Going Deeper with Taylor Frankie Paul - Secret Lives of Mormon Wives | The Viall Files w/ Nick Viall

Intro you're [Music] crazy Taylor welcome to the Val fall thank you and thank you for having me thank you for coming yeah we often like to start these episodes with a heavy question I think it's appropriate for you how's your heart my heart yeah how's your heart that is it's like early H my heart right now now is very full and overwhelmed I say full and overwhelmed that seems appropriate given where you're at today yeah yeah yeah there's a lot well we have a lot to cover okay we do appreciate you coming I feel like this has been a long time coming yes two years ago I talked to you yeah when when Mom talk blew up and the I think the soft swinging Scandal uh ripped Across America or the world maybe across the world was it International World by storm probably it TI Tok it was ginormous yeah oh yeah cuz in Europe they always tell me they're like we love your story in Europe I'm like oh boy uh yeah we DMD briefly yeah about getting you on the show and then I'm curious actually what happened after that and then it didn't happen I wasn't sure you kind of disappeared yeah I think everything happened so fast sure I think we had a was it a phone call we had maybe do we have a phone call we might have talked about having a phone call I think you remember saying I I sounded sad you're like she sounds really sad we talk on the phone I think so and I don't know how that even happened to be honest maybe we didn't or maybe I have a I think we did talk on the phone and then yeah and it seemed like everything was too much like yeah I was like I had you know podcast coming I'm like okay this is cool but also like my life is falling apart and but I'm like I also have to survive right now so like so could you bring us kind of up to speed in terms of obviously we have the new show coming out and when the show starts there's a bit of there's some time jumps it opens up it seemingly shortly after Mom talk kind of came out on the scene shortly after The Swinging Scandal but right before your arrest mhm when did filming or the conversation around making this into a show start and that kind of um happened before the arrest like where's the timeline in terms of how this all came to be I am kind of curious because it seems like it's been a a long time coming I think there's been a lot of speculation I wasn't sure when we first reached out if that was part of the reason why nothing really happened CU it was like Hey we're actually filming show yeah I remember seeing a Tik Tok of you and Dakota and it was like they're filming in some place like what are they filming what's going on yeah and that was a long time ago so yeah I'm curious too yeah so I think once everything hit I I'm going to say July 2022 I think you had reached out I talked to you before I had the offer so no I didn't know anything about that I think I talked to you and I was like am I going to go on here it would have been a mess if I came on let's just just say cuz I like was all over I went on like I think TMZ and it was a mess cuz I just didn't have my thoughts ready I was like surviving so I felt like I ended up just like not you know coming on and talking about it and then the show got presented I think shortly after that and you know I was like yeah I would love to go on because I haven't had the time to like tell my story I'm like anything you know you got a little piece of like what actually had happened so I was like this would be the perfect opportunity to go on and tell my story and of course like it was like back and forth because they were trying to get the other girls involved and of course they didn't want to right like they were well they were like if Taylor's doing it we don't want to do it vice versa like it was a huge mess there um and then yeah more mom talk got the opportunity so they took it so they were trying to get the green light of with like I think it was like Hulu right I don't know if they were trying to see who wanted to pick it up Hulu did and so we got the green light kind of like a waiting game and then I got arrested so then it was like I think they put a stop to it like I don't I don't know if they wanted me on it at all so we're going to do this without Taylor so they did casting again and then I think I don't know I don't I I can't speak for them but I think they kind of like watched me after and kind of see like where I took my life was it For Better or For Worse sure and so they're like I think let's let's add Taylor back on you know okay so let's rewind a little bit okay when you first Where It Started came out on the scene and and you were all of a sudden like hey I'm Taylor franking Paul I'm a Mormon I'm a swinger life's crazy what even prompted you to even start that chaos so to speak okay so we were obviously like in an open relationship with a group of friends and when you say we you and your ex-husband yes okay yeah and yeah and and my my my my best friend you know so and some other people but when you say best friend you mean also your ex-husband or there was another person yeah my another person like obviously the group so I have my husband and then I have my best friend and then her husband and then like some other people are their names out there are they public figures as well or are are they are they have trying to avoid beinging being brought up in this conversation cuz it does seem kind of unclear right like who was actually involved in like is it the girls on the show with you because they all seem like kind of mad that you said this but then it's like is was it even them I you know it is very confusing it is it's a sticky situation because it's not like it's my story of like what happened to me but also people involved and I feel like I owe them some sort of like privacy and respect but I'm also trying to give the story so of my part so it's really hard to like not like fool on like I I mean people kind of know like if you really wanted to like like my friends like it's it's out there and yes she is a public figure so it's not hard to put the finger on and they've come out and podcasts have came out since the show is coming so they've spoken on it yes but which to why right like why are they getting scared why are people scared and it's like you guys are just like like outing yourself still at this point like I never going to come clean and like say names like that is up to them if they want and which there's a podcast out now and different stories and it's just um it's messy there again like I I can only tell like my side so I know that's why and the girls in the show they were kind of like involved because I had said mom talk someone from mom talks involved so everyone was like oh everyone trying to figure out who it was in the mom talk group you still best friends with this girl no no no no that ended there's been a total falling out that summer yes because you outed everyone um so that one is more it's actually I don't think I've even gone more into detail about that so the day my so I going back I had an oh an affair at the night of one of we were all drinking and I had an affair with one of the men that we were already intimate with like Okay so let's back up even how Swinging did how did the whole swinging stuff start it wasn't even a conversation I think we were all drinking um and part and then the guys were like you gu you girls should make out like make out you know it's hot we're like okay it's hot and so we make out and that's that and I feel like I'd done that in my younger years it wasn't a big deal to me so I was like okay and college yeah yeah like but we're all you know married more woms with kids but yeah same thing um yeah so we just did that and then I think we we did another the guys were like oh that was awesome like we were driving home it was just like this weird like whatever again we threw another party and same thing and then it was like let's take off your clothes and do lingerie pictures together while making out and it just like esal everyone was kind of turned on by okay how many couples are at this point two it's just me and another couple well it's just us and another couple starts yeah so very yeah just like escalates and then um we do this for a while with this couple cabin parties making out in the same bed H intercourse in the same bed next to each other and the girls kissing and the husbands touching the otherwise I don't know if you want details but like it just like we want details it just starts to escalate and or ES and then there's another couple we have parties and you can kind of gauge like I don't know how you know but you kind of can gauge who's who would be down and who wouldn't you know so there was another couple that we brought in a probably a year later and he's like yeah we should get the girls to make out like he jokes the husband and so the husband like the other guys are like okay like this guy's probably down right and so they bring this couple in and so the couple's like do you guys want to have like a four or some like one of our second times hanging out and we're like whoa and so this me and my husband start to escalate with this couple cuz they're like more down and orinal yeah you could just tell like this one is like all on board where the other ones maybe like one's on board one back a little bit so I think I feel like things kind of went crazy there and then there was a point that to be you know I guess if you want details we were at a cabin I'm with this other man completely naked like we're about to like go full force and then he's with the wife going he's about to go full force your ex husband is with okay and I think he comes to this he's like super drunk he comes to like this realization of like um your ex-husband or the okay the my my ex and he's like we can't we can't do this like what if one of you get gets pregnant we don't know like who's the dad like this is this is not okay like yeah and you say that out loud it gets weirder yeah yeah yeah and so we're like okay yeah yeah you're right like I don't even know how we got to this point so he like says let's let's let's cut back let's maybe not do this and the other right this the man of the other couple is like yeah let's not do this anymore with this couple cuz this man is getting jealous of like this situation so it gets really weird really fast and like like like let's chill and so my husband is like okay maybe we should stop doing it with our best friends like our friends and like we maybe we could do this with strangers like I think he wanted to close the whole thing down cuz he's like he could kind of see people are creating feelings at this point like friends like you can tell people are like getting jealous weird and so he's like let's let's cut this out you know and so I'm like okay well it kind of sucks cuz we're used to this party now like I'm like this is fun like why like what and so I wasn't on board then and so we were kind of on different pages the whole time and then yeah I ended up catching feelings for one of the men in the group and one of the men caught feelings for me so it was kind of like three out of the six caught feelings and then I yeah I had the affair I had an emotional affair like I feel like we were all texting each other weirdly anyways like it was just a weird thing like everyone was when this started I mean you you describe it I mean maybe innocently is the wrong word but you guys the way you describe it is like you know inexperienced swingers in a way yes we had no idea what was going on and you were very being very experimental yes and it seemed like yeah you almost like a bunch of young kind of in you know inexperienced people who didn't do the thing that I think people who do participate in this lifestyle often do which is set very clear and defined boundaries and there seems to be