JD Vance Admits Just How Far He'd Go to Put Trump in Power | Bulwark Takes

hey guys it's me Sam Stein managing editor at the bullwark I'm here again with uh Bill Crystal and Andrew Edgar they are the co-authors of morning shots uh one of the true influential newsletters in the morning get it in your inbox 9: to 9:30 we're actually going to talk about jie Vance the Vice Presidential nominee was on a podcast the all-in podcast uh which is basically a bunch of Silicon Valley investment Bros who talk about uh Maga republicanism and how much they love it they had JD Vance on uh one part in particular really stood out uh which was on four different occasions uh JD Vance was pressed on whether or not he would have certified the elections the 2020 elections uh like Mike Pence did uh infamously or famously uh in that election cycle on four different occasions Vince either refused to say whether he would or would not have done so Mike Pence um your new boss Trump is a little upset at Mike Pence because Mike Pence refused to overturn in the election results and um if you were in that same position what would you do would you have overturned the election results well I I think it's let me take itue with the premise a little bit Jason because I don't think the argument was Mike Pence could overturn the election results I think the argument was that Mike Pence could have done more whether you agree or disagree Mike fence could have done more to sort of surface some of the problems in would you have not certified I I think that what I would have done I mean look I I I happen to think that there were issues back in 2020 but two the reason who was asked to not certify it sure so would you have certified it last year for the third again I I would have asked the states to submit alternative slates of electors and let the country have the debate about what actually matters and what kind of an election that we have you would have certified to be clear I would have asked the states to submit alternative slate to that's that's that's what I would have done again I've said that publicly many times bill I want to get you first um Vance has kind of dabbled here before uh so this is not terribly surprising and yet it's shocking right uh we we we're in a position where someone could potentially be uh seated in that critical role of governments and not do what Mike Pence did it's shocking but it's it's why Vance was picked Trump I I believe personally but I think especially Don Jr and Tucker Carlson and the three of them as they talked did not want someone who was not an election denier they didn't need necessarily have to pick the absolutely most outspoken election denier but Vance has been pretty consistent in refusing to go the Mike Pence Road or even the kind of Mitch McConnell let's just call it you know more milder version of well though it wasn't ultimately stolen path uh and again it tells you a lot about what the Trump Vance Administration will be like maybe he'll never have a chance to uh you know it would be 2029 by the time he has a chance to overturn an election I suppose as sitting a vice president but it tells you the kinds of people who will be appointed to a trump cabinet and a trump White House they will be JD Vance and further out if you were an election certifier in 2020 you have no chance of being in my position in my opinion in a senior position in the next Trump Administration I guess a lot of people maybe I'm crazy about this but I think a fair number of people still hold on to this well oh JD Vance like y educated uh you know kind of dipped his toes and Venture capitalism and knows all these smart people as a smart guy himself stuff like surely this is an act it's a it's a bit of political theater and if he actually were in that situation well then he would do the right thing is that crazy I mean I I think he's telling us what he would do right yeah I mean I I I think like one of the things that Trump has always loved about JD Vance is that he has the Zeal of a convert right I mean he was formerly a big Trump opponent he was formerly you know sort of an an early Avatar of sort of a different kind of of possible republicanism as he kind of came onto the scene and he has completely made his calling card as he has switched into this into this new role and and as Bill said the reason why he was picked is because he has led with the fact that that he will be more pliant more pliable a better yes man more reliable for anything Donald Trump might want to do than anybody else who was who was in the running and I mean people people kind of look at JD out on the trail they're like wow he's kind of terrible at this he's awkward he keeps getting in all the stepping all these weird rakes like plainly he has not been picked because he's like an asset for the election and that's true I mean he was the Donald Trump's biggest takeaway from The Mike Pence era was that at the end of the day if you pick one of these guys who's like one foot in one foot out as like a bridge uh to to reassuring a specific part of the Republican Coalition um they can they might turn on you in the end at the critical moment um and so he was going to pick somebody all along who who who showed that they would never ever do that um and I think I think that's that's JD Vans can I just add one one point I yeah fance was a one way to put it might be fance was a project 2025 pick a governing pick not not the kind of governance I want but a genuine authoritarian governing pick not a tactical electoral pick because as Andrew says he he didn't reach out to a broader part of the Coalition the footnote I would make I