SAVAGE! Obama Hits Trump Where it HURTS! Speechwriter Tells All! (w/ Jon Favreau) | Bulwark Podcast

Intro there's the childish nicknames the crazy conspiracy theories this weird obsession with crowd sizes I know you worked on the speech was that like was that your ad or um I was stunned that he did that the one thing that Obama kept adding back into the speech was the crowds siiz thing and I was like I'm it's not like I didn't want to I didn't want to take it out just because it was like I didn't like it but I was just like oh you know we're trying to get it tight and for Time stuff like that and in the last round of edits he put it back in but I was like okay maybe he's just this is like a funny thing that he wants to joke about and then when I was watching the speech from the floor and saw him do that I was like oh my gosh this is wow very unlike [Music] him hello welcome to the B podcast I'm your host Tim Miller I'm pumped to be here today with uh Barack Obama's former head speech writer co-author of the book democracy or else how to save America in 10 easy steps and the host of a niche political podcast you may have heard of pod damn Amer excuse me pod save America John favro what's happening my man hey man thanks for having me on big fan longtime listener yeah we understand you're especially a fan of Mondays with Bill Crystal and that you're just like waiting for the bill Crystal apps to drop that's what I've heard I do all the ball work podcasts I'm a subscriber I listen to you every day I listen to the next level this is getting too much all right the bill Crystal compliments were good enough I'm getting uncomfortable now um we have something else in common uh and I want to start here uh I think at least um and and I'm gonna borrow a few words from uh both Barack Obama your former boss in last night's speech and the colonel in Boogie kns I don't know if he was intentionally making a reference to the colonel and Boogie kns when he said this but you know I'm a man that likes Simple Pleasures I like butter in my ass and lollipops in my Speeches from Last Night’s DNC mouth and a card game with friends and Convention speeches that deliver a [ __ ] message that helps the nominee win that's all I'm looking for a simple pleasure and it seems like we got that we did get that we did get that like I that's nice it's just I don't I feel like that shouldn't be hard for some reason it is hard for people I don't understand it's like there's you've got to go into these things with the goal in mind what is your goal right like first of all a every speech need who's the audience and what's the goal right yeah and at the Democratic Convention the audience is anyone who hasn't made up their mind yet and the goal is to elect Harris I've got interrupt though I've got interrupt now you're the professional speech writer who's had success unlike me but I've been told that actually the goal was to make people that are obsessive Pon sa American America listeners and members of the Pod save America plus Discord very happy is that not the goal of the speeches isn't it not to appeal to like Democratic super fans because I was told I was told that was the goal is that wrong I will say fortunately our listeners and our community they get the they get the assignment they they unlike unlike Rand unlike Rand on Twitter uh yeah no they they get the assignment but yes no that is the the goal is the goal is not to uh send a thrill up the leg of people who are already going to vote for k Harris and Tim Walls and go out and volunteer for okay but they did manage to do both last night which is pretty good I I want to talk about Doug and your former boss and Michelle um but just like big picture since you're you know this is your business um uh one of these or it was your business one of these guys calls you you're sitting down you have a blank piece of paper in front of you like what really are you trying to to get AC like what's the main objective here like because there a couple potential objectives right like building up com tearing down Trump having something that goes viral on Tik Tok being nice to current president I don't you know there are many different theories on what you could do what what what what's your main objective I mean it depends on on who you are who the speaker is and you know what the context of the race is like I do think that if it was still Biden Trump then Biden's job Thursday night would be much different than kamla's job because kamla has the added uh need to Define herself reintroduce herself to the country talk about her plan more right and Biden probably would have just you know just kicked the [ __ ] out of trump for 50 minutes um but uh I think I was looking back at when we were working on Obama speech I was looking back at the 2008 convention speech that he gave and when you're the yeah in Denver when you're the nominee there's like a lot of business to get done you the things you just mentioned like you have to Define yourself talk about your plans talk about your opponent and it it can be very stateof the Union esque in the worst possible way um unless you also make sure that it is a tight speech and it has enough rhetoric to like get people in the crowd going and also like inspire people at home so there's like a lot of different objectives in these speeches which is why I think they are quite difficult to write they're probably I think the hardest speeches to write after the State of the Union Address which is just a monster to write and not that fun and never a great speech at all um but yeah so those are the those are the objectives and you're you're trying to persuade people the point of every single speech is persuasion you are trying to get people to take an action they otherwise wouldn't have taken that is like the the the main purpose of a speech yeah um I Michelle Obama’s Speech thought that Michelle did that the best last night um yeah and yeah it was not State of the Union at all um she she understood the assignment that's our theme of the of the day I guess understanding the assignment um and the number one assignment for her um in addition to just kind of pulling on the heartstrings and and having the speech had a little depth it wasn't political P right it was like you could tell she was feeling it talking about her mother talking about this grief we all feel about like the country at sometimes and like how you can get down about that I like that she started with that about kamla's mother and and the urging to do something but like her main job was to