Matt Willis: What I Learnt In My Struggle Of Addiction

I had to drink as soon as I woke up and I hated myself for it but and I'd kind of find ways of rationalizing it you know like I felt like um something horrible is going to happen to me unless I did but as soon as I put these masks down you kind of realize who you are and you can build on that but you can't build a mask on a mask and a mask hey it's Jake here from the high performance podcast I want to start by saying big thanks to all of our new subscribers this channel is growing like crazy but most people that watch these videos on YouTube don't subscribe and it's so important to us if you can just hit the Subscribe button it grows our channel the bigger the channel grows the greater the names we can attract the greater the names the more important the conversations and the more impact we can have on your life so please before you watch this video just hit subscribe right now it's a game changer for us it's also fantastic for you but right now enjoy the video thanks for watching well thanks very much thanks a lot it's good to be here welcome to high performance it's nice in it thanks nice uh how would you define high performance I listen to this podcast so I was like I gotta prepare a proper answer for this but I think um someone said it before which I afford is a really good way of doing it which was um when my when my thoughts my words and my actions are aligned but with me there's a caveat of and it makes me happy Yeah because sometimes my thoughts and my words and my actions can mean something else and um and it doesn't always lead me to be content but I think when they're all kind of going the right way for the right reason that's when I feel good take us to a moment in your life where you've felt you're in the flow of high performance because Matthew McConaughey came on this poor customer's brilliant he said we spend our lives looking at the bad stuff and the dark times and the tricky moments thinking that that will lead us to high performance but he speaks about green lights he's like look at the days when you are in flow and then find more of those days that's so interesting I love this book um I love the the audio but I mean I could listen to his voice forever you know I actually did um I did a play once and I had to be Southern American in it so I listened to him every day on the way to work it was brilliant but um I think for me like being on stage a busted is when I feel like I don't really have to think about anything else like I normally rehearse really quite obsessively for quite a while so then I don't have to think about what I'm playing or seeing and then it just becomes about kind of enjoying that moment and kind of breathing it in and I think that's when I kind of get into a bit of a kind of Flow State and I don't really understand the difference between the work and the enjoyment so that's interesting then so you're in high performance when you've already done the work so you can give you the fruits of your labor so how do you know when enough work is enough that's a I don't I don't know I don't know I struggle with that I kind of um I I do I mean I'm not I'm not a very talented musician you know I've never really kind of been very good you know so I kind of um after a kind of years of hating myself about it I kind of realized that I just need to work my ass off at it you know so I kind of um so now like we start rehearsal we've got tour in September so I start we start rehearsal in August so I'll start in June and start kind of getting all my ducks in a row I'll go and visit the drama and we'll play through everything so then when I go in the room I'm already kind of prepared so when you define high performance as being on stage with the band then yeah I'm interested in what came first for you was it the buzz of Performing that got you to do the hard work or was it the love of the hard work and the performance was just a nice consequence I never really I never really thought I'd be in a band you know I kind of never really thought I'd do anything like this really I kind of um for me it was a way to get somewhere else you know like like and and I would have done anything but I would have been a hairdresser and anything possible to kind of take me out of where I was was my agenda you know so I think um and I just so happened like I went to theater school and I was and then I was like right okay I'm gonna be an actor that's going to take me away you know and then I met James whilst we were at whilst I was at theater school he was on the same acting agency as me so we meet auditions and I met him and I was like you've got it I'm gonna hold on to you you know like yeah he had something about him he was the weirdest kid I've ever met in my life but he had this kind of something that I didn't and I knew that I needed it you know so I just um I grabbed all the talent it's very interesting but you talk about you needed to get away from what from where I grew up I wasn't very very happy at home and I kind of always I always felt like um like as soon as I was old enough I was going to move out and move away I moved out when I was 16 and it was kind of um and it was the best thing that ever happened to me really you know I mean subsequently I joined a band with James we started busted together so I went to live with his parents at South End and it was just about I like I was always in trouble at home I was in trouble where I lived you know like and all my mates were doing the same [ __ ] that I was it was just like very apparent that if I didn't get out I was gonna be the same and I am and also I couldn't stand where I lived you know so I kind of wanted to be as far away from that as possible so um and what sort of trouble do you mean well we would we would you know typical kind of you know naughty kids and kind of getting into trouble and stuff and I was I was taking loads of drugs and kind of drinking relentlessly you know from a really young age how long probably from about 12 or 13 we were kind of getting what I personally was getting as [ __ ] up as I could I didn't realize that my mates weren't doing as much as I was until I was much older I looked back and going oh I was the only one who was kind of blackout and everyone else was just having a good time but I was the one going how can I get as [ __ ] up as I possibly can on as little money as I possibly can because one of our like one of the phrases that really resonates with Jake and I on this is we talk about the ghosts of our childhood that often rattle around our adult bodies that until we've had a chance to resolve some of these things they will continue showing up even as adults so what like when I hear you talk about blackouts and in the documentary I've seen that really moving clip where you and your brother sat on a park bench yeah and you almost apologize to each other yeah just for our listeners what was it that you were seeking to escape well I was kind of um we're quite a quite a traumatic upbringing in our house that we kind of didn't really we didn't really get along my stepdad and it became quite kind of frictious at times and then and my brother was um was much more where he was a couple years older than me so he kind of had the ability to stand up a bit more was I kind of just hid you know and um and I kind of never really got chance to kind of talked to him about that until that moment and um it was a really big thing for us to kind of sit down and talk about that because we we're very typical men in some way with that kind of we just kind of like brushed past it and move forward and we've never really addressed anything like that you know so um for us to kind of I kind of always felt guilty because he left home when he was 13 He Got he got made to leave and I I stayed and um and he always felt guilty for me for leaving me and I always felt guilty for not going with him so it was um it was a really big moment for us I think so how many years younger were you than him two two years younger so you're really from the from a really early age you're basically walking around with a sack load of guilt I mean you're guilty I guess you're guilty about hiding rather than yeah coming out and standing alongside your brother and helping him but you were a little kid you feel guilty about staying there when he's been forced to leave the family home why didn't I go with him that is a very powerful emotion to have to carried did you just push it away for all those years when you were in the band and everything was going well and we were all seeing you you know playing to Arenas and releasing records and getting number ones where where was that guilt then uh I never really I never really realized that it was guilt you know I kind of um I always felt shame you know like um which I which I knew really well and um and that kind of allowed me to act in a way that I could make sense of because I felt shame so the shame maybe take drugs and drink more you know and I then I just feel shame about what I was doing so that I'd dream more and take more drugs you know so it's kind of this Perpetual kind of cycle of shame but I think guilt never really played into it for me at the time until I was much older and then um kind of um like my kids were at a certain age now where I kind of I kind of think of what I was doing when I was that age and they're kind of at that age now and I'm like I couldn't imagine them having to kind of go through that or deal with it so it's kind of a but I never really I never really thought about guilt really for a lot for a long time but I don't feel that much guilt right now yeah well you shouldn't because implies in some way you're responsible I mean yeah let's be totally clear yeah you're at six seven eight nine year old kid yeah there's no responsibility on your shoulders it's about understanding that I guess yeah yeah totally but I think that's what comes with age and kind of dealing