Matt Willis: ADHD Diagnosis At Marriage Counselling

Introduction I was drinking using every day and I wasn't turning up and I was disappearing for 4 days I always felt out of place wherever I went I didn't know what to do in any situation or how to contribute and I found a way of doing that by being a bit outrageous when I got the ADHD diagnosis I had this weird grieving period if maybe I'd known this at a younger age I could have not had so much destruction in my wake shame fails when you show it to the light I feel like I'm only just beginning because I'm autistic I think differently and back in 2015 I wanted people to drink differently so I created seed lip the world's first distilled non-alcoholic Spirits I took seed lip from my kitchen to 35 countries and the world's best bars restaurants and retailers and we did it in three and a half years it was wild they're delicious they're intriguing they're these distilled Botanical blends you can just mix with tonic or having in a cocktail you really don't need another sickly horrible mocktail check us out on CP drinks.com or Amazon and let me know what you think our next guest Rose to fame as a member of the chart topping multiplatinum band busted Matt Willis has won a Brit award been crowned king of the jungle and starred in major West End Productions from Flash Dance to Wicked but beyond his impressive career Matt's a powerful voice for mental health addiction and more recently ADHD he's a really top bloke and he's put in a lot of work to understand who he is so I'm excited to share this one with you just a heads up we do touch on addiction and mental health let's get into it let's hear how great minds think Matt's ADHD Diagnosis In Adulthood [Music] differently Matt Willis you were diagnosed ADHD later in life like me why did you go and seek a diagnosis I've been to rehab quite a few times and it been mentioned to me like once at rehab and I kind of like I don't really remember why it was very early stag they asked me about ADHD and I was like what and I kind of just thought you know there was another word for lazy I'd listened to Joe Rogan quite a lot and like early Joe Rogan stuff he was just quite dismissive of that so I was like and I believed everything he said and then I think what happened was was that me and my wife were going through some problems in our marriage and we were kind of like coming up against it and it was kind of we we both knew that we needed to do something about it and so we went to marriage counseling and we found this incredible woman who is a great marriage counselor and relationship counselor and we started going to her and and we went to her with a with a few big issues that were happening at the moment I went there thinking that this is all about her you know kind of like this is because she doesn't doesn't want this and I want this and you know and she went there with valid like reasons of my destruction you know that is causing problems you know and I was here's the list and then she the the marriage counselor said I want you to go and speak to someone because I think you might want to be assessed for ADHD and I was just like whoa whoa whoa you know don't make this about me you know this is about us I was quite annoyed at that because I was like oh no don't make you know I'm already the drug addict you know I can't be the drug addict with something else going on I'm not the only problem yeah I'm not the only problem and it can all be my you know so I went to meet the guy you know and it was like I had to wait for ages to go and then we kind of went through this very long annoying thing of getting a diagnosis which is like really quite laborious and kind of quite for someone with ADHD they like fill out all these forms you know I'm like dude you know like now I know like why I had such a repulsion to that kind of like stuff you know but really once I started to do these forms I was like oh oh I can see a repetitive kind of like very very likely very likely very exactly all these kind of things and then I had to get like school reports and things like I didn't have any of that stuff you know I didn't have anything that I could kind of get tangible of that stuff so I got my mom to write a letter me and my mom are close enough but not not really close so she wrote this letter which I just found the the most hardto read attack of me as a child and so I phone my brother kind of like all this kind of [ __ ] that like I did as a kid and what a Nightmare Child I was and kind of like I thought she was just kind of taking finding a moment to to to attack me you know so I kind of took a it personally and then I found my brother about it and was like dude like listen to this and he went yeah mate you know they were brother really close and he was like yeah mate that's all true you were an absolute life and I was like w I didn't realize this you know like did you feel like a nightmare as a kid well I felt different I felt misunderstood I felt like I couldn't really connect with anybody I kind of felt very much separate from everyone you know and I found ways to fit in I found ways to kind of like to kind of like be liked to be to be at one with my peers you know but they were all kind of just coping mechanisms of being inside a really different I did the same and you kind of I guess it's it's not a conscious thing but you become so hyper aware of you know people's body language or etiquette or how do you say stuff how do you fit in what do you wear what because I had no idea yeah yeah I didn't know so I was kind of like I just looking looking help give me clues yeah yeah to yeah sort of go under the radar by just fitting in yeah absolutely but also that made me not go under the radar because sometimes I go so above and beyond thinking that it was the right thing to do that I was actually standing out like a sore thumb you know or causing trouble I was naughty but I wasn't like bad you know and I always had that you know from teachers going if only he'd concentrate if only he'd apply himself you know all this kind of stuff great potential unfortunately fall short all these things you know I kind of constantly got hold throughout my life that was a big light bulb moment for me that kind of that kind of process of finding out about ADHD and then when I went to get the final diagnosis he kind of went it was one of the easiest diagnosis I've ever made everything started to make sense I felt what's the point you know if I've got it I've got it you know like what I'm I'm 30 I was 37 I was like what am I going to do now you I mean like it's not going to change anything I've lived up till now and been all right you know and then I realized have I been all right you know there was this really weird thing and when I when I got the ADHD diagnosis I had this weird grieving period for like about a month you know where I was quite crossed kind of like just if maybe I'd known this you know I could have done something else you know or whatever it was and I had a really good life you know like but I've done Lots made loads of mistakes and up and wrecked people's lives and you know had these kind of like big things that have kind of that have been my fa you know and I was like if maybe I'd known this at a younger age AG I could have not had so much so much destruction in my way and how do you see that correlation then between ADHD and addiction I see it every day you know like especially in certain places that I I go and may or may not be a member of and I just see undiagnosed ADHD in these rooms you know I'm like dude like this is there's something else you might want to look at because there are coping mechanisms within what I've learned through having an ADHD diagnosis which help me with recovery without having a proactive approach to things right so I always have just let happen you know or been the last minute kind of guy you know like and like or things have just built up and built up and built up and then oh my God catastrophe when really I've known this coming for a long time I just haven't dealt