THORSTEN FREI: "Totally unacceptable!" - criticism of the deportation policy of the gouvernment

Thorsten Frei, the Parliamentary Managing Director of the Union faction, is connected to me. Mr. Frei, I greet you. Good day, Ms. Droste. When you heard these statements from Brandenburg's Prime Minister Dietmar Woidke, who is now also questioning whether citizens' benefit should continue to be paid to Ukrainians, did you immediately consider sending him a CDU party proposal? No, but no one is immune from getting smarter. And what Dietmar Woidke mentioned is of course going in the right direction. We have to think about how we can find something suitable for civil war refugees beyond the citizen's allowance and beyond the benefits of the Asylum Seekers' Benefits Act. It is completely clear that civil war refugees, war refugees from Ukraine, should not be referred to an asylum procedure. Of course not, that would make no sense at all and would be bureaucracy par excellence. But it's also not right to give them the benefits of citizen's money from day one. Because we see that nowhere in Europe is the labor market integration of Ukrainians as low as in Germany. And that has to do with a lot of things, but also with the amount of citizens' money. Now that's an individual opinion within the SPD, at least that's what we have to say. How do you classify that? Is there something moving in the Chancellor's party or are these simply statements made by Dietmar Woidke as part of the Brandenburg election campaign? So why shouldn't anything move? I think the SPD is also a party that is actually in the middle of life. Prime Minister Woidke governs a country, talks a lot to the people and of course already realizes that things cannot continue as they are. What we have experienced in the past is that the Greens and the SPD in particular are far removed from the political reality of people in Germany . And that's why I certainly hope that there could be a process of change in the SPD. Any sensible person should basically see that things cannot stay the way they are and that it is therefore right to think about how to organize them better. We have made suggestions about this. Yes, but so far this is a relatively theoretical discussion, Mr. Frei, and that's exactly what I want to address. Because you in the Union have already checked a long time ago whether you could use different rates with the Ukrainians, for example. What might that look like in practice? Yes, I do believe that that is possible. We have the reduced benefits of the Asylum Seekers Benefits Act, which are around 20% below the citizen's benefit. There is also the question of which services are actually paid for in the area of ​​health insurance. Is this a service that every statutory health insurance patient receives? I don't think it has to be the case at all that someone who has never paid into a system receives the full benefits of statutory health insurance patients and much more. And what applies to the Asylum Seekers' Benefits Act for the first three years also applies, of course, to those who come to Germany as war refugees while receiving citizen's benefit. That's why I wouldn't worry about finding a similar, comparable solution for war refugees. I think this is constitutional. Mr. Frei, I would like to talk to you about another topic because we have new figures. Illegal migration increased again significantly last year , by 33%. We are generally aware of the problems surrounding deportations, and an instruction manual has now emerged for the federal police at Düsseldorf Airport, which shows that people who refuse to be deported should now be released immediately . What does that show in your eyes if such service instructions already exist? Well, I think that with such instructions the constitutional state is making a fool of itself. I believe this is completely unacceptable, and it basically shows the entire helplessness of the federal government when it comes to implementing the Chancellor's demands right now to be deported on a large scale. And that is a good example of the fact that the federal government would have to charter a lot more aircraft, i.e. not with scheduled flights, where exactly such behavior on the part of those being returned leads to the repatriation having to be canceled. In my opinion, charter planes that are only occupied by refugees who are to be repatriated must fly to the main countries of origin. Then you can also deal with those who act with such resistance and thereby provoke their stay . So, I think you can do something about it, and you should do it urgently. But I have to briefly interject that: I think that's why we're talking about an instruction manual from North Rhine-Westphalia, because it's not the federal government but the states that are responsible for implementation. Yes, you are absolutely right. But as a rule, the federal government also provides the relevant machines. I am of the opinion that it makes little sense to accommodate refugees on scheduled flights because the effort is far too great and such repatriations fail far too often. And the second point that just has to be addressed: repatriations are difficult, that's true. That's why we have to start a step earlier, and that's why we made the proposal to use the safe third country model to ensure that those who have no prospects of staying do not come to Germany in the first place. I think we have to achieve that. We have a lot of failed repatriations, that's true, but above all we have far too many people who come to Germany to apply for asylum here. These numbers have to go down dramatically, and you can only do that if you make sure that these people don't reach Germany in the first place. You are calling for a turnaround in this issue, Thorsten Frei. Thank you for the conversation. You're welcome, Ms. Droste.