people with I guess at least some experience I think there's the sex element of swinging and things like that that you know it's the juicy stuff the stuff the details we want to know type of thing yeah but there is I think for the people who participate in this kind of untraditional Lifestyle for those who do it I get successfully yeah there are rules and there are boundaries and there are clear conversations and and I get the impression that none of that was going on in your group no nope um I mean the the most we had a conversation with my husband was like let's just make sure we're not doing any of that like behind closed doors with anyone like no sneaking off like cuz these parties got you know pretty crazy you're drunk like you don't know where everyone is at all times and so it was like messy and so I think we like came to terms and I that's where I went wrong was it like at some point at the at the height of these crazy parties where were individuals in relationships kind of like sneaking off to another room like almost like a high school college party where like people disappear and you're then in her room and they hook up or is this all in the same room together orgy Style I want to call it the after hours of our parties so I would say I they were at cabins and then my house okay so we would have lots of people there like lots of couples I would say that like to like drink you know everyone was flirty and whatever and so they'd go home and then the main people would stay and it's kind of where things would escalate so like one of the husbands was always spending the night at my house like without his wife she'd go home and he'd spend the night nothing really ever happened like without her but like it was weird that he was staying the night in general you know MH like my my husband would be like I don't know like he's here like he would go in and check on me at night like cuz we had separate bedrooms I don't know if you remember that like your ex-husband uhhuh I talked about that a lot I feel like but like more on like podcast and stuff and is on the news I don't know why but anyways like CNN yeah Mormon slept in separate bedrooms breaking new no the really sad thing it was like you can make a marriage work with st bedrooms and it was on the news and then my news came out after and it was like it was bad it was a mess in itself in that one that's another story but so he'd come in and check on check on me but yeah it was the after hours like we would just get down like after everyone left and and it would be in a room yeah or the living room of a cabin we'd get blindfolds and and and place in the bottle and everyone would make out with everyone you get blindfold all the husbands would have to like you know kiss me and have to guess and vice versa and wow it's very love Island very love Island lots of games like creative of y'all okay so love Island that was the first time I ever saw it was a season and I'm like I was watching I was like yeah that is literally all the games I played oh no at my house it was pretty bad um so where were your children while these swinging parties were happening they were at s like my mom so okay and you know she came out and was like I would have never Babys sat for you if I would have known that was going down like wow I would have never done that you know and or they'd be upstairs out with their white noise machine on with their white noise machine on okay yeah I know I know really bad to admit but like that's it was that and then yeah I think that's where the guilt you know still sticks but I think there's obviously going into Religion this new season I think there's always been a fascination with the Mormon religion I come I grew up very Catholic um not the same as Mormon but uh I'm very familiar with a very devout upbringing and obviously the lot of the expectations the shame around sex the pressure um of of maintaining a certain lifestyle or at least the appearance of a lifestyle I think is very fascinating I think that's why so many people are excited and fascinated for this show as you look back what role did your upbringing in your religion your faith how you you know I don't know how devout you are today how did that play a role in this all happening the soft swinging or or is that just kind of like yeah we happen to be Mormon but like honestly this has that has nothing really to do with it well I feel like I can't speak for like them but I will say a lot of them like their spouses were like their first person they had ever been with okay so um that being said I feel like this was like such like you're saying like something you do in college and so I feel like they didn't really experience that they I mean my ex you know partied for the first time at age 29 so it was like very new to them and so was exciting and so I felt like for me I had partied like in my younger years so I like I experien this but I think for them they didn't so it was like very like that's why it was so messy it was just so fast and didn't know what we were doing we were like almost like like kids you know like acting like it but religion uh I guess that's the only part is like I feel like they were so devout as growing up like a lot of them that this was like just like you know a can of worms open and so it was like an experience but for me I feel like yeah religion didn't play a part in it other than guilt of like you know this is wrong and I think maybe not even religion you can kind of see like that's probably not right but in our heads it was right it was okay because our spouse is knew we were on the same page so I like it wasn't wrong in the time I was like this is fun we're not doing anything wrong like this is good like it I think Nick can relate to just the like feeling guilt of I mean like being so Catholic growing up and then like you like making out with a girl or something and you'd be like wait no this is wrong there definitely like anytime when I was in high school if I would you know mess around with someone there's always like a yeah like a shame hangover the next couple days of like I shouldn't have done that or you know all these things well you're raised with it to feel that way yeah so how do you not yeah it definitely it definitely [ __ ] with you and I think when it comes to the Mormon religion there's a lot of it seems well whether it's the Mormon religion I guess or any other kind of devout Christian uh faith-based you know life there seems to be a lot of loopholes it seems like or stories you hear about Mormons uh what's the very common one soaking soaking oh gosh no uh I don't know if that's I don't know are you familiar with that okay is that a thing it's a thing it is a thing it is over in uh or or Utah your favorite you know no it's a thing and for the people who don't know what that is uh you want me to say right well I I mean or does not I can say it's the the guy just puts his penis inside of the woman and doesn't move just and then you have a friend boun is that real though does a friend actually jump jump on the bed to move I don't know if that part's real that seems crazy to me like you have to bring and I'm not even bringing up to like do a a a master class on soaking soaking but it's more how much that's a very specific one but how much of that kind of stuff goes on in the Mormon faith with people are there a lot of like loopholes people talk about like anal sex like is there a are there conversations in the Mormon Community where like anal sex isn't losing your virginity or oral sex is like absolutely how yeah how is that work and with with people in your community yeah I mean again I don't want to speak for them cuz you know they'll all come at me saying she doesn't speak for us but like just from your point of view it happens it happens and I think I feel like yes you're trying to find this like loophole of like is it such um a natural desire you know you know to want to you know have sex and whatnot especially with someone you love right it's just like but we're taught that don't do it until you're married so it's like bad bad bad you're married good and so I feel like for women it it is a little like I've heard stories of where they felt very confused of like what they're supposed to do on their wedding night because it's so taboo to talk about it it's uncomfortable a lot of people aren't and so they're and they're scared to go to their parents too cuz it's you were taught it's it's wrong right and so uh I I don't know for the loop I was never like by the book so a more devout Jen might be the one to ask how that is or or like Whitney you know she's a returned missionary I was a little against the rules all the time too and and I would wake up feeling you know guilt and even for like a cup of coffee like that one I had to like let go cuz like I would drink coffee and I'd feel like this guilt cuz you're not supposed to and so when you're saying you'd wake up with that like hangover um of guilt it's it's very real and true um in that sense though I feel like I was more on the Wilder side with like you know I I still did all of that you know even though I wasn't supposed to and so the other girls might be better for that gotta but so from your standpoint you're basically saying the soft swinging phase of your life was more just Taylor being the wild child but maybe for the other participants that there might have been some religious rebellious absolutely elements to it yeah for sure and I had been I feel like a really good still a good girl too for like six years of my marriage like I didn't drink I didn't do anything crazy like I was very like I feel like a good wife and partner and I felt like also I did have a wild side so when that opened I was like let's go like you know like it was just like almost like you felt like it was almost p his box yes yes I don't know if that's good to admit but yeah like it just felt like I don't know I've been so good it felt freeing I don't know is that the right word that's not yeah that's not a bad thing yeah let's talk about your Marriage Ending arrest I feel because I feel like wait before we get to the arrest why did your marriage end um yeah I think one the affair but I think more than all we were obviously I think struggling already and um it was done before it was done and so I think we kind of came to the conclusion of like it's best that we part ways you know we said we'll give it this summer and see where things go but I think we kind of knew deep down it it's like done was that after the affair came out or before before for me I asked for a separation I think twice before okay um so I was like at least trying to get clarity of like do I want this do I need I it was more like I needed like some some space to think about everything and then I think everything escalated so fast and I think the night of um everything that story I haven't really told either I don't know if you want me to tell but like basically like you to tell one of the husbands came up to me in the group and and came and told me he had feelings for me at the gym and so nothing was like over text or anything so I didn't like have any proof but I came home and told my husband I was like your best friend just told me you had feelings for me so I just want to let you know in my head I'm like okay we're messing with fire like he's like okay yeah we open those doors like I'm not happy he told you that because he was expecting something in return so like I I feel like he went behind my back but also we've put ourselves in the situation like he kind of knew mhm and me in my head I already know what was going on like I you know had feelings for this other man so it was like really messy so the wife um it gets out that he tells me that cuz I tell the wife of this other this other couple she goes and tells people it gets out so you told your ex-husband then you also told a