with it you know like so having things in place that I now try to do with my life I understand I'm in quite a privileged position to be able to say this but Outsourcing certain parts of my life have been massive to me and I felt like a failure to have to Outsource these things like throughout my life I was no good at anything admin okay anything admin I've always been terrible at but I felt like I should be able to do that so I need to do it and I don't do it and I fall behind or I get in trouble with the tax man or you know all these kind of things in my past you know so Outsourcing these things you know kind of like have been massive for me and going right I'm willing to pay that because because now I don't have to have to deal with the the backlash of what's going to happen if I don't and the thing is that that to me would build up shame and feelings of less than feelings of you're a loser you can't do this you you why are you such an idiot you know and and that's been a big part of my inner story you know this kind of like feeling that I'm secretly thick as you know like hiding it well you know but really I'm stupid and I don't deserve anything cuz I'm I I can't do anything and I'm not grown up and I can't you know all these kind of things that were in me like really inside me that I've had to kind of learn to let go of and go oh I'm not those things how have you let go of those things well I think understanding your brain is is a big thing you know and I think that's the thing about ADHD it's not an excuse which is one thing that I had to really work because it's not just because I'm I'm ADHD doesn't give me any excuse to be a wrecked you know or a nightmare you know like I have to work on that that's same as everyone has to work on any part of their you know just because you have ADHD is not an excuse for your terrible character flaws it doesn't it doesn't make it it doesn't make it okay you know like it m it gives you an understanding of the person you know but it doesn't make certain things okay so you kind of have to and then I have to work on those things that I have to work on what I say and how I say it and when I say it you know like I've got this thing that a friend of mine told me and it's like does this need to be said does this need to be said by you and does this need to be said by you now which love that I I I'm really trying to work on that because I say things like and I'm like that came from a really good place but I've just caused absolute catastrophe with what I've just said you know and like and it did need to be said but maybe not now and not by me I should have talked someone else they could have said that you I mean like those kind of things like these little checklists that I've got which I and it only comes up with big things now because I still blur out stuff which I shouldn't occasionally and I and that they're not the end of the world things like like that I have done in the past when it comes to those big things I do have that checklist and I am able to kind of you know to kind of make a bit of a break between my brain and my mouth sometimes can you give me an example of blurting out the worst things a lot of the time it came from jokes you know like um like for when I was a kid I would say things I thought were funny um and they were funny you know but they were outrageous and also caused harm you know you can't say your mom joke to a teacher you know like you know you can't do that but because you can do it to your friend you can't then do it to you know I couldn't understand the diff difference I just do these things you know which just get me in trouble how ADHD And Socializing much have you learned about how you are in a social situation since being Di diagnosed that's something I'm working on I have massive social anxiety you know like I'm really good in this like like now like a onetoone chat I'm kind of good at you know like give me a an arena for the people and I can chat to them which is bizarre right that's slightly different because I I kind of put on this map from busted facade you know which works you know and he's very ADHD and he kind of gets away with it but um give me a dinner party and it's hell on Earth like I don't know how to act in that thing and I get really weird with sound which is something I never really understood I kind of felt like I couldn't deal with s certain situations for some reason I couldn't understand it but if I'm talking to you and there's lots of other noise I cannot I physically it's overwhelming for me and I kind of get a bit panicky and a bit weird and like um and I'm and I'm and I know that I'm not giving you the attention that I should be and I'm I want to but I can't you know so I find any kind of like room really difficult you know like so if I go to a like my wife I have to go to certain events with her so yeah the BS how was that yeah that hell absolute hell you know like like that's that's my worst case scenario for for many reasons one I feel like a fish out of water to it's like you I don't want to let her down you know everything about it is weird and there's people who do this really well there I feel like all these insecurities come about about with things like that and how do you deal with those I'm working with a therapist quite a lot on myself you know which is like feel very American and weird saying these kind of things but um I'm I don't know why I'm ashamed of that I don't know why that is a part of me that feels like I shouldn't do that I'm working a lot on my relationship with myself you know what I think about myself and where that comes from you know and why this will make me feel that way like specifically things like the baffs I'm doing a lot of work with Emma right now and like TV and stuff and like we with in these places which I'm I don't feel like I'm supposed to be you know so I'm like why do I to feel like that you know like I'm there because I'm doing a job that I got booked for and I'm I'm because they want you because they want me you know like and then I feel like less than and weird and strange you know and it all comes from these kind of weird feelings when I was a kid you know like a lot of that is tied to ADHD I think this kind of like this kind of feeling of being I don't know the thick stupid kid who kind of can't sit still and there a nightmare and no one wants him around or it's being put in the thick Group which I used to call it and really I didn't do anything in that group either you know like so it's like it's like you can't take me out of the classroom cuz I'm disrupted traff you can it's a good idea probably to take me out of the classroom CU I'm distra distracting everyone else put me in a smaller group and then I just do the same in that smaller group you know because I don't want to focus on the work you know all these kind of things kind of feed into this kind of less than feeling of myself you know and um and that's been detrimental to me and it's also made me pick up you know and I've kind of and I've had a real history of drinking these feelings away or using these feelings away and everything I was attracted to was stimulants and it stopped all the kind of noise you know in some weird way es it's an Escape like and and and especially um like for me cocaine really kind of leveled me out in some way you know at the beginning it was like this little po in my pocket you know would make me be someone in the environment which I think people want to speak to you know like then it became I just did too much and was all over the place but there was a moment where it was kind of like doing something for me that I couldn't do for myself you know and it gave me something that I didn't have Within Myself you know then it obviously went too far and I couldn't stop doing it and it you know they say first it giveth then it taketh away you know which was my story again and again and again then I find another one first to give it then it [ __ ] take it away you know so it's was kind of a constant thing with that I was reading about this