PERFECTION! Kamala Wiped the Floor with Weak, BETA Trump | The Next Level

Intro I think their big strong boy last night took a huge L and looked like a beta cck and I think that makes them feel sick in their tummies hello everyone this is JVL here with my best friends Sarah Longwell and Tim Miller it is September 11th so somber day I hope we never forget about that it is also the morning after the Philadelphia Massacre and one of the Post-debate focus groups more dominating performances in a presid presential debate that we've had over the last 20 years I would say this is up in the first R maybe the second most yeah honestly uh I think it probably is I think the the the two other ones are the first Romney Obama debate in uh 2012 and the first Clinton Trump debate in 2016 make of that what you will since anyone do you forget any uhet any you you tell me maybe May one from two months ago oh well yeah but that I don't think Trump turned in a dominating performance there Joe Biden Joe Biden had a he EV on camera got okay okay but uh I I would say that both Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton winners of those two lopsided the Hillary well we can get H that Comm performance was nothing like Hillary's I mean that so much better it was so much better I agree that Harris was better but I I again I just dis I think Hillary had a good very sharp first debate anyway we get on to that uh I know you guys don't want to see anything that could possibly be bad from it um there's so much to talk about we're going to get to all of it we're going to do a good 35 minutes on Byron York and Tim's amazing so Tim I guess you went to the spin room as Triumph the insult comic dog and it's glorious I don't want to hear all about that but I want to I want to go to Sarah first because three of us were together briefly last night Sarah have you evolved in your thinking at all since we spoke at 11:30 last night okay so uh Tim's got great spin room content but I've got fresh hot focus group content uh so we just did a group of Swing voters from swing States uh these are people who voted for Trump voted for Biden in 2020 but we had three of them who uh we have talked to previously they've been leaning RFK over Harris uh and it was a clean sweep for Harris both in head-to-head vote choice so she had won those uh RFK leaners over with this debate performance it was a clean sweep for Harris in terms of them believing that she had absolutely won the debate uh their big the the word that they used and this is a thing that um I think is really important and and is something that she accomplished last night one of the top words that people used organically without us bringing it up was presidential she looked presidential uh that's good and then and there was a big like heris skeptic in the group like a guy who does not like her record as da knows a lot about it um even yeah even he we had him back uh in June and even and so he was an RFK leaner uh even he got there on her um and uh despite despite still raising his objections about her time uh as the da and but he was saying he was like Trump started talking about eating pets and I just did a spit take uh you know like this um I mean the number of people who were just like what was he talking about he looks crazy um you know and here's the thing much like the Biden debate where because I I just I I tweeted this this morning but I think it's important uh in terms of the reaction that we're seeing from Republicans which is they're saying the thing that people said to me the sort of Dem pollster and the activists demn activist uh who was on stage with me that night and who was very angry with me after the Biden debate because I was saying that is like a disaster for him like I was being very honest with the audience and I and at the I was like guys I'm going to level with you it's my job to do clear right analysis and I'm going to tell you that was that might be campaign ending and these guys were so mad at me and what they said on the stage that night was debates don't matter and if you look at Ben Shapiro and a bunch of the Republicans today they are trying to argue that debates don't matter which I got to say a six weeks following a debate that caused one of the two major candidates to drop out saying that debates don't matter is like a nuclear level hot take um I think they're calling that cope yeah high level copium here especially oh this was the other thing in the focus group they were like no the moderators were good like there was not this sense that and these groups these flipper groups I just want to they are some people might be like okay these are people who voted for Biden before and it's true that they are but they are also temperamentally conservatives like they are center right voters who just hate Donald Trump because he's like uniquely terrible but like would love to vote for a republican is typically this kind of group and so this is a group where after you know the last three and a half years of Biden we saw real back sliding I talk about the backsliding a lot and so for her to have I think she did the thing that we desperately needed her to do which was to make the case not just that Trump is terrible because these guys already kind of know that but to make an affirmative case for her and I think she I think she did that did they hear specifics do they hear enough policy to take because this is one of the things we we've heard in your focus groups is the well you know I don't really know what she wants to do or I don't know what her policies are did you get a sense that people either either heard enough or didn't hear enough do they do they want more on that someone said Trump putting his ego before the country uh because they had they heard her say for the first time uh about Trump killing the Border deal and I cannot stress this enough right like people tune in to see to see these people go head-to-head and lots of them don't know specific information and so people were being introduced to new information like the fact that he scuttled the immigration deal so one guy was talking about that um this that was the guy who also said literally did a spit take on the pet eating thing um it felt like the dynamic completely reversed now Trump's the old man that can't keep up it was fun to watch um also though why didn't you do any of this the last 3.5 years attack it didn't land uh somebody said you were the man in the chair how are you going to pick at her when you didn't do it right so like that uh I will say this is now I'm going to have to paraphrase because I I don't have the the direct quote one of the things that I think really helps her on the substance is that she gave enough of it that people felt like they learned new things about her Donald Trump offered no substance and so that people were also like aware of that like at least from a a voter point of view listening to what they said it wasn't like they walked away being like she ticked through all these policies and now I feel like I know where she stands on everything it was more like I feel like I learned more about her and Trump seemed like a crazy man that's encouraging to me in particular because I my one hangover I just something about my how I process these sorts of things like almost always the morning after I feel even more strongly about whatever I felt the night before right like the more time that passes when you think about it like whatever my first instinct was I'm like yeah was actually was even a