IR Archive 1984 | Idaho Reports: Owyhee Wilderness, 110,000 Acres BLM | September 5, 1984

funding for Idaho reports is provided by the friends of 4 10 and 12 The Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by a grant from the Laura Moore Cunningham Foundation if you got money enough if you're a millionaire if you can afford to fly and be packed in for5 or $6,000 a week then you can afford to use that wilderness all Wilderness is for is for the big money people that can fly in get what they want pay for it and get out tonight as hearings continue on the Bureau of Land Management's Wilderness proposals in aahi County we'll hear the arguments for and against Wilderness designation on Southern Idaho's High Desert [Music] good evening the Bureau of Land Management is holding another hearing in boisee tonight on one more controversial Idaho Wilderness proposal but this time the Wilderness fight is not over some primitive Forest land but over a rugged area in aahi county in extreme Southwestern Idaho the BLM has proposed Wilderness designation for over 110,000 acres in aah County land located 60 to 100 Mil south of boisei it's an area that BLM proposes to call the Jack Creek Wilderness this is high desert country prized for years by Cattleman and by environmentalists it's an area of deep canyons and Sagebrush grasslands it is home to a rare herd of big horn sheep but as a hearing on the Wilderness proposal last night in aahi County made clear it is also an area where Cattlemen appear ready to make a major stand against no Wilderness designation at all last night about a dozen people most of them ranchers and all of them opposed to the blm's proposed Wilderness plan testified at a hearing here in Grandville several reoccurring themes throughout their testimony including the need to close some existing roads and a question of who would profit if part of the aahi were classified as Wilderness I think as far as your figures of who is going to make money on this and all this extra money that's coming into wahi County uh I think possibly the BLM people might uh have more people working at out there but there isn't going to be any awaii County people that are here right now that I believe that'll really benefit from it um Wilderness kind of hits a sour note with me anyway because of the what's happened on the Salmon River we now have Wayne Newton owning a heck of a big Ranch private condominiums on the Salmon River in supposedly our Wilderness areas so it it doesn't make much sense we must ask how these areas could even be designated as Wilderness study areas if road closures are necessary to facilitate their management as Wilderness we must also ask why 1,30 Acres of federal land in the tiger Springs area of the little Jack Wilderness study area is included as Wilderness in the proposed action when it did not meet the criteria required to be become a part of the previously designated study area these inconsistencies cast doubt on the Integrity of the entire initial review process a Bruno man argued that when the government takes control of an area the area deteriorates he noted that's what's happened to the town of Bruno America just can't afford these nonproductive programs we can't afford those pamphlets that are this thick we can't afford def fense the range the fire policies in this area are are scandalous spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight fires um if you talk to some of the senior citizens in this area that uh even in the beginning of their lifetime before BLM came in here there were never any fires in this area and that's when the Reigns was utilized [Music] um it's always amazing to me during hunting season people come and want to hunt on my farm I say you own 90% of the ground around my farm why don't you hunt there and their answer is there is no game there is no birds out there they're on private land so summary I would say if you would redraft your your study and give this area a chance to prosper again and another man Even took exception to the blm's name for the proposed Wilderness Area you call this Jack Crick and it isn't Jack Crick it's Jack Crick I don't see how you can make an impact statement and not even get the name right a grand view resident whose father is partially disabled said that his father and young Sons would be unable to appreciate the area if it were designated Wilderness so I am concerned about the elderly people and and also the uh people with disabilities how are these people going to enjoy the area that they have in the past or those that have always been disabled how are they going to see this area I have two young children we function as a family on outings and and work and other things that we do and it's going to be pretty difficult for me to convince my young son that all we got to walk is another five miles and it's only 90° out there and finally this testimony from a Rancher who owns land on Jack Creek I'm the fourth generation on that ranch my children are the fifth I probably know Jack cck better than any man alive I fished it I've hunted it I've buckaroo it from the top to the bottom since I was a little fell big enough to get on a horse I've walked it before that my dad loved to Feast that Canyon every day that he could get off he'd go to that canyon to go fishing I don't think that's a Wilderness and