friend of yours yeah the friend group kind of and then yeah I did tell the friend group and then the wifey over here calls and says hey I heard this like you have something to tell me I just curious what it was and this is my best friend so I'm like I knew the second cuz I Deb to tell her I'm like okay um if I tell her I lose my best friend forever and but I don't have feelings for him so I feel like I don't know what to do but if I don't tell her I'm a bad friend so like I'm sitting in the middle here I go not telling her and then she's like do you have something to tell me I heard this and so I like deny her husband's calling me on the other phone deny deny deny like wow and I'm like I think we should just come clean like we've all messed up let's come clean like this is really heavy like I can't do this like I'm like having panic attacks at this at this point there's another man that you've been hooking up with outside of the I mean I kissed him yeah like I wasn't like sleeping with him she she said it was an emotional yeah but then I did sleep with him the one night gotcha so there but there was another okay okay yeah yeah so I he the husband's calling me deny deny I'm like feeling like [ __ ] cuz I'm like this is a shitty person I'm a shitty person right now and um I I tell my husband and and he's like I think you just need to tell her like I ended up denying it and I um we go she's like just come over to my house we all go to their house at night I get there and I'm taking shots cuz I'm miserable like I'm a horrible person I like black out I think within the first 10 minutes there and then I call my friend or I was in the corner and the husband of who I was having the affair with comes in the corner and then the other husband that gets jealous comes and he's like they're like talking really weird in the corner back there like something's going on so my husband comes over he's like what's going on like so this is like where it's like blowing up I'm like I just got to go like I so I call a friend to come pick me up I go to my friend's house I'm at my friend's house you have the guy that I'm having the affair with calling me can I come pick you up you have the other husband can I come pick you up my husband where are you like everyone's calling me I'm belligerent like I'm like drunk but I'm like still like I think I ignore everyone but I told him where I am and then the guy I was having an affair with is like can I come pick you up and his wife sends him to come pick me up did she know about the No No but they were all they wanted me to come spend the night with them like you see it's just weird like the whole thing is weird and so just out of control yes yes and so the guy had F comes over I hook up with him at that house and then that night that night and I don't remember much of it and I won't say like I don't want to call it anything but I just don't remember much of it I was pretty blacked out and I've never claimed anything I know people are like well you you like sexual assault and I'm like no like I I full un believe that I wanted that so I like never have claimed that so but I cannot say like what had happened in that room I do always slept with him I woke up um very messed up down there and so that was really really bad like oh that was so hard sorry like no like that must be really hard I mean was he also drunk or was he sober I don't know I can't say I I don't I don't know okay um but yeah my husband came and picked me up I denied like everything um that night and he's like I actually didn't even ask me he took me home and he like took care of me sorry it's okay um and then take a deep breath okay I don't want to cry sorry there's a tissue right next to you um he like he came and he asked me he's like did you do anything last night with him and I was like No And of course the husband's like deny the other husband's like deny deny and like H I'm like okay like I'm like so lost and I end up coming clean that day um that I did and um they're like he came clean so I'm like yeah we did like I just wanted to come clean and and I it was like the worst day because I've I hurt him yeah that's where I'm like still like I don't think I'm like healed from that yet like I just like that's so shitty to do to someone oh um and and lying about it um do you feel like you were lying to protect your marriage or to protect the guy you were having the affair with or prot your best friend think to not admit anything like I just think I was like hiding because I'm like I at that point I knew if I'd say something everything blows up like this is done like my life's like with my life with this is over with my husband you know so I figured like yeah he's going to you know leave me which is fine I guess this way is what shitty you know right and yes my friend and so everything blew up that day he found out you know he's freaking out and it was very unexpected I think for him like because I think he might have gauged it maybe with the other husband but not this one so I think it blind was like wo wo wo wo you know and this was his best friend both of his really close friends yeah and I yeah told the truth I had my mom come over she's like what's going on I had told her everything like what I just did my friend I told her she was going to stand by my side my best friend and then like she was like no matter what you've done like I'm here for you but then my husband my ex goes and tells them like by the way your husband told her she had feelings for you and she didn't tell you so so then of course she's like yeah Taylor's lying she he never said that they like in denial and I'm like okay like that doesn't do anything for me to like make up that lie like right yeah that's a shitty position you were in uh um I lost everyone in that day so I mean the whole thing's obviously a mess but some other person telling you they have feelings for you is not a not your fault obviously you were trying to protect I guess probably everyone in that moment so then you tell your best friend a lie m well I knew I lost her if I told her that you know why would you have lost her if her husband said I had feelings for you well I don't know it's just like ultimate women hating women when you know like that's from a woman's standpoint it's like she would have blamed you for it well not only that but you would want to never hang out with me again right like yeah you wouldn't like trust your husband your husband with your you know it would definitely ruin the friendship I can for sure and not only that like yeah it was just a mess and he denied it of course and said he never said it and I'm like I don't care if you don't believe that's fine I don't care like that does nothing for me that makes me look worse of a person why would I make that up that lie that doesn't do anything for me but yeah and then that happened and I lost everyone that day have you talked to your best friend since the one that was married to the man you had the affair yeah so she wasn't my best friend so I only know them for two months oh okay so yeah I want clear that great clarification uh yeah I would I I would like to say I'm a girls girl I know that doesn't sound like good but like I barely knew them they were very instigating the situation too so it was like in my head like she instigated a lot as well and I I didn't know her that well and this is my best friend like I've never done that never in a million years what sounds like as soon as he told you you were uncomfortable yeah yeah oh he knew you knew what it meant yeah when he told you yeah he was uncomfortable who the the man yeah when when he told me he was very like you could tell he's like nervous and and he had sent text which I had like I have to tell you a secret and I was like what's the secret we don't have secrets and he's like I can't tell you like it's very like it's secret like I and I had all those texts and I was like if I need to send them like I I will like to your you know wife but she saw them I think and it was just like never enough and so I was like that's you and at the time other things were coming out about him so I'm was like that's you to deal with not me anymore you know so what made you bring all this drama to Tik Tok okay yeah um okay so the the couple over here my best my best friend and her husband they call another part of the friend group and it was like Taylor had an affair by like no details of anything and so it hits the internet like people like Taylor cheated Taylor cheated I guess I'm sure someone in the group put it on Reddit or some it was not hard like I don't know who did but it ended up hitting the internet and then all my Tik toks are like cheater cheater husband stealer or whatever and so I was like and then the girls were like confirming it my friends like liking it so basically it's confirming it and I'm like okay well if you're going to do that then I'm just going to go tell the story so I got online not thinking at all but like hey yes I did do this but yes we also she was you know hooking up with my husband just the other night too you know like it just didn't I just feel like it wasn't fair to come out and say husband stealer but you're also hooking up with my husband like like it wasn't done the right way in my you felt you needed to give context of how this of how it got to where it did yes I can empathize with that it feels like the entire internet is coming at you yeah I mean I know from your standpoint I'm sure it felt that way and you're being labeled this one thing but the truth is you're like we've all been doing this kind of crazy thing there's a lot more to the story than just I am some sort of home wrecker yes you know yes all the things that I'm sure the internet that you were seeing being said about you imagine that was difficult well I could have left it at that and I would have been known as the friend that takes your friend's husband like yeah I would have been I feel like labeled as that if I never had came clean about anything and they would have all been great and hidden you know and I would have been labeled as and I just feel like no so you have no regrets in terms of coming out with this information no I think I how I went about it maybe I would have thought a little more clearly but also I probably would have always came out and said something about it cuz that's just not I just didn't go do that you know like out of because I was bored you know like it it grew to that and to your point it was out yeah oh yeah yeah it was out there already so like I just came on and and said and I never thought it'd blow up I was like a couple my followers will see this great I'll solve it and then it blew up at that point how long had you guys been mom talk like how long had you been like quote unquote public figures I'm assuming relatively not long a year about with mom talk and then I had been doing social media for like probably two years on Tik Tok okay so your marriage ends yes and then how long until you meet Dakota two months oh wow so it's like in the process of divorce oh wow and then he meets a girl so we're both like dating so which was you know yeah well I mean when n and I met we we hung out for a while and we weren't in exclusive relationship and we were both very open about that we weren't exclusive and we it wasn't one of those like we're not boyfriend and girlfriend but we're exclusive which is kind of like muddies the waters with people we were very clear and so you know there was a period when we knew each other where it wasn't exclusive which you know was difficult for us at times to be open about yeah and it I with watching the season or just understanding you and Dakota it seems like a lot of the conflicts you guys have is around this what seems to be this early dating period where you guys weren't exclusive but you were also hanging out with each other yeah and feelings