bigger think more right I am exactly exactly this is just this is a human you know sistic uh kind of uh thing so but the one nagging thing I have this morning about it was I I just she had passed the presidential bar for me right so I'm encouraged to hear that that line that that multiple people use that word presidential four people used it because you know the Ling my fears of anxiety over lingering sexism RAC right like like how did how did people process that they did not like her or did not feel like she was up for it um I felt like she was extremely strong in stuff particularly in the National Security portion um on the economy portion it just it happened at the beginning and I do think she was kind of getting her sea legs like really the turning point of the debate was the kind of hamfisted troll over this crowd size like she didn't even deliver it that well it was like totally out of nowhere you know she it's an immigration answer then at the end she's like and if you want to learn about Trump you can go to his rallies and then she didn't really even land the line that well about how people are leaving early but then Trump dissembles and you can kind of see her confidence build and I felt like her answers were much more natural and flowing from there so on the economy maybe not as much because it was early but on the rest of it I just she showed such command particularly by the time you get to the National Security section at the end you know which is like you know if this is this commander-in-chief test at the line I've stolen from you Sarah about how Trump is a Putin standing I mean to me it just feels like she passed that stuff with flying colors and and like my the nagging little thing in the back of my head is was like but do old white guys in Scranton dis you know do they disagree with that do they look at her faces and decide that she looked child I don't [ __ ] know what these people think so uh one focus group only um but it does match what we saw from the other public focus groups that the other media companies did and from private dial tests I mean you know we've heard from from car I've heard from Harris campaign people dial test also media neutral media dial tests and it was overwhelming for her yeah and and you see the the Republican reaction which also tells you what they think right they also think that he got his clock cleaned and uh and they're all worried about it and he's now backing away from the idea of doing more debates we'll we'll unpack that as we go um all right so Tim let's go to the Tim’s spin room stories candy tell me about we're going straight to the candy well before we get to the spin room candy because it's related because one of the questions I kept asking people is what was Donald Trump's best moment that's what I thought was my so that was the non- insult to comic dog side that was the the thoughtful journalist you know um engage engaging engaging with a pretty subtle it's a pretty subtle did not have a single good moment oh the part where he started shouting they're eating dogs and cats they're eating the dogs with it the Ashley babbit defense um he said me we about the insurrectionist and and the police I didn't even notice this a reper sent this to me he's like you're missing the other part of the clip where he calls the police the other side the other side yeah the other side just a horrific we talked about being friends with the Taliban yeah talks about being friends with the Taliban he's deep in like the magga Cinematic Universe stuff you know he's dropping j6 and Laura I was watching Laura and she defended me on Charlottesville like and you know I'm thinking normal people cannot even Translate like a certain percentage of of the stuff that he's saying there's there's actually two elements that certain people and no one could translate like the gibberish he was giving on answers like the abortion question but then even when I knew what he was talking about because I you know on fertilization Tim yeah I know like there were many parts where I can't like normally normies had to be like who are you talking about who is Laura who is Ashley who is Laura um so anyway but I was we were joking I was joking with guys in The Green Room I was like so I just finished the the daily found of SE and um I got to the end of it and I was like [ __ ] I forgot to even bring up the the healthc care SE section so it's like he was so bad last night and and there was such a dir of positive things to talk about and there was so much to mock him about that like I didn't even get to like what was probably I mean don't you think that was the mo the catchiest thing that they will that they will tag on to about his plans I don't know what I I mean it's something that over the last like six elections has moved a lot of votes I mean Healthcare has moved a lot of votes right yeah and just for him to say that like he has what I don't have a plan I have the concept of a plan concepts of plans and and if we come up with something then he goes to that if we have the concepts of plans and it's like if we come up with something good it's like if we come up with something good you've been running for president for nine years I like did you did NOP did Tulsi not even mention Healthcare in in the prep for two weeks and it was like he hadn't even contemplated talking about healthare so so like it's was just so atrocious and so when I get to the spin room I lit literally I I mean you know we we'll set the lindsy grandp part aside for a second because that was actually my first encounter but when I start going to the guys you have the the the placards you know and for people who have seen the pictures been the spin room it's like each side has um has surrogates and they have different colored placards and it's like the Caris team's placards like their placard holders are hold them way Statue of Liberty come talk to Josh Shapiro come talk to kazir Khan please talk to Jason Crow Jason would love to talk to you and then like the Trump time has a different colored plers and they're like barely holding over their ass like don't find me don't find me Byron Donald's I don't want to talk to you and so I'm like looking around so it took me a second to find the pl I'm going around it I so Dave aie first who is um on the Trump campaign 2020 is a surrogate run citizens united which I'm sure people have heard of is a douchebag made an anti- gay joke in front of me before he knew I was gay back in the day so you know me and bossy go way back um and uh I just that was just I just walked up to him I was like hey man good to see you it's been a while he's like yeah hey good to see you I was like what did you think was the best part tonight what he's like what I what do you think was his best answer he goes well you really putting me on the SP he goes you really putting me on the spot here I like am I I was like if you did the reverse I could I could rattle off a million good things that coma did and and uh and then I I did the same exchange with Corey um who uh who immediately chuckled and and wanted to um relive our our spin room encounter from eight years ago where he assaulted me I guess we could say like physically assaulted me and I was okay I wasn't hurt but I mean you aren't supposed to body check some person I that I don't I don't know if that's like a jailable offense kind of like his stabbings but you know you you aren't supposed to you aren't supposed to body check another person um so I don't know a minor assault I guess