build up the Nomine of the party and I think that she did it very well and I noticed this morning on her social media there's only one clip from her speech last night and I want to play it KLA Harris is more than ready for this moment she is one of the most qualified people ever to seek the office of the presidency [Music] and she is one of the most dignified a tribute to her mother to my mother and to your mother too the embodiment of the stories we tell ourselves about this country her story is your story it's my story it's the story of the vast majority of Americans trying to build a better life look kamla knows like we do that regardless of where you come from what you look like who you love how you worship or what's in your bank account we all deserve the opportunity to build a decent life all of our contributions deserve to be accepted and valued because no one has a monopoly on what it means to be an American no one damn yeah pretty good John it's good stuff look she I think one of the reasons she is an incredibly effective speaker is uh incredibly effective speaker in politics is because she hates politics she genuinely doesn't like politics and so when she speaks in a political setting it is because she feels in her gut so strongly that it is important to do so and she also like she has become uh close with kamla they've become like good friends over the last several years and so I think she really she really feels this one but I think what she was trying to do there is Donald Trump Maga their whole thing is to otherize people um to say that like we are we're real and you know Obama hit this in his speech as well like we're Real Americans and anyone who doesn't support us they are either not from here or not like us or different or you should be suspicious of them and what both of the Obamas have always tried to do and what Michelle did incredibly effectively there is to say no no no no no we're we're closly we're more closely connected to the American story than he is right she has this line about um the affirmative action of generational wealth which I thought was alltime convention line so good and and but in in that whole riff she sort of painted Trump as this guy who's like he's had everything handed to him like when he breaks the rules he gets away with it he gets to ride up the escalator when he faces a big Challenge and like the rest of us where you're black white poor middle class wherever you're from in the country like we don't get to do that we have to work hard so it's just it's like a fusion of economic populism and patriotism which I think is incredibly effective and appealing to the broadest part of the electorate yeah the affirmative action of generational wealth is like a align that people are going to be stealing for a long time and it's also so good because it makes Trump so small yeah she just made him so small you know I I I in the speech last night right she mentions him one time she mentions him one time but like just the like the subtle digs like throughout I mean that is something that I've been noticing throughout the convention but also for the last however many years is like there is this tendency for anti-trump politicians to just go after like the cheapest anti-trump Applause line yes and they can get like pretty nasty and they and there's this like the nastier you get you know the the more anti-trump you are and that's how you like burnish your credentials as a as a Democrat or an anti-trump politician and you know they go back and they find quotes that he said and things that only like terminally online people like us remember about Trump and none of that to me is as devastating to Trump as what Michelle Obama did last night barely mentioning his name because what she did is she placed him outside of the American story and outside of the values we all hold dear as a country and she also was talking about him without talking about him directly which is also you know a pet peeve I have about politics and political speeches is like everyone has sort of lost the art of subtlety yeah you know it's like we're just like hammering people over the head yeah right just got it we got it Trump it's just like there's a there's a way to do it that is devastating and without being too obvious you know yeah and back to the com and I just think that contrast of she's tearing him down making him feel small like he got where he was because he had that escalator up the mountain which which you know which regular people don't get he got where he was because the affirmative action of generational wealth he might be realizing that he's applying for a black job like all that stuff just like kind of diminishes him and then the comma part of her remarks uh and and it is the thing that I felt has been the most missing for maybe every I I missed some of the speakers so maybe there have been some of the more personal some of the smaller speakers but a lot of the politician speakers let's just put it like that as they've been talking about kamla in the way that I would talk about her like I've met her one time you know what I mean like I don't I just I don't know I can't speak to her leadership traits right besides what I see on TV Etc and presumably a lot of these people like nowh right and and the American people don't know her yet and so like when you're talking about how this convention is different from a speechwriting standpoint then what a Biden convention would be it's like you have this huge opportunity to introduce her to tell new things about her and and I felt like Michelle did that by talking about her origin story and her mother and how she gets inspired by her mother and then how we've seen that reflected in her life you know and I think that was the building her up while making Trump feel small no it's incredibly important to do that I mean and you know Obama tried to do it a few times in his speech to just like personal connections and not just like I know her and she's great but like people who've worked with her um we interviewed uh lanso Butler uh senator from California um who was very close to Kamala known her for 15 years advised her in 2020 on pod Safe America and that's like like most of my questions to her were just like what's she like what should the country know about her that we don't already know because we've never been in a situation before like this where the Democratic nominee for president was just you know a couple months to go is is welln as a vice president but like not welln in terms of like their values what they've done