Kamala's Freedom Agenda Beats Trump's Doom & Gloom! (w/ Mark McKinnon) The Bulwark Podcast

Intro she checked off the things she needed to do she introduced herself told her backstory uh did a bunch of policy stuff checked those boxes but the thing that was a incredible and puts her in the Hall of Fame category with 80 and 60 is that she trolled him like I've never seen before like like nobody's ever [Music] [Applause] done hello and welcome to the bu podcast I'm your host Tim Miller I'm pumped to be back with my partner in crime Mark McKinnon he was a media adviser for both Democratic and Republican campaigns including W McCain and Richards uh and he's co-creator executive producer of a little show called The Circus you might have heard of uh Hey MCAT what's going on man hello felma Louise here good to see you again my yeah long time no see the last two months it's just a crime that we weren't able to be out there oh my God I mean it's just insane it's it's just ridiculous that we're not in the air right now uh I mean this is more circusy than anything we ever covered and and would be epic but we can talk about it unbelievable I did I did my best without the cameras to do circus type behavior in the spin room um uh the other night know we can always count on Harris in the debate hall of fame you um well let's let's I want to talk about the debate I buzzed you um I had we had the little hurricane New Orleans my schedule got uh got you know uh mixed around and I needed a I needed a pinch hitter so thank you for Pinch hitting uh but I I I text you around after I saw this tweet Bob Shrum former Democratic strategist had sent this he he wrote I coached a lot of presidential and other candidate debates Harris had one of the very best debates ever JFK 60 Reagan 80 level uh you replied as have I and worked against Bob and I 100% agree really that good Reagan a for you yeah really that good um for for a bunch of reasons um the you know the first of all Bob Shrum is one of the best in the business ever and I you know watched him and also worked against him he was a big Kennedy guy and and prep for Gore uh so he's a Hall of Famer and doesn't say that casually but uh you think about the stakes that were at play here and the thing is that you know the the what's important to remember here is that people are not just I mean people are natural born communicators people are not Natural Born presidential Debaters it takes a godam lot of work and a lot of preparation if you're actually going to excel at this and you know you can try and wing it like Trump did and see what happened but also George W bush winged it in his reelect Obama winged it in his reelect they didn't take it seriously and they got their asses handed to him and it's a very particular kind of preparation that it takes I mean you have to understand what a split screen means and and she did that exceptionally well I mean she in that debate she looked like she was you know on the beach in the in the sun Trump looked like he was in a hail storm freezing his ass how he looked miserable I mean she she had this debate there was so much at stake mostly for her you know Trump was not going to move the dial one way or the other much people have fixed opinions but a lot of people don't know her they're they were kind of open to uh whether or not they might consider her and listen I mean there's sort of just the sound test turn the sound off what did it look like she looked relaxed in control calm presidential you know for people who just Ted in they say yeah I could I could see her in the oval uh and so uh the you know she she she checked off the things she needed to do she introduced herself told her backstory uh did a bunch of policy stuff check those boxes but the thing that was incredible and puts her in the Hall of Fame category with 80 and 60 is that she trolled him like I've never seen before like like nobody's ever done and not only trolled him but here's an interesting aspect of the trolling she not only trolled him and just went right to this deepest psyche which is so smart you think about the debate prep they go where what's the thing he's most proud of like you know Wharton School uh crowd size and just go right at what he thinks his strengths are and that'll take him off the chain and it [ __ ] did uh but she also did it the times that she Trove if you go back and look at it she did it when she was being sort of attacked on her weak points yes like when she got pinned on immigration she counter punched on the trolling so she took it right off her weak spot and went right to his which was incredible I was talking with somebody on our team about that and actually they had a planned because I also called it a crowd siiz joke yesterday but it wasn't really it was it was even deeper than that it was like you're a bad Entertainer joke it's like people leave early they get bored like people are walking out of on you like people are ready to turn the page which is even kind of a deeper cut but they had like planned that around something later in the debate where she was going to do it and like the immigration question comes up and she gives her answer and then she's just like you know I'm just going to throw the I'm going to throw the your boring people thing on the end of this to to kind of get you to change the subject I that was not the plan according to the team it was like John on the Fly by her really well done and that that shows