um and to asked him the same question and he had nothing and then um Hugo L like started like kind of picking up on this and like asking other and like asking the same question and he was like we can't they couldn't find anybody to come up with anything so anyway I thought that was like the most interesting part of the spin room on the substantive part and then you know we can if you want to go straight into the insult TR the insult dog part or do you have other like a dog can I just say that I was listening to Trump when Trump kind of was doing the thing where the reporters are all and I could just hear Tim screaming I could hear being like why wouldn't you look at her he was like there's my guy I hear him back there just screaming his little heart out it was live on Fox I was I was in there like on Fox if you're watching his thing and the people get so mad at me because I was screaming loud and out like inappropriately loud why wouldn't you look at her were you scared to look at her why wouldn't you even look at her and why wouldn't you look at the vice president and and one of his comm's people is like he like you're like are you a child like are you like what's wrong like are you you're just like a guy like a guy jering at a basketball game like what are you doing like you're not even it's like like what I'm like am I whatever and but then the other reporters started get mad at me which I see why because on Fox he's like answer kind of answering a substantive question from somebody else about whether he's going to debate again and you can't hear his answer because all you can hear is me screaming over the den um asking him why why he wouldn't look at her uh which was pretty notable but he wouldn't look at her it was weird real beta cuck move I gotta say real beta cck move wouldn't and and Ed let her come over to do the handshake at his Podium instead of him going over to her I mean is he wasn't going to hand all the stuff was kind of beta that's the stuff that surprises me that he didn't have game out better because he understands TV right and he thinks about TV a lot and he was I mean he was just unprepared on the logistics of how to handle being on screen with her maybe he wanted to look tough I don't know what the thinking was but yeah he the the handshake I mean it was over the baate was over from the handshake basically she had to walk around the she walk around the podiums to get to him um so and he does like a weak limpy thing you know usually he tries to dominate handshakes like he's got a very specific thing where he grabs you and pulls you toward him but he like clearly had decided to go in there and not shake her hand and so when she made it a thing he kind of Limp wristed uh and yeah it was super limp and then the not looking and she's staring him down the whole time he has to notice this he's staring them he's he's staring she's staring him down he has to like notice it his peripheral vision and then Edo Keefe who's is's like the pool that's in there reported that during the commercial break he didn't look at her and and he W immediately walked off stage and she just sat there and like took notes then he came back on and didn't look at her the whole time just seething um so it's very beta very angry um and very sad old man realate the whole vibe of it so anyway after it was after I start uh he didn't answer my my question about why he wouldn't look at her and so then I immediately pivot it out and the same comm's person who was chastising me I noticed in the corner standing to next to Byron York um your friend Wasington examiner former colleague almost years not a not a okay okay Lo long time Washington examiner writer early on the Trump train early but was he was he's been a hack since he came out of the womb okay so he was a hack for he was a hack when he was at National Review yeah exactly so he's always that's what I'm saying he's always been a hack but so I had a kind of relationship because he hash for Bush but hack for Bush initially he's a stenographer yeah and then As Trump takes over so he knows deep in his heart this man by New York that he's a hack right because he's always been a hack and he knows Trump lost and he knows it's pathetic and I see this Tim Merta who had chastised me for asking a very fair question of his boss um during the Gaggle as I am want to do as a member of the media and uh I walked over and I made a beine for them and just leaned in and put my hand on both their shoulders was like I was like Tim Byron don't like it was like nice job finding Byron or like good job with Byron Byron will write up something real nice for you and and I give both a slap like a little slap on the back and start walking out and Byron is so mad like in the article I it does not reflect how mad he is he turns around and at a volume that is too high for the spin room he goes [ __ ] you [ __ ] you a double [ __ ] you and I looked back and kind of chuckled and gave away with his Kermit the frog Kermit the Frog voice I was like guess guess things not not all as well not all as well in magga and Maga scribe land you know uh when you don't have much to say you don't have much to do it's tough so you know my my evening went on from there I wrote about it more I'm happy to feel additional questions but uh I got to tell you I was having the time of my life I was having the time of my life nobody was having more fun in that spin room only like no one was watching only person had a better night that me last night was Doug and uh you know because even the Democrats the Democrats that were also Riding High and I talked to several Democrats I wrote about my exchange with Gavin who was who was I thought genuinely happy for her which which you on Gavin's interview with con of America which was like close to the switch you could sense maybe a little bit of what if should be me yeah exactly you can sense it you can just you can sense these things I I wasn't I didn't sense it at all he was he was thrilled he was giddy and um and so I was talking to other Democrats who are also Giddy and enjoying themselves but it's just they were missing that extra layer that I have which is the res is the bad things happening to bad people that I know you know and um they don't they don't [ __ ] Gavin doesn't know Byron York he's never had to deal with this [ __ ] he doesn't know Dave bossy he's never made a homophobic joke uh when he's sitting in a conference room you know you you don't know these [ __ ] he's never been hip checked by Cory lowski I know these bastards and so it's like it's a little extra level of pleasure to be able to walk around and and and enjoy the same joy that Gavin has but also enjoy the pain of the th you know Byron York is a journalistic jiggalo by which I mean that his entire like the last 15 years of his career has been spent trying to write things that make the wife of his owner happy this is literally true so so the watching examiner is owned by Phil ANZ Phil wife no no no no so the wife of his little owner his little owner and uh and so Nancy they don't make money they don't have actual fans readers they do not they don't have readers they don't have Revenue uh and so it's just it's just a big sinkhole for Phil anet's money and Nancy anshutz who is much more MAA than Phil is she just thinks of Byron as her sweet little poodle and her she just she loves him and she loves how conservative he is and and how good he is and how stwart and and she makes sure that it's known that Byron's her favorite and