would offer to that is given that the race is now dead even and maybe Trump took a little hit with Vance but he seems to have come back to you know pretty good to an even position I wish I were more confident that it wasn't working as an electoral pick maybe the demagoguing the Shameless demagoguing on immigration the really you know Shameless playing of the race and nativism cards I don't know I hope those don't work but maybe maybe that's maybe Trump's not so stupid maybe he realizes that there's votes to be gotten there and you don't lose as many of the you know respectable Republicans as you might think well what struck me about the interview uh wasn't what Vance said because we kind of expect Vance to say that stuff it was what the hosts were saying and how they were reacting right like the hosts are there they're again well- educated Silicon Valley types uh extremely wealthy individuals we assume smart um it's clear that they don't agree with Vance right like they they're very evidently I mean the reason he was asked four times is because they thought Mike Pence did the right thing in certifying the election results relying the certific certification go forward um it's also clear as the topic in this in their podcast turns to immigration uh that they also don't really agree with Vance that they believe that there's merits to Legal immigration and of course couch saying oh we can't have open borders but no one's saying let's have open borders president Trump came on the podcast we talked about hey maybe really talented people we should recruit them to our country and give them green cards um but very quickly um your group walked that back a bit it's such a political hot potato and it doesn't seem to me that it needs to be but you spent a lot of time in government now why is this so weaponized by both of your parties well I think the reason why it's so difficult right now and I mean look generally I agree that okay we're going to let some immigrants in we want them to be high Talent high quality people you don't want to let a large number of illegal aliens in obviously I mean look this is I'm sure a very diverse crowd and I'm sure there are a lot of immigrants In This Crowd legal immigrants uh hopefully your plan is to deport tens of millions of these people tell us how that will happen practically how are you going to take million of people put them in C drag them out while people have their cell phones out recording this or is that just Trump being Trump well Jason it's I likeing you like the balance in the podcast yeah I do I do and yet they love JD Vance uh and they're all voting for Donald Trump so like why is this why aren't these two things more Salient uh for this crowd specifically um is what gets me it's like they these are two very big issues and yet they're willing to look Beyond it um for whatever reasons they have I mean 40 what a huge majority of Republican Senators and members of Congress are willing to look Beyond at the Wall Street Journal editorial board is willing to look Beyond it most of the staff and National reviews willing to look Beyond it this has been the secret of Trump's success I think it's not just the base if if the others had deserted him at any of the times they could have including after January 6 he would not be where he is today so I think you're very right to point to that s it's a very indicative thing they don't agree with him they kind of dislike it it makes them a little awkward it's not really you know well they're like begging him to say care they don't care how many follow you going to have about January 6 we 28 minutes talking about I want to hear David especially if he gets me out of answering tough questions they're begging him to say something different like they keep it they're smart not to say anything different in a way because they'll get no additional they're already voting for Vance and for Trump and this is more of the immigration thing than the January 6th thing that he they think they can get additional uh votes uh with the nativism card and the race card and the immigration cards and I wish I were more confident they were wrong yeah the most striking thing to me about that moment in the podcast is when when they realized they weren't going to get that answer out of him on January 6th then a different host steps forward and says okay well now I have a question for you about policy and and J V is like yes please can we talk about policy um and and and it's just such a remarkable thing because the vice president is it's a weird job right I mean you're basically the backup quarterback you're there in case something happens to the main guy but it's as if the backup quarterback in this one weird role has a button in his hand that can blow up the whole stadium right and it's it's refusing to certify the results of the next election he has this largely ceremonial role that it turns out uh he could use to throw everything into a ton of chaos that's an enormous policy question I mean like like as far as the role of this guy is concerned assuming you know God forbid nothing bad happens to Donald Trump if he's reelected in the next four years it's really the only incredibly ific thing JD Vance will do um is is have to certify the next one so the idea that that these guys and and they do it and and you see it all across America people do it is kind of compartmentalizing January 6 and compartmentalizing the whole fact of of what happened in 2020 of trying to trying to Short Circuit the entire system and just trying to turn it into this this this kind of historical artifact this weird thing that we all live through boy