incredible uh ability and performance uh that that's just just not a natural thing and you know people say well you know it's it's a debate and what does that have to do with being president president you know thrown into a situation cameras on so you have 30 seconds to answer a question that's true but what presidents do have to do is prepare prepare for foreign leaders meetings prepare for crises and this showed that she has the discipline to prepare and and and be you know and act like a president which is and and to be I mean think how much was on her shoulder talk about tension city as she looks so [ __ ] relaxed uh and one other thing I just want to do a shout out this is such inside baseball stuff Tim but but but it's important to give a shout out you know I was around the edges of a lot of prep but I was a shallow media guy there was always somebody in the room who was actually really organized really like going through the list had the binders and that's Karen Dunn you know and I've worked with her and she is talk about Hall of Fame and that here's an interesting data point that I learned and I I won't out where it came from but it's a reliable source that she did all this at the same time she's one of the most powerful lawyers and one of the most powerful law firms in the country and they according to my source they were opening a trial for one of the biggest firms in the country this same week so she was doing both so like an Richard's backwards and in high heels unbelievable Karen D um I I I grabbed uh for for Mark’s 8 tips for debates Vandy fair you wrote pieces of advice for Harris going into their bait I just thought it'd be fun to to go back through those you you gave 10 pieces of advice but here were your top eight one confidence is key check two tomorrow is better than yesterday check three you can be both the incumbent and the change candidate yep four pronouncements that separate from Biden are encouraged she literally said I'm not Joe Biden and a kind of a funny way at one point five drive drive home Freedom message six bait Trump and switch seven almost ignore him from time to time I don't know if she hit that one eight laugh all of them I mean she did everything yeah I just what I said was uh it takes extraordinary preparation and uh you know the politics is about performance especially if at this level and uh to to do what she did requires extraordinary preparation and she just was a pro she's like a professional athlete you know and and she just she prepared she had the muscles right she had the Playbook down and she she went out and Kamala exceeding expectations executed let's talk about that I I mean so you interviewed her uh for the circus you've covered her I I don't I mean look during the during the troubles as I like to call them um after the Biden debate um you know the the wh ered thing in DC from Democrats I was always a little more bullish on her than kind of what people were saying to me privately but I was also concerned you know we'd seen her at times be in her head a little bit in some of these interviews I I mean did you see this coming like this level of of Hall of Fame baseball whatever you called it like did you see any of that when you were coverer spending time or have you been surprised as well well listen I think she exceeded everybody's expectations nobody expected that level performance you know for something that was so critical um but but what I what I I did think that she you know her stock was undervalued and I I interviewed her for the circus and I I always felt that she had that she was a natural that she knew that not only a natural but that she was a performer uh that she could when the light lights go on she she hits a switch and like an Richards or other she just she could she could turn it on at with a flick of a switch and and um there was also just kind of a natural she was just relaxed and and I there was sort sort of that you know it was fun being around her she just she was sort of playful and she had to laugh and uh just kind of an ease about her she wasn't uptight you know she wasn't like oh God I'm in an interview and what should I say you know and so uh I always I you know I thought that uh you know Vice presidencies McCain always said you know you get kept in the dark and get fed scra so there's always a bit of that that you know I think is unfair and I think there was a bit of misogyny always going on as well too but but that she worked that to her Advantage you know every she everybody underestimated her and the best thing in the world to go into debate is to be underestimated and overperformed which is exactly what she did you know those podcast ads that sound like a robot reading a script well here's me the robot reading for the The Perfect Jean perfect Jean including this bit they sent me their jeans and after wearing them to battle against my child playing as Yoshi in Mario Kart I can confidently say they're even better than advertising but is that my true opinion or just more of the script only one way to find out I got to tell you these jeans fit like they were custom made stretch like you wouldn't believe and look fantastic the fabric is soft as a baby's bottom no babies involved promise the perfect Jean say goodbye to stiff cardboard Denim and say hello to cute Comfort the perfect Jean has a seriously massive range of sizes with six fits from skinny which you know I like to thick thick waist sizes