Positivity vs. Doom: Voters React to Conventions (with John Anzalone) | The Focus Group Podcast

this is a party that again i' I've said many times it's like a defibrillator is hidden right it's like we've had a defibrillator in two stints and we're back out we're back out playing tennis you know and that's not where we thought we were going to be like you know you know there's a certain amount of being grateful that like we're back in it baby hello everyone and welcome to the focus group podcast I'm Sarah Longwell publisher of the bull workk and this week we are assessing the aftermath from the Democratic National Convention that aftermath is mostly good as you heard last week on my show with Joe perticone the first night of the convention was a bit of a snoozer with voters in our focus groups but the rest of the convention was pretty good while it was clear that voters weren't hanging on every word from Chicago voters did like the positivity they saw from Democrats and now this is Labor Day weekend and it is the traditional start of the fall campaign so to evaluate the post DNC polls and to compare this Democratic National Convention to previous Cycles my guest today is John anzalone partner at impact research former pollster for Barack Obama Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden John thanks for being here hey thanks for having me Sarah so you're a pollster but how many focus groups do you do you do do you just do focus groups all the time too well I used to I would say that you know I'm over the a thousand Mark in my career cuz I've been doing this for 40 years right and I've I've in you know in the last five years not so much you know we've got a whole kind of team of people who do these now but they were without a doubt I think my most favorite part of research um as you know because you do them to kind of get a granular view of what people are thinking in their own words is really really important for campaigns and for you know staff and candidates to see without a doubt yeah we're just a satisfy my desperate curiosity and convey them in a podcast uh which is what I do so I want to talk you were you and I we were together at the convention uh we were doing like a little thing with the cook political report and the um uh what's it called ioc at uh University of Chicago yeah uh yeah Institute of politics at University of Chicago with uh with David Axelrod so we were doing a little panel uh but if you stayed there for the convention so I had only been my last convention was I was Tampa for Mitt Romney uh back in 2012 but I'd never been to a Democratic National Convention so how did like how does it normally work with the polling bumps everybody's like oh postc convention you get a bump is does that normally happen yeah I I think it's overstated right and I think that you know you can't have a normal measure or expectation this time like you can in previous times because the month leading up to it was kind of like the convention bump right I mean she was writing a tsunami and she did it so well and during that time you know Democrats were just so happy you know to have her as the nominee and to be back in this race that her consolidation if you will um including Beyond Democrats some Independence and and women I think really acted like what was traditionally the post convention bounce and so I never had anticipated that you would see additional bounce and I think that you know what will play out post convention post Labor Day when the bell rings will be like we always see it which is what I call step two right step one is consolidation of your base whether you're democrat or republican step two is oh we each get to spend a billion dollars chasing down a really Slim Universe of Independence um that is hard to do it's hard to do for the Democrat it's hard to do for the Republican and we've had two back-to-back races decided by you know 75,000 votes and 45,000 votes in three states and you have to anticipate we're going to be in that same scenario again you know since we're talking about it uh I have strong views on this but who do you think that the that billion dollars that they're chasing like who are they aimed at who who is that L late breaking group so I think there there's two ways to think about this and the first one is traditional right like okay there is a persuasion Universe like we know that there's a universe of people who break late you never that never hit me harder than in 2016 I mean there was a universe that broke late and it broke against Hillary Clinton I would say it's because on October 28th Comey came and opened up another FBI investigation and made her just as big a risk As Trump and therefore they went with the new guy but there's that Universe of persuade persuadable voters and you know you look at them in public polls and they kind of look not dissimilar from past they're under 50 they're really independent meaning party identification they're non- colge educated voters mostly white but not all um and they're disproportionately women and it's just you know and I and in some of that you can you can say hey they're also lwi information voters all of those scream low information under 50 right uh non- col educated working women white who again don't have a hell of a lot of time to go and look for information they're raising kids they're going to work they're dealing with you know the sandwich generation and Healthcare etc etc um so they're low information and they're hard to get so that's my first bucket right without a doubt the second bucket is a little different because it's the really hard to get for each side for us it's important to just narrow the margins for example in Rural and small town America if you can just do it like like by three points like you know don't get your ass kicked you know um 75 25 get your ass kicked 7030 that makes a difference when you're winning a state like Wisconsin by 10,000 votes right uh American Bridge the uh big independent expenditure run by Bradley beok in 2020 did that brilliantly they pegged 70 counties in Wisconsin Michigan and Pennsylvania that were Obama Biden counties mostly Rural and they went in there and they communicated and they filled a void that we never actually ever get to and they moved those County votes by 3 to 5% and it really made a difference and so I would