Tommy McGuire | Making music, the success of Smile & Gigs in Scotland | The DW Podcast Episode 52

imagine a world with no cold calling a world where companies don't sell your data to other companies who want to pester you at g4 claims we don't cold call and we don't buy a single lead from data companies oh and if you're due any compensation from your car accident you pay nothing to us at all for full accident management support including motor replacement repairs and personal injury compensation claims just search g4 claims today for help the way you want it [Music] hi and welcome to this week's episode of the dw podcast uh for those that have been listening in recent weeks you will know that i have been doing a series of great scots so we've had sanjiv kohli who's better known as naveed and style game stewart braithwaite from the band moguai julian mcleod who's a magnificent chef and owns julie's copper team out in the glasgow south side and i thought it would only be right that i got someone on from my local town in monroe who i think is not only a great friend of mine but a great musician and i with classes i grace great scots so tommy mcguire thanks for coming on thank you very much derek a great scott i never realized that was going to be one of those classes that in your podcast i was funny that's mud ah listen you know people who do these things and it's so easy to beg people up for all around the country but i think that we are often you know what we're often quite hard on ourselves we've got some amazing people as you know for mother rule and lanarkshire over the years be it you know sports people musicians specifically musicians actually know we're coming for an area where we've been blessed for music uh definitely one definitely there's a lot a lot of people for the local area though it's good it's brilliant to see and i i just thought it would be nice to chuck you in there and make sure that we're pushing the ml1 as well class thank you very much thank you very much for having us on what's been happening with yourself hey not what just can i give an off the back of releasing a single just the last day october 30th i've just been getting a video done for that as much as i can with all the kind of things in place you know i mean all the restrictions and whatnot but that's been good for getting to where we need to be and hopefully they'll do it very soon for the song so happy days i'm going to beg you up here and i would say that you know people see people in the scottish music scene uh rising to the top and and they don't usually see the the hard work like then but i think you know you are one of the hardest [ __ ] musicians i know you spend your life essentially traveling around the country playing gigs playing in pubs at every opportunity you've got your guitar and your microphone in front of you so it must be about james time for you just now you know like great everyone's shutting down it was it was it was a good the last few years have been brilliant in terms of getting gigs and meeting people within the industry and doing just getting different opportunities and stuff like that so it was good and obviously getting myself set up and then obviously the lockdown happened which that was march with it so i think i was getting right up to the day before it obviously no entirely sure what was happening and then it was like all of a sudden you're getting told august and then you get into august and you're getting nowhere here you know what i mean we don't really know what's going to happen next week gigs and stuff like that but it's i missed doing it man see just like i was doing live streams and whatnot foreign you know you're not getting the same feeling as much as it's entertaining and stuff like that and watching all the people doing live streams about now for the musician you're not getting the same feeling whatsoever you know i mean it's just it's by all means you're just sitting in your living room putting your guitar in front of you in front of your ipad in front of your computer or whatever it is so if you're going to get back out gigging again man i think it's the same for folks that are watching it at home as well like you really crave well i certainly don't really care about live music it's great to see people you know questions and stuff but it's just not the same as being in a room with your mates and your family or your friends is it exactly i know it's the atmosphere you miss into it it's just getting a laugh and getting it and enjoying yourself that's that's pretty much the main part i'm sure of this mission so hopefully that comes back come back with that i know i know have you done have you done any of these kind of actual things that have been happening i know you mentioned your live streams at the start off yeah i took part in the sofa phone sing-along early on in lockdown that was for supporting the avenger live venues and stuff like that which is obviously drawing of course and but on top of that i was just i was doing it on my facebook page as much as i could i was i i said to myself like this time i'm going to do one every night until this long turns over and i thought i'm just going to go after i think it was about a week and a half and i thought yeah this might actually go on probably well and i've committed to this so i was like then went to one a week and then it was and then i've just got the stage where i was running you know i mean it's fair enough if you're playing a different pub every friday night but if