so Byron's can you imagine being a grown man in your 60s your entire job is writing fanfic for some 75-year-old rich woman so that her husband will keep cutting your checks you [ __ ] ass this sorry Sarah this is what people come to this podcast it is no nobody knows who they don't know whoor is Mega bloggers okay that's what people come here for they want to hear we can cut all that no no I don't need to cut it I just want to ask Tim he missed I I want the Lindsey Graham anecdote who unlike Byron York most of our readers and listeners have heard of okay U the lindsy thing was fun so uh immediately before I even got through the mag magnetometers what that magners I had it right um you know so so I'm I'm walk it's a very long hallway it's this cavernous Convention Center end of one side is the magnetometers behind that is the room where the filing Center was everyone's in there because Trump was about to be in there and so like the Secret Service is coming and there's a buzz and so nobody's outside except for Lindsey Graham and his um you know staffer young young lady and uh and I walked up and and the security guys and I I was about to walk up into the magnetometer and took a little left like hey there Senator and uh Lindsay knows me as as you all know um spent a lot of time with Lindsay and um what was what was the vibe of his greeting uncomfortable smile initially a very uncomfortable smile hey but I I I began affably and I was you drinking buddies oh yeah yeah we F right I said good to see you it's been a while and he's you know conscious smile looking at me he's like yeah yeah yeah friendly and I'm like this could be your moment come back come over like we used to we used to gossip about this guy we used to [ __ ] talk this guy right like it's time after that debate it's time and um and so immediately when he sees the worm is turning he gets [ __ ] pissed pissed he goes zero to 100 on me purple beat red face you should be ashamed you should be ashamed I was like I should be ashamed like you should be ashamed what you know so we go back and forth on that Trump was great Trump was the best for the economy Trump was the best for this Trump was the best for that everything was wonderful under Trump and I'm like I'm like is that true I was like then I was like how can you do this after like he was just in there talking about giving Eastern Europe to Putin I mean like they asked him you know Kam brought up give about how Putin's look eye in Poland and Trump's and Trump's just like and he's like well D were scared of him they never would have done it under Trump I'm like Lindsay I'm like you don't believe this I was like you don't believe this like come on and um and then then he goes I do believe it and it keeps going and I'm like really and he's like everything was great and and I was like everything was great I was like the the it ended with you running around scared you were running scared of your own supporters they were chasing you down you were running around the capital then you were running around the airport I was like did things really end that great and then he gets really pissed at me and and starts yelling and um and I looked over it as Aid who is just like mortified by this exchange like how is this happening and I kind of forget if it was him or me but one of us offered like a temperature like like it was getting really hot like let's turn down the temperature Olive Branch and he fist bumps me he's like all right and we fist bump and I was like okay we can just that was really bad though right and that's when he just let but just immediately let's go no no no I I didn't say I said that was really bad I mean like come on like Matt Gates Tulsa like you don't like these people that was really bad right and that's where he goes yeah he should fire the whole team it was terrible he was unprepared it was a disaster was like that's what I thought good to see a cater turned right around started typing out the Tweet about what he just told me before I even made it through the magnetometer like good and then and then as I was walking away I shouted back always welcome to do this again on the podcast welcome anytime happy to do it you have my number this show is sponsored by Lumen the world's first Lumen handheld metabolic coach Lumen is a device that measures your metabolism through your breath and on the app it lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives you a tailored guidance to improve your nutrition workouts sleep and even Stress Management here's how it works all you have to do is breathe into your Lumen first thing in the morning and you'll know what's going on with your metabolism whether you're burning mostly fats or carbs then Lumen gives you a personalized nutrition plan for that day based on your measurements you can also breathe into it before and after workouts and meals so you will know exactly what's going on in your body in real time and Lumen will give you tips to keep you on top of your health game in case you're not aware because I wasn't when I was first sent the device metabolism is your body's engine it's at the center of everything your body does I might have learned this if I had gone to medical school um the optimal anabolic Health translates into a bunch of benefits including easier weight management improved energy levels better Fitness results and better sleep uh Lumin is really helped me keep my energy levels up during the day especially during this anxiety producing election cycle I was breathing into my Lumen last night I like to breathe into it when I go for walks and Hikes I go hiking up uh hiking up in the hills behind my house with the Bears and I like to hit the Lumen before and after and see where I am if you want to take the next step in improving your health go to lumen.me the next level and get 15% off your Lumen that's l m en .me slthe next level for 15% off your purchase thank you Lumen for sponsoring this episode um I've talked too much can I take over host for a second sure I I I What more can Kamala do? feel like I I already knew what Sarah thought I heard her last night on the live stream and also me and Sarah kind of have a cosmic connection after 20 years together so I sort of sensed what her views were I I I mean JVL sometimes you're you're contrar you're a weird bird sometimes you have a little different views I don't know I mean like were last night like how much better than it's your expectations was it like any any did are you zagging from any of the uh you know coconut uh you know C celebrations today here's the the only way in which I'm zagging is that I am a little bit nervous about what kind of country we live in um because here's the thing the the other thing that strikes me is she's positioned herself in the absolute dead center of American politics you know she's like I'm a gun owner I love small businesses that was one weird thing I said is she a gun owner you know we're we you there's this story about how in 2019 she bought a gun uh because I also was like very smart of them to have her purchase a gun two weeks ago so that she could say that line okay I got to say I there was the one line was like even even Tim I was like we might take some guns I don't it happened at the very end of the debate and I was like we've already dominated right do we have to give in these [ __ ] anyway I don't know I was I was Ching our Progressive listeners on that one answer I was like all right we don't you don't need to give everything to the mods I mean she was