look at all of the demographics there right I mean who does Democrats have trouble with right and go in there and and try to just narrow the margin a little bit and you can think of it a third lane really I'm adding the third lane Sarah which is where do you go expand where do you go expand right we never we only think about persuasion we never think about expansion and I think there's real opportunities for democrats for example with 65 and overs who Biden never dropped with it was really one of his strongest groups um he was doing really well with them Democrats have a lot to talk to them about right $35 insulin $2,000 yearly prescription drug caps negotiation with Medicare you know protecting Social Security uh and Medicare Etc and so I think that there's expansion universes um you you know Suburban women potentially Etc so that's kind of how I how how I would think about those what about white workingclass women so um I'm going to have a problem with you on this podcast which is that I'm just going to want to nerd out on stuff and we're gonna have to get to some of the sound but like I I feels like kamla uh part of what she's doing uh absolutely right putting her base back together but it does seem like whether it is abortion uh or some other things in the water she's doing slightly better with uh White working class women it seems like there's room to grow there uh do you think she can yeah I do and I think that um they are taking a look at her like right I mean I think that in a lot of ways if you watch you know KLA Harris's speech or Tim walls' speech and many other people's speeches they were in in a lot of ways speaking to it um I think KLA Harris has done something really important that we kind of wanted to happen which is she is acknowledging people's pain with cost of living regardless of whether the inflation rate is evened out she's ackn in the pain like she put out a housing ad which I think was fantastic you know talking about how she was in rental housing her mom saved for a decade to buy a house now it's impossible to buy a house and what she's going to do to help people you know get back to where they can buy a house she has that story if you listen to her economic speech in Raleigh I guess a couple Fridays ago same thing she's acknowledging the pain it's sounding very Bill Clinton is right she's not like Rah ring you know um unemployment numbers GDP numbers the stock market uh stuff like that which people don't care about you and I know that people look at the economy through the prism of cost of living totally and she's taking that head on um and she's going to continue doing that this Loops back to your acknowledgement about or curiosity about whether we can uh expand with working uh class women um and the answer is yes that's how you do it I also think that there is a lesson to be learned in the 2022 um gret Whitmer election right um I'm I did her polling um again she connected very well with working women who didn't have a college degree but we also saw with the abortion referendum on the ballot and when we were doing focus groups the the non- colge educated women had much more of an interest in what this all meant for them and they actually acknowledged that quite L Rich Suburban women you know they they can they can take care of it they can go to places they'll get it figured out and they were really worried about them and their daughters and nieces and Friends whatever about whether they were going to be trapped right whether they had any solutions of Reproductive Rights um if everything got shut down um because of money because of travel because of access Etc and so I think that there is a a real acknowledgment uh among that group of women which will keep them really interested in the Reproductive Rights debate yeah uh I agree with that okay I want to get into the public reaction uh to the convention uh we convened two groups the day after it ended uh one of them was the Trump to Biden voters that we talked to a lot our our flippers uh and then we talked to uh 2020 Trump voters who were down on Trump and so many of them had voted for Trump twice this is a group I like talking to uh where we kind of Scream for people who voted for Trump uh especially in 2020 so not all of these were two-time Trump voters but a lot of them were um but we they definitely voted for him in 20120 and but they rate him as doing a very bad job or say that they are very unlikely to vote for him again so these are also people in our persuadable universe that I like to talk to so let's listen first the first group of sound is going to be from uh the Trump 16 bid 2020 voters let's listen so I watched the DNC one more than I the RNC but DNC I I think yes it was full of Hope which is a refreshing change and if you watch the RNC it was Doom and Gloom oh you're about to die right now if you don't vote for him that's that is just a lot of BS and fear drives a lot and that's what they are trying to do over there is just scare you into going back to Trump but for what the D is a felon for God's sake but yes the BNC was fluff but at least it was hope and hopeful it was not Doom and Gloom so uh it's not going to change my mind I I'm still going to vote the way I'm going vote but it was please good to see hope I was impressed at the DNC that you had former presidents on you had members of the party on and it was refreshing and upbeat the uh GOP I will have to admit I started laughing when they had Hulk Hogan rip off his shirt I mean it's like please you know uh and I noticed none of Trump's former cabinet no former Republican president has come out and endorsed them and to me you know that kind of says something you know if the members of the particular party are not even going to stand up for their candidate and when you have members of the Republican Party standing up and endorsing a Democratic candidate to me that that also sends a message and the Republicans that were up there were you know those Republicans that fall into the category of being conservatives they were what I grew up as knowing what a republican is well I was only able to watch one night because this morning I had to get up at 2: am. so I couldn't step and watch it last night but I feel like there is a lot of Hope and it's positive it's not all tearing the other people down and that's all that Trump