from 26 to 50 and length from 26 to 38 so it doesn't matter if you're a short king or a thick zatty or something in 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NC with promo code bullwark 15 after you purchase they'll ask you where you heard about them please support our show and tell them we sent you [ __ ] your khakis and get the perfect Jean let's talk Pivoting to the middle about the substance of it a little bit the you know you've spent most of your career talking to the big middle folks um she ran pretty far to the left in 2019 and has been trying hard to Pivot to the middle like how do you how do you feel about the efficacy of that you know of of that pivot and and you know the Republicans efforts to kind of brand her as as on the far left pretty good I mean the one thing that I'd say about her and Trump the one she shares with Trump I I don't think at her course she's ideological I think she's practical yeah you know I think she's kind of navigated the water she came up to California she kind of did what she had to do but but she's never been pinned IDE logical despite Bernie Sanders I think thank you Bernie well I mean in 2019 that it was wrong but it was the Practical conventional wisdom among Democrats that like oh this is the moment that's the progressive left you know is is ascendant and you know the racial Justice like that was like the that was the conventional and it was it turned out to be wrong it was Biden was the primary but that's what the smart people thought I think she was just do she was acting practically exactly right and the one thing that I'll say that I think is really important is that I and I know you know this I learned a lot more from losing campaigns than winning campaigns and I think she did too and the thing about her is if you watched her over time she's gotten better and better and better and better and better she's grown and you can just see it she's like you know she played in the minor she you know she she you know she got her batting practice down and now she's [ __ ] she's slamming them man it's because she's done this a lot and and and and she's gotten really good at it and and so for people who turn on the television and look at they go yeah looks like she knows what she's doing she's presidential and and by the way I think it's a big strategic mistake for the Republicans and Trump to call her a flip-flopper because that's basically saying oh she's moving to where most Americans are be much better to just say she's still a [ __ ] liberal because that's what people don't want yeah and and I think that she maybe still has some work to do on that on the economic side of things but I don't on the foreign policy stuff to me like flying color like when I a little briefing with her privately a couple earlier this year and and that was the thing I took away from that was that like she has been doing the homework on foreign policy stuff and taking it very seriously and she has had a familiarity with it and and the themes that she was sounding are themes that I don't know 20048 MCAT could have written for her some of that some of the stuff I mean she sound she was sounding very you you know in the bipartisan tradition of the country as far as yeah and it also sounded you know like it wasn't talking points it felt like it was sort of coming from a core of experience and that you know that's the thing that you get from being a vice president you know a lot you're behind the scenes a lot but you're absorbing a lot as well and by the way on that front you know you know whatever you think of Joe Biden that's something he did exceptionally well yeah you um you Ukraine policy and undecideds mentioned that in you said in the airport you're in the airport you do you know you're kind of like a a thas freed Thomas Freedman in the cowboy hat you know kind of getting information from regular people uh and said you some Ukrainian folks and she was so strong in Ukraine strong I liked how she tied to Poland um but so smart yeah so talk about talk about what the substance of her kind of conversation on the Ukraine policy and then the conversation you had in the airport well I mean here this is something that I didn't even notice until I saw somebody remark on it later but she when she was talking about Ukraine she talked about sort of a you know the the Polish component of that history and the conflict that relates to I don't know what the numbers like 50,000 people who Polish people who live in Pennsylvania uh that it's going to have a direct impact on and and and relevance to and that's boy that's talk about a smart you know game playing uh uh you know where you know the the David Pluff you know don't demographics demographics that get us elected yeah so that that was super smart and then my my my fredman uh uh focus group was I just was in DCA airport and woman walked up to me who's from Ukraine and um you know it was really sweet but she said you know I just wanted to tell you that you know first of all be becoming from Ukraine I really loved what Harris had to say but more importantly she said I have a daughter who is uh in college in in Illinois and she said that she's she and her sorority sisters none of whom had voted before all watched the debate and every single one of them was now registered in voting for KLA Harris yeah that's a ridiculously you know fineo anecdote but I'm hearing more and more and more of that and I think the thing that's maybe