ADHD In The Prison System studying prisons recently which blew my mind they went into prisons and they got loads of men in this in this Men's prison and they found people with undiagnosed hhd and they treated half of them so 50% of them they treated for the hhd and 50% they didn't and in the treated group there was something like 47 less convictions after they left prison 47% wow you know so these people were less likely to reaffirm were less likely to to do Behavior which gets them imprison you know it was just massive like all these kind of things they were able to form relationships with people all these kind of things you know says a lot about this kind of thing that you know the hidden 20% is going on about right it's like it's like it's like we have this thing that's going on that is not being addressed and it's causing major problems in the world and like without looking at it you're kind of going to keep having these problems going on what I love about you and ADHD and Negative Self Talk relate to so much is that you are a force Matt and sadly that amazing Force you use to hurt yourself historically and now I see that same Force to better yourself and your family and your marriage and Society dude thanks man like that's some that means a lot to me you know because I think that's the thing there's so much of plays on my mind you know I'm like you know like you keep hearing this thing if not you then who I'm like I don't think I should be the one to talk about this but then when I listen to certain people talk about it I don't relate to them you know I wish I could relate to someone who sounded a bit like me you know and kind of felt a bit like me you know so I'm like why shouldn't I be doing this stuff you know I'm 41 now and and I've never felt 41 like I've never felt my age ever I've always felt like a kid you know and I still feel like that but I feel like I'm at a place in my life where I'm not scared to step into these roles you know because without it I'm just stuck in this place where I feel you know so why do you why did you decide to be so open and share so much of your personal life why was that a conscious decision why did you decide to do that I think I made a very conscious decision to do it because there's a thing about being kind of famous for something that people just feel like they can kind of write anything they want and you don't have ownership over that and then people have an opinion of that and it's not necessarily the opinion of me that bothered me it was the opinion of addiction you know I've been in 12-step programs like quite a lot you know and we carry the message onto the recovering addict and I have real problems with that it's all well and good to say I'm going to find carry this message onto this person then they don't take it and it's heartbreaking you know and I've seen miracles happen in those places and I've seen death and destruction happen in those places I am not that person anymore like something's happened to me where I and I thought I would be that person forever like I I understood that there was these ways out I never thought I would get them I always thought I would be the same guy forever or I might get a little bit of clean time but really I want to use and take drugs and drink again and I was going to happen eventually and I'm going to everything up you know that was always my secret thought you know but I don't feel that way anymore and so I'm like I'm and you know I know I'm in a very different position to a lot of people and that like and that's the thing also in some ways in in places that I go I didn't feel like I could I could tell my true story because I didn't think people would be able to relate to me you know because I live a very different life to these people but I am the same as them you know and I wanted a way to show that you know because um I wanted a way to kind of go something needs to happen here like we need to start thinking about these problems differently you know because that the the old ways are not working they're only getting worse and if I can be a small part in other people decide that they can speak up and they can change things then things good will happen I think the more you know I had this woman on podcast called briany Gordon and she said that shame faades when you show it to the light and nothing all the podcasts I've done and all the kind of work I've done nothing has hit me as hard as that sentence because it's true right it's like once I take ownership of that and I kind of it stops having its power over me you know I feel I don't feel anywhere near as as ashamed of myself as I used to you know I used to hold all this [ __ ] in you know like um and I've kind of let go of that in a way you I still I've still done some horrible things and I've done some terrible things to people and I regret that but I don't hold so much resentment towards myself for it and I think that a lot of people can find Freedom in that you know it's not once again it's not an excuse everything happens through action right so without action nothing good happens you have to take own owners ship you have to take action but you don't have to hold yourself completely responsible for every bad thing that you've done and that that's where I feel like the diagnosis assessments self-awareness is is so key because it's so empowering when you know absolutely you go I mean from a medical perspective you go see the doctor you don't know what's wrong with you they diagnose you with something or help you understand what you have then you can go and do something about it if you don't know you can't completely I hear a l lot of sort of negative selft talk Matt what do you think about yourself now I'm learning to think differently about myself I've never really done any work on myself that didn't involve stopping taking drugs you know I've done loads of therapy I've been in loads of group therapy sessions I've been to four different rehabs I've kind of like done so many life stories and done the steps of loads of times and you know all this kind of stuff but everything is about stopping me from using drugs you know like everything is about going in and going I don't want to talk about that what do I do to not take drugs today please you know like and just teach me that you know that's all I've been focused on and recently I've been really focusing on why do I feel like this like why do I why do I act like this why when that happens to me do I res does my behavior represent something else you know and what is that you know and that's that's an ongoing Discovery and I've made some massive ones you know like one was which happened recently which was a feeling of shame that I've had you know for all of my life that I'd never realized I had but it's in everything you know this feeling of less than this feeling of I am this dirty [ __ ] kid that I have felt my whole life you know like and I've carried that on into every job I've had every interaction I've had you know and I'm managing to let go of that you know which is huge you know which is like and I know it sounds a bit I I I don't know if anyone can understand how massive that is for me but it was like it was a huge wake up I was like oh I'm not that kid he's part of me you know he's part of me and I will never and the thing is like I always thought oh I need to get rid of that you know I need to get rid of that kid you know so I'll drink him away use him away I'll you know I'll put on this tuxedo and not be that guy you know whatever that is you know but really he's part of me you know I have to bring him along but he's not mean anymore you know he's just part of you know and it's it's a weird way of looking at things but I think it's um it's been transformative to me you know like this guy I'm working with right now has been so different and so different to any other therapist I've I've wanted I've wanted some kind of like Bully some kind of like you don't understand you need to bully me and tell me what to can do because otherwise I'll manipulate you in