seems to do is tear people down and criticize you know he's like a sixth grade bully but you know tamla she's she's got a lot of positive things to say I thought it was very upbeat a lot of good I mean you got to understand she's only had a month that she's known that she's running for president so I thought it was really good what I was able to see um I got to see a bit of Michelle Obama very very positive and I'm trying to think of who else talked that you know there was some like you said former Republicans that served with Trump and I can't think of her name the one girl that came on and spoke just the fact that she's even there speaks volumes Stephanie Grisham spoke yes yes yeah so um that to me speaks a lot I felt that kamala's speech was rehearsed she stayed on her speech most of the time she didn't Meander I felt that uh I was disappointed because I wanted to see Beyonce and Taylor Swift and they never showed up it was reported that they were going to show up so another broken promise and I just felt that it was more the same so I'm trying very much to not get sprinkled with the fairy dust I'm I'm trying to keep my eyes open like I feel like most of my family is like it just feels so good I sometimes feel like Democrats can be emotional voters um I'm trying to make a very rational decision when placing or casting the votes so you know mostly mostly good reviews here uh a couple of you know couple people still trying to be hard-headed about it but people are getting swept up in The Vibes what struck me about this as a swing voter group um was sort of two things one is how much I think four swing voters I felt very much like the convention was for a lot of these swing voters um and that you know having the former Republicans having kinzinger having uh Trump's former staff members uh you know the the mayor of Mesa Arizona like a lot of Republicans up on stage making the case against Trump and and to a lesser degree but still for Camala Harris felt like that landed with a lot of these voters but the thing that really stood out to me was how much people were like yeah man feels good feels like feels like they're being positive uh and and sort of coupled with the Doom and Gloom uh do you feel like there is something about this moment like you've you've seen a lot of Elections you've picked up on a lot of Vibes uh are people ready for the positivity like are people done with the Doom and Gloom yeah so I'd say a couple things one is is that you know this convention felt like a celebration and it felt very much like 2008 Denver um with Barack Obama being the nominee and Joe Biden being the the VP candidate I mean that was an Inc I've been to seven started a convention started in uh 1988 in Atlanta um and again even '92 which was a surprise you got to remember he Clinton was kind of a surprise you know nominee in a lot of ways and then he was he was in third place at one point but even 92 um was not as exciting as this and so it felt the vibe felt like a celebration where you know a month or so ago everyone you know didn't think that it was going to be very much of a a convention that that had hope or or or or that was going to be uh fun um so I think that there's no doubt that this is a party that again i' I've said many times it's like a defibrillator is hidden right it's like we've had a defibrillator in two stints and we're back out we're back out playing tennis you know and that's not where we thought we were going to be like you know you know there's a certain amount of being grateful that like we're back in it baby right um and and that becomes uh really important and again I don't think that anyone's taking anything for granted but the the first guy when he said hope and CH he said hope and change and was very very 2008 versus Doom Gloom you know I sat there and watched the Republican convention a little bit and they were all in for their candidate right and you kind of felt like they they felt like they were going to win and then boom this has all changed and you know if you were in Chicago you felt like we had a really good chance of winning and one of the things that we learned in 2020 which I think is really important is that voters did not they voters wanted to hear what Joe Biden had to say about what what he wanted to do as president what his agenda was they didn't want to hear about Trump and anytime there was Trump in a frame or Trump in an ad they turned it off and I think that we're going to see a lot of that is that people are still really getting to know KLA Harris they like what they see they have made up their mind about Trump they meaning they know everything that they need to know um and he gets in the way quite frankly sometimes of her message and I think you heard that in the focus group uh clip that you that you showed is that people want to know what she's about is she going to be on their side what is she GNA do as president and I actually think that for most of the convention that was what she was trying to do yeah you know it's interesting um I think we're going to get into this as we go here too but uh when we hit that point where it looked like Biden might step aside or like we were talking about whether or not it would happen and we were trying to evaluate okay what would an alternative look look like and I was listening to voters and I was I was nervous about KLA because uh I'd been listening for years to voters talk about the negative impression the negative impression they had of her um but what was interesting is uh that it was an impression right like one as I as I started to think about it more I started to be like you know I think there is upside there because voters would be like I don't know her I don't see her I don't know what she's about uh but they and that gave them a negative impression of her because they didn't feel like they saw her but it also meant they didn't see her they didn't know they didn't know what she was about she could reintroduce herself to people and it felt like that's what the convention was it was like I'm going to introduce myself to these people and it sounds like that was effective people are coming away feeling good and positive now about it yeah a couple things one is by time she got to the convention her favorables had already increased by 14 points yeah right and so she did get that