you're going on your live set i've only got so much you know i mean three hours on a pub you know i've been still sitting there playing the same tunes we can be here so it's it's that worried but um i the livestream and stuff i will keep up i will keep trying to learn and expand and single like absolutely blew up but i mean you're feeling the corner for me and and mother all just down the road and what was it like what was your real experiences they played music because i don't know if i'm i'm being unfair here but i sometimes think you know as a young kid it's becoming a bit killer now but i think maybe when we were growing up it was almost like everything plays football or you know goes and hangs a bit in the parks like there's not many people actually picking up guitars and and putting themselves out there singing because they often get scrutinized i don't know that's it it's the the fear of getting a mickey ticket early on and i remember when i got i got the mickey took as much as people will support you always get your ideals and all this stuff but just fair play you know everybody gets it but i think that maybe people people can like i've heard some folks singing their class you know i mean i'm like you could really like you could turn up the open mic come with me and bring a guitar i'll play a guitar body in their future no can you do that yeah i don't know you know exactly like and and even just for karaoke or something like that people are hesitant to go like going catching you um but no i think the early days i started the band i was in isotherms it was early on when i was about 16 17 right up there i was about 18 19. um and i was in bands different bands after that doing pubs and elsewhere but i remember early on the banter these are putting gigs on up in the motherboard and what sweet was that was it the david cooper street or something that's right yeah there was a few there was a few and then real time the motherboard opportunities coming up but that was the opportunities you know i mean obviously now that diminished again but um i think locally can't have your band scene or something like that it wouldn't hurt you know what i mean for for the young kids coming up and stuff like that he'll probably have a love for music and stuff like that and i teach music as well so i see a lot of the kind of prospects young prostitutes are dying to get and get gigging and playing bands and stuff like that and um as much as those recording studios are rehearsal studios and stuff like that logo then it's the gigs you know what i mean it's having a lot of them on maybe nobody make it into glasgow especially i remember nobody driving stuff actually tried to get a gig before i could drive because it never happened it was one of the six months or something like you know what i mean so it'd be good to maybe try and build that up for you but again so you see it people you know teaching youngsters guitar and singing and stuff as well and i think at first you know there is that nervousness and hesitation isn't there but i think for people like yourself who's you know just brought out their singles you know and right into the chats when you see people that are just on your doorstep doing these things that it inspires others and gives them a platform to think tommy can do it you know you just felt the way that they see themselves and you i i i remember having that feeling when i was younger you know i mean i remember being in my mate's house in the atlanteans and and they went to giggling that's cool as in i want to do that one day and then i remember finding out paul and athena who's with paisley as well being like what because he's got a fear to tell your name i thought it was like a new york italian guy thing or something my mom said nice to paisley i was like no chance so when you see somebody local it's not it's no it's not impossible you know i mean it isn't really impossible without hard work in the right dedication people who i want to make their crazy music can certainly do it i've seen that now by the way but we'll see how the live the live gigs go exactly well that's it coming back i mean you you play live gigs every single weekend you know like non-stop but i think that when live gigs do come back i spoke to stuart from mogwai but that's it's almost like there's going to be such an influx at once people that haven't played gigs i hope that people i mean it's going to be hard to afford everything but i hope that people don't think i kind of got everything or you know i hope that bands don't think i'll put off this month because there's too much happening you know when it comes to that but hopefully at the same time people are dying to go and have maybe nobody spending money and stuff i have some put away for as long as i make a petition start putting money away so when gigs come back you can all come let's talk about the single then because as i said earlier it absolutely blew up like tell us about it so i recorded that at a 45a side recordings in glasgow with the producers of paul mcnally so i wrote the song once in advance i was just kind of playing out around the house you know the rest of it and it's a different tuning so i i just kept one of my guitars in the distance i was always playing it and straight off the bat and i just thought once i'd finished that i kind of wrote it all up made a demo on garageband and then took it into the studio and it was a it was a two-day job it was it was getting the majority done in one day um the hardest part