overlooked in this election and undervalued at this point is we talk Right reacts to Taylor Swift a lot about undecided voters I don't think there's a lot of those there may be a lot of unregistered voters who are registering and you think about the Taylor Swift impact and stuff like that those kind of things could make a difference she's she's breaking some brains out there on the internet uh I I have a little Montage for you from Dave Dave Rubin Russian stoe a big big influencer tons millions of followers on YouTube apparently was taking Russian money unwittingly and Megan Kelly Rich lry talking about talking about Taylor Swift let's listen to that uh Elon Musk who they hate he saw that and he wrote this fine Taylor you win I will give you a child and guard your cats with my life so he's he's mocking he's exposing the Ridiculousness right it's like Taylor Swift you are a young pretty girl do you know what the Gang members from Venezuela due to young pretty girls it ain't pretty I'm allowed to criticize Taylor Swift and I don't give a [ __ ] who gets upset this is disgusting she if she wants to vote Harris Waltz she can do it all she wants but to say the reason she's doing it is because of Tim walls' stance on lgbtq Fu Taylor Swift and Emily this is unbelievable the left is losing its mind she signed at Taylor Swift childless cat lady why are you the anger where's where's all this anger come from T Elon wants to Father her children Dave rubin's fantasizing her about her getting raped by Venezuelan migrants Megan Kelly's F wording her like like I mean these these people are have lost the plot a little bit Yeah Tim there's a there's a Cajun expression that you'll hear from James carille hit dogs bark those dogs are hit man I mean it's ridiculous are you kidding Megan Kell she's saying [ __ ] you because because some celebrity endorsed a candidate come on I mean you didn't say that about Hulk Hogan for God's sake uh and I just think it it testifies to it really hit a nerve and you know you talk about the value of celebrity endorsements Taylor Swift here's my idea for Taylor let's do it uh uh she she goes to the swing states does concerts that are free for unregistered voters and if you're unregistered you get him free and you have to register at the concert yeah right I don't know uh get in for free I don't know that's she has a pretty fancy setup there Mark I don't know if I don't know if we we're subsidizing that I think she can afford it I think she can afford it all right well I mean I think there's no bad ideas in a brainstorm we're gonna we're gonna start we're gonna start playing with that but I'm I'm with you more more voter well she's already I think just in her little link that she put out she's already registered almost a half a million new V yeah crazy and and the co you know you just think about the college um Dynamic North Carolina you know and obviously the big state schools up in the midwest um there there's a non uh non-trivial amount of people that that can get engaged for something like this I I do agree with that I think that that's obviously the bigger impact than her convincing people I I want to go back to the foreign policy thing with Ukraine though um and I just you know I'm asking everybody this it's my More NatSec Harris endorsements to come? obsession so I've got to ask you because you know this world like the folks that you worked with in W world that are on the NAT sex side of things like what more do these people want from her you know the Condes the Bob Gates the W himself like why why haven't more of them spoken out on behalf of K KLA do you think well um I I think it's a remarkable number who have and all those dominoes are falling and there's like a new one every day and there's 50 days left and I'm still holding out hope my boss will come out I mean we know how he thinks he knows what he thinks about all this weird [ __ ] yeah uh and and and know how strongly they feel about uh you know what's happened to foreign policy and how uh you know what Trump has done to the America First notion and standing up strong against Russia and all of that so you know that Ki rice is just gritting her teeth every day as a you know as a Russian expert of all Russian experts watching this so yes I agree and and but like I said you know Alberto Gonzalez came out today or yesterday and there was like a new one every day that's true you're always more of the half full guy than me this this is the Felman Louise balance you know I'm always like I want all of them like every last one until the last dog dies I'm gonna be shouting at the Moon um the uh I I just is the foreign policy thing that is the most striking right because I I just think that like it would have been understandable if you're a national security conservative that doesn't like Trump that like doesn't really know what her foreign policy is going to be right like you don't know who's going to be around her you're a little worried she's California liberal who knows right um uh you know you heard you read something on Fox somewhere when you're still watching Brett bear that is her dad was a Marxist like you just you got you got some little concerns in your head but since she's been out there like the last seven weeks on foreign policy in particular I mean she has just been right down the middle like like not missing a beat on any of yeah no equivocation hard as a hammer tough as steel uh and it's like again