giving everything she was just going full you know Nikki Haley voter no but it was it was full Nikki Haley right you know tax cuts for for people we're going to increase Supply in the housing market we're going to uh we're going to be incredibly tough and face down China and Russia we're going to defend uh Eastern Europe I mean it was I mean it was B it was Biden centrism but with even less Progressive flavoring in it and there was some free money handout stuff at one point she was like we're going to give 5,000 to here and 10,000 to here tax stuff but that's again that's all that's just populism like that's now what conservatism is and uh it was fun to hear Trump try to explain tariffs too did you know that other countries play pay all of the tariffs that was so it's such an interesting economic Point as like a tax that America can levy on foreign governments is the craziest [ __ ] thing I've ever anyway it's the Mexico will pay for the wall for 2024 but here's here's what worries me uh I just like what else can she do for you people you know and uh like at some point and and I said this you know we are not in a recession the economy is very good uh we got more inflation numbers in the last day or so inflation is you know way down we're going to get within a week from today a week from today we're going to get a rate cut from the FED they're going to go down either 25 or 50 basis points gas is cheap grocery prices are down uh we just had the most air travel in the month of August that America has ever had ever more people went flying in August than have ever gone flying in American history in a single month if with all of that and a candidate who is a good candidate who is not everyone was like oh you know we don't like Trump but Biden is so old and like okay the Democrats like okay we'll we'll get rid of the old guy for you and here's a young candidate who's good and she won't be she won't be liberal she won't be Progressive she's going to be super Centrist moderate she's going to be much closer to the political Center than than Trump is frankly on every single issue and uh and if you do all that and it's still like yay maybe we can win by 5,000 votes in Pennsylvania I mean I'll take it I'd rather win Pennsylvania than lose it but I don't know man I don't know because you know it feels like like why couldn't it be let's Why isn’t this a blowout? just play fan fiction here it's not going to happen just Among Us Pals we're just Pals right now why shouldn't this be Josh Shapiro versus Doug mastriana it should be it kind of is it kind of is like what is the meaningful difference and Josh and Doug and Trump there's some differences but yeah please tell me yeah but there's a couple things one you can never forget how much Trump's celebrity insulates him from normal political rules because so much of it is a show and people interpret it as such uh and I think part of why last night was so interesting is he's getting worse at the show way worse bad he sounds old he can't he looks old he can't and like the split screen is much worse for him people were talking about this in the focus group right she looks young and energetic he looked grumpy and his his flesh tone which is never great uh what artificial his flesh tone is decided by his makeup artist yeah but he so last night I gotta say even not say that word anymore what flesh tone Oh that's I'm saying it after this fine just uh was he moist no he was a little actually uh well this he was a spittle inflected um but but here's the when I was watching him he has those like weird tanning circles around his eyes that you know have like the slight white eyes but it looked like he was going to sleep like in the very beginning even when she was kind of not at her most forceful right she was a little nervous uh he was like because they tell him like don't get too crazy he like pulls way back and just looks he looked sleepy he looked old man sleepy sick yeah and then he started talking right and there was sort of a little bit of like is this how he sounds right now like does he have a cold too um in that way that I was like uh I just I thought that the contrast that that they wanted to jump out really did jump out good on let me get back to where you were though yeah help you get back to no no no that's that was good we should have talked about his flesh U it was important it was important oh the celebrity I was saying like why why why so why can't he be Doug Master on like why couldn't we get to a point where where where she wins by 12 I me Pennsylvania just just Happ where a guy lost by 12 in Pennsylvania or what L I think I do not think it's crazy I do not think it's crazy to believe that the polls are missing a lopsided level of enthusiasm like it is very possible that there is going to be uh much more enthusiasm for her and much less for him and the polls aren't picking it up in the way that they're doing things like it's possible I'm not saying it is happening but it's possible um I still think his celebrity has always just done things here's the other thing I don't think that I was you know I did this group I kind of made people take their medicine I did a focus group episode with Benji sarin I think it's very good and people should go listen to it it's tough the number of texts I received from people that are like had to quit the focus group today yeah I I I honestly seven seven people contacted me to say they had to quit the podcast I believe you not forever just episode I Growing men/women divide think that even for people like us who uh and especially Tim uh are very sophisticated political observers not just of the cable news sphere but like also the tck this is where I mean Tim is like also social media also the things that like might go unnoticed by your average reporter um that are happening below the surface the sort of manosphere and all of its tendrils like when people are looking at the massive polarization between men and women uh I don't think people have baked in yet how much is going on and it's like from Ben Shapiro to Matt Walsh to like tradlife stuff to uh to all the way to like the Andrew Tates and the Jordan Petersons like there is an ecosystem an enormous one that is hitting youngish men but like maybe 18 to 40 that have created maybe 50 maybe 50 right that have created uh and and I think we're going to start I think we're seeing just the tip of the iceberg in gender polarization and that two cycles from now like you're almost going to have people sorted like gender will become unlike like right now where it's sort of like education or it could be geography gender is going to become and I don't know how we're going to get people to marry each other like I don't know how we're going to maintain the species uh and keep birthing Americans uh as as as we become just more and more gender po I can feel that Donald Trump is going to be elected a free IVF for everybody don't actually he knows fertilization very good on fer but what do you guys think about this Theory because I do think when you're like why why doesn't it translate into more I think that there are and I think that last night if you don't hate women you look at her and think my God that was presidential she looked excellent she sounded excellent I think if you kind of hate women a little bit uh you get a Frank luns type take where it's like all those faces Megan Kelly too uh who I've not I'm not sure I've see a woman on Twitter nastier to women more self-loathing after Trump said she was bleeding