stories about them Etc it should yeah it should be one of the main goals of the whole convention yes you know I'm sure I mean KLA will do that for sure on Thursday night I know she'll talk like a lot about her story um and and well I'm sure we'll talk about Doug Doug did that very well too and some of the people who've known her personally but you're right like I I thought on Monday night with Biden would at least tell some stories about like working with her in the White House over the last four years I was surprised that he didn't do that yeah you're just looking for you know I um I went to uh went to a funeral recently and where the funeral was given by like the pastor or the eulogy was given by the pastor you know and like you could tell the pastor didn't really know the person and I'm like that's not the EOG I want you obviously this is the opposite of that it's not EOG it's a buildup I don't want a pastor that doesn't know her that just like going through a checklist like good family person you know like give me some color let me learn about her and Doug just did that so great last night I mean Doug Emhoff’s Speech you could have imagined a Doug speech that was you know about right I don't know his fight against anti-Semitism which is important you know you can imagineit about like that but he was just like no I'm gonna tell about our our first date I like that I had heard I think someone somewhere was previewing before Doug speech that it was going to be like an entire speech about anti-Semitism and again I agree that's important I'm like really glad he's taking that on um but I was like the whole point of his speech has to be to personalize her you know and he did it in such a Charming humble way and also I else I think that you know part of trump shtick is this you know [ __ ] awful version of masculinity and I think between Doug and Tim Walls it's like we're seeing the cycle sort of this version of masculinity that's like nice guys who are like okay being plus ones to their like really strong successful wives which is just like such a great image to project and a good way to counter Trump's [ __ ] yeah I also just think that again just because of like the shallow knowledge a lot of people have about kamla and even I am an obsessive if could you asked me last week like when did Doug and K get together like how old were the kids you know like what was and I I I think I would have been like I'm not sure actually you know what I mean so like there was I I think that it was really um you know a nice way to paint a story of her like comes into this family like does a mom roll is supportive is taking calls from Ella like they're already teenagers but like you know that it still you know happens in a way that is that like shows it's somebody who actually like cares about other people and stuff you know what I mean like I just thought that was a nice way into her story that again like is what you should be doing at a con like that's cool like now we know that about her you know yep it's the whole point that's the whole point okay we're going to keep going on this on this theme because Barack Obama mostly um stuck to the Barack Obama’s Hand Gesture whole point of the kind vention with a little a little bonus little cherry on top for me um so let's uh let's take a listen to uh to Brock's comments about Donald Trump the people who will decide this election are asking a very simple question who will fight for me who's thinking about my future about my children's future about our future together one thing is for certain Donald Trump is not losing sleep over that question got to put on that makeup here's a 78-year-old billionaire who has not stopped whining about his problem since he wrote down his golden escalator 9 years ago it has been a constant stream of of gripes and grievances that that's actually been getting worse now that he's afraid of losing to K there's the childish nicknames the crazy conspiracy theories this weird obsession with crowd sizes yeah now the crowd starts to cheer very loudly there it might not it might not fully take on audio the video people notice the loud cheer happens when he does what appears to be a small [ __ ] sign after he talks about the small crowd sizes what was that I know you worked on the speech was that like was that your ad or um I was stunned that he did that like I just but it's so it it's funny I'll give you a little of the the backstory you know we've been go we've been going through the the Trump section what he's gonna say about Trump and he he really like most of that was led by him that's like how he wanted to frame it yeah and we had like a couple different examples in there of like Trump's whining um for a while we had like 2 a.m. social media tie raids and like that was cut for time and the one thing that Obama kept adding back into the speech was the crowd siiz thing and I was like I it's not like I didn't want to I didn't want to take it out just because it was like I didn't like it but I was just like oh you know we're trying to get it tight and for Time stuff like that and in the last round of edits he put it back in and um but but I was like okay maybe he's just this is like a funny thing that he wants to joke about and then when I was watching the speech from the floor and saw him do that I was like oh my gosh this is wow very unlike him I mean was it do we think that was part of the plan then or was just kind of in the moment I don't know I could see myself in the moment he really he kind of he hammed it up though is the is all the the argument against it being an accident is it kind of like does the small the hands get smaller and smaller then he kind of pauses and looks at his small hands for a second so I will tell you that if it was a planned thing it was planned only in his mind but he does that sometimes with speeches where he did this with the um the the eulogy and much more serious note when he's saying Amazing Grace and uh he didn't tell you all he was gonna sing no he had said something on the way there he was like I might sing if the mood strikes me but I don't know I don't think so and then when he whenever he's like into a speech and he's like feeling the crowd then he hams it up right or he he does something that he wasn't expected to do so I think that's what happened um what about just any like other you know kind of working on speeches in the past kind of just a little guys locker room talk any history of like Cho jokes or anything else that kind of was cut and you like talk about Lindsey Graham's manhood