'There is this ceiling for Donald Trump': Debate presents massive opportunity for VP Harris

NBC NEWS WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT IS HERE, SHE IS IN PHILADELPHIA TO COVER THE DEBATE TOMORROW NIGHT. SUSAN GLASSER JOINS US, STAFF WRITER FOR THE NEW YORKER BUT AND HUGO LOWE, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT FOR THE GUARDIAN. ALL RIGHT, SUSAN, THE BIDEN- TRUMP MATCHUP SHOWED US JUST HOW MUCH A DEBATE CAN AFFECT A CAMPAIGN. TELL US WHAT IS AT STAKE TOMORROW NIGHT. I'M SO EXCITED, I'M TONGUE- TIED. >> [ LAUGHTER ] YOU ARE EXCITED, I DON'T KNOW, I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF DREAD GOING INTO THIS. I WATCHED DONALD TRUMP AND A LOT OF PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES, AND MANY OF THEM WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS SOME OF THE TOUGHEST POLITICAL DIALOGUE EVER TO WATCHIT, REALLY, SINCE TELEVISION STARTED AIRING THESE THINGS. ES YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP IS A BLIZZARD OF MISINFORMATION AND LIES WHEN HE SPEAKS IN THESE DEBATES. HE HAS A HISTORY OF CERTAINLY TALKING VERY AGGRESSIVELY OVER HIS OPPONENTS. I DON'T KNOW IF THE RULES WILL ALLOW THAT OR NOT THIS TIME. THE STAKES ARE INCREDIBLY HIGH HERE. WE HAVE ALREADY CROSSED THE THRESHOLD OF THE MOST IMPACTFUL, AND I KNOW PEOPLE HATE IT WHEN YOU USE THAT AS A WORD, BUT THE MOST IMPACT DEBATE EVER IN THE SENSE THAT THE FIRST DEBATE COST JOE BIDEN INDIRECTLY TO HAVE TO DROP OUT OF THE RACE, BUT I STILL THINK THIS ONE COULD BE ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES OF OUR LIFETIME, ASIDE FROM THAT ONE. THERE ARE SO MANY QUESTIONS STILL ABOUT HARRIS, INCREDIBLE PRESSURE ON HER, AND DONALD TRUMP, I MEAN, LOOK, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. >> THE REASON THESE TWO HAVE NEVER MET IN PERSON IS BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP DO NOT ACCEPT A PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER. IT IS BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP, WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, CHOSE NOT TO WORK WITH THE SENATE. SO TOMORROW NIGHT, DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO GET WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR SINCE SHE BECAME THE NOMINEE. SHE WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROSECUTE THE CASE AGAINST HIM ON STAGE, NEXT TO HIM, AND SHOW AMERICA WHO SHE IS. IS THAT HER PLAN? >> HER PLAN IS CERTAINLY TO SHOW AMERICA WHO SHE IS, AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO A LOT OF SOURCES WHO ARE FAMILIAR WITH HER DEBATE PREPARATIONS, AND HER MISSION IS DEFINITELY TO LAY OUT WHAT HER VISION FOR AMERICA IS, AND BY DOING THAT, IT IS REALLY TO ALSO TELL AMERICANS WHO SHE IS. THERE ARE A LOT OF AMERICANS WHO ARE STILL NOT TOTALLY REALLY UNDERSTANDING HER BACKGROUND, SO SHE REALLY WANTS TO GO AND GIVE A BIOGRAPHY, TALKING ABOUT HER MOTHER, TALKING ABOUT HER MIDDLE-CLASS BACKGROUND, BUT SHE ALSO WANTS TO LAY OUT , HER POLICY STANCES AND GIVE VOTERS, INCLUDING UNDECIDED VOTERS WERE GOING TO BE WATCHING THIS VERY CLOSELY, SHE WANTS TO GIVE THEM SPECIFIC THINGS SHE IS GOING TO DO A HARRIS ADMINISTRATION HAPPENS TO YOU THAT'S WHY WE SEE SOME POLICY ROLLOUTS AND SHE PUT A LO POLICY PAGE UP ON HER WEBSITE TODAY, REALLY LAYING OUT A NUMBER OF ISSUES AND STANCES. BUT SHE ALSO WANTS TO GO AND NEEDLE DONALD TRUMP. SHE REALLY WANTS TO GO AND GET UNDER HIS SKIN, AND REALLY HER ADVISERS AND HER TEAM WANT DONALD TRUMP TO GO FULL DONALD TRUMP, AND WHAT THEY MEAN BY THAT IS THEY WANT HIM TO LASH OUT, THEY WANT HIM TO GO PERSONAL