Star of Netflix's Sign Stealer | USA Today's Isaiah Hole joins to talk Connor Stalions Documentary

all right welcome back to Blue by 90 I'm Justin joined by Tanner today and we've got another special guest here our friend Isaiah Hull from Lockdown Wolverines Isaiah appreciate you joining us today man of course my pleasure uh I mean I'm I'm amazed that this is the first time you know we've known each other for years and I know we're doing it we've worked together in multiple fast we've worked I was gonna say we've worked together in a lot of different ways with a lot of different things um but uh you definitely are are one of our favorites uh out on the Michigan beat so I appreciate you joining for sure and hey we've we've got football this week so there's been a lot of talk I I tweeted it out last night like I can't wait for football to actually be on in a Michigan uniform so we can stop talking about all the stuff that's G on this season including the notice of allegations that came out on Sunday and everything so I'm just we'll talk a little bit about you don't want to get into uh this new rumor set up by on a Texas Board about uh involving and and all of these different I did see you I saw you quote tweet it and it was go ahead go ahead with what it was because it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard I I actually want to just go in and read part of it because it is it is every single single like fever dream rumor that rival fans have had is like included in this and it's amazing so it says I've been hearing a bit of everything from postseason banss vacated wins over multiple Seasons huge financial penalties strip titles scholarship reduction show causes for multiple coaches including for the head coach Etc who knows for sure but here's what we do know they are considered repeat offenders on a number of these charges like recruiting violations I'd go try to cover up 52 text messages from investigators there's some very credible gambling issues they have to deal with which then leads to wire fraud so I don't know but I can tell you it's much worse than they had on USC who got hit fairly hard OSU and other big 10 schools Want Blood because of Michigan's previous penalty so on so forth uh continues Jay Harbaugh is the one who introduced the big scheme to a big Michigan booster who funded the operation now if you think of how sophisticated the sign ceiling op was and you start relating it to gambling on games by big boosters gets very serious and then it's there's an add-on here it says the money Trail also leads to big money laundering scheme out of Detroit which is why where the feds got involved in all of this it's the type where people end up in bags it's you want this to stop it's it's only getting better we we are an inch away from like the plot of the next mission impossible movie here which is very rich coming from Texas fans like as if the state of Texas as it has their fair share of fraudulent activities among you know various different Enron comes to uh comes to mind and and it's just Rich coming from them they're the cleanest program in NCAA football history so I you know every program is the cleanest aside from the ones that you hate right exactly everyone Michigan that's still in my head yes I mean M Michigan is pretty clean compared to a lot of others but it's you know like in general it's college football you know it is an inherently dirty sport like at its core from the Inception from getting ringers to play back in the late 1800s and early 1900s there have been nefarious acts going on all across college football so it's very funny to see people clutch their pearls as we've lost Justin on the the video unfortunately but it's it's always interesting to see people get up in arms over this stuff when it's like and I don't even know all this and Isa you've got a better idea than me but I can only imagine what goes on in this sport 365 days a year because it's the most absurd thing and that's why we all love it I think Justin just wanted to recuse himself ultimately but it's uh he's like I don't I'm here I think but you're here you're here on audio we we have you on audio there we go but um I mean it's just funny like when it made it into John y Bacon's book that Clemson offered ran Gary $100,000 a year and and that was a rumor that I had heard back the day that he signed before he signed even you know on Signing Day and no one bat an eye at it and it's just like oh that silly Clemson they're out there doing what they're doing so it's it's just funny and it's I mean I don't love conflict in general it's as a as a someone who was very much a Christian and was raised in like Christian schools in the churches and everything like I I I only like conflict when it's necessary right like I won't shy away from it but I don't love it you know when so when you see people kind of cheering on this stuff yeah it's kind of like no can we just end this but at the same time when you've got this type of material to work with it's kind of like you know what I'm not mad at it you know you're you're coming up with these things next it's going to be like well you know how long before the president of the United States ends up getting included in like this sign stealing scheme Rumor Mill that has been going on like it it's we're an inch away from it being like you don't understand there was this big war between Putin and Biden and uh Biden directed Jim Harbaugh you know like it's gonna end up getting to that point I mean Gerald Ford Michigan Al right so how deep does it truly run Isaiah that's what the people want to know there's a pit somewhere I think in the state of Washington that's like it's like a bottomless pit like it goes like miles down uh I think it's probably deeper than that um what's in that pit and what don't we know about it you know that's the big thing what are they what are they hiding from us I'm I you know what I bet if we needed to we could get with Buckeye scoop and he would get to the bottom of it right after he cheats in fantasy football and whatever other things that he does but he will find it and figure it out he's already done it really I mean he's just he's just wait for the uh the powers that be in the NCAA to start releasing these things so we will play football on Saturday despite what a lot of people are are talking about that you know the death penalty is coming any day now for for Michigan football um but before Saturday there is a documentary coming out on Netflix about our friend Conor stallion uh