at any point in private or is this honestly nothing else he's not usually he's just not usually like that he doesn't make those dick Joke Man no not at all um well I liked it um I know that you know we're supposed to be serious there's the the thing that I've always uh liked about Obama speeches even when I was um opposing him and frankly liked it and was jealous of is he's good at the high low you know and that you want that in a speech right like you do like there you do not have to make a choice between appealing to people's better angels and making fun of [ __ ] you can do both right you know and he he very much approached this from the beginning um we had talked about it and we sort of both came to the same conclusion which is which is what a lot of people at the convention have uh Michelle everyone else was like let's let's make fun of the guy you know yeah like he's full of [ __ ] he's whiny and complaining like why are we like trying to put him up there as this like scary strong man like we should we should take him down a few pigs um and so he had wanted to do that from the beginning I thought the uh the very buw workk part of the spech oh yeah okay well great thank you you we were gonna get there we were gonna get there let's just uh I have one clip I the last Barack Obama on Unity the last probably eight minutes like could have been a monologue that we just post as a bonus episode of the bwar podcast um this kind of appeal to you know uh uh caring about people on the other side about these fundamental values that we all share that that you know whether you have a grandfather an uncle that is from a red state that worked hard and that he also shares those values and they might be from Mega and they might say some racist things but like fundamentally we're a better people than this and we can I was just like oh man this could be a bill Crystal morning shots um so anyway we have one clip from it let's listen we don't trust each other as much because we don't take the time to know each other and in that space between us politicians and algorithms teach us to caricature each other and troll each other and fear each other but here's the good news Chicago all across America in big cities and small towns away from all the noise the ties that bind us together are still there we still coach little league and look out for our elderly Neighbors we still feed the hungry in churches and mosques and synagogues and temples we share the same Pride when our Olympic athletes compete for the gold because because the vast majority of us do not want to live in a country that's bitter and divided we want something better we want a be better we want to be better yeah that's right that's the way to go to Trump right yes I mean I think there is this um sort of superficial analysis of Obama's uh political philosophy which is like Hopey and changy and unity and we're all going to get along and you know Michelle always got [ __ ] for like when they go low we go high and I've it always drives me crazy because I think it's all misunderstood and what he was saying last night is like yeah we're going to disagree we may we may not solve those disagreements but it was really a defense of like small L liberalism not in the not in the political partisan sense and it's this idea that like he has been talking a lot over the last year or so about pluralism um he's wanted to give a pluralism speech which everyone was like okay maybe we not we maybe we don't call it the pluralism speech but we get the concept I don't we we'd be happy to host okay we' be happy to co- sponsor that with him if he wants to do a pluralism speech uh let's do it I'll I'll I'll be in the front row you it's this you know the idea that like in a country of like 300 million plus people like whoever whichever side wins the other side's not going away like we're going to have to learn to live together and like the whole point of democracy is is is not to all come to an agreement but it's also not to all like be at War all the time like Donald Trump wants us to be yes and his version of the Republican party like it it's and so we have to figure out a way to disagree and you know what he said in that speech is that's not just like on Republicans right like that's on us too and he talked about how like from across the political Spectrum we've come to think that like winning is about like scolding people or shaming people or uh out yelling the other side and he even uses the examples of like you know you have a a grandmother or an uncle or a cousin who says something that's like off and you you give you give them Grace you don't yell at them for that and like why do we do that to strangers on social media why do we do that to other people in politics right it's and it is the way going back to the purpose what's who are you talking to like yes like it is the way to get at some of these soft PE I I know that there may some progressives or liberals that like don't think these people exist but there are like there are good people that live in the suburbs live in the country that are traditionally conservative or republican that get somewhere in their gut that Donald Trump is bad and that we're better than him and that they just want to feel heard right and they just like need a nudge to just be like yep you know okay I'm ready I'm not we're not going back like might not be a Democrat now but like at least the people that I heard from at this convention Tim Walls and KLA Harris and and the Obamas like recognized are like I have value and we might disagree on some policies and maybe I'll vote for whoever the hell you know next time around right like that there those people exist and like they should be and and this is a soft way to speak to them by like welcoming them rather than being like don't you vote for that bigot well you know it's it's it's that crowd right this is like the this is the bwork crowd this is uh this is Sarah's voters that she's talking to in the focus groups but it's also and I I think a lot of Democrats and progressives might not understand this but it's the the very voters that that Biden was having problems with and the Democrats have been having problems with now over the last several years which are younger black and brown voters who are sporadic voters so once in a while they vote sometimes they don't and their feeling is they're non ideological and they're just like sick of politics they think it's like a lot of noise and a lot of people just like yelling at each other all the time and they're not looking for Kumbaya