some way or lie to you you know this guy's the opposite of that he's beautiful and he's like soft and he's and he's like but he doesn't take any much you know cuz it's all about behavior for me like I don't pick up and use anymore today but you know like I mean I don't do that today but I still act like a dick you know about certain things you know what are the bits of ADHD And Organization ADHD that are challenging for you for your brain organization is the biggest thing in my life like I am so bad at organizing my life and at the moment I have three different Diaries which is a nightmare you know like and that's so I needed to find someone who can help me with that what I want to do is just float around doing what I want you know but unfortunately I can't you know so I'm like how do I do what I want to do you know but be a member of a society that lives like everyone else you know like so I'm I'm trying I find that really difficult you know I find doing the things I don't want to do very hard hard you know I do them you know but I don't I'm not very good at them you know so I'm like those kind of things are really I find really difficult time is a big thing for me I'm time blind I think I can get somewhere in 20 minutes I can't you know I think like I've structured today very within an inch of its life and I'm a bit worried about it I'm kind of letting that stuff go because you know like I I can only do so much you know and I have to trust other people that I work with can understand certain aspects of my life and how does Neurodivergent Parenting that organization piece work with family marriage you got three kids I've got three kids Logistics is a really really important part of my relationship with my wife yeah yeah as unloving as that sounds no that no that you're you're on the money there because that's where we fall down a lot is that stuff like that and it's basic like it's not love you know like there's plenty of Love there but it's like being a grownup is where I struggle you know like on fridge I have a day like a a guide to what the kids need every day of the week for school right so like and and like on Monday they have to go in this PE kit and they have to take this and don't forget the snack and the water ball you know it's a nightmare you know but thank God for this thing on my on my fridge because otherwise they go to school in the wrong thing every day you know if I'm in charge it's a they they they kind of know well we're going to go with this today Dad we don't know what's going to be right you know I I've I spent a year putting their school uniform in their bag just in case they're in the wrong uniform you know because I was like if you're in the wrong uniform just go to the toilet quickly and get changed you know cuz you know it's so bad the ward EXA exactly you know like you know I'll wait in the car with the uniform when you can pop back out you know so it's um or we'll wait in the car we'll see what other kids are wearing you know I've done this a lot you know like so um those kind of things I really struggle with you know I also kind of I have to fall into place with school you know with which I struggle with because I don't agree with it you know Authority I don't agree with authority I don't I find that really hard to deal with you know and especially because it's not me you know like when I was at school I understood I had to kind of abide with the rules and stuff which I fought against but would get me in trouble but this is my kids I don't want them to have to deal with my you know so I'm like I'm trying to kind of and I'm like I don't care if you've done your homework I don't care you know but school do yeah so now I have to tell you to do it yeah you know I'm like GH you know exams our oldest you know she's she's finished her exams she's 11 right Alby and she comes home got some of the exam results she's done really amazingly in some yeah she's not done amazingly in others and I can blur stuff out at times too and so the first thing I blurred out was I don't care ABS yeah yeah I don't care it's exams are a test of how much revision you've done not whether you understand absolutely yeah not whether you're a and you run a company right do you check someone's GCC results when you employ them I don't check I I prefer it if they haven't been to University yeah exactly because I haven't and that's just a there an insecurity of yours oh well then I'm safe if if we all haven't been to University then then that's good we're we're all we're all kind of even yeah I the same thing I um I went back to drama school for two years like a few years ago and um and I did it because I had this chip on my shoulder I didn't that I hadn't done it like because when I I left school at 16 joined the band with James and I had a place in a drama school yes and I didn't go there and I joined the band and I try to be an actor in my spare time right and I'm like when I get jobs or I go to a first day of a play rehearsal I I'm like everyone else has been to rer or something and I'm the pop star they all think less of me you know all this kind of [ __ ] so I was like I know I'll go back to drama school cuz then everyone will respect me you know back to drama school had a pretty weird time cuz I'm 36 or 37 everyone else is 21 you know like some of the weird older guy in the classroom you know having to do romantic scenes with a 20-year-old feeling really awkward and weird about it you know all these kind of things happen and no one gives a yeah like it's if good enough to get the job you're good enough to get the job that's the end of the day you know so that's a big lesson but I think you know with when it comes back to school and stuff I don't know I I I think I I really feel like they push these kids so hard hard and it's not good for them you know I really feel that and I struggle really hard to keep that in you know because I'm like you've been at school it's now half five you're coming back and you got an hour and a half of other to do that's crazy and also you're learning [ __ ] but you're never going to use ever again in your life and when in your life do you have to learn everything yeah you know or be good at everything be good at everything it's like oh you're not very you're you're winning at this but you're not very good at physics let's push your physics up I'm like why yes you know why can't you just like push her in these places that she loves or you know so I find it really hard we had our our middle daughter River her school sports day the other day which like I I want to be there more than anything but I want to be the only person there you want to be the only person I want to be the I don't want any other parents I don't want to talk to anyone else it's tunnel vision where's River and I wanted to win yeah yeah and I not a big fan of this taking part idea and I was standing there you River's running in a race and I'm I'm cheering for her team she's on the yellow team they're in a relay and so I'm calling out the names like go on India go on Alex go on River and and a parent sidles up to me and it's like I don't know if we're allowed to be calling out names and cheering for teams I'm like H sorry what what oh it's you got it's about the taking part it's not about the winning I was like no no it really actually is about the winning I'm sorry yes get out what you put in you know if you're not going to running that no one's going to care you know but if like if you care then care yeah I think you know like so I'm with you dude like I'm with you and it's important to learn winning and losing I had a really um can I tell you something awful about myself right so my kids are all quite um quite into the creative stuff like arts and stuff like drama and stuff they're really into it like and I haven't pushed them into it I think they just see what me and Emma do and they kind of you know they're kind of naturally fell into these things my youngest one did a thing called the Watford Festival right which is like a poetry and drama Festival where