ON HER, THEY WANT HIM TO SAY ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE DEROGATORY AND MAYBE EVEN RACIST, THEIR LANGUAGE, NOT MINE, ABOUT HER, SO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE CAN REALLY SEE HIM AT HIS FULLEST, BUT THEY ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT SHE REMAINS CALM AND DOESN'T GET PULLED INTO THOSE PERSONAL ATTACKS. THERE REALLY WANT HER TO BE FOCUSED ON EVERYDAY AMERICANS AND HOW THEIR LIVES ARE GOING TO BE BETTERED BY HER ADMINISTRATION, WHILE ALSO IN SOME WAYS TRYING TO BAIT DONALD TRUMP INTO MAKING A MISTAKE. >> HE REPORTED THAT TRUMP'S E TEAM IS WORRIED ABOUT WHICH DONALD IS GOING TO SHOW UP ON THE DEBATE STAGE TOMORROW NIGHT, BUT HERE IS THE THING, WHETHER IT IS NAUGHTY DONALD, GOOD DONALD, TYRA DONALD, FIRED UP DONALD, HIS SUPPORTERS STICK WITH THEM NO MATTER WHAT. SO, WHY DOES HIS PERFORMANCE EVEN MATTER TO THEM? IF IT IS DISASTROUS, THEY WILL RATIONALIZE IT. >> I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS GOING ON HERE. I THINK CERTAINLY, THE TRUMP IN CAMPAIGN [ INAUDIBLE ] THE MODEL THAT TRUMP SHOULD FOLLOW, AND THE WAY THEY SEE THAT IS THAT WAS HAPPY TRUMP, THAT WAS GOOD TRUMP, THAT WAS TRUMP WHO WAS FAST ON HIS FEET AND HAD LITTLE QUIPS AND COULD INTERJECT ABOUT GOLF AND IT MADE HIM LOOK MORE PERSONABLE. AND ON THE FLIPSIDE, IF YOU GET ANGRY TRUMP, THAT IS THE REAL CONCERN, WHERE HE STARTS MAKING REMARKS, WHERE HE STARTS MAKING REMARKS ABOUT HARRIS, AND THOSE ARE THE AREAS THEY REALLY DON'T WANT TO GET INTO BECAUSE IT PUTS OFF EVEN HIS OWN SUPPORTERS. ANECDOTALLY, THE QUIZ EVEN THE UBER DRIVER WHO TEND TO BE TRUMP SUPPORTERS ABOUT WHAT TRUMP SHOULD DO, THEY ALWAYS SAE THIS MAN TALKS TOO MUCH, AND WHEN HE TALKS TOO MUCH AND GETS RILED UP AND FRUSTRATED, HE SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT AND IT IS PAINFUL TO WATCH. AND IF IT IS PAINFUL TO WATCH FOR TRUMP SUPPORTERS, IT IS GOING TO BE EXCRUCIATING FOR UNDECIDED VOTERS, FOR INDEPENDENCE, AND FOR PEOPLE WHO GENERALLYEN -- MAYBE THEY DON'T LIKE KAMALA HARRIS'S POLICIES, BUT THEY ALSO PUT -- FEEL PUT OFF BY TRUMP, AND THAT IS THE SLIVER THE CAMPAIGN AIDES TO WIN THIS THING. AND I THINK THAT IS A MAJOR CONCERN, IF YOU CAN TURN OFF EVEN TRUMP SUPPORTERS, THINK OF WHAT IT CAN DO TO INDEPENDENCE. >> SUSAN, AT THIS POINT, IT IS LIKE WE ALREADY KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, SO DOES THAT MAKE BOIT THAT MUCH MORE OF AN OPPORTUNITY OR A RISK FOR KAMALA HARRIS WHO A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY DON'T KNOWOP -- [ INAUDIBLE ] >> TO BE THE ALTERNATIVE TO TRUMP, THERE IS A STRONG SENSE THAT THERE IS IN FACT A DURABLE , ANTI-TRUMP, NON-TRUMP MAJORITY IN THIS COUNTRY. HE LOST THE POPULAR VOTE NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE. THERE IS NO INDICATION IN SURVEYS THAT HE HAS GAINED ENORMOUSLY ATNEW FOLLOWERS. MAN PEOPLE WOULD SAY IT IS REMARKABLE, GIVEN EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED, THAT TRUMP HAS HELD ONTO HIS SUPPORT, BUT HE CERTAINLY HAS NOT TILTED UP INTO A CONSIDERABLE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY. IN FACT, HE IS THE ONLY PRESIDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY SINCE POLLING BEGAN NEVER TO HAVE SUPPORT OF 50% OF THE COUNTRY FOR AT LEAST ONE DAY OF HIS PRESIDENCY. SO, THERE IS THIS CEILING FOR DONALD TRUMP. SO, FOR HARRIS, THE TRICK IS TO MAKE THE ELECTION A REFERENDUM ON TRUMP AND REMINDING PEOPLE WHY THEY DIDN'T WANT HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE, WHILE ALSO CROSSING THE BARRIER, I THINK, G FOR PEOPLE TO BE ACCEPTABLE PE ENOUGH AS THE