they're just looking for like well why do I care about politics if it doesn't matter to my life and all these all these [ __ ] are just like on TV in it for themselves yelling at each other all the time whining about [ __ ] all the time and like I don't know the way these people live their lives is they try to get along with their neighbors and their colleagues and what they want is just like a government that will I don't know protect them help them live a better life keep them safe give them a chance that's all that's all people want and so that is a that is a feeling that maybe both both maybe right leaning Independents have but also a lot of these younger voters and and voters of color who just are not showing up in every single election I thought that Michelle spoke to that group as well very strongly uh you know just about this it's it's an empowering her message was empowering and practical that's what they want like not [ __ ] don't [ __ ] me like I want to feel like this is worth doing and that that you know and that and that it's worth doing for me in particular as a young black person or young brown person one just since you mentioned it on Obama's uh small L liberal speech I liked this um from uh from shika who uh started the unpopular uh substack um who's friend of the Pod um obviously uh he she wrote this Barack Obama speech is the most Enlightenment liberalism statement I've heard in a long time he hit every fundamental note equal dignity for all pluralism Toleration for those with different Lifestyles and values freedom justice and compassion for political opponents that it is is noteworthy because there has been a little bit of like loss of that Northstar among some on the left right like this in in favor of focusing more on like advancing specific Progressive ends versus you know focusing on kind of respect for fundamental values and so it's I think that's why it's noteworthy for him to like really lean in on it yeah I mean look it's also been a a hobby horse of mine for the the last several years and so you're saying you put that in there well no it's this is what's weird about you Barry just sitting around like going through some Enlightenment doing going through your Hume you know looking for a quote I will tell you this is what's weird about like knowing him for so long and writing for him since like 2005 is he and I can go like months and months without talking to each other and then when we do we suddenly both have like the same gripes about politics we just like I I learn to like not like write like him but think like him so it's like who I am now but one thing that he did in a couple places was you know he says like uh we got to respect people who don't look like us who don't pray like we do who which gets all the Liberals in progressives clapping who don't come from where we come right like they all like that and who don't believe the same things that we do about politics and to him and to what democracy should be that's all the same thing like if we if we as progressives want to make sure that um we treat people equally based on race and gender and sexual orientation and sexual identity then we also have to treat people the same based on political identity like that's the whole point of democracy you have to include that oh man the weird is getting so bull workk pilled over here right now it's unbelievable we're on buw workk by aggro In This podcast I've never been so effusive about Barack Obama I don't know I don't know what's happening right now um there's one other thing we have to talk about while we're just praising Barack Obama didn't get cut for time was noticing that you're trying trying to you're trying to narrow things down you know keep it sharp keep it favian uh but a lengthy aside about Barack Obama coming out as a yimi was included and I I was cheering I was standing up on my couch build more houses get rid of regulations that are stopping people from building I love that what was why was that in there that's great from from the beginning one of the first things he said that he wanted to make that was in there he didn't say Yim but he was um that you know that was the sometimes sometimes he sounds like me sometimes he just sounds like Ezra Klein right and he was well I do think the way that say we should give Jerusalem demp say some love I think he's been reading the Atlantic I'm telling you I think he's been reading Jerusalem maybe probably listening to Ezra everyone's listening to Ezra apparently according to no that that whole section was him wanting to say look we and he's done this in speeches when he was a nominee which is like we can't just be tied to like old ideas of the past and also think that we like as Democrats and liberals and progressives like we have a monopoly on all the ideas and that you know we've never done anything wrong and he you know originally he went on this whole thing about like it's a lot of democratic cities that are that have zoning laws and I was like we're not writing we're not writing the word we're not writing zoning laws in the speech oh okay oh that was a bad cut can I get the draft on that can we leak can we leak the draft on that to the newsletter for this week just so we know we know out there he's there he's there yeah and uh I know I know some mismanagement in Democratic cities yeah oh boy love it and I love it and I were on the floor Chris Matthews over here love it and I were on the floor when he said that and we started a yimi chant actually trying how' that go yeah well we were near the California delegation and they didn't want to keep going um that is good all right so for looking forward we've got two knights left um we've got walls and kininger and and KLA Harris I'm sure there'll be a couple other speakers that matter but you know those are the key three um Bill Clinton’s Speech Tonight don't don't forget Bill Clinton uh why why are we doing this can we just whisper about this why is Bill Clinton talking couldn't they have joined talked I kind of thought that maybe this was the year where we finally like you know and I don't want to not honor him I don't but how about like the OS instead of talking you know how the Oscars you get a Lifetime Achievement Award there's like a montage it's like the guy from hope we go up there and then he gets to walk out on stage everybody cheers for him and then he says thank you and then he leaves like that's like that would be nice I uh one thing about this convention is you can tell that most of it was planned when Biden was going to be the