with stuff is you kind of do kind of get to kind of look back and you you know I had a therapist once you kind of would do loads of stuff about your inner child and kind of go there and kind of look at that stuff and kind of with an empathetic eye like you're a father looking at that kid you know and that was a big thing for me because you know like um we never really went too deep on it but whenever I what I took away from those sessions was I was able to kind of look up when I feel these things I can kind of trace it back and go right that's that kid who's scared or upset or or feeling you know frightened and that's not necessarily who I am now and I'm not I'm not I'm not scared of frightened right now so I'm kind of I'm able to change that narrative a bit and if you've got any happy childhood memories what I can't really remember much you know that was the thing that came up in in shooting this dock was that you know I realized very quickly on because we I wanted to I wanted to make a documentary about addiction I kind of went into like a production company and kind of gave me this big pitch about like I'm obsessed with with addiction and like finding out more science and kind of all these kind of breakthroughs that are happening like everything from brain scans to psychedelics blow my mind about what's coming out now in the kind of and the the kind of trajectory of that world and so I wanted to go and find out about those things and kind of Trace where addiction is what what it comes down to because you hear about it's genetic but then Dr Gaba Mata says it's not you know it's all trauma and you hear about trauma and you're like well that doesn't make sense for everybody that I meet because everyone you know and then you know all these kind of things I wanted to kind of find out a bit more about that and then we kind of um we started shooting the doc and it just became really kind of apparent that it was it was much more of a personal story for me rather than the what they would say boring science but I find the rewarding science really really interesting so it's really hard I'm interested in that before we go on and explore that because yeah having seen the documentary there's some really fascinating questions yeah in relating to high performance but I'm particularly interested in that phase of feeling shame yeah because I think that's one of the most pernicious emotions you can have to be ashamed of something is something that's really quite deep and almost embarrassing and can feel toxic yeah means to like permeate like yeah it's in everything right yeah and I'm interested in what was it that you felt shame about yeah I mean I don't I don't really know see about you but sorry I realized I didn't really answer your question like I couldn't I couldn't I couldn't really remember anything like when I think back to my child and kind of happy memories and stuff I couldn't really I can't really like everything's just a bit vague and I think I think and I was like do I have these stories or have I made them up or have they evolved over time into something that they're not all these kind of questions because I I don't really think I can physically remember these moments and that my um when I was I've sat down my brother lots and talked about the past now and he mentioned kind of moments to me which are big [ __ ] moments you know like really big important Pinnacle moments in a child's development and I don't remember anything about it like nothing like I don't I'm like that did not happen like it was it did I was there you know and I don't remember it so like you're in some way your kind of brain as some way of kind of blacking it out and kind of like maybe it's but I've always kind of felt like it's like this kind of scaffolding that we build up around ourselves to kind of make who we are now like it's kind of you kind of build this kind of character on top of each other that becomes who you are you know so for me to do that I kind of felt like I'd blacked out all this kind of hard [ __ ] and not dealt with it but because of that I felt some kind of weird shame and kind of kind of Darkness about it that I couldn't really come to terms with and was it there all the time or when when you moved in with James and you started writing songs and things began to happen like was there lightness in those moments yeah I mean I loved it you know like I mean I I absolutely loved it like I couldn't believe it was happening yeah like it was just like it's I mean we we literally we started the band and all we dreamed of is playing this venue in South Bank called chinnaries and it was like like new kind of cool up and coming bands would play there it was like 200 capacity we're like maybe we can play there and [ __ ] score chicks or something that was kind of like the Big Goal you know so when we were like shooting videos and there was like camera Crews and all this kind of stuff around I couldn't quite believe it was happening you know so there was there was loads of massive amazing moments but I still found my way to kind of black out and kind of and kind of even though I should have been enjoying all the fruits of what was happening I couldn't help but feel like I didn't belong or didn't deserve it and is there an argument that that almost makes it worse because then there's another voice in your head going you should be loving every minute of this because you're now in a band you've now got your dream you've had a number one single you're touring you're famous you're like you're everything you ever wanted and dreamed of and then a lot more yeah still these thoughts are there still the shame is there which probably adds to the absolutely breathes more shame yeah like um and also I was acting in ways which weren't weren't necessarily conclusive to the pop image you know so I was kind of um we we were kind of like I mean Buster was kind of a it was in a weird place because it wasn't really a rock band so we weren't like cool enough to be accepted by that world but we weren't really a stereotypical pop band so we weren't really accepted in that world so it was kind of this weird kind of like scary kids who couldn't skate in their own lane you know and it kind of didn't really make sense so kind of like we always felt a bit like The Outsiders but then I mean when it got when it got really big and successful it kind of came up as a as a massive surprise to me like I didn't really see it coming and I was like wow this is we're [ __ ] playing Wembley and stuff you know it didn't really ever I didn't see the rise I didn't see anything it was just suddenly dawned on me that we're kind of doing this cool [ __ ] but could you connect the hard work you've done of learning an instrument of writing these songs could you connect that with the success or did that feel like uh extraneous sir I think that's the that's the thing though we we wrote these songs in Jay's bedroom and we wrote Silly Songs which made us laugh and um that's all we kind of did like I never really thought that they would be taken seriously or made into an album or anything so we were kind of like I was really shocked that these were doing well you know in a way because we just we we also we when when I met James he played piano light with one finger here and three fingers here you know and I played like four chords on the guitar and that was it and that's how we wrote the whole first album really it's like you were never meant to be a band right never meant to happen it was such a kind of like organic kind of punk rock way to start really we really couldn't do much we're just writing kind of like from our life and it seemed to resonate with people and then I think what really eped me up was the fact that I was never a bass player um I could play guitar basically to write songs like James was a much better guitar player to me and we write these little songs on guitar like I I could play like most of the chords you know in like a scrappy little way and then we got signed and they were like right well Charlie and James are much better at Guitar than you so you'll play bass and I was like I don't have any desire to play this instrument nor do I want to and it was kind of pushed on me and um and it took me [ __ ] ages to learn it like really really long time and I kind of and I felt really inadequate with it and then when I had to sing with it it became a different Minefield because like to play I could learn to play it all but then when I had to sing like playing bass and singing is really hard because I like alternate rhythms so you're singing something different to what you're playing and I found that really hard so I was kind of constantly kind of feeling less than for that and kind of feeling like a bit of a fraud you know the thing is right I I look at this though and I think that all of this is actually in a weird way the epitome of high performance because if you if you think of what you did you ended up in a band that did the amazing things that buster did but you ended up in that band despite childhood traumas you ended up in that band despite the fact that you felt like you were in a band that didn't fit anywhere in the sort of spectrum of music you were in that band unsuccessful despite the fact that as the band grew and become more successful that only increased your shame because you struggled even more with those things from your childhood and then you get forced to play an instrument that you don't even want to play and the band that you don't know where fits yeah that you're only in and you still want these childhood traumas it's like it's like everywhere you look there's challenge challenge challenge challenge challenge challenge challenge yeah yet you're in it and you're doing it and you're learning it and you're singing and you're performing and you're signing autographs and your Fame is growing like that's high performance high performance isn't just gliding through life in