um and again I'll go back to 2019 when we were doing focus groups for for Biden this is a guy who' been vice president for years been a senator for 30 something years and people knew nothing about him like it was crazy right and again if you you know kind of watch our first commercials people didn't know about the tragedy of him and his wife and baby girl and all you just simple things that he was a stutter or whatever that that he had done the Brady Bill and all these type of of really good things on gun control etc etc and so I think she was in that position and it was interesting because when this all happened it's like I had an impression of her I don't you know didn't know her well and like things just ignited like wow people like you know she just was again writing this way and I just had to go see it I had to like see if this was real and I flew to Atlanta and went to the uh event in Georgia State University and there's 12,000 people and I didn't know what to expect I've been going to events for 40 years it was nuts it was electric and I was sitting next to the young African-American mayor of Montgomery Alabama Steven Reed and he looked at and I looked at him and he was thinking the exact same thing that I was thinking as an African-American man which was this crowd is really diverse he like we were like like the the middle-age white women convention was there right and so something was happening but it was something was happening with Cala Harris too she was no longer the VP she was the Democratic nominee she was speaking like that she was untethered she was comfortable she was funny she was confident she was focused I mean like she had the economic message down she had the contrasting message down and she just felt like herself like she had found who she was and you know she's met this moment and I think that it's very fair what you said which was you didn't really know what to expect or how PE you know um to feel about her and now you feel about her what she has done to rise to the occasion yeah you have to applaud that because guess what not everyone does you know not everys the moment yeah JD Vance and I'm not here to on JD Vance he hasn't met the moment right yeah you're welcome to do that that's but Tim Tim Walls has and again I mean like this this has happened throughout I mean you know we've had you know other Democratic nominees like Michael du caucus didn't excite anyone he became our nominee like yeah you know I mean it's just again the most exciting thing about the 1988 convention and I was on the floor with this was Jesse Jackson's speech it wasn't Michael's speech you know all right look most of us aren't trying to become Olympians but who doesn't want to feel strong healthy and end the day with some energy left in the tank but that's not happening without good nutrition that's why I take Field of Greens it's whole organic fruits and vegetables no extracts no labade stuff just 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Biden voters but then we did a group of trump voters uh now granted we screen them for being kind of down on Trump uh but I want to listen to How striking the responses were from this group I was kind of impressed with with the positivity I mean after watching more of the RNC for three or four nights what it was on I mean I wanted to jump off a bridge I mean the bridge down by the border because I was like God we must live in a horrible place and everybody's horrible so I respond to kind of a positive message but I heard more of like the K do part of this that it seemed to come out through Walts and even like Harris just her background where she's been on directory of doing things and actually I don't know if it's right or wrong I don't know but it seems like she's done stuff I caught part of it last night in the uh part where Ruben goo from Arizona and it was really talking about veterans in the military service and I mean that's important to me I have a lot of veterans that work for me and uh we've kind of left them to dry out there I mean we talk about like their service and stuff like that that makes me ill about trump it was kind of like a a ju toos to hear the Democrats come across as like we're pro America we're pro strength and we're damn sure like Pro like service and Veterans I was like yeah I like that again there's a lot more I need to learn and like we have what 78 days or something to do that but down where it really like came to like a crystal clear for me was during the Republican National Convention and just the speakers that they had was like you know Don Jr and then like Hulk Hogan and then Donald Trump came on like not one after another but it all sounded the same to me and it sounded like I was watching a a wrestling on Saturday night you know where like they have the managers that scream loud and stuff before they come in and say the craziest they can think of just to stay on TV just to get the ratings yeah you know they about the border and stuff like that the border is important to me that it works right not crime is very low through the Border it's just a chaos that affects those communities and they haven't done a damn thing about it so I just think he's trying to stay out of jail to be honest with yeah so I think cela's message was kind of unexpected like her backgrounds I wasn't very familiar with her like fully so I kind of like to learn that she comes from like a humble beginning sort of say and there's like a lot of things that are relatable for people that are in the lower in or middle class even it kind of just reiterated where they stand politically some of it I do not agree with but I do think that the way they are approaching it is just like more healthier and like that it is more positive I think that the way that the speakers sort of messaged things was a lot more down toe and a lot more relatable for a lot of Americans I uh listen to Tim Waltz and I thought he really came across as like a relatable guy that I think a lot of people can can empathize with so that was my biggest takeaway because I I had never heard of him before until he got the the vice presidential nomination so it was interesting to learn more about him okay so here's the thing these are all Trump voters and I want to go back to a point that you made earlier uh and I want to stop on it and explore it which