nominee yeah and when KLA took over I think that you know they they wanted to like reshape the convention In Her Image but I think there's some some things that they just couldn't like part of the problem with all of these politicians going up there and going over time and pushing everyone out of prime time I think it's just like oh they had been invited and what are you g to do uninvite them which I maybe but um I I would bet that's why and and Bill Clinton does in his speeches he does something that the Obamas don't do that a lot of other speakers don't do which he he explains things well he like he makes arguments and knocks down arguments from the other side in a really easy to understand way I think the key tonight that I'm watching for is like H Bill Clinton cannot knock Tim Walls out of prime time because his speech is like an hour long all right so walls just really quick rapid fire what do you what do you want what do you want from walls what are you hoping that he Tim Walz’s Speech Tonight does what's his main goal I mean I think everything that uh has made people love Tim wall so far right like I think he should talk about his you know he's going to talk about coaching he's going to talk about Minnesota he's going to talk about like rural America right I think he's also going to build up kamla like again understanding the assignment I think he'll do that quite well and I heard you guys talking about this and JVL talking about this but it's the same reason I love Tim Walls which is he comes from this the dfl Minnesota tradition and it is a different brand of democratic politics and liberalism that is much more focused on sort of economic populism and Community than it is on aot lot of the identity politics that we we sometimes get I do like that um and I hope um and I think that he can continue that theme I the the where Tim Walls and just slowly but surely I'm I'm getting there it's it's you know wasn't immediate so it's happening slowly but surely one foot at a Time betto's full throated endorsement he was he was really yeah I was like okay I must be missing something here I was like if if betto's this excited there's got to be something I'm missing but uh the thing I've liked about walls um the or the thing that I've like the best of all of his rhetoric which I hope he includes is um like how he diminishes Trump in in a different way than Michelle but it's the same objective which is like can you imagine this guy working a having a blizzard like can you imagine this guy going on a raft you know I like that like just like be like a guy from Mano who like likes to do Mano stuff and make fun of the fact that like Donald Trump doesn't doesn't know anything about that I like that that's good yeah Michelle Obama and Tim Walls in different ways are like focus group participants talking about Donald Trump I mean literally in in Brock Obama's case when he did the leaf blower line the the the Donald Trump thought that was weak line I was I was trying to keep positive I thought the leaf blower thing was my was it didn't land he even he even knew it didn't land he like he paused and he was just like nope and then it kept moving I don't think the leaf blow is going to make it onto the stum in the fall it came from I think he got it from um axel Rod's been saying it and the reason that ax Rod's been saying it and ax Rod said this has said this on TV so it's not a secret but it came from an Obama Trump voter in a focus group really yes annoying guy it does you've seen all these focus groups too I had been surprised over the last year how many complaints about Trump center around just the exhaustion right it's just like I am just so tired of this guy he's so annoying this is like Tim wells's like can you imagine Thanksgiving dinner with this guy or I don't think he says that about Trump but he says like can't we have G like imagine Thanksgiving dinner after he's gone like it'll just be like a weight off everybody's shoulders I like that yes and it is this like he's just so annoying and in our faces all the time so yeah I think W will do that um all right what about kamla okay blank page how much because I let me say this about kamla um in her speeches I'm going Kamala Harris’s Speech on Thursday show what your thought is I don't think we've talked about this her her stump since she has ascended to the Nom become the presumptive nominee has been really tight and really good like just Freedom like patriotism a little bit of her story contrast with Trump in and out 20 minutes um and it's been it's been good yeah she has a line or two textbook her kickoff speech in 2019 was in Oakland and so I I went there um with Tois and uh and it was like it was State of the Union I know that's like our Shand for bad right but it was she she felt like she was trying to appeal to every part of the democratic Coalition like here's a little something for the Beres and here's a little something for the identity politics Crow here's a little economic populism and here's some women's stuff and glass ceiling right and it just didn't it didn't land and so and I think that that's going to be the challenge for the speech it's gonna be a little longer than what she's been doing on the stump so anyway I'm wondering how how you take that and what you think that she should focus on first of all I think I think the 20 now that I look back on it with a few years I think the 2020 primary brought out the worst in a lot of those candidates yeah um which is and and it's not usual for except B who was fabulous and he just brought out the worst in all of us not you and me like all of all of the the the the political media class just didn't recognize what they had with honestly I would say Pete Pete was Pete was who he is right yeah Pete Pete hasn't changed at all Pete was true to himself God love him but also like and people like Bernie and Warren who are just like that's who they are right like that's they showed up as who they are is I don't know I think got a little bit off littleit a little bit and because of Bernie right and so like some of them were chasing Bernie some of them were chasing something else and so it became this like competition and I think that she fell into that trap and she's now unburdened from that of course she is uh but she does have a lot of work to do and so like this is the tough part when you are the nominee is like most people will give plot it to some of the other speeches as the best speeches and it's like yeah the reason the other speeches the other speakers in the prime can be better