obviously they know the restrictions and all this i couldn't get like a piano player and someone who's like absolutely boss at the piano or i have a bassist so i just i just tried all the instruments myself so i've done bass piano in guitar um just have you been had to get out in some way i've not said that yet released it got out on itunes and spotify and all the rest of it and then i just filed some posts on facebook and it right at the start i i went on to check the itunes chat just off the back because i just wanted to see not even just curiosity i'll go and check it and it was 120 and right at the start i thought i'm going to see if i can put a post up try and promote it as best i can and see if i can get the top 100 and then i checked again and it was at like 40. i'm like and then it goes like as high as 14 and the full time i'm just sitting on my journal what is happening i couldn't believe it and then the following week uh everyone's streaming on spotify again massive thanks to them if you were now able to buy it on itunes for streaming because it obviously all helps towards it and ended up number seven in the official scottish charts that's crazy that's crazy but i didn't expect that i thought i don't know i just thought like i didn't get i've brought a single in 2017 and you get the option to release it to the chats like when you're publishing the music when you're putting on a spot if i know that it's like a wee extra do you want to add this for entry for the chats and you go i couldn't then like see what happens the first one get absolutely nowhere near 2017 so didn't they have the expectations that's completely surpassed them yeah if there was any but i just wanted them to put a tuna to try and give you that optimism about things obviously the songs about pretty much like if you don't watch your great situations you know i mean just like being optimistic and smiling through tough times and obviously i i have the nail on the head by the way everyone's feeling at the minute i think everybody's just gone up with something that's going on so as it's always good can i remember to smile when everyone's gonna get you down and all that stuff but yeah so videos next stop and then you mentioned that you were you know you had to get out of the house and it was in different tuning and you were playing it to yourself and before you done that demo did you have ever think this is something special here because it is an absolute cracker you know i'm very i i'm self-critical mate at like probably the first time i wrote it and firstly i played it i went as a builder the more i play it like i i annoy myself with that because i'll write what i think would be a pretty good song and then i'll keep playing over and over again you're just going nah like you know i mean i talked myself out almost but for this one i just kind of stuck through it and i just thought well i need to i need to do something i want to get a song record i've got recorded sorry i've got this song here i'm just going to go and get it done you know i mean it was just like in a almost an impulse decision almost the the videographer graham governor i'm doing the video with the follow single he he messaged me in like september or something just saying i'm getting a new camera if you want to do anything let's let's try it and i thought that's an opportunity that's come up and i've not got a song to do it with you know i mean i've never got a song that you're going to make a video i thought i need to get back together but like with everything slowing down it was very easy to take the foot off the gas with it you know what i mean because you kind of get it you're not getting the house i couldn't have played that song in front of an audience you know what i mean like i i didn't have a seal of approval with it so that to find the confidence to go and do it because i can have a big leap but never message me you've never played that live before i think maybe once maybe i might be i think maybe once but we don't i would have been in like a pub on a sunday but nobody's like nobody's really listening anyway you know i mean it's just ambient music i thought i'll throw this and see if it fits in there whatever you know what i mean so i wonder if that did you because i wonder if you'd played it live a few times you might have thought i'm not sure about that so you might have questions i don't know i don't know where this is going i don't know this isn't really working and stuff like that you're right that that that is exactly that i think it's a very natural way to start talking yourself with your own songs it's because because thank you how many times you've listened to it in comparison to someone listen the first time you know what i mean i remember when it came when the song came out i actually sat in the morning i'm going to try and listen to it as if it's the very first time i've listened to i don't care and this is you kind of you know exactly what's coming up and all the rest of it you're preparing yourself for a high note you know it doesn't look like that you lose the element of surprise so i think you do talk yourself out yeah and maybe that was a benefit no um getting to play it in front of an audience maybe stop doing it people just stop being giggs and just stop living in a studio you know what i mean that's the next step it's amazing like as you see these artists put things out and they shoot up to number seven in the scottish charts for example and they almost take it for granted but