they go up on stage and I was like this is awesome she's like seven she's going to get up on stage and do a piece to an audience I'm like this is so scary she got up on stage did this great thing she was so cool you know and she didn't win you know she like she didn't come in the top three so she didn't get a medal but like she did really good right um a parent I was like she's way better than that kid you know but like you know whoever cares you know like apparently it was a poetry reading she overa she acted it so like it was like I say try stopping her you know but she did this thing came outside and another parent had bought them all medals right for like for all the kids in the school they had all got a medal so Trixie came over to me and was like Daddy look I've got a medal and I was like I held my tongue in there and I got in the car and was like that's not okay you know like the other kids got medals cuz they they did that I don't think that's right that you should have got and then I felt terrible cuz I was taking it away from her and I didn't take a medal away I was like but you know that's just like someone's mom that gave you that because they feel like their kid wasn't good enough to get a medal so they should everyone should there's a great book called not everyone gets a trophy and it's more about running teams and business yeah because the the conditioned belief for children if they're growing up where everyone get get surprise and no one gets left out and nobody wins or loses is guess what they take those beliefs into the workplace yeah yeah good luck with that yeah exactly and that's that is absolutely not preparing children and the Next Generation for the real world and adult life yeah I've heard you say that the one thing that you could not wait to be and wanted to be all your life as a father yeah what kind kind a dad are you I love being a dad like I genuinely love it I want nothing more than to hang out with my kids the the thing is it's it changes all the time like it's so weird my eldest is 15 now and I have such cool conversations with her you know like as a and she's so like so much more kind of I don't know it's different because I had such a different childhood to her and I've been so worried right because I'm like I'm like Oh my kids going to be spoiled Posh kids you know because they you know like and I I worried about that I don't know like um I had a weird thing it's like um a weird thing in me about working class roots and all this kind of stuff which is [ __ ] you know it's just about being a good person and I've let go of a lot of that stuff you know but but I did have this weird feeling about it and I speak to my daughter and I'm so proud of the person she is you know and we have really cool chats you know like she's really got a head on her shoulders and she's polite but she tells you what she thinks you know I'm like she's a powerful female and I'm stoked with that you know like my my son is open and emotional and vulnerable you know my little one's a crazy little Powerhouse you know like it's I I love that I can see we're doing a good job and that's really you know and even when it's not right I'm okay with it because I'm like you know the it's the gift of failure right like some times that we can shelter our kids from any kind of like failure whatsoever which I think is really bad like I'm encouraging them to fail that's the reality that things don't always go go brilliantly yeah and bad things happen and failure happens and yeah learning how to deal with that at a young age I think is really important I don't want my kids to go through what I went through but the failure an opportunity to learn and build resilience for the Big Wide World world yeah I I agree with you I think it's really important I think when I was younger I always wanted to be a dad cuz I wanted to do better than I had you know like I was like I was so convinced that this was going to be a certain way and it's not that it's something else and it's basically just being human and like being just a cool person you know and like that is running into problems that is kind of like dealing with which I struggle with school with that because I'm like I don't want you to behave like that you know I don't want you to have to worry about that but I understand you do right now you know so I keep telling them I was like look this is school isn't the world you know once you have to do this probably to 18 right and you just have to deal with it you know like it's like a it's like a job you know you're in a job right now but the prospect is you're going to get a really good job on your 18 so you just have to deal with this kind of like mediocre job right now and get through it and do the best you can in that environment because it will you know once you're out the b world is a brand new thing what learnings and lessons are you are you passing on to your kids about life Matt that's a big question I try maybe too too many you know like um I try to pass on too much like wisdom that I wish I'd had you I mean like and they're so ey rolly with me now you know like if they let me if they hear me say you'll worry less about what people think of you when you realize how seldom they do like my son was like what does that mean I'm like you'll figure out one day I love the ancient proverb that I'm giving yes I do the uh what people think about you is none of your business absolutely unless they choose to tell you exactly so don't waste any time on it completely you know like so all these kind of things I think are important and I wish I'd known them you know whether or not i' taken them on board or not I don't know you know but I think it's about also like everything good that's happened in my life right everything good that's happened is because I've been me you know it's not because I've been I've tried to be like this person that's what I tell them like if you try and be you know like if you're a musician right you try and be Harry Styles you'll be the second best Harry Styles in the world if you work on what you what you have and what you have to bring and you have lots to bring you know and like so much different than anybody else in that room you have a complete unique perspective on on something what is that perspective you know that's what it is I'm like I'm like you you don't have to have an opinion on [ __ ] that is doesn't involve you like that's another thing I'm like I think in today's world we're we're constantly made to be in a camp you know you must be you must have an opinion on this but it must be the right opinion that agrees with everybody otherwise you're going to be cancelled you know that or you must have an opinion on this I don't opinion on any of that [ __ ] and I don't want one you know but like when I do contribute something I want to be a real aspect of myself do you I mean like and I want that to happen with them I'm like whoa whoa whoa whoa what do you really think about that you know like pause for a second because when I ask you this question I want you to think about that you know I don't want you to give me some regurgitated answer that your teachers told you about something I'm like what does that mean to you you know I think that's a really important thing I'm trying to teach them yeah finding their finding their voice right and what impact do you think Fame has had on you as both a parent and a person Dealing With Fame As Part Of Busted person there was a period in my life where it impacted me massively when I was like 19 20 and it first happened it was the most bizarre thing in the world you but I was only but the good thing about that was I was only really famous to busted fans you know like we weren't we became it became something different at some point but for a couple of years I could spot a busted fan walking down the road you know they've got a a loose Tire on their neck and a studded belt and I cross the road you know any girl that looks a bit like Abal LaVine I cross the road you know I mean like these kind of like telltale signs