from her eyes or wherever I don't know that I've seen somebody more willing to be disgusting to other women than Megan Kelly is um and like if you sort of hate women then you watch kamla Harris doing what I think is a very normal human reaction to What Donald Trump was blathering uh but you decide like no men are going to hate this because they hate a woman who is looking skeptically at a man yeah but I think their big strong boy last night took a huge L and looked like a beta cck and I think that makes them feel sick in their tummies yeah uh so I just think to wrap that up I yes I I do that's part of the answer doesn't feel like the full answer but I do think it's part of the answer there's a category particularly of men that just like couldn't be bothered to vot forget like maybe they voted for Shapiro or maybe they couldn't even be [ __ ] bothered like to care about this midterm election with this weirdo Doug mastriano like who seems like a Christian like Co like Confederate co-playing freak and and like for whom Trump has this appeal to that I I I do think that there is a category of people is that 10% of the electorate though like if I mean you know what I mean like that's the that's just the thing that's like hm it's a little bit of a it's a little bit of a conundrum that that Josh could could Shapiro could just you know win by T in the teens sneaking and Comm sneaking out a 1% another I guess the other side of that is Josh Shapiro kind of codes even though he's Jewish and attorney still codes more Center than a black woman from the Bay Area so there's a little bit of that too of course I think there's a little bit of that I but I also just think like Doug mastriano and this is where I go to the celebrity thing is like people have a strong opinion about Trump being their weapon to own the libs right in a way that I don't think none of these other guys kind of break they don't look at Blake Masters and be like you will be the cudel that I will use to exact revenge on my very annoying colleague who has you know their pronouns in their signature on their email yeah where Donald Trump does yeah that's true all right but you didn't answer my question which is what are we supposed to make of this country if it really does wind up like can we just not get I mean we're not there why do we have to I just want to be prepared we don't have a long time to talk about you know if you expect disappointment you can never be disappointed Sarah yeah our second sponsor today is Factor summer sadly is Factor on its last days but that doesn't mean it's not still warm and sunny outside so fuel up with factors no prep No Mess meals you can meet your Wellness goals thanks to the menu of Chef crafted meals with options like calorie smart Protein Plus and keto factors fresh never frozen meals are dietitian approved and ready to eat in Just 2 minutes so no matter how busy you are you'll always have time to enjoy nutritious great tasting meals and there are more than 60 add-ons to help you stay fueled up and feeling good all day long you can choose from six menu preferences to help you manage calories maximize protein intake avoid meat or simply eat well balanced you can also discover a wide variety of easy options for the entire day like bre breakfast midday bites and more treat yourself to restaurant quality meals that feature premium ingredients like filet Manon shrimp and black and salmon uh factor is super duper easy I just keep a bunch of them in the fridge and when I break from writing the excellent newsletters that I write so that Sarah cannot read them I I I just run up I throw them in the microwave for two minutes and then I'm done I bring it back to my desk I Chow Down uh it's good food it's easy it helps keep me fueled head to factor meals.com theen l50 and use code the next level 50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month that's code the next level 50 at Factor meals.com slthe Next Level 50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month while your subscription is active hey you know what else uh came up in the group that I think is really effective KLA Harris uh also went out of Where are the neocons? her way to say that she'd heard the endorsement of uh a lot of Republicans over 200 Republicans you know that that group that gave her that talking point kudos to you I know some of you are listening that that was that was a press release that paid Mega dividends yeah uh it did and it forced Trump into another weird part of his rant where he talks about how he fired everyone and nobody was any good and it was I think he really was um I think he had so many bad moments that like we haven't even begun to be able to tally them but one of them was him having to uh sort of jibber jabber his way through why as vice president and most of the generals who worken for him don't support him and him saying that they're all terrible uh which is just him doing sort of the grievance field stuff which she then very effectively pivoted when he would do that she would say see he doesn't care about you he's not talking about you I will care about you I thought the little bit like your dreams your aspirations was like a tad much and they could have been a little more straightforward with it but said it a few too many times uh but but I thought it was deeply effective to draw that contrast um I don't know I that I just I wanted to throw that out there know I agree and I don't know I mean one I I think we should talk about this next whether it's going to even be another debate U but if there is I I mean just we are couldn't be giving notes more on the margins here yeah this typee of Slaughter that was but um I would have like that was his most prepared response actually on on all the firings right like like it was the one time where he felt like he had talking points I mean it was again it was like absurd right like that that he to um to you know defend himself and I thought that her initial attack was very strong listing out the four-star general that worked for you what he said etc etc um that was like the one exchange felt like a traditional debate was like she had a prepared attack he had a prepared response I do I do wish like her counter response was like did you fire mik Pence actually we can we can we just drill down on one of those was Mike was Mike Pence fired or did something else happen can we get a can I get a ruling on that your vice president that's not that's not supporting you this time uh because it did you know I would like to put a [ __ ] in that and that talking point but anyway I'll send it through yeah uh here's the thing about I I just you know speaking of Republicans who are twisting themselves into pretzels like your point with Lindsey Graham Donald Trump refused to say he would defend Ukraine refused to say he would defend Ukraine and as she pointed out he has talked about abandoning Europe MH uh and I just you know where are the where are these neocons like where is Mike Pompeo where are where is everybody what is What's Happening Here can I feel this I know the answer pleas they're at Ai and they're hoping that the Democrats take care of the bastard for them that's where they are they're sitting around at AEI hoping that they don't have to get their hands dirty they don't have to say that they endorse K Harris or that Harris's World Views are closer to theirs than Trump's because that would be icky because she has a a d next to her name and people with D's next to their name are bad they're radicals