were being exchanged along with other things but then it there was almost some revisionist history once you guys did establish yourselves to be in a relationship right yeah yeah it was it was very messy because it was great and I think it was at the tail end of everything and and I had just like Clos things off with the guy that I had an affir with so like it was like we were friends during all like that summer like we still saw each other so after you came clean about the affair that continued for a a while yeah well we had no one so everyone like basically dropped us and I was like literally did his marriage also end yes everyone's marriage is now ended oh wow in the group oh wow yeah all everyone so your best friend's marriage and this couple that you'd only known for two months marriage yeah and then there was other people there like some that would like I don't know watch and then there marries ended too like there was a couple that one of them just watched I I don't know it's like messy would you say that it was like a Scarlet Letter walking around Utah if everybody knew or was a part of it yeah oh at the when it was being done no I feel like it was very hush hush well like once everybody knew like the marriages broke off yeah oh yes yeah did anyone blame you in the situation or the public no it's just more like you got accused of being the home wrecker you know Reddit people are talking about you on Reddit so then you go on Tik Tok you tell this whole story it becomes literally a national story yeah so I could see how it'd be very easy for these other couples to blame you because as we know especially in religious communities it's more about the sin or the shame or about like as long as people don't know about it we're fine but the moment our entire Community thinks we're something else it becomes very difficult to live with that's the impression mhm that I get is that is that accurate and I guess that's what I'm wondering are do people blame you because it's like hey we were fine before everyone knew we were swingers and now that people know we're swingers we can't make this work yeah yeah I feel like it was a big blame on me but I think they were all they were all going to get divorced regardless if it hit the internet or not like that I found out they were getting divorced before that hit the internet so the last one that got divorced I think they had issues prior to that as well so yes but they did put all the blame on me like Taylor was the instigator Taylor did this Taylor did that and I'm just like okay like we're all adults here like everyone made their own decisions everyone you know played a part in it and and maybe I'm the they blamed to bring to the internet and made it this huge thing sure you maybe that was my part I did but like I didn't force anyone to do anything that they didn't want to do you know but there was yeah fingers pointed at me and and people came out and apologize after hearing your story I mean like I'm I know what it's like to be in the public I know what it's like to be online so if if we were friends way back in the day and you were to come to me saying hey there's these Reddit rumors yada y I would have been like hey don't do the Tik Tok because I don't think you realize the platform you have and the light you're going to shine on it yeah but there's a lot of people who have been in the public eye for much longer than you have I see make that mistake every day today so it's it's hard to sit there and criticize yeah someone in your shoes knowing that it it feels like everyone's talking about you and you feel like you have to defend yourself obviously I think with the benefit of hindsight but at the same time you don't seem like you really regret it anyways because you were kind of put in that position yeah yeah so I feel like if it were me that had gone first and like laid this all out I feel like I'd feel really guilty that would sit on me like I brought this to and for why why would you do that you know I feel like there would have been it would have been unnecessary so I would have felt guilty absolutely I don't know if I even would have that's my own dirty laundry out there too you know it's like why would I do that to myself you know and this was like awful for me this wasn't good at all like I was a major villain in that story yeah do you hold any resentment towards the husbands or the man that you had the affair with of just like you are taking the brunt of all of this hate and or I don't know I mean I I've never heard of them before so are they even I mean I know their marriage ended but like are they no there's no resentment there because I think at the end of the day I I put myself in the situation I did all this to myself and there's no one to blame but me you know so there's no resentment towards them I think the only thing that really hurt is like the friends I guess like when they kind of like blamed every like the parties on me the drinking on me that was like okay but I didn't make you do any of that you know yeah that's what hurts honestly it's like they're wanting someone to blame for their own decisions that they made themselves right but no no resentment towards them that was all on me myself okay one of my favorite things to do is knowing where Nick is it makes me feel super at ease and he always knows where I am thanks to Life 360 Justin I know was like raised on this app and like please tell me more about it love no yeah my favorite thing about Life 360 is that my parents are divorced and Life 360 makes it so easy to see who's coming from what house to the other house my sister just started driving so can literally see her drive from my mom's house to my dad's house no fights really easy and I know she's safe at every second that is super cool I can't wait uh for one day when River drives to be able to have Life 360 because you can like see the speed that they're going Life 360 has your families back when they're on the road with things like crash detection emergency dispatch roadside assistance and Driver report cards which is so perfect for freshly licensed 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order when you use code v a l l at check out okay so two months later you meet Dakota yes oh and that is drama and it's Dakota so why is it much drama though like what H like how I'm like surviving at this point hating my life insecure feeling guilty feeling shitty and I meet this great guy I really like him like I click with him instantly and I'm like okay like this is my guardian angel like he's just nice like he's just listening he's been in a very dark place he's recovering addict so he's like been in Dark Places so he just wants to like help me and like be there for me but then I got to assume him being a recovering addict created a safe space for you in a way that made you feel less judged I'm guessing he was too busy judging himself and trying to heal that yeah he probably created a a very unjudged up about a lot of things which are his story to tell so yes it made me feel very comfortable and I felt good and safe and this just guy like I'm like great like I'm just going to get me out of this hell hole you know and yeah so we we start to date and and I'm like okay one thing I I want is just honesty and a fresh start that's what I want going into this cuz like that I don't want that ever again and so it was very clear to him in the beginning and so when he asked me I think our third timeing out like hey like what are we I was like well we're um we're nothing we're on our third date you know like but you are the only one I'm seeing he's like okay cool me too and then we make a tick Tok together and a girl's like oh just so you know he was like at my roommates like last week sleeping with her so just want to let you know hopefully you're not dating and so I'm like okay so I see it on the internet I text him I'm like hey have you like hooked up with anyone since seeing me he's like I did with one girl and so I I was just like okay um I text him and he's like yeah I'm so sorry he sends me like 15 messages I ignore him I'm like oh my gosh like I'm balling balling and I don't even think it's the fact that like yeah we're in the gr but like I think it's just like I trusted you and I've just been through so much like I feel like betrayal but also at the same time I was like karma's a [ __ ] like in my head I'm like this sucks so okay I'm like whatever we're in the gray like yes before okay let's start fresh and he's like okay well I'm not ready to be exclusive with you I'm like okay that's fine like whatever let's date and then I asked him to come over one night and he's like I can't I'm going I'm doing a guys night I'm like okay have fun he sends me a picture with like all the guys I'm like okay cool and then later in our relationship I find out I start asking more questions cuz we're girls we dig you know I'm like digging I'm like so at the early on I was like did you kiss anyone he like I kissed a girl a couple weeks ago whatever like I was like okay like whatever let it go and then I start digging like when we're in a relationship I'm like so when did you like kiss that girl like that you had like you you hooked up with you know and he's like it was this night blah blah I'm like putting pieces together and I'm like okay so the night I asked to hang out you were at guys night he ended up going to her house late that night hooking up with her um the night before he hooked up with me the night after he comes and hooks up with me and for a girl this is just a huge deal like I can't speak for men cuz he's like it doesn't mean anything and I'm like I get that but it means something to me I hung out with that girl the whole next day at a pool party by the way next to me okay and you had no idea no idea so I can't imagine if she would have said the night before I was like hooking up with Dakota Mort like Jen girl Jenna yes okay I don't want to make her a big deal cuz like she's I mean they she has name dropped all throughout this show so oh F me yeah sorry Jenna okay anyways I don't think I think Jenna it's not about Jenna it's not it's about like me feeling insecure and feeling less than and unworthy and not good enough like it's not about her but well and him lying to you about it yes of course and so in my head that's why still like pissed to the say like it triggers me it's crazy like I don't know how I'm not over it but it's like the feelings of that I wasn't good enough to be chosen like at that time like that night like I asked you to come over like and then you sleep with me the night before and the night after and I hang out with that girl and you don't say a word how how like in my head I'm like how did you do that to me after forgiving you 3 days after hurting me with another girl like in my I'm like I still to this day like have not Let It Go like I can't like has he come fully clean about everything happened and he's apologized and he's like I'm so sorry like I know I hurt you I was in it was the gray area like he didn't owe me that right like and yes he could go do that and that's what sucks and that's like he didn't cheat or anything it's the chosen part yeah he made you look like a fool yes and not only that but I forgave you for the first one I mean you didn't look like a fool but you know what I'm saying like it felt you here you are hang out with the girl the next day she knows you don't like anyone in that position the day she didn't know she called him that night cuz she heard me Nam drop him okay that should feel better so she hears me name drop they're like are you saying any I was like I don't even think I said his name I was like yeah and then she digged and got his name that it was him so she calls him you seeing Taylor like blah blah blah like how serious is it I don't know what he tells her on the phone on the way to my house like I dig and I