I would go okay don't like certain rules I had don't ever go to a shopping mall on a Saturday you know never go to a bowling alley ever you know like all these kind of things you know and you can kind of live a normal life right and you know I could kind of get away with things you know like and then it changed and then like suddenly everyone knew the band or had an opinion of me because of what the band was and it wasn't positive you know it was a really negative feeling what's the worst thing you've read or someone said about you at that time at one point there was always something there was a thing in the song called beer mat in the bizar column there was like a corner of the paper for like a a good year and there was a picture of my face looking pissed on a beermat you know and it would do beer mat and spotted you know like it' be me falling out of some club or me pissed somewhere I was going to these wanky nightclubs because they gave me free drinks and they let me use drugs in the toilet and they didn't bother me which worked for my lifestyle at the time you know conditions were right conditions were right you know and I took the you know I took that little picture in the sun you know and I didn't really care about it but then like I think it caused a perception of me you know which I then started to live up to a little bit you know and I found that really hard to kind of like differentiate cuz I had this Persona that I'd I was always awkward and weird you know I always felt out of place wherever I went I felt like I didn't I didn't know what to do in any situation or how to contri and I found a way of doing that by being a bit outrageous you know like and people wanted me at places cuz I'd be the one buying the drinks I'd be the one who's always carrying I'd be the one who's going to Stage live off the DJ Box you know I'd be that guy and I liked that guy cuz he kind of felt like an act that I could do you know then I found it hard to ever not be that guy okay you know you know what I mean it became me in a way so this kind of like I always thought it was there was Matt from busted and and there was me who was scared and and and less than and hated himself and then there was this other guy who I could just step into and he was full of confidence and could do crazy [ __ ] you know and then I couldn't differentiate the two you know and whenever I did it was because I wasn't using and I just felt this kind of wave of insecurity and sadness you know so it's kind of um so I just didn't ever want to be that other guy we had kit Harrington on on the show and kit was telling me you know that he goes to his local gym and the staff couple of the staff there call him John yeah yeah because they see him as Jon Snow and not as kit Harrington yeah and it it sounds similar of you getting lost in the world of Matt from busted and that being then yeah the Persona that people think you are I think it was easy for me to step into that kind of role full time you know whereas it's very hard to slay dragons every day you I mean like so you know it must be more difficult in that situation cuz you're like I'm just me you know whereas me I was like I can be that guy forever you know but that guy was really destructive and and and and really not very good for the other guy you know or anybody that loved the other guy busted When Busted Split Up stops splits what are you left with then what happens I kind of saw it coming you know I didn't I didn't not see it coming I wasn't it wasn't like like to James I think James really didn't see it coming James thought we were going to be together forever and like didn't see Charlie leaving I could see that coming you know I'd had chats with him you like I was quite aware of what was going to happen and um and I was terrified but I was kind of told by everyone around me oh don't worry you know you're going to be a solo ITI and you're going to do this I was like oh okay thank god oh I don't actually want to be solo I don't want all the attention on me that feels really weird I don't know if I can be on my own you know but all these kind of things I was like oh forget don't worry about those thoughts you know carry on with the projected plan and then it was actually when that happened I realized I didn't want any over it you know and that was really hard because I was like what do I actually want and I didn't know yeah you know and I was 21 and I made an album which was was like PE some people liked it but it didn't do very well you know and three top 10 hits didn't you yeah yeah but but for for for someone from busty that was a disaster you like it was like like busted everything went to number one like bang bang bang bang bang you know so like to have my first single went to number nine and number 11 all kind it was like oh this is failure and I was like and this is like Cutthroat and to Hest that was all my fault because I wasn't doing what I was supposed to be doing I was drinking using every day and I wasn't turning up and I was disappearing for 4 days and I kind of had people in studios waiting for me and I didn't even know that I was supposed to be there or you know all these kind of things you know um chaos chaos absolutely chaos you know and and and then it all kind of came to a head you know but you know then it was kind of like right I I don't know what to do with my life you know and I don't even know who the I am you know who is Matt Matt's Purpose Now Matt is Matt is is me you know I just I feel very okay with who I am you know like I don't really I don't really feel like I have to act any certain way with anybody or pretend to be anything in any situation all I really want to do is be with my wife and kids if I'm honest you know like work is awesome and I get to do really cool things you know what I love about working with em a lot right now is it's great cuz I get to kind of go around with a person I want to spend all my time with you know we get to work together you know and it's it's really fun so I kind of feel like um I feel comfortable I feel like I've got some to do though I mean like I feel like I'm I feel quite driven you know which is which is weird for me to say because I I always have this kind of have this other voice that kind of goes don't get ideas above your station who the do you think you are sit down little boy you know all this kind of stuff and I have to go shut up you know like I feel like I have things I want to achieve and things I want to do and not because I want to be it's not for Glory it's for something else you know I'm not really sure what that is you know like it's not like um you know I just feel like I want to do you know and I'm okay with that but it seems if I if I play back to you I guess me trying to understand okay what's what's Matt got going on now okay he's got his own podcast busted a back on tour he's been casted in Haren coin's you know legend by the way uh Netflix show you're going to be presenting Love is Blind with Emma you know this is reminding me of of sitting here with Chelsea Grimes going you're a producer a presenter a writer you know all these different things yeah and so I can when you say I've got I've got stuff to do I got more stuff to do you're doing it cuz it's evident yeah that all these things are happening yeah and I feel equipped to do it like I don't feel like overwhelmed I feel like I'm only just beginning you know like I've got lofty goals with like on the menend and stuff like I'm I want to kind of I want to really get this spoken about you know I want to and and I don't necessarily want it to be me you know like um I don't care if it is me you know I like doing what I'm doing but I want other people to pick up this mantle and champion this [ __ ] and kind of go right okay um being vulnerable and talking about these things is really important part of it because I feel I feel like the more stuff we kind of hide or shy away from the less chance other people have to go oh I can do something I'm not what I'm telling myself I am you know and I think that's