and statists in California aggressives and uh and so they and they just hope that Democrats will just make this problem go away for them and then after that they hope that the the real Republican party will just come back to them and ask ask them to come back and guide them again and this is delusional on both ways because I'm sorry if you believe in sort of like the old Nikki Haley stuff the only place for your views these days is the Democratic party and I have trouble seeing a world in which that changes in the foreseeable future yeah I was listening to Sarah's podcast with David French and and the other person and on 2x speed um uh just just to listen to it and there was a point that D that David made that I just I just wanted was thinking about last night during the debate that I'd like to drill down on JVL knows well the old three-legged stool he was always only a two legs man um me and Sarah were also only two legs different legs different legs um but uh was the social conserv four good legs social conservatism the fiscal and the National Security I just think about those things and it's like he is literally on stage saying he's gonna give Eastern Europe to Putin you can't you can't he could not be further from the foreign policy like of the Reagan stool the fiscal conversation he does talk about tax cuts but clearly the thing he's most passionate about are the massive tariffs and it's it is like the core part of his agenda and and that's what was spent the most time on during the economic portion of the debate then on the social side of the debate he cannot offer a compelling defense of the of the overturn of roie Wade and he's kind of for it he's kind of against it he's all over the place and then I just would throw on there that during that exchange um I thought was so strong from K where she was like we're not going to let the government we're especially not going to let Donald Trump tell us what to do with our bodies and the subtext of that is all of Donald Trump sexual assaults obviously so like you see on the social I guess this leg that is still the sturdiest I guess would be the social conservative leg but Donald Trump's not a social conservative he cannot speak to it with any any type of eloquence and and in his personal life it is you know like he is an affront to everything that the Christian conservative base that represented that you know sort of leg of the stool in the 80s so even if it was phony you can argue some was funy they're all funny but like on its face those are the three legs and he gives you nothing no gives nothing the social conservative leg morphed at some point maybe hating brown people into just ha well just hating the others right hating people are the fake Americans and hating the fake Americans is social conservatism now there is nothing else with row overturned there's literally no other policy item it's just do you hate the bad people and are you not teaching the gay Penguin book in schools well that's where that's he delivers there's also like there's the legs of the stool and then there's like the part where your butt sits you know like a circle on top which would have been things like character self-determination liking America right like the less just and those are gone too shining City on the hill yeah this mother eer is sitting on the floor they are sitting on the floor the whole party sits on the floor you know I I wondered last night we we're talking about fact checking and how you know the very very naughty fact checkers ABC one of the things Trump said was that he predicts that if KLA Harris wins within two years Israel won't exist do you think we could ask uh I don't know BB Netanyahu if he thinks that Israel will still exist as a nation state should KLA Harris win I would be curious what Israelis think about that do they do they think that they will cease to exist in two years I'll give Donald Trump credit on this the only time he talked about the future at all during the de bait was when he would bring up the dystopia in future of Harris presidency because he had nothing on his own on the own side like what I'm going to do what we're going to do to make things great how we're g to change things like Z like zero um so yeah that's it I mean it wasn't just Israel right it was like everything World War I they ruin the country yeah you won't have a country um we got we got waylight Will there be another debate? do what do you guys because this is the one that I just genuinely don't know and it's it's I'm just consumed by thinking about it all morning are they going is he going to do it again I thought it was so ballsy of the Harris team to go out last night immediately and just continue the alpha move because you could see I could imagine a world being in those rooms where it's like David Pluff saying we should do it again and you know whoever is over here saying I don't think well are we sure what what shouldn't we see the polls and then kamla's coming off stage and like we shouldn't bug her with this like we'll decide in the morning no [ __ ] it they were just like [ __ ] it no we dominated him we'll dominate you again where the alphas let's roll and then it's him out there looking weak being like I don't know maybe if the moderators are maybe Sean Hannity moderates I'll do it um but it's like could could he really whimper out of it it would be so weak yeah they should just keep dogging him for a debate it would be so weak what do you think what's he what will he do well I mean let's just if you if you were Cory and you were running his campaign what would you do I I think that I think that he's in the Biden shoes now and I think you have to do it like you know I mean I'd be worried about it I would not I think maybe he's not up for it but like who knows like maybe he'll be scared into you know pulling it together and we can give him some sniffers and so whatever some riddlin maybe she'll be maybe the the bar is so high for her can't now duplicated I guess I guess or I guess probably what I what I'm saying if I'm over there is the inverse of what I just said was commas like let's see what let's see what the blls look like in a week yeah yeah if they feel like the bottom doesn't fall out and they feel like they're still kind of in it like they probably just grind it out with before risking another debate but if they get behind in a real way and like it's a Hail Mary opportunity to like get the conversation back to them I guess I could see them doing it if they are if Harris is under 50 or under 51 even and he's sitting at 46 47 I think that there's no real reason to do a debate like I mean and frankly but there's also no reason not to you know at that point if this debate doesn't really move the needle all that much then you could do it or not do it because he is just drawing to you know he's got a low percentage play he's got a 30 to 40% chance and that's what it's going to be no matter what right here's why I don't think they'll do it if you're Chris loav Susie WS or even Cory lowski what you saw last night right is look maybe I'm sure that Trump didn't prep that much or that tulsy gabard prepped him badly or whatever but like that is a guy with no self-control right that like she laid traps left and right he walked into them and there's nothing they can do to help him on those I was watching uh JD Vance ALS Al in the spin room he sat down with Caitlyn Collins and he was like doubling down on the dog eating stuff the pet eating stuff people have called him with