the thing for me that was it was amazing to see was you know you were documenting your journey for the day that this came out and the following days and people here not going for number to number 40 and just seeing your face you know on social media lighting up being absolutely lighter as it was coming in was was really special i know it's brilliant your face has been tripped me for the past six months nobody will play music so it was just it was genuine it was just it was still like i can't believe this has happened to me um so the support was the support was amazing man like i put up a post i think i'd get up uh go radio i'd get a hold of it and they wanted to come on for an interview earlier those in the breakfast show so i was up like just woke up one eye open had a houseboat and done the interview and then after that i thought i better put a post on facebook and without thinking just fired the post up my mum texts me she's like you know just tagging me and all these stories and stuff like that and um people i never knew would have would have listened to my music in the first place just sharing it and stuff like that it was brilliant man it was it was almost overwhelming you know i mean it was overwhelming to be honest but it was and obviously just it paid off and you kind of see a big enough thank you you know what i mean when you were on everyone you run radio scotland as well aren't you radio scotland a capital got me on as well so which is you know that's that's new you know that that's surprising usually i feel that these commercial radio stations and certainly things like radio scotland are capital they tend to have songs you know that are on a repeat or the record labels have played a lot i i think i think it has something to do with that is it's like maybe they want to play the uk top 40 or something like that because as always obviously the most can i come songs that are on the radio and so i think they might have just a contracted pleasure i mean i'm talking maybe i don't know but they managed to get me clips to get me close to the song and that's fair enough because even at that it's a big taster and someone somebody hears that some of the locals brought it and so on it's getting played on capitol maybe that's a brilliant opportunity i mean hopefully people somebody will see less than stable they did because at this point so i think it's probably better to how good the song is you know and you hit the nail on the head earlier when you said it's a song about it if you don't laugh you'll cry and this is the perfect time a year of the perfect year even to bring that out you know i mean some of the alright said it's so relatable to know exactly and that is it's one of the one of the proselytics is when stuff happens back to back you know what i mean as it's just one thing after another now you know i mean it's sending obviously we're back in a tier 4 locked down as we just as we're speaking so it's it's bonkers you're just waiting for the next thing to happen at this stage i know i'd imagine this time of year as well as usually extremely busy for you know christmas approaching and gigs coming up it's almost a time when everybody wants to get in and have a dance and listen to music i know is it exactly in august i had i had inquiries for christmas parties and stuff like that and and i was i was like hopefully everybody's in the same boat hopefully we'll be um thinking that by christmas i shall all be gone and we'll never think about it again you know it's no so all these are now cancer and stuff like that so it's i i would have been a busy time a year so i think everything's the same but you know i mean even because my shoppings retailers small businesses and all that kind of thing everything's going to be help with us how does someone let you almost get through that you know because i'd imagine that's a big source of your income as well just taking away um i mean you do you need to i chose to go back to uni as well just to complete my degree so that that was like when it got to maps and stuff like when it all started walking down i thought everyone's slowing down i know what i said when i was doing nothing so they got to something so i had one year on my degree left i chose to go back and do that so i'm just going to be completing that hopefully by may and that's hopefully she'll see us through until gigs come back people will go how the hell you oh god i better go back to you and do that [Music] to keep going and that's that's pretty much it so we spoke about you know the the success the the single and shooting up the chat snack you know i was i was delighted to see it but the video's out now i suppose that's another response for you as well we can continue that that hype the video was like it was a lot of fun to shoot um but we've done it and parts of our motherboard and then went into glasgow and stuff like that but it was good fun it's just obviously highlighting the message of the song and all the bits and hope everybody that sees it enjoys it and gives that visual i suppose it's a very happiness before christmas as well isn't it hopefully to your people often i i mean it's those we better say i i hope people get a giggle and and obviously hope they enjoy the song say the things as well but it's good to get some visuals to it as well because i think something people can really message your song and stuff like that so it's good it'll be good for people is like there was a lot of people i don't i had never met before or encountered the