is about low information voters uh so we say low information and my first response is always to defend I don't like the term low information because I I I don't know what an alternative is it's because I what I want to be is like I like I like busy voters yeah right they're they're not these are not stupid people these aren't stupid people they are just people who have lives other priorities frankly we are the sick ones John we're we the problem look at the problem it's me being too invested in this stuff and but I did I I interrupted you I'm sorry but I really put these in several buckets like I have a 31 29 22 and 20y old okay and I constantly pepper them with where they get their information and it's just so diffused and I still don't understand it like how are they getting you know information from Snapchat and Instagram I just see pictures right so that confuses me right and so I don't think that they're busy I think that they're either you know I don't want to say lazy because I'll get beat up but or they're not interested or whatever they they get information when they want to get it so that's a bucket young people are super hard to get a hold of and we spend a lot of money doing it and most of it gets pissed away and then we have people you know my mother's past but it was like her she was raising kids she was dealing with a disabled husband she had a job she was like you know you know dealing with rumage sales you know really she working women like do everything that right and so they're not lazy they're just frakin busy yeah and so there's just different bucket of low information yeah I was for only only to say that I'm just I use I want us to we're using that term as practitioners not as a judgment yeah and to say that what's interesting about people who are sort of like they come to this during an election every year and so sometimes people are like How could somebody vote for Trump twice and then just like turn around and like like kamla Harris and I'll say that for a lot of these voters and I guess I'm interested in your opinion on this they're they're coming up and they're they're saying they're coming up for air they know there's an election they're going to vote in it and they're like all right which one of these people are going to do something for me and for them I think that there's a moment where they're here like Donald Trump was like making a lot of crazy promises and he talked in a way that was accessible to them and he seemed different a lot of people gave him a shot and I think there's a fair number of those voters who could look at KLA Harris and be like and Tim Walls and say what these voters are saying which is like they seem like they're they're positive they seem like they're for the people I've heard a number of people say like for the people or regular uh there's a lot of people talking about walls in a way like he's like an ordinary guy he's a regular guy in the focus groups uh and I wonder if you think that there is a world in which loow info voters which Donald Trump has done very well with because he's a celebrity uh because he's in pop culture that KLA Harris could kind of beat him there could also do really well with these low information folks who look at the race sort of for the first time and like I don't know she seems good so I I want to step back okay and I think part of this is default meaning we were pre- debate almost 70% of America did not want this Choice yeah right they just didn't want this Choice it wasn't just a Biden thing it wasn't just a trump thing it was like I don't want this choice I don't want these two to be my choice and you took took one of those people away and the other guy was still there right with over 50% unfavorable and so I think she just she filled a vacuum now you have to meet a you know you have to meet a bar and again we talked about how she met the moment and I think she's met that bar I think that what one of the focus group respondents said about walls being relatable is true and he has hit a cord himself and so I think people have been surprised at how much they like her and how you know relatable she has become but guess what they were not part of this 70% combination of what people didn't want and you take one of those away and all of a sudden I think the warts of trump on top of the warts that were already there become magnified so you meet the moment with someone you know who is palatable right acceptable and now relatable and I think it explains a lot about why they're doing so well hey what do you make of the fact that she seems to have Sid stepped like she's doing this happy warrior thing she's talking about building out the middle class and yet in no way does she seem to be well I guess that's not entirely true because it's possible voters will still hold her accountable for what they perceive to be a negative economy but she seems to be getting her own look on this I I think people truly um believe that the vice president you know is is is again happy warrior right is someone other to support you know the president and not necessarily driving policy etc etc doesn't mean that you can't take accomp you know take advantage of accomplishments I don't think they are you know make give making her responsible for what they may have problems with Visa um uh Joe Biden whether it's fair or not right the economy the Border whatever whatever crime um I think she's getting a a pretty decent pass and I think that that is more about the mentality not the mentality but how Americans view the vice president you know I mean you know whether you're a Democrat or or whether you're a republican quite frankly yeah uh all right uh I want to talk about Harris a little bit more because I cannot underscore enough how sudden dramatic the turnaround she's had in her favorability ratings including how people talk about her in the groups uh we've been like Focus grouping like crazy uh trying to get as much information as we can um and so on the day Biden dropped out her favorability rating you kind of hit this before was 15 points underwater in the 538 average and then the day like today the day we're recording they're only two points underwater so just uh and look other averages will give you a slightly different result but I think that the direction is clear I mean just a huge rebound uh and through