secondhand accounts sure what is he supposed to do it went on for like two minutes triing down CS but he at least he at least is coherent he is on the C Point sure I mean it's absurd and it's a lie it's shameful and it's racist but his point he's the point that he's trying to make he gets across which Trump doesn't Trump's just like they're eating dogs and like just word vomit right but if you're them and you just went through that like stomach churning like and you're like oh my like JD Vance he's got to wake up today and be like I just spent all night defending cat and dog eating like God this isn't he did it J doing it did you see Eric Ericson I gotta tell you man the conservative influencers especially the ones who have begotten more prot Trump since 2020 those are the worst ones Eric ericon Patrick gini like those types are the absolute worst cuz they are deeply disturbed by what they're seeing right and so they constantly look for somebody to blame grick Ericson is like all caps just like Trump on Truth social you mother effers I hope you feel good about uh this dog and cat thing now he's repeating your stupid talking points on TV I'm like again okay so apparently Trump has no agency oh did your big Bad Bet a baby not does he get baited by this weird stuff that JD but also the vice president's the one doing this and Ted Cruz like it's not like he's just yelling at some influencers he's yelling at the Republican Party take it up with the voters right if you don't like this if you don't you don't like having a Presidential nominee who has to get fact checked at a debate then don't nominate a guy who lies pathologically yeah it's very simp find some voters that are looking for serious candidates uh it's you're going to be looking for a while I I I I'm going to well just just for for shits I'm going to come down on the other side I think that he does it oh really and it it might be I always say that I have a bad gayar because my gayar is influenced by by wishcasting a little bit you know if I'm hoping if I'm hopeful sometimes it messes up my radar sure um and and and this might be happening here where I'm just so hopeful they do another debate because I deserve it and you know I want to go again and just watch and just watch them suffer so caveat but what I keep coming back to is it would be so wimpy like can he really can he really look himself in the mirror and say like I can't beat her I can't do this I mean that would be astonishing why would he think that he couldn't beat her look he came back from Bad debates against Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden right this why I think he he does it a he is a guy who never turns down a chance to be on TV and B his his recent past has shown like ah he can tell himself I'm always bad in the first debate I'm always bad in the first debate I get him in the end yeah he's gonna say he won he needs his binky now he needs his Laura or his Shan Hannity or somebody like that to to to you know give him a soothing debate she's not going to agree to a Fox News debate should just run it back with ABC go back with he said he said today he wouldn't do fox with with be and mallum yeah know he was like oh I would do it with Shawn and Laura yeah that's right go back to CNN Judging the moderators we go back to Dan and Dana and Jake what's the argument against it you already won one because they were disgraceful they weren't disgraceful their fault ital decision but they were disgraceful they weren't disgraceful I disagree uh but I do think that the ABC moderators were terrific and I think this like crying foul from the right about the moderators is obviously also like deeply pathetic like oh my God our guy lost I got to blame the refs but like they fact checked him three times one when he was like if you count them saying that he did actually lose the election uh okay so hold on well then find me the third one so one is that they kill babies after they're born kill babies nobody's eating dogs and cats there's no evidence of that violent crime is down a violent crime is down that was the one where I was kind of like that I felt like they're they're going a little overboard KLA can do that yeah if she wants to correct it I felt like that one was a little a little much I mean but again we're again we're great now I thought they did a great look I I want to just say very clearly here at the level of a presidential debate the moderators aren't making these decisions these These are corporate level decisions involving everybody at a company so when I complain about Jake and danab Bash I'm complaining about CNN as an institution I also want a side with Sarah on that I I thought I thought both times the debate the the debates are about the candidates I hate the [ __ ] debate whining I hate it on the right I hate it on the left that's just me if they do something really bad you should criticize them something specifically bad but um I thought I thought it's been I think both debates ended up exactly as they should all right by the way last thing before we lose before I leave you I I do think we just have to talk about this um it turns out and I I know you're gonna be surprised about this as I was that Gish Galloping Gish Galloping Gish Galloping is not scalloping it's not it's not actually like a magic potion where if one one person is is has decided to use the Gish then then the other person is incapacitated and unable to combat it as it turns out it's a debate strategy that can be combed quite easily actually if you have a competent person on the other side I'm gonna cop to having to look that up after you tweeted it which is Gish Galloping which is I assumed how it was pronounced uh is when you throw out a bunch of insane things like it's it's a flood the Zone with [ __ ] actually where you say so many insane things that it is impossible for to be rebutted you know in real time effectively uh except she did this and this is where I'll say one last thing in closing about how deeply impressed I am with her and it is this I really feel for people in big moments like the stress of the like imagine being her you know and and this is where I think this is this is where you test metal for things like being president of the United States because it is an enormous amount of pressure enormous amount of pressure to perform and do a really complicated set of things uh which she achieved just in a spectacular fashion she did more than I thought it really could be done in a debate setting and one of the things that she did was really impressive was to be able to because this is where you have to be unbelievable under pressure is to be able to say and this is I struggle sometimes with this where it's like uh you say I I'm going to say a couple of things right now right and you say your first thing then you got to remember what your second thing was and she kept doing that where she's like I'm going to address the first thing you said and explain why that's wrong and now I'm going to go back and answer this question substantively whatever doing that pivot in a high press situation is deeply difficult and she was masterful masterful she did a very very good job very good job how about it and then Taylor Swift endorsed her like five minutes later oh yeah Taylor Taylor Swift We're All swifties now it's uh it's something else all right guys good show long show we'll be back next week when the polls will be totally unchanged because we live in a terrible country full of terrible people bye bye bye love you