it's not like talking quit it's something that's com from her core and it doesn't feel like something she just sort of recently adopted for the the only substantive complaint I've heard from anyone on foreign policy is from the left on Israel stuff you know the left was hoping that I think that she was going to be was going to Tamp down some of the or at least leave the door open maybe more to some more distancing from Israel and she she hasn't done it so yeah yeah and I think she's navigated that one pretty adroitly as well were you surprised by Dick Cheney no kind of yeah yeah I mean I'm not surprised by Liz of course but dick yeah yeah I that's chenies are all in do you want to can you can you get your adman hat on for me do can we do it i' I've I've you had your Taylor Swift idea while we're brainstorming I like Dick Cheney and AOC in a joint sitting in a living room like the one you're in right now you know maybe cult cultural exchange you know he's giv her some elk or some like some meat from Wyoming and you know she's cooking up some beans and rice or something for him you know I don't know that get him in the kitchen little cooking show oh I can't do better than that yeah we're working on it y'all I've just been a longtime The Washington Post reader of the Washington Post I've told you about this before but I just think back to my dorm being a dorky freshman coming to GW because I liked politics and getting so excited because they had that watched and post for free sitting there in the lobby a Lafayette Hall and I've been reading it ever since we've been having Washington Post uh reporters on this podcast and it continues to be a valuable resource for me so that's why I'm so excited that this podcast is sponsored by The Washington Post right now you go to washingtonpost.com thework and you can subscribe for just 50 cents per week for your first year if you listen to this podcast you know the great work the Washington Post does on topics from Capitol Hill to Carol lenning doing Secret Service to uh Isaac arensdorf doing politics uh in fact I was just reading Isaac's story this morning um which I really appreciated about Trump beginning to stoke suspicions quote unquote about the assassination attempt and how it's raising fears among people in law enforcement that uh that it might end up stoking more violence this was like one random aside of the debate and you know it gets lost sometimes in the coverage when Trump does this kind of stuff uh but our man Isaac was right on it and he had a great story about it this morning I was just reading right before I got on the podcast plus if you're in a rush and need to catch up quickly on the day's most important and interesting story the posts the seven newsletter is a quick commute read sent each weekday morning and it's also available as a podcast but don't listen to it before me the post has other cool features for audio lovers like you uh you can actually listen to The Articles now in addition to reading them so you can tackle your to-do list you can fold some clothes while you're catching up on the news at the same time with the election rapidly approaching now is the time to sign up for the Washington Post go to washingtonpost.com thework to subscribe for just 50 cents per week for your first year that's 80% off their typical offer so this is truly a steal once again that's washingtonpost.com backthe bull workor to subscribe for just 50 cents per week for your first year I Haitian pet conspiracy want to talk I want to we I want to Pivot to the cap stuff and uh I mean these [ __ ] guys they're quadrupling down on the this totally madeup racist conspiracy that Haitian immigrants are abducting animals and eating them um Bill Hagerty was on CNN uh the other day or yesterday saying that he uh you know he's been hearing things on the internet senator from Tennessee Chris rufo who's supposedly from the intellectual wing of Maga that Ronda santz put him uh in charge of a university down there uh he put out a tweet offering a $5,000 Bounty for anybody that can provide evidence of Haitian immigrants eating cats what what what is that I how did they get well well here here well Laura lomer traveling around in the plane that that's that's part of it let's stop that tell people who that is like okay Laura L is like the the most outrageous sort of qanon conspiracy theorist out there so far out there that she's getting attacked by Marjorie Taylor green as being out of the mainstream too crazy from MTG yes exactly and um it's kind of a Delicious Twitter fight for the real sios out there you might want want to go look at the MTG Laura lomer Twitter fight it's it's a it's kind of like a the Let Them Fight meme in a in a big way beautiful thing so yeah you know Eric Erikson who is a you know you know well-known uh journalist on on the right who's no Harris fan and his tweet yesterday was you know okay you stupid [ __ ] you know you realize that by putting out this ridiculous [ __ ] you just threw out the bait and made you know the guy who should be the next president looked like a complete idiot yeah and I responded to that to say yeah and you know who stupid [ __ ] number one is JD Vance yeah because he's the guy that was out there promoting it and the thing the thing to me that's worse than or or that's the worst thing about all of that is that when asked about it they they they double down and and make it worse by saying when people say what's