several weeks of groups we've generally seen that the more people see of Harris the more they like her which is actually the inverse of Donald Trump the more people see Donald Trump the less they like him so this is about to be a long clip but I want to stress that these votes these folks that we're about to hear from all voted for Trump in 2020 and many of them voted for him twice so let's listen to what they said specifically about Harris as far as KLA Harris goes I mean I have really seen a lot of her past doings now I know she was I know she is an attorney and if she was a prosecutor so I mean in that respect she's going to have a little bit more idea of what's right and wrong I think as compared to somebody else and something else that come to my mind just now and I'm sorry if this offends anybody the fact that she is a woman of color and she is married to a man that is white I think that's going to say a lot to the American people about you know the non-racial crap that's going on you know she's obviously not racist and that's going to be a good thing I mean I watched a little piece of it last night or night before last rather I don't know I'm just gonna let you go back about your business there but I like her I'm not a Democrat I don't care about the Democrats that much but her I would vote for simply because of the foundation she's got under her it's like if you're going to build a house don't build it on Sand now the fact that she's a female and she might be elected president is a fantastic is women's rights you know also she doesn't have any scandals so you know you don't hear of any Dart in her background which is nice you know and she uh she's a child of immigrants so that I think that's going to help her understand both sides of the Border issue and I think that that she's going to be very good for that and the fact that she's a lawyer and she reminds me a lot of Obama just the way she carries herself the way she speaks and I didn't really like Obama when he was President because I was a republican but since he's not a president anymore and I've seen some interviews with him like wow he's such a nice guy I was like I should have given him more of a chance she does come off like more positive more professional educated uh versus what we already had initially my like sentiment towards her was a little bit more negative just because when she was uh vice president I often heard that she was not very Pro active with dealing with the border and that was her main role and additionally like there was a huge traffic of immigrants coming in and that just showcased like her ability so prior to this like learning more about her I had like a negative perception towards her like when she was a prosecutor she prosecuted a couple of people like a little too harshly so although you know they did commit a crime and they should you know pay obviously um it was just is like too aggressive but honestly even though I may not agree with her I still see her as the stronger candidate I hadn't really had a lot of uh exposure to her the past three years just uh with the vice presidential role as we've kind of touched on but I will say so far like just hearing her speak like she seems to be very professional I think the uh DNC also kind of highlighted that she came from like pretty humble beginnings and I think that work ethic and that Drive is something that I really respect I think she's a bit too Progressive for me she hasn't unveiled too many policies even though she just entered the race you would think that she would have been working off of Biden's so that to me is a little concerning um also fact that she hasn't really sat for an interview yet or even in a press conference and I know and Biden also wasn't big on that either and at least Trump does answer questions when when reporters shout them at him so that to me is a little concerning I think also the way everything turned out she hasn't been elected everything that I've have seen would help the racial issue that we are having here in the US I think that that would help a lot her background um and I do like the fact that she is a lawyer her background being the main thing um who she's all entangled with uh again I I'll have to to educate more throughout the next um days but I haven't seen negative things from her so I moving with that yeah as far as a vice president you're not supposed to think about the vice president that much I mean they're just like ceremonial do a service or or do hard jobs the only time I really heard of her as a vice president is when uh President Biden sent her to Guatemala and it was about the border so she had to go to Guatemala to fix the Border that's like it doesn't do anything so I mean she kind of got a raw deal there I don't know what that's going to do and then I thought of her in the last like probably year she took more of a forward stance on um Ro versus Wade and abortion and I just have a personal feeling that I don't think like in Texas uh Ken Paxton and Greg abber our governor should be able to tell women and Families how the hell to run their lives I don't I don't think it's their business what little I know about her in the past month and I think everybody just kind of like learning a little bit more I like that she came from a humble background nobody gave her anything I like that she's from a prosecutor and the one thing I key on because she's from California and I live in Texas now is she's dealt with issues around the border right now and she's actually prosecuted cartel crimes and that's a big root of the problem okay so here's why I made everybody listen to all that because we are in the moments of defining KLA Harris and so I think it is intensely interesting to think to find out like what do people know about her what's jumping out and couple of things to me that are wild is that a uh she's getting incredibly positive marks from basically everybody the stuff about the prosecutors breaking through the humble beginnings you've heard that from lots of people through that she's from middle class you know people sort of they like that that's that came up a bunch the one thing negative that seemed to be sticking is this idea that Republicans are really trying to push which is the idea that it was unfair how she got chosen right that was the only thing that somebody