a straightforward's way yeah and thinking well that life was easy for me I must be a high performer I want people to understand that this this is high performance the ability to deal with all that [ __ ] and do it still yeah I think that's you're so right like I I couldn't look at it at that in that way at the time it's just kind of going through it and kind of panicking but um I think that's you know like that's that's that's life isn't it you're kind of learning the struggle you know and I think we're all kind of live in that struggle you know a lot of the time but what comes out of it is an ability to make other things less painful do I mean like um like um I I think of it the same way as why I get in this bloody ice tub every morning you know I hear about all this kind of stuff that it makes your inflammation and you're good for your heart and stuff like that I don't do it for that reason I do it because I hate doing it and I get in it every morning and I never want to get in it but when I get in there for three to five minutes I get out and nothing in my day is going to be as difficult as getting in that freezing cold tub every morning so that's where I'm one of those annoying when because he talks about cold tubs all the time but it's been but it's been really big for me you know because I get in it and I'm like right cool anything else it's kind of easy you know but I think you're right like it's about it's about you know learning to kind of um to kind of deal in the mess yeah you know and kind of kind of come through but have you got to a point yet where you can look at it and go look how strong I was yeah yeah I have yeah I have got to that point like especially now like Boston is in the best place it's ever been you know and it kind of feels like we really kind of know what we are and what we do and I think that's taken a long time for me personally to get to but I feel like now there's nothing that I don't feel like we could do in a way you know like as a band like I feel like we could kind of like when we write together when we record everything's kind of like I mean it's it's hard when you've got free creatives because that's the biggest problem with us is that we've got three different creative Brands who all have different ideas and want to push different things which is hard but then that becomes through compromise becomes easier but then you know it's um I do feel like I've learned a lot from that can I go back to that period when you when you're learning bass and you're having to learn about performance will you still getting pissed were you still taking drugs in that period yeah the whole time the whole time yeah I mean it was um it was a daily thing for me from a young age you know like I think it never became I never thought of it as anything like I didn't um I was thought like you have a problem when you wake up and drink you know eventually that became my life but it wasn't for the whole time during bastard I just get I'd wait till four or five o'clock and start getting wrecked you know but like and and after shows and things like that it would just be that but then um but I always thought I always had these these things that I would never do but I won't do that because that's that's bad then I crossed that War I jump over that wall be like oh right now I'm doing that Kevin I won't do that and then I get to there and I do that and that you know well like like um like drinking because like drinking in the morning was a big thing for me to kind of I don't think you could really ignore that you know when you wake up and you've got the physical kind of when you become physically addicted something is very different to when you uh to when you're non-physically addicted you know when you when you like literally if I didn't drink first thing in the morning for a few years that I would physically shake and have seizures and and all this kind of horrible this is about 21 to 24 maybe no no 20 22 to 25 you know like those kind of years I was kind of um uh I I was I had to drink as soon as I woke up you know like in um and it would be and I hated myself for it but and I'd kind of find ways of rationalizing it you know like I felt like um something horrible is going to happen to me unless I did you know and um and then I would I would hide things around so I could always do it like I had this kind of routine of wake up in the morning and I had a load of stuff stashed in my airing cupboard in my bathroom and I kind of flushed a chain over the can drink that and then I feel a bit of ease and comfort and kind of carry on with my day so that was the first boundary what was he said there was a lot more before that there was a lot more before that kind of like um like uh like there's there's loads of things like I never thought I would have to lie about my drug taking you know I did some management and stuff because management didn't want you taking drugs but then you know like the record company and stuff like that I could lie about that all the stuff all the time but I thought it was just rock and roll you know but then um like I had had moments where I was always lying about how much I'd done how much I drunk how much I you know especially with my wife like it became like we were dating and towards our marriage like I was just I lied to her every day about what I was up to what I was doing and um and I loved her you know and I kind of never thought that I would be that person but I was kind of constantly hiding and lying you know that was a big thing for me and why was um you know the age of like I mean would you say it got really bad at what like 22 21 20 yeah 21 I think when busted ended it was a big thing for me because before I think work kept me I had to perform you know I had to I had to do something every day you know so I could kind of level things out I was a very functioning addict in a way and um I don't know if I'm very keen on that word but like it was uh I was functioning like I could get [ __ ] done and I could still carry on with what I was doing and it allowed me to function in the way that I needed to function you know but then when busted ended when I was 21 um I suddenly was faced with the prospect of what do I do with the rest of my life and at that time I had a shitload of cash and loads of time and it just went [ __ ] for you for me it was a dangerous mix and um and um and also kind of no direction no purpose no kind of um nothing to really like everything was about the band and everything was about this train that we were on that we couldn't get off and suddenly I was off that train and I didn't know what to do next and who was the first person that said Matt this is like Way Beyond just enjoying life I had so many people sit me down like really kind of key figures in my life because that's my big thing when I watch a documentary I was like where were the people helping this guy out yeah like yeah but they were there were they there were some people there you know like um like um like there was a few people at my my record company who were kind of much older than me and we kind of sat me down and were like this isn't you know this isn't normal behavior you need to sort of [ __ ] out like quite a few people and um and my manager was always telling me that you know but at the same time it was it's very hard because they couldn't ship me off to rehab because I had work to do you know so like trying to manage kind of like we've got and and at the time you're running so many people so much money that you've just got to keep the [ __ ] show on the road in a way so it's like how do we manage this Wrecking Ball and kind of keep him kind of like going you know but I did have definite people talk sit me down and talk to me and fear like I'm gonna blow this I'm gonna ruin this I'm like yeah that was always kind of always kind of there but I think it was kind of part of me was all right with that you know in a weird way you know like I mean towards the end of busted like I was I was I was kind of preempting the the the downfall of me in a way you know I was kind of almost begging for it you know because I feel like I'd kind of had enough of living like this for such a long time and then it took me years then to kind of come to come to grips with it but then it was um I was always kind of waiting for that moment of it's over yeah you know and when was when was that moment It came it came when my daughter was born like she was about eight months old and um and I was I like well I think a few things had happened before that like I got signed to as a solo wise when busted ended they gave me this amazing opportunity the whole company gave me a great record deal for a solo record and um I never really wanted to be a solo artist but I was like great something to do brilliant you know and um and I really [ __ ] it up like that was the biggest kind of failure I'd ever really experienced then explain what happened well I kind of um I was given an amazing budget and kind of could work with anybody I wanted to you know Studios that were incredible recording studios and people and their time and their effort and I was just not turning up I wasn't I wasn't I wasn't there you know and I'd leave people waiting I'd kind of you know the album took three times as long to record as we said because I wasn't writing it you know and then um and at the time I was working with this amazing guy called Jason Perry who was so worried about me you know it was kind of like he had a really hard thing because he had to get an album made from me but all he wanted to do was take me away you know and it was um so it was a really hard relationship for him to have to deal with but then I think and that and then that Bond you know that that record kind of came out um not surprisingly it wasn't very it was it wasn't it wasn't very good it wasn't very right you know it didn't really make any sense none of it kind of came together as an album was all