and it is confirmed that you are in said documentary um so I wanted to talk a little bit about that I know you and I have talked a little bit uh behind the scenes about some of that stuff and um I I guess what is the general gist of this documentary that's coming out and and how is it going to paint Michigan in your eyes the general gist is this is finally Conor stallion his voice is going to be heard by you know people other than those who know him personally for the first time and you're going to get to hear his side of the story it doesn't go unchecked this isn't swamp Kings um it isn't scenario where it's just like you know well that's good enough for me you know like but um you're you're gonna get his side of the story and when you think about the fact that it's only really been like Outlets like you know hours that and and then you can maybe include like Rich Eisen pushing back on the narrative that's been set up from the beginning from the NCAA so this is the first time that we really seeing the other side from like kind of a bigger National perspective so I think that that's uh that's mostly what you're G to get I think Michigan fans will really like it if they you know at this point if they haven't watched already I mean it's it it's it it doesn't really tell you it's one of the things that Connor often said to me before I saw it was I don't think like people are necessarily going to learn anything new if you've been paying attention especially Michigan f um but it do you know there is a little bit of the balance and you're going to hear some of the things that uh maybe not quite to the same level as uh President Gerald Ford Rose from the grave to collude with uh with Jim Harbaugh to create the the greatest uh operation in mankind in sign stealing but you don't quite get that you know but it's uh you do get a little bit of the counternarrative in there and uh but ultimately I think it makes Michigan look good and I think I think Connor comes across as likable in it maybe a bit football obsessed but I mean who in college football isn't you know well I guess there's a few Lane kin's probably not that football obsessed but right you know like generally big-time college football everyone involved is pretty you know like that's their life and that's their livelihood and that's the thing that they care about the most and you kind of see a little bit more of what into it I it doesn't necessarily fully exonerate Michigan um but it and it does it does above Connor you know certainly but um it doesn't uh necessar you don't walk away from it being like nothing happened it's just kind of you have to decide what that NCAA bylaw 1161 you know was it violated and a lot of people believe it was and they kind of make the argument somewhat that it wasn't at least through Connor and his lawyers but you just see this whole the whole story and I think what's fun about it is it's not only do you get to like learn about his childhood and certain things like that but it it it takes place in the backdrop of the 2023 season so you kind of get to relive that a little bit but um certainly I mean some of the rumors out there are uh are they they're giving a little bit more than a wink and a nod so I think that that part's fun too uh so it's um it's definitely a mustat I think for college football fans certainly for Michigan fans without question and uh it will be uh I would imagine it's going to be watched by everybody at this point and the good news is so Sarah saw it yesterday with me she she knows nothing about football she's been on the sidelines with me before she still doesn't know what a touchdown is and yet she still walked away and said that was thoroughly enjoyable let me just respond to Isaiah real quick in my my thoughts there Isaiah is I don't think that there are any rational Michigan fans out there that are like Michigan didn't do anything wrong at all right like I I think that most rational average Michigan fans now there might be some some crazies for sure there's crazies in every facet of life but I think most Michigan fans are are sitting here being like all right were there some rules at the very least bent bent to a 90 degree angle right or like taken from you know from zero to 100 right that's probably what happened here also at the same time was this story completely blown out of proportion and was it just completely misguided by the media also yes so I think is that kind of what you're trying to say where it's like you're Michigan's not gonna get not going to be exonerated they're we're not going to paint Conor stallion as completely innocent or Michigan as completely Innocent but what it is going to do is shed some light on the situation as a whole and maybe bring it back to Earth in terms of here's what really happened and how far it really went I I do believe that that's I say I do believe as if I haven't seen the thing four times but uh it is that is really it and um I mean how much will those outside of the Rival fan bases take a step back and say like oh okay um I think that will remain to be seen you know we'll find that out but uh certainly like you're going to at least understand what's a little bit more about SE stealing they could have gone deeper um and you'll find out a little bit about like the ncaa's process like getting to see an NCAA investigation actually happening in process like an actual interview that's something that we've never seen before uh that said I mean there's parts that I know probably should have been included that weren't I could not speak to uh Netflix and its uh decision-making as far as like what parts were included but it also kind of lets you know like college football is is dirtier than people want to think you know in the sense of like they really lead you to believe like there's other nefarious things that were surrounding this and which is something I've been saying from the beginning and it's it's no secret now at this point that I've been talking uh obviously to multiple people but to Conor stallions throughout this entire process the only one that was at least for a couple months and um it's you know there were a lot of things where it was like okay how how did this investigation start to begin with and it a lot of people are like you know think that it's like the you know the Houston asteroids on steroids and all of these things and it's kind of like like well first you have to understand what sign Steelers do secondly is Conor the only one that was out there doing this and they'll lead you down