dug and I got you know details I didn't want to know and I think it hurt because just the lies of it and and I was already like dead inside like dying like of everything else and so that on top of it was like wo yeah you don't care about my feelings at all like do you feel like you there's a piece of you that can relate to Dakota not choosing you that night because you didn't choose your husband that night right it's my karma absolutely I feel like God is like this is like your punishment for what you did to your spouse you're going to feel what you did so yes I have like sat in that and been like I deserve this pain I still to this day I'm like every pain I feel like you deserve it like in my head I'm like good at some point you're going to have to Let It Go yeah I know I know and to progress with him because I'm stuck I'm stuck in 2022 like you're really you're only hurting yourself at this point I know I'm torturing myself and him let's get into that in a moment but let's let's talk about the arrest the show Arrest kind of glosses over it and I'm I can't imagine how hard this is to relive I imagine this was a very dark night and something you don't want to think about or talk about often and completely understand that but I guess I remember seeing it online and yeah I would like to know how it got to the point it did like walk us through that night yeah I feel like it was a buildup so not just that night um this is post I had an ectopic a few months prior wow and then I had a chemical pregnancy so obviously don't want to blame hormones but I will put that into account like I am pretty like whack what's a chemical pregnancy it's where you lose it so early that like you don't even notice like most of the time but your body is kind of operating as if you're pregnant yes like you get pregnancy tests and then it just goes you're not anymore so I knew because I had taken one and I was and then I wasn't so they're like you probably just lost it really early so I was like okay and so I think hormones are are are whack at this point I'm feeling crazy I'm feeling lost I'm feeling I don't know what to do I'm I'm angry I'm very angry that's the one emotion I feel like which I'm learning in therapy right now is like really good to an extent right not to that point of that night but like I was finally feeling like emotion and I feel like that's the step is like anger and then I end up like drinking that night again feeling very lost I hadn't drank really lately in that time but I was feeling so low that I went and drank that night and had a girls night Dakota picks me up he's angry that I drank and I'm like feeling shitty I'm crying to the whole way home of like I hate my life like I'm like saying sorry like I'm so sorry to my family like hysterically sad and like crying and I think because the alcohol had taken down that guard like I could finally feel and so it was so sad that I was so sad and then I get home and I think about like what doota had like put on that and like it's not his fault but like I'm like wanting to cling to something so I like blame him like I hate you like I'm so angry and you know projecting on him and I get I'm like throwing things I'm like I remember like throwing things and I don't I don't know my daughters on the couch I had no idea like we had babysitters there so I think they're upstairs sleeping and so like I just like started throwing things I'm like so mad and he throw a chair and Dakota's like hey like and he's like here and I'm like so gone that I don't care like and I throw another chair and it like we don't know if it hit her or not but like it sounded like it did so in the police report it does say like it hit her but in reality like we didn't know if it hit it might have not have hit her at all like she didn't have any noticeable injuries no nothing was there like my mom took her that night they inspected her everything was was good like was she crying she I think she was crying cuz she saw me crying like yeah and when I got arrested I was like he's like are you okay and I'm like no he's like what's wrong and I'm like I'm hurting inside like I can't I can't do it and so I was like really in the inside I couldn't like I couldn't cope and then my daughter's in the window watching me and I don't care I'm just so hurt oh I'm sorry no I can't imagine and I don't care I like so careless I didn't care and that's what like hurts is like I didn't think about her you know that night and I end up getting arrested I went to jail and I'm sitting in there like hung over sorry I'm trying to tell the story for you guys thank you oh that's a hard one to tell um I'm like yeah just sitting in the cell and hating my life of course and to make matters worse and I know this is like funny to people like outside but I was dressed as a man because I was dressed as my ex like that was the party with the theme was like you're dressed as your ex so yeah I have facial hair on at this point you're a mug shot yeah you're oh no well I think I cried it off but oh boy I'm dressed as a man that night and oh yeah so bad so I go to the cell dressed as my ex and was your ex involved in the situation or was it just D you and Dakota cuz it seemed unclear oh yeah just Dakota like yeah with all this nothing to do with him nothing to do with your ex no he was like shocked cuz I feel like I'm a very calm person like I never yelled or did anything in my marriage so when he heard this he was like what is going on you know anyways I go to jail and then I was filmed leaving the gel like I don't know who filmed me and it hit the internet that day what was jail like cold very cold and depressing um they let everyone go like we were in this like holding area like all together I don't know how what that's called um but this like holding area I was obviously like I I couldn't grasp why I was I how did I get here it was in my like in my thoughts I was feeling guilty obviously for everything I had done and you know my life was like going through my like head and I knew as I got out like if I was like if get out like I need to like wake up like clean up my life and so yeah cold and then I went in the cell like they kept me and they put me in the cell and I'm like really freaking out at this point I'm like oh my gosh like I am in so much trouble I go in a Cell I'm like asking the girl like hey um do do we stay in here long like I don't know anything I was like like you're in a cell with other people just like you see in the movie yes so me and another woman and I'm like what are you in here for cuz I was like I could get beat up you know like I thought I was GNA get beat up because I in jaill in the movies you see it sometimes you know so I was like asking her what are you in here for and she was like yeah the cop accused me of trying to run him over and I was like oh my gosh I'm in so much trouble like I'm being put in here and then she was like you're going to be okay and she's like what did you do and she's like trying to help me and soothe me cuz she could just she's a mom and she could tell I was like so scared anyways I was in there for a little bit and then they let me out but it was just scary thinking about cuz I thought I was going to stay in there for a long time like I thought it was in jail do you I know you were drunk do you remember that night vividly at all or is it you do that when I was not like bull was pretty far gone but like I do remember being so angry cuz I remember seeing the and I think they show a little bit of footage body cam footage and you were saying you were in the garage and you were scared and he Dakota was like coming at you so you were throwing things to keep him away yeah I think he was trying to like defend himself and also yeah calm himself that it wasn't like yeah it was I was yeah the aggressor for sure and I think I couldn't I can't say it but there's not much he can do without like you know he's as a man he's scared to do anything so it's like kind of hard for him so the kind of to n's point the accusations you throw his way that the people are going to see watching the show you don't stand by no everything was dropped besides the assault which obviously I did like throw things at him I think I mean I did you know scratch him and you know was like going at him so that is all you know true but everything else is was dropped so obviously with your children being involved or your child there's just a lot of sensitivity about this issue um and then obviously it comes with a lot of critics for the people who follow the story who are going to watch the show um obviously difficult question but for the people who do question you as a mother and question the environment that your kids are in what would you say to them at this point it was a really big Learning lesson I feel like as you know this might sound awful but I feel like that night also came of good because I really got like help that I needed so like I instantly got in classes therapy like EMDR like it was like a very wakeup call that I needed that I wasn't doing so I feel like it was my rock bottom to hit like finally wake up and go get help that I needed also to take my to take in my kids consideration because I feel like when you're like in a really low place like I was fine with my ex taking them like I feel like I I couldn't be a good mom so I was like yes like if you're like good like I I was feel like I was like okay with them being gone a lot which now like I hate when they're gone like I'll take them any chance I get so I feel like you can just tell a difference of like healing at that point I feel like when I got all those things I needed um it it helped me and as a mom I feel like I'm sure maybe not to that extent but moms can relate of being so low you cannot like be a full you can't be like your best self for your kids you know and I feel like I'm grateful for that night so it woke me up to be better for them if that makes sense and I don't know if that's the right thing to say but I feel like in a way it helped me to be better because it woke me up of being like I was in this like still like not being like a bad mom but not being like the best mom I could be I was like so lost you know yeah and so I feel like that night was like oh my gosh like wake up you you need to be better like get up and do something and so I felt like yes I hold a lot of that guilt and that stuff but I'm like done having the pity party too it's like just wake up and be better and and and try harder at least you know you can I mean that makes sense after watching the show yeah especially with your character Arc it it it starts off the Taylor Frankie Paul that we met online and you come across incredibly troubled toxic yes you know you get arrested I think there's a lot of questions episode one of like is this person you know fit to be a mother yeah and then going forward you really seem like you are turning a corner you really seem like there's I hope demonstrations of healthy behavior and so I really appreciate you talking about this with us obviously it's difficult and obviously easier but it never does and no matter what you say I'm sure there'll be people criticizing you know your answers um and then I think the sensitivity of the issue with children being involved but you seem like you're trying to be better yeah and I want to you know know for my kids and I feel like that right now that's like my top priority and I told Dakota that like I'm sorry that we've had our struggles but they come number one right now like I've been putting them you know second and that's not fair and you know I want them like at any time I can and I'm I won't like obviously like yeah with the critics and whatnot I'm I know I messed up I was a shitty mom at that time I did a very bad thing I'm well aware thank you like I know but like I think after that is what really like you know matters and I feel