over the place and um and uh like everything busted did went to number one like everything you know and so my first single win at number 11 and for a new kind of artist I would have been great but because everything from busted had gone to number it was a massive kind of failure and for a guy that's living with shame how did that make you feel um I mean it made me feel embarrassed and kind of um and I think so so there was two things going on one is that I kind of I knew that it I hadn't done the right job I hadn't done a good enough job and that so but part of me was like was quite relieved that I hadn't tried as hard as I could because it failed and I could kind of rely on that well I was [ __ ] up it wasn't a big deal you know but actually it killed me that that didn't work because I think at that point I didn't have anything else going on and that was the only thing that I had to strive towards you know so it was um when that didn't work out it was a big a big kind of dawning moment on me that you know you have very little to do right now and just because obviously we're not in this world right yeah when this happens how do people deal with it from the record labels perspective or the pr companies like do they sugarcoat this and go um you know the economic conditions aren't quite right for solo artists at the moment and with it or do they just go we gave you a chance and you blew it mate well I think people stopped picking up the phone you know and people stop checking on me and stop kind of like and that sends a message it sends a message you know like suddenly when your diary isn't full you know and you've got nothing happening and no one's really caring about and the offer for a second album was not there you know and I was like what happens now kind of that kind of thing it was a very it was an obvious sign I'd heard this happening to loads of bands that my mates were in so I kind of knew what was happening and the answer was more Drinker more drugs was it the answer was yeah just just hide away and and drink and use plummy so had you been in rehab at this point I've been twice at that point yeah and who in those periods so this is did you go into rehab while you in busted or only after no only after right who sent you whilst I was making the first record um I knew I was in real trouble with everybody and I kind of hadn't been turned up to sessions I hadn't been doing stuff and I was spending a lot of money on me and so I kind of went I need to do something dramatic to kind of get people on side again so I I went to rehab and I went to this really Posh place and I kind of just went right and going that's it and I kind of went within a few days interesting way to describe rehab to get people back on size yeah it almost is like it's almost like you're talking about it like I haven't got a problem like but these people have so I'm going to go to rehab to sort their problem with me out you know what I'm saying that's exactly was my thought but really you know I was like these people seem to think this is a problem so I'm gonna go and show them that it's not you know by kind of going what's the most ultimate way of doing that well I've got a rehab and show them I'm fine you know and I went there and I came out I went there for two weeks I think the first time and I came out and I drunk the next day because then you can't be truthful in rehab because you don't even feel you should be in rehab I'll just count down a day so I could leave you know I said I'd just sort of give them 14 days because we had to do a single promo and so I had to start promo on this day so I've got 14 days right okay you got me for 14 days and I literally just counted down the days and six of them were on a detox to come off booze you know and then um and then once I was in therapy and stuff I just kind of stayed still waiting down my time and left you know and the second time I did exactly the same thing but for the people I was working with and for Emma because she was really worried about me and kind of I knew I was in big trouble so I kind of went there to kind of go well I'll take it seriously this time you know but I really wasn't I just wanted to do what I wanted to do and kind of like get people off my back a bit and what was your relationship like with yourself because I'm like a theme that's I'm hearing from a lot of your answers Mark is that you didn't value yourself much so busted was a success in spite of you you know the the your solo album flopped because you didn't try it was almost like you didn't put yourself your whole self out there so you could find an excuse or mitigation if things didn't so if it came off there was a reason if it didn't come off there was a reason yeah and there's a relationship like with yourself your own self-worth I think that was the biggest problem with me you know was um was you know like I remember doing um a TV presenting geek you know I was kind of like everything was going badly and they were like right okay we're gonna we got your presenting gig on this music thing and um I was like how do I how do I do that how do I present I was like I'll just be yourself remember them telling me that I was like Wow [ __ ] I hate myself don't be that guy you know so it kind of um I really I always had this you know overwhelming kind of self-hatred that kind of followed me around and I kind of um so I put on these different masks of people that I think people would like you know like math and busted was a [ __ ] great one you know like he was his people liked him people invited him to places you know that kind of stuff until they didn't until I became a liability you know but um it was um that that that self-worth thing was a really hard one for me to kind of come to terms with it's still a struggle sometimes now but I kind of have ways of kind of you know like is that fact or is that a thought those kind of things come into play all the time give us an example because I think there's people listening to this that will be able to recognize some of those yeah like um like I always kind of think you know when something is about to happen or gonna happen be it good or bad or otherwise um there's always a thought that creeps into my head that you're not good enough you're not worthy enough you're not you're a fraud all this kind of stuff and then I have to I have to really control that thought pattern and not let it escalate so I kind of always have this thing is that a four or is that a fact you know and then I can kind of go right okay what is that where's it coming from because it's always a thought it's not you know I mean if someone's asked me to run a marathon tomorrow I'd say that's that's a valid thing for me to worry about because I don't know what to do there and I've never done it before you know but most of these things in my life I've kind of done and I kind of and can prove that I can you know but I have this ability to put a wall in front of myself before it's begun with self-loathing you know so um I have a um loads of practices I do daily like I start my day with a gratitude Journal which is the which I learned in rehab the last time I went to rehab and it's been I mean I've passed this on to so many people I know especially in recovery because it's the biggest thing of my day like it kind of starts my day with you know it seems really Naf and cliche but it's like to I can wake up on the wrong side of bed every day if I want to you know and kind of so by waking up and starting about three simple things that I'm grateful for it changes my thought pattern you know I can see that I'm grateful for them because I deserve them you know and that's a very different way to think about them rather than grateful for them because I'm chancing my way through it you know and um so that's the way I think of it I don't think of them I think of ways that I'm I'm worthy of those things I'm grateful for you know and I'm interested I I'll give you a personal example I remember when I became a dad um what really left me feeling bereft once was um somebody had said to me that I I was pushing myself to the edge of burnout and somebody had asked me to almost articulate that in a voice and what would let me bereft was somebody had said to me how would you feel if somebody spoke to your son in the way that you're speaking to yourself and I was so horrified that I thought I need to do something to crack this yeah and I'm interested for somebody that had this self-love in this destructive tendency this propensity to addiction when you became a father what sort of emotions questions and challenges did that stir up for you um well that was the the changing moment in my life you know because I I can't really like I said I never meant to be in a band I never meant to get a drama school and be an actor or anything but I kind of um I always wanted to be a dad you know when I think back to everything in my life the only thing I ever wanted to be was a father I had the image of them in my head I kind of could imagine myself being a dad I knew what I wasn't gonna do you know a very strong opinion on what I wasn't gonna do and what kind of father I was going to be and um and I had my daughter and she was about eight months and I missed her crawling for the first time and my wife's birthday party because I was out getting [ __ ] and the next day I kind of um I woke up and Emma came in she didn't shout at me she didn't yell at me just told me what I'd missed and that she wasn't gonna stand for it and and it it hit me all of a sudden that I was gonna be a terrible father and it was the one thing that I had always planned not to be the only thing I'd ever planned not to be and I was gonna do that and I was going to do that to this little little person who I loved more than I never felt in my entire life and I was gonna repeat that cycle of [ __ ] you know and um and it and it made me drop to my knees and and asked for help you know for the first time