some different paths uh in this so uh I think um I think it will certainly change the hearts and minds of some people it will harden the hearts and minds of rival fans who will uh certainly decry it as propaganda and all of these different things never mind that the the director of this was a uh someone who had no affiliation to Michigan or Connor he played football like Kansas uh but um and there's National writers in here and all of that but um I think it's uh it's certainly going to have an impact one way or the other uh and I think the timing of it also with the NOA coming in you know you you get you they Netflix announces that this is coming out and then the NCAA drops the NOA draft which is never really a thing right like you often don't aren't talking about an NOA draft and then they they uh you get 36 hours from the release of this and then they in the fastest fashion ever go go from draft to uh final product and uh issue that to Michigan that's not a coincidence they certainly want to be ahead of the narrative so uh I'm curious to see just kind of if people can see through that more after watching this well Isa I was gonna ask too you know are we just going to get everything leaked beforehand and just know this entire process inside and out from the in blaz perspective because it's just it's like clockwork at this point you know I'm surprised it wasn't a particular person at ESPN that that released it um or broke the news um but it just I I don't how can they continue to to break their own rules um Time After Time After Time again you know what they they respect the Integrity of the process they said that yesterday and you know I'm gonna take them at their word um it's a it's a organization that's always been above board uh never has had any agendas they never turned a blind eye towards anything right they they really are all about the student athlete and player safety and all of those things and um you know they they just really care and love about the Integrity of the game and so um I think the leaks were all uh you know any leaks that happened you know that was for the good of the game uh essentially you know and uh the good of the process you have to respect the you have to break the Integrity of the process to respect the Integrity of the process so uh yeah 100 I think I think we we got to be getting past leaks to some point because this is kind of wrapping it up but um I'm I'm just excited for just the actual leak of the NOA because you you see all of these fun uh Twitter accounts that the one thing about Elon Musk taking over Twitter and having the for you page on Twitter is like I see accounts that I never would have seen otherwise and I see them daily worst Buckey scoop MSU daily all of these and and it's the worst but it's also the best and just you know they didn't release the they didn't leak the no actual NOA because what's in it 10 times worse it's like bro that's not how that works like just use a moment of logic on top of this like the fact that that's just not true so um yeah NCAA is awesome that's to that's summarize my point and I think most people are in agreement it's just a vital organization that's needed in the state of college football right now and uh we just you know defer to our overlords to tell us what's next so I think I one question I wantan to want to ask you too is this is you know whether it's part of the documentary or just an overall bigger question is like okay you see people people that H you definitely have like a peak behind the curtains of what college athletics is like right I have a little bit of that too I know you know Tanner a little bit as well and just the people that we know um and to your point from earlier like it's not all about these kids and all rainbows and everything that that the NCAA would like you to think right and so my question to you is where does the sign stealing Saga where where does that land in terms of what like how dirty is that compared to other things other things that other programs are doing out there whether it be in recruiting whether it be in tampering whether it be in just you know whatever it is right where do you see this stack up against other things um you know similar to the Clemson thing with ran G that you mentioned where is this at uh it's kind of hard to quantify because I guess it's like what are what is every program doing most every program has a science dealer um and Michigan didn't for the longest time and really this operation I'm not talking about Conor and is vast Network I'm just mean the operation of having a sign stealer uh didn't exist in the first several years of Jim Harbaugh but and Conor it just this is something I'm talking about on my podcast as well like I just so happened to be on the flight down to uh Orlando for the Citrus Bowl in 2019 uh Connor was on my flight because he flew he flew in for the holidays and he left a day late so he could spend time with his family and our flight got delayed so at that time I heard like the his frustrations as someone who had stolen signs at uh at Navy to uh like the fact that you know Michigan wasn't doing that Michigan you know wasn't changing up their signs they weren't making it difficult for other teams to steal their signs and and that's really defensively in particular where Michigan kind of got got if you're in a situation like they Michigan was in at that time with Don Brown he was the one signal signaling things in he didn't have a lot of signals he never changed things up and your defense from a schematic standpoint is relatively simple as his was then suddenly it's kind of like it's a massive Advantage if you're another team um if if you are have a lot little bit more complexity to things especially from a schematic standpoint then it's not necessarily um I think the thing about it is is that you still have to defend these plays one way or the other right like if you're if you're sign stealing an off you know defensively to to for the sake of your defense of another team's offense you still have to be able to stop the thing that's coming right like how many times had you seen in particularly Urban Meers Ohio State before Ryan Dave became the uh the offensive coordinator it was like they were just running the same Arc Reed play over and over again you knew what was coming and you just couldn't stop it Michigan in 2021 against Ohio State that's the irony of like kind of their complaining you knew what Michigan was running pretty much every play on the in the second half you knew