I don't think it should be deced a Wilderness this Canyon is accessible by road to the edge of the rims on pretty near every side it isn't a Wilderness it's a cow pasture it's been a cow pasture since the first settlers come to Bruno Valley more than 150 years ago and that's all it is there's no trees there few Willows in the bottom of the creek no trees on the plains you have a sharp divided Canyon and you're trying to make a Wilderness out of nothing but a cow pasture those comments last night at a BLM Hearing in Grand View another hearing was held in boisee this afternoon and it will continue in about a half hour from now more now on this High Desert Wilderness debate first with the Bureau of Land Management Joe Zimmer is the boisey district manager of the BLM first Mr Zimmer was that the sort of thing that you expected to hear last night what the little sample we just showed on videotape there yes I think pretty much Mark uh Wilderness is an emotional issue as evidenced by what's going on now with the forest service and the Congressional efforts to resolve that problem uh where we are at now is in the second phase of a three-phase study uh we started out with the inventory as directed by Congress through fpma that was passed in 1976 and what fpma is the federal land is the federal land policy management act yes and that act directed the Secretary of interior to take a look at those lands that were 5,000 acres and More in size and rust to see whether not they would meet the willingness criteria that would be uh if the areas were natural in size or natur you could experience naturalist there uh primitive Recreation Solitude and the imprints of men were pretty much unnoticeable uh as that inventory phase was completed then uh the secretary would be reporting back to the president periodically to let the president know what areas should be considered for a future inclusion in the W in the system um that act did not give the second secretary and indefinite amount of time in which to do that 15 years is a maximum so by 1991 that has to be completed the president has a couple more years till 1993 to get that in front of Congress the kicker on all of this is that while we are under study those areas have to be managed under our interim management policy guidelines so they're very restrictive measures right okay now the second phase of that then is to do the study phase which is where we are now we've gone through the inventory process there's been discussion about whether the areas are eroded or not that has been pretty well resolved uh we are in the study phase now and what we're looking at are the areas that that survive that initial inventory uh we're trying to uh to conduct those studies with people we don't want to plan for people and let them no here's here's a plan what we want to do is to say all right here's our proposals we've got seven Alternatives out there what do you think and that's where we are right now that's the process you're in last night the hearing view last night and as I mentioned the hearing continues here later on tonight um it seems to me if I if I read the various positions correctly here that the BLM is basically between two very polarized positions the Cattleman on the one hand who say no Wilderness at all in aah County and the conservationists who who want much more than BLM is proposed exactly that's your position we're right in the middle um well just tell me how BLM at this point has settled on that 110,000 acre figure that I mentioned a moment well we've gone through and looked at the areas to see what areas could we manage what what's really feasible out there uh do these areas have the characteristics that we mentioned before to meet the Wilderness act and that's what we settled in on okay finally uh is it Jack's Creek or is it Jack Creek I don't really know I've heard it both ways and I wouldn't debate the issue whatever people want to call it we'll call it that okay we'll come back sir thank you now let's hear from the two opposing points of view in this Wilderness debate on the one hand the Cattleman represented here tonight by Jean Davis who anches in aah County and the environmentalist represented by Chris Yoder of boisey a member of the middle snake group of the Sierra Club um Mr Yoder you first uh did I state it right that the environmentalists are on one end of the spectrum the catlan on the other and the BLM somewhere in the middle well certainly the BLM comes in between the Cattleman and the environmental Community uh we feel the environmental Community is quite close to the middle there have been a lot of uh compromises already made on Land Management and Wilderness issues before it ever got to the study stage that it's in now but as a matter of fact you want or the conservation groups generally would like to see 100 about 175,000 Acres as opposed to the 110 that the BLM is proposing that's exactly correct uh in the inventory stage that Mr Zimmer earlier mentioned uh the BLM ignored or found not suitable for study large Road cess areas that we feel are outstanding are natural and do in fact meet the criteria for management as Wilderness those areas were not studied and are not included in the 175,000 Acres we're now talking about so by blm's own criteria the areas left are outstanding in terms of naturalness and in terms of