sharing and stuff like that and i'll just just have this guy you know i mean and it's good because they've maybe missed a lot of the live streams or something like that so i hopefully people will start putting a taste on him because the cover for the the singles are a cartoon which is drawn by lame show so people must think there's a wee captain guy kicking over writing songs at this stage so i i'll put that i must put her face to her name as well you know we spoke about the scottish music scene and and you know it's been so successful recent years you've obviously get capaldi at the top of the tree uh whatever else but do you feel it's quite supportive is there a lot of things out there to push musicians for them i know that you've uh you've been along quite often and done stuff with mike hargan as well and and it seems like there's been a lot of people that's come off the back of that mick mike was brilliant um doing all the big gigs for him that was in the boost and king dutch and stuff like the opportunities he came for that were endless almost you know i mean um i've managed to get king touch main stage and stuff a few times and obviously just it's playing regularly is the main part for me see as long as as long as there's a platform if they play regularly then you need to keep up with practice and you know always seek to improve so it's it's great to have that in glasgow especially um there's a lot but when it's all happening there's a lot i can add jam nights and stuff like that and i think the opportunity to play with to play with other musicians is essential especially as a solo artist is you can kind of fall out of that and keep your own time in somebody else's you know i've encountered counting completely differently for you so it's good to kind of keep within that rhythm and get as many dramatics and stuff and you see so many talented musicians at these things as well it's inspiring you said they haven't been a solo artist which would you ever have a band i feel like i've always played in bands myself and you put yourself out there when you're a solo artist you're in your own if somebody [ __ ] up it's you know i've been there plenty plenty because there's a loop pedal i use as well so yeah um i mean i've got a lot better now but early days using the look pedal there were so many like end pubs it was just like random strings getting picked within the loop and different knocks and percussion that sort of thing and stuff like that didn't they said they always go to plan but um i i i think you're doing it you can rely on yourself a lot and i would i would consider having a band i think a lot of the music i write you can only do so much with a loop pedal and it would just be like acoustic versions almost so when venues and all the rest they'll open i can probably almost definitely say my first gig back will be weatherband that's why i'm going to say that so that's my i've just decided this to know so maybe i actually need to come out to think about that but i think the first definitely when venues and stuff are open i'll be seeking to do my act with a band and stuff actually so people can get the for their songs you know i think that's amazing to see there's there's people as well you know that you know well young connor young corner fife who's well i've conor five's amazing man she's been such a young musician he's incredible you know that way and when i remember i seen him i don't know i always get mixed up with his age because i always i'm amazed by how young he is but i think it was it was 9 or 10 when i first seen him and it was brilliant and i've seen him again when he was 10 11 stuff like i was at the mcmurray and he just kept getting better and better and better and better and and he's playing abandon his album he's top class he's a very very talented young musician it seems to me that there's this real scene in glasgow and the people that work the hardest are the ones that are getting the rewards like calling on yourself like i remember seeing as you said connor when he was younger and yourself as well and it's like he's went through playing you know one gig a month to play every weekend all the time solo artists at first and now back in bands behind you know and people crying out for for more music i i it's great to see as good as me as this especially as i said i've seen him starting going to see him just come on so much and he's he's he's had that the opportunity and that can have that platform they've always been able to get out and gig and he's totally took it and run with like you know what i mean he's done the absolute best he could with it and he's been brilliant who else should be looking out for you are they yeah are they grounded if you see a musician that's working hard and continually putting out content and you should really kind of try and zone in what they're doing you know what i mean because these people are trying really hard and working really hard at something and i think musicians aren't made without support you know what i mean i think if you know someone who's trying to be a musician or if you can i know someone through someone or heard someone once be liked i would say you know if you like your movie share you know what i mean by encouragement because brilliant talent can come to anyone with the right support i think that i think that is vital what you said there because you've noticed that firsthand as you said earlier there's people you don't know just sharing your stuff makes a huge difference but as