ever like I mean it you know like um I was always kind of mitigating damage you know I was always kind of trying to keep people keep all these [ __ ] plates in the air you know like but at this point I was like I have nothing that I can do you know because everything I do is is not working I need help and it was um and it it really and I asked for help and I was given it and um and that was the real turning point in my in my life with addiction really it kind of it you know people say about rock bottoms like um which I hear quite a lot in recovery which is a terrifying Prospect because I don't really like that term because you hear oh we just hasn't hit his Rock Bottom yet I'm like uh people die in rock bottoms all the time you know and it's um and do we have to wait till it's one that Society deems success a success you know what does that mean you know whereas this this night that I had was no different to thousands of nights I'd had but the prospect of what I would lose and what I would what I would pass on to my child was too much for me to comprehend so I think that was the that was the moment when it really it gave me something bigger than myself you know which I think is the biggest thing they they say they call it in in recovery circles they say a higher power I don't know what that means you know but I know that I had something that was larger than myself to to care for you know and um and um and that was what really turned the corner for me well I mean it's hugely moving to hear you talk about it like that um and then you you go into rehab after that then no I've been to rehab before that I'm uh we we've been married I went to I went to a rehab and I stayed sober for a while I was sobering my wedding day and then it was about five months after that I started bouncing in and out like relapsing here and there but never intending to keep drinking I was never like it was I didn't want to I was just doing it and I think there's something that comes with knowledge as well when you know what you're doing you know and you know you're acting this way there's no hiding from yourself which just feeds into shame because I know exactly what I was doing and I was still doing it and I think that was um but I'd learned so much in that rehab about me and I really thrown myself at it like um before we got married I was really in a really bad way and so I went to to rehab I came out of rehab three days for my wedding day and um and I was sober on my wedding day which is amazing and um and I had a honeymoon and I had a period of time where everyone seemed to be you know happy with me you know and then I just started to [ __ ] up again and I think but then when I had Isabel it I don't know it became so much more shameful like than more than I'd ever felt before because it was like um I couldn't I couldn't I could no longer rationalize it I could no longer deny it away it was just me acting addictively and and punishing people around me by my behavior so I think there was some um but then um now I got um I just I I stopped that day and I kind of um and I stopped in without rehab but this is when you're rehab yeah yeah I kind of um but I don't I I think rehab like addiction is a is a chronically relapsing thing you know like it doesn't have to be you know there's lots of people that I know that have got clean stay clean you know but there is a there is a large proportion of people that that relapse quite often and I think for me that was um that was the case in the early days like I kind of I couldn't quite manage life without something else you know and I kind of would last a while and like grip onto my chair you know and kind of just get through life and then I just wait until I can you know and um and I think but that moment I think gave me something that they talk about you know that's kind of like there's something that's larger than yourself something more something higher powerly you know for me it was my daughter you know and it kind of um and then it was about and then I I did everything I was told you know and I kind of and I found other ways to keep my you know kind of addictions at Bay you know and not even a bay just to kind of just dismiss them and and kind of focus on being a better person every day and how long ago was was that that was you've got three kids 12 13 years ago that was 13 years 13 years ago and and but I relapsed about six years ago which was um which kind of came out the blue really it was um I was I was away with a band and I've been I've been clean for eight years I haven't done anything and um but I wasn't really I was kind of in a place in my life where I felt like I was all right you know and then I was on tour and someone we were hanging around with was doing gear in my dressing room and they offered me a note and I just went and um but I was like to us I was I was already it's funny because relapses don't happen by accident you know I've been planning something like this for a while I've been kind of knowing that I wasn't I wasn't I don't know part of the party you know I was very much on my own all the time and I kind of and it was a way to keep myself safe so we had the guy gone who was on his knees in the bedroom with an eight-month-old saying this never happens again like yeah what happened to that Matt at this point I think he thought he was over it right you know I think he I think I had thought at that point that I was I'd done enough [Music] it's almost like it's going to you know what you've done eight years yeah six years so I reckon you could have a drink now yeah you're fine you're no longer the way I rationalize it was very similar because I was like well alcohol was my downfall I just did Coach kiwi sober so you just thought I'll take them so I just I'll just do just cocaine that's all right you know that's perfectly acceptable that's fine you know so I didn't drink the entire time during my relapse and that was what allowed me to kind of rationalize using you know but I was I wasn't using Coke like anybody else does you know I was doing it I was using Coke alcoholically you know like I was doing it all day long every day you know it was um and um and that lasted about four months you know um until I kind of I've there was nowhere else for me to hide and I kind of got monies again to my wife and told her everything and kind of then I went and got help immediately I think we should probably talk about your wife then and her pivotal role in in this whole story yeah um you said earlier on in the interview you said I just always wore different masks like I wore the map from busted mask which was like the Funtime guy or yeah when you first met Emma like were you wearing a mask then and if so how long did you wear the mask for before she sort of really got to know you I mean at the beginning I was wearing the math and busted masks because people liked that guy you know and I think and I mean she was like his words talk about my wife this way but like I was so amazed that she was even dating me like like really like I was [ __ ] like she was in my phone as the fit girl from MTV you know like she was like I couldn't believe that she was texting me back at the beginning you know and kind of like these kind of things and like let alone that I was with her you know so I mean that lasted a while yeah because it did because you're the guy full of Shame so yeah yeah you're not meant to be loved or have people show you affection exactly especially not this like woman who I worshiped you know like I couldn't believe that she was with me you know and like and um but you know over time those things yeah we come to know the real you and I'm not sure whether that was a good thing or a bad thing for her but from uh she was she she was everything I wasn't you know like I couldn't believe that she was like she I'd never met anybody like her what do you mean by that she was everything he wasn't well she was um she was uh what I suppose people would call normal you know like um she was you know as as incredible as she is you know like her family were like this this amazing unit and they I remember going around to her house once and um and I'd been out with her the night before and we'd stayed at her parents house and we woke up and then there was no plan the next day there was nothing to do they just hung out with each other in the in the living room all day and that's what they wanted to do I was like wait so you just wanna you just want to spend time with each other that's all you want to do you know drink tea and chat and spend time I couldn't believe that people did this you know like it was it was so alien to me and um and she was um she was a I don't know there was no [ __ ] with her there was no there was no what you see is what you get you know like there was no there was no pretense there was no there was no acting different in a certain situation there was just her and she'd just be this person and everywhere she went and it was um and it was incredible to kind of see you know and that was the effect on you of being in a stable from the environment like that people just wanting to speak to you not to map from busted how did that make you feel uh it was quite um it was quite hard at the beginning if I'm honest it was quite um it was really weird for me to be in any kind of like I used to hate social situations but then I'd drink and everything would be all right you know like um but like to not be able to do that and just be there and just be was really difficult for me because I had to kind of turn it into some kind of performance or you know or be the I don't know like whatever they wanted me to be you know they didn't want me to be anything you know which was really really hard for me to comprehend and understand so I probably acted like an absolute dick for many years you know kind of like trying to be this thing that I think they'd like you know and actually they just liked me so people know Emma as