really powerful and it took someone else to tell me that I've always got my kids in mind yeah of they're going to they're going to grow up they've you know they're going to listen to this show they're going to hear the stories and I think that's you know that's what kind of that's part of I guess without being grandiose on Legacy but I feel a sense of Duty to do that yeah yeah awesome for their future yeah great Wicked that's cool because they they you know whether we like it or not we are the the people they look to you know and the people that they will you know you know I I kind of read something that by the time your kids are 12 their biggest influences are their FR group I was like that I don't want them taking their life advice from them you know like I mean another from another 12year old you know like when it comes to any aspect of life you know like I'm like they don't know what they're doing they don't know what they're doing just as much as you don't you know I don't know everything but I know a bit more than your 12-year old mate you know like they say you're a you're a you're the I can't remember the say you're you're you're the average of the five people you hang around with the most right I wanted to I wanted to lift that up you know so I started to LIF listen to people and absorb things like you know what you're doing now is really important you know like I started to listen to these people who are I never had access to these people in my life you know now I do and now we all do we can go online and find these people who can Inspire us and kind of like go oh they seem to have something that I want you know or something that I need you know what is that I'm going to take a bit of that I'm going to take a bit of this I'm going to listen to that I'm going to open my mind and listen to everything yeah and we have a choice now right like we we've got pick ax of options and choices and we can take action what would you say to people Matt's Message To People Who Think They Might Be ADHD listening watching maybe think they they might be ADHD or they've been listening to you thinking Ah that's oh my God that's how my brain works too what what do you what do you say to those people I mean getting a diagnosis was a big thing for me you know I think if you can go through that process it's really hard to you know like especially now I hear about I was very fortunate to be able to go private and get that done and I understand that doing that in other ways but I know people that have done that and it has that they have gone through the it's just has worked for them but I think even if you can't do that you know like listening to things and finding out different people that have this or people that work within this space like I listened to I think it was Russell Barkley's book first you know like um and found out about what executive function meant and all these kind of things i' never heard before I was like I need to learn about this you know like and I'm really bad at learning stuff you know but it sounds like you aren't bad ADHD And Hyperfocus at learning stuff because and I've heard you talk about this before of like when you when you grab on to something yeah you want to all about it absolutely yeah which I think is um is is is wicked you know because like I I love being into something you know sometimes it can be very short time that I'm into it that's the only problem you know the amount of things I have in my house I started and not finished what are you into at the moment golf like dude I'm absolutely obsessed like it's it's it's a problem you know the list of things that you yeah the thing that you do not expect to come out of Matt Willis's mouth yeah man when you ask him what he's into at the moment absolutely dude it's destroying my life you're like it's um it's but it's brilliant I love it you know like it and literally this was the thing that I me and my wife don't have any hobbies I was like you know I used to really enjoy working out like the gym but I don't see it as a hobby anymore I see it as like a daily kind of like check-in list of things I do weekly that I have to kind of do so I don't really see that as a hobby anymore I was like I don't really do anything that's like not to do with my work or my kids or my I was like what do I do for me you know and I need something like that I thought so I bought me and my wife 10 golf lessons for Christmas what golf because I was like the first thing I could think of I was like I was like what's near our house right we got a golf course really close to our house I was like great I'm going to I'm going to buy us golf lessons right I thought it' be cute you know we going we we can like have a golf lesson then once a week we get to spend four and a half hours walking with each other no phones I thought it'd be a really cool thing to do you know um my wife was not that enth thrilled by her Christmas present you know so and she's really busy and she's like I can't you know like so I was like and it been like a month and I was like I'm going to go to one of these golf lessons you mind you know because I've got loads of time in my hands right now I don't know what to do and and she was like yo go go ahead I was like okay great to one I've been every week twice a week sometimes I I go to the driveing range almost every day you know whenever I can you know like in fact work's really been busy the last few weeks so was really annoying me that I haven't been able to play as much golf as I want to I think about it all the time I watch it you know I'm obsessed with it like it's a really um and I'm terrible I'm terrible at it you know but I'm okay with that you know because I love it what does it do for you it's a new form of focus that I've never really had like there's something about it that it's just there's no there's no one else there's nothing nothing it's just me this thing and hitting this ball in a straight line stick B straight line and very rarely does it go in a straight line and I'm like oh that's because I did something wrong what did I do wrong and I was really you know then it was like all right I'm not good enough at golf oh no you know like beat myself up beat myself up and then I play then I went to a really good golf course recently and um and I was oh I don't think I deserve to be here I'm not good enough to play on this golf course I was like oh I watched like a few people to off I was like oh everyone's [ __ ] at golf I like I'm all right you know like I'm okay most people are [ __ ] at golf is okay I'm allowed to be here I'm allowed to be here what are the the best bits about ADHD in your brain the fact that when I get into something I can really get into it on another level like it drives my wife crazy but um she also sees the enjoyment it brings me you know so she's okay with it she likes the fact that I've really love certain stuff you know like whatever that is at the time like I it can be problematic because um like I mean I've had so many periods of my life where I mean I've ruined songs you know like I just become obsessed with a band or a song and I listen to it so much that I now hate it you know like I do it all the time you know and I I try not to cuz I'm not really like this don't want to ruin it for myself you know I watched Offspring at download this weekend right and I forgot how much I love Offspring and since Sunday I've listened to offspring and nothing else you know and like I can't listen to two songs already cuz I've ruined them for myself it's Thursday today by the way exactly so i' i' hundreds of times you know like you know so it's um that's problematic but I I I love that you know and and do you think you can be positively obsessive yeah I think so I don't see a problem with that I think I have an ability to kind of to think differently about something there's a difference between becoming obsessed by something and becoming dogmatic about something you know like um I'm very open minded you know because I don't want to ever be ruled by something you know so