like I all I want is them to be happy and so even with all this it's like hard it seems like a lot of these things that have happened in your life that you're not so proud of kind of stem from alcohol what is your relationship with alcohol today yeah um I have been sober for two years so the night of I haven't drank since so congratulations thank you um I think that is kind of like a no-brainer and that is the goal is to never you know touch that again obviously I don't like to say Never Say Never and it's just like more it's a goal you want to have you know what's your soda drink learn that about the Mormons diet Dr Pepper with some Goods in there coconut you know okay I'm an energy drink girl though like I through and through I chug those like water it's not good but with Mom life I'm just like let's go you know okay I need something and then also like I feel like I got help with um I go to psychiatrist and things like you know medications that you know help like take the edge off anxiety meds you mentioned EMDR I have done EMDR therapy before yeah it's incredibly helpful it is very hard you you very much relive your trauma but as someone who's on the other side of a lot of her trauma it is very incredibly helpful and if anyone is like has been through anything look for EMDR because it is it's it's crazy what that therapy can do it is and it can help and I feel like yeah anything even counseling like buring couples therapy as well and and that's amazing and it's really cool because they he just help you to learn the tools that you need to communicate uh when did um some of the The Show other women who are you know part of the cast who if anyone reached out or how did you get back in with that group Whitney Whitney is the one who reached out yep I didn't expect that answer yeah she she called me when she heard the other side of the story from other people the girls and she was like something about that story is really not fit like it's something is sus and she was like um I want to hear your side and so I was like okay I'll tell you everything so she came over and I told them everything that happened and they're like yeah you did a shitty thing but like we're getting told a whole lot a whole bunch of Lies over here like and so they were just like yeah we're not we're going to you were everyone's scapegoat yeah I feel like they all just eventually became my friend again like they first you know judged the situation was like okay I don't know right as anyone would they eventually came over and a lot of them were friends with me still and then it kind of split up Mom talk because it was like if you're friends with Taylor than we're staying on this side so it kind of was like this major divide yeah so Mom talk isn't just all the women we've gotten to know there was like 20 of us maybe about 20 of us wow there's a lot of us so everyone scattered were all the people in the original swinger groups part of mom mom talk in some way no one one was from just one your best friend yep okay you started mom talk right yeah like our group um yes does Whitney agree I don't know honestly but it's true like I started how did you start it I mean it's not really that deep like I just was started mom like content invited a couple moms over I was like let's make some Tik toks they ended up blowing up so we're like okay cool this is like something people like let's do it again and then more and more and more just kept coming and then she eventually made her way in the group Whitney yeah okay and I don't know if she liked us or not but she continued and it was more like business too though like we do this for a living so wh Whitney brought you back into the group mhm were were you like filming a pilot before you got arrested like I it was so like you guys were just kind of let just shoot something and see if we have anything yep it wasn't it wasn't a actual show at that point no nope they did a full episode I believe yeah okay maybe a full maybe not even but um yeah and then I think we were waiting on a green light so and then in the midst of that that's when the rest happened who invited you back on the show yeah producers like they I was like getting like you know phone calls management and um like well we might invite you like you know I think I was coming in as a friend character like like friend of show yes and so I'm like no no like I was like it I don't want to be in the middle of like not knowing and knowing cuz I was like my life's been on kind of hold for this like I think I might you know I had plans of doing other stuff and so I'm like I either want to know if I'm in this or not you know and so I think they like it took more time and they're like okay yes you're in we we'll cast did you feel like that was a decision that the producers had to make and then subsequently also the women like was there almost like did you have to get approval from the women as well cuz it it seems like like you're either in or you're out with the group almost in a way it was funny because I I didn't hear oh I heard I didn't know like that the girls were saying they're like wait Taylor's coming back on they like no not Taylor's coming back on so I don't know it was just like shocking that someone like a fans are I guess supportive of it but then I think a lot word too because they're like this is kind of like how it ties in all of us together you know so I don't know if it was up to them I think at the end of the day it was up to like the production but sure but I I mean I don't know so did you say yes to coming back before you knew how the women felt about you returning yeah and and then I found out and I was like yeah I'm so like I what is what it is yeah yeah pretty much he took it out of my mou I don't respect that but you know where do you draw the line um and I assume that you struggle with this because just to be on reality TV is to accept drama in your life yeah you are inviting it in your life in fact it's part of the job yeah as someone who is actively working on themselves going to therapy yes obviously you know still dealing with the arrest and the Fallout of that yeah how do you balance that what boundaries or things do you put in place to not only protect you but again your children knowing that you still have to at least present mhm or Embrace drama in your life while simultaneously trying to heal from the wounds of your past yeah I I feel like it was hard to do both but Dakota and I did set boundaries like hey for our relationship too and he was very clear to I think like you know production like Taylor is my main priority and like if anything gets in the way of that like I don't want to be doing this and so you know they agreed to like work with us on that I think we'll see how the show is I think so but we didn't know we had like there was you know with real like you said there's drama and and whatnot but I held off a lot I think till the end of the season and I kind of kept things like closed off and then I think we have a pretty big fight on a couch I don't know if that's in there there's a lot of talk of you fighting okay okay but we don't really you don't see the fight on the couch oh was good stuff for them but surprising it's hard to tell you guys are you talking about after Vegas you guys are fighting a lot I don't know before I with Macy there that one we saw Yes we saw yeah so that's when I I let loose and kind of like this is we don't no cameras are here like I get triggered he's like okay he's trying to Cal me down I was like nah this is what you did and I like go off and I'm like there's no control I'm like triggered I'm I'm angry and I feel like it's confusing why I'm hurting so bad anyways in the show like why is this why can't you give in all these questions and I feel like I just finally release it and it's kind of like okay this is why you're hurting so bad this is why you cannot move forward or you're scared right and so with letting that out yes I did lead out like let out some of his diry laundry but I'm like it also like I had to tell some of that story you know and it was hard and so yeah he was very St on boundaries and I need to remember that cuz I'm kind of a loose can and I'm I'm I'm unpredictable as well I feel like like I very like don't think you know before I speak is that something you're still working through I'm working on yeah I feel like with a lot of interviews I've been doing lately impressed I feel like I've really tried to think before I like spoke you know and had respect for you know him and I have to remember it's like his story too so I need to be respectable like him and his privacy so with the balance with kids I feel like I've just really been trying to be present when I'm with them full attention and with work full attention like trying to be when I'm there to give it my all you know was your ex-husband in any way considered for this show or and what conversations do you continue to have with him or what you had with him cuz he's he's he's noticeably not present he considered it I think him and his partner went uh fiance they they went back and forth and I think they decided it's best that they don't and um they're like can we keep the kids off so we didn't show my children you know their faces in the show and he's like I think they kind of want to see how it went you know what it's going to be and and what notot so yeah so it sounds like you're on relatively good terms with him at this point yeah we're great we go to soccer games every week together okay yeah and then we talk daily I mean you kind of have to do co-parenting but sure but I mean honestly you don't have to be friends and we are I kind of had the impression that that was still a toxic situation for I mean I had no really idea I just that was just honestly an assumption I made based off of what I'm watching so it is nice to hear that yeah we yeah it was yeah Dakota and then yeah ex-husband been great ever since we divorced is there a world where we might see him in the future is that something that they're I don't know that's I mean I think he'll play it by year and see the show and he'll just side and depending on how you guys think it looks that'll be his probably I don't know if he's interested in that um but we'll see Macy has a lot of opinions yes about Dakota yeah like where do you guys stand now because it it seems like she is not letting up you said earlier Dakota's completely come clean you're on the same page you're still trying to work through the lie but you you now know what the LIE is Macy keeps operating as if there's more a lie and she's playing um detective well yeah we did get the anonymous message saying that there was like another girl and of course in my head I'm like if there's one more I I'm 100% out and I've made that so clear so I'm like please come clean if there's anyone else at that time in the gray just tell me okay and um he said no like I've told you everything like I'm not worried that came from just like people trying to stir crap up and so I was like okay um and I make that pretty clear think you seen the show like if there was anything else that came out I would be absolutely gone like can I wouldn't think about it I'd be done as far as you stand now there's nothing else nope not that I know of um but I think with the show coming out it'll start things up Spen yeah and girls will come out just to be just to do it and so I I do have to take that in of like I would need like full on like proof and stuff like I mean I think girls are going to say things just to say have you spoken with Jenna no you have not no you know and she tried to re I think I had a problem with her cuz she was trying to reach out to him in October and like she was in Europe he was in Europe she was trying to like see him and I'm like yeah he's in a relationship sweetheart like no and you were full on pregnant then right yeah but no one knew