where the ball was going going you knew what Gap it was going to you still have to be able to stop it so because of that I think that it that has a different varying degree it matters a lot if you are very simplistic in your schematic uh design uh as in the opponents if they're if they're if you're very simplistic and as far as that's concerned it can matter a lot but probably not as much as it matters about like getting like a couple five-star recruits that you weren't otherwise going to get right like because you win with players and yes you have to develop and all of these things but if you're if if you were on your own going to get like 10 four stars and 14 three stars but instead you ended up getting three five stars and 24 stars and one three star I mean that that's a much bigger difference than sign stealing and so I think like when it comes to I mean even with recruiting violations it's interesting because like giving a guy a shirt which is one of the things that's like Michigan's accused of here that you know that does that compare to giving a guy a bag of cash which has long been the thing or what nil like the difference between what nil was supposed to be and obviously you know what it's supposed to be you know uh Justin but like the difference between what it's supposed to be and what it kind of has become like that's that that you know if if you're if you're operating with this like yeah and I here's $100,000 or here's a now it's actually that's like a low end like here's a million bucks you know just uh keep doing what you're doing you know like that's that plays a much bigger Factor because if you have like a game changer you know you know a guy that you know some let me put it this way people love to uh to act with in the aftermath of the game against TCU like because Sunny Dy said oh we KN you know we changed our signs LOL they didn't like their signs were still figured out in that game right Jesse Minter had things dialed up in that game there were so many times that Max Dugen was halfway to the ground and he got rid of the football ends up in Quinton Johnson's hands touchdown right like you still have to be able to execute and the the better players you have one way or the other I mean Max Dugen wasn't like a five star but the better players you have that's going to play a much bigger difference so I think that's that's the best way that I can put that so I wanted to make this point real quick so Isaiah it sounds like you know we've seen the before and after 2021 graphic you know at Naim shout out Tren Jones left his edit on that uh graphic but it sounds like Michigan really just got modern you know they went from Don Brown Running Man 90% of the time and you know he's the one signaling in the calls there's only so many things you can do with your hands uh you know with with signaling and coverages so they went to be a little bit more um diverse in in their signs and their coverages and the fact that they had um an NFL defensive coordinator now head coach and then another NFL defensive coordinator uh seems like they just leveled the field and then they won the championship so it's just interesting to uh think about it from that perspective yeah I I wrote a long piece on it because people like you know what changed between 2020 and 2021 I'm like well they broomed the entire defensive staff they broomed half of the offensive staff they brought in all these different guys they had a new starting quarterback that was more just took care of the football better the the offensive line took a big step up in terms of its toughness under Chiron Moore instead of Ed Warner Ed Warner was actually pretty good but they took like a big step forward you've got a had a defensive coordinator who's now an NFL head coach like he didn't get the NFL head coaching job because he knew other teams signs because they don't do signs in the NFL like maybe the scheme has a little something to do with it he was running a team at Michigan that was that obviously was led by wink Martell is the now the defensive coordinator at the time in coming out of 2020 wink marale was considered to be the best defensive coordinator in college football um so you basically had a Confluence of players who were able to run schemes that were better suited for the defense for their skill set an offense that finally had like an actual identity a quarterback that wasn't injured like Shay Patterson was in 2019 um and like a coaching staff that just was a lot more diverse and good at what they did there were a ton of changes um and on top of it you had players that were high-end players that were sick of losing Aiden Hutchinson ends up being the number two pick like if it was all because of the signs he would be struggling in the NFL right now which he's not so I mean there's just plenty of evidence that goes beyond anecdotal that kind of shows you what that the changes that like yeah sure sign stealing was part of it modernizing was part of it but so were like 18 other things I I agree I mean there there's just a lot more to everything than than just just this uh although of course um you know our Rivals want to want to hyperfocus on this um so Isaiah I know you got to go um so I appreciate you uh for jumping on with us here um quickly and going I'm looking forward to seeing your beautiful face on the Netflix stock tomorrow too it was awesome getting to just break down the entire roster of the team really get just delving into the football position by position um think I shed a lot of light on that I think we are all a lot smarter I can't believe that you you leaked the starting quarterback Isaiah that is so bold of you and we appreciate it who would have thought that Kenneth Grant was switching over from defensive tackle to be the S the the guy throwing the football around but you know what we've seen him move hard to take now we have I like it I like it uh well we'll have you on again soon where we actually can talk about some football because football is happening this Saturday here um so but we know you gotta run so we appreciate you Isaiah hle tell them real quick where everybody can find you and go read your stuff well written word is at Wolverines wire. usatoday.com uh I'm literally the only one there now uh so it's just me anything you get there is pretty much me or like some AI Things are Written I guess um for I don't not AI but like outside Outlets I guess uh and locked on Wolverines podcast part of the locked on podcast Network awesome man thank you so much for coming on