are still in any sort of contact but I would imagine not so um Mr Ronald Richards thank you so much I I really married to him Ryan I mean it's yeah well because well that's all tied up because of the bankruptsy right they can't get no she doesn't want to get divorced she just let the case sit there because she doesn't want to have to pay spousal support she'd have to pay him big spousal support now oh wow I didn't even think about that and he's too stupid and in has too much incapacity to activate his divorce I mean if he had any Guardian really watching out for him they would make a motion for support because Erica clearly has the ability to support him but she's not yeah I mean she he supported her all these years now she can support him but I guess that's not what's gonna happen how the tables will turn but for some reason no one's doing that I don't know why maybe I'll call his office and take it on a pro bono for him so he can get a spousal support order that's what he really needs god well if if law doesn't work out for you you could you could be the next on Rickles I think you could roast somebody pretty good so it's always been it's always been a pleasure to talk to you thank you for taking the time with us today man I'm glad you're doing well Ryan I've watched your meteoric rise and I'm very proud of you and glad that you still me on thank you tell your family I said hi okay thank you e [Music] [Music] [Music]