at that point it was still hidden and then after the arrest again Jenna reaches out and says checking in with Dakota I'm like ah girl no leave him alone and so I think there's just the issue of like I just don't know why she has like I know she's like maybe being a good friend but like no I don't know I hate it cuz she's probably going to be sent this podcast if it's on and I'm like uh and I am in her she wants to be on the show we're in the circle with her so she's in my hometown like I will run into her in due time if she's not on the show if we have a second season I don't know so did they do more than kiss they hooked up I got into hooking up I don't they didn't do anything crazy it was like a high school thing but I did get I needed details so I ask every specific question it's like the timeline is off I mean what's I guess what's in question what is what is what is did he do more than kiss right cuz he told you he just kissed her and then it or was it after you or after you met her I what would have to come like what's your big like if this H if I find out this to be true we're done oh the anonymous message or something with Jenna because if any okay hypothetically well it seems like me it seems like Macy thinks there's something with Jenna I don't know if this is like a misdirect or whatever the show just making more drama or if there's actually something there it sounds like you don't even know yeah but what would be the thing if anything oh okay so I guess if there was a third girl hypothetically like the anonymous message says right cuz he told me about the first two right he got in trouble for the one he admitted and then Jenna he admitted so if there's a third one out there I'm saying then I would be gone I'm not a good lie detector so to speak I know people can be very convincing Liars but I believed Dakota yeah I believe him too that's why I'm with him like I but I mean there's a part of you that's like if anything comes out just know where I stand right yeah I believe him though absolutely I wouldn't be with him well where do you draw the line with your friends between like stay out of my business versus like them trying to be a friend or are they trying to be a friend or or are they really just caring about the drama and pretending to be your friend like how do you draw that line um I feel like I didn't draw any lines with that I was kind of like if Macy you're trying to be a protective friend like I I appreciate it and then but also at the same time like if you're trying to get information from Jenna I don't blame you like get it for me you know like so I there's a lot I'm like Dakota don't be scared then if you have nothing to worry about don't be worried about it you know in my head so I'm like Macy you do you Dakota you do you like yes I could tell her to be like don't do that stop but at the end of the day I mean I wouldn't care to know either you know so true I guess it just depends at this point it's been a while yeah and it seems like timelines are muddy and details are gray so I have no doubts when the show comes out it'll stir stuff up and things will come out yes are you in Dakota prepared for that I think I've just taken it for what it is like I just can fully expect that things are going to be thrown my way and people are going to be like this happened this happened I'm like I have to really did it you know you know I don't know and the spirit of just protecting your mental health and and obviously being involved in the show are are you two like doing any kind of like a Coupes therapy you are yes we are and it's some major like three-hour sessions like these people are amazing it's a husband and a wife that help us and it's really cool Dynamic actually they've been amazing and they like we had a fight like on the couch with them and they really helped us like come together in CI it was really cool I think it's one of those things you have to be willing to have the tough conversations with each other every couple has their issues right every couple has their moments and I think yeah it's just knowing that you continue to be transparent and have been transparent even during difficult times yeah I think the only time you bring in outside voices is when you're not sure if the conversations happening between the two of you are as authentic as you hoped they would be yeah you know and I think sometimes that can be process in relationships and I think that's part of the reason why I felt like I believed Dakota because I saw a guy who who again maybe he's just a really good liar but I saw a guy who seem exhausted trying to figure out how he can get you to believe him yeah where it's just like all I can tell you is what happened I have told you yes what I have told you is already hard enough to tell you mhm what more could I say you know I I I've related to that feeling yeah that being said doesn't mean he's couldn't be lying again I'm not a I'm not a lie detector but no and I think it's fear for me it's fear of like I guess I'm learning this in therapy but I'm I'm very still right now like I don't want to progress I don't want to move because I'm very safe here like in where my spot is Right M like if I Surrender fully then it's more like I could get hurt if I find anything else out if something happens you know I get really hurt but I'm learning is just more of like safety and I'm like just scared I guess a lot of the women talk about what mom talk means to them and it's some sort of like bigger thing yeah MomTok And Whitney what does it mean to you or is it just something you guys get get to do for job for fun or or is it or or do you want it to have a deeper meaning like you don't seem to be one of the women in this group that really is a part of the church or super religious where it almost seems like with some of the other women mom talk is a statement or it's some sort of way to express themselves to rebel against the church but is that what it is for you no I feel like for me it started all for fun and and I feel like for us moms like we all had something in common you're with kids all day so I feel like to go out and like have fun with your friends and make content and something you do it was fun and so I feel like that's why I started it and then it did become about more business because yes it was blowing up and and we do this for a job right we we do like obviously Tik Tok so it was like come in let's make content and then let's go home honestly like but I feel like during the filming and and even before like the French ships I the ones I had you know I lost so fast so it was like I'm I'm kind of terrified of friendships too like being super close with girls cuz like I just learn that it gets messy fast you know and so like I've been there with them and getting close with them but also very hesitant and like afraid of like I guess surrendering to friends as well like I think I'm just in a fearful spot to be honest which of the ladies are you closest with at this point I would say Macy I'm pretty close with but I feel like during filming I got really I love um I got really close with Jesse and Demi all of them really in different ways but I love Jesse she's a little go-getter and I feel like I relate with her a lot on things and she has her own story to tell and then we relate it a lot and then Dei also in a way I enjoyed them both I don't know how much they show of like the story lines and and theirs but H they have such good stories too but okay and then where do you guys stand with Whitney Whitney I love Whitney but you know she's a she changes her mind every day you know I think she really she either Regina George she seems like cuz she gives Regina George watching it does she just watching it yeah I mean again it's reality TV so who knows you you know her I we don't know we just watched her well I know she had some really not nice things to say about me and I don't know how much they go into that but I was shocked I was like I know idea you felt this so strongly about me like she seems like she [ __ ] hates you okay yeah so there was like this built up resentment and I'm like I didn't even know and then I apologized cuz I didn't know and and there might have been some selfish moments I did because when she was telling us her heavy stuff I was talking about mine and like I can relate I was not a good friend yeah I I I'll be honest I uh definitely sure you were self-centered you definitely stole the spotlight yes that's like sure but in that moment I thought I was a little taken back by Whitney here she is talking about this very difficult situation with her husband yeah and the response from the women more I guess than anything was like it seemed odd that she wanted to keep the spotlight on her Unfaithful husband but maybe not the spotlight maybe just her feelings you wanted to feel like no I get it no I understand but it just seemed like a weird I I almost would like if I had to come in and tell my friends about like something you know my family member did or I felt really hurt and I felt really embarrassed and wrong and then I tell them the story and they don't come across as that judgmental or critical and then you someone else is like Hey by I got some deal with [ __ ] to deal with I almost would feel glad that they're not like cuz a lot of those situations a lot of the women could have been like I mean [ __ ] the way they talk to [ __ ] Jen about what's his name Z Zack yeah it could have been that you know it was almost as if like Whitney wanted the she wanted the attention so bad it didn't even matter how she got the attention yeah I don't know if that was accurate or not it's like yeah you shouldn't have opened your mouth but I don't know I didn't feel like it seemed like a weird Hill for her to die on it wasn't my intention though to be like this is what happened I guess I was trying to relate of like we're all going through stuff yeah no I didn't follow you all that much I honestly was thought it was bizarre that Whitney yeah was so mad at you I mean I think it was built up resentment I was like it must be and then there was like a whole another day I think that's not even in the show of like oh she went hard on me and I was like whoa I mean when he's a little calculated and I don't I don't fault I I've been accused of being calculated I don't even think being a calculated person means you're a bad person that being said same I think that being said uh knowing that Whitney reached out to invite you in the group is there a world where you think Whitney invited you in to make sure that you were the villain maybe and I think she thought yeah I'd definitely be the villain I think it was like I don't think anyone had any speculation that Whitney was going to be the villain and I think Whitney thought I would be the villain and everyone else honestly I don't know it sure look like Whitney thought you're going to be the villain and plan on you being the villain yes yes I think that's what it was wanting her she was wanting it to look like and honestly I was at the point where I'm like I'm exhausted of being the villain like I don't I'm I'm sorry for whatever I did I'm sorry like that was my goal like I'm tired of hurting people if I hurt you valid let's fix it you know has she apologized to you for all of the nasty things she said about you um I don't know if she apologize for that but she was like let's I think how can we come together type thing CU it seems like you I mean you're like yeah you know Whitney this Whitney like you seem very positive about her and so to hear and to have watched all of the Things She Said and the way she acted towards you it just makes me feel protective over you of like I haven't even seen it don't let her you know like don't let her walk over you don't let her in like have that wall up with her because she does feel a little that's what everyone's telling me too well