is because they don't have the work to do that you have to do as the nominee like but I I would expect her to um really tell her story talk about her family and then also wrap it in this patriotism that we heard from the Obamas like I think she'll do something similar about her own story and she's got to talk about her record right she's got to highlight the I guess this so this was where I was going next because that's the one thing that I'm kind of like I think if I was cutting stuff from time I just probably wouldn't deal with it just probably would do less I I would talk more about her contrast with Trump and her future vision and you saw our friend our good pal Scott Jennings on CNN last time I don't know if you saw this uh little thing yeah you're not you're not just sitting around Chicago watching CNN postgame analysis you got friends you got envir you got F fans you got to deal with um okay well anyway I I'll tell you what happened on CNN it was was fireworks uh Scott was [ __ ] pissed like Scott is like they don't even talk about the last four years and like how are they going to defend it and like his frustration you could tell that he's you can tell that they're frustrated that like that the Democrats are quote unquote getting away with this and I I think that there's a defense to be had of the of the last four years that that is totally reasonable and that that she should do if necessary but like why if you don't have to I guess is my question uh this is where I'll put my like strictly like polling political strategist hat on yeah please which is I think that she should do it quickly the record stuff and she should highlight the parts of her record that are incredibly popular and a lot so in the Biden Administration that's going to be beating Medicare we beat Medicare we did hell yeah it's gonna be the prescription drugs and some of the more popular elements of the uh the the Biden Administration but then I think like what really Pops in the polling is for work uh that too but even more so when she was attorney general like the housing settlement oh yeah and what she did for homeowners CU Housing is like a number one issue that no one ever talks about and she has a great story to tell on it ex me Barack Obama and Jerusalem Dem say that's it but she will I think she'll highlight like her work as prosecutor her work as da her work as Ag and a couple things from the Obama Administration and then where're then we're out whoo there favs I think you meant Biden Administration there already already a lot of people out there conspiracies about how it's been Obama pulling the strings behind the scenes this whole time with Biden yikes gonna get in trouble for that uh and then she'll go yeah and then I think it'll be her vision and she won't have to get into two that's gonna be on Fox Jessie Waters Jessie Waters hello Jesse I know they Jesse wanders is clipping that right now John favro admits that it was Obama behind the scenes the puppet master was doing it the whole time either either Jesse Waters or uh some some folks in the Biden Administration uh but but yeah no I think but yeah I think uh and she doesn't have to go into like too much detail on policy because she did do her economic speech her policy speech last week so she can sort of like highlight the most popular stuff and move on and then I think that it'll be a lot about values and patriotism and some of the themes that we've heard from the convention you know from some of the best speakers I think that that's right I think that's going to be it okay we have to do it then you just you did it by accident but um we have a couple of conspiracies we have to debunk before we go or or affirm I don't know um last night on Fox News uh uh Brett Bear uh Harris and Walz in Milwaukee Conspiracy Thoeory was reporting uh via one of the Fox news reporters that kamla Harris and Tim walls were in Milwaukee last night not at the convention because Joe Biden is so mad at Barack and Michelle Obama that KLA could not even be in the same room with them for fear of uh in of suffering his wrath and uh and derailing the entire convention do you think that was why she was in Milwaukee last night or do you think it was some different reason than that I am 100% sure that's enough that's why she was like wait a minute I'm sorry you're doubting Fox's sources on this it's just it's I I was extremely impressed considering how Monday night went uh in terms of the timing and pacing that what they did Tuesday night were like the roll call is done California puts her over the top and then they immediately go live to her and Milwaukee at with this big crowd in the place where Trump gave his convention speech that's like a that's just such a move and it's like a real hard thing to pull off and I think that's why they did it uh it's it's that was very David Pluff to me that's a very been on our campaign I'm not gonna give Pluff the the call on that whoever has run an advance over there that was awesome like the timing and it just looked so good in the F serve Forum it was crazy how good it looked and it was packed they the huge Freedom red white and blue signs people with the USA things were back uh uh placards were back in uh in Chicago I mean I was I was ready to kind of fly bald eagle the advance the advance uh teams and and the folks who pulled that off it's incredible incredible to pull that off okay so so we've debunked that conspiracy all right here's here's another one I'm going to read you a quote here um and I I'm not sure if it was from you or not uh but the dam has Conspiracy Theory Favreau Wrote for George Clooney broken we can put our heads in the sand and pray for a miracle in November or we can speak the truth uh it was an important Clarion call a couple months ago from one George Clooney were you the one were you the one that put the I did write that write that I wrote every single word are you ready to come clean on that right now it's time we're we're we're unburdened by the past and you can admit it you were the one the number of inquiries I got about that was so weird I and I I I think it must have come from somewhere and I don't know where I don't know where it came from but I was also might rhyme with SCH um I it made me feel bad for George Clooney because I'm like because it was it was like George can't right dumbass actor and I was like and I I had to explain to every reporter I'm like I've met Clooney a couple times and he is one of the like smartest SEL celebrities about politics like you could he could do a podcast with us