like I will become really into something or really into somebody you know like um I had a Jordan Peterson phase where I was just like everything that came out of that man's mouth I was obsessed with you know then I can move on someone else you know like so it's I don't like become ruled by the church of Jordan Peterson you know like so I really enjoy becoming obsessed about things but because of ADHD it's sometimes shortl lasting you know so then I'm open minded enough to find something else and then I'm like no I've got something else to contribute to my life so so I'm picking up all this from everyone you know like you know like call it Jack of all master of none you know that's me you know so so uh how long do you think the golf thing is going to last I mean I hope it's a long time you know I really do hope it's a long time it's been since January you know I'm hoping that that's a ongoing thing but it was really a lot at the beginning like I was I became addict or like about it I was lying about where I was and I was on the driving range I was like I can't do this you know I'm like I'll be back at 5: I could have been back at 3: but I secretly went to the driver R you know so I'm like I don't want to behave like that so I had to kind of open up and be honest and say I've lied about it you know which is another thing getting all the kit I yeah oh my god there a new there's a new parcel every day yeah new parcel every day I've got seven pairs of golf shoes why I counted them recently I was like I've got seven pairs of Go shoes I've got four more ones ual ones trainers everything you know so being so good bits about being ADHD getting into stuff and and really loving it and yeah being boted with things yeah give me two How ADHD Helped Write Busted's Biggest Hits more thing is right is that however much I said I have to be careful about what I say that has also worked in my advantage like for instance with busted songs right like like our two biggest songs on the first album what I go to school for on Year 3000 that came because I said that you shouldn't say you know like that came because I'm willing to say you know that's write the song about fancying the school teacher which is kind of like the thing you shouldn't do like you shouldn't say those things you know but like I do and that that works it kind of works really well with you know it's kind of being able to say the thing that I think everyone's scared to say or you know like that has worked really well creatively because I think I can think outside the box or outside the parameters of normal you know normal way ever that is but also you you are willing to you're willing to speak up and yeah yeah I wasn't for a while you know like um and at times I've had to try and work out whether I should Reign myself in and that's something which I'm learning and I I sometimes get into trouble but not nearly as much as I used to but I think you know thinking differently about things has worked for me you know and then third best thing about being ADHD well I suppose it's energy and passion you know like we've already talked a little bit about that ADHD And Drive about getting into something but I can drive something that I can I can make [ __ ] happen you know like you I mean like but beyond someone else you know like um if I want to you know like I can really I can make something into existence you know because I'm I I I I want it and do you really know that do you really believe that I do I do I do believe that I I believe that I can like if I if I want something enough very little will stop me from doing that which I think should be championed you know like because um because in the past it's not been championed with me you know it's like don't have ideas above your station staying your lane all that kind of stuff I'm like forget that now you know like if you believe something and if and if it means something to you it might mean something to someone else and that means it's worthy of pursuing and I feel that way now because I feel like I have lots of people who I meet who are like me you know and like I think that they would be into this too you know like so I'm I'm willing to go there you know I don't listen to do you trust people I do trust people I have a ADHD And Trust small circle you know and I and I've learned to to cultivate the people around me very carefully you know and um and when other people come in it's very hard for me to kind of build up that because I feel like other people have their own agendas and their own things going on which is valid and if I'm working for that person I follow their agenda right so but if it's me I'm like I have a few people who I have sounding boards and I kind of like and I can trust fully with what I say you know and I know aren't going to judge me if I'm wrong because I am wrong occasionally more than occasionally you know so so you know so so that's okay you know like but I I I don't have that many I don't have lots of people in my life I have a few and they're really important yeah I like that and I definitely subscribe to ADHD In I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here that what does kangaroo anus taste like it didn't it didn't really taste of anything it was just really hard to chew you know it was like you know like skin around your finger like it was like a big massive mound of that you know so it's like it was really hard I had to break off it's gross think about you know you w I'm a celebrity get me out of here but when you think about being in the jungle you didn't know you were ADHD no what what do you think how do you reflect on that time with your ADHD now I mean I found things to do you know because it's boring that's the thing I think what people don't see about the jungle is it's really boring because if you don't have a task or or you don't get one of the trials you're in Camp all day with people you don't know very well and um and luckily I managed to find games and things to entertain everyone you know or I just like latched on to David guest who was this guy who I thought was hilarious and I'd make him do outrageous you know like which was really fun you know and I would be outrageous thank God they cut most of the stuff we talked about out cuz it's career ending you know had a great time we asked guest to Matt's Neurodivergent Item bring something that represents their brain what did you bring I bought this which is a very expensive powerp pack charger which I bought because I'm always running out of charge in everything I have or I forget to charge something but I forget to charge it so I've got it car it around with me like I've always I almost don't even bring it with me anymore because I know it's never going to have charge in it and it's completely void of charge so it's like it's just empty useless you know but it's like a really good idea and it's really would help me if only I do what I supposed to do with it but yeah this kind of represents very a lot of my life great intentions not followed through I love it the organizational aspect of needing to charge researched the out of these Chargers like I went into detail I was like which one do I need there's a lot on the market right so I'm going to find the best possible one at the time I had an Apple Watch so this has an Apple Watch charger and everything you need to find another charer another charger to charge the charger exactly exactly I've so loved talking to you man me too man and I've laughed a lot even at the difficult things that you said because I can relate to so much of it I sort of feel like we're both I don't know we're both men that are okay crying and being vulnerable and absolutely being open and honest and I think that's a good thing so whatever you are doing Matt just please keep doing it and and go for it and don't ever let your self tell you or try not to let yourself tell you that you're not worthy of being somewhere or doing something or being something thanks bro same for you man I I love this chat it's been great thanks mate thanks a lot [Music]