your evidence they say well we heard it from a a constituent so just like the the the steel the B stuff back in 20 well I don't have any evidence but people are telling me so therefore I'm reporting it and and you know so they're just they rather than being you know doing what elected leaders do is find the facts and then tell your constituents they're letting their constituents just feed off conspiracy horeshit and then they're repeating it and amplifying it like just think about the JD Vance pick also for a minute I I love that I mean just you know is Trump's body language on V now is so good it's a I mean how how do you get in a situation if you are Susie miles our friend uh friendsh and Chris loav and Trump and you're going down the list and you're like we are going to pick a VP that is actually uh putting even more conspiratorial material into the campaign than Trump it's it's like how could you find a person it's like Trump is the conspiracy monger and Chief and like here here we got one where we picked where our VP candidate is actually uh instead of kind of reing him in or you know being the being the you know bumpers on the bowling lane for him trying to keep him in the middle he's accelerating it you know who's loving this Sarah Palin oh no longer the worst pick yeah I mean it's incredible you think I mean the first first job of a BP pick is to do no harm and he's doing harm like every [ __ ] day every day like they can't like each other like he can't like like does Trump I mean that's I said the body language Trump is like every time he get asked about JD V it's like I don't talk to JD V that you know he doesn't share my you know everything is like clear like he's you know he's on the phone with Junior saying what in the [ __ ] why did you why did you insist on this guy John Junior's in the dogghouse Trump's gonna be sending some Haitian immigrants after him pretty soon um there's a lot to laugh about about this but I do there's there are there two serious elements I I do I want to talk about um because it is [ __ ] the whole thing is outrageous um and uh you know I I usually am not one to pick on people for not being Swift on their feet on in interviews and on TV panels we've all been there sometimes you get put into a tight spot but I'm making an exception in this case I want I want to play for you an exchange between Anna Navaro and Scott Jennings two former colleagues of mine on CNN yesterday when he said that he wasn't being uh sarcastic he wasn't being hyperbolic he was amplifying a conspiracy theory that I think you would have agree puts a Target on the backs of Haitian immigrants and that it is based on racism would you agree on that anti-black racism would be more pointed do you think that if do you think that if there were 20,000 Scandinavians that had been sent to Springfield they you people would be saying that they're eating cats and dogs and geese I'm not going to answer for him for his memes or anything else but I am no no but I'm asking you do you think that conspiracy is based on racism that mean it's an because because I'm because I'm not going to answer I don't know that was a long pause Scott I mean because because I don't know the answer and I'm not going to sit here and answer for somebody I don't talk to Donald Trump about what the motivations are and I don't and I don't answer to you either but Scott answer for you but but the bottom line is trying to give you a thoughtful answer but the bottom boy yeah that was a long pause there our podcast listeners thought that that was The Sopranos episode just went to Black there for a second where where' Scott go I mean you know not to pick on like you know I I don't we don't look the audio speaks for itself with Scott but like that is the thing like Anna does hit on the point like this is not just like a crazy Q andon conspiracy like JFK Jr's alive it is a racist conspiracy that targets A specific group of people because they're black and that's just it 100% And and again you think about the Republican party and you know and how what how what a 180 this is from John McCain George W bush I mean the reason that I crossed the bridge to join George W Bush was because of compassionate conservatism and his Embrace of immigrants and our neighbors to the South and you remember John McCain famously in his debate saying no Obama is not an other he is one of us and to do anything others you know unamerican and it's just it's the worst worst kind of uh appeal to nativist racism that you can imagine yeah um and and the darkest part of this which one's going to be tough this is tough for me I I I almost cried I I'm I'm on a little bit of sleep this one I've only had three hours I think the last two nights between the debate Where did the hoax begin? and I came down to DC and called a little concert last night I probably shouldn't have done that I probably should have got a good night's sleep but you know life is for the living right we'll sleep and we're dead as Tim wall said but so maybe I'm just a little vulnerable but here we go um so this all the thing that started all the stupid cat conspiracy for for people who have not been following this closely is in this town of Springfield there have been there has been an influx of Haitian immigrants it's not clear to me actually like some of them are immigrants some of them are Haitian Americans um that some of them are like migrants who are not yet citizens and some are