and he would know like all the inside he's like terminally online about politics like he gets it all he's very good at this and he's a great writer so yeah so it was not you what you're saying it was not me okay um has have you heard from George since I have not I have not heard from George I don't think I don't think there card game that Barack Obama was mentioning last night kind of you know that that The Simple Pleasures it was has it been you and George and him and Nancy you sitting around doing a little Texas holdom anytime the last with smoking a cigar has that happened recently I will say none of none of us were invited to the Biden family Suite on Monday night um who would be your favorite you you get to hang out with a lot of celebs who who is who is the most impressive celeb political mind that you've met uh political mind you're gonna like let's say that love it just went full Survivor and was like going to be a full-time reality show host and you needed to replace him and and you know the the investors and crooked media were like we need a celeb we need to we need to add a celeb to the mix who are you bring two people who come to mind who really could just like be pod save America host yeah okay John Legend and uh Steven coar coar all right they just fit are we sure are we sure coar could do it are we sure oh my God coar is whenever we've been on the show he a little too Earnest for you guys though you guys have become jaded over the years no he's you know he he's really not that I mean he's like Earnest for the show he has and the position he has on that show like he's on CBS you know it's not like he's goingon to be us but he he knows a ton about politics and is very smart about it very very smart okay all right um lastly last thing I was listening to the uh Donald Trump interview with Theo Von Trump’s Interview with Theo Von on my plane ride up to New York here today I have not heard that yet uh I would I would probably not suffer through it I'm not going to make the the listeners uh We're The Vibes are too high right now you know we're we're just we're kind of just drinking lime out of the coconut right now and we're not gonna make people listen to Donald Trump and theovon talk uh but uh I might do a separate YouTube video on that if people want to go over to YouTube but uh there was one thing that that alarmed me about it uh and that was an ad that Theo read Dio for people who don't know it's kind of like a bro podcaster it's like non-political really um and uh he uh he's from Louisiana uh so I've I've have some mutuals with him so I've been calling him for a while he's like I think his listen he might almost have as many listeners as pod damn America I'm not 100% sure but he has a lot of listeners um and MMA this kind of stuff it's bro pod it's like Joe Rogan just like one level down from Joe Rogan um and a little less political even and I think younger and the ad was for send thee. comom and it's like this is a nonpartisan group for registering voters and I was like what the [ __ ] is that and so I Googled it and it is like a trump front uh that they are running ads on these like bro podcasts to to try to to try to register these kind of non-political young men and so I know that this is you know you were talking about this a little bit with walls and his job tonight but like how what what is how can the Democrats like get in the game on this because it's it's a it's a big red flag for me yeah me too um look I think they're doing everything right so far I think I honestly I think that part of the walls pick was that like I think that as much I I was a I was like maybe we should do Shapiro first as well we're not talking about that we're not going back we're not going back that he's great he's doing a great job govern Pennsylvania but I also think walls is a is a better fit for reaching those young men than than anyone else would have been yeah um I think Barack Obama can do that as well and it's it's very much on Obama's mind um does he want to go on theovon do you want me to help Roker that I think you do pretty well I I you know I think Obama could like go on Rogan I really do why I just think like we have to both walls and Obama should be going on I mean honestly even someone like like Bernie Sanders goes on Rogan and stuff like that like Bernie does do it Bernie's been on Theo he's the only Democrat there's some good people who should reach out I also think that there's a lot in uh project 2025 that I have heard from uh the Bros that I know who are not super political and they'll reach out to me and be like did you see this thing about they want to ban porn you've got some college buddies that are concerned about the porn band they're in their seventh year of their marriage they like like I live in Texas now like my pornh Hub isn't working move to Austin like what the [ __ ] is happening fafs literally things that I hear yeah and and it is I think that the the the side of the Trump GOP that is you know the jdance Mike Johnson you know monitoring his kids porn intake with the app there like that [ __ ] is toxic with these younger men and you know you see like Dave pornoy complain about it once in a while or bar stool right and I do think that like highlighting that from a message perspective highlighting that is going to be important and then the messengers matter as well and you sort of like need guys who are not trying to like out toxic masculinity Trump but to like show a different version of it which is like chill be chill and cool and normal and and not like annoying and scaly you know um but uh and still like be good people right all right well I hate it when I see the magga people do something smart and that send thot.com had me feeling like they were doing something smart so let's do something smart back and get some get some normal chill Democrats on with those guys uh favs wonderful you did a great job last night um even though you didn't do the dick joke uh I did think it was second uh Michelle and and I don't know if that was her or her team or what what how you know who her who's in her little kitchen cabinet but uh whoever it is is better than you uh because her speech was A+ last night uh Barack was pretty good as well um thank you so much for coming on man let's do this again soon thanks for having me man all right we'll see you later that's John fa we'll be back tomorrow with somebody funnier than John favro from the Democratic party and then we'll get back to your never trumpers after that we'll see you all then soon [Music] peace for