well i've seen someone recently share something on twitter and instagram i think it wasn't it was like you can have a quarter or a million spotify plays and it gets you peanuts you know i calculate well i calculated smile got twenty thousand uh i calculated how much it would be initially i was like what how's that how's that you know what i mean i think it was about 60 quid or something in the music industry or you know who online bands are putting tunes out don't understand like people will see you being in the top 10 and they're like oh you must be doing well i must be making a fortune and don't get wrong you're doing very well musically but it doesn't pay the bills off yet and they literally doesn't always translate i know especially with a 100 the sales do make a massive difference and i think that's either things that's always backed up with kind of live kicks or doing a tour and stuff like that so that i'm i'm on the back foot a wee bit with that because there's no i'd love to do that that's obviously kind of my first protocol when i can but um nah i don't that's a as it's about yeah it's about being in the neck with that um but i know the shields make a difference especially at the minute you know what i mean and hopefully that aids towards the live shows then being successful when it comes to it did you have any festivals lined up for that show i hadn't applied for any no i hadn't i hadn't when i had to apply for any well this year but it's been great it's been it was really good to get a party there they can have online festivals when they when they came about during the summer and stuff like that i've done a couple of them and whatever i can get my hands on that [ __ ] i'll be there but you know what i mean i'm i'm keen to get back out and playing and hopefully festivals will be the next step for that especially i've always kind of showed the way for festivals because i don't like being at a festival and listening to covers you know what i mean and for a very long time i was basically doing my music i was still learning at a stage you don't mean but doing all these covers you're learning and stuff like that which is a 100 that you haven't been doing but uh i would never would they have wanted to play a festival act back then doing cover songs you know what i mean or my interpretations or songs so i could probably say now that i've been able to go out and do a set of mountains even better hopefully when it comes to it so about i feel a bit more confident going forward for the coming years have you got other tunes in the pipeline that you're ready to record there ready to record a big statement um but i'm a bit as i just need to go into athlete you know i mean as we're saying earlier on with the doubting the zones and stuff like that but those i like songs all the time and they don't always come to the public eye or you know i mean i never really share them but i'm always writing every day i'll come up with something i was trying every time i pick up the guitar to at least work on maybe when i started or start something new or something like that and so and sometimes even the stuff you've wrote trying different keys and trying different rhythms or if it's a fast song slow it down you know what means of a different impact like that they do take a lot of work to get a lot of ground what to start with you know what i mean to then come it sound like something so you can have an idea in your head when you're going forward but no i'm writing all the time and hopefully all going well obviously right now it's going to be quite hard with further restrictions for the last time so yeah people can be guaranteed that i'll be i'll be bringing out more music hopefully before the new year comes but that is that's going to be a hard one to watch um so if not in 2021 will be a year for some new music it's going to be a big year for you here's hoping yes well it goes far to say yes it's going to be my year is that too cheesy so looking forward um i just need to keep working that's exactly you never know what's going on it could completely flop it could do well but it will be there regardless and tommy we've played loads of gigs together and i know that you're quite fun there and i eat and enjoy every beer as well and i don't know how you manage to play in all these pubs and stay professional i i don't drink when i'm gigging so happened a couple of times but they're probably one of the best guys um but no i do i try and keep myself professional especially if uh if a venue is paying you to put on a certain standard of show then it's less to worry about if i'm drunk oh god but if i you know i mean you start going it's in a different mindset i need to be in the mindset to be on stage typing so always always i basically to keep myself professional when i'm playing when that's up when that's all happening that's definitely my choice i think that speaks volumes about yourself you know and where have you seen this going you know don't get me wrong that started off as a hobby for you something that you done in your spare time play music and now you know this is something that you want to do and you've committed yourself to and i strongly believe that your future is in music you know that's what you're going to do the rest of your life yeah i mean as you say it was it was always a hobby but even when it was a hobby it was it was 100 what i wanted to do with my malaysia i mean i wanted to dedicate to it and see i remember i had a job in castle i've told that story before