citizens and um and there's one incident where there's a bus driver that was that was Haitian that was UN didn't have a license to drive the bus shouldn't have been driving the bus and there was car accident and he killed uh and a kid died in the car accident Aiden Clark 11-year-old kid and that is like what was the impetus for all of this in like the crazy right-wing fever swamps right and you know this this it goes from you know whatever we shouldn't be having these migrants in this kid died to you know and then you know it gets expanded expanded expanded to eventually the point where the presidential candidate is talking about how Haitians eat dogs on on in a national debate um but the father of the kid Aiden Clark uh Aiden Clark's dad uh said this to the newspaper yesterday I now wish that my son Aiden was killed by a 60-year-old white man I bet you never thought anyone would say something so blunt but if that if that guy killed my 11-year-old son the incessant group of hate spewing people would leave us alone the last thing that we need is to have the worst day of Our Lives violently and constantly shoved in our faces but even that's not good enough for them they take it one step further they make it seem that our wonderful Aiden appreciates your hate and that we should follow their hate that's that's incredible I'm tearing up too I've had a full night sleep yeah I mean what what what a presumption of Grace on his part too I mean to to to extend and reflect that that that idea uh really powerful yeah and that's what it is I mean it's just like that's what all this fundamentally is right it's like this they are there Springfield is an actual Community where this is happening I saw another interview with like a manufacturing job a manager of a manufacturing plant and he's like I don't know man the Haitian immigrants are showing up to work on time they're like doing they're doing their job they're not complaining to me you know what I mean like and so you and so you have and I'm sure there also they're also you know when you have big influx of any group of people you know there's going to be challenges and like dealing with you know you know dealing disruptions but like that's what this fundamentally is it's like this American story of like people in a community trying to navigate this and it's being perverted into this like just totally blatant racist Bull and it's so unamerican I mean Steve Ratner did a great thing this morning on Morning Joe showing the data on you know what what's the real story with immigrants and crime statistics and as it turns out oh it's way under the actual population and they're much more law abiding and it's just you know it it to to take advantage of that for political gain it's it's just it's so contrary to the ideals of this country um okay speaking about the Chip Roy & the right’s dystopia ideals of this country you did it your TV man you know how to transition for me you don't even know it's coming uh I got chip Roy for you on the house floor yesterday let's take a listen to this what the hell are we trying to defend what is left of the United States to defend a school where I can't send my child to pray to God without spending $20,000 a year on top of the taxes I pay a school that my friend sends her sixth grader to with a trans music teacher asking her kid to do some dance in class yes true story true story what the hell is defend about America a kid was asked to dance in a class what have we come to there is a queer arts teacher oh I mean this is just happening now there's never in history before been LGBT drama club teachers I would I would have been more surprised if it was a straight arts teacher asking him to do the Pledge of Allegiance I mean what like this is like I just don't even know how we how you get to a place like this where you're like what the hell is left to defend about this country I mean this is where this total inversion in this race which is kind what I actually want to talk to you about does the clip is embarrassing it's fun to make fun of chapoy but like this inversion where the Republicans are now the ones that are like this country [ __ ] sucks this country sucks there's nothing to defend about it we're no better than any other country we're Killers too and it's the now Democrat it's kamla Harris it's like no and that she is and that she has stolen back the freedom agenda is so brilliant and you know George Bush used to say you know people don't follow a leader who says the future's all [ __ ] up follow me you know and Reagan knew that bushes knew that uh and just to have this dystopian you know we're a horrible place and it's all [ __ ] up and you know this this dystopian vision of America uh you that's one of the great things about Harris is that she is I think she understands that and she has made it all about you know a a bright future looking forward not a backward dystopian hellscape that people like chip Roy are trying to paint yeah and the other thing is that she has done is she's not going down that also that path that sometimes people in love to and look there's reasons to criticize America I'm not saying that America should never be criticized but of you know just focusing overwhelmingly on the um you know the the historical discrimination in the country right like like it's something that that as a woman as whack woman as an imig PR I mean like there's plenty of material to work with she could have talked