raised somebody said she's scandal-free which is sort of actually not true um but were are you surprised that Republicans haven't been able to Define her more even to people who voted for Trump last time so I I yeah there's a couple things here one it's pretty stunning like listening to it is stunning I hope you do more of these Trump voters um because it's not what you would expect and it does show that she has penetrated yeah and again I think that if we step back and we look at the Dynamics of how she became the nominee the fact that it was so dramatic a sitting president you know stepping down passing the torch and therefore the intensity of the media um attraction in a month time and what she created and the campaign created all of a sudden eyeballs are on her that is so different and so much more intense than a normal nominee in in August right and I think that this is this this is kind of why people know so much is that this was historic it was dramatic it was intense and then she met the moment but for 30 days she's been leading the news and people are actually getting real things about her right her humble beginnings I mean you know this is a huge contrast with Trump that she was a prosecutor and put all the these type of people away that if you've seen her talk um she knows Donald Trump huge contrast with him so you know they're picking things up at a much deeper and and kind of organic level than we normally see because of how this all happened in a made for TV movie type of August that's a great point that actually um it's not like they're getting it from ads or watching the DNC convention like they're getting a a lot of this messaging because old fashioned way oh someone's new I'm going to go take a look right I mean this is like you know you know the the the the athletic team who you know someone get the major guy gets injured and like the the new guy comes in or woman comes in and you know becomes a star no one knew him yesterday and then 30 days later you know the the everyone knows about them I mean this is kind of how it feels right yeah but this is one of those things right so public opinion it's like cement right it's soft at first you only got a little time then it's some point it hardens and he can't change it and so I guess is is Trump prepares I just saw today you know he is getting ready to dump I don't know 60 million like they're about to start doing their post Labor Day we're getting the home stretch we're gonna we're gonna dr's gonna spend a billion dollars that's right so much money is it is it too late to Define her or do you think that public opin like do you think people like looked up took a look and were like I like her it's pretty good you think that you can take it away still I go back to the 70% who didn't want this choice between Biden and Trump and only one of those those uh choices as left as him and I'm not listen this is going to be a close election right you know we don't know who's going to turn out and we know that that the the um persuasion universe is small and probably favors Republican if they do the right job which he may he may not do right um but you know it just again I if you believe that presidential elections about the future which they usually are uh and about you know who's going to do a better job for you she just seems to be connecting on all of those and there's one other thing about your question you know is there time yeah sure I think that if we're being realistic there's time don't get too overconfident etc etc um but there's also this sense right now that voters are going to call on the attacks on her you know I at first I was going to worry because like African-American woman the the bar is probably high on everything right on her you know you when she makes mistake the bar will be higher when you know she's trying to get her messageer the bar bar bar will be higher but I all now I kind of feel like because Trump is who he is he's not a great Messengers for negative that there's also going to be a lot of called on the hits that they uh uh take on her and going back to your cement that the the the the or cement as we say in the South that is settled a lot more than you would expect and I think that that's going to be a really hard thing for Trump and his minions to dirty her up I I think that there's going to be a lot of called by the American people based on what we're hearing here right and what they know about her okay so speaking of this I actually want to play you what was to me the wildest and funniest thing from the focus group that we did with the Trump voters and I'll tell you this when I cuz everybody who listen to this podcast to an annoying degree knows that I thought it should be Josh Shapiro uh and so you know I went to the convention I got a little walls pilled but like I still would have locked up PA but whatever but when I when I found out it was walls and I started looking like I was like all right how are they gonna come at this guy my very first thing that I saw was this thing about how he put tampons in boys bathrooms right like this is what the right went to immediately and I was like oh no this whole thing is going to become about tampons and that is going to be so bad for Democrats because it's exactly the kind of stuff that swing voters hate because they think it's woke they think it's weird whatever let's listen so that it came up in this focus group and let's listen to how these Trump voters uh talked about the tampons and boys bathroom uh and walls in general one of his policies was is that he did breakfast and lunch for school children and a lot of people said that that was to socialists and things like that but I mean I am more than content with money that I pay the state of Alabama going to feed children I'm more than okay with that another thing specifically my father-in-law had a problem with was um I'm just gonna be honest I may not report all the information correct on this this is just what little research I've done he had a policy where he was wanting to supply tampons for um women's bathroom and then he was also putting them in a men's bathroom someone for me I don't have a problem with that because it's that's not necessarily trying to promote any form of uh gender Norms or anything like that it's hey you know I have a little sister hey I know we're out