but i'll tell it quickly but basically i had a job in castles turned up knuckles after i got on the flight tonight and the saturday morning my boss stopped me down and went you're going to make a choice between selling cars you kind of do both here or playing in jegs and i've tried to sell it right i basically said to them well i'd rather go and do that you know what i mean catch you after but so up the road and get a wee job just cleaning dishes in the restaurant type thing just and i can get a holiday and i've just started doing gigs so but that that that was a few turning points i thought like i need if you're going to do this you see the people who are doing it and i'm always like the likes i was always out at gigs socializing stuff like other musicians and the ones that i really seem to know i'm going to do work as well no no i want to do music i always like was intrigued as to how they were making money from it and keeping myself going and stuff like that so it basically got to that stage i was about 21 i think as far as far as i thought he wanted to do it i thought maybe i don't know but basically i said to myself right i'm going to just do this this is my but i just took it upon myself and try to go out there and make a make a go at it you know what i mean because you have to you really do have to it's like you might i i'm i'm the artist managing the artist and doing all the promotional stuff as well it's time consuming at the same time you know what i mean when everything's going so i really had to dedicate myself to to get the right results i wanted i think that's really brave tommy and i i think you know you're you're lucky even though you said that you'd that doubt at first for your family i thought it was mental people are like like don't make it screw they're not here you know i mean left that left like a good job to just like how many musicians out there that has the same conversations with uh you know their girlfriend or their partner or their boyfriend or their families and their families went now you can either get those to pay and you've missed it in it it's actually a shame that it comes to that you know like i feel that playing the guitar and singing and that should be a viable option for people if they are good enough to do it there shouldn't be that i'm not sure if you'll make enough money that go for it you know love your dream a lot 100 and people didn't realize like um the majority 90 at least of musicians working musicians will have portfolio careers you know i mean it's not just it's not just playing the guitar you can you can find what doing other things and to support what you're doing and the part-time jobs are a massive player in this jobs within the industry are also a massive player you know what i mean and as much as they have to come across if you can work that on your schedule and get all that kind of stuff done it's that it's definitely doable you know i've been the the creative industries and stuff like that as much as they've been you know brought down recently slated i mean not so much that but people are getting told to retrain and stuff like that as this isn't going to be forever it's no you know what i mean and i think if once the industry open backs up back once the industry opens back up again then there should be you know a lot of if it goes back to normal then there should be a lot of opportunities in place i totally agree with you 100 which you brightened up the nation with this one so i'm hoping it's not going to be doing gloom you're going to be heartbreaking no i'm going to break up these hearts again no i'm i'm between a few i think we're talking about there um got i've got one song everything in between it's called and it's pretty much just getting yourself it's kind of actually what we've just been speaking about it's just like you know taking that leap and taking the chances that that was what i wrote that song once i left that job and it was just to take the chances that i'm in front of you and if you want to do something you know what i mean don't always be pigeonholed and a this is with you but and i've got i've got a few more a few more that are just that other than the the writing stages at the minute so tell me we'll be checked back in but i have to say you know it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you it's uh thank you very much for having me on it's been amazing i know i know i know it's been ages i'm sure i'd drop by your upper crush but i would still feel to come and talk to you just in case anything cost on me i'm watching and wondering what other person has if you're ever in mother oh that is a sandwich bar that you you need to check out yes i'll vouch for them as well or uh uh checking together one or two i'm quite a fan of checkmate cafe i have to say they're good checking sweet corn as well what's it just a it's going to be better right on you we've got to have the chat yeah what time is it absolutely tommy it's been an absolute pleasure and thanks to everyone who has watched this episode of the dw podcast please oh check out tommy mcguire on spotify itunes all the usual places you can get them on instagram facebook twitter i was going to say tinder but i don't like you on that anymore not no on tinder anymore you can make a mommy um i've got a website as well people want to check out tommywire.com.uk uh thanks to everyone who's listened to this episode of the podcast please like and subscribe and we'll see you again soon cheers thanks very much [Music] you