other Wilderness characteristics and Mr Davis you don't agree with that that's exactly right why not sir I've been in that country a long time and run run cattle in that specific area we feel we are uh we have given as much as we can we know that there are now 3.8 million Acres of wilderness in the state of Idaho with a congressional uh request concerning the rare two we would be at 4.2 million Acres that will probably go higher on a compromise we in AI County don't feel just as our late senator Frank Church felt that there is really any Wilderness Area in Hawai County he stated that many times there should be no Wilderness in Hawaii County Ted Trueblood the late Ted Trueblood a good friend of mine stated the same thing we in that area feel that uh our use over the years apparently has not deterred the uh the uh good condition of the area or the the thought that these folks the environmental Community would like to lock this up as Wilderness uh if we had mishandled uh and overgrazed abused the area why are they asking uh to lock it up that it's a natural area we think we've done a good job in most cases of recent years back yes before the Advent of the tailor grazing act there were abuses a lot of that land has restored itself uh we just feel that that the bureau has in many cases blatantly ignored regulations printed in their own brochures as to how uh interpretations uh of of the uh uh assessment process should go that they have ignored those and and it's Mr Zimmer's folks who are misinterpreting that that's our problem you heard the fellow on the videotape the last fellow's last comment there that you're not really in his view you weren't talking about a Wilderness here but a cow Pastor is that what it comes down to that there that this area really does not in your view have the kind of specialness if you will that Wilderness areas should have it I would take it I would differ it it has specialness certainly to those of us who live there it has great specialness and uh there's it it'll continue that way as a special area to us and and we take pride in in the things that we've done building pipelines our own dollars a lot of many cases no government dollars whatsoever and I'm willing to install these pipelines to give the bureau in this case the the BLM here in boisey a better capability of managing that area as we join with them in making multiple use this is what we think that ground should be managed for well I don't know whether I've created a new word here specialness or not but what is special about that area Mr Yoder well the the specialness uh varies from area to area there are a wide and diverse uh number of areas Canyon lands and uh grasslands what are the stakes what do we gain by designating this area Wilderness okay I think that's a good question uh I think Mr Davis uh uh made some points that uh that need to be addressed when you address what's at stake uh the fellow on the uh last night at Grand View talked about it being a cow pasture and I think that this illustrates very clearly what the uh Cattleman's view of multiple use is and we feel that it's a broader concept uh that you can have multiple use in fact even under the all Wilderness alternative in the Jax Creek area where Mr Davis uh ranches uh cattle use would increase by 21% so it's not a lockup as Mr Davis tried to imply earlier grazing and Wilderness are compatible but Wilderness is naturalness there are few Islands left of naturalness in the country in Idaho and in Hawaii County few areas where the hand of man has not shaped the terrain few areas where the terrain is still the way it was created very few areas where the vegetation on the terrain remains natural the way it was created the Jax Creek Plateau is one of those areas and we feel very strongly that that small island of naturalness in a sea of overgrazed desert should be protected and Mr Davis indicated that he didn't feel it was overgrazed the overgrazing is well documented uh I don't know what percent of a Wy county is in excellent range condition but it's very small less than 5% so you would disagree with Mr Davis when he says that the area has basically been protected by the people who use it up to this point absolutely it's been protected for their single purpose grazing if you can still graze and there's a lot of grazing potential there but for multiple use for protection of the soil for protection of the rangeland for protection of the scenic values for protection of the reparan zones for protection of wildlife it's not been protected it's been abused Mr Davis I think Chris is and Chris and I are good friends I've had Chris out in that country I've showed him some of the things we did and he starts leaning toward me and then I find that after he comes back to Boi and visits with his friend then he leans back the other way I'm just polite when I'm with you he he's taking out a context of statement I think or rely zering in on a statement made by a neighbor Rancher of mine in Bruno last night as being a cow pastor and David Laton did not mean that in a connotation that he's a constru to mean he's a multiple Ed person also we see because of some of the management practices we've instituted pipelines uh management of the grazing process we see increased Wildlife there we've seen the Sheep herd which has been mentioned so many times