ALTERNATIVE. AND THAT IS WHERE I THINK SHE HAS A PARTICULARLY DIFFICULT JOB IN THE DEBATE TOMORROW, BECAUSE IF SHE JUST PROSECUTES THE CASE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, PERHAPS SHE WOULD HAVE DONE ENOUGH TO REALLY INTRODUCE NT YOURSELF TO INDEPENDENT VOTERS OR EVEN BIDEN 2020 VOTERS WHO ARE INCLINED TO VOTE FOR HER, BUT MIGHT NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE ENOUGH YET THAT THEY KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT HER. >> I DON'T KNOW IF DEBATE PREP WILL ACTUALLY MATTER. BOTH OF THEM ARE VERY SKILLED DEBATERS. I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT HUGO WAS JUST SAYING, HOW TRUMP'S ST TEAM -- THERE HOPING THEY GET THE TRUMP THAT SHOWED UP FOR THE BIDEN DEBATE, BUT HERE IS THE THING. DE EVEN IF THAT DONALD TRUMP SHOWS UP, HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING EXCEPTIONAL THAT NIGHT. IT WAS JOE BIDEN WHO SINGLE- HANDEDLY LOST. IF HE FACES OFF AGAINST KAMALA HARRIS AT THE SAME TRUMP HE WAS TWO MONTHS AGO ON THE DEBATE STAGE, [ INAUDIBLE ] >> CERTAINLY, AND I WAS JUST TALKING TO A HARRIS AID, WHO SAID WHILE PRESIDENT BIDEN ID MIGHT HAVE HAD ONE OF THE WORST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE PERFORMANCES IN HISTORY, SOMEONE WHO CAME IN VERY CLOSE IN SECOND WAS DONALD TRUMP. DONALD TRUMP SHOWED HIMSELF AS SOMEONE WAS LYING PROFUSELY, WHO WAS STUMBLING, MUMBLING, DO NOT HAVE A HANDLE ON INFORMATION. THAT IS THE TYPE OF HTRUMP THA VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS IS HOPING SHOWS UP TOMORROW NIGHT, AND SHE WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE SEE THAT, WHICH IS PART OF THE REASON WHY THERE WAS A BACK AND FORTH ABOUT MUTED MICROPHONES, BECAUSE THE HARRIS CAMPAIGN REALLY WANTS PEOPLE TO SEE TRUMP MUMBLING AND SEEING ALL THE THINGS YOU MIGHT SAY UNDER HIS BREATH, INCLUDING EVEN CURSING AT HER, USING DEROGATORY LANGUAGE. SO, THERE REALLY HOPING THAT IF HE IS THAT SAME DONALD TRUMP, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO USE THIS AGAINST HIM. AT THE SAME HITIME, HE DOES WAN TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE WALK AWAY FROM THIS DEBATE -- NOT SHE BEAT UP DONALD TRUMP AND SHE REALLY DID ATTACK THEM AND LANDED A BUNCH OF PUNCHES, SHE NEEDS TO ALSO COME AWAY FEELING LIKE THERE ARE PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THOSE VOTERS WHO SAY I HAVE A CLEAR VISION OF WHAT A HARRIS ADMINISTRATION WOULD LOOK LIKE, I HAVE A CLEAR VISION OF WHY SHE IS NOT DONALD TRUMP I ALSO HAVE A CLEAR VISION, FRANKLY, WHY SHE IS NOT A THIRD TERM OF BIDEN, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO SOME HARRIS CAMPAIGN AIDES AND OTHER PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH DEBATE PREPARATIONS, WHO HAVE BEEN TELLING ME THAT THERE IS THIS SORT OF REAL DEBATE GOING ON ABOUT HOW SHE DIFFERENTIATES ITSELF FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN. SHE IS LOYAL TO HIM, SHE DEFINITELY SUPPORTS THEM, SUPPORTS A LOT OF HIS POLICIES, BECAUSE OF COURSE SHE IS A SITTING VICE PRESIDENT, BUT SHE NEEDS TO DIFFERENTIATE HERSELF. AND SHE DOES HAVE SOME SH DIFFERENT VIEWS, INCLUDING ON CAPITAL GAINS AND SOME TAX POLICY THAT SHE ANWROTE OUT LAS WEEK, SO IT IS GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING FOR ME TO SEE WHAT ELSE HE DOES TO TRY TO DIFFERENTIATE HERSELF. BECAUSE WE CAN EXPECT WE ARE GOING TO SEE DONALD TRUMP TRY TO DO SOMETHING LIKE LAY BLAME FOR THE CHAOS THAT HAPPENED AFTER THE AFGHANISTAN WITHDRAWAL AND A NUMBER OF OTHER POLICIES THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS PULLED OUT, BUT SHE IS THE VICE PRESIDENT,