at home let me grab some you know what I mean or or my girlfriend at the time if she you know needed some in their bathroom was out you know I mean stuff like that that doesn't bug me anything like that it's just like wrestling talking points somebody gets worked up online about transgender stuff so they just repeat whatever they're hearing if somebody said this I don't know if there's a tampon and a boy bathroom in Minnesota and if his sister or his girlfriend needs one great give it to him but the gender thing like I mean I'm all for them like I'm I'm for everybody I have transgender people working for me that's 0.001% of the population so why don't we focus on the 99.999 problems that everybody has instead of picking a that people like to talk about on right-wing news I think the biggest reason they're putting them in there is because of the identity thing you know I identify as a 15-year-old girl so I can go in the ladies room or a girl might say I identify as a 17-year-old boy and now she's going into the boy's room I mean she's in there if she needs it grab it that's the only reason they're putting it in there now I'm from down in Texas originally and when they passed that law on Houston about unisex bathrooms for everybody man there were people left and right pissed off because I'm a father and I guarantee you if my daughter at that time would have gone into the bathroom and right behind her would have g a man I'd have killed that s guys that's the way it is okay here's going left going left and right pissed off that guy was awesome yeah that guy was so funny uh and and part of it is like uh what was crazy to me I was just watching this and it was just a bunch of trump voters and like they brought up the I was like oo the tampon thing came up there it is and it was a bunch of them sort of Defending it even the guy who was like a dude goes into a girl's bathroom I'm going to kill that guy but also so you put tampons in there big deal like yeah uh I don't know it was it struck me it struck me both as sort of a funny moment but also it was a little wild to watch Trump voters be pretty resistant to just the sort of General woke attacks and do you think that's specific to walls because walls has a little bit of not Teflon but like armor for some of that stuff by being kind of a flannel wearing every man or do you think that people like have hit their limit yeah on some of this stuff that's where I was going like right like the the bell curve like you know we kind of got to the top and it's now going down like all that stuff was you know and social media and reinforcement and Trump and d and and I I again I think that maybe that we're is we're going back down to where like okay we went through that era and there's always going to be some of it but now we're just we're not going to buy into it all of it and then we're going to like think through issues I had never even thought through um what that would have been for in a boy's bathroom for a sister or a girlfriend that was not where I thought they were going man right and so yeah I I just think that you know maybe we've hit a peak of that and then and then we're going down that that may be you know too much to think but that's kind of where I was going before you asked the question question yeah I I do Wonder a little bit if look because I still think people can always be stirred up by some of these culture War things I just think people uh you know that that's fear and anger are always going to be a motivator but I do wonder if you know there's a lot of talk at the convention about joy and I sort of I was cringing a little bit at some of the joy stuff and but at the same time like I think it's possible people might be in the mood to not be so mad like that they just might be in the mood I don't know about Joy but like they'd like to not feel like America's a terrible place for a minute theyd like to not be mad at their neighbors all the time they like to not be outraged at every weird thing that happens and I look I I want to be I want to hesitate as I always do to extrapolate too much from any single group but I will say I was very surprised by this group and it's not totally isolated we've done a number of these groups of down on Trump voters and I will as a closer sort of say almost everyone in this group was going to vote for Harris uh there's only one person and that person was gonna go a third party you know and I go back to the beginning of the the podcast with someone people were talking about our convention versus theirs that when I was watching their convention that group was all riled up and excited and coronating and whatever because of the Doom and Gloom because of picking on people because of being negative because of on America which I think people are over right yeah and we were excited and joyful and you know electric because of positivity and of the future and quite frankly because we wanted to do things right they always want to kill things they and so you know I think America is seeing that I think that America is you know vote elections are about choices and we couldn't have given you know two more Stark choices in a one- Monon period And I think that that's real I think your focus groups are um uh um showing that I think the polling I mean listen Trump was plus4 you know before Biden got out the average right now nationally is Harris plus three that's a seven-point movement yeah that's real right y that's kind of where you want to be three or four or five points ahead nationally to be able to win as a democrat in in electoral uh Battleground States but we're also seeing her very competitive in in the battle ground States and we have the excitement to drive a infrastructure on the ground with field and get out the vote um that he used to have organically right and maybe he has it now maybe he doesn't but guess what we got it the enthusiasm motivation level of Harris voters are at the same level or above Trump voters now we didn't have that before that's right and you cannot dismiss that on Election Day John anzalone thanks so much for joining us and thanks to all of you for listening to another episode of the focus group podcast we will be back next week and in the meantime be sure to subscribe to the B on YouTube and rate and review the show on Apple podcast we will catch you next week