a TV presenter tell us what she's like as a wife and as a mum she's the most like selfless like loving person I've ever met in my life like and I can understand why she ended up with me in a way because she's a she's a fixer you know she's she sees something and she wants to fix it you know she wants she's very caring you know like him people say they're very caring but Emma is is in a DNA you know like it's something about her that wants to kind of care for people and then and um and I think that was what she found quite hard with me is that she didn't at the end didn't know what else to do you know like it was um but she was um she was a she was fun she was cool she was you know [Music] um just an amazing incredible human that I couldn't believe that she was kind of hanging out with me so as an addict what advice would you give for people out there that might be listening to this that maybe can see some of these patterns of behavior maybe it's not manifested in itself into drink or drugs but it might be other addictive behaviors like work like yeah a work airfare car or addiction to social media it can be a myriad of other things yeah what advice would you give for anybody out there that wants to help somebody that they see in the grip of an addiction I think this is the hardest question in the world because you know they always I've always been told that you can't help anybody until they're ready to be helped you know and I do think there is something in that I wish there wasn't because I've tried you know like I mean I know I meet people all the time and that and I and I and I get people passed on to me that people are worried about and I and I talk to them and there's there's a barrier that isn't it until you're ready to until you're ready to accept the problem that you have it's impossible to penetrate you know and um and and even when you can penetrate it there's always the risk of something else getting in the way you know so it's um it's a really it's a really hard thing I think um like I read this amazing book um by Dr Anna lemke's talks about dopamine and kind of like the imbalance in the body of dopamine she she was um does something which I have started to do with people because I there's a difference between addiction and problem drinking and there's a difference between problem using and and addiction you know and I think there's a real test which is a 30 day test right it's if you can stay out the way from your subject from your substance of choice whatever that be be it alcohol be it drugs be it sex be it gambling be it social media whatever it is for 30 days you can reset some of those neuro Pathways in your brain to connect with that subject that substance so you can rewire those things right it takes 30 days and you can you can but you can readdress your your relationship with that thing so and if after those 30 days life is better you know your your your relationships about your you you feel good about yourself everything's good then maybe you have to address the feeling of do you want that back in your life you know and then you have to face the thing of can you bring it back in your life you know and I'm not there to say anything because like um each of their own if they can and [ __ ] good on them I wish I could actually no I don't actually wish I could but um but I I admire people that can you know but I I definitely can't but um there is something about that which I which I tell a lot of people to do I'm not right for the next 30 days we're going to try it and if you can't last at 30 days and maybe you have a problem you know and what about healthy addiction so what I mean by that is stuff that Society goes oh that's brilliant that you've got such a strong work ethic but it might be Crossing into the boundary of some kind of addiction or it might be somebody obsessed by a fitness goal or something like that that's pushing themselves like what's you well I think it always comes down to why you know like and that's the thing like um if if you feel like you have something going on like that you have to you have to maybe I think for me that I've had that a lot in my life like for me drinking dogs judge don't come into my life every day but Behavior does you know and it's my behavior which worries me and I can become addict like about pretty much anything right you know and I find myself getting like it quite often with things and normally my wife's the first one to say you need to pay attention to this but a lot of the time I I do pick it up myself and it's always like what am I trying to suit what sort of things then well I mean exercise is a big thing for that for me for a long time like when I got clean I kind of um I found exercise and like there's been times in my life when I've at the bleep of a watch from Tupperware and kind of trained for a a bodybuilding competition that's never happening you know I'm like why am I doing this you know why am I becoming so obsessed with this this thing are you into CrossFit for a bit yep I'm sure I was at an event once and you were there you were like massive yeah yeah and as I was going on your arm just CrossFit or like yeah yeah and you were deep into Crossing yeah I mean that's that's that that's a that's a that's an ad extreme CrossFit but um I think so but it's also fantastic you know there's a sense of community and sense of connection with people and you're all in it for the same reasons and there's a beautiful part of CrossFit um I think it's an incredible thing it's not for me because I've learned that I can take that I'm competing for the CrossFit Games when I'm really not you know so it's um I had to be you know same with cycling for me that became a problem you know all these kind of things um and and and food is a real issue for me at times you know but um I think with anything it comes down to what are you what are you trying to dull you know what are you trying to you know what are you using this for you know and um and I have to ask myself those questions quite a lot you know why am I doing this is it coming from a you know and sometimes they're all right you know that's the thing that sometimes like working out all most days is okay it's good for your health it kind of keeps you longevity all these kind of things are fantastic for but if I'm doing it as a form of punishment which can happen sometimes or if I'm doing it as a form of um just getting away from everything else that can be a problem for me but um you know I think Society um we we don't look at these in the same way you know we kind of we celebrate these kind of things like especially um Workaholics we celebrate these people you know but if you look at these people who are you know the most powerful people like I'm sure you know I don't know the relationship that Jeff Bezos has of his family but I'm sure they miss him sometimes you know like um you know there's got to be there's gotta be so much that you give up you know to be that kind of work that kind of workaholic you know so um and for me I have to really address those things so would you tell us some of the key questions that you have learned to ask yourself when you think that you might be going down that path whether it's a destructive or or even what might be regarded as socially acceptable addiction what the kind of questions you ask yourself that give you a pause for thought and stop it spy villain I think for me it always comes down to what's going on in my life right now like am I am I doing am I am I living the way that I want to you know with these certain aspects of my life which can be um purpose you know which is a hard one for me you know but family is a is the big part of that for me that am I am I fulfilling these parts of my family life which I should be and if I'm when I'm not it's usually because something else is creeping in the way and kind of getting in the way of that you know am I am I doing everything I can for what I love you know and um and that can be work sometimes you know but like that's I think for me I have a real funny relationship with that because sometimes you need to put everything you have into something you know and especially with the band there's times in my life when I have to put everything I have into this entity with my life and things can fall away but I think there's you know like I read about these um I listened to these people talk about how they um how this couple would have a um quarterly they'd sit down they'd Mark each other out of ten on these different um aspects of their life with the letter B provider lover you know parent all these kind of things and they'd Mark each other out of 10 as long as they're getting 30 then they're doing okay you know but like you don't have that at home no and I would not go down very well in my house but they Mark each other on it you know it's the exact Brave couple right but um I think that's the thing like these different things and sometimes one of them can fall away a little bit as long as the others are okay as long as I pay attention to that one I can go back to it and build it back up you know um but I do have problems with that you know about finding balance I don't know what that work life balance is I don't really understand that yet you know so I'm still kind of coming to work to terms with that what about marriage um because you know remaining married is is enough of a challenge for most people yeah remaining married to an addict when you have three kids and you your wife has a high profile life with demands on her own time and other things like that is a real that's a real challenge so you clearly have a high performance marriage yeah what are the secrets I think it's brutal honesty yeah you know but that comes up in every part of my life now which is something which I fought against so hard in early recovery kind of like I lied about everything I never told the truth once to anybody at any at any moment really you know like I didn't