we've SE that incre increase and succeed probably better than any sheep uh implant in the whole state of Idaho numerous uh harvesting times where they've harvested sheep to transplant to other areas some sheep taken by game there and again they wanted what 100 head that was what they were shooting at when they planted the 12 head there in 1967 they now say yes excess of 150 we who live there and see them say there's over 200 head of sheep there and I would uh bet a pretty good sum of money that Joe Zimmer inside of a year and a half two years you will come to our figure that there are 200 headed sheep there by then we'll be at 225 or so let me just ask you both one more question then we'll bring Mr Zimmer back in this Mr Davis obviously those folks that we saw on the videotape who were at that hearing last night uh we angry what are they angry about are they angry about this entire process about the way the BLM has handled it are they angry with folks like Chris Yoder what are they angry about I I think we're frustrated as much as being angry uh uh and and we're frustrated because of the the things we have to go through to refute some of the uh assessments assumptions made in this case by the BLM uh we think that a lot of people from the environmental Community really don't understand that we welcome those folks to come out as I have done with Chris and and and tour them around and show them some of the things and I'm sure Chris would admit that he learned some things there that he didn't know before still we're wide apart yes on what the final settlement should be but no it's it's the frustration of we ranchers of producers Farmers producers of food and fiber in this country we're productive people we have to be or we're not in business and we're frustrated with the time and the cost and the effort of uh again refuting or trying to position ourselves our industry and what we think is best for the state of Idaho in conjunction with what we think is misrepresentation and of the guidelines in the intent of Congress in the passage of flipar Mr Yoder do uh folks from your end of the spectrum here do they have gripes with the way BLM has handled this too uh we feel that BLM has been trying hard uh they're kind of new to the multiple use game uh before 1976 before the uh enactment of the federal land policy management act that Joe mentioned earlier uh they were not a multiple use agency they were a grazing service and so they're a little bit new and they've been under a lot of political pressure they've seen their state director exiled to Africa really forced into early retirement uh because he didn't get along with the cattle Community they see people transferred all over so it's difficult for them they're operating under a lot of pressure but some of that pressure comes from you you too well we we try and provide some counterveiling pressure and uh but on the balance the I hear you're saying the BLM has done a reasonably good job in in dealing with this particular issue um they have made they they have been we feel uh overly responsive to the concerns of the uh people who oppose Wilderness particularly when you consider that Wilderness management uh protects existing use the uh for instance grazing by law can continue in the same manner and degree as it did prior to Wilderness designation okay let me let me I don't want to interrupt you but let me get Mr Zimmer back in this it sounds like you're catching it from from both ends here well it's kind of typical for our agency you know we're always in the hot seat um on this particular issue I I applaud the efforts of um of the lifestock community and the conservation groups to get together unfortunately doesn't sound like they're very much together they haven't gotten together enough to really work out their differences and as long as they continue we're going to be polarized uh Mr Davis mentioned having Chris Yoder out to the ranch I think those are very positive steps and should continue our fol look look at this as um as a job that we have to do we're hired we're paid salaries to do that Congress has given us some guidelines and that's our responsibility well let me just go back quickly to one thing that Mr Davis said about and his word not mine that you have blatantly ignored some of the guidelines and your own regulations about what to consider As I understood it what to consider as Wilderness land well I think we'd have to talk specifics there you know that's a pretty general statement and I don't think that that's a very true statement can you give me one specific Mr Davis yes yes in in a policy manual dated 1978 it indicates that Wilderness not will not be created to to benefit any other use in several instance through the JRE Wilderness draft Eis it states that if we go Wilderness this will benefit the Sheep herd and we think that they're using the con we think that's completely 180 degrees from what they were instructed to do several Ines roads uhit okay another if you are to declare a Wilderness Area you have no roads in the area they're talking of closing roads and we say that that is blatant disregard of what uh really uh constitutes a Wilderness from the beginning Mr Zimmer well you can bring in the big horn sheep and uh Wilderness would would help uh the big horn sheep population but it isn't necessary for the big