wasn't that strange now let's talk about policy and he asked some questions about you know tax rates and and and Federal revenue and it's just like I mean this is kind of the the tunnel vision and the compartmentalization that that is so much of a problem for KL Harris right now going into this race is that there are way more people than than we would think and hope uh would would think this way about what happened in well it's like I I I was kind of like last week's conversation got to the same thing which was like there's one conversation happening about oh what should the uh uh what should be the proper effective tax rate on unrealized capital gains right and then the at the same time Trump's like you know what I'm going to have a bloody deportation for us and I'm going to jail all my political opponents and you're like oh my God like we're operating on two very different planes not to mention that you know that the effective tax rate on capital gains like there's a divided Congress isn't going to really change tax policy if we're being honest about but a strong executive will go out and you know go do a a massive deportation for us and will weaponize the Department of Justice like two things that are theoretical but one is much more likely to happen yeah just and just the policy thing is it's self phony of course because you know what they don't agree with vanon policy either he's a protectionist Trump's for tariffs he's for you know he's very much for industrial policy these guys are presumably free willing you know let the let the he doesn't like big Tech or he claims not to and yet that doesn't matter either because you know it's not really about any of that I think it one really has to come to that somewhat dark view about a lot of the what is it about Trump Advance it's about hating the laugh it's about uh for these people it's about having access to an Administration that will take their calls and do them favors they have decided that a kind of friendly corporatist Administration is better than a you know mildly liberal Administration that might use antitrust and that might raise taxes a bit and so forth so for them it's probably that for an awful lot of other people I think it is more the Grievances and the and the uh hostility to cultural the cultural matters the cultural War stuff I will say that there was one other section of the podcast to your point where they talked about Lina con I think what lenina con fundamentally gets correct is that big Tech really is a threat it's a threat to free speech it's increasing oligarchic it controls too much of what we're allowed to say and also it controls a lot of the ways in which capital gets invested in these various ecosystems but where I think Len lenon goes wrong is that you're exactly right like you need the singles and doubles you need sometimes a medium-sized company to buy a smaller company for $300 million right that liquidates Founders that giv The Venture fund some money to go back into the system and I think that you know not I don't know her super well but my basic read on Lena is that she is so anti-monopoly as sort of a baseline bias very JD V is like a big lenina con fan uh they he's one of those conserva cons uh and it's evident that they are very much not Lina confence they're like they are you know they know that Trump is where they are not where JD Vance is on that he does not take he does not take on big business ultimately right no and they were like look can you just get to stop being against m&as like we need these mergers and Acquisitions and Vance's like you know I really like the stuff she does but you're right the mid-level mergers and Acquisitions we probably should have uh Andrew I can't leave without asking you um because we're talking about Vance and and and nativism and and the culture War stuff we're on like day two of this insane story about Haitian migrants in Springfield Ohio it's a it's it's a conspiracy it's phony it's false allegedly uh abducting cats and and eating them it it didn't happen but Vance is back online and and he's like got to be one of the most online politicians period let alone uh vice presidential candidates or presidential candidates ever so um what are your thoughts on where we go with this wild story yeah I mean it's it's hard to talk about any these any of these things because like like what's what's in the news right now is this town of Springfield Ohio you guys talked about it in a video yesterday you kind of covered the basics of of like yeah there there's there have been a lot of new Haitian migrants to this Rel can I just interrupt for a second they are not migrants they are legal immigrants to this country yeah they have temporary protected status temporary protected status I I dislike I don't mean to be critical we should not use the word migrants about these people they are here legally these are not people who snuck across the border are hiding from the uh border Poli border patrol they are people who applied for this maybe they should change the rules on temporary protected status but they were given that so I just want to make that clear that that this is how bad this is what they're doing anyway go ahead I'm sorry Andrew yeah I feel like we're having some sort of like semantic dispute about the connotation of the word migrants that's just going over my head a little bit I they didn't start out here I think that's what that that term but they are here Bill's right they are here legally under the law they are allowed to be here um and and and moved moved to this town because there were jobs for them here I mean right like that was that's kind