really ever tell that what was really going on for me at any moment you know now I have to be brutally honest about everything even if unless it will cause the other person incredible harm I am really honest about things and I think me and Emma have that we're able to go hey this is not cool or this is affecting me or you need to look at this you know I think that's um and we're not scared of those things either that because I will always you know sometimes my reaction is not great because um I don't want something to be taken away which I'm enjoying you know or those kind of things you know it's not about taking things away it's about looking at something in a different way you know but I think having that kind of open dialogue is a big thing you know being able to talk about stuff we've got history that proves that I don't do very well with secrets you know like um they can eat away at me and I think and what I've learned from everybody I've met in recovery is you never really get away with anything really you never really you think maybe you've got away with that from a few years ago you haven't you know it will either come back to you in a few years or it will eat the [ __ ] away at you for so long that it will cause something that will drop into something else so really kind of being as honest as possible is the most safest way is that one of the worst things that the deceit and the lying and the double crossing and the trickery that comes with the addiction yeah I think for me I didn't really realize how exhausting that was you know like um like here like some people will say to me I can't believe you don't have a drink anymore isn't that really hard I'm like not as hard as it was drinking you know that was really [ __ ] difficult like lying and cheating and working my way out and remembering what lies I'd told and you know that was the worst thing for me is kind of remembering all the you know because and all it was kind of it was so exhausting that that life is really [ __ ] hard this life is pretty simple as long as I treat it simple they say you know it's they they say kiss keep it simple stupid and do you have grounds now that you and Emma work work to like I don't know like I don't know whether you regularly think that thought comes in here oh I'm gonna have a drink or I'm going to take some drugs I don't know whether that is a thought that comes in and gets pushed away or whether you don't have those thoughts at all or if they do do you have a rule that you tell her or that if you're feeling a certain way you make sure you mention it to her or if she's scared about you she definitely speaks to you about it do you have these she speaks to me about it you know she brings up something if she's worried or she thinks I'm not telling the truth about something she'll bring it out with me all the time I have other people who I talk to about those things you know like um I don't want to burden her with everyone you know crazy Addiction thought that I have you know I don't think about taking drugs and drinking daily you know like occasionally like I'll walk past a pub in the summer and I'll see someone drinking a pint with a condensation coming down the glass and it'll make me go you know but I'm I'm I have this this thing which I do which is I fast forward the tape you know and I say that drink if I fast forward in four hours I'm in a hotel room taking drugs and hiding from everybody you know it happens every time and there's not a single time that's ever been won you know never you know so um I know what that is and I can re I can fast forward the tape brilliant and in your Explorations on this topic of trying to understand addiction where have you got to in understanding how much of it is nature and how much of it would you regard as nurture and I'm thinking especially in relation to your own children yeah I mean that that's um that's something which I was I was fascinated by and um and like I think there's a there's a guy if anyone hasn't checked him out that's like Dr Gaba mate if you're in the kind of world of addiction or you kind of have any kind of questions about that he's a really good resource and he can articulate things in a way that I can't you know but he's um he's been a real eye opener for me you know and I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it I do and I see myself in it you know I think you know and and the thing is I think trauma they call it like a big T and A Little T there's big traumas and there's little traumas you know but trauma can be something that happened to you or it can be something that didn't happen enough you know which is another thing which I hear you know because I've met lots of people in my life who say especially addicts who say well I had the most perfect childhood and I grew up in a loving warm home you know and like I come from money and all this kind of stuff it doesn't make sense that it's like that to me and it that that's when those kind of things come into play because it doesn't have to be something to happen to you it can be something that you didn't experience or kind of something that didn't happen to you enough and it's through no thought of anybody else this is not that's a big thing for me as well is that I spent a lot of my life blaming people for the way I behaved and that allowed me to drink and use because that that kind of like well if you've been through what I've been through you do the same you know well there's those people who don't you know and um and but I think the biggest thing right is everything comes from action you know like when it comes to anything to do with this kind of stuff everything comes from action because you're not responsible what happened to you you know you're not responsible for what happened to you but you're absolutely responsible for what you do next you know and that is about you know making the choices in the moment that allow you to be the person you want to be rather than the person that's sucked into that past you know and before we move on to our quick fire questions to finish this interview um you you talked about total honesty so we're sitting here having this conversation and you are weeks away from being back with the band and from touring again and the last time that you had a relapse yeah that happened so what part does fear play in the life of of a recovering addict I think fear of relapse for me is huge you know I live with that and I but I don't when I've not had that I've relapsed you know like so um I don't want to let go of that you know which is um which is not always helpful I can imagine for a lot of people listening that doesn't sound like a healthy way to live but for me the fear of of relapsing is so terrifying that I I like that bit of fear because it keeps me it keeps me from from picking up you know and it keeps me from putting myself in really ridiculous situations which I shouldn't be you know and um and that's and that's about and a lot of my life when the band is about mitigating that in a way you know I'm really open and honest with them and I'm I'm and I tell them what I'm able to accept and what I'm not you know like we have a no drugs rule you know in the band and and now crew now and everyone that works with us that we we don't have drugs around us you know like I don't mind people drinking it doesn't bother me people drinking but if people doing coke in front of me it really affects me you know and it's and it's not it's not because I want to do it it just makes me uneasy you know so I don't ever want to feel that anymore so I'm like if I can I don't have to be in that situation so if everyone can be on board with me um then that's great and lucky my band of call as hell with that and and everyone we work with now is kind of picked and chosen because of that you know so um that's a real that's a real a good way for me to live great and I think that really framing of fear from being a negative emotion to being a positive one for you and almost like a it's like your seat belt that keeps you safe that fear and I think it's okay don't why should society decide that that's a negative emotion it might be for others but it isn't for you and that's it isn't for me but I think I've always been driven by a bit of fear you know like everything I've done has always been driven by in some way fear you know like um but it's a but now I'm much better at leaning into it you know like I run towards things that scare me now which is something which I never thought I would do I would run away from them but if something's challenging or difficult I find myself navigating towards it these days exactly exactly maybe it's a little bit of an addictive tendency but it's um it's I find that you know like if you if you get something good from hard work you know the goods then the goods tends to stay around a bit more you know and the hard work is temporary I I just think you know this conversation is like an ultimate conversation about high performance you know we try and say this to so many people we know if people don't listen to this podcast map because they walk past it in the street and go I'm not listening to successful people blow smoke up the art of other successful people about how easy their life has been and we're like you've clearly never listened to this program yeah you know what you're describing here this is high performance you know being in a successful band despite the shame and the self-loathing managing to become a brilliant dad despite the fact that you have this constant ghost and this shadow of potential addiction managing to be in a successful marriage when you're you've spin on your knees crying in front of your wife asking her to help you and you know the ability to sit here and talk about it in the way that you can now with utter honesty like high performance is not gliding through life thinking this is sweet high performance is being dealt yeah scoop after scoop after scoop of crap