there's this weird thing people do right um you [ __ ] up we know this we've talked about this you did some bad things you're you're currently still paying the consequences you have a PO I I imagine that's difficult you will continue you to have to face criticisms and judgments from the crowd people are going to respond to this episode have thoughts and feelings about what you said I'm I'm sure some people will still criticize you yeah and there's always going to be it seems like people who still feel like despite you know you having paid consequences or whatever they it's like they decide for themselves if they think that you have answered whatever you know judgments they think you should answer for yeah and it it Whitney comes across and again I I don't know her as a person who who's decided if she thinks you are if you are contrite enough if you've paid the appropriate consequences if and it's like she it's almost she acts as if she gets to decide whether you've done enough yet and regardless of whatever the legal aspects that you're dealing with or all the other consequences that your actions have brought it seems like and you know Whitney's not the only one who's like this you know where they just decide that they should be the ones who feel like you should pay certain consequences or and they do that you know socially they you know socially ostracize you they'll talk [ __ ] behind your back they'll spread rumors you know etc etc yeah it is interesting to hear that Whitney actually was the one who brought you in and was willing to hear your other side of the story because the Whitney we got we get to watch in this upcoming season MH is quite the opposite yes that's why I think I was kind of shocked and taking back I was was like oh like I didn't know there were all these like built up feelings you know and and I had to tell her that like cuz she did tell me like you're like being forgiven for all these things you've done and and I was like you're seeing all maybe the good things but you don't remember like I'm the one in my DMs I'm reading all the negative comments like you must be looking on a different thing because I'm I see it every single day you know like it's crazy to think that you think that I have no haters out there like I have a ton it's insane actually but um yeah so I was like I fair that you feel that way but not the case like I mean you must be reading another article about me cuz I'm not reading that same one you know well part of it is just like it's there's a you know we all deal with it right like there's a self-centeredness in in social media no one sees your comments more than you yeah whether it's praise or criticism it's the loudest for whoever it is you know so for Whitney her criticism I'm sure feels really intense M and for demi for Michaela I'm sure for everyone feels like no one has it worse than them yeah and and until you actually just kind of look up and kind of maybe just put yourself in other people's shoes and you maybe can empathize a little bit but yeah it's it seems like Whitney is very she comes across as very aware of what's going on in Whitney's world yeah I don't know if that's accurate or fair but that's how it comes across no and I think other people see that even in our friend group they're like it's just like some something as simple as a dinner you know they're like let's invite like let's maybe not not invite Whitney I'm like no we're like Whitney's coming like we're inviting Whitney and then they're like just be careful like they're like I don't think you know how she like feels about you like I don't know I guess I'm unaware I haven't I don't know well maybe you don't care maybe you're still willing to be someone to her regardless of how she is to you yeah yeah and I mean I I don't know again I don't know what show it does in the show but I'm like very that's not my priority in life like I don't really care if you guys like me or don't like my relationship and my kids are right now the main thing I'm sorry I cannot give you a good friendship right now maybe when I'm things have calmed down but you don't and I think I literally tell her on the show and she's like I just feel like you don't try and I'm like I'm not going to like I'm not going to be the friend that you need from me I'll be here as like a cordial friend we do business together we're doing we're filming like I'm here but I I cannot try that like let's hang out or let's do this like try that extra effort because it's not there right now for me you know and I'm very clear to I feel like most of them about that how do you want people to see you I don't even How Do You Want People To See You know how I see me sometimes I feel like I still learning I still struggle a lot I feel like with mental health like I feel like very lost sometimes and I feel like Dakota's like I feel like you don't even know what you want you know like you're very lost like what do you want you know do you still question I mean you you it comes up a lot during the show but do you still question whether you're a good person or not um yeah I do I do and I fully don't think I'm like a very like I think I've done better in lessons I've been learned um but I feel like I have a long way to go and I feel like I could be better and I I'm I am not forgiven myself and I don't know how people actually do that for the things I've done you know are you speaking more specifically of with regards to all of it like I guess what I did to my best friend like no my like my my H like my husband I have a lot of guilt with that like how did I do that and I deserve what I got from Dakota and what how did I do that like that night with my kids there like there's just so much like I think the kids part I hear you on that U hanging on to that guilt the other stuff feels like a lot of people were involved a lot of people made a lot of decisions um I think there's a lot of blame to go around but at the end of the day I know what I did I think you could still hold yourself accountable for what you did and I think you are without taking other people's blame as well yeah or living in it you know I think like thinking about it living in it every single day is is not good for your kids I think moving on and closing that chapter and saying okay that was [ __ ] up I did a [ __ ] up thing but the person I am today yeah whole different person and that I think is what you focus on and you lean towards andh um for your kids I think no and I agree and that's why I'm like saying like I'm the pity party needs to stop like when I get in that space of like just stop crying about it Taylor like get up and just like try harder you know but I hate that you say that you think you're a bad person I don't don't think you're a bad person yeah I I think you've done I think you've made mistakes and you've done a couple of bad things but I don't think that makes you a bad person yeah yeah I don't know necessarily like I feel like I have most of the time 99% of the time good intentions with people you know like I feel like I never go for someone like for with bad intentions so in that sense like I feel like overall I'm a decent person you know like I mean well well and there's also just a lot of examples of reality TV stars who claim to do the work m we follow a lot of different reality TV shows yeah we follow a lot of different scandals is it crazy I've never seen really reality TV no it's not that crazy I'm new to it I had to binge makes sense no it's not that crazy but I you know we see I mean we talk about Raquel Rachel Vander pump there is a person who is talks about have gone to doing the work and therapy and mental health but everything she is doing online is is seems and still incredibly toxic destructive spiteful evil even and so listen I you know on this show we we recognize we all make mistakes some more than others uh some mistakes are very serious and they require legal consequences which you're dealing with but people can make changes people can improve people can do the work and I think that's what it comes down to it's like a lot of people say they're sorry a lot of people say they want to change very few people actually do yeah but it seems like you're actually doing it and trying and I won't say there's not other toxic aspects of my life like still like drama like with the girls and stuff like we all have drama to be the main things yeah yeah like no one's expecting you to not be dramatic at times but it's it's I thought where you were going with that is my petty little Tik Tok I recently did what did you do I just posted one that started up so much drama like resurfaced it was it was just like dumb but it was what was it it was more like about the girls like the way they said they didn't want to do the show cuz they were offered it and they said they chose their families on a podcast and so I was petty and then I told the truth and and I started that up but any regrets there no I good was that any of the girls that are on the show today no nope no but they went on someone went on a podcast and talked about it so you're still work in progress yeah and Dakota was like Taylor why he's like why did you do this and I was like he's like do you feel bad and I was like not at all it feels so good like it wasn't that deep it was more like silly it was more of silly yeah so let's close with you you in Dakota Final Thoughts Dakota do you how Assuming he's telling you the truth how do you get over it yeah I mean at this point it is a lot of self-work I already know that like it's it's past the it's past the Jenna it's past Dakota it's it's me it's like how am I going to get past this a feeling worthy you know it's all those feelings inside that keep me in this place and and honestly just taking a jump of like being full surrender and if you get hurt in the process that's just part of it you know I mean survived this much already yeah I'm like I've been through hard stuff like if anything happens it's that's where therapy work comes in is like no matter what happens on his end you're going to be okay and that is like where you need to get to a point like if it happens and he does awful things it's okay not that he will but if it happens everything's going to be okay you know and so that's where we're we're at and and I I love him so much and he's a great partner he's a good man and I do want to marry him that's the goal but I feel like I just need some self workor before you know how's the baby so good he's amazing he's here well not here here but the hotel he do he's doing well you're enjoying it yeah I'm not sleeping and and we're we're go go go we're surviving 5 months five months okay so we're close with Ry we are close with rivy are you sleeping good she does pretty good she um she wakes up maybe every now and then once around like 4: or 5 yeah so she's pretty good for the most part Nick will bring her into the bed and we all kind of half asleep half awake cuddle and so do what you do you know I bring him in the bed to him like I'm going to sleep a little bit here now you do what you have to do to survive yeah well Taylor we appreciate you coming thank you thank you for having me we yeah thanks for Outro coming and thanks for being so open I know this wasn't easy to talk to but um two years late but here we are here we are um we wish you the best and we wish you all the happiness uh in your life and and you and Dakota and your family and uh you know keep doing what you're doing it sounds like you're on a good path I hope so thank you you guys so much both of you thank you all right thank you take care thank you guys for listening don't forget to send those questions at ask Nick atth files.com for all things texting office hours we'll see you back tomorrow [Music] bye hey guys if you L what you listen to make sure you hit that subscribe button below thanks for listening we'll see you next time