about historical discrimination in her convention speech or the debate or whatever and it's just she doesn't like it's the she well yeah I mean does she ever talk about the Discrimination that she's faced never never I'm never heard her talk about that yeah and when she went last in the debate um another moment that really struck me was when the moderator asked Trump about his turn her his turn black comment and she responds by kind of going through his history of racism and like the next sentence right after she kind of lists off Central Park 5 and and and and you know birtherism etc etc you know you could imagine then going from there to being offended right like to act to talking about how offensive that is uh personally and I'm sure as [ __ ] Donald Trump and Republicans talk about their imaginary Grievances and offenses all the time but but she didn't she goes to talk about how that's not what America wants right America does want to be divided it's you know like she goes you've done racist stuff and you're dividing us and the PE and people don't want it people don't deserve it I thought I very deaf of way to handle that yeah and I think that really resonated with people and and I think will continue to do and again I just think that she's it's just an example of somebody who has gotten really good at her craft has learned over time and you know just we've seen a lot of candidates over time and it's just you you think about again sort of the pressure pit that she's been put in she's in a microwave turned up to 11 and she's handling it really well what's left to defend in this country Mark everything's gone to [ __ ] ouren teachers asking us to dance my God transgender teachers transgender teachers are out there you know there's just might as well just throw this whole [ __ ] experiment to [ __ ] you know Thomas Jefferson's rolling over in his grave um all right man before I lose you anything what what The next 50+ days next 50 50 plus days what's your sense of the state of play sometimes you have you you occasionally have a little contrarian POV on uh on you kind of the the handy camping so where's your head up well uh you know I I I just go to this you know I I kind of look for data points that aren't the usual data points and and I just have this notion that you know one thing we do in politics is we look at it through a mirror instead of a periscope and we're and and you you know first of all how many people do you know that actually get you know pick up a phone to answer up telephone poll almost nobody so you know you know who is it that they're actually talking to so you got to have some level of cynicism about anything you read about the data and polling and and we've seen the problems in recent years um but but I think the smart thing is that that the Harris campaign is running like they're 10 points behind lunning like they're an underdog which is the only way to run you run uh you know uh you run scared or unopposed and uh they they know the historical time set on popular vote in the Electoral College and the challenges all there and so but I think that I'm worried about I I'm worry about despite all the energy and excitement about everything I I I think there's a huge challenge particularly in Pennsylvania I was a Josh Shapiro guy and I just thought you know was very it's a very political thing for me is like you win Pennsylvania you win yeah that guy may give you a 0.1 bump but that that could be it take it and so but I am encouraged by again the anecdotal stuff I hear that I think that in places like North Carolina where they have a horrible Republican nominee for governor who's not exciting any Republican voters and I I'm hearing except for the you know except for the guys in the back of the dirty dirty video shop eating pizza eating their dominoes yeah and people concerned about the trans dancing going on at their schools so he's yeah he's exciting a couple folks all right couple folks getting excited so but but I encourage if I had to handicap it now I think that Harris is going to win and I think it's because of new unregistered voters that have come on of the scene you know again sort of anecdotally you just think about this has got the feeling of a movement thing something exciting something historic and if you're a young person or sort of a low information voter you just kind of see it going on around you you say wow something's happened I kind of want to be part of this you know there's just that factor going on and I think that's where she could make a play and pick up North Carolina and or Arizona and Georgia uh which would make up for losing Pennsylvania Harris wins so you you got you you feel like Harris could win there's your contrary view you think Harris could lose Pennsylvania and still win yes I do I think she's gonna win North Carolina and or Georgia and Arizona there you go Mark McKinnon you you thank you for Pinch hitting today they can cancel the circus but there's no rasing us um I need to give special thanks to uh bull workk super fans Russ and Audrey for taking care of me last night little SAR dippet his bonus night in DC everything's good we got P I just got a text while we're live we got power some you some of the plants maybe a little worse from the wear at our house in New Orleans but everybody's safe and sound I appreciate y'all's concerned I'll be back tomorrow for a weekend edition of the bullwark podcast see you all then peace [Music]