yeah and look at you being able to sit here now and of course you might never feel that real sense of Freedom that perhaps you deserve for all your hard work yeah but to have achieved what you have I think is incredible like no thanks man thanks ultimate our job says that discipline equals freedom I really believe that you know I believe there's a freedom in that as long as I keep myself disciplined and I work a certain way I can live a life that I love I love that and if there was sorry I did like I know it's really appropriate place to finish this but I think the metaphor that really jumps out at me is you've described for many years you were putting on masks and I sensed as you sat here in front of us that you're almost this is nakedly you there's no mask you're not hiding behind anything and I'm interested in what there'll be a lot of people listening to this that want that similar liberation of just I just want to be me and be accepted for it is it one message you would give to anybody that is got that kind of longing about how you've done it I think it's um I think I've always known who I was but I was terrified to show people because I didn't think it was enough you know I didn't think that was that was acceptable enough that was cool enough that was good enough but when I gave that [ __ ] up when I went you know what I'm I'm a mess and I'm and I and I need to be but I want to be better you know and and that moment changed something in me that made me that was only positive you know and from then on there is no more mask because you accept who you are in the basis uh in the in the most basic raw form you know which and it's okay to be a mess right it's um a lot of people are a lot of the time you know and I go through stages of being like that now you know like I don't drink and use but sometimes I can get really all over the place you know but I'm I have a way of kind of dealing with that now and um and I think I think for me being being honest and being open and actually not not trying to be something else is the biggest thing and sometimes people don't like for me I didn't know who that was you know I was like without these masks without this kind of like this act that I put on who the [ __ ] am I you know but as soon as I put these masks down you kind of realize who you are and you can build on that but you can't build a mask on a mask on a mask amazing right quick five questions Matt all right the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you would ideally buy into one um Sabri my number one um everything else falls apart without it two gratitude Journal I had to do that every day and three supplementation go on give us your quick 30 seconds on supplementation I mean I I have had to narrow it down at one point I was taking like 76 different supplements you know so I really went a bit addictive over it but um most of them have been taken up by Flagler greens these days I am obsessed with it I don't think it works though dude I've never felt better in my life my nails are crazy my everything about me I mean I feel like this is an ad but honestly like I used to buy it from the states um I used to have to have it shipped over it cost me 70 quid in shipping every time but now it's available in UK's brilliant but I take that every day and um and I have a few things like vitamin D and kind of CBD um I don't do CBD no um I mean I know it's not it's not habit forming or anything but I've not really ever seen any kind of I have in the past but I haven't had this band right yeah and uh yeah maybe CBD is not the right thing so when I first started wearing a whoop band I wasn't taking athletic greens or any supplements or CBD right yeah my HIV on a good day was about 38 right now it's about 80. really yeah holy [ __ ] that's massive that's something that's really good and what you said that nighttime uh or during the day see um I do like trip have like a drip yeah and they say take a couple of drops but I do like a vial like that yeah quite strong stuff and it honestly whoever they're saying the thing take double exactly but I think that listen to me about finding your like again it's about exploration like Johnny Walker yeah on this podcast and we said what's what is high performance he said it's exploration yeah a good point exploring safe stuff yeah yeah like supplementation or gratitude journals like that exploring that stuff yeah is really quite powerful absolutely you know food's part of that for me food's part of supplementation like not eating terrible stuff and feeling good about myself is great you know but um I mean I've narrowed it down now take about 16 different things you know I take a lot of things for brain health as well because I've kind of feel like I've done a lot of damage to my brain cells in my life so I kind of take a lot of stuff you feel like you're cloudy yeah yeah I have done for many years in my life I felt really foggy and um but I I don't feel that bad now these days because I take lots of things which kind of help me yeah what is your biggest strength and your greatest weakness my biggest strength is passion um I can become really passionate about something which can my passion alone sometimes can drive something forward my biggest weakness is passion I can be so passionate about something I can forget to see anything else but that so it's a it's a gift and a curse it's um it's it annoys the [ __ ] out of people we have a high performance book club um we've got thousands of members people love discussing the latest things they've read if you could add a book to our book club what would it be and why um it'd be the war of art by Stephen pressfield it's one of the best books I've ever read like literally I read that book in a day and it was like it was talking to me and now I've learned more from that book I've read it about seven times in my bag right now I'm reading it right now like um I keep going back to it is so powerful where it talks about resistance and um and I never thought of it I thought of that as that part of me that hated myself and maybe it is but it's actually and that's about running towards things that scare you because normally the things that scare me are things that I want you know but I'm too scared to go for it because um I can get in my own way and um and I think just just the subject especially if but it doesn't have to be about art in a in a kind of like in a music or a painting kind of way it can be about anything any goal that you want like there can be something that stops you from doing it and that thing is in innate in every human being and everyone deals with it and it's about knowing what that is and knowing that that's just there and it's never going to go away but you have to beat it every day that's what I try to do what advice would you give to a teenage Mark just starting out I had this amazing moment where I did um a breath work class which I didn't see coming and um I just did this like kind of like really deep breathing class and um and his voice that kept going in my head was it's not your fault and it kind of kept going into my brain and something changed in me during that class and I don't think it's anything like spiritual or something I think it was about me accepting that you know and going it isn't your fault but you are responsible for what you do next and that was a real Dawning Moment On Me so I think I just tell him a bit bloody earlier yeah do you believe it now I do I do I really do I really do you know I believe everything's about action right we talk often on this podcast fault versus responsibility people mistake them [ __ ] like none of this is your fault yeah yeah but the hard truth is it's all your responsibility absolutely absolutely yeah absolutely um is Legacy important to you um I think Legacy is a weird word you know like um I don't really I think you know for me my kids have I suppose my legacy yeah you know you know I've always been you know really worried about anything that I've done in the past hurt them you know and I'm still worried about that you know they weren't around during my really dark times and they weren't and I was away during my last relapse I wasn't at home and so um but they were still around during that time you know so I'm I do think about how much that will impact them um but I try to do everything I can to let them know that I'm who I am right now um but they're [ __ ] awesome they're Wicked kids nice if you could go back to One Moment In Time what would it be and why if I could go back to One Moment In Time I do regret the Brit Awards I am we won two Brits in 2004 and I left as soon as it was finished and went to a flat and use drugs with strangers for seven hours and my band had this incredible night you know and I had this and there was pictures of them in a kebab shop with their Brit Awards in their hand and I wasn't there um I've always agreed that you know because um you know if I could I'd say stick around you know and the final question I'm after this amazing conversation for people that have listen to this is what would you now say is you're one Golden Rule the sort of final thing you'd like to leave ringing in people's ears your secret I guess to high performance my one Golden Rule I suppose it's step up you know like I'm I was very easy to wallow you know and I'm I'm not okay with that anymore I step into things you know I kind of try really hard to step up you know and good things happen when you do sometimes you fail but that's all right you know as long as you kind of step up to the next thing brilliant thank you so much thank you hey guys it's Jake here listen before you go please do me just one favor hit subscribe it makes such a difference to us the more subscribers we get then the bigger the channel becomes the bigger the channel becomes the bigger the names we can attract and the more impact we can have for you so thanks for watching and please subscribe right now all right foreign