of the the the bottom line um and and and have there's been some difficulties with that some strains on strains on social services and all these things um but but none of that has been what has bubbled up it's been these insane conspiracy theories um that you know kind of bubbled up from a handful of like friend of a friend rumors on social media about these people supposedly you know abducting and and killing and eating people's house pets I mean stuff like that um and so and so JD Vance was spreading this stuff just yesterday um and and and uh you know just talking about that stuff specifically and then here's a post what he said uh this morning in the last several weeks my office has received many inquiries from actual residents of Springfield who've said their neighbors pets or local Wildlife were abducted by Haitian migrants for starters this is still friend of a friend stuff I mean my neighbor this happened to my neighbor it's possible of course that all these rumors will turn out to be false do you know what's confirmed that a child was murdered by a Haitian migrant who had no right to be here that local Health Services have been overwhelmed that communicable diseases have been on the rise local schools have struggled to keep up with newcomers who don't know English rents have risen so fast many Springfield families can't AF afford to put a roof over their head I can't go through all that stuff some of even some of that stuff is is wrong I mean like no no child was murdered by a Haitian migrant there was a car accident that that a kid was killed like so like but this is what's so infuriating to me about just JD Vance constantly is he still has this kind of like um there's this side of him that wants to do the kind of wonky thing the policy thing and like the the earnest thing like well here's what this is really about um but but he is the he's the one who was spreading the cat rumors just yesterday I mean that was what he was doing and and then and then later on he's like spare your outrage for your fellow citizens suffering under K Harris's policies keep the cat memes flowing it's like no uh you you you should actually continue to say that Haitian migrants are eating the cats for some reason because because why I mean like it's that the two sides of his brain they don't meet anywhere um and and yet he he wants to still be able to do this this like oh no really I'm just concerned about you know the fact that they've had to hire more ESL teachers at the local elementary school and that's why we're going to continue this this just torrent of Filth about these people that's that's just lies and it's just I mean it's he does it about all kinds of things just to bring it back to the Mike Pence thing for one second in that same podcast the all-in podcast he he's basically like uh in the in in the answer about Mike Pence he's like look I don't really know Mike Pence you know I think he's a fine guy um I but I just think he hates Donald Trump because Donald Trump doesn't want us to get in a nuclear war with Russia Mike Pence doesn't want to get us in a nuclear war with Russia or like constantly he'll be on the campaign Trail uh and and he'll get a question from a media from a local reporter or something he be like now you know you you oh man another horrible question from The Lion fake news and then you'll kind of like laugh and be like like he's kidding about it but it's like no that's a terrible thing to say to some guy you just met and he just he bounces back and forth between these two things constantly and it gets on my nerves is all I'm trying to say gu my n just if I can just be say one thing we should say one word here that we have been too polite to say it's racism why are we focusing on Haitian immigrants incidentally it's racism I mean they're not they don't have actually their English is quite a lot of them know English Haiti is not that far away a lot of them know Creole and French it's very easy language it's not the hardest language to get ESL it's not even worth getting into the the mean the details as Andrew says though because it's not really about any of the policies France are going up I guess they're they're bringing they're actually working and paying you know landlords I mean it's not about any of that it's it's a pure dog whistle on Race yeah and it's specific to Haitians uh as someone who's been to Haiti on three occasions um it's you know a long-standing Trope that Haitians are Witch Doctors uh that they're primitive uh that they of course would eat cats uh it is racism uh it's directed at a community uh that is you know dealing with the strain and social services but it's still racism and the the the really pricious stuff is not like JD Vance being hyper online which is crazy to me and and Andrew's points are valid it's what comes next it's all the right-wing characters who are going to now descend on Springfield uh Andrew you pointed it out in a slack Channel there's a bunch of right-wing media types magga media types who are now going to go into Springfield put put a Target on these people uh castigate them even more and it's not hard to jump a couple steps ahead to where this ends up being something more problematic in terms of a confrontation so yes uh there real life consequences to what JD's doing and it's not just memes about cats could be much worse on that uplifting note bill and Andrew thank you both for joining us uh thank you all for subscribing or tuning in to the uh bull workk YouTube channel as always do subscribe and then share this stuff we uh really appreciate all your support um and thanks a bunch guys we'll talk later