horn sheep population I think what we have to talk about are the areas's uh qualities in terms of nationalist Solitude getting back to those basic things that does constitute a Wilderness let Congress decide how much of this area should be set aside it's not a c pasture there aren't roads in there there are a lot of Acres out there you can experience the Solitude this is what we hear and this is what we have to come forward with and say all right now how much should really be preserved that's the job that we have to to come to grips with yeah let me just go back to this road issue though uh we had some different different interpretations of whether there are roads that have to be closed are there roads that will have to be closed are there are some what we would call Cherry stem roads roads that that intrude Into the Wilderness Area and and and uh dead end say 2 three miles into the Wilderness Area to a spring for example uh those those areas were were carved down and not included in the wilderness study inventory process um in the analysis that we've been doing with with the Jack or the Jack car you want to pronounce that uh we've said that you can also enhance those areas for example in Tiger Springs where there is a road that goes to a spring that area would be closed to recreational use but it would be open to Rancher use Ranchers have legitimate rights out there they would be able to continue using that road uh for livestock purposes Mr Davis you want to make a point on that of course Joe is talking about grandfather uses but we're uh we think those are tenuous uses we've seen so many times in the last 18 years since the creation of wilderness under the force United States force and this is the way the BLM Wilderness will be administrated under administered under under this act and uh numerous people have uh the restrictions to Graves and the things that take place uh no more Vehicles you have to pack salt to this area these sort of things and been so restricted that people have just walked away from uh permits that they've owned and cease to run cattle and that's your fear with some of that's my fear and it stated in in a bureau uh publication that Congress is aware of this and they stayed for 15 years that was three years ago it was printed that Congress is aware of this but they refuse to deal with it and again this gets to the interpretation the attent of Congress and what is actually being done here Mr yod that same publication the blm's Wilderness management regulations uh States very clearly that a if Vehicles were used to put salt out before Wilderness Vehicles can continue to be used the only restrictions is if uh vehicle use would seriously impair the Wilderness values and big and it's economically feasible to use a non-motorized method so you're really saying that Mr Davis and his neighbors out there don't really have much to fear from Wilderness designation that they can do almost all the same things that they do now the only thing they have to fear is that they will then be faced if areas are Wilderness uh they'll be spotlighted in the attention of a lot of people people will be aware of the area and what's happening to them uh the areas will have to be managed for uses other than solely grazing which means that they'll be faced with real multiple use for the first time probably in their careers and this I suspect is what they really fear Mr Davis and of course that's an untrue statement and and Chris knows that that I don't believe that these these areas will have used by more people and and not the privileged folks uh who can afford Wilderness as was indicated by my neighbor basically those are the folks who can and will utilize the Wilderness Area it's there anyway why do we take away the right for a lot of my neighbors who are too old to get into that country if they had to walk or to go horseback why do we lock it away from them people who grew up in that area some people who Homestead actually were raised in some of this area and Chris and his folks call this Wilderness uh it's uh it's more Wilderness today than it was back in the 30s because those folks aren't homing in those areas today and we're making utilization of it through grazing and multiple use and we're Distributing anvelope and deer by placement of water the game is much better because things I just have a few seconds left Mr yod two issues uh Wilderness is for the rich obviously false the rich can always buy Solitude they can always buy naturalist naturalness but only by protecting Wilderness areas will we the people and our descendants be able to enjoy it because a Wilderness doesn't know how much money is in your wallet it only knows that you're willing to take the land on its own terms on the issue of uh I just have 10 seconds left okay access to the uh uh older disabled would not be restricted because there'd be no change it would be kept as it is if they can't get there now they wouldn't be able to if they can they can they can get just in a word you the comment period will be open until the early part of November November 2nd okay right well I'm not sure we settled anything but it was a fascinating discussion Mr Zimmer and Mr Davis and Mr Yoda we thank you gentlemen for being with us tonight that's our time for tonight we'll be back tomorrow I'm Mark Johnson good night [Music]